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I've been a part of the previous 6 or 7 conversations .. so I'm well aware of what is wanted. Unfortunately nothing that has ever been said in those conversations is any different than what is being said in this one.
I will note .. in this conversation .. and in previous ones .. the lines between want and not want are generally divided between player and GM .. respectively
And if the player doesn't want to carry all their resources .. who then provides them if there is a question? Are the GMs expected to provide resources for all the players at their table?
Then you haven't read back far enough ... This topic has been discussed for years .. debated for years... Unless there is a new miraculous revelation on how to make this work for both sides, I don't see a reason to change how things currently are
The problem I see is that all the different proposals seem to be pushing the onus of providing resources onto the GM. Be it providing a physical resource or using some sort of pdf writer ..
If there was a way to stay within the legalities that Paizo has laid out, that doesn't add extra work to GMs and Coordinators who are already super busy I'm sure people would be more than willing to look at it and discuss it.
But that proposal needs to have those two aspects for, at least, me to even want to consider it.
Also, one could bring a microSD card instead of a flash drive -- assuming anyone let you plug it into anything. Mine at least come with adapters and work on my tablet, or a phone, or a laptop.
My opinion is, that if you are going to bring all your pdfs on something, then you'd better be able to bring the thing to plug it into. My tablet is for my use, not for use of those at the table. So when you bring your sd card, or you flash drive, and you ask to borrow my electronics, the answer will be no...
Keep that in mind; Most people are not going to share their electronics as they are expensive and there is the chance that those with grubby paws will drop and break them.
Large convention centers, if they offer wi-fi services, will charge people an arm and a leg to use those services (case in point, I believe Gencon is 15 or so a day to use wifi and it's fairly craptacular).
Even if you have wifi, it may not always be reliable -- con in Michigan we had free wi-fi .. took about 20 minutes to load a web page and even longer to navigate to where you wanted to look.
Hauling books is a pain, I will agree, but for any hobby there is a price. If you don't want to haul your books, then pay the price of pdfs and a pdf reader. If you don't want to pay that price, then you'll pay the price and haul the books with you.
Part of the reasoning is that it is super hectic for the muster volunteers to muster multiple games at the same time.
There was one station last year that routinely had 10 different scenarios (I might be off one or two scenarios) each slot. That is too much.
Last year was a special year with being in the ballroom for the first time and there was more that was done. Things are pared back this year to make it easier on all the volunteers working to make sure you have a great con
Walter Sheppard wrote:
Regardless of any solution, the onus of presenting sources needs to always be on the player. I don't care if they have hardbacks I don't care if they have PDFs, but I do want all of my players to be able to consistently show me what sources they used to make their characters. I want to see the printed text from Paizo and verify that whatever your abilities their character has or whatever weird rules their character uses, they are interpreting the text correctly. Is because of this reason that I dislike verify character abilities using the online PRD's that are available. And it's because of this reason that I'm wary of any solution that replaces that printed material from Paizo with a single sheet.
Very well put Walter
Gary Bush wrote:
You are very mistaken, my mind is not closed, please refrain from the illusion personal attacks.
In contrast, my mind is open to many possibilities, however, you do need the backing of the community GMs and as one said before, it'll depend on when and how the GMs are asked.
If one is asked during limited time; the GM may or may not be gracious about it.. and once there is one GM that cops an attitude then you'll have numerous posts on the forums about how a player was treated when they were trying to get their sheet signed and that deters others from picking up the GM gauntlet.
The community is run by volunteers, anything that even gives the illusion of creating more work for the volunteer is going to be met with skepticism.
I've been one of those GMs, I've hauled all my books, and minis and etc to run several scenarios over the course of a weekend. I've had just the 10 minute break between games to run and tinkle, get a drink and have a smoke, because I've had to pack everything up and move tables to run the next game.
There are options in place ... my suggestion is to be happy with them. This is a topic that has been beaten to death and has yet to be changed.
Gary Bush wrote:
The previous rulings were made available to you regarding this; you dismissed them as they didn't have this exact proposal. End the end you are asking for exactly the same thing as has been asked in the past
Gary Bush wrote:
Still requiring others to give up their free time to sign off on things .. I seriously doubt that there is anyone that is going to do that. I know when I'm at a convention that my free time is very little and signing off on a bunch of sheets for people to avoid having to do the heavy lifting is not something I'm willing to do.
Granted, others may feel differently, but having been in this community for several years I'll err on the side that the majority isn't going to give up their free time.
Gary Bush wrote:
Considering the PRD isn't a viable option for players it shouldn't even be a consideration in this case.
