I was more looking for advantages to use as opposed to the traditional magus builds. So far, the only real advantage I can see is shield bonii vs. armor (you can sleep in light armor, so it's more convenient) and that a normal Magus would have trouble finding a hand to carry a staff in. I'm trying to figure out if there's any tricks I can pull using this archetype in particular though.
So, I went with a Staff Magus for a game and am about to rapidly level from 3 to 6 thanks to a deck of many things. I chose this build knowing that it was not an ideal build (crit fisherman)... but someone pointed out that with wand mastery, you could effectively dual weild with a staff in your casting hand, so I'm wondering if there's a way to make it work. I realize this is a situational - when you have a magic staff (not yet) and are specifically casting from it while full attacking, or else not casting at all that round (so far, at the low levels that seems to happen a fair bit.)
So far, I think the major problems are flexibility (dropping / putting away your off hand weapon when you want to cast the old fashioned way) and of course the two-weapon fighting feats AND the additional penalty to two weapon fighting + spell casting.
I want to ask though, is there any way to use this to my advantage realistacly? I'd assume that even with the feat, a quarterstaff still isn't a light weapon.
So, I have a fetchling staff magus with meh stats. I'm hitting level 3, and it's beginning to seem like I need to min max a bit more if I'm going to survive. I'm thinking of taking Wand weilder and Familiar for my Arcana and feat at level 3 - Wand weilder so I can add some wands and cast magic more regularly, and Familiar because my perception is really low, and a boost while on watch at night might be for the best.
I'm doing this to try and optimise a bit better since so far I've had a hard time keeping up with the group and have nearly died already. Would anyone suggest anything more optimal? My thoughts are that Wand Weilder will be useful both now (start using wands to augment my low spells per day) and later, when I start using magic staffs after level 10. My plan is also to take Imp familiar later and get a Shikigami familiar since they seem like they'd be useful for the whole survival in the wild aspect of the adventure and covering the weaknesses of the Magus. Beyond that, I'm thinking 'craft magic staves' and otherwise all metamagic feats and arcana's going forward.
Any suggestions? Does this seem to be the most optimal build for what I've got so far? And yes, I've seen the guide. I'm looking for more specific advice, since min/maxing seems to be necessary.
I see nothing wrong with the other way around too. I'm playing a charactor who needs higher perception and possibly some survival skills if he's going to survive, so he recruits an animal and grants it some abilities to partner up with him. Later, I'll take the advanced feat and summon a more powerful 'pet' to replace my first familiar. It's not a lack of RP: in my mind it's kinda like recruiting an underling.
Now, it's up to the GM what happens fluff wise too. Perhaps my old familiar remains inteligent and heads off on his own, becoming a minor npc with his own goals and asperations. Perhaps he decides to hold a grudge and becomes an enemy spy, or remains on good terms and stays at my makeshift home, minding the place while I go adventuring - no longer a familiar, now just a particularly smart pet. Perhaps he returns to being an unremarkable creature.
Essentially, I see no reason every spellcaster has to have some deep, meaningful connection to their familiar plot wise. Cant some of us consider them a simple means to an end? Almost like apprentaces or hirelings: a short term partnership that ends when a better option is available.
OK, so I started a new campaign a few weeks ago and rolled up a Magus (with essentially a 20 point build, despite it being rolled stats)
I'm currently leveling to 3 and trying to chose an Arcana and Feat, so I thought I'd ask for some input on what others would do. I went with the Staff Magus archtype and have an int bonus of +2 so far.
Now, the thing is, I'm playing with a more challenging GM. I always seem to get ambushed in the middle of the night (no perception skill) so I'm actually considering taking the extra trait feat and taking something that makes perception a class skill, along with possibly survival since so far it's necassary to forage for food. I'm hoping my DM will allow that, especially since my backstory makes it somewhat appropriate.
As for Arcana's, considering my archtype, I thought I'd take Wand wielder so that I can cast from wands and staffs, since nothing seems especially useful yet. I'm hoping we'll find somewhere where I can buy wands and get a wand of shocking grasp for the foreseeable future. The shield Arcana would be a runner up, except my int bonus is currently only level 2, and the magus archtype grants me shield bonuses instead of heavy armor later anyways.
