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Tiny Coffee Golem's page

9,160 posts. Alias of wesF.


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Invisibility is the wrong word I think. It just makes the area appear as it did before the spell was cast. More like an illusionary wall I think. One that you can see out of, but not into.

Edit: I just realized I never finished the thread title.


Dracovar wrote:

Looks like you want to add the benefits of an Invisibility Sphere to your Tiny Hut.

4th level might be a bit on the low side - after all, you are combining two third level spells. 4th level is also where you get the Secure Shelter. Nice secure cabin, but obviously not invisible.

6th level gives us the Magnificent Mansion - Rope Trick on steroids. Your spell isn't that powerful.

So, I'm thinking 5th would be a reasonable sweet spot for your idea. I think to make it worth a 5th level slot, I'd remove the condition that the caster must remain inside the hut/hemisphere. Giving it a bit more flexibility.

The only remaining thing I can think of is how to deal with attacks originating from inside this buffed up Invisibility Sphere. You don't want attacks to 'dispel' the field, nor do you want to have it act like a group Improved Invis. So, perhaps - attacks originating from inside the sphere flip it from Invisibility to Opaque, essentially blowing the "invis" benefit.

An immobile invisibility sphere-ish, yea. Though it's more of an illusion of the surrounding area than actual invisibility.

Attacks shouldn't dispel it, but maybe cause a ripple effect on the dome for a round. Effectively making it opaque for a round. Maybe crossing the threshold at all does that.

I think 5th would be fair. I see this being used more as an outpost than a shelter. Hidden rally point kind of thing.


I'm looking for feedback on a spell i'd like to research in game.

Basically, it's tiny hut except instead of an opaque sphere everything inside the area is hidden/invisible. If anyone plays WOW the Kirin Tor have something remarkably similar. When you cross the threshold you can see everything inside. When you're outside though it looks like nothing is there.

I'm not quite sure how to properly word that or what level it should be. At least 4. Maybe 5. However, i'd like to balance that against other, better, camping spells. Rope Trick, for example, is almost too good not to use and it's lower level.

Maybe something like, "Any creature or effect viewing the area from the outside, the area appears as an untouched version of the area before the spell was cast. Effectively hiding creatures and objects."

Tiny Hut:

Tiny Hut
School evocation [force]; Level bard 3, sorcerer/wizard 3

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a small crystal bead)

EFFECT
Range 20 ft.
Effect 20-ft.-radius sphere centered on your location
Duration 2 hours/level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

This content was created for the Pathfinder rules by Paizo Publishing LLC and is part of the Pathfinder RPG product line.
By the way...
The effects created by this spell move with a ship.
Source Skull & Shackles Player's Guide

DESCRIPTION
You create an unmoving, opaque sphere of force of any color you desire around yourself. Half the sphere projects above the ground, and the lower hemisphere passes through the ground. As many as nine other Medium creatures can fit into the field with you; they can freely pass into and out of the hut without harming it. However, if you remove yourself from the hut, the spell ends.

The temperature inside the hut is 70° F if the exterior temperature is between 0° and 100° F. An exterior temperature below 0° or above 100° lowers or raises the interior temperature on a 1-degree-for-1 basis. The hut also provides protection against the elements, such as rain, dust, and sandstorms. The hut withstands any wind of less than hurricane force, but a hurricane (75+ mph wind speed) or greater force destroys it.

The interior of the hut is a hemisphere. You can illuminate it dimly upon command or extinguish the light as desired. Although the force field is opaque from the outside, it is transparent from within. Missiles, weapons, and most spell effects can pass through the hut without affecting it, although the occupants cannot be seen from outside the hut (they have total concealment).


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Paradozen wrote:

Well, summoning helps here. Round 1: Summon Giant Frogs (or whatever). Round 2 find cover and lie down (+8AC v ranged attacks) Round 3: Take a 6 second nap. Round 4: Complain about how long the fight is. Round 5: Repeat 1-4.

But to be honest, as a Druid, SNA has a very crappy summon list; unless you get something with good to-hit and Pounce, or something that has very high AC or some special attack ability (i.e. Elementals), it's just....ehhh...

I mostly agree. However, I had a druid that thoroughly enjoyed summoning a bunch of celestial big cats to pounce on things.

Side note: Did you know a group of cats is called a Clowder? It became a running joke and the other team mates would make angry cat sound effects on my turn. The comic value alone made this build worth it.

I have a feeling we'll be fighting Evil things soon enough, so I'm curious as to how you're able to summon Celestial creatures, even though Druids, AFAIK, can't summon creatures with Celestial or Fiendish templates because they require a Neutral alignment (on either axis).

Actually, they weren't celestial. Just leopards. My mistake.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

Updated again. More gish-ish. He may have too much gear
Also, now he's an Assimar with tainted blood.

Simon Demarkus:

