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Queen Elvanna

Thea Peters's page

Goblin Squad Member. FullStarFullStarFullStarFullStarFullStar Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee. 1,300 posts (3,293 including aliases). 3 reviews. No lists. 2 wishlists. 13 Pathfinder Society characters. 1 alias.


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The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Andrew L Klein wrote:
So if I don't buy all the needes flip maps (for I think 3 scenarios, that'd get expensive), I should bring a blank grid then? Haven't looked to see what maps are used in mine, but my luck not a single flip map will be used in multiple scenarios lol

You'll need to make sure you have all the maps you'll need either hand drawn or flip-map/map-pack format. Don't plan on being able to get into the vendor hall on Thursday to pick up what you don't have; that's generally the worst day lol and the Paizo booth will be uber busy.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

JERRY WAYNE 333 wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
JERRY WAYNE 333 wrote:
So how does the four-volunteer-GMs-to-a-room at the Westin work? Do they roll in a couple of sleeping cots or do you have to cozy up in one of the double beds with one of your just-met-five-minutes-ago roommates? Do I need to bring a sleeping bag?

You share a bed.

Cuddling optional.

I've been doing this for years and never had a problem with a roommate hogging too much of the bed. Of course for me it's usually walk in, brush teeth, and *whoomph* straight to sleep from exhaustion.

I don't know how my wife is going to feel about me farting in bed with another while alseep, I think that was even in our wedding vows.

If you're wierded out at the thought of sharing; then bring a sleeping bag or air mattress. One can request a cot; but with the number of people they may or may not have enough to accommodate everyone and you may be left in the lurch if you don't plan ahead.

In general though; by the time everyone gets to the room to crash for the night -- doing anything funny isn't even a thought as you are exhausted and just want to get your 3 hours of sleep before you get up to hit it for another day

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Quote:


You can attempt that. You're better off buying actual tickets if you want to be sure you get a seat at the table. Also note that some scenarios cost more than $6 (specials).

What are the tickets for exactly? "PFS event" or "3.154 death by pie tier 10-11"

I suppose i'll be able to see the scheduel when i have my badge?

There is a supermarket .6 miles north of the hotel apparently.

If you buy a slotted ticket, they have the game that you are playing (i.e. 3/1 FrostPaw Captives Tier 15). If you buy generics they are just that you can use them for any event held at Gencon you aren't just limited to PFS events

The Exchange

ChaosTicket wrote:

Heh, when I think about my threads I can usually sum it up in one sentence.

Would you play with me as I am or do I have to change for you?

I belong more in Tactical RPGs or tabletop games. If I could find somebody playing Battletech I would fit better there. Here Im trying to ignore the people saying Im wrong for not writing up backstories, and for trying to make powerful characters. That about sums up most of the responses Ive gotten from A Pathfinder Society page of Facebook. Even if people dont say it, the additional limitations placed on Pathfinder Society support that.

I think you'll find a wide variety of acceptance within the larger PFS community. You asked us a question about what we would do. Several people told you they try to tailor their games or their gameplay to those at the table. I don't think a single person has told you that you are wrong in not creating a backstory, or wrong that you prefer the more tactical aspects.

Personally when I first started GMing I really shied away from role play heavy social scenarios to GM because I wasn't good at it. I eventually got over it; but for a long time I much prefer the combat heavy scenarios because I was good at that. We would have gotten a long great then and we would get a long great now because I've grown as a GM and can tailor things better for the overall party make up.

If you want to think that people are telling you that you are wrong then feel free, but no one has told you that you are wrong nor would they or should they in my opinion. People play differently, if we were all the same it would be pretty freaking boring.

The one thing you have to remember going into PFS or any other organized play. The company is the ultimate GM and we are just players in their home game. They have rules for their home game just as any other home GM would have rules. To play at the table you have to abide by the rules. If you feel the rules ruin your gaming experience you have the option of walking away from the table.

The Exchange

ChaosTicket wrote:

I have this habit of asking questions I already know and hope for a different, more hopeful result. I asked if you punished(negative), or tolerate(neutral), but not if you encourage(positive) it.

Im under the assumption that I am a Power Gaming, Min-maxing, Munchkin, and everyone else either is or will be Shakespearean actors.

