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Queen Elvanna

Thea Peters's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber. FullStarFullStarFullStarFullStarFullStar Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee. 1,317 posts (3,311 including aliases). 3 reviews. No lists. 2 wishlists. 13 Pathfinder Society characters. 1 alias.


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The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

I think it was in Season 2 that it was discontinued ... but there may be someone with different information. I know both of my characters that had that have been retired...

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

1 person marked this as a favorite.
ChaosTicket wrote:
Quentin Coldwater wrote:
ChaosTicket, dude, just accept that PFS might not be for you and move on.
Well if I dont play the Pathfinder society Campaign I cannot play Pathfinder at all, and RPG groups are slim around where I live. When I said earlier this is what I can get, I meant it. But I have to face it that the only RPG available to me is too inflexible. It really is disappointing as I mentioned earlier when I joined the group I asked alot of questions about things I would be allowed to do, but havent been allowed to do so. Were they lying or was the context not about Pathfinder Society but Pathfinder as a whole?

John asked you a bunch of questions to try and help clarify things and help you with your answers. You might try answering his questions so he can help you with this.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

ChaosTicket wrote:

Since I started playing In the Pathfinder Society Ive had problems with the numerous house rules limiting me. I want to make some difficult but rewarding characters like A Sorcerer and Bard but scenarios often are combat heavy. Characters I like become redundant and ones I dont I have to play so I can win.

If you are out to "win" then you're possibly coming in with the wrong mindset. Try changing your mindset to "having fun" and "relaxing with friends" and see if that changes your attitude.

My first character is a sorceress, with the exception of a couple of spells, she is 99% pure CRB. She was challenging, enormously fun and had I made different choices when creating her wouldn't have been as fun. A lot of times it's about your feat, or spell or whatever choices that can make or break a character.

I've seen bards played as pure support character and stood there in combat with a glass of wine and a guitar being support and helping that way. Not every character has to be the special snowflake that takes the spotlight. Sometimes it's nice to let others at the table shine instead of always having to be the special snowflake.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

This may help as it contains what I have a feeling you're already trying to do

Link wiki site

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

2 people marked this as a favorite.
EricMcG wrote:


A downside is that newish players look to me as an experienced player and often ask "How does <weird ability> work with <new class and/or archetype>?" resulting in a "I have no idea." response. I am not particularly apologetic about it, GMs are not responsible to buy every bit of paper Paizo sells.

Instead of simply saying you don't know. Ask the player if the have the reference for said "fluffy item". If they don't suggest they email the local coordinator with their question. If they do have the reference read over it quick, give a "this is my interpretation but you may want to ask Local VO for clarification" comment. Makes for better community relations between GM and players.

It is true that GMs are not required to buy every piece of Paizo paper available, as GMs we are looked at as someone that is able to interpret what is written on the pieces of Paizo paper.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

What Jack said.

We cannot, as GMS and coordinators, refuse a player a seat based on the GMs not having the references for the character they are playing. The GM is required to have the core assumption at the table. All other resources needed for a player to play his character is the responsibility of the player to provide should there be a question by the GM.

The GM can always look at the PRD to bone up on the basics of the class; and if he has questions ask the player for the Occult book (or whatever book) reference for the class/feature. If the player cannot provide the reference then the GM can refuse to let that character be played or feature to be used. But as long as the player has the appropriate resources he should be allowed to sit and play

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

You might contact your local VC/VL/VA to see what is going on in the area that might have racial boons available. Smaller conventions get them, larger gamedays can get them. It's not just all about the larger conventions. But the local people will know better what's available in your area than I would.

Thoughts about not liking crowds:
My sister-wife hates crowds; with a passion beyond belief. She has massive social anxiety and doesn't like new people, let alone crowds of new people. I talked with her about Gencon when she showed a minor interest. Explained how it worked, how the crowds wouldn't be that overwhelming; etc.

She agreed to go, and did just fine (aside from some knee pain from not being able to find her brace). She marshaled so was constantly having new people coming up to her and she was having to interact with them.

Her report was that Gencon "wasn't as bad as she thought it would be" which I'm taking as a win lol.