Runner up ideas for feats so far seem to be dodge (to help me survive) and weapon focus. All the Arcana's seem to suck imo, short of Arcane Accuracy. I don't have a big pool yet, and +2 int isn't much of a boost, but I could see it being useful in the right circumstances.
Any thoughts? Recommendations?
I think that's Raw vs. Rai nitpicking. I think most gm's treat spark like the free ranged lighter spell. Otherwise you get into the following argument:
"I light the curtains on fire!"
"The curtains are too big"
"Fine, I light /the edge/ of the curtain on fire"
- At most, I'd argue the fire from a spark spell takes an additional round.
That said, I'd probably your GMs call. I'd personally say yes though.
I don't think there are any people claiming that there aren't some pretty ugly rule contradictions that Paizo needs to sort out. Even Paizo reps have admitted this and promised response.
The issue is, what the heck is taking them so long?!? In any other company, fixing defects in your current product takes precedence over putting out new product (unless said new product fixes said defects)
I quite enjoy pathfinder, but I gotta agree with RD here. Not as a threat, but as a warning to Paizo: this is the way systems die. This is a good way to kill your company, and a rookie mistake. Make addressing problems in the ruleset the priority, not a priority, or you are leaving cracks in the foundation of your product. And remember: being overly specific with rules is what got 4E.
This is good advice. I've been playing a Str based staff magus at level 2 and I'm quickly learning I should give up on major damage dealing and focus on defense for a while. I'm slowly wisening up and figuring out that shield and possibly control spells should be my bread and butter until much later... although at level 2 shocking grasp still has the most damage potential in a round for any member of the party so far (even when several others are at level 4 already)
Live charactors deal the most damage. Remember that...
Haha, I've seen this before, but never to this extreme.
I consider myself an avid roleplayer. When I make a new charactor, I write up a detailed background (usually 3 to 5 pages describing who he/she is, what they look like, and their history/how they got that way.
But then I sit down at the game table and I give the short version. A one minute description explaining a characters appearance and mannerisms and maybe some of the details he'd easily have given out.
Later, I'll go on to act it all out. I wont tell anyone /why/ he was soo freaked out by seeing that weird symbol on the wall, or why he chose to sleep in a tavern rather than get free lodging at the rich family's home. Hopefully, if the GM is actually interested in RP, he'll give me a situation where it'll become appropriate to explore those reasons.
To me: this is how you RP in this type of game: Sit down in advance and figure out the who, what and why's... and then act them out and let people figure it all out from bits and pieces of the story, like a good auther would do when writing a book.
This is exactly what you don't do. Railroading into retirement because you can't think of how to respond is soo wrong. Your campaign took a grittier, seedier turn: have them forced to either embrace their mistakes, or repent from them. For now it looks like your PCs don't even fully realize they dun screwed up.
Again, my answer to this would have the consequences manifest and give them a choice in charactor: repent, or embrace their new, darker path. Call them all in to answer one at a time in charactor. Make them relive the event one at a time: the paladin must be held to atone for his cowardice - ask him why he didn't lay down his life to stop the vampire. Which does he value more, his life or his faith? Why did the cleric merely pray? Does he not know that the gods help those who help themselves? Why did the ronin run in fear? etc. etc. For the rest, give them the third degree: "You're the big damn heroes, ACT LIKE IT!" etc. etc.
I like calling in bigger forces like the gods so you can actually have them show the event and watch their actions - perhaps show them possibilities of how things could have gone differently. Point out that if the Cleric had stood up to fight, his god would have helped - but not so long as he lay sniveling on the ground. Point out that if they had left the villagers to live, they would have put themselves in a more dangerous position, but the villagers could have been saved once the vampire was eventually destroyed. Etc. and so on.
The nice bonus to this is: if the players enjoyed this session so much, reliving it from a new angle will probably be just as much fun.
Clearly, the party should be punished for their actions: especially the paladin. In this situation some devine intervention should be happening. But that doesn't have to be a bad thing. This could be a wicked oppertunity.
Personally, I'd walk the middle ground between the 'it was a dream' scenario and the worst case scenario of stripping the paladin and continuing down this path.
