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Organized Play Member. 126 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 3 Organized Play characters.


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Human Fighter wrote:
Flying magic man in the sky rains down fire death, while if I put up my shield as an action, I get a bonus to reflex saves.

FMM spends one action to concentrate on Fly so he doesn't plummet to the ground.

FMM now has a choice, spend 2 actions for a decent spell, or spend an action to move and 1 action for a single magic missile dart.

Also, Normal Fighter Dude, with Master Grade Athletics (so, lvl 7) has literally been said in a blog preview to be able to leap into the air and smash flying foes to the ground.

FMM needs to rethink his plan.

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GeneMemeScene wrote:

I don't really know the flavor trappings that would go with it, but I would like a class based on a resource that by design is supposed to ebb and flow, and is based on alternating between situational or tactical actions that gain you points and direct actions that cash out points to for higher effect.


Idea: Call it Momentum. Not sure what to call the class, but basically, you have a bunch of powers that do low damage and effects. Pushes, pulls, slows, etc. And once you've built up a bunch of Momentum (And used your low dmg powers to move all the enemies into a clump) you spend it on a high damage power. Probably price extra damage to cost extra momentum like most of the Psy-point or Spell-point systems do...

I'd certainly play it.

What I've wanted ever since I first picked up the Advanced Class Guide is a Cleric Rogue Hybrid that specializes in hunting Undead and/or Evil Outsiders. Give them d4 sneak attack, but against Undead/Evil Outsiders it does d8 radiant/holy/whatever-good-energy-damage-is-called-i-forget.

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Mark/Jason/any other devs willing to weigh in on this - Does Power Attack improve with either Class Level or Weapon Proficiency?

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Turmoil wrote:
Dave2 wrote:
Seems like same issue to me.

It's not the same issue because the numbers are so different. But it is a bit odd that every PF1 wizard must become better at weapon fighting, even if at a much slower rate than a fighter. But as for why your example is different:

PF1: BAB = 1/2 * level
PF2: BAB = 1 * level

PF1: Untrained weapon penalty -4
PF2: Untrained weapon penalty -2 (presumably, as per unified proficiency)

PF1: AC = 10 + various
PF2: AC = 10 + level + various (presumably, given AC counts as proficiency)

So the PF1 wizard has +6 to attack untrained with a greatsword for pitiful damage, while having an unarmored AC of 10 (ignoring magic items), wheras the PF2 wizard would have +18 to attack (which means auto-hit against AC 19, with 50% chance for double damage) while sporting 30 AC unarmored (if AC falls under proficiency, which is a safe bet, seeing as saves and such do).

The PF1 level 20 wizard meleeing a regular ogre will get his head bashed in even despite his HP advantage, wheras the PF2 wizard would demolish the same ogre (or a 5th level fighter, for that matter) by critting him into oblivion without even taking damage. And by the way, he will also effortlessly succeed at each and every skill check a regular untrained person can even attempt (DC 19), with half his successes critical for clearing by 10.

The two are clearly not in the same ballpark,[u] unless we're missing key parts of the picture.[/u]

We clearly are. Probably 99% of the picture at this point.

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I know I'm niche here, but I want good solid rules for Improvised Weapons right out the door.

Here are some Damage values based on size or number of hands needed, etc.

I want PF2 to have an equivalent of Catch Off Guard, but I want it to SPECIFICALLY make you Trained with Improvised weapons. Not "remove the -2 untrained penalty" or whatever, but Actually Trained Proficient.

I want to be able to advance my skill with Improvised weapons or a small subset of items used as improvised weapons, just like I could with any regular weapon, even if it requires a feat tax.

But if a level 15 fighter specializing in the war hammer can do some sort of crazy area attacks with legendary Hammer Skill, I want to be able to do something similar using a Chair if I've paid the extra feats to make up for the fact that I'm using a Chair not a Warhammer.

(Yes, this is again all about my El Cabong based character)

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PossibleCabbage wrote:

One of the things I do really like about this notion of "the whole party can sneak into a place, could dress up in stolen uniforms to get past a checkpoint, and can pass off forged paperwork as official even though the entire party is not skilled in stealth, disguise, and bluff" is that in practice, when the party figures out this is not going to work without leaving half the party behind (which isn't fun) is that the critical path then becomes "barge in and kill everyone" and if there's one thing Pathfinder needs it's less encouragement to be murderhobos.