Simon Demarkus
Male angel-blooded aasimar (angelkin) dragon disciple 5/paladin 2/sorcerer 3/Archmage 2 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Angels 21, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 7)
LG Medium outsider (native)
Hero Points 1
Init +10; Senses blindsense 30 ft., darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +12
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 32, touch 13, flat-footed 29 (+11 armor, +3 Dex, +3 natural, +5 shield)
hp 103 (10 HD; 3d6+2d10+5d12+49)
Fort +19, Ref +16, Will +17
Defensive Abilities hard to kill; Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee +2 demon-bane holy planar cold iron falchion +14/+9 (2d4+12/18-20 plus 2d6 vs. Demon plus 2d6 vs. evil)
Special Attacks breath weapon, claws (2, 1d6, treated as magic weapons, 12 rounds/day), claws (2, 1d6, treated as magic weapons, 12 rounds/day), dragon bite, eldritch breach[MA], mythic power (7/day, surge +1d6), smite evil 1/day (+9 attack and AC, +2 damage), wild arcana[MA]
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 2nd; concentration +11)
At will—detect evil
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 8th; concentration +17)
3rd (5/day)—fly, haste
2nd (7/day)—blur, command undead (DC 21), resist energy, rope trick
1st (9/day)—feather fall[M], grease, infernal healing[ISWG], mage armor, true strike[M]
0 (at will)—detect fiendish presence, detect magic, disrupt undead, message, open/close (DC 19), prestidigitation, read magic
Bloodline Abyssal, Draconic
M mythic spell
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 24, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 28
Base Atk +6; CMB +13; CMD 27
Feats Arcane Armor Training[M], Arcane Strike, Eldritch Heritage[UM], Eschew Materials, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Knowledge [planes]), Toughness
Traits armor expert, magical knack
Skills Acrobatics +12 (+8 to jump), Appraise +7, Bluff +13, Diplomacy +13, Escape Artist +6, Fly +6, Handle Animal +13, Heal +5, Intimidate +13, Knowledge (arcana) +11, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +7, Knowledge (geography) +7, Knowledge (nature) +7, Knowledge (planes) +12, Knowledge (religion) +7, Perception +12, Sense Motive +3, Spellcraft +16; Racial Modifiers +2 Heal, +2 Knowledge (planes)
Languages Celestial, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven
SQ amazing initiative, bloodline arcana (energy spells that match bloodline energy deal +1 damage per die), hero points, lay on hands 10/day (1d6), mythic spellcasting[MA]
Other Gear +2 restful mithral full plate, suns kiss, +2 demon-bane holy planar cold iron falchion, belt of physical perfection +4, headband of mental prowess +4 (Int, Cha), page of spell knowledge (rope trick)[UE], 150 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Amazing Initiative (1/round) (Ex) As a free action, use 1 power to gain an extra standard action (can't be used to cast a spell).
Arcane Strike As a swift action, add +1 damage, +1 per 5 caster levels and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Blindsense (30 feet) (Ex) Sense things and creatures without seeing them.
Bloodline Arcana: Draconic (Ex) +1 damage per die for [Fire] spells.
Breath Weapon (1/day, DC 21) (Su) 1/day, Breath Weapon deals 5d6 (energy) damage, DC 21.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Dragon Bite (Ex) Bite atacks deal 1d6 damage
Eldritch Breach (Su) Roll twice and take better roll when dispelling or overcoming spell resistance.
Energy Resistance, Acid (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Acid attacks.
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Hard to Kill (Ex) Automatically stabilize when dying, and only die at neg Con x 2.
Hero Points Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
Lay on Hands (1d6 hit points, 10/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Magic Claws & Bite (12 rounds/day) (Ex) As a free action, gain 2 claw attacks that bypass DR as magic weapons. Bite attack deals 1d6 damage.
Magic Claws (12 rounds/day) (Ex) As a free action, gain 2 claw attacks that bypass DR as magic weapons.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Smite Evil (1/day) (Su) +9 to hit, +2 to damage, +9 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Surge (1d6) (Su) Use 1 power to increase any d20 roll by the listed amount.
Wild Arcana (Su) Use 1 power, cast an arcane spell from your class list at +2 CL (doesn't need to be known/mem).

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Paradozen wrote:

Well, summoning helps here. Round 1: Summon Giant Frogs (or whatever). Round 2 find cover and lie down (+8AC v ranged attacks) Round 3: Take a 6 second nap. Round 4: Complain about how long the fight is. Round 5: Repeat 1-4.

But to be honest, as a Druid, SNA has a very crappy summon list; unless you get something with good to-hit and Pounce, or something that has very high AC or some special attack ability (i.e. Elementals), it's just....ehhh...

I mostly agree. However, I had a druid that thoroughly enjoyed summoning a bunch of celestial big cats to pounce on things.

Side note: Did you know a group of cats is called a Clowder? It became a running joke and the other team mates would make angry cat sound effects on my turn. The comic value alone made this build worth it.


Davor wrote:

Well, the main issue is that, without added spell support, there is little reason to consider a heavily paladin-based DD over a split Paladin/Sorcerer. Paladin 2/Sorcerer 3/Dragon Disciple 4 has a lot more going for it, and if you want to continue down the gish path, you now qualify for Eldritch Knight, so you can keep your BAB up. This way, at 9th level, while your BAB is a tad low, you have access to 3rd level spells like Haste, Heroism, and Fly, all of which can support the party, or close the melee gap with the raw Paladin build, while also giving you access to more 2nd level spells, a better Arcane Strike damage bonus, and it opens up some of your feats.

If you are insisting on using a one-handed weapon, pick up a mithral light shield/buckler. It's an easy way to keep up your defenses. If not, grab a two-handed and put that strength to work. Instead of Dodge/mobility/spring attack, consider Arcane Strike, Furious Focus, Or something else with more direct benefit. Swap out one of your traits for Magical Knack. That caster level boost is too important not to take.

With your stats, consider grabbing a reach weapon and Combat Reflexes. With Enlarge Person up, you cover a huge area with lots of threat. If you really want a companion, swap out your 1st level bloodline power for a familiar, and consider the Protector archetype for it. It's a solid utility/defensive boon.

This is good stuff. Thank you.


Renegadeshepherd wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Renegadeshepherd wrote:
My critique is that a full on paladin going into dragon disciple is a loss for the paladin. The mercies and scaling boosts to your lay of hands is better than dragon disciples features. Conversely if you went with spell casting your levels for spells are very low, almost nonexistent. 2 levels of a paladin and the rest sorcerer/DDis pretty good on the other hand. Your build is otherwise pretty solid as far as I could decipher. I would actually take all 10 levels of DD in this case.
DD requires 5 ranks in Knowledge Arcana.
Not sure I follow, I'm proposing 2 paladin/dd10/sorc8.

You need 5 levels in something before DD and I didn't see the sorcerer levels.


