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Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
Okay so I've narrowed it down to either ranger or slayer. I'm leaning more towards ranger, but I'm not sure.
Not to diminish the slayer, but I don't see them as good archers, or even switch hitters. If you really want to play a ranger they are a solid choice, personally I'd never choose one over a vanilla fighter.
My favorite archers are:
The best non caster archer in the game is a sohei. Dex> str>con>wis improved initiative, reactonary trait, and you'll go first almost everytime. Always act in surprise round, and flurry rapid many shot + gloves of dueling.
Best part a sohei doesn't need to be Asian themed since it's more of a marauder style flavor.
I'm confused... Is this a "monks suck" thread? I thought we were past these...
Anyway monks are good; martial artist, sohei, tetori, zen archer, maneuver master, master of many styles, sensi, drunken master and monk of the 4 winds are awesome builds for monks. Then add on quinggong for added flexability.
In play full attacking won't become a viable option until you can dimension door, if you choose to build that way. The katana will be the best option for damage assuming you don't want to stack dex. The claws can be used when placed into a position for a full attack. If you want to max your dps use smoke bomb with moonlit stalker feint to Max your sneak attack damage and to hit.
this guy wins the thread!!
I'd love I MEAN love to see a dragon on full plate. All that sexy ASF would totally neuter the dragon.
Quite a few builds that let thrown weapons shine, even at really high levels.
Raving dork ( I think) made a rock thrower that is slightly different and better then the above posted rock thrower.
I built a ninja waves oracle that tosses 8 shuriken at level 7 from obscuring mist scoring SA for every landed shuriken. Then clustered shots allow you to ignore the need for dr bypassing materials or enchants. One issue is getting your to hit high enough past level 10, but you make up for it by volume of attacks.
Well s!*~ my life oracle, invulnerable rager, rage prophet just blew the doors off this game with Devine protection lol.
Here is the loophole to the vow of poverty monk in pathfinder. If the monk has an item crafter in the party, you can stack as many magical effects on that one item as you can afford. You can have an amulet of mighty fists, resistance 5, natural. Armor, ect... As long as someone else pays for the upgrades.
My solution to this whole issue is to put the danger back into spell casting. Teleport into a wall? Bam dead! Cast wish for anything loophole screw you hard. Cast a spell and fail possibility of the magic hurting you, fly gets dispelled?? You fall like a rock and go splat.
Paizo babies spell casters now, and that shouldn't be the case.
You need to update this guide to include an armored character. Mithril Brest plate, moms monk archetype with tiger and dragon styles can hurt so bad with tiger claws and smite evil. Str=cha >con>dex>wis>int tiger style adds mobility and a massive "pounce" like slap to the face. 4x str 2x unarmed damage, power attack at 2.5x and 2x smite evil. Easily over 100 dpr at level 12. I can't remember the exact damage against an evil or chaotic target but it hurts.
The mount is just icing on the cake, ignore the mount aspect and notice that you get to act in surprise round... Every time, you get weapon training and the ability to flurry while wearing armor. Rapid shot and many shot stack. A 15 sohei/5 weapon master fighter gets 3 more attacks then a normal fighter on a full attack, Then ki pool to make that 4 more.
And half your level to initiative, monk saves, and true strike,bark skin,restoration, or any other qinggong abilities you like.
Not trying to convince you to play a character you don't want to play, I'm just showing you that their is more then 1 or 2 benefits to playing a sohei.
A mother option you could try is a sohei/fighter it doesn't have any spell casting and it's a slightly superior archer, the best non caster archer IMO.
It's sohei 6 fighter 14 (or ranger). You can get. The most attacks per round possible with this build at full bab and dex as your primary stat. A brutally effective character for DPR.
I really like the war priest, they will be my new monk class until the monk gets overhauled in the unchained book (if they are actually coming out).
As for pally versus war priest, my suggestion is this.
Think what you want your character to do, then choose the class that best represents that character. I like duel wielding kukuris so a war priest will be much better for that then a pally, but if I want sword and board a normal pally is much better then a war priest.
Right because anti magic =\= magic. Supernatural? You bet, but still not magic.
K177Y C47 wrote:
Not at all how it works. Hamatula applies the grappeled condition not the maneuver. No different then being blinded, you go straight to the conditions section and skip the combat rules for initiating a grapple.
You don't teleport the target, and it's key for non casters to take down flying targets.