I understand not liking crowds of people, perhaps getting together with someone local who has been to the convention that can explain what you're going to be facing when walking in may help in getting in there and going for it. It may not (depends on your psyche I would suppose), but it may and that would open up more options for you than just what is available from the core and the guide (have you checked out the additional races available in the guide?

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

I would look at Auke Tenniga as the closest RVC

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Rei wrote:
Eh, now that I look over it, we scheduled 36 tables (not sure if all of those fired) for Ropecon this year, inclusive of the 7 tables of Sky Key Solution - which took place a literal week before GenCon, by the way. We always miss out on the juicy new stuff because our big annual event is right before GenCon, so it actually feels really familiar to lose out on this special until next GenCon as well.

I would have your local VC or coordinator talk to the region RVC. I'm not promising anything on behalf of the RVC, but it never hurts to ask; worse they can do is say no, best case exceptions can be made due to area. But you won't know until you ask

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Gary Bush wrote:
Another suggestion is to somehow have people able to help new players figure out how the whole chronicle thing works with their characters, especially those casual players who only play at cons.

There is always the giant info booth at the front of the room; I know there was a challenge in having enough HQ and GM volunteers since we couldn't split out time and do both this year; setting aside more volunteers to just sit and wait for someone to come over isn't time/labor efficient

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Sin of Asmodeus wrote:

That's poor planning Thea. I understand the idea behind it, but over all, that's not the best way to handle people who had to race through traffic to make it.

I would recommend holding until ten minutes into the slot before seating generics.

That's my own opinion, and only a suggestion, but hopefully one that holds merit.

I'll let Bob, Jon, or Todd respond as I don't have the official answer for you.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Sin of Asmodeus wrote:

Bob,

The 8 am start time is ok. But ending at 1am is too much. Less than six hours of sleep will drag on people. Please end at midnight.
The boon for the interactive felt bland, and wasn't worth the ten dollars for the slot to be honest. If we're going to make people stay up until almost 1am, can we start to have exciting unique boons available for the special? I'd really love to see a special race boon available for playing premiere events at Gen Con.
Hopefully that's something you folks can look into.
Also. Mustering. What times do generics go out? My room got double booked and I ended up staying thirty minutes north of Gen Con. So getting to the morning slot at 803 am and being told that I couldn't be seated with a real ticket was a kick in the pants that got resolved but shouldn't be happening.

Generics were held and seated on the hour .. any real tickets that came up after the slot start time (again on the hour) were considered late and were seated with the generic ticket holders.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Mike Bohlmann wrote:

I had a great PFS experience playing 5 slots at Gen Con this year. Having the full list of scenarios and mustering points made finding my muster points very easy. One of my GMs was marginal, but he made up for it in improvising something interesting from the Medium's haunt channeler ability.

My only complaint is in how solo tickets were handled. I was told to wait until the same time as generics to be seated despite there being tables with 1 or 2 seats available. I mostly used generics outside the specials, but I bought an actual ticket for one scenario thinking that would take off some of the rush of getting seated at the start time. Once a table of 4 is seated, it seems like actual tickets should be sent as soon as possible to an appropriately sub-tiered open table. It's not a big gripe, but it is one worth consideration I think.

You should have been seated right away as soon as there was a table for you to go to .. sorry that you were mis-informed. The caveat to that being if you had a ticket for scenario Y and were trying to get into scenario Z those we treated as generic tickets.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

BigNorseWolf wrote:

5) Robyn thought the Sagamore was too cold. I am a polar bear so this was of no concern to me, personally. I don't think Tim or Tom had strong opinions about the room's temperature, and none of us are sure if that's even in PFS's power to control. Just a bit of feedback.

Too cold= Grab a sweater. Too hot= geeks taking off more clothes and sweating more.

Sweater is by far the better option!!! :)

Lol .. it was a bit nippy .. even with all the people in there .. but for all the years we've complained about it being too hot, this was an improvement-- granted an over-improvement.

