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Aelryinth wrote:
I've never lost a treasure goblin since trying out the monk's teleporting electric fist thingy, it's virtually impossible for them to get away without immediately being nailed another dozen times. >:) Sissyl wrote: The genetic code does not and can not contain every bit of information needed to build every little complexity of the human body. 30000 genes is not nearly enough. Everything else, then, is random chance. For proof, check out the fur colour patterns of clones cats. Not exactly random chance there, but other biological and exogenous factors at play in gene expression. Every gene once transcribed into an RNA sequence can then produce many multiple versions of an end-product protein - something called alternative splicing, which depends on many things also going on in the cell at the time, or extraneous factors. For instance, IIRC the genes responsible for color coding of the "points" in seal point siamese cats are temperature dependent, so even in a case of two clones with identical DNA (ignoring things like the random shuffling of the MHC here for purposes of "identical"), they aren't going to look alike. Things can turn genes on and off, and other factors can influence how a given gene is expressed. But for the purposes of the current discussion, most of the brain architecture involved in sexual orientation and gender identity appears to be fixed during gestation, rather than changing after birth as a result of social or other factors. At least that's where the current research points. Andrew Tuttle wrote:
It's not really an opinion so much as it's a statement of where the scientific literature is at, and it's virtually onesided at this point that sexual orientation is biological in nature (what amount is genetic influenced versus in-utero developmental by exogenous factors is what's in flux at the moment). I'm not involved in active research in this specific area, but I'm a scientist (cell biologist working in hepatic toxicology and associated areas) and based on my observation of the current research in the area, there's really no evidence that it's based on upbringing or social factors. Obviously if really good research points otherwise, I'm open to it, but there's rather a mountain of evidence to climb to get there. Also, pubmed is available to anyone as a searchable clearinghouse, but largely restricted to abstracts for many journals that then require subscriptions or pay per article to access the full material (except for certain journals like PNAS which usually contain links to full articles). In summary again, sexual orientation appears to be largely correlated to brain structures that are formed in-utero and don't based on current understanding of the process appear to develop after that point - ie the basic neural architecture is set early in development, influenced by hormone levels (which can influence gene expression), and potentially other in-utero factors (notions of a mother to fetus immune role in birth order studies of males and the increased rate of non-hetero orientation there, but that's still in need of study). Social factors play pretty much zero influence here, though they can make someone suppress an orientation to whatever is socially expected, but upbringing doesn't alter brain structure. It's some combination of genetics and (probably more-so) the effect of hormone flux on the developing brain in-utero. There are observable brain differences between hetero and homosexual members of a given sex, with bisexuals on a spectrum between both ends. Interestingly enough, similar masculinization/feminization of specific portions of the brain seem to be responsible for gendor dysphoria, albeit the development of that portion of the brain occurs at an earlier stage of gestation. That's my professional opinion on the topic, based on the bulk of literature that's out there on pubmed. As requested: Aesdurath the Puppet King
Aesdurath was born from the bizarre conjunction of a lich whose soul fused with its erodaemon consort upon his corporeal destruction. Now appearing as a gaunt, genderless erodaemon spontaneously manifesting bleeding bite marks upon its body, its conjoined souls feed upon one another. Aesdurath isn’t a true daemon, at least as far as most of the daemonic nobility is concerned. Yet Charon accepts Aesdurath’s loyalty and the Four take no official stance, leaving many to suspect they use him as a goading tool to throw against their other vassals. Baroth wrote: Thanks for your answer. Thus, I am awaiting the ramblings of Todd. I should be working for University anyway. If he talks (and believe me he will talk), I will use his design as an inspiration for my creation unless he nails the design perfectly. When I get home, sure. It's a little under a paragraph long, and just to repeat James and myself again, it's not canon unless it's in print, and I don't want to make a habit of this since stuff has a tendency to be recycled/expanded/altered later on if it's not used in an earlier project. :) Quote: Still, I was kind of surprised that there is not at least one high level Daemon that is capable to be a match for a Balor or a Pit Fiend in terms of intelligence. Does there need to be one for reasons other than the symmetry assumptions of the Balor/Pit Fiend/Ultroloth dynamic from 1e/2e/3e? The daemons don't operate (at all) by the same social hierarchy as the 2e/3e yugoloths did, and their outlook is rather distinctly different, plus they don't have any similar Blood War'esque mercenary roll as a race that the 'loths did. There doesn't IMO really need to be that sort of symmetry when the daemons have a much more elaborate caste of Harbingers as a caste below the Four, versus nothing really comparable among the 1e/2e/3e