Lincoln Hills wrote:
I consider the oracle a step behind the cleric, power-wise, but since I consider most other classes to also be a bit less powerful than the cleric, I feel no great craving to make the oracle "as good as" the cleric. And I do enjoy the different approaches to divine power - not so much the spontaneous-vs.-prepared approach as the distinction between organized temples of faithful clergy and wilderness-wandering miracle-workers.
the truth of the oracle is that it can fill any role BETTER then a cleric, but a cleric can do all of them at the same time.
and examples of what i mean is:
a metal oracle is a better choice for a melee fighter, then a cleric would be.
a life oracle is better, especially if its an Assimar, then a cleric at healing.
a heavens oracle is better at controlling the battlefield then a cleric
a juju oracle is better then a cleric at reanimations
BUT a cleric can do all of these things well enough with the same character, while the oracle is stuck in that one role they excel at while being mediocre at the other roles.
i like oracles over clerics because i like to have a role in the group and specialize in that role.
DO NOT USE THIS ARCHETYPE!!!
it is better, for what you are trying to do, to play a lore warden or a vanilla fighter. pole-arm master is worthless as an archetype because polefighting and sweeping fiend are worthless.
you can make a much better tripper/bull rusher with a lorewarden + spiked armor. and it would be pretty much the same character with better skills.
i really like a fighter 3/oracle2/barbarian 7
a metal oracle, with armored hulk, and weapon master
you only need oracle for 1 level to get the effect of the revelation. so ask your self what do you want to play. if you want to focus on a few illusion spells and blasting spells then just go oracle. if you wanted to play a sorcerer that uses save or die based spells, you dont even need to dip oracle. or you could try for a mystic thurge, which i personally like but people on the boards dont seem to.
basically how do you see this character in your mind?
awesome display is the reason to go with heavens, you dont need anymore revelations after that.
but since you're asking:
Coat of Many Stars dr5 slashing as amazing for many grapple based creatures.
Lure of the Heavens is amazing, i mean just amazing.
but basically when i was playing my hevens oracle i just dipped 2 levels of oracle and went into ninja, then took the feat that let me move and coupe de grace. that character was brutal, much better then an assassin prestige class character.
color spray, move, coup, next target.
if i had to choose between going with cleaving finish or whirl wind attack i would chose greater cleaving finish. it is the same number of feats for a similar effect.
power attack, cleave, cleaving finish, great cleave, greater cleaving finish is actually easier on your fighter in terms of feats because you dont need to waste one on spring attack or mobility.
and whats best is if you like going for big hits with a reach weapon you can clear the board using combat reflexes in conjunction with greater cleaving finish+spiked armor (or IUS) can net you 20 hits in a round... that is from personal experience.
so basically forget dodge-> mobility-> spring attack -> whirlwind and go for cleave->cleaving finish->great cleave->greater cleaving finish
the most powerful character in the game is a scarred witch doctor by far. i would rather play a scarred witch doctor then a summoner.
but the basic witch is a game changer in your party, i built my wife one and she would misfortune + cackle and ruin the bbegs. but on a lot of smaller enemies she would be at a big disadvantage and would have to play defensively.
i think witches are very powerful, but not OP. i mean who cares about sleep hex when i can play a barbarian,god wizard, cleric, rage prophit, or paladin. all of those classes are much much much more op then a witch... but not a scarred witch doctor.
just remember that when you die again, its going to cost your group thousands of gold to get you back alive, and then 2 thousand more and 2 weeks to remove your negative levels.
you will never truly die from hp damage with that feat, and isnt that the point in the character lol? i mean 28 rounds for your group to finish combat and pick you back up, seems like a worth while investment.
why no tenacious survivor? that is my favorite feat for a high hp diehard character. also if youre willing to dont take diehard and endurance instead dip into 1 level of unbreakable fighter. you get both for free, and then you can grab 2 extra feats. i like extra rage power.
im assuming that youre talking about choke hold? tell your monk to stunning fist the target the round before he tries to choke the target and they wont be able to hold there breath. other then that yes you are right trying to just choke someone out will take longer then the combat will last, but add on neck breaker and you can really speed that up.
a cr 20 red dragon has a dex of an 8, a tetori can deal up to 6 points of dex damage in one round with neck breaker, so as a bad example that wouldnt work for RAW reasons, the toteri could go straight to con damage with 2 neck breaker attacks and comatose the target at the same time.
like i said the dragon was a bad example but you can see how , with neck breaker, a tetori can dispose of a high cr target solo with above average rolls.
so in conclusion if he: stunning fist>choke hold> pinning KO he can deal some serious damage to a large sized target, or i guess for a half giant it would be as big as huge and colossal if he has enlarge person on him.
yeah free hand fighter + magus is a bad idea, much better to just go solid magus.