So my personal suggestion would be something along the lines of the next session opens with the entire party pulled into a quasi real dream with avatar of the Paladins diety manafests and strips him of his powers in a brutish and nightmarish way - making him relive his mistakes so he knows exactly why and makes it clear he has no intention of easily forgiving this one. And then he turns to the rest of the party and begins to prepare an even worse punishment for their actions - and Pharasma intercedes and defends the party. Give them a one shot quest at their current levels to redeem themselves - and if they succeed, return the Paladins powers to him.
Use this session to teach the party that they are the G** D*** heroes and they had better act like it, or the gods themselves will prepare their punishment themselves.
I think I'd rather see him as a god then a playable charactor... sort of seen as a bit of chaotic good god.
Chaotic good? Yes. He always seems to do the right thing, even when he realises that he has to let something bad happen in the short run to have an ultimately good effect.
I'd also make him be seen as sometimes a trickster, sometimes a fixer of problems. Tends to be worshipped by travelers and Gypsies, and outsiders - he (and any symbols relating to him) are considered bad luck by most populations. (Thus the lonely part, and seems to fit the bill)
His agents tend to seem weak and mundane, only showing their true power when absolutely necassary.
I have this problem too. I tend to favour the 'normal sounding short form' method as it seems like the most realistic method. It's also kind of hard to pin down names based on whats given in the books. I wish rather than suggesting 5-6 names for each sex, they'd give a brief description of what sounds are common for racial names. E.g. Elves favour Sy's, V's and L's, while dwarves favour sharper K's, B's and D's. Orc's favour short, one sylable names but otherwise are the same as dwarves. Gnomes like to rhyme their names, etc.
Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but has anyone found any good android apps to aid pathfinder games that they can recommend? I'm going at this from the point of view of a player. Personally I'd like a tablet version of Herolab, but I'd be happy with something that helped me track my charactor sheet and let me look up rules quickly I think :p
I'm also an aspiring developer, so if I can't find something, I may just build it instead. Feel free to suggest tools and features you'd like to see in such an app.
My advice - don't give or let someone who barely understands the rules a summoner. Building Eidlons is tricky enough even with someone who has expirience playing them. Unless you want to be looking over her character sheet every level and she is also comfortable with being looked over all the time (even then it's still probably best if you have Hero Lab to validate the Eildon).
I agree, but it's not my call. I've done all I can to recomend another class, but she's pretty insistent. I'll just have to help her build it and hope for the best. On the upside, I don't particularly mind helping, and I have herolab to help keep everything legal. I also think it'd be a good learning experience for her, and I want to make sure she actually has something interesting to roleplay - which is the reason for this thread :)
The other nice thing is yes, she wont play the class well enough to break it.
I kind of like the 'lost a bet' idea. Still thinking though.
I'm gearing up for a new game, and my friend who isn't exactly a pro is looking to play a summoner. She's not a complete newb, but in my opinion she's still lacking in the roleplaying area, and can be a bit of a misfit when it comes to remembering all the rules. She's only ever played rogues and Rangers, and our last game she did a whole lot of 'I steal the shiny thing because that's what rogues do.'
So, I'm kind of looking forward to giving her a charactor that should force her to play out a different, more complex personality. In the mean time though, I'm trying to come up with ideas for her to use as an eidelion. I'd rather convince her to go with a theme rather than just try to power game some sort of speghetti monster that doesn't make any sense.
So far, the only idea that has shown any promise is building essentially a Grim Reaper that follows her halfling summoner around, and play it out as a sort of 'I have no idea why he protects me, or seems to be at my beck and call, but I'll go with it' sort of theme, and let the GM figure out the rest. I'm looking for other interesting themes though... any ideas?
There aren't rules against it, but you're right. You don't walk around constantly with your weapon drawn in a fantasy world. Why? It screws up maintenance, but more importantly, it's effing exhausting! Ever swung a sword? or a full sized composite bow? The're heavy!
Want a simple answer? Running around with your weapons constantly drawn causes fatigue penalties. Each hour of walking with weapons drawn counts as hustling. Same with mounts: while trick riding might be possible, doing so for extended amounts of time is tiring to the animal. If that seems iffy to you, then make it tiring to the rider instead. Do you have any idea how tiring steering a horse with your legs would be after a few hours?
Modern day combat is not equivalent to swords and horses. Guns are theoreticly lighter and easier to use then a good old fashioned two-handed weapon.
Try not to be mean about it, but shut him down on this one imo: he's poking holes in the logic of a fantasy game: it's your job to justify the setting.