yugoloths who had the ultroloths and really only a sparse handful of unique members. You're certainly able to bump the intelligence of one of the daemon types though if you think they need it. Quote: I have to ask: Why are you still awake? Because here in Berne, it is 9 o'clock in the morning and I doubt you live by our time zone. :-) Because I work at night, thus I'm awake and probably will be till 8am (or longer if I play Diablo III when I get home...) Aesdurath was one of several that got cut for space. I could tell you what details I had in mind for him beyond the listing in the back of the book, but largely I've held off on releasing that sort of detail precisely because A) it might appear in a later book and B) if it's detailed by someone else who has other ideas to explore versus the original unpublished ones, I'd prefer not to have conflicting information out there. What's in print is what's canon after all, not whatever else might be drifting around on my desktop. :) Of course, James et al are always free to let me blab about the basics of Aesdurath if they wanted. ;) In no particular order: Black truffles with pretty much anything else
James Sutter wrote: We'll definitely be doing more to flesh out good outsiders and the good-aligned planes in the future, but exactly what form that will take is still nebulous. In my opinion, doing good outsiders well is significantly harder than doing fiends well (which, for the record, isn't easy). So we're going to take our time and make sure that when we do it, we do it right! I like the sound of that. :) As James said, the progression/promotion schemes from 2e/3e aren't necessarily true in PF. That said, I think some sort of progression from lower to higher forms has been mentioned for archons, devils, demons, proteans (sort of), and daemons (astradaemons as a punishment caste, and some examples of promotion such as Trelmarixian's experience). However they haven't been mapped out extensively like in 2e, and it's probably best to keep it tied into what makes the most sense and impact for plot purposes. This is one of those situations that I typically houserule to fit the situation. Outsiders are physically composed of the stuff of their representative alignment, represented by the [alignment] subtype they have, so if they actually manage to change their alignment (a rare as all heck situation), I generally assume that something physically changes as well, usually represented by them swapping out alignment subtypes. Aberzombie wrote:
It's relatively rare that we buy commercial meat anymore (except for seafood for me on Wed and Fri), because we have 5 freezers and we get cows, pigs, goats, chickens, deer, ducks, etc and make it ourselves. You would be surprised at how cheap it is if you're willing to euth and disembowel things from time to time. This is what happens when you have two biologists with a serious foodie hobby. :) James Jacobs wrote:
*ponder* ... I'm totally cool with this! :D Erik Mona wrote:
So is there a distinction between those native to Axis versus those on the material plane? Cosmological implications, and because I obsess over nitpicky planar details. ;) Lev wrote:
Lev, When I worked on The Great Beyond, one of the design goals was to have something in which you could play a classical Planescape campaign in Pathfinder, without infringing upon the WotC IP rights that they hold over that setting. It's inspired by Planescape's sensibilities and derives heavy inspiration from it, but it strikes out on its own and I really want it to be its own thing, enjoyed on its own merits and not seen as a second rate Planescape. :) Quote:
If I was merging concepts from the two cosmologies, without needing to worry about IP rights and such, I'd include Sigil but I wouldn't pin down where exactly it was in the cosmology. It exists, it connects to everywhere by its portals, but nobody seems to know exactly -where- the City of Doors exists within the cosmology. It's probably best to say that it exists outside of the standard framework, but yet if you stand atop Pharasma's Spire, at certain times the shadow of the city's torus falls across the landscape, luminous when it interacts with Greotus's shadow. I'd include the Rilmani as a native race to the lands surrounding the Boneyard, with hints that they have hidden cities dwelling out there (similar to the 'they're everywhere but nowhere, like the concept of the Breach in China Mieville's 'The City and the City'). Or you could place their cities within cavernous niches within the sheer walls of the Spire itself (which already had hints of previous occupation, perhaps predating Pharasma herself, with empty niches carved into the stone up and down its height). You could include the gatetowns either as towns on the edges of the top of the Spire, or districts in Axis itself, or towns drifting within the Maelstrom borderlands in loose constellation to Axis. Quote: And I want githzeraĂŻ cities (like Shra'kt'lor) and the spawn stone, with slaadi in my MAELSTROM. For me, slaadi lords used the stone to turn chaotic proteans in something more controlled. I'd plunk them down right into the Maelstrom, possibly with a conflict between the Slaadi and the Proteans over the proper role of Chaos - an ideological schism at a deep level, with them tearing down each others creations, but probably not erupting into bloodshed like the proteans and demons. Quote: Lots of Planescape's planes disappear in the Great Beyond, like all with a mixed-alignment (Arcadia, Bytopia, Beastlands, Ysgard, Pandemonium, Carceri, Gehenna, Acheron, Outlands). But are they importants ? You could incorporate a lot of the features of those planes in their analogs in the Great Beyond. It's up to you if you want to bring over them to the Great Beyond plane, or those planes to the Planescape plates. Alternatively, have them as different planes altogether, each drifting as islands within the Maelstrom. Breaking the symmetry here wouldn't necessarily be a sin, if incorporating them is important. Quote:
I love the 'loths. :D They would so totally not get along well if they lived on Abaddon with the daemons, so best to give them their own plane. They'd of course try to manipulate the daemons who in turn would try to eat them. :) How about placing Gehenna as something like a moon, drifting in loose orbit as a plane between Hell and Axis, with portals found if you travel deep below Axis and then literally fall out of the sky towards on the Furnaces, or likewise in certain parts of Hell stepping into bottomless pits (like portals in Gehenna in 2e). Quote: - PANDEMONIUM : He is a plane of insanity. Ok, chaos, a bit evil and insanity... The Abyss fill most of the role I think, except for one important planescape feature that I want to keep : the Bleak Cabal (and its Madhouse). Can we imagine the PANDEMONIUM not like a plane, but as a one of the big Abyssal chasm, a border between the maelström and the entrance of the Abyss. A plane owned by the Abyss but nor really tainted by evil (but really tainted by chaos) ? Beautiful idea there, perhaps as the result of a protean chorus creating a beachhead into the Abyss, and something went terribly wrong, driving the chaos serpents insane, twisting them into now natives of Pandemonium (think linnorn versions of 3.x Howling Dragons). The wind is omnipresent, but the howling is both the wind and the screaming of the natives echoing -everywhere-. Quote: - YSGARD : I want to add it to the Great Beyond. I want to keep olympian, norse and egyptian pantheon alongside with golarion's one. And I want an Yggdrasil ! I'd include them as different regions in Elysium (the great beyond one), especially since I wasn't able to give as much detail to that plane as I would have liked. Quote: - CARCERI (= TARTARUS) : I like the idea of a jail plane. I want to have a place with evil titans and gehreleths/demondands that is not the open Abyss. For me, Rovagug's dead vault is even a part of CARCERI.Is it ok ? Sounds good to me. I'd include the Prison of the Laughing Fiend as linked to it as well. (Tegresin the Laughing Fiend is pretty much a wink wink imprisoned 'loth in terms of attitude and desires). Quote: - BEASTLANDS : A plane with petitioner with animals form, planes of nature, away from everything. I am hesitating to keep it. Does Gozreh can lived there ? If I do, it will be a neutral plane, and not a good and chaotic one as in the 2nde edition. I'd include it as a part or layer of either Nirvana or Elysium (great beyond planes). Quote: Furthermore, I want to add Regulus, the modrons' realm, under Axis. In this case, is it better to keep Axis near the spire or to make a whole plane with Axis+Regulus far from it? I'd include Regulus as an outgrowth of Axis, rising up as a gigantic clockwork apparatus rising up from the Crucible where the Axiomites build their armies of Inevitables. Regulus and the modrons could be axiomites merged into the corporeal forms of inevitables perhaps. Quote: Last question, I want to add MOUNT OLYMPUS, with the greek pantheon. But... where ? In the mountains of Arborea/Elysium (like in Planescape)or do I create an OLYMPUS PLANE ? Either one could work. :) The vulnadaemon I wrote for BotD III was done independently of the Bestiary 3 version. I didn't have anything from it, and I suspect it didn't have access to my version, and they were being done around the same time as each other. I also suspect the art order for the vulnadaemon was done first, and it's liable to take priority unless they redo it for a later product. But I'm the lowly freelancer, I don't make the editorial decision here for which one is the 'real' vulnadaemon. ;) Perhaps make one a subtype of the other vulnadaemon? It's not exclusively G against E. You've got the Law/Chaos axis in the mix as well, which can make some iiiinteresting bedfellows and temporary allies at times. You've also got the proteans arguably on the side of good more often than not (unintentional allies to the upper planes in some ways) since they're got a truly brutal conflict going on versus the Abyss, as well as LG/LN/LE, and less so everything else. Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Discord gets to be an honorary member of the Chorus of Malignant Symmetry (Because the Chorus of Razored Discord would be too obvious). :) *very much a bronie* I just totally want a book on good outsiders* at some point. There really hasn't been one since super late 2e, and that one wasn't the absolute best as far as design focus went. I want a giant book of good outsiders, their interactions with each other, with fiends, other races, mortals, and how mortals interact with them. And handled in a way to make the upper planes not be totally boring. And enough crunch to make it worth $ for folks not wanting 500 pages of straight up fluffy awesomeness. *which is bringing a scowl from the daemon on my shoulder, who in turn is getting sucker punched by a protean doc the grey wrote:
I'd love to do more with them, a lot more. But obviously if there was more in the future that I knew of, I wouldn't be able to tell you one way or the other. :) First one either an aasimar or a half-elf (depending on if the outsider blood makes itself manifest, and in this case we don't know what mortal descent the aasimar is, which doesn't have to be human, so we'll assume it's a non-factor). Second one, either a tiefling or an aasimar (other options depend on what mortal heritage the parents are, if that's known, but generally I assume in this case that the outsider blood swamps the mortal fraction).
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