Renegadeshepherd wrote:
My critique is that a full on paladin going into dragon disciple is a loss for the paladin. The mercies and scaling boosts to your lay of hands is better than dragon disciples features. Conversely if you went with spell casting your levels for spells are very low, almost nonexistent. 2 levels of a paladin and the rest sorcerer/DDis pretty good on the other hand. Your build is otherwise pretty solid as far as I could decipher. I would actually take all 10 levels of DD in this case.

DD requires 5 ranks in Knowledge Arcana.


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Sauce987654321 wrote:
Really, Greater Teleport can allow you travel to other planets if you have some idea of where you are going. Interplanetary Teleport just does that much better.

I thought greater teleport was limited to a planetary scale.


dot.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20
Anaxian, the Fractured Wyrm wrote:
...Ok, I give up. Now I really want to throw people into space.

The plan has merit. Can't fault it for efficiency.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

I've been dragging my feet on the Hero anyway. lol. No worries.


I'm looking for advice about my dragon disciple character. The idea of this game is that we're all holy warriors, though not necessarily paladins. I also have 2 mythic tiers.

I've not got a lot of experience with martial or even Gish characters. I'd appreciate any feedback to make this better.

I was even thinking about making the race Asimar.

I'm going for a demon touched thing with the eldritch heritage, plus it's a strength boost.

Thoughts?

Simon Demarkus:

Human dragon disciple 4/paladin 5/sorcerer 1/Guardian 2
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Hero Points 1
Init +4; Senses Perception +14
Aura courage (10 ft.)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 28, touch 14, flat-footed 24 (+11 armor, +2 Dex, +2 dodge, +3 natural)
hp 92 (10 HD; 1d6+5d10+4d12+35)
Fort +10, Ref +6, Will +10
Defensive Abilities hard to kill; Immune disease, fear
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee Legendary adamantine scimitar +15/+10 (1d6+6/18-20) or
bite +9 (1d6+9), 2 claws +14 (1d4+8)
Special Attacks breath weapon, channel positive energy 2/day (DC 14, 3d6), claws (2, 1d4, treated as magic weapons, 5 rounds/day), claws (2, 1d6, treated as magic weapons, 5 rounds/day), dragon bite, mythic power (7/day, surge +1d6), smite evil 2/day (+2 attack and AC, +5 damage)
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th; concentration +7)
At will—detect evil
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 4th; concentration +6)
2nd (4/day)—false life, resist energy, rope trick
1st (7/day)—enlarge person (DC 13), feather fall[M], mage armor, true strike[M]
0 (at will)—detect magic, disrupt undead, mending, message, open/close (DC 12), prestidigitation
Bloodline Abyssal, Draconic
Paladin Spells Prepared (CL 2nd; concentration +4)
1st—divine favor, weapons against evil
M mythic spell
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 23, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 15
Base Atk +8; CMB +14; CMD 28
Feats Arcane Armor Training, Dodge[M], Eldritch Heritage[UM], Eschew Materials, Mobility, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Knowledge [planes]), Spring Attack
Traits armor expert, seeker
Skills Acrobatics +0 (-4 to jump), Appraise +6, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Escape Artist +4, Fly +4, Handle Animal +6, Heal +4, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (arcana) +10, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (engineering) +6, Knowledge (geography) +6, Knowledge (history) +6, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (nobility) +6, Knowledge (planes) +11, Knowledge (religion) +6, Perception +14, Ride +8, Sense Motive +13, Spellcraft +6
Languages Common, Draconic, Elven
SQ amazing initiative, bloodline arcana (energy spells that match bloodline energy deal +1 damage per die), divine bond (mount), hero points, lay on hands 4/day (2d6), legendary item[MA], legendary power, legendary surge, mercy (fatigued), mythic bond, mythic spellcasting[MA], sudden block[MA], undetectable, unyielding
Combat Gear ring of invisibility; Other Gear +2 restful mithral full plate, Legendary adamantine scimitar, page of spell knowledge (rope trick)[UE], 150 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Amazing Initiative (1/round) (Ex) As a free action, use 1 power to gain an extra standard action (can't be used to cast a spell).
Animal Companion Link (Ex) Handle or push Animal Companion faster, +4 to checks vs. them.
Arcane Armor Training Swift action: -10% arcane spell failure due to armor.
Aura of Courage +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. fear.
Bloodline Arcana: Draconic (Ex) +1 damage per die for [Fire] spells.
Breath Weapon (1/day, DC 14) (Su) 1/day, Breath Weapon deals 4d6 (energy) damage, DC 14.
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Dodge [Mythic] Use 1 power to gain a +10 dodge bonus against one attack.
Dragon Bite (Ex) Bite atacks deal 1d6 damage
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Hard to Kill (Ex) Automatically stabilize when dying, and only die at neg Con x 2.
Hero Points Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Lay on Hands (2d6 hit points, 4/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Legendary Power (2/day) All legendary items contain a pool of power - at least two uses that recharge each day. This power is called legendary power, and it works differently than mythic power. Any creature bearing the item can expend the items uses of legendary power, whet
Legendary Surge (+1d6 to Attack Rolls - All, Combat Maneuver Checks) All legendary items have a legendary surge ability, similar to a mythic character's surge ability (see page 170). It can be used only on specific rolls or checks based on the nature or purpose of the legendary item - see the Legendary Surge sidebar o
Magic Claws & Bite (5 rounds/day) (Ex) As a free action, gain 2 claw attacks. Bite attack deals 1d6 damage.
Magic Claws (5 rounds/day) (Ex) As a free action, gain 2 claw attacks that bypass DR as magic weapons.
Mercy (Fatigued) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the fatigued condition.
Mobility +4 to AC vs. AoO provoked by moving out of or through a threatened area.
Mythic Bond A legendary item is typically bonded to a single mythic creature. Others can pick up and use a legendary item for its basic functions (like hitting a foe with a legendary mace), but only the creature bonded to the item can utilize it fully.