The non-linearity of a Role Playing Game should be encouraging to everyone, but you still see people with the desire players be actors not gamers. I asked alot of questions to DMs for Dungeons and Dragons as well as Pathfinder before I really became determined to play RPGs. One question was "Do you reward players for acting, doing creative actions, or fighting well?". I dont see that in Pathfinder Society much. As this are standardized so much going above-and-beyond in any way only earns you self-rewards.

The nature of the public forums (including facebook) is that if you ask an ambiguous question you are going to get more than you bargained for for as an answer.

With that in mind with so many people that play this game and read and respond to posts on these forums (and facebook) you are inevitably going to come up with answers that either you don't like or cause you to question your original point of view.

The best answer any one can give you is going to be from their personal experience and then simply to say that your personal mileage may vary as different GMs have different ways of handling things. No two GMs are going to give you the exact same answer or handle things in the exact same way.

Asking for a black and white answer is going to get you all the grey in the world and never be clear; take what you want from the answers you were given to your question; but in the PFS side of Pathfinder things will vary, in the Pathfinder side of Pathfinder things will vary -- it's the nature of the game

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Fromper wrote:
I'm assuming we'll get the scenarios we're supposed to GM added to our downloads for free. When can we expect that to happen? I've got one that's already available, and pretty complicated, so I was hoping to start reading it very early, hopefully within the next week or two.

Generally; in the past, it's happened w/in a couple weeks of the show. That might change this year, but err on the side of caution and assume it won't happen early

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Mark Stratton wrote:
Swiftbrook wrote:

Make sure you bring a printed copy of the scenario you are running.

I've been at tables with good GMs just using a tablet.


  • Things are missed and it takes longer. Even after I asked, the GM missed the "4-player adjustment".
  • Flipping between pages takes longer. Then you have to flip back to where you were. Time wasted while you flip though rules and scenarios is time not spent gaming, eating, and walking the dealer hall.
  • Tablets require power. You wont have access to an outlet it in the ballroom. Can you run 3 slots (17 hours) without a recharge?

I'm sure you can bring up exceptions to every one of my points if you want. Just don't plan on using a tablet for everything. Bring a printed copy of the scenario. Use your tablet for looking up rules - they're good for that.

GMs should run the scenario from the format best suited to their GM style. However, bringing a printed copy is a necessity. There won't be outlets for a GM (or player, for that matter) to charge a tablet/laptop/phone, and even if one is nearby, you won't be able to run power cord from it to your table.

Swiftbrook brings up some legitimate concerns, but many GMs can run from a tablet without a problem. The requirement to bring a printed copy relates specifically to the lack of ability to charge, or to keep charged, a device.

This is handy advice for players as well ... especially now that the paper copy requirement has been waived I'm sure we're going to be seeing a lot more players with only electronic character sheets -- but w/out that paper copy they could be in trouble.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

hrm ... just cause I was curious .. I was doing some maths ... you might fight it cheaper to drive by the time you figure roughly 3 days on the road (2 nights in hotels); roughly 140 gallons in gas, food and drinks on the road -- and when I did the google search for distance it said flight started at 584 -- that's like an extra 200 you save by flying you can spend in the vendor hall lol

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

2 people marked this as a favorite.

One thing; drinking is HUGE at Gencon -- and I'm sure I'll be contributing my share of the money, however, I do caution to pace yourself -- Doing anything (GMing, HQing etc) at Gencon while still hungover sucks.. I've done it (and like the ones that suggest not GMing ever slot) I don't recommend it lol

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Gary Bush wrote:
4 kinetics in any adventure is bound to be fun.

And all gnomes

giggles and falls off the couch

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

LOl .. I've got 4 kinetiscts that are playing The Twisted Circle

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Michael Eshleman wrote:

Last year I volunteered for all 10 slots (including all 4 specials). I was released from three of those slots, but in two of them I stepped in to run tables in need of a GM. One of them was Scions of the Sky Key Part 1; the other was during Serpent's Rise when I ran various Phantom Phenomena quests cold.

I believe that I used my other released slot to take a nap! :)

There is still a large core of GMs that do what needs to be done to get the Con to go off -- I remember my early days of conventioning and stepping up to make sure it happened.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Venture Officers can have private home/store games just the same as any other player can have private home/store games. They can also play PFS scenarios during these private events as well.

