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Pathfinder Society Member. 93 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Dark Archive

Alright, this is my first pathfinder homebrew. Please critique honestly, but gently? :P

My basic idea was to create a Fighter Archetype that could use improvised weapons well, without loosing out on what is arguably the Fighter's BEST class feature, Weapon Training.

Improvised Weapon Fighter

Spoiler:

Weapon Proficiency
IWF is proficient with only Simple Weapons.
This Modifies Weapon Proficiency.

Improvised Weapons
IWF gains Catch Off-Guard and Throw Anything as bonus feats at 1st level.
This replaces the Fighter Bonus Feat at 1st level.

Absurd Training Regimen
IWF may treat specific non-weapon objects that are usable as improvised weapons as if they are weapons that they are proficient with, for the purposes of class features and feats that apply to a specific type of selected weapon (e.g. Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec, Improved Crit, etc).

Shovel, Guitar, Chair, or Severed Limb are examples of the correct level of specificity. Farm Tool or String Insturment is to vague. Orc Arm or Wing-back Chair is overly specific.

When the first feat for a given item is taken (generally Weapon Focus) it should specify the Improvised Weapon's class (light, 1 hand, 2 hand) and Damage type (P/S/B) in the following manner: Weapon Focus (Shovel – 2h Bashing) or Weapon Focus (Broken Bottle – Light Piercing)

As a specific exception to the normal threat stacking rules (i.e. they don't) if you take Improved Crit with an improvised weapon and Improvised Weapon Mastery, your crit threat range becomes 18-20/x2
This replaces Bravery

Weapon Training
IWF may select Light Improvised Weapons, One Handed Improvised Weapons, and Two Handed Improvised Weapons as Weapon Groups for Weapon Training, and for the purposes of any feats that refer to Weapon Groups or Fighter Weapon Groups. They are not limited to these groups, and may still take normal weapon groups.
This modifies Weapon Training

Weapon Mastery
IWF must choose an Improvised Weapon they have Weapon Focus with for this feature.
This modifies Weapon Mastery

Additionally a related 'Advanced Weapon Training' option, that isn't tied to the archetype, but is thematically linked.

Advanced Weapon Training:

Advanced Weapon Training: Trained Improvisation: (This may be taken for any weapon group except the Improvised Weapon Groups)When you use a normal manufactured weapon from the selected weapon group as an improvised weapon (for example, using the butt of your long spear to hit an adjacent enemy, or clubbing an enemy with your crossbow) you still gain the benefits of Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization if you have them with the weapon.
Additionally, if the weapon is magical and has a +1 or better enhancement, it counts as a +1 magic weapon even when used in an improvised manner.
Normal (Per Core Rulebook FAQ): A normal weapon used as an improvised weapon (such as using a Long Spear's butt end as a club) does not benefit from any weapon specific feats (such as Weapon Focus (Long Spear)) and does not benefit from any magical enhancements.

Any thoughts?

Dark Archive

Sol Bianca from Sol Bianca
Sword-Breaker (AKA Canal Volfeld) from Lost Universe
The Voidhawks from The Nights Dawn trilogy by Peter F Hamilton

Anything that falls into the category of "Remnant from an extinct or ascended race that still far surpasses our current tech level"

Any self aware Biotech ships.

Dark Archive

So, random idea I started working on last night, looking for any suggestions to improve it.

Half-Orc Warpriest (w/ 1lvl dip into Brawler)

Alternate Racial Trait: Toothy (1d4 Bite)
Half-orc -> use Human Favored Class bonus -> Extra bonus feat every 6 levels

Lvl 1: Brawler - Improved unarmed attacks, Power Attack
Lvl 2: Warpriest (remaining levels all Warpriest) Free Weapon Focus (Bite)
Choose a Deity that offers Animal Blessing. This gets us 2 1d6 claw attacks for 3+wis mod minutes per day.
Lvl 3: Combat Expertiese
Lvl 4: WP Bonus Feat - Martial Versatility (Weapon Focus (Natural))
Now my Bite, Claws, and Unarmed Attacks all use my Sacred Weapon damage, and have Weapon Focus
Lvl 5: Improved Disarm
Lvl 7: Iron Will, Two WPBonus Feats: Weapon Spec (Claw), Martial Versatility (Wep Spec (Natural))
Lvl 9: Greater Disarm
Lvl 10: Improved Crit (Claw)
Lvl 11: Lunge
Lvl 13: Feat, Two WPBonus Feats: Greater Wep Focus (Claw), Greater Wep Spec (Claw)

Lvl 16: Martial Mastery

Obviously there are some holes here, not sure what exactly to take for some feats, some feats like Iron will could probably be traded out for something better but I'm just not sure what...

I want to keep this PFS legal, so as far as I can tell, no Multiattack without taking a Ranger Dip for Natural Weapon Combat Style.

I chose to take the Disarm tree simply because if you disarm without a weapon you can automatically pick up the object the target drops. Not 100% sure how this works with armed-unarmed attacks (Do I get to grab the Sword if I use my Claws to disarm?) but it SEEMS like it should work.

The Brawler Dip lets me dump Int, because I still count as having int 13 for the purposes of taking combat feats.