In any case, I wish you luck. I don't see this gaining any ground and I'm done debating past issues.
Gary Bush wrote:
The reason more VOs are not more supportive (I'm making a broad assumption and I am not speaking for all VOs I'm sure) is that most of us have been here from the beginning and have seen the rulings in the past .. we have seen this tried time and time again.
Paizo has handed down what they consider reasonable options to have to carry all the hardback books.
Your proposal (from my understanding) requires VOs and GMs to sign off on all book purchases on a tracking sheet. GMs do not have the time to do this at a convention (some people only play at conventions); VOs don't always have the time between slots or during games to sign off on this. So it is adding something extra to what they are already doing.
There are viable options to having to carry the hardcover books. I do not see your proposal as a viable option as any GM or VO signature can be forged.
As one who has spent countless conventions hauling my books and GMing gear ... and looking for solutions to avoid the back strain.
PDFs are a viable option -- easy to print from, watermarked and never contested (unless it's not your watermark)
Tablet -- holds your pdfs .. downside is that you have to make sure it's charged -- look for a tablet with a long long battery life and you're golden
laptop -- bulky and takes up table realestate, however, would only need to be used to pull up resources and could be kept in bag or under chair when not needed -- would need to have character printed
rolling bag -- eliminates back strain, holds all the books and character binders and as long as it's one able to stand on end reduces the amount of floor space --- I used one for years and trust me, it's bulky but it is effective
if none of those options appeals to you, then I would say reduce the number of books used -- yes I know it's not a popular option, but it is an option.
The bottom line is that photocopies of books, torn out pages and anything not able to be verified as you having made the purchase is not going to be acceptable. My opinion is asking for coordinators and GMs to add to their tasklist is not acceptable either
This delves into GM fiat IMO. When I run this I generally forget about the Dimensional Step ability; however, If the party is steamrolling the adventure I'll add it to give the party pause, but generally speaking I don't add it in.
Considering this is a season 3 scenario and we are not in season 6; I'm pretty sure that fixing an old scenario is not going to make a high priority list. This is a case where we just have to adjust on our own as GMs
Here is a link to the VO Page scroll til you see the Oklahoma VOs and then find the once closest to you
I think the best advice given in this thread ... was to talk to the VO (emails are in the back of the free guide) and relay your concerns. If you truly have a major issue with that GM than you can make the choice to not sit at his tables again.
As a VL, I would hope that a player would come to me if there was an issue. I understand being a new player finding information can be difficult and daunting with all that is out there ... your local VO can help or asking on the boards generally can come up with a good answer for most questions.
Valuable resources for players are:
The free guide (look in your downloads)
Coordinators and GMs are not flawless and make mistakes, they are just as human as everyone else. Publicly flogging a GM what a play experience means that there are going to be less GMs as a whole as they aren't going to want the possibility of the public flogging (as evidence earlier by someone).
The sad fact with the google doc site is that too many people felt the need to randomly delete things from it as google drive didn't have good user control options.
the website is a much safer way to make sure that the community is able to access the information for years to come.
Make sure people are aware that games start right at 5 .. if they are going to be more than 15 minutes late they might not be able to get into the game depending on how far in the table is ... give the GMs a hard line in the sand on how far into a scenario is to far ..
after the first combat/middle of first combat
after the investigative part, but before the first combat
people will eventually learn to show up on time, or at least let you know they are running late
Negative Zer0 wrote:
Hrmm .. it's working for me ...
If you are trying to go to the original google drives, those have been shut down in favor of the website
As some one who got my start in convention gming on classic tables; here is what I did.
I let them know that I needed a few minutes to read over the scenario;
take 5-10 minutes to scan it .. look at the stats, skim over the opening so you don't tie your tongue in knots reading, and read the summary at the beginning closely .. this is going to give you the biggest boost in running the scenario.
I'm pretty hard-headed but flexible when it comes to thing like that.
We'll see what they have to say in regards to setting up the pfs stuff with me; I will certainly keep you in mind when it comes to looking for GMs
hrmm .. hadn't heard anything about ... I'll have to go look and see what happens with it
Michael Brock wrote:
It says nothing can be used except from Core Rulebook, traits web enhancement, and guide to organized play ...
The Murfreesboro Lodge has updated their warhorn and added a new gameday and new store. Come check us out!! In addition, we are also up on facebook Murfreesboro Lodge
Coming in January we have a new site Roll the Dice will be hosting a new PFS gameday starting on the 2nd Saturday of the month.
I used to have a long drawn out speech ... now I've condensed it pretty much to ....