I mean, the thing about these games is that they are about teams of people working together, not "one hero saves the day" so if for some reason the party needs to climb on top of something, in practice they have the best climber climb to the top and then fix a rope that the less experienced climbers can use to climb up. I figure now this is a situation where the fantasy and the game mechanics line up.

Why do they have to leave half the party behind?

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They've said proficiency applies to both armor and weapons, and implied that higher proficiency levels grant bonuses (IIRC an example in the proficiency thread implied that a master gets more AC from the same armor than someone just trained)

So, likely the theory craft here is wrong.
A Wizard may not be Able to use the same armor and weapon as the fighter, lacking proficiency, and baring that would be using them untrained, which may well lower the AC and damage values. While the fighter will be expert or better with them gaining bonuses.

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God I wish I was like the rest of you, able to form a fully nuanced, complete understanding of a system without having played it, or read it, or even seeing a preview of like 90% of it, or knowing how the system works at all yet.

What we know: There are 5 skill levels ranging from -2 to +3
You get skill stuff at least every other level
Some things you can't attempt without a minimum training level BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE OR THE GUIDELINES FOR DECIDING THAT YET.

But I mean by all means go off on your absolute lack of knowledge "OMG teh game iz ruined b-cauz untrained lvl 18 barbarian can UMD to cast miracle 18 times a day"

Let's stop and think.
If a roll is (as we've been told) Stat Mod + Skill(Level + Training) + Equiptment bonuses + Other, than, PROBABLY, just probably, They are building difficulties to consider that, and probably, JUST PROBABLY, the ENTIRE POINT of the "You can't do that untrained, you need at least expert to attempt that, etc" is to allow for differentiation between similar skill total numbers with different training levels.

Also, if you're playing a game where one character is a Level 1 Rogue Expert in a skill and another player is a Level 18 Barbarian Untrained in that skill, WHY ARE YOU IN A GAME WITH A LEVEL 1 AND A LEVEL 18 AT THE SAME TIME?!

Is this WoW? Are you power leveling your friend so he can join your raiding guild? [Seinfeld voice] What's the Deal? [/Seinfeld voice]

TLDR - Let's reserve judgement until we have the playtest document in hand so we HAVE SOME ACTUAL IDEA of how these things work.

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Having observed the wild speculation in every thread, I now feel that, if the Paizo Staff posted a Blog Post that simply said "The Core book will include stats for Bears." and that was it word for word, within 12 hours we would have 600 posts discussing:
- Are Bears a Playable Race, er, Ancestry?
- Are Bears a Class
- Bears in core are ruining the game
- Bears in core are essential
- How do bears work with Skill Feats?
- Am I proficient in Bears?
- Random race/class stats for Bears with no idea how any of those systems work in PF2.
- Obligatory "Bears mean PF2 is now exactly 4e/5e"
- "You've Ruined the Game I hate you forever".
- Making rules for Bears ruins the game because before we had rules for bears we could do bear things freely.

and 100 of those posts would be

- I just assumed Bars would be in
- Waht is an Ebra

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So it looks from the Proficiency blog post like Fighters will be able to up their weapons proficiency before other classes.

So, while 'BAB' seems to be the same for everyone, fighters will still spend most of the game with a better to hit roll, and presumably gain access to combat related feats faster than other classes.

I assume there will be feats that require Master and Legendary weapons proficiency.

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1> Bloodrager as a Barbarian Archetype.
2> Slayer
3> A Grit/Panache class. Not necessarily tied together with gun use, but definitely better than pf1 Swashbuckler.
4> Warpriest
5-10> new hybrid classes different from the pf1 hybrid classes.

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I don't think the skill points per level is a thing any more.

I'm holding a baby typing one handed so forgive me not going into detail, but the stuff so far looks like all skills are basically class level + stat mod + [-1, 0, +1] depending on proficiency.

But we need minimum 4 skill proficiencies definitely assuming a similar number of skills.

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WormysQueue wrote:

And if you think about it, as long as you don't set a fixed metric value to it, an inch or a foot is a quite unexact measure. I mean what feet are we talking about? Because that could make a huge difference, as soon as we're talking about longer distances.