A myth
Paladin Channel Positive Energy 3d6 (2/day, DC 14) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Share Spells with Companion (Ex) Can cast spells with a target of "you" on animal companion, as touch spells.
Smite Evil (2/day) (Su) +2 to hit, +5 to damage, +2 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Spring Attack You can move - attack - move when attacking with a melee weapon.
Sudden Block (Su) As an imm action, use 1 power to add +2 to own/adj ally AC vs. a melee att & foe must rolls 2x (take low). Make return att (bypass all DR).
Surge (1d6) (Su) Use 1 power to increase any d20 roll by the listed amount.
Undetectable This grants its bonded user the ability to become utterly undetectable while invisible. While invisible and in physical contact with this item, the bonded creature can't be detected or scryed by any method.
Unyielding A legendary item with this ability has double the hardness of a typical item of its type and triple the hit points. Furthermore, it's immune to all attempts to sunder it made by non-mythic creatures. This is a persistent ability.

--------------------

Animal Companion
Horse
N Large animal
Init +2; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +6
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 11, flat-footed 15 (+2 Dex, +6 natural, -1 size)
hp 55 (5d8+15)
Fort +7, Ref +6, Will +2
Defensive Abilities evasion
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 60 ft.
Melee bite +7 (1d4+5), 2 hooves +2 (1d6+2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 20, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 6
Base Atk +3; CMB +9; CMD 21 (25 vs. trip)
Feats Fleet, Fleet, Run
Tricks Air Walk, Attack, Combat Riding, Come, Defend, Down, Guard, Heel
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+10 to jump with a running start, +18 to jump), Fly +4, Perception +6, Swim +9
SQ air walk, combat riding
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Air Walk [Trick] The animal can be ridden through the air when affected by spells.
Combat Riding [Trick] The animal has been trained to bear a rider into combat.
Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Run Run 5x your speed in light/medium armor or 4x speed in heavy armor and keep Dex when running.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

I think I'm going to make a "please review"
Thread for my new guy. I don't really know how to play a fighter or a gish


It's a one trick pony. If you're willing to give up basically everything else to get the one trick then go for it. Else, hard pass.


Dave Justus wrote:

I personally would absolutely not allow that trap rules for anything that wasn't a trap. While those rules do exist, expect either your DM to disallow them, or (which might be worse) have the NPCs use such things too.

The second will dramatically change the nature of the game, and in a way that is less fun in my opinion (as does just letting PCs use them)

Basically though, defending your keep is sort of a Red Queens Race problem. If the DM wants you to have encounters that threaten you in the keep, or threaten the keep itself, he will. If you up the defenses, he will just up the threat to counter them. That is sort of the nature of plot.

That said, I wouldn't ignore defenses, I would simply make sure I kept them at a reasonable baseline as I leveled up. If the party has spells that can help (things like Hallow for example) I would make sure to employ them as they came available. I would spend a reasonable percentage (maybe 25 or so) of building resource on defensive type things, make sure their was some sort of guard, and things like that. Basically try to keep the defenses as more or less baseline for the size of the structure and the wealth of those that live there, not trying to 'break' things, but also not inviting attack.

That will let your GM come up with reasonable (and hopefully fun) challenges centered around your keep.

Again, Trap rules by RAW. The DM is as always welcome to change thing as he/she pleases.


Oddly enough, Bard. They get some bonuses based on specialty.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
thejeff wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
As a complete aside, I'd have to carefully weigh the "one person dies" thing. Probably could still morally justify it, but it'd be harder. I also don't think I could do it if I had to kill the person: not only because of the fat guy/train scenario (though there's that), but also because of the fact that I'm not super healthy...

As I hinted above, it's both much easier to justify morally and practically if I can just designate someone: say a clear mass murderer on Death Row or some known terrorist higher up.

I'd be much less happy with either "Some random person will die." or "You have to kill them yourself", since my access to and ability to kill people I'd be fine with seeing die is very limited.

I'm a pragmatist. If I'm being truly honest with myself I could do it if:

Now before I get called a sociopath you have to

...

In retrospect I've removed the post. It's not a reasonable conversation to have.

Though I'm not really understanding what you're trying to convey you're correct in that the end result is selfish. The overall arcing discussion has to do with the ends justifying the means. Once I get this selfish thing (immortality), I'll be able to (though not forced to) do good with it.

As this is a totally fantastical thing that will never actually happen, it makes agreeing to do so at any cost much more justifiable. It's distinctly possible that i'd feel very very different if I were in the moment.


TPK wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
TPK wrote:
I would like to read more about this for some places I am designing. Tiny Coffee Golem where is the deep discount written up for MI that are immobile? Thanks

"Discount" might not be the right word. I just meant it's cheaper than a mobile magic item that does the same.

It's an as written use of the magic traps mechanic. The basic premise is that there's nothing that inherently says magic traps must be harmful.

The cost for an auto resetting magic trap is : +500 gp × caster level × spell level

The cost for an at will magic item is: +2000 gp × caster level × spell level

Wow, that is mighty interesting! Pretty cool ideas are now rolling around in my head! Thanks

Anytime. :-)


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Polymorph any object. It's so versatile.


TPK wrote:
I would like to read more about this for some places I am designing. Tiny Coffee Golem where is the deep discount written up for MI that are immobile? Thanks

"Discount" might not be the right word. I just meant it's cheaper than a mobile magic item that does the same.

It's an as written use of the magic traps mechanic. The basic premise is that there's nothing that inherently says magic traps must be harmful.

The cost for an auto resetting magic trap is : +500 gp × caster level × spell level

The cost for an at will magic item is: +2000 gp × caster level × spell level


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Irontruth wrote:

Am I the only one in existence and no one else has magical abilities?