I tend to run x rated games ... I don't take them there, the table does ... soooooo ... if you're offended tell me now, otherwise let's game
so far no one has gotten up and walked away .. even when explore <redacted> or <redacted>
I've had some pretty interesting games doing that .. and I don't think anyone has complained.
If there are issues during the game, I deal with them there, otherwise I prefer not to limit the creativity of the table.
The Murfreesboro lodge (do we have one now? hehe) is hopping with 2 guaranteed tables and a 3rd overflow table ready to go.
come and join us for a day of gaming goodness and have a few laughs and good times
The schedule is out through December currently so feel free to sign up and come back :)
What I've found works for my gamestore is having the schedule of games out several months in advance,
people can sign up for what they want to GM and when; the coordinator gets advanced knowledge of a day if filling up fast and another GM is needed
**this is where warhorn is freaking awesome in helping keep track of who is signed up where
and then biggest part is enforcing sign ups .. seat the ones first that have signed up and those that don't get what's left
Unfortunately, after level 1 there are no options to rebuild the character; unless there are campaign changes and characters are given limited rebuild rules to accommodate those changes.
Best advice is to see if you can still work with the trait and continue to play the characters. Some of my favorite characters are ones with flaws; makes them seem a bit more human.
If you honestly just cannot work with the trait and feel that you cannot play the character; then retiring the character and rolling up a new one might be the best option -- would give you a chance to rebuild the character into something you want to play at that point
Daniel Luckett wrote:
WTfrick ... how did I get dragged into this?
I think that up to now you've had to go back and realign rulings and things to make the society as a whole more cohesive and more streamlined. With that streamlining is going to come the dissenters who now have to give up a cool new toy or have to change the way they organize, etc. Those people are going to be the first to complain when they aren't getting their way or you've now made their game life harder for them.
The one thing I think people forget and weren't maybe completely prepared for is a campaign coordinator with a military-esque background. In your former job you had to be somewhat hardnosed depending on the situation and I'm sure that you've fallen back on some of those mannerisms in dealing with all of us whiney ones on the boards. Different campaign organizers are going to have different styles and while I'm not saying that the styles of previous organizers were bad, yours is different and something that we're all going to have to get used to as, so far, you seems to have broken the Gencon curse and you're still hanging around.
My personal opinion is that I would rather see super awesome kewl stuff on chronicles, give me a chance to feel like I've earned the item instead of just giving it to me. Since I judge so much I want to feel that the limited time I get to play has some value at the end other than just another piece of paper.
As far as making annoucements and the streaminglining -- there were (in my opinion) some obvious changes that had to be made and for me knowing that the VOs and M&M discussed it was enough. The VOs and M&M have been charged with nuturing PFS and fostering it up to be the best it can possibly be, that is not going to come without some changes and without some discussion.
While I don't want to see the whole discussion (who needs 600+ count threads), perhaps next time major changes are coming like this open it up for forum discussion for a week like you did when you first started. I think people would feel less like this has been sprung on them and the ones that have super strong feelings and feel like they were allowed to have their say before the decision was final.. if the decision doesn't change then so be it .. but people always want to feel as if their words have meaning and can affect change.
Andrew Christian wrote:
to me this is a situation that is variable depending on what is going on at the table at the time the spell is cast ... If you're the GM at the time I guess you get to *gasp* make a decision w/out the benefit of the collective.
I have a simple response to the "why don't you heal me" question. I don't heal stupid... for me stupid also includes not helping out with your own healing.
I "get" that you're the frontline fighter and that you're taking all the damage so that others don't have to. My fighter carried a wand and healing potions and anti-toxin etc. I provided my own way to keep me alive.
There is no reason that anyone should expect someone else to provide for them, we cannot assume that others are always going to be there with healing. What happens if the cleric's/healer's wand runs out half way thru the scenario?
Players are always going to use the excuse that the rules don't specifically state they can't do something -- even if the rules were written before the class -- such as taking cross-blooded sorcerer, using the draconic and X bloodlines and wanting to use dragon disciple.
We can argue the nuances of every little aspect and the players are always going to come up with something different. No matter what we as judges decide, players are always going to be upset and come to the boards to post about it so we can have another huge discussion thread about the little nuances all over again.
As a judge, my job is to make sure that the player understands that I cannot prevent what is going to happen if he does something that is going to conflict with cannon -- such as a religious symbol proudly displayed in Rhadadoum. If I have explained to the player that there could be negative consequences to his actions and he continues those actions, I feel free as the judge to follow cannon.
Now if the player changes his actions; say puts a wrap around his face to hide a tattoo, then I don't see where he's coming into conflict with cannon and the NPCs wouldn't target him for heresy.