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Tiny Coffee Golem's page

9,230 posts. Alias of wesF.


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What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20
Monkeygod wrote:
Definitely interested. Thanks for the invite!

Any thoughts on what you want to play?


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

FYI: Details for the setting and such to follow. Just getting the ball rolling with the mini-intro.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

Character creation:

Any backstories need to take place wholly on this island. Beyond that i'm very lenient on the guidelines. Region specific traits can be used, but the fluff should be reworked to take place on the island.

Please make a level 1 character for a prelude game and a level 5 character for the real game. The difference between level 1 and 5 will be through training. The entirely of this time is study and practice on the island. Things will change after that.

25 Pt buy as you represent the best of the best in your respective profession(s).

For the level 1 you have any basic gear that you need, but "money" doesn't really exist on the island. There is a general store where everything is free and you're expected to just take what you need. As there's nowhere to sell anything using this for profit is not possible.

For the level 5 gear yourself up appropriate for that level's Wealth by level, but the method of getting it isn't going to be purchasing it. Any mundane gear will be free. Just keep in mind your carrying capacity.

I want to use this thread to refine your ideas before building the gaming thread. however, once everyone has the level 1's built i'll get the ball rolling before the level 5's are finished.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

Disclaimer: If you've stumbled upon this thread randomly please know that this game is specifically for a few friend I know IRL and maybe a couple of specific virtual friends. Please don't take it personally. I'm sure you're a great player, but this is not a public game. Though if you like the story feel free to read along. Thank you in advance for your understanding and cooperation. Good gaming.

Hi Guys,

I've decided to try my hand at DMing. I'm a long time player, but have minimal experience with being the Dungeon Master. However, I had an idea for a campaign setting and at least an initial story arc. I figured PBP would be a good way to get a little practice. I have no preconceived notions on how long this game will last, but i imagine we'll keep going as long as it keeps being fun.

House rules: As I don't DM much I don't have a specific set of house rules, but I do have a few ideas. If something else occurs to me later i'll incorporate it in a fair way. For example if it changes something about your character I'll replace it with something you'll be happy with. Also, if you have any specific house rules you've used and liked in the past i'm open to discussion about incorporating it.
At the moment the only thing that comes to mind is a couple of "free" feats. To simplify things I'm just going to give everyone the following feats:
- Weapon Finess
- Heighten Spell

Setting: I'll get into more detail in the game, but for the moment here are some details for the purposes of character creation. It may sound strange as a player, but keep in mind this is what your player knows and it all seems perfectly normal.

You live on an idillic but quite large island. Everyone you know has always lived on the island for as long as anyone can remember. Any knowledge of the world at large comes from books and stories. It's a small hamlet of about 500 people. Overall the community is Neutral. There are some people on the extremes, but basically the ruling body keeps everyone cooperative at minimum. The town itself is not huge, but it is well established. Most homes are stone and the quality of life is higher than one would expect for such a rural place.

There are 5 nobel houses which act as both specialists schools (wizardry, clerical, Martial, (TBD)) and ruling bodies. There is some healthy rivalry, but each of the houses understands their purpose for the greater good. This keeps them overall cooperative. There is quite a bit of Nepotism in these houses, but if an individual from one house or the nearby village shows talent in the specialty of the specialty fields they are adopted into the new house if they wish for further training/prestige. Each house has rather extensive grounds for training and other activities.

Outside of the village/houses area there is a large wooded area filled with a number of kinds of wild animals. Most are game animals, but there are an appropriate number of predators. Further past that is a tall snow capped mountain. The island as a whole has a surprising (to players, but again this is normal as far as characters know) number of ecosystems. All of which are maintained by a secretive order of druids.

The villagers, farm, hunt, etc as one would expect for a village. However, this island has what are colloquially called "wooden men" to do most of the manual labor. These are human shaped animated objects made of lacquered preserved wood that have a specific set of instructions "hard coded" into them. Basically they follow any instructions given to them regarding work, but will ignore any dangerous or violent instructions. They've been known to allow themselves to be harmed to protect the towns population. Beyond that their origins are unknown. You're just as likely to see them in fields being watched over by a farmer as you are to see one following a lady carrying packages. They are silent, docile, and mostly obedient. Basically perfect servants.