The problem with this would come in if they were doing the private invite-only games in lieu of public games. As long as they are still supporting public games there should be no problems.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

The major reason is that they fixed a lot of things with the Summoner class.

If that is the one that you really want to play the best advice is going to be buy the book; you can get the PDF for not a whole lot of cash.

Without knowing which books you got as there were different levels. The sorcerer is an awesome class and has summoning as well as the wizard.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

jcg wrote:

"The campaign recognizes the use of technology in the Pathfinder Society organized play program and the variety of tools available to players. However, a player must possess a clear and legible character sheet that they are comfortable giving to a GM to review. There is no standard character sheet format required. Regarding electronic devices, if you are not comfortable with a GM viewing (and perhaps briefly handling) the device in order to review your character information, you should consider keeping character information in a format you are willing to hand to a GM."

So regardless of the 600+ opinions in the thread, reading Tonya's message above, as long as I'm comfortable handing my tablet/laptop/device to the GM I no longer need to bring a paper copy of the character sheet, correct?

But chronicle sheets should still be brought in paper form even if scanned in and available?

Correct .. however, I would implore people to remember the GMs that may not be comfortable handling someone elses' electronic item and bring the paper copy anyway

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

LOL

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Nohwear wrote:
I would appreciate it if people would politely and constructively attack my idea for a one time total wipe of your number. If it is a bad idea, or just too much hassle, I would like to know why.

My personal opinion in the idea of a total wipe is no.

I think it creates a layer of meta game that doesn't need to be there with knowing what happened within the scenario. In addition, as one who has played games after I've GM'd them, it's honestly just not as much fun to play a scenario when you know what's coming; there is no challenge.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

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gatherer818 wrote:

I haven't read all the previous threads on this topic, but I've read this one and was surprised not to see something mentioned: a per-character replay option. Not "unlimited replay", which sounds a bit much, but also making it where you never have a situation where you can't level a character up because they've played everything they can reach.

Or perhaps an option to replay a scenario you played at the lower subtier, but you have to play at the higher subtier and you only get the difference between the two - ST 6-7 gold MINUS the ST 3-4 gold, plus you get the 6-7 items but you don't get a second of each "limit 1" from the 3-4, and you can't claim the same boons again but if you complete a different boon you can get it.

I know as a bit of a "completionist" myself I'm already wary about running in the lower subtier because I'm permanently locking off rewards from all my characters every time I do. My highest level character only has three Chronicle Sheets and I'm already worried about it, even though I plan to also GM, so that helps mitigate it a little. A per-character replay would also allow those items that fit perfectly into certain builds to be discovered and then obtained, so there's a lot less guesswork in trying to pick the right character to get the right rewards.

I imagine this has probably been advanced as a theory before, but not having seen it yet myself, I might as well throw it in the ring.

PS: It might be better imagined as something like 3 or 5 runs of the same scenario, but none of them on the same character. This would be more complicated (you'd have to check more than just the one character's Chronicle Sheets), but also prevent "unlimited replay" by virtue of making 20+ characters.

Originally (waaaaayyyyy back in the day) you could replay each scenario once per faction -- so 5 times with a different character of a different faction. That, quite honestly, created tons of problems (personally I'm happy to retire the two characters that have cross-over chronicles it was confusing).

The biggest problem with doing this was that by the third time you played a scenario it was hold hat.. you knew what was going to happen, you knew how to prepare your character and the only thing different was the faction mission; which wasn't all the interesting.

I was happy when the replay rules were changed and don't see a reason to change them. My opinion is that, while everyone gives back in their own way to their community, stepping up to GM if you've played 6.5 seasons of scenarios might be a good idea.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

James Martin wrote:
captnchuck67 wrote:
still waiting to see if I was accepted. I just hope Paizo does not pull on me what they did last year.
What did they pull on you? And if you wish to GM PFS at GenCon, you might want to start GMing elsewhere to gain some experience. I'm not seeing any GM Stars on your profile.

No offense intended, but having stars or not having stars isn't an indicator of being a GM :) Just someone who may not have GM'd much.

I'm sure anyone of any experience level will be welcome to join the ranks of Gencon GMs, we all had to start somewhere

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

ConNooga is back and PFS is there

Sign-ups can be found ConNooga

Signup now and reserve your spot!!!