Well, firstly, it sounds like she's already borderline neutral, rather than evil. That said, if you want to give her potential, I'd suggest giving her a soft spot. Considering the backstory, I'd suggest she go looking for an orphan to take under her wing in her spare time. Have her start visiting orphanages in her spare time, looking for children who could learn magic. Even if she can't find a protege, she'll likely run into children in need and can spend her spare time helping them teach the horrible adults a lesson, or whatever other small help she can be.
Yeah. Depends on the monster. Is it a big dumb monster who wants to eat the PCs? Is it defending itself or its young? is it some sort of demon?
Also, it's worth noting that a round is six seconds - not a lot of time to stop and consider the consequences of carrying out the rest of his attacks.
I don't think the succubus was really a Dues Ex Machina. That usually refers to a 3rd party intervening and completing the story for the heroes. If anything, the Succubus story is probably a 'kudos' moment for Naztek - He actually made a meatgrinder experience into an interesting plot point, and I'd personally encourage using defeats not as a 'game over' moment and more as encouragement to succeed in the future.
D.E.M. moments are more like when the party is about to be defeated, and then someone shows up to make it a victory, and I'd highly suggest never doing that.
Either way, the secret to all of this is the same as when cooking goes bad: never admit you screwed up. Burn the muffins? Tell 'em they're chocolate cookies. Party loses a fight to a pack of kobolds? You were looking for a reason to run an 'escape from kobold slave market' module anyways. lol.
I see two ways I would try to handle this.
1) Put your main game aside for a session or two and play some one shots where TPKs are going to happen if players try to meat grinder everything. Make a point in a one shot where it wont hurt your main game.
2) Bring in an NPC who ROFLstomps the party with non lethal. Have him teach them a lesson.
Alternatively, sounds like you need to take back your game. Discuss this with your group that you don't want to play a complicated version of descent - if they try to meet every challenge with force, they will fail their quest - and not necessarily because they get TPKed.
Also, maybe it's time to show them some of the other ways they can fail without TPKing the party.
Yeah, Moms can work for certain builds, but by itself (without specifically building around it) the loss of flurry hurts for the monk class.
My dragon Disciple was going for a four level dip into MoMS to take dragon style and one other, the idea that full round attacks would be using natural attacks anyways so the loss of flurry would pretty much be wasted anyways. Situations like that is where MoMS shines.
Eldritch Heritage could work, if I can get decent Charisma. I might have to work something out with my GM to transform a quarterstaff into a magic stave at level 11 or so since I'd be transforming one type of bonus into another... Which at that point I might as well just become a crafter and use the feats to benefit the group and potentially turn a profit.
I guess I need to touch up on my item creation feat knowledge. Can I use scrolls and such to craft staves without knowing all the spells on the list? Hrmm...
Well, the downside of that is you can only use one spell using spell combat - which effectively gets you a second attack, but that's it. With TWF, you could theoretically get a third, but it's not worth it unless you have some pretty crazy stats to support the MAD build.
I think touch of fatigue would be my goto to be honest, but I cant see using an Arcana to get some wizard cantrips being worth it.
Admixture wizard seems like a thought, but I don't see it being worth an extra level of waiting on spells. I'm drooling at the thought of the bonded staff ... are there no other ways to gain a bonded object that a magus could use?
Hmm, there's a couple there that'd be pretty nice actually. And I don't necessarily have to get every TWF feat (considering 3/4 BaB progression...) Enruned great weapon, and TWF would basicly make me effective enough to get by for a while.
It's a tough choice though, as two weapon fighting would still effectively require a high dex, strength and Int, and I'd take a -4 to even my primary attacks when I use spell combat (-2 when I don't.) It might be more beneficial just to go the straight strength > Int > Dex build unless I get really lucky rolling stats.
I've seen the guide. Build wise I'm looking for more advice on the particular archtype. How best to build around using a quarterstaff as a weapon? Should I go TWF? Disregard the weapon and aim for a strength build?
As for charactor ideas, I'm trying to flesh out a personality too. I'm thinking maybe a fetchling - I like the idea of a wise man of the wilderness - perhaps a hermit who's joined up with some adventurers for some reason, or a traveling salesman... I like the mystery but want to avoid becoming the anti-social guy of the group. Hrrm.