Attacks
Level 1: Unarmed Strike +1, 1d6, Bite -4 1d4
Level 2: Either Bite +2 1d6, Claw +1 1d6, Claw +1 1d6; or Unarmed Strike +1 1d6, Bite Claw Claw -3/-4/-4 1d6 each
Level 8: Bite Claw Claw +7 1d8; or Unarmed Strike (Kicks) +7 1d8, Unarmed Strike +2 1d8, Bite Claw Claw +2 1d8
I'm going to figure out the exact damage numbers later. This is all preliminary.

So, any good PFS legal feats I'm missing?

Dark Archive

I was thinking Half-Orc (City-Raised for Whip Prof), hence the question, if I had to spend a feat, is it worth it?

Dark Archive

If you're planning to go Whip Mastery tree, is it worth the Exotic Weapon Prof feat to have a Scorpion Whip?

As far as I can tell, once you have Whip Mastery, the benefits to Scorpion Whip are as follows:
1d4 vs 1d3 (+ .5 dmg avg)
If you used it as a SCORPION WHIP not as a WHIP during your turn, you threaten adjacent squares.

And once you have Improved Whip Mastery, the only remaining benefit is the 1d4 v 1d3.

So, if I'm planning to go full Whip Mastery chain, is it ever worth while to spend a feat for Exotic Wep Prof (Scorpion Whip)?

(Thinking of Building a Whip UnRogue)

Side Question, if I DO go with a Scorpion Whip, used as a Whip do I need to assign weapon feats to Whip or Scorpion Whip? Do I need my UnRogue Finesse assigned to Whip or Scorpion Whip so that I get Dex to Damage when using my Scorion Whip as a Whip?

Dark Archive

Per SRD
Benefit: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack.
Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to disarm you of gauntlets.

So, I have to get rid of the weapon and shield.
Gauntlets still count as unarmed strikes.

But, yes, having to either sunder or disarm two things is moderately annoying.

Specifically carry a pouch full of some sort of powder on my belt for use with Dirty Trick?
"I throw Sand in his eyes"
DM: Where do you get the sand?
"From the bag of sand I carry at all times on my belt."

Dark Archive

So, let's say I go some route with Sneak Attack.

With Catch Off Guard, any unarmed foe is considered flat footed, so I get my sneak attack.

Which Combat Maneuver is my best choice?

1> Disarm, make them drop their weapon
2> Sunder, Break the weapon
3> Dirty Trick, just Blind them to make them lose Dex to AC so I can Sneak Attack.

Dark Archive

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Yeah, playing a core rogue at this point (now that the UnRogue exists) seems like the bad version of "Let's use unplayable garbage" unless you're trying to do something really specific with one of the rogue talents the URogue doesn't get.

I mean, you can still make a case for playing a Chained Monk (I really kind of want to put together a Nornkith), but the URogue is pretty much a straight upgrade at no cost. for $40 ($10 for PDF) cash money.

Fixed that for you. :Þ

Dark Archive

So, Adventurer's Armory 2 added a lot of fun new stuff for Improvised Weapons that makes an Improvised Weapons build a LOT more viable.

Particularly the new gloves that are Amulets of Mighty Fists but for Improvised Weapons.

So other than Monk of the Empty Hand, What's the best class for an IW build?

Fighter is always nice for the Feats, but there's no way I know of to get your Weapon Training bonuses with your Improvised Weapon, so you're pretty much always better off with a "Real" Weapon.

I'm thinking Ranger or Slayer.
Full BAB, Ranger weapon styles give access to pertinent extra combat feats (with the bonus of not having to meet the prerequisites), and Favored Enemy or Studied Target gives the bonuses to hit and damage that I want but can't get from Weapon Training.

Thoughts?

Dark Archive

Roughly how often do they update the Additional resources guide? Or is it tied more to product releases than time?

Specifically, do we have any idea how soon we'll get a listing of what stuff from Adventurer's Armory 2 is PFS legal?

Also (sorry I'm still fairly new to PFS) what is the status of things like the player companion books before they get added to the Additional Resources Guide? Are they just not usable in PFS till then?

Thanks!

Dark Archive

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
SheepishEidolon wrote:
* Improvised weapons user
Life just got MUCH easier for them with a new magic item that grants enhancement bonuses to any improvised weapon you use, both in melee and thrown. Actually, it's more effective to play a thrown improvised weapon user than it is to play any other thrown weapon build at this point because of them.

What's this? Cause that would make one of my idiot builds a lot more effective.

Dark Archive

I suppose another question would be, are Rogue talents, and Slayer talents that let you take rogue talents different? Because if we're going down this silly road of Sneak Attack is not Sneak Attack but Sneak Attack, so you can't stack them, it becomes a legitimate question.

I.E. You can normally only take the Rogue Talent Combat Trick and the Rogue Talent Weapon Training once each. But you can also take them as Slayer Talents.
So, is Rogue Talent (Weapon Training) different from Slayer Talent (Rogue Talent [Weapon Training]) allowing a multiclass Rogue/Slayer to get both (for different weapons)?
What about a Slayer/Ranger? A Slayer that takes Slayer Talent(Ranger Combat style) is locked into the style for later instances for that Slayer Talent. But since Bloodrager has language that says their bloodlines from other classes must match, and Warpriest has language that says their Blessings and Domains from other classes must match, and Slayer DOESN'T have any such language associated with Slayer Talent(Ranger Combat Style) does this mean a Slayer/Ranger can take ONE combat style as a Slayer, and a DIFFERENT Combat style as a Ranger?