Do, do Europeans think measuring feet aren't a fixed set size? Do you think we're using our actual lower leg appendages and not a fixed, regulated, government standardized measure?

Cause that's the vibe you're throwing off right there.

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I propose PF2 switch over to the FFF measures standard.

Furlong - (220 yards/ 201.2 m)
Firkin - (90 lb / 40.8 kg)
Fortnight - (14 days)

Use metric prefixes to adjust.

An average male human is around 9 milifurongs tall, weighs 1.7 firkins, and is middle aged at 9.1 hectofortnights.

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Patch Notes PF v
Alignment has been removed
All Paladins now have no alignment
All paladins now have no spell casting or healing
To account for this, all paladins now have Rage as per the Barbarian class feature
All Paladins have been equipped with Great Clubs.
Paladins retain their special mount and sense of moral superiority.

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I've thought of one thing I'd really like in the new edition.

From day 1, decent rules for Improvised weapons.
Feats so that you can be proficient with at least a narrow set of items used as Improvised weapons and benefit from other weapon feats using them.
Concise rules for determining damage values for Improvised weapons.
Rules allowing some way to put a weapon enchantment on items that are not specifically built to be weapons.

Rules on improvised weapons such that, if you choose to build that way you aren't ALWAYS going to be WAY BEHIND a similar character using a short sword.

I Just Want To Be Able To Beat Monsters To Death With A Guitar Is That So Wrong?

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DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Cool, we’re already starting conspiracy theories. Cool cool cool.

The 2e devs are Lizardmen from a colony inside the sun, pass it on.

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So, the main reason people seek political power is the fringe benefits. Power equals Wealth which in turn guarantees good food, drink, the nicest living spaces, and all other desirable forms of comfort and ease.

Now, Actually BEING IN CHARGE of something large like a country, and trying to do even a halfway decent job of it is a LOT of work. Being a decent ruler and providing a decent life for your subjects is hard time consuming work. And that's assuming no one under you is betraying you with the intent to usurp you.

But what if you're a Wizard? With access to spells up to 9th level. Do you desire good food? A Lush well appointed Home? With many Servants to cater to your every whim? Mage's Magnificent Mansion, as soon as you can cast it, lasts 26 hours and has 26 staff.
If you have crafting feats, you can make years worth of GP by crafting a single item and selling it at market price.
And, if you are a high level Wizard, your spells also mean that no-one can really FORCE you to do anything. You are essentially above the law since, Who but another level 20 wizard could possibly stand against you to make you obey?

So, if you can have all the benefits of high office without any responsibilities, WHY WOULD YOU CHOOSE TO TAKE ON THOSE RESPONSIBILITIES when you don't have to?
Altruism, that's about it.

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Assumption, I have to stick to one class list. I pick Wizard.

0. Prestidigitaion - As father of a newborn, if I could have ONE SPELL period, being able to clean the diaper by magic at will POOF done in under 6 seconds, I would take over anything...

1. Feather Fall

2. Darkvision

3. Tongues

4. Stoneskin

5. Overland Flight

6. Form of the Dragon I

7. Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion

8. Form of the Dragon III

9. Teleportation Circle

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For me, Fun characters aren't determined by class, so much as by build. The more ludicrous sounding the build, the better.

Equipment Trick (Rope) Half-Orc Warpriest (alt-racials to have Whip and Spike Chain profs)

Anyone specializing in an odd weapon or non-weapon (beat them to death with a Guitar)

Finagle the rules to max out a special power pool. Swashbuckler with max panache and extra tricks.

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43. Spread sovereign glue on a sleeping victim's hand, then tickle their nose with a long feather. *SLAP* "Whuh?"

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Hey, yo, I went and read the monster entries for those oozes, and I got a little hung up on the Plasma Ooze.

Plasma Ooze Entry wrote:
... While their origin is not fully known, it is widely accepted that plasma oozes are not from this world. Some scholars believe they dwell in the sun, while others maintain they hail from the Plane of Fire. That plasma oozes have been encountered in both of these locations does little to help solve the debate.

Is, is there a module that take place ON THE SUN?!