We found cloaks which worked down in the vendor hall; but next time we'll have hoodies or something to throw on

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

kevin_video wrote:
One of the things I had started to bring with me was session sheets for everyone to sign, instead of printing the ones at the end of the scenario. These allowed you to do three at a time, instead of just one. Saves so much paper. Unfortunately, I can't do that any more. Recently, whenever I make an event, no session pages are made for me. I thankfully saved one from back in 2015, and I just cross everything out that's not relevant, but I liked having those available. If we change up factions again, I'll be doing a lot more crossing out.

Also, once you have reported the "fake" table, save the pdf copy of the tracker sheet to your desktop or another appropriate folder and then you always have it available to print out and don't have to continually re-download it lol

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

I've been having fun marshalling again this year. So far I have to say it feels like it's going super smooth and everything is flowing nicely. It's wierd cause I haven't been yelled at yet hehe.

Brought 2 newbies with me and they are having a blast!!

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

I tend to have different needs depending on the role

As coordinator:

I have a tote box with all my books
I have a tote with all the pregens, tracking sheets and some extra stuff -- welcome to pfs boon, quick start guide, ITS sheets, my alea tools

My GM stuff fits in a large military pack

my binder of characters
dice
dice tray
guide

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Andrew L Klein wrote:
So if I don't buy all the needes flip maps (for I think 3 scenarios, that'd get expensive), I should bring a blank grid then? Haven't looked to see what maps are used in mine, but my luck not a single flip map will be used in multiple scenarios lol

You'll need to make sure you have all the maps you'll need either hand drawn or flip-map/map-pack format. Don't plan on being able to get into the vendor hall on Thursday to pick up what you don't have; that's generally the worst day lol and the Paizo booth will be uber busy.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

JERRY WAYNE 333 wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
JERRY WAYNE 333 wrote:
So how does the four-volunteer-GMs-to-a-room at the Westin work? Do they roll in a couple of sleeping cots or do you have to cozy up in one of the double beds with one of your just-met-five-minutes-ago roommates? Do I need to bring a sleeping bag?

You share a bed.

Cuddling optional.

I've been doing this for years and never had a problem with a roommate hogging too much of the bed. Of course for me it's usually walk in, brush teeth, and *whoomph* straight to sleep from exhaustion.

I don't know how my wife is going to feel about me farting in bed with another while alseep, I think that was even in our wedding vows.

If you're wierded out at the thought of sharing; then bring a sleeping bag or air mattress. One can request a cot; but with the number of people they may or may not have enough to accommodate everyone and you may be left in the lurch if you don't plan ahead.

In general though; by the time everyone gets to the room to crash for the night -- doing anything funny isn't even a thought as you are exhausted and just want to get your 3 hours of sleep before you get up to hit it for another day

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Quote:


You can attempt that. You're better off buying actual tickets if you want to be sure you get a seat at the table. Also note that some scenarios cost more than $6 (specials).

What are the tickets for exactly? "PFS event" or "3.154 death by pie tier 10-11"

I suppose i'll be able to see the scheduel when i have my badge?

There is a supermarket .6 miles north of the hotel apparently.

If you buy a slotted ticket, they have the game that you are playing (i.e. 3/1 FrostPaw Captives Tier 15). If you buy generics they are just that you can use them for any event held at Gencon you aren't just limited to PFS events

The Exchange

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
ChaosTicket wrote:

Heh, when I think about my threads I can usually sum it up in one sentence.

Would you play with me as I am or do I have to change for you?

I belong more in Tactical RPGs or tabletop games. If I could find somebody playing Battletech I would fit better there. Here Im trying to ignore the people saying Im wrong for not writing up backstories, and for trying to make powerful characters. That about sums up most of the responses Ive gotten from A Pathfinder Society page of Facebook. Even if people dont say it, the additional limitations placed on Pathfinder Society support that.

I think you'll find a wide variety of acceptance within the larger PFS community. You asked us a question about what we would do. Several people told you they try to tailor their games or their gameplay to those at the table. I don't think a single person has told you that you are wrong in not creating a backstory, or wrong that you prefer the more tactical aspects.

Personally when I first started GMing I really shied away from role play heavy social scenarios to GM because I wasn't good at it. I eventually got over it; but for a long time I much prefer the combat heavy scenarios because I was good at that. We would have gotten a long great then and we would get a long great now because I've grown as a GM and can tailor things better for the overall party make up.

