So I'm hoping to go to GenCon Indy, but right now, I'm pessimistic. I can definitely get a flight, already have a badge ordered, but the hotels are pretty much completely booked. Right now the only ones available via the GenCon housing page are 8 miles out from the convention center on the loop or near the airport, and while they are cheaper than the hotels downtown, once you throw in the extra $40-50/day for cabfare to and from the con, they are nearly as expensive.
Yay! I got into all four scenarios. It looks like lots of tickets are selling for Pathfinder Society. Thursday morning's Silent Tide looks like it is full.
Woo hoo! Excellent. Who DOESN'T want to be one of the first players EVAH to do Scenario #1, Pathfinder Society Inaugural Adventure?
My plans:
Thursday AM Silent Tide
Thursday PM Murder on the Silken Caravan
Friday PM Sticking with 3.5 Seminar
Friday Late Ascension of the Drow
Saturday AM Hydra's Fang
Saturday PM Pathfinder AP Preview Seminar
Sunday AM Frozen Fingers
Now I just have to figure out what in heck I am going to play >_> - most likely paladin or cleric. While I know we'll be doing 3.5 for the 2008 season, I am going to wait and see what Alpha Phase 2 has to offer. I assume there will be a conversion point somewhere to take our 3.5s into 3P, so I want to set myself up for gaming goodness success!
I am so excited! As I've mentioned before - I haven't been this ramped up over RPGs for a good 2 decades. WOW!
And no - I am NOT getting into character for a Barbarian PC ...
I've just spent the last 1.5 hours just attempting to register for 7 events - I've managed to finally make it to the shopping cart, but can't get to the final checkout.
Insane.
Five bucks say's WotC's DDI experience roll-out is just like this (I haven't seen a stress test or anything).
EDIT: And, at 1 hour and 48 minutes I *finally* managed to register for all 4 Pathfinder Society events and the Drow smackdown event, and 2 seminars. Who says we're not committed? Hope to see you all there, and maybe even enjoy a beer together after the games.
Yeah. I think it really is time to just not worry about it, let them PUBLISH the GSL, and then let the legals worry about it. You and me - we'll pop an aneurism fussing over woulda-coulda-shoulda.
What I think has me a tad sad is I think Scott and Linae are trying their hardest to please the populace by releasing what they know, but we're (generic we, please) grabbing those morsels, twisting them all about, and confusing the issue. Its almost as if it would have been better for them not to say ANYTHING, and just wait for the full release of the info.
But this is not enough! Anyone interested in a class-action lawsuit against WOTC? IMHO, this is a monopolistic move that should be stopped in court!
Eh. I disagree.
I believe that WotC has the right to do what they feel is in the best interests of THEM. Open Gaming is a good thing, but I don't think it really turned out to be what I think it was intended all along. Businesses like Paizo and Necromancer who made D&D support materials I think fit the mold better than all the others who made alternative games and such off the exact same rules. Good for the industry, but not so good for D&D.
Its really a Catch-22 situation for WotC. They HAVE to make money. They do HUGE things for the gaming industry as a whole, and they need the finances to allow them to support and do projects - and there was much rejoicing! However! If they do what they need to do to make that money, by clamping down on the OGL and such to stop the constant bleeding of funds, we lambast them as money-grubbing imperialists out to socialize the universe! Rawr!!
But yeah; looking forward to seeing the colored version! (Remember that Merisiel, like all Golarion elves, doesn't have normal eyes, just solid colors, though.)
Interesting - I was wondering what was up with her art, just never bothered to ask.
What is REALLY interesting is that, quite some time ago I decided to do the EXACT same thing with the elves in my own homebrew based upon the artwork in the Games Workshop High Elves book - the way the eyes are in the pen and inks in there are all dark - as if solid colors, and I liked the alieness it gave the race.
I'd like to get more into some 3.5 materials to perhaps broaden my gaming scope. So, I am looking for some recommended adventure materials, sourcebooks and the like that you have found to be pretty much "Must-haves" on your gaming shelves.
A tad about me - since I've started WAY back in 1974, I usually tend to the "core" rules of PHB, DMG and MM. Liked 1st Dieties and Demigods, didn't care for 1st Unearthed Arcana. Add in Greyhawk boxed set. Wasn't too enthused about 2d Edition at all, so stuck with PHB, DMG and MM, and got the FRealms boxed sets. Didn't do much with 2d at all. Got 3d/3.5 PHB, MM,DMG (recognize a pattern here?)