What module is this and how much fire resist do I need to stack to survive...

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This is why I like what Adventurer's League has done with 5e D&D, with the PHB+1 rule.

For Pathfinder, I'd probably go a bit more open (Core + 1 HB + 1 Floppy).

Keeps bloat down, and allows for players to much more easily own the books they need for their character without the need to own everything, and reduces the chances of catastrophic game breaking interactions. PHB +1 means that if two spells from different non-phb books cause endless loops or other game breaking effects, it doesn't matter, because no-one can HAVE both.

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To be an Atheist is to Not Believe in God/The Gods.

But there are two definitions of "Believe".

Clearly, in a setting like Golarion, you cannot 'Not Believe' in the gods in the sense of "No, Desna Irori and Asmodeus Do not Exist" because they provably DO exist, and some of them might just suddenly appear and smack you if you say they don't.

However, you CAN 'Not Believe' in them in the same way that you can not believe in a sports team, or not believe in a politician. So, sort of a "These beings exist, but they are not SPECIAL, merely powerful, and to accept that they should make the rules simply because they are powerful is to accept that the strong have dominion over the weak. Gods are not special and not worthy of worship."

At least that'd be my take on it.

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Feat wise, beyond the obvious Skill Focus, Prodigy from UM provides a similar but smaller bonus (+2/+4 @ 10 ranks) to two skills, and nothing says it DOESN'T stack with Skill Focus, so...

Also, Cooperative Crafting on an Ally might help, depending on how the class is written and how your DM interprets things.

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Just double checking, but for Starfinder society JUST the races in chapter 3 are legal (with a boon) correct? NOT the races in the Pathfinder Legacy section (Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, etc)?

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I want your opinions, what would you rule in your own games.

Spell Warrior Skald's Enhance Weapon Song allows part of the bonus to be spent to add effects, as long as the weapon is either granted or already has at least a base +1.
So, if your SpWarSk is 5th level, so their song grants +2, if you have a +1 sword you can spend those +2 to add Keen and Flaming.
If your sword is NOT magic, you can spend those to add a +1 and Keen, or a +2, or whatever as long as you have a basic +1 and the total value is 2.

This also allows you to add bonuses and effects to Improvised weapons.

So if I'm attacking someone with a Chair, and have the benefit of a Lvl 5 SpWarSk's song, I can have a +1 Flaming Chair.

Gloves of Improvised Might add magic bonuses to Improvised weapons. If I'm wearing a pair of +1 GoIM my improvised weapons function as +1 magic weapons.

Here's the question finally: If I'm wearing a pair of +1 GoIM, AND I have the benefit of a SpWarSk's 5th level Weapon Song, and I'm wielding a Broken Bottle, can I spend BOTH enhancement points from the Song on effects since the gloves make the bottle a +1 weapon?
Can I be wielding a +1 Flaming Keen Broken Bottle in these specific circumstances?

Thank you.

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I remember when Tome of Battle: Book of the Nine Swords came out for 3.5

Half of the WotC forums pooped themselves in rage.

I never actually got to PLAY any of the classes from it, because while all the other crazy classes from other books were ok (True namer, sure, Incarnum, not popular but ok, caster with unlimited spells, Nice), suddenly, if you give a "Fighter" the ability to have flaming sword attacks without a 8000gp magic item suddenly it's "Game Breaking" and "Really stupid" and "How does Fighter magicz Wut?"

So, Fighters don't have magic attacks by default because SACRED COW and people who don't like the fighter will WAH WAH WAH loudly and not allow the game to go on, unless the fighter takes some massive nerf/trade-off to have a minuscule amount of wizard spell casting.

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If my small warpriest giant growths to size large and wields a size huge 1-handed weapon 2 handed, what damage die do I use.

How do I dex to damage?

Why I think Dex to Damage breaks the entire game.

"Help me with my PFS Build" - 10,000 responses involving suggestions of 3pp classes and specifically PFS banned archetypes.

Hey, is X legal? - 45 pages of semantic arguments about Weapon Proficiency feats not explicitly granting proficiency, just removing the non-proficiency penalty, and how that impacts an unrelated build.

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Hi sorry, quick question, did people with a subscription already get their books/pdfs or something? How is it that people have the rules to look through?