im a big fan of letting the player say "my bastard sword is really a scimitar in looks". nothing is lost from reskinning gear or fluffing class features to fit the concept.
with that in mind, i would go with a disarming character, and TWF with IUS. they have a few pretty awesome disarming feats in APG and UC. you would need to have a secondary fighting style to makeup for enemies without disarmable objects, but man ive always wanted to see one in play.
you're trying to pick apart an anecdote based on speculation of how you think it happened? how about the dragon was flying towards us from his mountain perch smart guy...
second you're assuming that this dragon was about to "shred" me with his prone+grappled ac when i have 4 other players about to full attack/spell cast on him?
stop trying to "win" the conversation, you last post is pure fallacy. and stating that "one or 2 archetypes" desnt make the class good, doesnt hold weight. the fact is that if you build your monk right it will do what you want it to do well enough.
and i wouldnt call 6 awesome archetypes 1 or 2.
ok so im at work right now, so im going of memmory so bear with me.
13th level monk with dimension door and dimensional agility. once a grapple lands "Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity. A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple. In addition, grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform."
if you cannot move you cannot fly or even hover, so by raw if you grapple a flying creature they hit the ground like a rock. my tetori has Boots of the Cat which allow me to take minimum damage from falling. so the dragon takes xd6 (height/10 -10).
he literally powerbombs dragons.
at 13 he has cmd of 45 and a cmb of 33 (+ true strike as a SLA)which is enough to grab a cmd of 52 on a 2+. my gm was thoroughly impressed, when he was thinking the dragon would just strafe us with fire breath. then i powerbombed the dragon from 400 feet up dealing 39d6 damage.
you may want to tell him that even though his character lost a good friend his character shouldntquit the fight. soldiers lose squad mates and friends all the time. as long as they have a clear goal or objective they dont let that loss effect their mission.
mind you they still feel the loss, they just accept that it is part of "the job" and keep going. new additions are added to the group, or squad, and they continue the fight.
with that being said, if he is using this event to change characters, then that means he isnt having fun with that character. so my advice is to let him change it because this game is all about FUN.
all i have to say is my tetori uses dimention door to grab dragons, then bowerbombs them to the ground, and beats the snot out of them.
he is a pure monk and is the second most bad ass character ive ever played.
you can take all your bs "monks suck" talk over then and bury it.
thunder and fang can net you top damage, you need to waste 2 feats for it.and yes i know it doesnt effect the towershield, but you still get the earth breaker as a one handed weapon.
but other then that, i would focus on bull rushing, and reposition phalanx fighter can accomplish this very well while still having a good trip ability, which when used with pin down and stand still will give you a very powerful tanking character.
ok so i have a tetori with snapping turtle style. now on my turn i:
* move through a threatened space
i then use my standard action to pin the target if my grapple is successful, everything is ok so far... but when does my swift/immediate action rest? is it when the person who won initiative goes or is it one full round from when the action was used, in this case my turn?
you my want to try an oracle for this build. you can go with metal or battle and get full plate and a few other nice revelations to go with the undead smasher/healer type character. you will lose out on channel positive, but it isnt the end of the world as you gain a few really nice boons instead.
ok i just thought of the best class for you to play. it is a paizo class from 3.5 called the death master. it gives you a pretty crazy powerful minnion, a clerics control undead, and a hybrid of arcane and cleric spells.
one draw back is that your spell list is very small, but it has quite a few good spells on it none the less. i think its everything you're looking for.
so you're mad that your fighter doesnt need to carry around fly potions anymore?
i dont get how you feel a feat should be better then a class feature, and im also concerned that you dont see to useful ness of having a fighter or barbarian that can fly without any magic.
that opens quite a bit of wealth and a slot, just for a racial feat.
players: "we search the room"
me: "ok 16 hours later you guys are hungry and fatigued from..."
players: "no no no we meant a quick search, i got a 20"
me: a quick search around the room gives you nothing, but you get the sensation that if you looked in a particular spot you may find something of value"
players: "fine then i move stuff around"
me: "what stuff?"
after a few session of this game, i finally got them to say "i search the pile of rags" type statements. mind you the entire time i was asking them what they were doing i was smiling to get the point across that i was just messing with them.
my vote would be a rage prophet barbarian, more hp then a paladin, hits harder, heals better, better mitigation and last but not least better spell list.
i havent ever played a character as strong as a come and get me rage prophet with a vital strike build.
life oracle/invulnerible rager (or armored hulk) vital strike with furious finish and potions of enlarge person... s++@ gets crazy fast.