Basically, I stick with the three "core rule books." For 3.5 I added Expanded Psionics (love it) and Elder Evils (interesting). As a player, I really favor paladins. I've been looking at a few things that seem kind of interesting:
- Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk
- Drow of the Underdark
- Expedition to the Demonweb Pits
- Complete Divine
- Complete Warrior
Why not a Paladin varient for each Alignment? There would be a switch out on certain abilites, and a sub-title. (G Paladin: Cavalier, N Paladin: Myrmeidion, CE Paladin: Despoiler, ect)
My basic take is that the paladin was an iconic fantasy class added based on the concept of the holy, righteous character. It wasn't added into the game so any aligned guys could be powerful champions of their diety (technically, isn't that a cleric?) but was added into the game so that the flavor and story of the holy fighter, filled with righteousness, and willing to throw himself or herself into the potentially fatal battle would be available as a character class. The RPG genre didn't start with assigned roles and such in mind, it started as an opportunity to allow players to pick iconic personae, gave them a conflict, and the rest is up to the group to work out.
Some questions -
o Why would a chaotic or neutrally-aligned character desire, swear to uphold, or even follow an oath? The only alignment I would consider being eligible for the same "deity-champion" is the LE character, and I would see that character being less about following the strictures of the law-binding master as much as "what's in it for me, and how do I break this infernal bond anyways?" <"You don't understand the power of the dark side ... I *must* obey my master!" - Darth Vader>
o What is really so wrong about having a good-only character? The game is full of demons, and evil, and dark-darkity-darkdark guys and gals, can't we have ONE token nice guy?
Indeed...Don't trust them. I saw them outside the gamestore yesterday, and they laid a plate of thin-mints, some shiny new dice, and a miniature under a huge spike-filled cardboard box propped up via stick with a rope tied to it.
Don't fall for this...
Auuugh! Too late!
Yeah - I keep going o.O over all the supposed conspiracies and "us vs. them" junk being added to the fire. I tend to let them slide past with no more a second look than a landspeeder full of jedi masters trying to get past a small Stormtrooper roadblock ...
This statement worries me for the future of D&D as a global hobby. If a company cannot use the d20 GSL to produce fantasy settings, unless they are willing to pay what I imagine to be high royalty costs to wizards to use the D&D 4E GSL most fantasy based settings will not make the crossover to 4E.
It sounds to me like wizards are trying to indirectly squeeze any income from publishers while maintaining global superiority over fantasy based RPGs.
The 4E GSL is a "royalty-free license" that will "allow third-party publishers to create roleplaying game products in fantasy settings with the D&D 4th Edition rules."
The d20 GSL is "a second royalty-free license" that will "allow third-party publishers to create roleplaying game products in non-fantasy settings with the 4E rules."
To me it doesn't seem like squeeze at all, since both are royalty-free, but maybe I am not reading your concerns right.
But seriously, what's the likelihood that WotC may actually have pulled off something that is really cool and different in the P&P RPG market?
I still don't have an answer to that one. No one really will until June, as near as I can tell. Honestly, I'm pensive about it. I'd really like to know what the actual game is going to look like, but the promotional material is filled to brimming with "but this may change before release" disclaimers. Sitting here saying "I love it" or "It's going to suck" seems about as random as making snap judgments about what Pathfinder RPG was going to look like based on the 1.1 Alpha Release.
Oh...wait. People have actually done that. ^_^
First off, I think the chance that 4E is going to be a good game is high. I think it is going to be popular, and its going to be enjoyed by a lot of people.
However, this thread isn't about prognosticating how well the game is going to be received, but rather - How did YOU react? That throws the discussion completely outside the bounds of rational debate and into the chaotic, ever-churning waters of snap decisions and other assorted emotionally-charged thought processes. How did I feel? Here's how ...