Dark Archive

Right, let's talk some theory then.

Say we've got a Rogue 8 / Slayer 12

Some say the SA damage would be 4d6 (because they don't stack) some say 8d6, because both apply.

Now, An Arcanist get's spells. If someone went Arcanist 5/ Sorcerer 5, nobody would argue that they don't get their socerer spells. We clearly understand they would get spells as an Arcanist 5, and seperate spells as a Sorcerer 5. It's the same class feature, but it doesn't stack, it's SEPARATE. OK?

A Bloodrager gets a bloodline. If you go Bloodrager/Sorcerer, you are required to take the same bloodline for both. If we look at the bloodlines, however, we see each class gets different stuff from them. An Abyssal Bloodline Bloodrager/Sorcerer gets separate spells, gets bonus spells from bloodline at different levels based on each class level, gets different bonus feats, and gets different bloodline powers from the same bloodline depending on which class is at what level. They are SEPARATE.

If you had a Swashbuckler 10/ Rogue 10, they could Precise Strike and Sneak attack +5d6 together. There is no rule preventing MULTIPLE SEPARATE precision damage sources to my knowledge. So, as long as both powers are valid, the attack does [Weapon + Stat] + 10 (swash precise strike0 + 5d6 (rogue sneak attack)

NOW. Each instance of increased sneak attack in each class is written as +1d6, +2d6, +3d6, etc. But a 5th level rogue doesn't get 6d6 (+1d6+2d6+3d6) we all understand that the powers are replaced, the TOTAL is listed. Therefore it is not + "3d6" sneak attack, it is "+3d6" Sneak attack. Your rogue sneak attack is +3d6 to your damage roll.

So, I would argue, by a strict logical reading of the rules, considering how stacking separate powers works in every other instance, a Rogue 8 Slayer 12 would have +4d6 (ROGUE Sneak Attack) AND +4d6 (SLAYER Sneak Attack) and that in any instance where both attacks are legal could apply both, for a total of 8d6 sneak attack damage. HOWEVER, for the purposes of qualifying for Feats, their highest sneak attack value is +4d6.

Likewise, certain class features or Archetype alterations would logically apply only to one or the other and therefore allow situations where both don't apply.
If, for example you had a Knife Master Rogue 8 / Sniper Slayer 12, you could have the following.
Close up against a flat footed foe, using a Dagger or Kukri, etc., +4d8 +4d6.
At Range, withing 30 ft, using a star knife, +4d8, +4d6
At Range, within 30 ft, using a Longbow, +4d4 +4d6 +12 (sniper archetype).
At 100ft with a Longbow, Nothing from Rogue, +4d6 (slayer) +12 (sniper)

Although frankly, I feel that this is all RAW, and that RAI and any FAQ we get will say "Oops, add them together, a Rogue 8 Slayer 12 has 8d6 sneak attack".

Dark Archive

Sometimes I'm just bad at reading :P

Okay, so MAC Warpriest get's weapon training 1-5, and chooses weapon groups, but only the weapons in those groups that you have weapon focus with or that are your deity's favored weapon get the benefit.

Bonus feat benefits ONLY on the every third level bonus feats.

MAC Warpriest qualifies for Advanced Weapon Training, EXCEPT is SPECIFICALLY precluded in PFS by the additional resources guide.

I think I can make this work.

Thanks!

Dark Archive

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All of the things said here, and also a decent helping of "My character is Lawful Good and therefore we have to do things THIS WAY ONLY" players railroading the rest of the group.

I.E. people playing LG badly.

I think the adage on the old WotC board was something like '90% of Paladins aren't Lawful Good, they're Lawful Stupid.' and often responded with 'And the other 10% are worse'.

Mostly it's bad Paladin fallout, both player and DM.
As mentioned, all the bad pseudo Catch 22's.
Oh, you're in the evil kingdom and they're gonna blood sacrifice an innocent child, but it's the LAW. So if you interfere, you stop being lawful and fall, but if you DON'T interfere, you stop being GOOD and you fall, because really bad interpretations of what Lawful means.

Dark Archive

Also brings up a general Warpriest question. Does the "Treat your Warpriest level as your BAB, and Treat you Warpriest level as your Fighter level" only apply to feats you take with the every third level bonus feat, or does it apply to all combat feats even if you take them with your normal every odd character level feats?

I.E. if a feat is a combat feat and requires +1 BAB, can I take it at first level?

Dark Archive

Does MAC just get Weapon Training 1, or does it progress like Fighter? And would I therefore be able to take Advanced Weapon Training at 9/13/17?

Dark Archive

Advanced Weapon Training Warrior Spirit

I'm not really planning to use rope whips or a rope spiked chain at higher levels, but a low levels when no-one has magic weapons it would be entertaining.

It's a bit of a challenge to get Ad Hoc magic weapon powers on a Full BAB class.

Vigilante would be good if it had a TWF Talent, but it doesn't.

That robe is nice though! Hadn't seen that one before.

Dark Archive

As far as I can tell, using Druid spells, No. There is no way to get vision on the Insect Spies before Greater Insect Spies as a 6th level spell.

There's a 4th level spell that lets you get vision/hearing on your Animal Companion or Familiar. It's from one of the small player companion books (Spymaster's Handbook), called Watchful Animal.