If so, I'd totally become an undead monster to effect the change that I want on the world. I'd probably start with destroying all ammunition mass manufacturing.

For sake of argument lets say you don't know either way.


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Cole Deschain wrote:
The last thing we need is my personality in an undying, super-powered body with access to the secrets of the universe without having had to go to the trouble of learning the hows and whys. Pass.

You just described exactly why I would. :-)


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For all the would-be Liches who'd like to appear human and not auto-kill/fear people.

Daywalker


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

Added mythic abilities and a few magic items. Not 100% done, but close-ish I think.

Mythic Simon:

Simon Demarkus
Human dragon disciple 4/paladin 5/sorcerer 1/Guardian 2
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Hero Points 1
Init +4; Senses Perception +14
Aura courage (10 ft.)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 28, touch 14, flat-footed 24 (+11 armor, +2 Dex, +2 dodge, +3 natural)
hp 92 (10 HD; 1d6+5d10+4d12+35)
Fort +10, Ref +6, Will +10
Defensive Abilities hard to kill; Immune disease, fear
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee Legendary adamantine scimitar +15/+10 (1d6+6/18-20) or
bite +9 (1d6+9), 2 claws +14 (1d4+8)
Special Attacks breath weapon, channel positive energy 2/day (DC 14, 3d6), claws (2, 1d4, treated as magic weapons, 5 rounds/day), claws (2, 1d6, treated as magic weapons, 5 rounds/day), dragon bite, mythic power (7/day, surge +1d6), smite evil 2/day (+2 attack and AC, +5 damage)
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th; concentration +7)
At will—detect evil
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 4th; concentration +6)
2nd (4/day)—false life, resist energy, rope trick
1st (7/day)—enlarge person (DC 13), feather fall[M], mage armor, true strike[M]
0 (at will)—detect magic, disrupt undead, mending, message, open/close (DC 12), prestidigitation
Bloodline Abyssal, Draconic
Paladin Spells Prepared (CL 2nd; concentration +4)
1st—divine favor, weapons against evil
M mythic spell
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 23, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 15
Base Atk +8; CMB +14; CMD 28
Feats Arcane Armor Training, Dodge[M], Eldritch Heritage[UM], Eschew Materials, Mobility, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Knowledge [planes]), Spring Attack
Traits armor expert, seeker
Skills Acrobatics +0 (-4 to jump), Appraise +6, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Escape Artist +4, Fly +4, Handle Animal +6, Heal +4, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (arcana) +10, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (engineering) +6, Knowledge (geography) +6, Knowledge (history) +6, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (nobility) +6, Knowledge (planes) +11, Knowledge (religion) +6, Perception +14, Ride +8, Sense Motive +13, Spellcraft +6
Languages Common, Draconic, Elven
SQ amazing initiative, bloodline arcana (energy spells that match bloodline energy deal +1 damage per die), divine bond (mount), hero points, lay on hands 4/day (2d6), legendary item[MA], legendary power, legendary surge, mercy (fatigued), mythic bond, mythic spellcasting[MA], sudden block[MA], undetectable, unyielding
Combat Gear ring of invisibility; Other Gear +2 restful mithral full plate, Legendary adamantine scimitar, page of spell knowledge (rope trick)[UE], 150 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Amazing Initiative (1/round) (Ex) As a free action, use 1 power to gain an extra standard action (can't be used to cast a spell).
Animal Companion Link (Ex) Handle or push Animal Companion faster, +4 to checks vs. them.
Arcane Armor Training Swift action: -10% arcane spell failure due to armor.
Aura of Courage +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. fear.
Bloodline Arcana: Draconic (Ex) +1 damage per die for [Fire] spells.
Breath Weapon (1/day, DC 14) (Su) 1/day, Breath Weapon deals 4d6 (energy) damage, DC 14.
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Dodge [Mythic] Use 1 power to gain a +10 dodge bonus against one attack.
Dragon Bite (Ex) Bite atacks deal 1d6 damage
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Hard to Kill (Ex) Automatically stabilize when dying, and only die at neg Con x 2.
Hero Points Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Lay on Hands (2d6 hit points, 4/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Legendary Power (2/day) All legendary items contain a pool of power - at least two uses that recharge each day. This power is called legendary power, and it works differently than mythic power. Any creature bearing the item can expend the items uses of legendary power, whet
Legendary Surge (+1d6 to Attack Rolls - All, Combat Maneuver Checks) All legendary items have a legendary surge ability, similar to a mythic character's surge ability (see page 170). It can be used only on specific rolls or checks based on the nature or purpose of the legendary item - see the Legendary Surge sidebar o
Magic Claws & Bite (5 rounds/day) (Ex) As a free action, gain 2 claw attacks. Bite attack deals 1d6 damage.
Magic Claws (5 rounds/day) (Ex) As a free action, gain 2 claw attacks that bypass DR as magic weapons.
Mercy (Fatigued) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the fatigued condition.
Mobility +4 to AC vs. AoO provoked by moving out of or through a threatened area.
Mythic Bond A legendary item is typically bonded to a single mythic creature. Others can pick up and use a legendary item for its basic functions (like hitting a foe with a legendary mace), but only the creature bonded to the item can utilize it fully.

A myth
Paladin Channel Positive Energy 3d6 (2/day, DC 14) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Share Spells with Companion (Ex) Can cast spells with a target of "you" on animal companion, as touch spells.
Smite Evil (2/day) (Su) +2 to hit, +5 to damage, +2 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Spring Attack You can move - attack - move when attacking with a melee weapon.
Sudden Block (Su) As an imm action, use 1 power to add +2 to own/adj ally AC vs. a melee att & foe must rolls 2x (take low). Make return att (bypass all DR).
Surge (1d6) (Su) Use 1 power to increase any d20 roll by the listed amount.
Undetectable This grants its bonded user the ability to become utterly undetectable while invisible. While invisible and in physical contact with this item, the bonded creature can't be detected or scryed by any method.
Unyielding A legendary item with this ability has double the hardness of a typical item of its type and triple the hit points. Furthermore, it's immune to all attempts to sunder it made by non-mythic creatures. This is a persistent ability.