Hope you see you there

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Bumping as less than a month way OMGOSH

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

In a loud room (such as a convention) I'll get up and lean into the middle of the table to read the long parts -- this way I don't have to speak as loud (saving my voice some) and the players can all hear me.

The trick is to not read down into the table ... but look up and read "out" to the table.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Nefreet wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
You do NOT! Have the right to turn someone away using Hero Labs.
I do, I have, and I will continue to do so.

Well, this blew up over night. I'm at work and haven't read the 124 posts since I made this one, but I wanted to expand on it before the thread gets locked.

I don't work for HeroLab. I *volunteer* for Paizo. I have volunteered thousands of hours for them thus far. I have -zero- obligation to promote, endorse, or support -any- third party product, including HeroLab.

And I have every right to speak out against it.

But what gives you the right to refuse a player a seat based on their use of the program? I.e. what post or rule are you basing this on. If it's your personal preference than that goes against the spirit PFS in my opinion

The Exchange

Report a dummy table .. you'll get the link to download the session tracker

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

trollbill wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
trollbill wrote:
godsDMit wrote:
trollbill wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Trollbill

The Dm CAN require a paper character sheet. They do not have to insist on a paper character sheet: they can and probably will be ok with an electronic one. IE neither the DM nor the player are breaking any rules when they use an electronic sheet

I agree. What I mean by 'legal' is: MUST be accepted by the GM versus MAY be accepted by the GM. A GM MUST accept a printed character sheet as a valid character sheet. They MAY accept a non-printed character as a valid character sheet.
Please provide a link to where it says paper copies must be accepted and electronic ones can be rejected just cause they are electronic.

It has been provided previously, but here it is again:

Mike Brock's post on the matter

Michael Brock wrote:
While we require that players have physical chronicle and character sheets, we want it to be as easy as possible for anyone to come to a PFS game and play Pathfinder! So if someone comes to your table without a printed character sheet, we strongly encourage you to find a way to include them in the game and then advise them of the rules for future games. We want everyone to feel welcome in our PFS community.

It does not say "we require that players have a physical or electronic chronicle and character sheet," ergo the GM is only required to accept physical chronicles and character sheets.

For interpretation purposes this was all started by a thread where Nefreet express his right, like he did in this thread, to refuse electronic character sheets. The debate got heated to the point that another thread was started specifically to answer this question and Mike was forced to make a ruling. It was a ruling he didn't like making and most of the posters didn't it either but is was made, none-the-less.

Again,
...

And arguing a bad rule based on it being a rule ... is bad form..

I'll echo the previous poster .. I'm done with this discussion, it's pointless

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Ok .. so Mike said that physical sheets are required.

No where in that thread does he say that physical sheets are the only legal character sheet.

No where in that thread does he say that you cannot use an electronic character sheet

No where in that thread does he give permission for GMs to refuse a player a seat because they do not have a paper copy

what he does say

Quote:

Mike Brock

While we require that players have physical chronicle and character sheets, we want it to be as easy as possible for anyone to come to a PFS game and play Pathfinder! So if someone comes to your table without a printed character sheet, we strongly encourage you to find a way to include them in the game and then advise them of the rules for future games. We want everyone to feel welcome in our PFS community.

Which to me means figure out a way to make it work and let the player know that they need to have a paper copy in the future. To me this does NOT mean that I have the right to refuse the player a seat at the table nor does it give me the right to say that they cannot use their electronic character sheet.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

1 person marked this as a favorite.
trollbill wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Trollbill

The Dm CAN require a paper character sheet. They do not have to insist on a paper character sheet: they can and probably will be ok with an electronic one. IE neither the DM nor the player are breaking any rules when they use an electronic sheet

I agree. What I mean by 'legal' is: MUST be accepted by the GM versus MAY be accepted by the GM. A GM MUST accept a printed character sheet as a valid character sheet. They MAY accept a non-printed character as a valid character sheet.

Please provide a link to the source post where you are garnering your interpretation ... that would be helpful

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

2 people marked this as a favorite.
trollbill wrote:
godsDMit wrote:
trollbill wrote:
godsDMit wrote:
trollbill wrote:
godsDMit wrote:
trollbill wrote:

What those two statements DON'T mean together is that:

1) A Hero Lab character sheet on a electronic device is legal (it is already accepted that GMs are not required to accept non-printed character sheets).
2) Using Hero Lab to keep track of your buffs, conditional modifiers, HP, etc. is legal.