I am willing to wait to see what the final product is going to be (indeed, I've actually pre-purchased my books), but there are some distinct elements that are out there that are final enough for me to say "I don't particularly care for them":
- Initial book races
- Defined character "roles" in the group
- Initial book classes
- Poor management of the DDI materials up to now (specifically the magazine content and the continually espoused '3.5 is crap' attitude by some members of the staff)
- The concept that yes, there are cool 3d virtual minis for the forthcoming DDI virtual table, but you will be restricted to using 2d "punch-out" counters unless you buy the minis. You are supposed to get some sort of sampler pack, but you're going to have to pay more than just the DDI subscription charge (currently $14.95 a month, or less in bulk month purchases) to fully enjoy the DDI tools. I'm still waiting to see if there are more "hidden costs"
- The odd concept that it is okay to "demonic-fy" almost EVERYTHING from race to class to powers to soul-crushing dieties and monsters, but the potential dubious background of how the half-orc comes into existance is too morally sensitive a subject matter? (I'm still more than a tad confused about that one ...)
Always understand - you may LOVE all the things I don't. That's the joy of personal preference, and I won't begrudge your choice, or even argue it with you! Instead, I'll pat you on the back and ask nicely if you can pass the salsa - our game is going great over here, can't wait to hear you tell me about yours over there!
Ooops - got to make a Perception roll ... I'll get back to you ...
I was not opposed to a new edition in principle and was even somewhat excited, even though I suspected it would not be exactly to my taste, but the more I learned about 4E, the more I began to dislike the direction it was taking both in terms of rules and in terms of flavor.
Roman hit it dead on the head for me. Originally I was "Cool! I love 3d..." but as I started to take a look I started to feel bad. The changes in the conceptual parts make it NOT feel like D&D to me, regardless of what others may say. The overall flavor of the core system campaign setting, the rules and everything distinctly feel 'not-D&D'. I've heard others say "You still kill monsters, loot treasure, and level up...", but isn't that truth for almost any other RPG out there? They can't ALL be D&D based upon that definition.
I will say this though, I haven't been this excited about gaming in AGES. I've dusted off all my notes, subscribed to everything Paizo I could find, and we've been playing. Regularly. I haven't played Regularly since 1995! Wheee!
For me, its a GREAT time to be gaming! Lots of excitement (some negative) but it's really kicking me off my butt and getting back into the trenches - and that is a very good thing, regardless of the rules set.
I have a feeling we're going to see a VERY limited SRD. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I'm getting the SRD for 4E is going to be very small. So small in fact that nothing in it can be used to create an alternative PHB or a different RPG using the rules.
That's nothing new. Just reading up on the discussions and releases and this has been WotC's EXACT stance from the beginning.
I just downloaded the latest version of the Gen Con events file and all of the Pathfinder events are now up. Start planning your schedules.
Note that event registration starts this Sunday, the 20th.
I'm hoping to register for Episodes 1 and 3 on Thursday, the Ascention sneak preview (!!) on Friday, The Second Darkness preview on Saturday, and Scenario 4 on Sunday. I am not sure if I am going to squeeze Scenario 2 in there or not - we'll have to wait and see. That should give me lots of time to open game, lurk in the exhibit halls and spend money, and loiter around the Paizo booth waiting for my turn to be slaughtered rapidly in some crazy game.
This will be my second GenCon (last one was 2000.) Anyone got plans for a dinner or a beer at a local Indy hotspot?
And Paizo needs to put up some Tee shirts "I'm a complete Paizo fanboi" or "I've found my Path - have you?" for us to wear as well :D
My question is would they want one, to start saying hey, we'll start making 4E products now would feel like a kick in the teeth to a lot of people really excited about 3.P wow when acronyms attack
Well, I guess if you're in the 3.5 vs 4E group it would.
The most important thing in my mind is that it never really was an "Usun's vs. They'm" thing. It was a "4E isn't practical at this time, and we see a market demand for 3.5, so we'll clean that up and continue to support in house." Paizo has made it clear on several occasions that they WOULD be supporting 4E through their co-work with Necromancer Games from day 1. I'm looking at this as a complete Win-Win scenario, no matter which game system you enjoy. I'm loving what Paizo is doing, so I am staying with them, whichever way they go, because I've come to trust the brand to give me the gaming love I am looking for.
Wizards of the Coast is pleased to announce that third-party publishers will be allowed to publish products compatible with the Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition game system under the new Dungeons & Dragons 4E Game System License (D&D 4E GSL). This royalty-free license will replace the former d20 System Trademark License (STL), and will have a System Reference Document (SRD) available for referencing permissible content.