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Another Question: Vatican City is technically it's own independent country, with the Pope as head of state.

Does Vatican City come to Golarian with Italy?

If NO: Then Italy has a giant hole in Rome that either leads down to bed rock, or is filled with sea water.
Meanwhile, the Vatican is a very surprised and precarious Island.

If YES: Then assuming even 1 in 10,000 of the holy relics in the Vatican Vaults possesses true power in Golarian, the once they realize this they will become a super power. Indeed, several items will likely be artifact grade. Lance of Longinus for example. Probably at least of few of the literal ton of wood scraps purported to be fragments of the true cross. Other things.

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Leaders of every nation and organization on Golarian poop themselves as copies of The Inner Sea World Guide slowly trickle out of Italy.

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My first question is, is this Italy from a version of our Earth where Paizo and Pathfinder don't exist, or is it the actual Italy from our actual world?

Because Italy has nerds and certainly some of them are familiar with/play Pathfinder.

The existence of ANY individuals within the transplanted nation who have knowledge of the setting, especially knowledge that would be hidden or uncommon to normal citizens of Golarian, would VASTLY change the dynamic, ESPECIALLY once they demonstrated that their knowledge was real and functional.

Also, regardless of whether the Judeo-Christian God and all attendant divine beings suddenly manifested in the Astral, Pathfinder allows (even if PFS doesn't) for Divine casters to worship/revere a creed/ideal/moral system instead of a discrete god, and still receive spells and divine powers. So, as long as the priests had REAL faith, and as long as they hold to their ideals, they SHOULD be able to pull at least first level spell casting as a cleric. Those with greater faith and devotion probably starting at a higher level.

What would be especially disruptive would be that, more than likely, under such a system many low ranking priests would exhibit strong magic, while many Archbishops and Cardinals who are essentially career politicians, would have none, having little to no ACTUAL faith, just a veneer and habit smeared over political aspirations.

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Alright, this is my first pathfinder homebrew. Please critique honestly, but gently? :P

My basic idea was to create a Fighter Archetype that could use improvised weapons well, without loosing out on what is arguably the Fighter's BEST class feature, Weapon Training.

Improvised Weapon Fighter


Weapon Proficiency
IWF is proficient with only Simple Weapons.
This Modifies Weapon Proficiency.

Improvised Weapons
IWF gains Catch Off-Guard and Throw Anything as bonus feats at 1st level.
This replaces the Fighter Bonus Feat at 1st level.

Absurd Training Regimen
IWF may treat specific non-weapon objects that are usable as improvised weapons as if they are weapons that they are proficient with, for the purposes of class features and feats that apply to a specific type of selected weapon (e.g. Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec, Improved Crit, etc).

Shovel, Guitar, Chair, or Severed Limb are examples of the correct level of specificity. Farm Tool or String Insturment is to vague. Orc Arm or Wing-back Chair is overly specific.

When the first feat for a given item is taken (generally Weapon Focus) it should specify the Improvised Weapon's class (light, 1 hand, 2 hand) and Damage type (P/S/B) in the following manner: Weapon Focus (Shovel – 2h Bashing) or Weapon Focus (Broken Bottle – Light Piercing)

As a specific exception to the normal threat stacking rules (i.e. they don't) if you take Improved Crit with an improvised weapon and Improvised Weapon Mastery, your crit threat range becomes 18-20/x2
This replaces Bravery

Weapon Training
IWF may select Light Improvised Weapons, One Handed Improvised Weapons, and Two Handed Improvised Weapons as Weapon Groups for Weapon Training, and for the purposes of any feats that refer to Weapon Groups or Fighter Weapon Groups. They are not limited to these groups, and may still take normal weapon groups.
This modifies Weapon Training

Weapon Mastery
IWF must choose an Improvised Weapon they have Weapon Focus with for this feature.
This modifies Weapon Mastery

Additionally a related 'Advanced Weapon Training' option, that isn't tied to the archetype, but is thematically linked.