Im in complete disagreement with you here.

If Mike meant you could print out HeroLab sheets and use those he would have specified it. Since he didn't, that means (unless Tonya wants to clarify otherwise) that running from the program on your laptop or tablet is fine, so long as you have a paper copy for backup in case the power dies or the GM wants to see the paper copy.

Mike said you MUST be able to supply a printed character sheet. He did not say you must be able to supply a printed character sheet UNLESS you are using Hero Lab.

Can you link to the post you are using as a reference?

Yes, and that was for the express purpose of making sure that you could pass it to the GM for their perusal if they wanted access to your sheet and not wanting to take the risk of dropping your laptop or tablet. Nowhere did he say you MUST use the paper copy.

You are correct, he did not say you must USE a paper copy. He said only a paper copy was a legal character sheet. Thus a GM may, if they so choose, refuse to accept someone using a different format other than the printed form. Now as far as I am aware of, Nefreet is the only one to actually make use of that right. But since he does GM at major conventions like GenCon then him having that right is relevant.

Personally, I would not do such a thing and think GMs should allow them, but again, that doesn't mean Nefreet doesn't have the right to refuse them. If was, after all, Nefreet's refusal that forced the ruling in the first place.

Please link to the statement by Mike that only paper copies are legal character sheets.
He did not use those...

can you provide a link to the reference you are using?

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Mulgar wrote:
Thea Peters wrote:
Keith Apperson wrote:
trollbill wrote:
This does not jibe with Mike Brock's statements on the matter. How do you reconcile this?

His intention is that if the GM asks to see your character sheet, you must be able to hand him a character sheet, on paper, legible and up to date.

(The below isn't against you, but a general explanation)

What I do at the table during gameplay is completely separate from that.

If I keep track of hit points in pencil, dry erase, rolldown dice, abacus, or HeroLab during the session, that's my business.

If buffs are managed by handouts (my mesmerist), standup notecards (a local cavalier/paladin/buff monster), Paizo's Buff Cards set next to the battlefield, someone reminding every round, or me checking a box in HeroLab, that's my business.

The only requirement is: I must be able to hand the GM a paper character sheet for them to audit. I must be able to provide the GM with my calculations and numbers for whatever I'm doing (DC on a spell, Save, Attack). Anything beyond that is saying 'you're playing wrong' with no rules to back it.

Thea Peters wrote:
As far as I'm aware (and other posters have stated) HeroLab is a legal form of character sheet -- just not a legal source document for providing references
Technically, by Brock, it is not if the GM would like to look at your sheet. They could accept it (many will), but they are perfectly valid in saying 'I do not want to handle your $200-$1200 electronic device, please hand me a piece of paper'.
That is on the GM and the player at that point, that still doesn't give a GM the right to refuse to sit a player that is using HeroLab
It does if you can't show a paper copy when requested.

Your opinion

Mine differs

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

trollbill wrote:
Thea Peters wrote:
Keith Apperson wrote:
Thea Peters wrote:
I've been around since the beginning. I didn't agree with it then, and I don't agree with it now.

I know you've got history, I just know some people miss particular threads and rulings. :)

I still agree. Not having this as a written rule would reduce the amount of rules in the campaign, make things more accessible, and cause less tension between players and GMs.

People will argue with examples of bad players or ones that are irresponsible (I had a similar player to the one with the folded up character sheet - his animal companion was, at most, 18 numbers total on a sheet of paper). Having a rule then being able to bend the rule, rather than having 'common sense' and 'encouraging and helping' a player gives some GMs more of a feeling of control I think.

If a player does that at my table at GenCon and I am able to bend a rule, then assist them, letting them know 'not everyone will be as nice', it may be more encouraging for them to get in line than 'I don't understand this, it'd be nice if you had it on a character sheet' and getting 'well, no rule says I have to'.

In today's electronic world, can we really kick a player from the table for not having a paper copy of his character? My opinion, no, we can encourage them to have it for power reasons, Gm audit, etc. But I don't feel that we as GMs have the right nor will I ever kick a player from my table for not having a paper copy.

Doing so just because there is a a rule that alludes to the face you can isn't right

I think you are preaching to the choir, but Mike was forced to make a ruling and he chose the answer that best protected GMs and Paizo from liability.