If you want to think that people are telling you that you are wrong then feel free, but no one has told you that you are wrong nor would they or should they in my opinion. People play differently, if we were all the same it would be pretty freaking boring.

The one thing you have to remember going into PFS or any other organized play. The company is the ultimate GM and we are just players in their home game. They have rules for their home game just as any other home GM would have rules. To play at the table you have to abide by the rules. If you feel the rules ruin your gaming experience you have the option of walking away from the table.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
ChaosTicket wrote:

I have this habit of asking questions I already know and hope for a different, more hopeful result. I asked if you punished(negative), or tolerate(neutral), but not if you encourage(positive) it.

Im under the assumption that I am a Power Gaming, Min-maxing, Munchkin, and everyone else either is or will be Shakespearean actors.

The non-linearity of a Role Playing Game should be encouraging to everyone, but you still see people with the desire players be actors not gamers. I asked alot of questions to DMs for Dungeons and Dragons as well as Pathfinder before I really became determined to play RPGs. One question was "Do you reward players for acting, doing creative actions, or fighting well?". I dont see that in Pathfinder Society much. As this are standardized so much going above-and-beyond in any way only earns you self-rewards.

The nature of the public forums (including facebook) is that if you ask an ambiguous question you are going to get more than you bargained for for as an answer.

With that in mind with so many people that play this game and read and respond to posts on these forums (and facebook) you are inevitably going to come up with answers that either you don't like or cause you to question your original point of view.

The best answer any one can give you is going to be from their personal experience and then simply to say that your personal mileage may vary as different GMs have different ways of handling things. No two GMs are going to give you the exact same answer or handle things in the exact same way.

Asking for a black and white answer is going to get you all the grey in the world and never be clear; take what you want from the answers you were given to your question; but in the PFS side of Pathfinder things will vary, in the Pathfinder side of Pathfinder things will vary -- it's the nature of the game

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Fromper wrote:
I'm assuming we'll get the scenarios we're supposed to GM added to our downloads for free. When can we expect that to happen? I've got one that's already available, and pretty complicated, so I was hoping to start reading it very early, hopefully within the next week or two.

Generally; in the past, it's happened w/in a couple weeks of the show. That might change this year, but err on the side of caution and assume it won't happen early

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Mark Stratton wrote:
Swiftbrook wrote:

Make sure you bring a printed copy of the scenario you are running.

I've been at tables with good GMs just using a tablet.


  • Things are missed and it takes longer. Even after I asked, the GM missed the "4-player adjustment".
  • Flipping between pages takes longer. Then you have to flip back to where you were. Time wasted while you flip though rules and scenarios is time not spent gaming, eating, and walking the dealer hall.
  • Tablets require power. You wont have access to an outlet it in the ballroom. Can you run 3 slots (17 hours) without a recharge?

I'm sure you can bring up exceptions to every one of my points if you want. Just don't plan on using a tablet for everything. Bring a printed copy of the scenario. Use your tablet for looking up rules - they're good for that.

GMs should run the scenario from the format best suited to their GM style. However, bringing a printed copy is a necessity. There won't be outlets for a GM (or player, for that matter) to charge a tablet/laptop/phone, and even if one is nearby, you won't be able to run power cord from it to your table.

Swiftbrook brings up some legitimate concerns, but many GMs can run from a tablet without a problem. The requirement to bring a printed copy relates specifically to the lack of ability to charge, or to keep charged, a device.

This is handy advice for players as well ... especially now that the paper copy requirement has been waived I'm sure we're going to be seeing a lot more players with only electronic character sheets -- but w/out that paper copy they could be in trouble.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

hrm ... just cause I was curious .. I was doing some maths ... you might fight it cheaper to drive by the time you figure roughly 3 days on the road (2 nights in hotels); roughly 140 gallons in gas, food and drinks on the road -- and when I did the google search for distance it said flight started at 584 -- that's like an extra 200 you save by flying you can spend in the vendor hall lol

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

2 people marked this as a favorite.