MageHunter wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
GM Rednal wrote:
A couple of letters stored in a safe-deposit box at the Bank of Abadar, with instructions for how and when to send them?
That's a much better idea. I'm sure the bank/church is both highly secure and under some form of divine protection.
You could always sell it to a Devil instead. They'd pay handsomely.

Fair point. Angels are too ready to be martyrs. Let's assume for a moment that it's something other than a planetar.


Actually, now that you mention it something similar with leadership will do it.


GM Rednal wrote:
A couple of letters stored in a safe-deposit box at the Bank of Abadar, with instructions for how and when to send them?

That's a much better idea. I'm sure the bank/church is both highly secure and under some form of divine protection.


Good ideas all.

On the flip side I have another question, though not specifically related to the planetar. This could easily be for a neutral or evil creature.

Lets say that diplomacy fails for some reason and you need to push a little harder. Something to the effect of "do what I say or I'll make sure everyone knows your true name."

How would you guarantee that the true name get disseminated around the globe/multiverse should anything happen to you? Some sort of secret timer that goes off should if you don't "hit the button" every so often.

Right now I've got some ideas having to do with multiple simulacra with mind blank and standing orders. There's got to be a better way though.

Maybe a demiplane, created initially high above a densely populated city, protected from scrying and filled with strips of paper with the true name on it. If the timer for that demiplane runs out then everything in the demiplane gets shunted to where the deimplane was initially created. End result is that you have to reset that demiplane every X days or everyone in that city will know the true name of the outsider via true name confetti.

Any other thoughts?


Samasboy1 wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Samasboy1 wrote:
You could retrain your selection of Truename with the now dead outsider, to Truename with a different chosen outsider....?
Is this legal?

Well, you can retrain feats and class features. Arcane Discovers are class features, and can be taken in place of a feat. So I don't see a problem....

YMMV

Cool. That'll do.


Klorox wrote:
don't outsiders summoned to the mortal plane die only in their mortal plane form and simply return to their plane frome where they can be summoned again? I know for fact this was the case in 3.5, but I don't know the rules for outsiders in PF.

Summoned, yes. However, conjuration has Summoning and Calling effects.

With summoning you bring a shadow of them, for lack of better words, for a short time and once dead they return to their home plane.

With Calling effects you physically bring them to where you are body and soul. This means the spell has no time limit.


I appreciate any responses, but i'd prefer if they were related to the question that was asked.


To reduce confusion here's the whole write up

True Name:

Prerequisite: You must be at least an 11th-level Wizard to select this discovery.

Benefit: Your researches into ancient tomes and your inquisitions of bound spirits have led you to one of the best-hidden secrets of the multiverse: the true name of an outsider—the name that defines the very essence of the creature and that gives the speaker control over the being. This outsider can have no more than 12 Hit Dice. Once per day, you can speak the common name by which the outsider is known, and the outsider travels to you as if you had cast planar binding upon it. It must obey you to the best of its ability, without pay or bargaining for its services, for its fear that you might release its true name to the wider world is enough to bring even the most recalcitrant of outsiders to bear.

If the creature is within 100 feet, as a move action, you may punish it by deliberately mispronouncing its name, wracking its very essence and giving it the sickened and staggered conditions for 1 round (even if the creature is normally immune to these conditions). You cannot use true name in an area of silence, but the creature does not have to be able to hear you for it to be harmed by the ability.

It is in your best interest to call this creature only sparingly, and occasionally reward it in some fashion to mollify its wrath. If you repeatedly fail to offer it a reward appropriate to its type and ethos, the creature may begin plotting ways to destroy the bond between you, whether by creating an accident that will destroy your memory of the name, by plaguing you with nuisances or dangers until you vow never to call on it again, or by actively seeking to destroy you through its own devices or those of an underling. If this creature is of a lawful type and you are violating its ethos, its superiors may even destroy it or you rather than allow you to contaminate their servant further. Worse, they may establish situations where it is necessary for you to summon this outsider, opening gateways to infernal or angelic interference, in order to gain a foothold on the Material Plane.

This is a spell-like ability.

Special: You may select this discovery multiple times. Each time you select this discovery, it applies to a different, specific outsider. If you select this discovery at 15th level or higher, the creature may have up to 18 Hit Dice and the call acts as greater planar binding instead of planar binding.


QuidEst wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Daw wrote:
I recommend you slap your GM in the face for incompetence, and head out to a movie.
What? Why? It's a perfectly legal thing to take.
12 HD cap. A planetar is cheating at 17 HD.