Then it's on the player if they want to take that chance .. knowing that a GM could have issues with it. But that still doesn't mean, to me at least, that we can refuse a player a seat at the table.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Keith Apperson wrote:
Thea Peters wrote:
I've been around since the beginning. I didn't agree with it then, and I don't agree with it now.

I know you've got history, I just know some people miss particular threads and rulings. :)

I still agree. Not having this as a written rule would reduce the amount of rules in the campaign, make things more accessible, and cause less tension between players and GMs.

People will argue with examples of bad players or ones that are irresponsible (I had a similar player to the one with the folded up character sheet - his animal companion was, at most, 18 numbers total on a sheet of paper). Having a rule then being able to bend the rule, rather than having 'common sense' and 'encouraging and helping' a player gives some GMs more of a feeling of control I think.

If a player does that at my table at GenCon and I am able to bend a rule, then assist them, letting them know 'not everyone will be as nice', it may be more encouraging for them to get in line than 'I don't understand this, it'd be nice if you had it on a character sheet' and getting 'well, no rule says I have to'.

In today's electronic world, can we really kick a player from the table for not having a paper copy of his character? My opinion, no, we can encourage them to have it for power reasons, Gm audit, etc. But I don't feel that we as GMs have the right nor will I ever kick a player from my table for not having a paper copy.

Doing so just because there is a a rule that alludes to the face you can isn't right

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Keith Apperson wrote:
Thea Peters wrote:
Then it's a bad rule ... as it flys in the face of "inclusive" and "don't be a jerk" and needs to be reviewed and revised imo
I agree. If you weren't around for that ruling (wouldn't blame you for not reading the whole thread), it was a 'We need a ruling on this!' situation. People pushed for an official ruling instead of using common sense, so we got this. Brock ruled in a way to protect the GMs in the best way possible - putting the responsibility on the players.

I've been around since the beginning. I didn't agree with it then, and I don't agree with it now.

While I'll be the first one to say the onus for character proof is on the player .. there are times that it pays to be considerate and work with the player rather than relying on rules that were merely made to quiet the online masses.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Keith Apperson wrote:
Thea Peters wrote:
At that point, if you were on my table, I'd hike my butt up out of my chair .. walk around and leaving the tablet on the table look at the reference.

I understand and agree with you. I could use the standing and sitting a bit more than I do already, I'm sure. I would do the same.

The question isn't on the 'ways GMs can make it work', the question is: would a GM be justified doing this. The straight, Rules, black and white version is: Yes, a GM could reject a player for not having a paper character sheet, by the rules.

Then it's a bad rule ... as it flies in the face of "inclusive" and "don't be a jerk" and needs to be reviewed and revised imo

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

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Michael Hallet wrote:
Keith Apperson wrote:
Technically, by Brock, it is not if the GM would like to look at your sheet. They could accept it (many will), but they are perfectly valid in saying 'I do not want to handle your $200-$1200 electronic device, please hand me a piece of paper'.

While I agree, here is what still confuses me about that position. I hand the GM my paper character sheet. Upon looking it over, they see something that they are not familiar with and ask to see a copy of the rule.

Guess what I'm going to hand them? My tablet. Because there is currently no requirement that I have to print out copies of the pages from my PDFs. (I don't own hard copies of any of the books.) So you haven't really solved the problem the ruling claims to solve.

Maybe someone who is a lawyer can do some quick pro bono work for his fellow gamers and draft a waiver of liability that GMs could hand to players to sign that would absolve the GM from any incidental or accidental damages that may occur as a result of the GM needing to handle the players electronic equipment. (Of course laws could be different enough in different jurisdictions, especially international, that who knows how feasible this would actually be.)

At that point, if you were on my table, I'd hike my butt up out of my chair .. walk around and leaving the tablet on the table look at the reference.

I am in the camp of not wanting to handle someone else's expensive electronics ... but if there is a way I can avoid the potential of dropping said electronic and still review the reference I'll take it upon myself to do so.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

godsDMit wrote:
trollbill wrote:

What those two statements DON'T mean together is that:

1) A Hero Lab character sheet on a electronic device is legal (it is already accepted that GMs are not required to accept non-printed character sheets).
2) Using Hero Lab to keep track of your buffs, conditional modifiers, HP, etc. is legal.