The D&D 4E GSL will allow third-party publishers to create roleplaying game products in fantasy settings with the D&D 4th Edition rules, and publishers who register with WotC will be granted the right to use a version of the D&D logo that denotes the product as compatible with the D&D 4th Edition Roleplaying Game, in accordance with WotC’s terms and conditions. The effective start date for sales of D&D 4E GSL publications will be October 1, 2008.
The license associated SRD will be available on June 6, 2008, at no cost. A small group of publishers received advanced notice and will receive these documents prior to June 6, at no cost, in order to prepare for publication of compatible materials by the effective start date. If you haven’t already been contacted by WotC, you will be able to access the documents on the Wizards website beginning on June 6, 2008.
Wizards is also working on the details of a second royalty-free license, the d20 Game System License (d20 GSL). This license will allow third-party publishers to create roleplaying game products in non-fantasy settings with the 4E rules. The exact details for the d20 GSL will be released as they become available.
Not legalese-smart, but I guess it doesn't have much of an impact on Paizo's plans - I haven't seen a d20 logo in a while.
- Dave
I'm thinking of 2, but I can't remember either's names.
Somewhere around Champions (I'm thinking 1978-1981 - I was still in High School) someone released a TERRIBLE superhero game that you couldn't even figure out how to play from the rules! Absolute trash.
Again, not exactly sure when, but I suspect somewhere around 1984, someone released an Arthurian RPG that the manual read EXACTLY like a Computer Tech manual - it even had the cardboard slip cover and was formated in the exact same method as a tech manual. Kinda lost all the flavor there ...
I'm going to see if I can find those two online and embarass myself.
EDIT:
Ahh. Much easier than I thought that would be.
The Arthurian game was Hidden Kingdom: Classic Arthurian Roleplaying, by New Rules, Inc in 1983.
I am not positive, but I *believe* the supers game was Superhero 2044, by Gamescience, 1977 (author is Donald Saxman.) The name sounds real familiar, but the cover isn't ringing a bell. I continue my research.
I started off not liking 4E because it tends to break "the flavor" of what I want in my fantasy RPG, but a friend at work is all excited, so I started digging more into it. There are definitely some high points that I really enjoy about the the new cosmos. There are also some low points. Regardless, I started to get excited, even positively opinioned.
Ach, then I started to notice a complete lack of ability and responsibility to meet the initial promise of the online Dragon and Dungeon magazines. That made me a little unhappy, because they took this responsibility on themselves with all sorts of ballyhoo about how great it was going to be back in the WotC fold, etc. etc. And yet, they've completely let the magazines slip away, so that the latest issue of Dragon will spend its last days of 3.5 glory crawling miserably across 3 months, rather than giving 3.5 a loving sendoff.
Add into that the unpleasant concept that if I want miniatures for my DDI experience I am going to have to buy them? I can't get what I need for my game in the random packs as is, and now I have to buy virtual miniatures on top of it? While I know the exact pricing and format hasn't been released, I think this is absolutely ludicris. "You can use tokens ..."
Indeed.
4E has some promise, but these little fringe issues are like crocks hiding in the bush - they're not making my nature walk more fun at all!
Myself, I like to have a clairsentient NPC in the group when I'm DMing to act as my voice. I don't use the NPC to steer party actions so much as to provide greater insight to something I thought was pretty cool and wanted to share with the players - more of a fluff-dispenser if you will. I also like to play a Psionic when I get the chance - lots of fun and definitely something different. Expanded Psionics Handbook was a great product. Jason can only make it even better.
I can't believe people always complain about the fighter being "generic".The name is generic as is the stereotype behind them.No amount of tinkering will ever change that.
But they would kick more ass if they got an ability like Mettle,and could do more physical damage than any other character.They just get outshined by almost every other class in the long run.
I wouldn't mind seeing a fighter getting a mechanic similar to the Samurai Class's katana in Oriental Adventures - how they could "upgrade" their weapon as they went along. Make the upgrade linked to actually earning a fighter level so that everyone isn't taking a level of fighter and then moving on to something new would help ensure the value of the fighter. I might start working that into the home campaign, but the kids and I want to work with the Pathfinder Vanilla a bit first before we add sprinkles (actually, I think that's just me - the kids LOVE sprinkles ...)