The most powerful character in all of pathfinder is an Archer EK.
Trapper ranger 1/wizard 5 /eldritch knight 4/arcane archer 2/eldritch knight 6/arcane archer 2.
17 bab, 9th level spells, complete flexibility and able to over come just about any situation presented. You can be the rogue, the skill monkey, the face, and even the front liner of you focus on transmutation or conjuration (to summon meat shields). Best character I've ever built, and the most powerful I've ever played by a wide margin.
Ninjas do this really well, so a slayer should do it better. My suggestion would be to go for snapping turtle style ASAP and spend the majority of your resources to max your grapple mod.
The best thing about pathfinder is that you can play the character you want and your gm can adjust for it, and if it's Pfs then you won't be challanged very much in each module.
@Artimas moonstar, fighter have access to spell sunder now it's a s*!*ty version that you can do once per day, but it's there.
And I think a lore warden fighter grappling a colossal dragon may get moans and grones from you fellow players, but a 200lb human pinning a 20,000 ton dragon it about as far from reality as you can get, but it's a legal option in the rules.
I think adding more "vital strike" style standard attacks that have great secondary effects woul be a step in the right direction, although slightly anime-ish
I hate this mentality that Martians are defenseless at level 10+. One I built a fighter who other then weapons and armor, and the generic 6 magic items was able to solo a valor at 17. He doesn't need anyone to protect him in combat. Is he the pinnacle of DPR? No but I'm not narrow minded in my character building.
Now it would have been cool if I had something more to do in combat, like named strikes or attacks the combined maneuvers and conditions, because we was kinda Boeing with his, move hit, move hit, move hit, move hit, combat style.
If you can understand what autocorrect butchered, I'm typing on my phone
A ninja shiriken thrower with smoke bomb, flurry of shuriken, and a gos mask can deal massive damage on a fullround action every round that the smoke bomb is active. Fog spells work as well, but you need to dip oracle for water sight or sorcerer for that build to work well.
Clustered shots is the only thing that makes this build viable in the mid to late game unfortunately.
Combat patrol is an amazing tanking feat, it's great for defensive builds and for demolishing casters. When used in conjunction with teleport Tactician you can lock down demons devils and high level casters once they enter into you threatened space. For a pole arm fighter is a brutal combo, just be sure to max you movement speed and take lunge to capitalize on you mobility provoking radius.
I like your character, but my question is... Why not pure life oracle since you plan on not attacking. Tanking wisdom woul net you a higher dex, and you could have more power ful healing abilities. Golden elemental, favored class bonus from aasimar would net +3 d6 on your channel positive, buff spells would be accessible from you lost of spells know. No apps from casting in melee, and a free quicken cure spell per day.
In one combat round you coul cast cure x wound (swift) elemental heal or swift channel ( move) and cure x (standard no aoo) that will get your fighter off the ground and up to full hp in one round.
On a phone autocorrect really butchered this post lol
left out a substantial amount of facts from that little display.
*what stats does the zen archer have? because im looking at 4 stats minimum. or if you tank strength and deal little to no damage, as an awesome archer that you are.
* and far shot? i think you kinda proved my point about not knowing what youre talking about...
in conclusion the sohei is an all around better character. in the worst case the sohei is only slightly behind the zen archer, for 3 levels then pushes him down and steals his lunch money past level 3.
... poor argument is poor.
strength is much more valuable to a zen archer then wisdom is to a sohei. extra damage is a necessity for archery to be effective.
a 3rd level armorless monk wont have much more then a ring of protection AT BEST while a sohei will have 4+ more AC without any magic at all. assuming your character will have WBL isnt much of an assumption.
whether or not you're convinced is irrelevant. a -1 to hit for 4 levels is nothing in comparison to what you gain by going sohei. not to mention that -1 is negated by the need to use a secondary stat to hit with for the first 2 levels as a zen archer.
going in surprise round and an initiative bonus alone makes the sohei a better archer at low levels.
quite a bit actually.
yeah you lose out on 2 points of bab, until you get to flurry with your bow, but you gain:
*initiative bonus, and auto acting in surprise round.
only thing zen archer gets at low levels that makes it better then a sohei is the feat choices for free bonus feats, but since hes going with fighter anyway those choices become mute since they have equally good function from the sohei class features.
a human sohei can have point blank and rapid shot at 1st level, or be a functional switch hitter using melee and point blank + precise shot, while having a higher ac by a wide wide margin. a 3rd level sohei can have a mithril buckler, chain shirt, dodge, and a +4 dex ac of 20 versus a zenarchers what 16 (18 if you really minmax and ruin your damage ability)?
lets not forget that you have to use dex (which is lower then wisdom) until 3rd level. sohei gets his primary stat to attack from level 1.
how did you arrive at the conclusion that you are a crappy archer until 5th?
you completely forgot the ability to go first on basically every surprise round you dont roll a one. and that feat that lets you get a full attack when you can act in surprise, knocking your DPR through the roof.