Im in complete disagreement with you here.

If Mike meant you could print out HeroLab sheets and use those he would have specified it. Since he didn't, that means (unless Tonya wants to clarify otherwise) that running from the program on your laptop or tablet is fine, so long as you have a paper copy for backup in case the power dies or the GM wants to see the paper copy.

That's my understanding .. and I've never seen it written as a rule anywhere that a GM can refuse a player a spot because they are using an electronic character sheet. At that point, if they loose power ... they can switch to a pregen (at least in my games cause ... well don't be a jerk about it).. and remind the player to have a printed copy in the future

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Keith Apperson wrote:
Thea Peters wrote:
That is on the GM and the player at that point, that still doesn't give a GM the right to refuse to sit a player that is using HeroLab

It depends on which part you're talking about. If they do not have physical copies of their character sheet? Yes, they could. Brock STRONGLY ENCOURAGES people to work the player, but they are not meeting the requirements and could be handed a pregen or asked to leave.

If they do meet the first requirement and are additionally using HeroLab, the GM has no leg to stand on (As The Fox states).

Working with the player -- leaving the tablet on the table and scrolling through it instead of picking it up

Being a jerk -- saying you can't sit at the table because you use Herolab ...

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Keith Apperson wrote:
trollbill wrote:
This does not jibe with Mike Brock's statements on the matter. How do you reconcile this?

His intention is that if the GM asks to see your character sheet, you must be able to hand him a character sheet, on paper, legible and up to date.

(The below isn't against you, but a general explanation)

What I do at the table during gameplay is completely separate from that.

If I keep track of hit points in pencil, dry erase, rolldown dice, abacus, or HeroLab during the session, that's my business.

If buffs are managed by handouts (my mesmerist), standup notecards (a local cavalier/paladin/buff monster), Paizo's Buff Cards set next to the battlefield, someone reminding every round, or me checking a box in HeroLab, that's my business.

The only requirement is: I must be able to hand the GM a paper character sheet for them to audit. I must be able to provide the GM with my calculations and numbers for whatever I'm doing (DC on a spell, Save, Attack). Anything beyond that is saying 'you're playing wrong' with no rules to back it.

Thea Peters wrote:
As far as I'm aware (and other posters have stated) HeroLab is a legal form of character sheet -- just not a legal source document for providing references
Technically, by Brock, it is not if the GM would like to look at your sheet. They could accept it (many will), but they are perfectly valid in saying 'I do not want to handle your $200-$1200 electronic device, please hand me a piece of paper'.

That is on the GM and the player at that point, that still doesn't give a GM the right to refuse to sit a player that is using HeroLab

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I'd be interested in seeing the citation that allows a GM to not sit a player for using HeroLab.

As far as I'm aware (and other posters have stated) HeroLab is a legal form of character sheet -- just not a legal source document for providing references

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

I'll 2nd the welcome. This is a wonderful community and while we may have our disagreements, we can all agree that we've chosen a wonderful game.

Another resource page that might be helpful is the Player Resources

warhorn.net is also another useful tool for finding games

And as Deighton mentioned there are VOs for your area that can help you get into games as well.

Good luck and happy gaming

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Griffin Rider wrote:
Seamus_Muadhen23 wrote:
Goodbye Nick! You have been a great Venture Captain and grown the game tremendously, promoted the sale of Paizo products vigorously and your presence as VC will be missed now that you have resigned.
Indeed Nick is sorely missed. I came back from holiday hiatus (retail manager) to find a community that went from 5-6 tables at the main venue every week and 3 satellites running a couple tables each to what looks like trouble forming 2 tables at the main venue. Sad state of affairs. Good luck in your future endeavors Nick Green and Felix Adam.

Nick is missed, however, PFS play in Knoxville is regrouping and will soon be back as strong as ever :) Have no fear.

If you have questions or concerns please let me or the local VL know

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

We have been busy in East TN organizing all three of our areas and there are a few announcements to be made

Chattanooga has it's first round of VAs

Harold Ervin and Albert Hastings

Knoxville has some new management as well

Stephen Wight has stepped into the VL position
Ron Hall has stepped into a VA position

Murfreesboro is growing as well

Timothy Travis is our new VL in Murfreesboro
Kit O'Brien is our VA for Nashville State and also our roving VA as she will be traveling with me to our other two areas

Michael O'Brien is also helping me a ton with all of the new duties and while he doesn't have an official title; he is, has and will be extremely valuable in keeping me sane!!!