--------------------

Animal Companion
Horse
N Large animal
Init +2; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +6
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 11, flat-footed 15 (+2 Dex, +6 natural, -1 size)
hp 55 (5d8+15)
Fort +7, Ref +6, Will +2
Defensive Abilities evasion
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 60 ft.
Melee bite +7 (1d4+5), 2 hooves +2 (1d6+2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 20, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 6
Base Atk +3; CMB +9; CMD 21 (25 vs. trip)
Feats Fleet, Fleet, Run
Tricks Air Walk, Attack, Combat Riding, Come, Defend, Down, Guard, Heel
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+10 to jump with a running start, +18 to jump), Fly +4, Perception +6, Swim +9
SQ air walk, combat riding
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Air Walk [Trick] The animal can be ridden through the air when affected by spells.
Combat Riding [Trick] The animal has been trained to bear a rider into combat.
Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Run Run 5x your speed in light/medium armor or 4x speed in heavy armor and keep Dex when running.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.


Ok, so we're not talking about a full castle with walls and such.

If the surrounding area is also yours it wouldn't be a bad idea to build up some walls with guard towers and such. A very "old school" approach, but classic for a reason.

I'm going to assume between your casters you can access a lot of stuff. However, if you're limited to 6th level casting then your options are limited.

Random thoughts with <3 level spells

Enter Image: This is one of my favorite "base" spells. basically you have a lot of images of yourself. Either in the form of paintings, busts, faces cleverly worked into the stone so that they're not immediately recognizable unless you really look, etc. Put these non-magic things everywhere within range in and around the keep. Then if the place is attacked one person can scan the area to provide real world intel to the war room.

Shrink Item: can store large things for 1d/ CL. Would require recasting/maintenance, but still useful to have some boulders to drop on people, etc.

Secret rooms only accessible by use of Gaseous Form. An easy low-magic way to protect anything that you can carry.

Burrow: Again, good for hiding things or simply running away.

Animate Dead, Lesser: Always useful to have a horde of skeletons to unleash. I'd keep them in a locked secure area until you need them. Like a pen or stone room. Then you can just open the gate from a safe location and let them wreak havoc upon your enemies. They wouldn't necessarily even need to be under your control. Just let them run and follow their instincts of killing anything living. You'd be safely ensconced in the keep of course. Naturally, there may be some cleanup after, but these things happen.

Major Image: Put your face in the sky and speak directly to the opposing force or just make public announcements.

Spherescry: keep a few in hidden locations all over the keep. Then you can eavesdrop whenever you like on whomever may be around. Also good for verifying nobody is inside waiting to kill you when you get home.

Guardian Monument series : Useful if you're humans.

The mental version of alarm will wake you up without alerting your enemies.

There are a lot that are self explanatory, such as Lock and fireball, that I won't get into for obvious reasons.

A bit too high level for you, but Invisibility can be cast on objects and made permanent. Cast on a section of stone, for example, and you basically have an unbreakable window.

Then of course if you can make beneficial spell traps your list of useful spells goes up dramatically. A greater magic weapon trap of sufficient caster level and all your guards effectively have +5 swords, for example.


What classes and level is your party? Your available options will vary wildly based on that.

General advice, if you have any casters I highly recommend craft wondrous item so that you can make custom magic items for your keep. If your DM follows RAW then you'll be able to make immobile wondrous items for the keep at a deep discount. This is basically taking advantage of the "trap" rules and making beneficial "traps." Is it cheese? Probably, but personally I like it. In my mind theres a significant difference between an orb of storms (or whatever) that you can carry around versus one that's permanently attached to an immobile structure.

Edit: Also, how large of a structure are we talking and what's the surrounding area like?


Jiggy wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Your body moves around, but that's it.

If that's an insufficient answer I'm going to need you to clarify what part is unclear because I'm not understanding the confusion.

Well, look at some of your comments so far, talking as though you're shocked that people would so readily accept becoming a "horrible undead monster" and offering reminders to the effect of "but you're still dead!" and so forth.

So clearly there's something which, in your mind, is inherently part of being undead and is presumably objectionable in some way, to such a degree as to be worth commenting on when somebody's okay with it.

But the things that immediately come to mind when speaking of "undeath" are things like a skeletal visage, various forms of evilness (like eating the living or whatever), and no longer really being yourself.

But you took all that away, so unless you're having trouble keeping track of your own proposition, those aren't the things you're reacting to.

So let me frame my question this way: what are all the aspects of undeath that you're surprised to see people so readily accept?

Well, I rather like my biology, warts and all (so to speak). Your endocrine system alone is an amazing thing. I guess the biggest objection would be the nervous system. No real feeling to speak of without magic aid. The things we all find pleasure in would basically no longer be fun.

Also, there's the bigger question that if you're dead are you still really human?

My potential objections fall into the hypothetical philosophy realm. Questions we can't really answer because it's fantasy.

It's just a thought experiment. Just know what there will be objections to being dead even if there are no other indications of it. It's not important that one understands everyone else's objections. Just understand that many will think differently than you. That's why I asked the question.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Funny how many people don't see being a horrible undead monster as a bad thing just because getting their was slightly easier.

Keep in mind it's not a temporary character. Its you. Right now. And its forever

Or until you get destroyed. The other interesting part of this question is that it impugns the existence of an afterlife, which I as an atheist am a through disbeliever in.

Now if there were such a thing as an afterlife, that would be something that I'd have to factor in my decision. However I'm a firm believer in the idea of the Price of Magic, so I'd never be able to accept the concept that there would be no strings attached.