It has to be said that both I and my cleric player forgot just that little proviso during the first playtest session. (The next session they didn't forget just didn't use at various points since hero boy wasn't complaining about being half dead.)
Yeah - we, uh - managed to forget that as well. <insert blush here>
Playtest Notes: My kids and I ran the Hollow’s End adventure this past weekend as our entry into the playtest.
1 Human Wizard, Amulet Focus, 1 Half-Orc Cleric
Some general comments:
We highly approve of the half-orc’s WIS bonus – makes them seem more shamanistic. I could even see where players have to go to the orcs for help or advice, as opposed to heads. Overall like the racial adds and the racial feel.
Item focus for wizards as an alternative to a familiar is well-received. Being able to cast a spell through the focus is great!
We really enjoyed the simplified skills list. I know others are going to want ranks, but my opinion is how much of a person’s skills really need to be quantified? Obviously the skill system is an abstraction, and its simple enough for the DM to abjudicate any necessary rolls.
HPs: We are liking Class + Racial + Con modifier. Gives the starting character a nice bunch of HP.
15 Minute Work Day: This is still a problem, except that it is maybe 20 minutes now. The boys ran into a tough encounter, and we didn’t have enough healing to get them back on their feet – and they had to spend TWO days recovering. This is not necessarily a bad thing (Frodo in Rivendell, for example) but I can see where those who want more stabbity are going to have a problem. More players in the group should lessen this impact.
Overall, we’re really enjoying playing, and I am loving the amount of flavor and care is being presented in the Pathfinder rules! Just waiting for Alpha 2 now! Woot!
I just think that Wizard's actions are the sum total of a large orginization with no clear vision on how to proceed in this fashion. Their indecisiveness on this has cost them and will continue to cost them.
I think Doc really has hit the crux of several matters dead on the nail. There are plenty of people out there waiving pitchforks and torches and yelling "slay the monster over several items" ...
- GSL
- Quality and quantity of content for Dragon and Dungeon magazines
- Timeliness
I've seen the WotC folk comment about how they had all the devs focusing entirely on the 4E product that it *has* impacted other areas of their business, and I really see them doing stupid things, specifically in regards to the handling of their online content, and still not "getting it" when people are commenting on the materials. To see them "waffling" around with the GSL makes perfect sense to me.
Nothing to do now but watch what unfolds. Lurking in the woodpile while chanting "conspiracy" isn't going to win any friends, and the goblins might begin to resent the intrusion ...
As I said elsewhere, I am beyond ecstatic! This is great for gaming overall by inspiring competition and providing choice. I am not happy in the direction 4e is going with (at least in terms of calling it Dungeons and Dragons - had they done this in conjunction with a Swords and Sorcery product [Everquest/WoW] I would have been fine, but 4e is not D&D - at least not to me.)
We'll be kicking into Pathfinder Alpha this weekend for sure!
Congratulations Paizo! I am SO excited by this decision!
I'm sure that 4E will be a decent game, but truth is they need to take the D&D title off of the product. This is no longer D&D, but more akin to EVERQUEST, WORLD OF WARCRAFT, or any other fantasy MMORPG out there with limited scope and forced roles. Why does a paladin have to be a Divine Defender? Why do I need to fall into a role at all? I feel that these clique-like roles are going to be more limiting to the development of good role-play than character alignments ever were.
As a charter subscriber, I have continued to be entranced and amazed by the Pathfinder line. These are STORIES! This is what Role-playing is about!
I'm so excited, and I am happy to throw in my money NOW to support the Pathfinder RPG (orders already placed)! My kids and I are all downloading copies now and we will start playing immediately!
Yes, it IS coming out. They'd created a Limited Edition collector's version (gilt pages, leather binding, the works) sold only from their web site, of which the 200 copies sold out in 4 minutes. If I'm not mistaken (no, I am way too lazy to go to www.blackindustries.com and check the date for you) the street date for this version is supposed to be the 28th of January. When you're checking out the site you may see some references to a Feb release date, but they did publish a notice saying the book was coming out early (January.)
Personally, I can't WAIT to get my copy! The art and such already has me drooling!
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