One thing; drinking is HUGE at Gencon -- and I'm sure I'll be contributing my share of the money, however, I do caution to pace yourself -- Doing anything (GMing, HQing etc) at Gencon while still hungover sucks.. I've done it (and like the ones that suggest not GMing ever slot) I don't recommend it lol

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Gary Bush wrote:
4 kinetics in any adventure is bound to be fun.

And all gnomes

giggles and falls off the couch

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

LOl .. I've got 4 kinetiscts that are playing The Twisted Circle

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

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Michael Eshleman wrote:

Last year I volunteered for all 10 slots (including all 4 specials). I was released from three of those slots, but in two of them I stepped in to run tables in need of a GM. One of them was Scions of the Sky Key Part 1; the other was during Serpent's Rise when I ran various Phantom Phenomena quests cold.

I believe that I used my other released slot to take a nap! :)

There is still a large core of GMs that do what needs to be done to get the Con to go off -- I remember my early days of conventioning and stepping up to make sure it happened.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Venture Officers can have private home/store games just the same as any other player can have private home/store games. They can also play PFS scenarios during these private events as well.

The problem with this would come in if they were doing the private invite-only games in lieu of public games. As long as they are still supporting public games there should be no problems.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

The major reason is that they fixed a lot of things with the Summoner class.

If that is the one that you really want to play the best advice is going to be buy the book; you can get the PDF for not a whole lot of cash.

Without knowing which books you got as there were different levels. The sorcerer is an awesome class and has summoning as well as the wizard.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

jcg wrote:

"The campaign recognizes the use of technology in the Pathfinder Society organized play program and the variety of tools available to players. However, a player must possess a clear and legible character sheet that they are comfortable giving to a GM to review. There is no standard character sheet format required. Regarding electronic devices, if you are not comfortable with a GM viewing (and perhaps briefly handling) the device in order to review your character information, you should consider keeping character information in a format you are willing to hand to a GM."

So regardless of the 600+ opinions in the thread, reading Tonya's message above, as long as I'm comfortable handing my tablet/laptop/device to the GM I no longer need to bring a paper copy of the character sheet, correct?

But chronicle sheets should still be brought in paper form even if scanned in and available?

Correct .. however, I would implore people to remember the GMs that may not be comfortable handling someone elses' electronic item and bring the paper copy anyway

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

LOL

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Nohwear wrote:
I would appreciate it if people would politely and constructively attack my idea for a one time total wipe of your number. If it is a bad idea, or just too much hassle, I would like to know why.

My personal opinion in the idea of a total wipe is no.

I think it creates a layer of meta game that doesn't need to be there with knowing what happened within the scenario. In addition, as one who has played games after I've GM'd them, it's honestly just not as much fun to play a scenario when you know what's coming; there is no challenge.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

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gatherer818 wrote:

I haven't read all the previous threads on this topic, but I've read this one and was surprised not to see something mentioned: a per-character replay option. Not "unlimited replay", which sounds a bit much, but also making it where you never have a situation where you can't level a character up because they've played everything they can reach.

Or perhaps an option to replay a scenario you played at the lower subtier, but you have to play at the higher subtier and you only get the difference between the two - ST 6-7 gold MINUS the ST 3-4 gold, plus you get the 6-7 items but you don't get a second of each "limit 1" from the 3-4, and you can't claim the same boons again but if you complete a different boon you can get it.

I know as a bit of a "completionist" myself I'm already wary about running in the lower subtier because I'm permanently locking off rewards from all my characters every time I do. My highest level character only has three Chronicle Sheets and I'm already worried about it, even though I plan to also GM, so that helps mitigate it a little. A per-character replay would also allow those items that fit perfectly into certain builds to be discovered and then obtained, so there's a lot less guesswork in trying to pick the right character to get the right rewards.

I imagine this has probably been advanced as a theory before, but not having seen it yet myself, I might as well throw it in the ring.

PS: It might be better imagined as something like 3 or 5 runs of the same scenario, but none of them on the same character. This would be more complicated (you'd have to check more than just the one character's Chronicle Sheets), but also prevent "unlimited replay" by virtue of making 20+ characters.

Originally (waaaaayyyyy back in the day) you could replay each scenario once per faction -- so 5 times with a different character of a different faction. That, quite honestly, created tons of problems (personally I'm happy to retire the two characters that have cross-over chronicles it was confusing).