OK, so I'm trying to come up with a potential new charactor for my next game. I'm leaning toward a staff magus - I've never used staves before and would kind of like to try, and playing a new class will be a nice change of pace.
So, I need two things: suggestions for personalities, and suggestions for how to build him combat wise. I kind of like the idea of a warrior who actually has a collection of magical staves strapped to his back at all times, but unless our group has no dedicated wizard, I don't see this being feasible. If it is, I was entertaining the idea of either taking a cohort to craft staves for me later, or become a traveling crafter.
I'm guessing all races are options at this point, so long as I avoid major min/maxing and anything that's obviously broken.
This thread makes me giggle.
This simple answer is yes. Anything living can have an unarmed strike as per raw I believe, even constructs and slugs. A snake could whip you with its tail, jump on you, etc. AS a GM I'd still require you to be able to describe some ways that the creature in question could realistically attack you with just it's natural body.
The more complicated answer is how would you animate a cannonball? It has no arms or legs, no mouth and essentially no way to interact with the outside world. Congrats: it's sentient but unable to manipulate the world around it (and yes, in this case I'd personally rule that it has no unarmed strike. Or a landspeed for that matter.)
*looks up line of effect rules*
Ah, see what you mean. Even so, I'd personally rule that having line of effect when you start casting a spell is enough, mostly to avoid making EMF too powerful. It's not meant to become a wizard duel 'gotcha' spell, just an emergency tool in the case of falling debris or possibly surprise ranged threats. Trying to go all counter spell is clearly not its intention.
That said, even if you rule that it does work that way, I see no reason why line of effect couldn't target the edge of the sphere rather than its initial point. I'd say it gets shunted.
wow, reminds me of playing Magic: the gathering.
What makes RP sense? I see nothing in the create pit description that says EFS would stop them from targeting that area. In my mind, you'd just end up with a pit with a dome over top of it. You'd lose the 'watertight seal' due to the land no longer being reasonably smooth, but otherwise EFS is not a viable defence against create pit.
Yeah. Wisdom is kind of vague to understand. This is why I like people trying to figure out how to RP charactors with certain dumped stats: gives me a chance to try and figure out how certain stats actually work.
Basicly, think of Wisdom and Intelligence as going hand in hand. Intelligence is your book smarts: knowing why fire is hot, or how to do advanced math problems. Wisdom is your street smarts. It's how to get things done. Wise people think outside the box: they might not now exactly how many apples they have, but that doesn't matter because they know they have enough to feed their family for a week.
An intelligent person knows how to pick a lock. A wise person knows that it's easier to go around the side and find an unlocked door.
An intelligent person knows that he can feel if a fire is hot with his hand. A wise person knows it's a batter idea to check carefully, in case something is really hot.
erm... I like the lie to me reference.
I know many people who I would say have low charisma in real life, and many who have high charisma. Charismatic people aren't necessarily attractive, or well dressed. They just have forceful personalities and a lot of self esteem.
If you play D&D, you likely know at least one person who is a mild example of this: smart (int), savvy (wis) but uncharismatic. Maybe they don't have any tact, or any self esteem, or are incredibly selfish and push people too far. Just take this to the extreem
Normally, the rule seems to be that delivering the touch must be deliberate and expected. You actually will the spell through your fingers (or claw, or leg, or whatever) into the target. It requires a little more that just making physical contact, or the rules would have a subset setup for what happens when you miss, but then the enemy hits /you/.
That said, I think grapple would be a special case. I'd personally rule that if you are in a grapple and holding a charge, touch attacks are auto successes even if you aren't in control of the grapple.
This is my problem too. I want to be able to print stuff off (I have the idea of having a computer on the gaming table) and possibly put it in a book. I'm actually thinking of building a web application that'll help me write campaigns and navigate via a virtual map for generating adventures, then have it print off a pdf to put in a binder.
My personal preference would be to have a huge binder, and organize everything using encyclopedia like tabs - e.g. one tab for each important NPC, one for each section of dungeon, or city, or etc. This way I can keep everything for future reference.
In the future, I might divide all the info into 2-3 binders. Maybe one for NPCs, One for dungeons and one for the persistent world
So, obviously, people have very skewed views on the monk class. I've seen more than one GM try to avoid or ban them because they don't fit the preferred swords and sorcery theme, and more than one player RP them as a looney old man that sputters off goofy sayings and punches things.