And my reading is that yes, all the communication with the insect spies is telepathic.

Dark Archive

I have a half formed idea.

A Half-Orc taking the Beastmaster and Chain-Fighter alternate racial traits will get to treat Whips and Spiked Chains as martial weapons.

So, if you take a class that gives proficiency in all martial weapons, you start with a lot of benefit from Equipment Trick (Rope) [EqTR].

It seems like 2 weapon fighting is the way to go, since I'd either be using a double weapon or 2 whips (or 2 scorpion whips)

The question is which class is my best choice.

Fighter - Lots of feats, let me easily get Whip feats, TWF feats, plus other normal fighter weapon feats. Also Martial Versatility (since half orcs qualify as half human) and all my weapons (Spiked Chain, Whip, Scorpion Whip) are Flail Group.

Ranger - TWF Style lets me spend my normal feats for Whip feats, while getting TWF chain without needing high dex. If I go Divine Tracker and choose Selket as my patron, I get free proficiency with Scorpion Whip, and with Whip proficiency can use Scorpion Whip as a 15ft reach weapon like a regular whip... Also Lead Blades.

Slayer - Same TWF Style while ignoring normal Dex requirements. Studied Target is decent. The main difference between Slayer and Ranger IMO for this build is losing spells and gaining Sneak Attack.

Also considering taking a 1-2 level dip into Warpriest (Selket) which would give Scorpion whip, and pretty easily allow my to use 1d6 for Whip and Scorion Whip.

Thoughts?

Dark Archive

I'd also like to say, this edges up on being a really good topic for a season of Lincoln Douglas Debate.

Resolve: When in conflict Law is More important that Justice.

My Definitions;
Lawful: In compliance with the Laws. LG with the spirit of the Law, LE with the Letter of the Law.

Just/Justice: Objectively Morally correct. Reasonable and appropriate punishment for acting in an objectively morally incorrect manner.

Dark Archive

Personally, I've always considered Justice to be the CG ideal.

D&D/Pathfinder I think represents my world view very well in the inclusion of Lawful Evil as a concept.

Never forget, Everything Hitler and the Nazi's did was LAWFUL, because they made the laws. (Sorry for Godwin-ing, but it really is the best example I can come up with).

Lawful Good is the belief that What is Lawful is, baring mistakes or deliberate sabotage of the system, Also what is Just. It includes the belief that those in power will normally act for the good of society, make laws fairly, and treat people equitably. (Lawful good is a little naive)

Lawful Neutral is the belief that What is Lawful is USUALLY Just, and that in the balance of all things, Maintaining order and societal function is MORE IMPORTANT than the few people who fall through the cracks. Lawful Neutral society is great, unless you're one of the people who falls through a crack and goes to prison for 15 years due to a clerical error.

Lawful Evil is the belief that any action is Okay, as long as it is not specifically banned or punished. Lawful evil is most TV Lawyers, most real world CEOs, and all politicians everywhere always. Yes even that guy you like who is different. Yes, it IS unfortunate for those orphans if the orphanage is shut down BUT I own it now and I want to put up a casino instead, so I'm evicting them, it's legal go suck an egg.

Neutral Good is the belief that Lawfulness is NOT a metric of whether something is Just or Injust. Law is useful for keeping society ordered, and NG will obey the law while it is Just, but will also actively work against the law if doing so is more Just. The Underground railroad was a Neutral Good organization.

Chaotic Good is the belief that Government is either inherently corrupt, or that positions of power either attract the corrupt or corrupt those who hold them. Lawfulness and Justice are completely divorced concepts, and if a Law is Just it's nice but purely an accident of chance. Also any Law, no mater how just and reasonable can still be manipulated for unjust purposes. Societal Order doesn't matter, only that treatment of the people is Just and fair. Chaotic Good is they guy who shoots the Lawful Evil king and doesn't quite understand why the populace isn't singing his praises and thanking him.

This is also why, in any game with a Paladin or other class with a moral code where violation results in 'falling' and loosing class features, I like to establish up front what that code is.
For paladins I like to establish, up front, that they LAW a paladin is bound by is the moral code of their patron deity, NOT the law of whatever random kingdom they're in. So if you're a Paladin of Pelor (3.X sun god, hates undead) and you're in a kingdom ruled by a lich with laws that say "Undead have rights, undead are the only citizens, slaying undead is a crime", you don't risk falling for slaying undead. Pelor doesn't care if Billy the Lich King says something is Law, Pelor cares if you follow PELOR's LAWS.

So, to the original question. If a Grey Gardener executes a wrongfully convicted person, is it an evil act? It's certainly Injust, so I would call it evil. But I would say the difference between evil and EVIL is intent. If you don't KNOW they are innocent, if you believe the law is just and that they were convicted properly, but your wrong, you have not acted with evil intent. If you KNOW (or even suspect) they are innocent, and still execute them anyway, THEN you have acted with evil intent. And that's they line I would draw for risk of alignment shift. Although as far as I can tell Gray Gardeners don't have an alignment requirement, so does someone who would do that care if their alignment changes?

Dark Archive

Is there any way to get Gravity Bow as a Druid?

Dark Archive

As far as I can tell, the limitation on what rage powers Skald can take are, It can't be a STANDARD Action to activate, and it can't cost extra rounds of Rage to activate.