Congratulations all of you

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Nohwear wrote:
Seth Gipson wrote:

I do not envy your situation, James.

As to the condemnation of the area VO (James), I must speak up in his defense. I dont know him personally, nor do I know anything regarding the situation outside of what is posted here, but a blanket 'shame on them for not doing something' is NOT acceptable.

Unless you are one of the three (?) people in this thread from the area, you likely dont know the full story, so saying someone is doing a bad job when you have no idea what is going on is rude and ignorant.

A year or so ago, my region had a similar problem. I would get messages from someone who had started up our weekly Tuesday night group that some of the people in thye group had messaged him complaining about various other people in the group. These were sessions that none of the area VOs attended.

I posted a messaage in our FB group asking everyone to keep in mind that the table GM's word is law, but aside from that (and I told the guy who contacted me this as well) that there was very little I could do.

None of the players were banned from the store, so the store will allow them to play.
I cant force them to stop having the game sessions. If the GM wants to run and players show, I cant prevent that.
If the players, despite their extreme dislike for each other, want to show up and play with each other, I cannot prevent that.

The same thing is going on here with James' area. He can tell those people that they arent invited all he wants, but unless the store is going to ban them from playing or bothering the PFs group, then if there is a GM willing to run and at least one other player willing to sit with them, despite James' ban, he (we, anyone) cannot stop them from playing PFS.

If I am understanding you right, you seem to be saying that unless the game store cooperates, this lodge is domed? I mean, what do you do if players are so disruptive that other people stop showing up? Is there really nothing that can be done unless things actually get bad enough to...

I don't believe that Seth was saying that the Lodge is doomed, nothing is EVER as dire as that.

No matter what the full story is (and we'll more than likely never know the totality of the situation), we cannot say that any VO is doing a bad job. There are easy things as a volunteer and there are hard things; this is one of the hard things.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Are you going in under your sessions tab, or your gm/event coordinator tab?

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Zirlock wrote:

After 2015's marathon weekend session to start the Rise of the Runelords AP, I'm thinking what I will do for 2016. Can anyone confirm if a Venture Agent will count as a Venture Officer for running Specials like Bonekeep, etc?

And after listening to Jessica Price on Know Direction interview from last week, I'm putting Tonya Woldridge and John Compton in the text of my post as that is, apparently, the best way to attract the attention of a particular Paizonian :-)

Apologies if that was a trade secret......

Z

Venture Agents are officers, however do not have the star bonus as part of their VO reward package. So a VA would still need to have the required stars to run said exclusive

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

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Bad breath is easy .. *pulls out pack of gum* anyone want some?

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

coughing up blood is also a sign of someone coughing hard and causing small tears in their esophagus (have coded it 5 times today alone) so not always a sign of TB

Other symptoms of TB could include

Coughing that lasts three or more weeks
Coughing up blood
Chest pain, or pain with breathing or coughing
Unintentional weight loss
Fatigue
Fever
Night sweats
Chills
Loss of appetite

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

So what all this basically boils down to is when you are at walgreens or cvs or wherever. .. spend the extra buck fifty on a nose and mouth mask and keep your sickness to yourself.

Everyone is happy ... the crud doesn't spread and we can go back to talking about the smelly people

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

I try to have things reported before the next gameday .. Sometimes life throws curveballs and things happen, but I always try to get reporting caught up as quickly as possible.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Serisan wrote:
Thea Peters wrote:
I don't know persay if you can request they leave .. .an alternative is that the paper masks people wear tend to be relatively cheap ... buy and carry a box with you and ask him to wear a mask if he's going to be at the table while sick

If the player has already invested in numerous types of medicine, I think it's unreasonable to foist consideration of other peoples' health on the GM. The player should be responsible for getting his/her own mask.

A suggestion to give the player a mask was just that ... The GM could also wear the mask himself, but doing a lot of talking means that he'll be muffled, which is why I went for offering the player the mask

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

I don't know persay if you can request they leave .. .an alternative is that the paper masks people wear tend to be relatively cheap ... buy and carry a box with you and ask him to wear a mask if he's going to be at the table while sick

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