The biggest problem with doing this was that by the third time you played a scenario it was hold hat.. you knew what was going to happen, you knew how to prepare your character and the only thing different was the faction mission; which wasn't all the interesting.

I was happy when the replay rules were changed and don't see a reason to change them. My opinion is that, while everyone gives back in their own way to their community, stepping up to GM if you've played 6.5 seasons of scenarios might be a good idea.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

James Martin wrote:
captnchuck67 wrote:
still waiting to see if I was accepted. I just hope Paizo does not pull on me what they did last year.
What did they pull on you? And if you wish to GM PFS at GenCon, you might want to start GMing elsewhere to gain some experience. I'm not seeing any GM Stars on your profile.

No offense intended, but having stars or not having stars isn't an indicator of being a GM :) Just someone who may not have GM'd much.

I'm sure anyone of any experience level will be welcome to join the ranks of Gencon GMs, we all had to start somewhere

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

ConNooga is back and PFS is there

Sign-ups can be found ConNooga

Signup now and reserve your spot!!!

Hope you see you there

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Bumping as less than a month way OMGOSH

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

In a loud room (such as a convention) I'll get up and lean into the middle of the table to read the long parts -- this way I don't have to speak as loud (saving my voice some) and the players can all hear me.

The trick is to not read down into the table ... but look up and read "out" to the table.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Nefreet wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
You do NOT! Have the right to turn someone away using Hero Labs.
I do, I have, and I will continue to do so.

Well, this blew up over night. I'm at work and haven't read the 124 posts since I made this one, but I wanted to expand on it before the thread gets locked.

I don't work for HeroLab. I *volunteer* for Paizo. I have volunteered thousands of hours for them thus far. I have -zero- obligation to promote, endorse, or support -any- third party product, including HeroLab.

And I have every right to speak out against it.

But what gives you the right to refuse a player a seat based on their use of the program? I.e. what post or rule are you basing this on. If it's your personal preference than that goes against the spirit PFS in my opinion

The Exchange

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Report a dummy table .. you'll get the link to download the session tracker

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

trollbill wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
trollbill wrote:
godsDMit wrote:
trollbill wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Trollbill

The Dm CAN require a paper character sheet. They do not have to insist on a paper character sheet: they can and probably will be ok with an electronic one. IE neither the DM nor the player are breaking any rules when they use an electronic sheet

I agree. What I mean by 'legal' is: MUST be accepted by the GM versus MAY be accepted by the GM. A GM MUST accept a printed character sheet as a valid character sheet. They MAY accept a non-printed character as a valid character sheet.
Please provide a link to where it says paper copies must be accepted and electronic ones can be rejected just cause they are electronic.

It has been provided previously, but here it is again:

Mike Brock's post on the matter

Michael Brock wrote:
While we require that players have physical chronicle and character sheets, we want it to be as easy as possible for anyone to come to a PFS game and play Pathfinder! So if someone comes to your table without a printed character sheet, we strongly encourage you to find a way to include them in the game and then advise them of the rules for future games. We want everyone to feel welcome in our PFS community.

It does not say "we require that players have a physical or electronic chronicle and character sheet," ergo the GM is only required to accept physical chronicles and character sheets.

For interpretation purposes this was all started by a thread where Nefreet express his right, like he did in this thread, to refuse electronic character sheets. The debate got heated to the point that another thread was started specifically to answer this question and Mike was forced to make a ruling. It was a ruling he didn't like making and most of the posters didn't it either but is was made, none-the-less.

Again,
...

And arguing a bad rule based on it being a rule ... is bad form..

I'll echo the previous poster .. I'm done with this discussion, it's pointless

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Ok .. so Mike said that physical sheets are required.

No where in that thread does he say that physical sheets are the only legal character sheet.

No where in that thread does he say that you cannot use an electronic character sheet

No where in that thread does he give permission for GMs to refuse a player a seat because they do not have a paper copy

what he does say

Quote:

Mike Brock

While we require that players have physical chronicle and character sheets, we want it to be as easy as possible for anyone to come to a PFS game and play Pathfinder! So if someone comes to your table without a printed character sheet, we strongly encourage you to find a way to include them in the game and then advise them of the rules for future games. We want everyone to feel welcome in our PFS community.