So, is there any reason that a Skald can't take a Blood Rage line (ACG p.80)?
Specifically, lets say I take Lesser Abyssal Blood at 3rd, and Abyssal Blood at 6th. Does this mean that while I use Inspire rage, All my allies gain 2 claw attacks and grow one size category? Because that's how I'm reading it.

Also, What about Skald taking Unchained Barbarian rage powers? Particularly Stance powers? They're a Move action not a standard action, so I THINK they're ok. Can my Skald take Accurate Stance, thus granting my allies the ability to enter the Accurate Stance while I sing?

Dark Archive

I know that to use a Class, Archetype, Feat, Trait, Alternate or additional class features (like new Rage powers or Magus Arcana), and certain other things I need to own a copy of the book that it comes from.

The things I'm not sure of. Do I need to own the book for the following?
-Spells (Do I need APG to cast Spark)
-Weapon/armor Enchants (Do I need Ult Equip to have Impact on my weapon)
-Weapons/armor (Do I need Ult Equip to wield a Meteor Hammer or wear Four-Mirror Armor)
-Specific Gods (To have my Warpriest follow Selket do I need a copy of AP #80: Empty Graves (Mummy’s Mask 2 of 6)?)

Any other things I didn't mention that I would need a book for?

Dark Archive

Personally, I'm waiting for them to put out 'Pathfinder Player Companion: Some actual rules for Improvised Weapons to make an improvised weapons build viable including how weapon enchants work with improvised weapons'

And of course, 'Pathfinder Player Companion: One game-breakingly good feat in 32 pages of dross'

Dark Archive

I'm considering a character, Mostly Rogue with an early dip into sorcerer, built around Chill Touch and Claws from either Abyssal or Draconic Bloodline.

My question is this.

Say I've got Charges of Chill Touch, and I've got my Claws going, and I'm Flanking.

I hit with an attack, I do 1d4 (slashing?) damage from the claws (plus stats), 1d6 Negative energy damage from Chill touch.

Sneak Attack only triggers once from this attack, correct? I don't get to go "Sneak Attack Claws plus Sneak Attack Chill Touch" for absurd damage levels.

Do I get to decided what type of damage the Sneak attack deals?
I.E. if I hit something that's immune to negative energy can I say "The sneak attack damage is Claws."
Similarly if I hit something that is particularly vulnerable to Negative Energy, can I say "Sneak Attack is Chill Tough negative energy damage."

Additionally, is there a list somewhere of touch attack spells, particularly multi-charge spells like Chill Touch?

Dark Archive

1> Ranger combat styles let you take certain feats without meeting the prerequisites.
2> Natural weapons style allows you to select Weapon Focus.
3> This would allow you to, for example, take weapon focus with any exotic weapon you didn't take exotic weapon proficiency with.
4> Catch Off Guard removes the -4 penalty for improvised weapons but doesn't EXPLICITLY grant proficiency.

So, in theory, a dip into ranger or slayer would let you take Weapon Focus with an improvised weapon.

Straw poll: which of the following best reflects your opinion.
A> Weapon Focus (Improvised Weapon) is technically legal.
B> Too Broad, needs to be Weapon Focus(2handed bashing improvised weapon) or similar.
C> Still to broad, You have to make it Weapon Focus (Shovel) or Weapon Focus (chair) specifically.
D> No. Just no, stop, make a different character

Dark Archive

Dirty fighting is pretty much always better than combat expertise.

Also, Monk of the empty hand. Lots of boosts for improvised weapons. Flurry using your improvised weapons.

Dark Archive

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Also, with all these Ioun stones flouting around, I'm gonna make a character with mobility, Fleet stacking, Haste, and weapon focus Butterfly net.

Big battle going on, a single small kobold just runs through, snagging all the ioun stones and runs the heck away...

:p

Dark Archive

Alright
Str 22 (15 +1 lvl +2 Human +4 Belt)
Dex 14 (13 +1 lvl)
Con 10
Int 8
Wis 14
Cha 12

Gear
+3/+1 Meteor Hammer (20610 gp)
+4 Breast Plate (16350 gp)
+4 Belt of Str (16000 gp)
+3 Cloak of Resistance (9000 gp)
Pack Mule (8 gp)
Coffee Pot, portable Grinder, mug (5 gp)
Coffee, 540 lbs (27 gp) (Carried by pack Mule)

Remaining gold 0

AC (10 base + 6 armor + 4 Enchant + 2 Dex) = 22 in Meteor Mode, 23 in Fortress Mode due to the +1 granted by the weapon
Fort = 10 Will = 8

Using the Meteor Hammer as a 2h reach weapon in fortress mode stays the same.

TWF loses some DPS because I had to nerf the off end down to a +1 bonus
No Power Attack No Sneak: 40.22
No Power Attack With Sneak: 78.02
Power Attack No Sneak: 41.63
Power Attack With Sneak: 71.03

A loss of about 8.26 DPR on the best attack option, TWF Sneak no Power Attack.

But, again, mostly I just wanted to make sure my math looked right.

Dark Archive

Ok, I could only find the normal double crossbow.

Dark Archive

Thanatos C wrote:
...

How are you getting so many shots?

With Rapid Reload and Crossbow Mastery, reloading the Minotaur Double Crossbow is still a move action.