Unless you're 15th level.

Special: You may select this discovery multiple times. Each time you select this discovery, it applies to a different, specific outsider. If you select this discovery at 15th level or higher, the creature may have up to 18 Hit Dice and the call acts as greater planar binding instead of planar binding.


Daw wrote:
I recommend you slap your GM in the face for incompetence, and head out to a movie.

What? Why? It's a perfectly legal thing to take.


Related note:

Is there a wording you can think to add that will allow the outsider to dismiss before they die?

For example. Please do {TASK} ...

... or if you're in mortal danger through not thought, action, or machination of you're own you are dismissed until called upon again.

Would that allow an outsider to leave if they before they are killed, but not at the expense of the task you've set them on? Right?


You're a level 15 wizard. Huzzah. Through study and dumb luck you've discovered the True Name of a Planetar (per True Name Discovery). You want to make the most of this, but simultaneously you want to avoid pissing off the entirety of the heavenly host.

You're alignment is neutral and you've got a pragmatic streak. As such you know not to demand the Planetar slaughter innocents or something obviously evil. Also, you'll clearly want to avoid calling him/her a "pet" to their face.

I suppose my question is how does one best utilize your new "Pet" and not piss off all of heaven?

True Name Discovery Excerpt:

It is in your best interest to call this creature only sparingly, and occasionally reward it in some fashion to mollify its wrath. If you repeatedly fail to offer it a reward appropriate to its type and ethos, the creature may begin plotting ways to destroy the bond between you, whether by creating an accident that will destroy your memory of the name, by plaguing you with nuisances or dangers until you vow never to call on it again, or by actively seeking to destroy you through its own devices or those of an underling. If this creature is of a lawful type and you are violating its ethos, its superiors may even destroy it or you rather than allow you to contaminate their servant further. Worse, they may establish situations where it is necessary for you to summon this outsider, opening gateways to infernal or angelic interference, in order to gain a foothold on the Material Plane.


Samasboy1 wrote:
You could retrain your selection of Truename with the now dead outsider, to Truename with a different chosen outsider....?

Is this legal?


Not sure if this is rules or advice, but I'd prefer the former is there are any.

What happens if a wizard takes the Truename discovery and subsequently his true name outsider is killed?

As true name is a calling effect the outsider is physically present and subject to death, correct?

Is there any way to resurrect an outsider? Wish maybe?

Any other thoughts?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Permanent telepathy would take care of it quite efficiently.

If you want an item maybe make a group of rings that can all telepathically call each other.


I know Golarian is the planet on the prime material, but is there an interplanar city of trade? The City of Brass, basically.


Sounds like an animated object with a scry sphere in it. The control part would be verbal.

Though just casting arcane eye would be simpler.


With DM Fiat all things are possible.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
Similar to the Wish staff, but at the lowest spell level which makes sense for staves, would be a Permanency (10 charges) effect. Would cost 5 * 22,500 (highest permanency material component cost) extra in materials, but after six uses would pay for itself. Good way to give the entire party various magical abilities.
Permanency is problematic because the component cost of the spell varies for each spell you use it on.

Hence the calculation that uses the most expensive material component.


Note to self: I need some scrolls of planeshift.


CBDunkerson wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

I get the rest, but why contingency?

Anyone who used the staff would need to keep the focus on them (separate cost per person) as well as have the companion spell handy.

The focus cost is added to the staff and then the focus isn't needed thereafter. Utility is just having the spell available when needed... not having to memorize it in case you use the existing one.

Ahhh. I just re-read the rules. Good to know. I may use that one.


GM Rednal wrote:

Yyyyup. XD The only staff I've ever had or used regularly is a very special campaign-specific one - it's a solo game, and the staff is a scaling item that gets stronger over time and unlocks new spells.

Frankly, I think staves tend to be better as loot than something you craft.

Agreed. I'm only even entertaining this because Craft Staff is a feat tax for Staff-like Wand.


I think I have it.

Staff of limited wish.

Universally useful, absorbs cost over time, not inherently broken or offensive.

It it required 5 charges it'll cost $22,800.
For comparison if it required one charge it'd be $114,000.

I'd actually prefer the latter, but a "free" limited wish every 5 days isn't shabby.


GM Rednal wrote:
Just, uh, don't forget the cardinal rule of pricing magic items - start by comparing them to existing items. A scroll is one thing, but a reusable high-level spell is probably going to trip somewhere along the way.