Advanced Weapon Training:

Advanced Weapon Training: Trained Improvisation: (This may be taken for any weapon group except the Improvised Weapon Groups)When you use a normal manufactured weapon from the selected weapon group as an improvised weapon (for example, using the butt of your long spear to hit an adjacent enemy, or clubbing an enemy with your crossbow) you still gain the benefits of Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization if you have them with the weapon.
Additionally, if the weapon is magical and has a +1 or better enhancement, it counts as a +1 magic weapon even when used in an improvised manner.
Normal (Per Core Rulebook FAQ): A normal weapon used as an improvised weapon (such as using a Long Spear's butt end as a club) does not benefit from any weapon specific feats (such as Weapon Focus (Long Spear)) and does not benefit from any magical enhancements.

Any thoughts?

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Sol Bianca from Sol Bianca
Sword-Breaker (AKA Canal Volfeld) from Lost Universe
The Voidhawks from The Nights Dawn trilogy by Peter F Hamilton

Anything that falls into the category of "Remnant from an extinct or ascended race that still far surpasses our current tech level"

Any self aware Biotech ships.

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So, random idea I started working on last night, looking for any suggestions to improve it.

Half-Orc Warpriest (w/ 1lvl dip into Brawler)

Alternate Racial Trait: Toothy (1d4 Bite)
Half-orc -> use Human Favored Class bonus -> Extra bonus feat every 6 levels

Lvl 1: Brawler - Improved unarmed attacks, Power Attack
Lvl 2: Warpriest (remaining levels all Warpriest) Free Weapon Focus (Bite)
Choose a Deity that offers Animal Blessing. This gets us 2 1d6 claw attacks for 3+wis mod minutes per day.
Lvl 3: Combat Expertiese
Lvl 4: WP Bonus Feat - Martial Versatility (Weapon Focus (Natural))
Now my Bite, Claws, and Unarmed Attacks all use my Sacred Weapon damage, and have Weapon Focus
Lvl 5: Improved Disarm
Lvl 7: Iron Will, Two WPBonus Feats: Weapon Spec (Claw), Martial Versatility (Wep Spec (Natural))
Lvl 9: Greater Disarm
Lvl 10: Improved Crit (Claw)
Lvl 11: Lunge
Lvl 13: Feat, Two WPBonus Feats: Greater Wep Focus (Claw), Greater Wep Spec (Claw)

Lvl 16: Martial Mastery

Obviously there are some holes here, not sure what exactly to take for some feats, some feats like Iron will could probably be traded out for something better but I'm just not sure what...

I want to keep this PFS legal, so as far as I can tell, no Multiattack without taking a Ranger Dip for Natural Weapon Combat Style.

I chose to take the Disarm tree simply because if you disarm without a weapon you can automatically pick up the object the target drops. Not 100% sure how this works with armed-unarmed attacks (Do I get to grab the Sword if I use my Claws to disarm?) but it SEEMS like it should work.

The Brawler Dip lets me dump Int, because I still count as having int 13 for the purposes of taking combat feats.

Level 1: Unarmed Strike +1, 1d6, Bite -4 1d4
Level 2: Either Bite +2 1d6, Claw +1 1d6, Claw +1 1d6; or Unarmed Strike +1 1d6, Bite Claw Claw -3/-4/-4 1d6 each
Level 8: Bite Claw Claw +7 1d8; or Unarmed Strike (Kicks) +7 1d8, Unarmed Strike +2 1d8, Bite Claw Claw +2 1d8
I'm going to figure out the exact damage numbers later. This is all preliminary.

So, any good PFS legal feats I'm missing?

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I was thinking Half-Orc (City-Raised for Whip Prof), hence the question, if I had to spend a feat, is it worth it?

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If you're planning to go Whip Mastery tree, is it worth the Exotic Weapon Prof feat to have a Scorpion Whip?

As far as I can tell, once you have Whip Mastery, the benefits to Scorpion Whip are as follows:
1d4 vs 1d3 (+ .5 dmg avg)
If you used it as a SCORPION WHIP not as a WHIP during your turn, you threaten adjacent squares.

And once you have Improved Whip Mastery, the only remaining benefit is the 1d4 v 1d3.

So, if I'm planning to go full Whip Mastery chain, is it ever worth while to spend a feat for Exotic Wep Prof (Scorpion Whip)?