2 Standard -> Rapid Reload -> 2 Move -> Crossbow Mastery -> 1 Move for both bolts.

So I think you can only do one two-bolt attack a round, or two (four bolts total) with haste. Or am I missing something?

Which brings up a question, is it legal to load just one bolt in a double crossbow and fire?
Because then you could (with rapid reload and crossbow mastery) do Rapid Shot: Double Shot, Load 1 free, shoot, load 1 free shoot, Move action load 2 to prepare for next round. In Theory.

Dark Archive

Ok, I'm gonna post here mainly to see if I've done my math right.

Morty the Meteor Hammer Slayer (slayer 10)

stats:
15 / 14 / 13 / 12 / 10 / 8
Str 22 (15 +1 lvl +2 Human +4 Belt)
Dex 10
Con 14 (13 +1 lvl)
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 12

(Honestly, not going to bother with most of the build, because why does his defense of hp matter for this? Just looking at DPR...)

Class Features (one extra Slayer talent from Favor Class Bonus)
NOTE: Slayer Ranger Combat Style lets me get the TWF feats without meeting the requirements, I.E. I can Greater TWF with only 10 dex.
Ranger Combat Style (Two Wep[Two Weapon Fighting])
Rogue Talent(Weapon Training[Meteor Hammer])
Ranger Combat Style (Two Wep[Imp 2 Wep Fi])
Rogue Talent (Combat Trick [Greater Feint])
Rogue Talent(Unwitting Ally)
Ranger Combat Style (Two Wep[Grtr 2 Wep Fi])
Studied Target at +3
Sneak Attack at 4d6 (3d6 from levels, +1d6 from Feat)

Feats
L1 Dirty Fighting
Human Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Meteor Hammer)
L3 Improved Feint
L5 Skill Focus (Bluff)
L7 Accomplished Sneak Attacker
L9 Power Attack

Relevant Gear
+3/+3 Meteor Hammer 1d8
Belt +4 Str

Wielding in Fortress Mode, it's a 2h reach weapon.
Without Power attack, and without sneak attack: 33.78 dpr, +1 dmg is worth 1.7, +1 to hit is only worth 1 (because my to hit is already 23)
Without Power Attack, WITH Sneak attack: 56.88, +1 dmg is worth 1.7, +1 to hit is worth 1.7
With Power Attack, no Sneak: 40.4, +1 dmg is 1.4, +1 to hit is 3
With Both Power Attack and Sneak: 59.3, +1 dmg is 1.4, +1 to hit is 4.4

In Meteor Mode it's a Double Weapon and I'm using GTWF
Without Power Attack or Sneak: 45.68, +1 dmg is 3, +1 to hit is 3.1
Without Power Attack, With Sneak: 86.28, +1 dmg is 3, +1 to hit is 5.9
With Power attack, no sneak: 47.09, +1 dmg is 2.4, +1 to hit is 4.1
With Power Attack and Sneak: 79.29, +1 dmg is 2.4, +1 to hit is 6.9

So, if I'm in a situation to use reach, I'm Power Attacking.

If I'm adjacent and CAN'T get Sneak attack, I'm Power Attacking

BUT if I'm adjacent AND I can get sneak attack, I'm NOT Power Attacking...

EDIT: Minor math error

Dark Archive

3.X had rules for Multi-Weapon Fighting in some supplement, essentially the same as two weapon fighting but for more than two weapons. So using those in 3.X you could have a four armed race and get 3 extra attacks PER Iterative attack. It was pretty over powered, and it made your combat turns ungodly long and boring for everyone else.

PF has the same feat in the Bestiary, but it's not legal for PCs in Society games (no bestiary feats are) and I wouldn't be surprised if a DM in a home game said no. Also, there isn't any Improved or Greater Multiweapon fighting, so you'd only get the extra attacks on your FIRST iterative attack, not on the others.

That being said, even if you are limited to using Two Hands for each attack, having four hands is still powerful because you can do the following.

* Use your extra arms to retrieve gear like potions or scrolls.
* Hold and use wands (less likely to have to spend a move action to stow and draw to change your selections)
* Hold four weapons, with different enchants, because you can still attack with any of them, just limited by your number of attacks.
i.e. your holding a Holy sword, a Vorpal sword, a Flaming Burst Sword, and a Disrupting Mace. You have BAB 16/11/6/1. You COULD use each weapon to make ONE of those attacks, or use which ever one is the best for any given enemy.
* Theoretically you could hold a Bow and arrow with two hands or a Crossbow with two hands, and melee weapons with your other two hands, and once you have iterative attacks, you could mix melee and ranged.
* Theoretically, you could hold two heavy crossbows and use rapid shot with heavy crossbows without needing two other feats. Though it would take a while to reload them...
* Grapple with two arms, but you still have two free hands to make a sleight of hand check to pick their pockets while grappling? (This one may not be legal)

And so on.

Incidentally, when Star Finder comes out in August, Kasatha will be a core race for that game, which means we will get considerably more detail on what a character with 4 arms Should be Allowed to do.

Dark Archive

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Stone Dog wrote:
Extrapolating from this picture it looks like Soldiers have a D12 hit dice.
Not only do soldiers not have d12 Hit Points, but the question of "What Hit Dice do Soldiers Get?" is actually meaningless in Starfinder.