"barbarians" invented beer and mead, so i think that would be a very fitting combo.
alchemist isn't really a good fit because beer isn't an alchemical substance. its just a cooking process.
they have a good spell list for clerics, one that makes beer and a few other good spells for helping you make beer anywhere.
a rage prophet may be perfect for your character.
James Risner wrote:
sohei would have been a much better choice for this character.
1. scout archetype fixes this, by not needing to go first in surprise2. a half orc with the toothy trait and out flank can hit 3x attacks, at level 3, against a flatfooted flanked opponent which makes up for the lack of and doesn't need to move to any particular position to make it work.
3. see answer 3, also to boost your ac get the rogue trait offensive defense.
4. dimensional dervish can fix that, you need to dip into horizon walker for it, but it makes up for a lack of mobility in the rogue.
5. when going up against things immune to SA you need to have a backup plan, any number of options exsist like:
basically stack your HP, and con. all you want to do is make your con as high as possible, then your hexes, spells, and combat surviveability go through the roof.
one option for a seriously powerful caster would be to go one level of barbarian and use a cord of stubborn resolve to rage cycle when ever you decide to use a hex.
+2 to your save dc for all hexes and martial weapon proficiency + up to medium armor proficiency which is great for you is you decide to go with arcane armor training. celestial plate would be my armor of choice in that case.
then you have additional feats like tenacious survivor, +2 to con while raging(forgot the name), and the best of all ability focus for a +2 more to your hex save dc.
the issue is that your making an inference, i see no rule one way or the other that says magic items don't adjust (resize to me means change size categories) to the wearer.
looks like a gm call to me. and honestly i think the 2d4x100 is to prevent level one characters from looting non magical full plate to bypass the 1k cost. i dont think i would enforce it for magical armor.
*edit* actually after reading the passage you quoted, seems you left this part off...
ooo i actually am working on this exact character as we speak. using stone axes with the fragile quality you can really max your damage with the fragile feats. their names elude me at the moment, sorry.
but you take twf, rapid shot, point blank shot, clustered shot, and the fragile feats.
you want to go with a fighter for all the feats you need, and a few levels of barbarian for the hurler ability.
raving dork made the character im basing this build off of. it is a rock thrower but i dont have the link.
An alchemist could probably work pretty well. The grenadier class gets you a martial weapon prof for free, if you are a dwarf that means dwarven war axe. With throw anything you can hurl that sucker pretty nicely, and when you need a little more boom you have bombs or can strap alchemical substances (like alchemists fire) to your axe whether you throw it or melee swing with it.
damn i completely forgot that grenadier could do that.. i may have to work that into my build.
as for the lack of magical bonuses im thinking a little gm fiat to change the doubling dagger into a doubling axe, or just reskin it.
a bigger explosion? no
let him play an alchemist over a rogue. it can be the same sneaky character, but his bomb fetish wont cost him a ton of gold. oh and they have flame throwers :D i love the grenadiers with the flame discovery that lets the damage stay for an extra round.
you are the gm, if you want his mundane bombs to be bigger you can do that. honestly i see little consequence to that. but he will eat his gold up fast by spending it on "bags of bombs"
How does a GM beat bladebound / kensai?
its very simple, you black blade decides to pull you into a direction away from the party to accomplish its own goals.
you must make a will save every day to avoid being dominated by its ego.
but seriously your characters inherent balancing feature is that you have to deal with having an intelligent blade. its a pain in the @$$ i hate intelligent items!!
high dpr wont help you when your sword decides its time to accomplish its goal. then you have to fight your sword every time the gm decides its time.
here is a list of alllllll the things a gm can pull, not counting rule 0, that can force you to fall in line with what the gm wants.
"Removal of associates or items whose alignment or personality is distasteful to the item.
Force its possessor into combat.