(Thinking of Building a Whip UnRogue)

Side Question, if I DO go with a Scorpion Whip, used as a Whip do I need to assign weapon feats to Whip or Scorpion Whip? Do I need my UnRogue Finesse assigned to Whip or Scorpion Whip so that I get Dex to Damage when using my Scorion Whip as a Whip?

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Benefit: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack.
Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to disarm you of gauntlets.

So, I have to get rid of the weapon and shield.
Gauntlets still count as unarmed strikes.

But, yes, having to either sunder or disarm two things is moderately annoying.

Specifically carry a pouch full of some sort of powder on my belt for use with Dirty Trick?
"I throw Sand in his eyes"
DM: Where do you get the sand?
"From the bag of sand I carry at all times on my belt."

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So, let's say I go some route with Sneak Attack.

With Catch Off Guard, any unarmed foe is considered flat footed, so I get my sneak attack.

Which Combat Maneuver is my best choice?

1> Disarm, make them drop their weapon
2> Sunder, Break the weapon
3> Dirty Trick, just Blind them to make them lose Dex to AC so I can Sneak Attack.

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PossibleCabbage wrote:

Yeah, playing a core rogue at this point (now that the UnRogue exists) seems like the bad version of "Let's use unplayable garbage" unless you're trying to do something really specific with one of the rogue talents the URogue doesn't get.

I mean, you can still make a case for playing a Chained Monk (I really kind of want to put together a Nornkith), but the URogue is pretty much a straight upgrade at no cost. for $40 ($10 for PDF) cash money.

Fixed that for you. :Þ

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So, Adventurer's Armory 2 added a lot of fun new stuff for Improvised Weapons that makes an Improvised Weapons build a LOT more viable.

Particularly the new gloves that are Amulets of Mighty Fists but for Improvised Weapons.

So other than Monk of the Empty Hand, What's the best class for an IW build?

Fighter is always nice for the Feats, but there's no way I know of to get your Weapon Training bonuses with your Improvised Weapon, so you're pretty much always better off with a "Real" Weapon.

I'm thinking Ranger or Slayer.
Full BAB, Ranger weapon styles give access to pertinent extra combat feats (with the bonus of not having to meet the prerequisites), and Favored Enemy or Studied Target gives the bonuses to hit and damage that I want but can't get from Weapon Training.


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Roughly how often do they update the Additional resources guide? Or is it tied more to product releases than time?

Specifically, do we have any idea how soon we'll get a listing of what stuff from Adventurer's Armory 2 is PFS legal?

Also (sorry I'm still fairly new to PFS) what is the status of things like the player companion books before they get added to the Additional Resources Guide? Are they just not usable in PFS till then?


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Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
SheepishEidolon wrote:
* Improvised weapons user
Life just got MUCH easier for them with a new magic item that grants enhancement bonuses to any improvised weapon you use, both in melee and thrown. Actually, it's more effective to play a thrown improvised weapon user than it is to play any other thrown weapon build at this point because of them.

What's this? Cause that would make one of my idiot builds a lot more effective.

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I suppose another question would be, are Rogue talents, and Slayer talents that let you take rogue talents different? Because if we're going down this silly road of Sneak Attack is not Sneak Attack but Sneak Attack, so you can't stack them, it becomes a legitimate question.

I.E. You can normally only take the Rogue Talent Combat Trick and the Rogue Talent Weapon Training once each. But you can also take them as Slayer Talents.
So, is Rogue Talent (Weapon Training) different from Slayer Talent (Rogue Talent [Weapon Training]) allowing a multiclass Rogue/Slayer to get both (for different weapons)?
What about a Slayer/Ranger? A Slayer that takes Slayer Talent(Ranger Combat style) is locked into the style for later instances for that Slayer Talent. But since Bloodrager has language that says their bloodlines from other classes must match, and Warpriest has language that says their Blessings and Domains from other classes must match, and Slayer DOESN'T have any such language associated with Slayer Talent(Ranger Combat Style) does this mean a Slayer/Ranger can take ONE combat style as a Slayer, and a DIFFERENT Combat style as a Ranger?

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Right, let's talk some theory then.

Say we've got a Rogue 8 / Slayer 12

Some say the SA damage would be 4d6 (because they don't stack) some say 8d6, because both apply.