I see two possible interpretations here.

1> Hit dice don't come from your class, but from some other source, possibly theme?
2> There aren't hit dice PER SAY, but something (probably class) grants you a static number of HP per level, which is functionally exactly the same as HP works in PFS or D&D Adventurers league, but we're going to pretend it's different because we don't use the words "Hit Dice". And the soldier has a d12 hit die.

Dark Archive

Is there any way to post a Table in these forums?

Dark Archive

Two weapon Rend was supposed to be Double Slice. I made a copy error at some point.

Str 19 (17+2 Racial) Dex 15, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 7
1 - Combat Expertise, Two Weapon Fighting, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Meteor Hammer)
2 - Weapon Focus (Meteor Hammer)
3 - Power Attack
4 - Weapon Specialization (Meteor Hammer)
5 - Improved Trip
6 - Double Slice
7 - Greater Trip
8 - Greater Weapon Focus (Meteor Hammer)
9 - Improved Critical (Meteor Hammer)
10 - Combat Reflexes
11 - ???
12 - Greater Weapon Specialization (Meteor Hammer)

Dark Archive

Only building up to 12, because this is for a PFS character.

I've got two builds I'm considering. The main difference is, Do I bother with Improved Two Weapon Fighting?

I decided off the bat to not bother with Greater Two Wep, as it would involve sacrificing to much Strength for Dex to get up to 19 Dex.

So, build options. Human Fighter. 20 point buy.

Option 1 - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Str 18 (16+2 Racial) Dex 16, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 7
Level 4 stat goes into Dex so I can get Imp TWF
1 - Combat Expertise, Two Weapon Fighting, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Meteor Hammer)
2 - Weapon Focus (Meteor Hammer)
3 - Two Weapon Rend
4 - Weapon Specialization (Meteor Hammer)
5 - Improved Trip
6 - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
7 - Greater Trip
8 - Greater Weapon Focus (Meteor Hammer)
9 - Improved Critical (Meteor Hammer)
10 - Power Attack
11 - Cleave
12 - Greater Weapon Specialization (Meteor Hammer)

Option 2 - NO Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Str 19 (17+2 Racial) Dex 15, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 7
All stat bonuses go into strength for a 22 at level 12
1 - Combat Expertise, Two Weapon Fighting, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Meteor Hammer)
2 - Weapon Focus (Meteor Hammer)
3 - Two Weapon Rend
4 - Weapon Specialization (Meteor Hammer)
5 - Improved Trip
6 - Two Weapon Defense
7 - Greater Trip
8 - Greater Weapon Focus (Meteor Hammer)
9 - Improved Critical (Meteor Hammer)
10 - Power Attack
11 - Cleave
12 - Greater Weapon Specialization (Meteor Hammer)

I went with Improved Trip and Greater Trip because Meteor Hammer has the Trip weapon quality, and a special feature where if you successfully trip with it you can pull the target 5' closer to you.

So, basically I'm looking for things like, should I take the feats in a different order (Take Power Attack earlier, etc.) is there another race option that would benefit me more (some Half-Orc or Half-Elf alternate racial trait I missed that would help), and if there's an archetype that would benefit me?

The only thing I'm really married to in this build is Meteor Hammer and having at least basic TWF so that I can use it in both modes decently.

Dark Archive

Paladin
Magus
Warpriest
Occultist with Transmutation school
Fighter with Advanced Weapon Training
Probably other's I've forgotten.

A number of classes get the power to temporarily enchant or empower a weapon, granting it a +X weapon bonus, and adding a (usually limited) selection of weapon enchants.

Which class does this best?
Esp. with an eye to Melee vs Ranged weapons.

Dark Archive

El Kabong - Two-Handed weapon fighter that starts with a 2 level Bard dip, and builds for Improvised weapons.

First round, Summon Instrument to created a Dreadnaught sized Guitar (DM agreed that since it weighs a bit more than the great club we'd use that for damage).
Subsequent rounds, Arcane Strike Overhand Chop Power Attack with a Guitar.

KABONG!

And if the guitar breaks?
Drop it and summon a new one, it's a cantrip.

Dark Archive

Versatile focus, so you have weapon focus with all weapons you are proficient with.

If you'd posted that in the homebrew forum yesterday you'd have been told it was massively over powered and ridiculous.
Heck, you might still get told that today by people who haven't seen this preview yet...

Dark Archive

Okay, I've had an idea for a character, I'd like some early advice.

Basically, I want to take a starting dip in Gunslinger (1 to 3 levels), followed by something that will let me temp enchant my weapon.

I'm thinking Warpriest, but are there better options?
Magus is no good (because Eldritch Archer isn't PFS legal).
Paladin also seems good.

So, suggestions?

Dark Archive

Some maths.

I've built two characters to level 12, I'm gonna show some attack/damage math at four levels.

We've got two characters, Hubert, a Human two-handed weapon Fighter, and Gnitwit, a Gnome Slayer with a 1 level dip into Knife Master Rogue.

I'll look at 4 levels, 6 & 7 and 11 & 12. These levels because this is where Gnitwit first falls behind one attack per round, then catches up the next level.
Using wealth by level, at 6/7, 16,000gp at level 6, both characters get a +2 stat belt and a +1 Flaming weapon.
At 11/12, 82,000gp both instead have a +6 stat belt and a +2 Flaming Burst weapon.