Which to me means figure out a way to make it work and let the player know that they need to have a paper copy in the future. To me this does NOT mean that I have the right to refuse the player a seat at the table nor does it give me the right to say that they cannot use their electronic character sheet.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

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trollbill wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Trollbill

The Dm CAN require a paper character sheet. They do not have to insist on a paper character sheet: they can and probably will be ok with an electronic one. IE neither the DM nor the player are breaking any rules when they use an electronic sheet

I agree. What I mean by 'legal' is: MUST be accepted by the GM versus MAY be accepted by the GM. A GM MUST accept a printed character sheet as a valid character sheet. They MAY accept a non-printed character as a valid character sheet.

Please provide a link to the source post where you are garnering your interpretation ... that would be helpful

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

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trollbill wrote:
godsDMit wrote:
trollbill wrote:
godsDMit wrote:
trollbill wrote:
godsDMit wrote:
trollbill wrote:

What those two statements DON'T mean together is that:

1) A Hero Lab character sheet on a electronic device is legal (it is already accepted that GMs are not required to accept non-printed character sheets).
2) Using Hero Lab to keep track of your buffs, conditional modifiers, HP, etc. is legal.

Im in complete disagreement with you here.

If Mike meant you could print out HeroLab sheets and use those he would have specified it. Since he didn't, that means (unless Tonya wants to clarify otherwise) that running from the program on your laptop or tablet is fine, so long as you have a paper copy for backup in case the power dies or the GM wants to see the paper copy.

Mike said you MUST be able to supply a printed character sheet. He did not say you must be able to supply a printed character sheet UNLESS you are using Hero Lab.

Can you link to the post you are using as a reference?

Yes, and that was for the express purpose of making sure that you could pass it to the GM for their perusal if they wanted access to your sheet and not wanting to take the risk of dropping your laptop or tablet. Nowhere did he say you MUST use the paper copy.

You are correct, he did not say you must USE a paper copy. He said only a paper copy was a legal character sheet. Thus a GM may, if they so choose, refuse to accept someone using a different format other than the printed form. Now as far as I am aware of, Nefreet is the only one to actually make use of that right. But since he does GM at major conventions like GenCon then him having that right is relevant.

Personally, I would not do such a thing and think GMs should allow them, but again, that doesn't mean Nefreet doesn't have the right to refuse them. If was, after all, Nefreet's refusal that forced the ruling in the first place.

Please link to the statement by Mike that only paper copies are legal character sheets.
He did not use those...

can you provide a link to the reference you are using?

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Mulgar wrote:
Thea Peters wrote:
Keith Apperson wrote:
trollbill wrote:
This does not jibe with Mike Brock's statements on the matter. How do you reconcile this?

His intention is that if the GM asks to see your character sheet, you must be able to hand him a character sheet, on paper, legible and up to date.

(The below isn't against you, but a general explanation)

What I do at the table during gameplay is completely separate from that.

If I keep track of hit points in pencil, dry erase, rolldown dice, abacus, or HeroLab during the session, that's my business.

If buffs are managed by handouts (my mesmerist), standup notecards (a local cavalier/paladin/buff monster), Paizo's Buff Cards set next to the battlefield, someone reminding every round, or me checking a box in HeroLab, that's my business.

The only requirement is: I must be able to hand the GM a paper character sheet for them to audit. I must be able to provide the GM with my calculations and numbers for whatever I'm doing (DC on a spell, Save, Attack). Anything beyond that is saying 'you're playing wrong' with no rules to back it.

Thea Peters wrote:
As far as I'm aware (and other posters have stated) HeroLab is a legal form of character sheet -- just not a legal source document for providing references
Technically, by Brock, it is not if the GM would like to look at your sheet. They could accept it (many will), but they are perfectly valid in saying 'I do not want to handle your $200-$1200 electronic device, please hand me a piece of paper'.
That is on the GM and the player at that point, that still doesn't give a GM the right to refuse to sit a player that is using HeroLab
It does if you can't show a paper copy when requested.