True, but it's generally established that staves are mostly pointless to craft due to absurd expense.

I suppose I could increase the number of charges, but i don't think that's necessary.

In practicality we're talking about an 8th level spell at the cost of an 8th level spell slot for ten days. That by itself if probably fine.

The 10K material component per casting would be the issue I think.

*pause*

... Yea. This is broken.

In the case of staves it either seems to be totally broken (like this) or just not worth it to make in the first place.


Ohhh

Binding could be useful to have in a staff.

Using 10 charges and being able to bind anything with 20 HD or less the staff would only cost 5800.

Seems a worthwhile investment.


CBDunkerson wrote:

Right, those are crafting costs and purchase would be double.

Staff of the long campaign
Resurrection (10 charges)
Permanency (10 charges)
Greater Restoration (5 charges)
Contingency (5 charges)
Wish/Miracle (2 charges)

I get the rest, but why contingency?

Anyone who used the staff would need to keep the focus on them (separate cost per person) as well as have the companion spell handy.


As above I could see a clone staff being useful if you wanted a lot of clones.

Cost being 9800 total for a staff of clone that uses ten charges per clone. Since they take 2d4 months to grow anyway the time shouldn't be a problem. After you make 50 clones (of yourself or others) it'd pay for itself.

of course if you can just cast clone and want less than 50 of them it's cheaper and easier just to cast the spell.

Then there's the problem of preserving them.


I'm getting the impression from this thread that the best use would be a high level spell that isn't needed often or lasts a very very long time, but reduce the cost by using multiple charges.

Trap the soul comes to mind. It's not something you'd need every day and it really expensive.

[((8x15x400) / 10))+((20,000 X50)/10)] = 148,000

20K for a 20 HD or less creature

Expensive, but it would use 10 charges, but could trap anything with less than 20 HD every ten days.

Mechanically this works, but as the material component is consumed in the creation of the staff there's no physical gem. ... I suppose it would make sense if the staff conjured this highly expensive gem as the spell was cast.

... Upon further review this could theoretically make an evil caster a s%%! ton of money over time if he participated in the soul trade. Basically you kill people and get free money.


Related question:

These are all costs for crafting, correct? I assume everything mentioned would be twice the price to purchase. Permanency staff would go for 253,200 on the open market, for example.


Permanency is a good idea. Though it's perfectly legal there's a chance my DM won't allow it. He's weirdly finicky about certain things. He flat out and harshly denied Permanency + Shrink Item when i casually brought it up. At that moment I wasn't event considering using it. I just thought it was interesting. One of many things I feel he's wrong about, but it's not worth arguing over. I digress.

However, for sake of this exercise lets do the math anyway.

{5th level spell X 8th level caster X400} / 10 charges = 1600
Plus material component of (25,000 X50) / 10 charges = 125,000
(Symbol of vulnerability is listed as having the highest cost at 25K)

Total cost 126,600. However, given that you could thereafter basically make anything permanent every 10 days i'd be a very worthwhile investment for a long campaign. I'd definitely make something like it for kingmaker.


GM Rednal wrote:
In fairness, he did say "for a high level campaign". XD

True.


CBDunkerson wrote:
For a high level campaign a staff with Wish burning two charges per casting would allow you to cast Wish five times consecutively and thus create a +5 inherent bonus to a stat. You could then recharge the staff to repeat that every 10 days. After boosting five stats that way you'd have recouped the material component cost of the staff... and every stat boosted thereafter would effectively be 'free'.

I would question that math.

Crafting a wish that uses 2 charges is easy and relatively inexpensive enough at ((9x18x400)/2) =32,400.

However the material component requirement alone would be 625,000((25,000X50)/2). Unless you're starting at level 18 then I suspect that amount will rarely be available. I sincerely doubt it will be for me.

Edit: Just checked and you do divide the the material cost by the number of charges also. That's new.


Also, it does get somewhat cheaper if you put more spells into it.

The materials cost is subsumed in the cost of creation: 400 gp × the level of the highest-level spell × the level of the caster, plus 75% of the value of the next most costly ability (300 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster), plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities (200 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster). Staves are always fully charged (10 charges) when created.


At the moment I'm thinking communal Stone Skin. Basically to save me the high cost, but provide stone skin to everyone basically every fight.