Suffice it to say, not particularly fond of this line of thinking.
I'm currently playing a monk/sorc/dragon disciple who will become a natural weapon fighter as soon as his claws start outdoing his unarmed strike. I like to play it as a martial artist of sorts who focuses on discipline and control (RP wise) - I generally picture someone dressed in adventurers robes who is more of a brawler then a swordsmen, rather than a bald headed weirdo who fights while imitating monkey noises.
So, the question is, how do you RP your monk? Any existing fictional characters you tend to get inspiration from?
I think the point is this system doesn't get rid of magic items, so much as it makes other properties more important. You don't buy a +1 shovel: you buy a flaming shovel for an equivalent price. If anything, it puts more focus on the remaining magical qualities and makes magic items all the more interesting and unique.
Hard to tell if this has already been said, but there should be an equivalent choice to split up ability score boosts. Generally, you can get a little more bang for your buck boosting 2-3 ability scores a little then boosting 1 a lot, and this should be reflected in an option. Would help out the MAD classes a bit.
E.g. you could focus all of your ability score boosts into strength, or dilute them into strength and dexterity and get the same overall cost efficiency as if you weren't using the system
I don't think most GMs would have a problem with subbing in other dragon types as long as they're balanced against a dragon on that list. It's largely flavour and fluff at that point.
As a note: I'm already level 5 at this point, so changing the chasis isn't really possible at this point. I'm trying to take best advantage of the chasis I have.
Specifically, the story behind the charactor is a half elf who began his career as a sorcerer, but found himself shunned when friends and family realized his poweres were fueled by an evil green dragon bloodline. He then went to work taming his temper by training as a monk for a few levels. About now he's moving towards embracing the powers and controlling them, leaving me with a dragon disciple who hopefully uses his monk levels to enhance his natural weapon fighting.
Personally? I don't like the idea of a Wow style healer. I prefer the meme of cleric who stands in the back but can unleash all hell if pushed to it.
Personally, I'd build her a buff build oracle, and give her a few major healing spells for when it's necassary. The type of charactor that helps out, but can roll up her sleves and be a major 'oh sh@#' button if pushed.
Well, accuracy issues aren't so bad when you consider natural attacks. Basicly, I'll get all my attacks at my highest bonus. Going unarmed strike however will really screw this over, as I'll be back to only one attack at full BaB. The strength bonuses help make up for 3/4 BaB from DD (not completely, but enough) plus having really high strength to start with should put me in the right ballpark.
As for natural attacks not lasting very long, there are ways around this. In my case, I'm opting for using a casting of permanency. The downside is it can be dispelled if my GM really wants to screw me, but I don't think he would.
Feral combat training doesn't apply to everything, but I really don't need it to. Being able to use my claws for my unarmed strike abilities without disrupting my typical abilities is enough.
So, I want to post this up because it seems like an incredibly fun, powerful, and somewhat original build for a Dragon disciple. I'd like people to look through and make sure it works the way I think it does.
Straight out, I want to point out that my ability scores are through the roof and this build wont really be feasible for everyone. Literally, I start play with 14-18 in every slot except cha, so I got very lucky.
First, the basics. Classes:
Level 1: Sorcerer (Dual blooded Draconic and wildblooded Empyreal)
Feats (The important part!)
Level 1: Combat reflexes
Any thoughts? By the end of this I'll have something like 26 strength, 20 wisdom, 16 int and 16 dex, not including any gear. For single opponents I'll just full attack with my 3 attacks, or use breath weapon, or even toss out some spells. For swarms of enemies, I can run past them and counter all of their attacks, or use combat patrol when they try to pile on me to constantly reposition to avoid being flanked. And all of this will only get more powerful when I assume dragon form. I can use touch spells like shocking grasp beforehand to probably OHKO the lead charger
I almost want to delete this thread, after looking over both.
Kydeem is correct: size limitation isn't as big a deal for me considering I will be able to transform into a large dragon. That said, I've ultimately come to the conclusion that both suck and are feat hogs considering I won't be able to get them until later levels. Besides, dragon transformations are limited and I should take something that's useful with and without it.
I'm going to post a new thread shortly with my chosen build so people can rule check it for me, and point out anything I'm forgetting.