Now, An Arcanist get's spells. If someone went Arcanist 5/ Sorcerer 5, nobody would argue that they don't get their socerer spells. We clearly understand they would get spells as an Arcanist 5, and seperate spells as a Sorcerer 5. It's the same class feature, but it doesn't stack, it's SEPARATE. OK?

A Bloodrager gets a bloodline. If you go Bloodrager/Sorcerer, you are required to take the same bloodline for both. If we look at the bloodlines, however, we see each class gets different stuff from them. An Abyssal Bloodline Bloodrager/Sorcerer gets separate spells, gets bonus spells from bloodline at different levels based on each class level, gets different bonus feats, and gets different bloodline powers from the same bloodline depending on which class is at what level. They are SEPARATE.

If you had a Swashbuckler 10/ Rogue 10, they could Precise Strike and Sneak attack +5d6 together. There is no rule preventing MULTIPLE SEPARATE precision damage sources to my knowledge. So, as long as both powers are valid, the attack does [Weapon + Stat] + 10 (swash precise strike0 + 5d6 (rogue sneak attack)

NOW. Each instance of increased sneak attack in each class is written as +1d6, +2d6, +3d6, etc. But a 5th level rogue doesn't get 6d6 (+1d6+2d6+3d6) we all understand that the powers are replaced, the TOTAL is listed. Therefore it is not + "3d6" sneak attack, it is "+3d6" Sneak attack. Your rogue sneak attack is +3d6 to your damage roll.

So, I would argue, by a strict logical reading of the rules, considering how stacking separate powers works in every other instance, a Rogue 8 Slayer 12 would have +4d6 (ROGUE Sneak Attack) AND +4d6 (SLAYER Sneak Attack) and that in any instance where both attacks are legal could apply both, for a total of 8d6 sneak attack damage. HOWEVER, for the purposes of qualifying for Feats, their highest sneak attack value is +4d6.

Likewise, certain class features or Archetype alterations would logically apply only to one or the other and therefore allow situations where both don't apply.
If, for example you had a Knife Master Rogue 8 / Sniper Slayer 12, you could have the following.
Close up against a flat footed foe, using a Dagger or Kukri, etc., +4d8 +4d6.
At Range, withing 30 ft, using a star knife, +4d8, +4d6
At Range, within 30 ft, using a Longbow, +4d4 +4d6 +12 (sniper archetype).
At 100ft with a Longbow, Nothing from Rogue, +4d6 (slayer) +12 (sniper)

Although frankly, I feel that this is all RAW, and that RAI and any FAQ we get will say "Oops, add them together, a Rogue 8 Slayer 12 has 8d6 sneak attack".

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Sometimes I'm just bad at reading :P

Okay, so MAC Warpriest get's weapon training 1-5, and chooses weapon groups, but only the weapons in those groups that you have weapon focus with or that are your deity's favored weapon get the benefit.

Bonus feat benefits ONLY on the every third level bonus feats.

MAC Warpriest qualifies for Advanced Weapon Training, EXCEPT is SPECIFICALLY precluded in PFS by the additional resources guide.

I think I can make this work.


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All of the things said here, and also a decent helping of "My character is Lawful Good and therefore we have to do things THIS WAY ONLY" players railroading the rest of the group.

I.E. people playing LG badly.

I think the adage on the old WotC board was something like '90% of Paladins aren't Lawful Good, they're Lawful Stupid.' and often responded with 'And the other 10% are worse'.

Mostly it's bad Paladin fallout, both player and DM.
As mentioned, all the bad pseudo Catch 22's.
Oh, you're in the evil kingdom and they're gonna blood sacrifice an innocent child, but it's the LAW. So if you interfere, you stop being lawful and fall, but if you DON'T interfere, you stop being GOOD and you fall, because really bad interpretations of what Lawful means.

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Also brings up a general Warpriest question. Does the "Treat your Warpriest level as your BAB, and Treat you Warpriest level as your Fighter level" only apply to feats you take with the every third level bonus feat, or does it apply to all combat feats even if you take them with your normal every odd character level feats?

I.E. if a feat is a combat feat and requires +1 BAB, can I take it at first level?

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Does MAC just get Weapon Training 1, or does it progress like Fighter? And would I therefore be able to take Advanced Weapon Training at 9/13/17?

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