Your opinion

Mine differs

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

trollbill wrote:
Thea Peters wrote:
Keith Apperson wrote:
Thea Peters wrote:
I've been around since the beginning. I didn't agree with it then, and I don't agree with it now.

I know you've got history, I just know some people miss particular threads and rulings. :)

I still agree. Not having this as a written rule would reduce the amount of rules in the campaign, make things more accessible, and cause less tension between players and GMs.

People will argue with examples of bad players or ones that are irresponsible (I had a similar player to the one with the folded up character sheet - his animal companion was, at most, 18 numbers total on a sheet of paper). Having a rule then being able to bend the rule, rather than having 'common sense' and 'encouraging and helping' a player gives some GMs more of a feeling of control I think.

If a player does that at my table at GenCon and I am able to bend a rule, then assist them, letting them know 'not everyone will be as nice', it may be more encouraging for them to get in line than 'I don't understand this, it'd be nice if you had it on a character sheet' and getting 'well, no rule says I have to'.

In today's electronic world, can we really kick a player from the table for not having a paper copy of his character? My opinion, no, we can encourage them to have it for power reasons, Gm audit, etc. But I don't feel that we as GMs have the right nor will I ever kick a player from my table for not having a paper copy.

Doing so just because there is a a rule that alludes to the face you can isn't right

I think you are preaching to the choir, but Mike was forced to make a ruling and he chose the answer that best protected GMs and Paizo from liability.

Then it's on the player if they want to take that chance .. knowing that a GM could have issues with it. But that still doesn't mean, to me at least, that we can refuse a player a seat at the table.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Keith Apperson wrote:
Thea Peters wrote:
I've been around since the beginning. I didn't agree with it then, and I don't agree with it now.

I know you've got history, I just know some people miss particular threads and rulings. :)

I still agree. Not having this as a written rule would reduce the amount of rules in the campaign, make things more accessible, and cause less tension between players and GMs.

People will argue with examples of bad players or ones that are irresponsible (I had a similar player to the one with the folded up character sheet - his animal companion was, at most, 18 numbers total on a sheet of paper). Having a rule then being able to bend the rule, rather than having 'common sense' and 'encouraging and helping' a player gives some GMs more of a feeling of control I think.

If a player does that at my table at GenCon and I am able to bend a rule, then assist them, letting them know 'not everyone will be as nice', it may be more encouraging for them to get in line than 'I don't understand this, it'd be nice if you had it on a character sheet' and getting 'well, no rule says I have to'.

In today's electronic world, can we really kick a player from the table for not having a paper copy of his character? My opinion, no, we can encourage them to have it for power reasons, Gm audit, etc. But I don't feel that we as GMs have the right nor will I ever kick a player from my table for not having a paper copy.

Doing so just because there is a a rule that alludes to the face you can isn't right

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Keith Apperson wrote:
Thea Peters wrote:
Then it's a bad rule ... as it flys in the face of "inclusive" and "don't be a jerk" and needs to be reviewed and revised imo
I agree. If you weren't around for that ruling (wouldn't blame you for not reading the whole thread), it was a 'We need a ruling on this!' situation. People pushed for an official ruling instead of using common sense, so we got this. Brock ruled in a way to protect the GMs in the best way possible - putting the responsibility on the players.

I've been around since the beginning. I didn't agree with it then, and I don't agree with it now.

While I'll be the first one to say the onus for character proof is on the player .. there are times that it pays to be considerate and work with the player rather than relying on rules that were merely made to quiet the online masses.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Captain, Tennessee—East Tenessee

Keith Apperson wrote:
Thea Peters wrote:
At that point, if you were on my table, I'd hike my butt up out of my chair .. walk around and leaving the tablet on the table look at the reference.

I understand and agree with you. I could use the standing and sitting a bit more than I do already, I'm sure. I would do the same.

The question isn't on the 'ways GMs can make it work', the question is: would a GM be justified doing this. The straight, Rules, black and white version is: Yes, a GM could reject a player for not having a paper character sheet, by the rules.

Then it's a bad rule ... as it flies in the face of "inclusive" and "don't be a jerk" and needs to be reviewed and revised imo

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