And as Xykon has shown, there are quality of life issues as well. (an enternity without coffee?!)

I too am atheist and don't believe in an afterlife, but the scenario doesn't necessarily disprove one. It just prevents you from dying. What happens after that, if anything, is still unknown. You could spend your eternity determining if there is an afterlife. Though I can see how that could go down a dark road very quickly.

No coffee would be a serious problem for me too. Though I think Xykon is choosing not to look for alternatives. He's a pragmatist. Well, a sociopath pragmatist, but still.

If there isn't an afterlife, how can there be a soul to bargain away?

Good point. Perhaps it's just a matter of language. "Soul" might just be another name for life force or that spark that makes us unique. It may not go anywhere after death. Perhaps it just "reabsorbs" into "the universe." It'd be a good thing to spend your unlife researching.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
captain yesterday wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Acquire an NFL team.
Go sit in the corner.
Why, it's a relevant career choice for an all powerful undead.

*points to corner*

*:

:-)


Jiggy wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
I would definitely need to know exactly what it means to "be undead" in the context of this world. The OP's premise already takes away the auto-evil part, which I think is perhaps(?) the biggest component of why lichdom is generally considered objectionable.
You're a walking corpse, but otherwise you are yourself. In this case it's more a matter of how your body functions and not your mind. I'm very certain that most people would choose to be an extremely well preserved corpse as to continue to appear human. However, this doesn't change the fact that you're dead.

Okay, so I'm normal-looking, still myself, and I'm up and walking around, but "this doesn't change the fact that you're dead". You now need to define "dead", because you've just removed most of what it actually means.

Your body moves around, but that's it. My assumption is that people take steps to prevent themselves from further decaying. 1/d preserve corpse or the like. With 11th level casting there are a lot of options.

If that's an insufficient answer I'm going to need you to clarify what part is unclear because I'm not understanding the confusion.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm so glad everyone is catching on. :-)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jiggy wrote:
I would definitely need to know exactly what it means to "be undead" in the context of this world. The OP's premise already takes away the auto-evil part, which I think is perhaps(?) the biggest component of why lichdom is generally considered objectionable.

You're a walking corpse, but otherwise you are yourself. In this case it's more a matter of how your body functions and not your mind. I'm very certain that most people would choose to be an extremely well preserved corpse as to continue to appear human. However, this doesn't change the fact that you're dead.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Funny how many people don't see being a horrible undead monster as a bad thing just because getting their was slightly easier.

Keep in mind it's not a temporary character. Its you. Right now. And its forever

Or until you get destroyed. The other interesting part of this question is that it impugns the existence of an afterlife, which I as an atheist am a through disbeliever in.

Now if there were such a thing as an afterlife, that would be something that I'd have to factor in my decision. However I'm a firm believer in the idea of the Price of Magic, so I'd never be able to accept the concept that there would be no strings attached.

And as Xykon has shown, there are quality of life issues as well. (an enternity without coffee?!)

I too am atheist and don't believe in an afterlife, but the scenario doesn't necessarily disprove one. It just prevents you from dying. What happens after that, if anything, is still unknown. You could spend your eternity determining if there is an afterlife. Though I can see how that could go down a dark road very quickly.

No coffee would be a serious problem for me too. Though I think Xykon is choosing not to look for alternatives. He's a pragmatist. Well, a sociopath pragmatist, but still.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
captain yesterday wrote:
Acquire an NFL team.

Go sit in the corner.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Personally, I think my answer would be Yes. Though the first thing I'd do is find a way to enjoy mortal pleasures again. Poly morph any object would probably do it, but since it's above my casting level at the moment it may take some time. In the mean time I'd find another, perhaps less efficient, work around. Maybe a custom magic item that I can switch on and off. Without food and sex i'd personally have an existential crisis and wonder what the point of it all is.

Then of course that gives me all the time in the world to study magic and improve my casting (I.E. Gain more levels in Wizard in my case.)

In between study sessions I would try to make the world a better place. How exactly would depend. I think make as many world leaders as possible my thralls. Maybe create a demiplane haven to ensure humankind's survival. Like a magic ark of a sort. Or just use my magic to colonize mars and re-engineer human culture to not be so self destructive. Maybe all three or more. I'm going to have a lot of time and hobbies are going to be important.

Edit: Then once I've ensured humans aren't going to totally wipe themselves out (or given up on that hopeless idea) I'd explore the universe. By this point hopefully i'd have 9th level spells. Liches are perfect for space exploration as they're very durable and don't breathe. Leave your phalactry somewhere safe. Interplanetary teleport somewhere. Take notes, samples, pictures, etc. Then if something did kill you you'd reform back in your safe place. I'd just avoid carrying anything fragile or difficult to replace.


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NobodysHome wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
AdrastusDarke wrote:
Yes, so long as I would not become evil I would accept that deal 100%. I would give up, food, sex and the joy of a good sneeze in exchange for the power to fix 90% of the worlds problems.
Not inherently in the beginning. However, in your quest to fix the world you may become evil. That depends more on you. Some of histories greatest atrocities were committed with the best intentions.
Are we talking about Justin Bieber again?

Good point. Because you're so powerful would you murder the Biebs just because he annoys you? I'd like to think my answer is "no," but i cant say that with 100% certainty.


AdrastusDarke wrote:
Yes, so long as I would not become evil I would accept that deal 100%. I would give up, food, sex and the joy of a good sneeze in exchange for the power to fix 90% of the worlds problems.

Not inherently in the beginning. However, in your quest to fix the world you may become evil. That depends more on you. Some of histories greatest atrocities were committed with the best intentions.


Wszebor Uriev wrote:

Done. Where do I sign?

Oh, I'm not inherently CE either? Sure, I'll still do it ;)

You might be. Just depends on what your current mind set is.