Hubert is pure Fighter Two-Handed Weapon archetype, using a Great Sword.
Stats
Str 20 (18 + 2 racial)
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 7
Wis 11
Cha 7

All stat increases go into Strength.

Gnitwit is a Slayer with 1 level in Knife Master Rogue. 1st level Rogue, all subsequent levels Slayer.
Stats
Str 6 (8 – 2 racial)
Dex 16
Con 15 (13 + 2 racial)
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 14 (12 +2 racial)

All stat increases go into Dexterity.

Hubert build (1 empty feat, not sure what to put there)
1 wep focus (Great Sword)/power attack/cleave
2 furious focus
3
4 weapon spec (Great Sword)
5 great cleave
6 vital strike
7 hammer the gap
8 grtr wep focus (Great Sword)
9 crit focus
10 imp crit (Great Sword)
11 improved vital strike
12 grtr wep spec (Great Sword)

Gnitwit build (extra slayer talent at 7 from favored class bonus)
1- Feat-Weapon Finesse
3- Talent-Rogue Talent (Weapon Training [Kukri]), Feat-Slashing Grace (Kukri)
5- Talent-Ranger Combat Style (Two-handed Weapon [Power Attack]), Feat-Combat Reflexes
7- Talent 1-Ranger Combat Style (Two-handed Weapon [Great Cleave]), Talent 2-Slowing Strike, Feat-Stand Still
9- Talent-Rogue Talent (Combat Trick [Improved Critical {kukri}]), Feat-Extra Slayer Talent (Rogue Talent [Surprise Attack])
11- Talent -Ranger Combat Style (Two-handed Weapon [Dreadful Carnage]), Feat-Critical Focus

Key assumption, Enemy AC is for CR matching character level.
Level 6 - 19
Level 7 - 20
Level 11 - 25
Level 12 - 27

Gnitwit Total DPR no power attack
Level 6 - 15.26
Level 7 - 30.245
Level 11 - 59.4125
Level 12 - 69.3

Hubert Total DPR no power attack
Level 6 - 34.32
Level 7 - 34.32
Level 11 - 85.575
Level 12 – 84.75

Gnitwit DPR with Power Attack
Level 6 - 15.47
Level 7 - 29.715
Level 11 - 57.2625
Level 12 - 60.4125

Hubert DPR with Power Attack
Level 6 - 35.5
Level 7 - 35.5
Level 11 - 87.525
Level 12 – 84.075

DPR Calculations are made by figuring the attack damage (including backswing on Huberts 2nd and 3rd attacks) then multiplying by the % chance of actually hitting with each attack, and multiplying the average crit damage by the odds of critting multiplied by the odds of confirming (including Crit Focus at levels 11 & 12)

So we learn some important things here (power attack aint helpin Gnitwit at least against a CR==Level monster) but mostly we learn the following.

Gnitwit falls behind Hubert in DPR, to the following amounts.
At Level 6, when Gnitwit has one attack and Hubert has two, 20.24
At Level 7, when it's two all, 5.255
At Level 11, when Gnitwit has two and Hubert has three, 28.1125
And at Level 12, when it's three all, 14.775

Note, Kukri average damage is 2, Greatsword is 7, and Gnitwit is 4 stat points (2 mod) behind and Hubert gets stat mod * 1.5 or sometimes * 2.
So, we would expect Gnitwit to be behind by 8-9 damage points per HIT behind. But d8 sneak attack makes up a lot of that, and Studied Target helps as well.

Dark Archive

Just for funzies, Pick 3 levels, and give me an 'ideal' fighter stat array, 20 point buy, with an 18 for strength so we can build him with a starting 20 str. I'll do some maths tomorrow after work.

Dark Archive

1d3-2 + 1d8

Dark Archive

Str 6 small character, Medium load 16-30 lbs.
Breastplate (small) - 15 lb
Kukri (small) - 1 lb
Buckler (small) - 2.5 lb
Total - 18.5 lb

Medium load penalties are lesser than BP alone, therefore do not apply.

Other gear - Nah.

:P

First two levels are weak, level 3 (when we add Slashing Grace) come up to par with a 16 strength fighter using a great sword (thanks to 1d8 sneak attack), by level 10 (thanks to Studied Target and d8 sneak attack) we're ahead of the fighter (even counting Weapon Specialization) by about 6 damage per attack.
The biggest drawback is, that by taking a level of rogue, we fall behind 1 bab and therefore get our iterative attacks one level later.
So, if my 6 Str kukri slayer gnome is getting the same number of attacks, it's ahead in damage, if we're at lvl 6/11/16, I MAY be behind.

Dark Archive

I mean, if I wanted to make a super optimal character, I'd make a Half-Orc Two-Handed weapon fighter with an 18 boosted to 20 in strength and dump int/cha.

The goal here was never "Build the Best Character"
The goal was "Here's a S#!@ty Concept, make it the best possible."

Which, incidentally, my math indicates that the best option is 1 level of Knife Master Rogue followed by going Kukri melee slayer.

Dark Archive

And it's a prereq for Crossbow Mastery.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Is there some way I can change the title of the thread from "Quick Slashing Grace Question" to "Incredibly Contentious Flame War Starting Slashing Grace Question"?

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