I think the cost is as follows:

Wiz 5 spell (Communal Stone Skin) X Caster level 8 X 400 = 16,000
Plus material component of (250 X 6) X 50 = 75000
I added the X 6 so that each charge could affect up to 6 people. Technically that may not be necessary, but I know my DM and am erring on the side of caution.

That's 91K to craft.

... ... ...

Well damn. Scratch that idea. I suppose it'd be cost effective on the 51st use, but that's a lot of gold to pony up in the creation.

*sigh* Back to the drawing board.


Also, if it's a spell with a material component I can put it in a staff and it'll eventually pay for itself.


Neo2151 wrote:

I'm a fan of staves with rare, but powerful, utility spells; things which you'll want on demand but never want to prepare, but will want to have handy more often than simply carrying a scroll as backup.

Teleport/Overland Flight/Etc, for instance.

That said, Staff-like Wand is amazing IMO. You can craft the cheapest Fireball/Magic Missile/Scorching Ray wands possible and be set for blasting, leaving all those spell slots open for utility/control.
So. Good.

Now that you mention it perhaps I've been looking at this wrong. Via UMD + staff I can let party members use self only spells. Hummm. Food for thought.

Also, I completely agree about staff like wand. It's awesome


Generally speaking I know staffs aren't that great to craft. However, I'm playing a wizard who is about to be level 15. I'm strongly considering taking staff-like wand, which as you probably know requires craft staff as a prerequisite. I already have craft wand. Though not a prerequisite it's generally useful. I'm playing Reign of Winter if that makes any difference. No spoilers please.

Anyway, instead of having craft staff and never using it I thought I'd do a little crowd sourcing. In a similar situation what do you think is the best, most generally cost efficient, staff to craft? It can be custom and probably will be. Basically something that's not obscenely expensive, but will give a good bang for buck.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

Ok. Thanks for the heads up.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20
The Dapper GM wrote:

I've always had GMs rule it the other way.

"Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It's like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it's not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast."

There's no exception I can find for conjuration spells, and it says "solid" barrier, not "opaque."

This was my understanding too. Line of effect is a universal rule of magic with the specific exception of teleportation and only teleportation.

I wish it wasnt the case. Trust me. I'd love to send conjured creatures at my enemies from the safety of my force bubble.


Everything is an illusion. (Ala we really live in a hologram.)


I rather liked the forgotten realms version of this.

Cliffs notes: Mystra the goddess of magic created a very simple ritual to facilitate mage duels that both prevented collateral damage and preserved the lives of casters. I think it was three circles in the dirt or something.

Essentially any magic that occurs in the arena (created by the circles) is subdual and cannot leave the confines of the arena.This holds for any kind of spell and not just damage. Summoned creatures do subdual damage, save or die becomes save or pass out, etc. Basically people can watch in safety and casters can knock the hell out of each other and only succeed in incapacitating them.


Aranna wrote:

Are these girls PCs or NPCs? If PCs then the dresses HAVE to fit into their starting gold budget. If NPCs then they can do anything the GM wants without needing any construction rules... just remember if the players are going to be attacking these girls then you should balance the dresses to the power level of the PCs so it won't unbalance the game when they get them as treasure.

I think it's a thought exercise and not an actual game mechanic.


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Check out Hama


I'd love to play that kind of campaign.

I don't have much advice, but it seems that if you have a metric ton of HP to share then lifeline would be useful. Else, perhaps not.


Melkiador wrote:
I'm curious how often this actually comes up anyway. Do a lot of people play generational campaigns? When you hit 20, your career/campaign is pretty much over, so who cares if your character gets to live forever ever after when it's done.

Yea. I've only ever used immortality in a high level game for story purposes. or for things like timeless demiplanes. Wouldn't want to die of old age after leaving it for the first time in a millennia.

Edit: seems to be one of those things that you could allow earlier in the game and it would have absolutely no impact. Of course if every NPC and their mother had access to immortality I can see how that would break a game world.

Ohhh. Game idea. Immortality somehow became cheap and easy. However, immortals are by their nature sterile. The humanoid races start to become rarer and rarer till eventually there are only a few survivors.


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Create a new greater demiplane with the timeless quality.

Give the dresses the ability to cast astral projection + a ring of sustenance effect + immortality or reincarnation.

The latter two are only in the the very off chance that you have to remove your daughters from the demiplane.

Now they can astral project and do whatever they want on any plane other than their original with no risk to personal safety.

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