Pan wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Funny how many people don't see being a horrible undead monster as a bad thing just because getting their was slightly easier.

Keep in mind it's not a temporary character. Its you. Right now. And its forever

Yeap, thought about it. The answer is still yes! I mean you could do a world of good with the powers of a lich, and since you are not evil you are actually a groovy undead monster instead.

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Well, you're dead for starters. Some may consider that a downside.

no nerve endings or biology or any of the fun things that come with it (sex, food, etc).

The only downside I removed was the need to do something inherently evil to begin with and the part where you automatically kill people by touch or frighten them by your presence.

Well, now you include some downsides to consider. Still you should say yes with all the good you could do for your loved ones and the world at large.

You'd be a horrible monster, but not necessarily evil...at first.

You seem to be taking the "greater good" philosophy. You'd be a horrible undead (not necessarily evil) monster and use that to help others. thats valid


NobodysHome wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

I think the difficulty here is that you've removed all repercussions: My appearance is up to me, my alignment doesn't shift, etc. What, precisely, is the downside, if any?

It seems like you're asking, "Would you accept immortality, nigh-indestructibility, and the ability to cast spells in exchange for... nothing?"

In that particular case, I think it's impossible to say, "No," unless you feel that being a lich would be inherently anathema to your religion.

So perhaps you can clarify the downside. If my appearance isn't affected, and I can still pass for human in every way imaginable, and my alignment doesn't shift, so my soul isn't affected, either, it seems like this question is really, "Would you accept being far more powerful than you are right now with no repercussions whatsoever?"

The answer is an obvious, "Sure, why not?"

So perhaps you might clarify what's negative about this situation...

EDIT: I mean, seriously, even a, "You have no negative effects whatsoever for as long as you exist, but your soul would be damned once you were destroyed" would be enough for me to say, "Thanks, but no thanks."
But as-written, I just don't see a downside.

Well, you're dead for starters. Some may consider that a downside.

no nerve endings or biology or any of the fun things that come with it (sex, food, etc).

The only downside I removed was the need to do something inherently evil to begin with and the part where you automatically kill people by touch or frighten them by your presence.

Thanks for the clarification, because even that gives me pause. I'm quite the foodie. Would I give up ever being able to enjoy a good meal again? Enjoy the company of the opposite sex?

That's a much deeper question, and gives me far more pause.

I'll have to think about that one.

The whole, "the specifics are up to you. Preservation, appearance, etc." implied to me that I could still fundamentally pass as human, and enjoy all the...

Well, you can look human, but you're still a walking corpse.


I guess nobody cares about anything that's not specifically a game mechanic. Lichdom all around! Huzzah!


QuidEst wrote:
Well, you also removed the evil alignment that comes part and parcel with being undead. When you consider how much good could be accomplished with 11th level casting, and how many of the disadvantages could be removed (extended Alter Self takes care of all those pesky biology issues, for one), there's not a whole lot of incentive to take a pass.

I disregarded alignment because it's difficult to quantify IRL, but sure. My point with that was supposed to be that you are still you after the transformation.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
NobodysHome wrote:

I think the difficulty here is that you've removed all repercussions: My appearance is up to me, my alignment doesn't shift, etc. What, precisely, is the downside, if any?

It seems like you're asking, "Would you accept immortality, nigh-indestructibility, and the ability to cast spells in exchange for... nothing?"

In that particular case, I think it's impossible to say, "No," unless you feel that being a lich would be inherently anathema to your religion.

So perhaps you can clarify the downside. If my appearance isn't affected, and I can still pass for human in every way imaginable, and my alignment doesn't shift, so my soul isn't affected, either, it seems like this question is really, "Would you accept being far more powerful than you are right now with no repercussions whatsoever?"

The answer is an obvious, "Sure, why not?"

So perhaps you might clarify what's negative about this situation...

EDIT: I mean, seriously, even a, "You have no negative effects whatsoever for as long as you exist, but your soul would be damned once you were destroyed" would be enough for me to say, "Thanks, but no thanks."
But as-written, I just don't see a downside.

Well, you're dead for starters. Some may consider that a downside.

no nerve endings or biology or any of the fun things that come with it (sex, food, etc).

The only downside I removed was the need to do something inherently evil to begin with and the part where you automatically kill people by touch or frighten them by your presence.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Funny how many people don't see being a horrible undead monster as a bad thing just because getting their was slightly easier.

Keep in mind it's not a temporary character. Its you. Right now. And its forever


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You, right now, in your real life on earth are approached in private by someone who does something to convince you beyond all doubt that he's legit. This stranger offers you a choice without any repercussions beyond the terms of the agreement. It's not a devils bargain wherein you get what you want, but they keep your soul or any such shenanigans.

You're given an amulet. Press your palm to it and you're given a suite of things.

1) You become a lich instantly, though the specifics are up to you. Preservation, appearance, etc. Also, you have the added ability to suppress/resume any inherently dangerous abilities, such as fear aura and negative energy touch. The amulet transforms into your Phylactery, but you can transmogrify it to fit your personal preference. Note: I don't care for alignment requirements in general, so lets say your personality doesn't inherently shift to evil. After you're free to behave as you wish.

2)You're instantly granted 11th level casting and craft wondrous item, the other specifics of which are up to you. If your casting class has a book you're granted one with an appropriate amount and type of spells in it.

Think about it a moment and be honest with yourself.

Do you do it?

Once you have completed your initial transformation what do you do initially then in the long term?


Please add another "no" to the pile. It's amorphous energy that can only do the things listed.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20
Anaxian, the Fractured Wyrm wrote:
Little ceramic tiles with Explosive Runes cast on them would work well.

Those have to be read or dispelled in order to go off. However, they'd make nice little land mines-ish for you to leave in your wake.


I'd check for stuff about the Whispering Way. That's the big Necromancer death cult in Pathfinder.

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