Theodor Snuddletusk wrote:
thats not true at all.
obscuring mist takes ALL ranged characters out of combat for a few rounds, hindering terrain will stop melee, any person who has a stonghold or a base of operations, and isnt a complete dumbass, would have counter mesures in place for stopping assults.
should mooks be countering him every time? no, but im not talking about mooks. if he is one hitting the BBEG then the BBEG needs to have stong defenses in place other then AC and HP.
this is my point, you dont do it every time. if he kills mooks in 2 round great, weak combats shouldnt be long, but that BBEG should have defenses in place, magic or mundane, to stop his dps. if this is the case then his gear wouldnt matter much because the gm would be playing in a realistic way that would force the archer to move or try to counter a counter-mesure, so he can actually use his dps.
you dont nerf him, you play his weaknesses more.
ranged characters are very very weak. obscuring mist is a first level spell that will take him out of the fight for a few rounds. ray of enfeeblement will also hurt his dps by making his composite bow less effective. create pit will hurt him due to fighters having a low reflex and force him to climb out and keep fighting wasting a round or 2 of his dps. they have MANY ways to stop a ranged character from owning everything with arrows, and doing so wont ruin his fun. it will force him to start countering the things that he never knew were a bane to his archer.
in conclusion just play smart as a gm and you can , when you find it appropriate, stop his dps and force him to spend time countering your counter measures. so dont think "hes to powerful for my npcs", think about how your npcs would fight a group like this.
Right, ive had this same discussion with 30 other people on the boards, as well as in RL. No one could make heads or tails about how this feat was supposed to work, but i guess the guy who wrote the feat made a post somewhere a year or more ago. I havent ever found the quote so play it how you want to, but this is how i was told the feat works.
which i agree with when used with a reach or ranged weapon, a non reach melee weapons is a little different IMO.
ok so hamatula strike is a very very poorly worded feat that is a very very misleading as to how it works.
"Benefit: Whenever you damage an opponent with a piercing weapon, you can immediately make a grapple check; success means the opponent is impaled on your weapon and you both gain the grappled condition. While the opponent is impaled, as an attack action you may make a grapple check on your turn at a -4 penalty to damage the opponent with your weapon, even if your weapon cannot normally be used in a grapple. "
ok so the feat clearly defines what happens when you make the check, "success means the opponent is impaled on your weapon and you both gain the grappled condition" it DOES NOT SAY you are grappling the target, so the rules for hamatula strike SUPERSEDES the rules for a normal grapple. so basically this feat does nothing but apply the grappled condition , not create a grapple as in a standard action combat maneuver.
its a great feat that is poorly worded and causes a ton of confusion.
this isnt true, you can use spell strike with a 2 handed weapon, you just wouldnt be able to full attack with spell combat.
killing a monk will be very difficult for a low level group. they have the saves to stop casters, the mobility to evade melee and the second highest ac in the game with defenses against ranged characters.
unfortunately i cant tell you what to get to stop the monk because i dont know how he was built, but what i can tell you is create hindering terrain as much as possible, stone call is a great spell for this because it hits a large area and does not allow a save. flank him and make sure you dont try to stand toe to toe with him, as a high level flurry can kill a lower level character that doesnt have an insanely high ac. force him to move as much as possible and buy potions of expeditious retreat so you can catch him if he tries to run away.
you know what after thinking about it for a bit, if you dropped barbarian and went druid you could go with a huge sized elemental form, thats a
oh damn and if you cast moment of greatness then bloodrage would net you a +20 for one attack, that would be nutz.
1. yes it does
you would have a +6 strength if you were a second level rage chemist and +6 from the rage if you were an 11th level barbarian. +12 and the higher level mutagens would also gain this +2 ability.
so if you were playing a 15th level character i think the highest you could get would be ...
11 barbarian = +6 moral bonus when raging
= if all of them do stack, as i think they do, you would be able to achieve a 20+ 25= a 45 strength.
first off, you should be choosing a race that has "extra rage rounds per day" as an alternate class choice, and having more barbarian levels then oracle or rage prophet levels. also you should be rage cycling with the lame curse.
lame curse give you an advantage over a normal barbarian in that you gain the ability to rage then end the rage on your turn, or there turn, to prevent burning through unnecessary rounds of rage during a fight. normal barbarians cant do this until level 12 (i think), also rage cycling allows you to use your guidance ability every round as well.
so while yes you do lose out on the over all number of rage rounds a normal barbarian would have, you gain the ability to be "surgical" with your use of rage rounds. and thats a trade-off i would take every day of the week.
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
hey if i can kill a dragon with my bare hands, i should be able to wield what ever style of sword i want, personally my greatsword is 12 feet long and shaped like a tree trunk that somehow still deals slashing damage.
in conclusion GET YOUR REALITY OUT OF MY FANTASY!!!
(not really shouting, just kidding)
hm... if i played this character i would need to play him as a mymidarch magus, i know i spelled that wrong, otherwise i couldnt get the true gambit feel. i would love to toss shocking grasp and a few other nice spells i could toss on those cards.... man i think ill play this guy in pfs now !!! GRRRR... character number 800