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Tin Golem

TheSideKick's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,697 posts (1,698 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 6 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Shadow Lodge

Quite a few builds that let thrown weapons shine, even at really high levels.

Raving dork ( I think) made a rock thrower that is slightly different and better then the above posted rock thrower.

I built a ninja waves oracle that tosses 8 shuriken at level 7 from obscuring mist scoring SA for every landed shuriken. Then clustered shots allow you to ignore the need for dr bypassing materials or enchants. One issue is getting your to hit high enough past level 10, but you make up for it by volume of attacks.

WOOT WOOT FOUND IT!!

Shadow Lodge

Squiggit wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
what does divine protection do?

+Charsima to all saves. Requires Know:R 5 and access to second level divine spells.

ikarinokami wrote:

ask yourself this question is anyone going to play an oracle because of this feat? the answer is no.

Actually I'm playing a nature oracle in my next game specifically because of this feat. If I can get her turned into a lich I'll get +charisma to everything except physical attacks and skills. Which is pretty cool and silly.

Well s@+@ my life oracle, invulnerable rager, rage prophet just blew the doors off this game with Devine protection lol.

Shadow Lodge

Here is the loophole to the vow of poverty monk in pathfinder. If the monk has an item crafter in the party, you can stack as many magical effects on that one item as you can afford. You can have an amulet of mighty fists, resistance 5, natural. Armor, ect... As long as someone else pays for the upgrades.

Shadow Lodge

My solution to this whole issue is to put the danger back into spell casting. Teleport into a wall? Bam dead! Cast wish for anything loophole screw you hard. Cast a spell and fail possibility of the magic hurting you, fly gets dispelled?? You fall like a rock and go splat.

Paizo babies spell casters now, and that shouldn't be the case.

Shadow Lodge

You need to update this guide to include an armored character. Mithril Brest plate, moms monk archetype with tiger and dragon styles can hurt so bad with tiger claws and smite evil. Str=cha >con>dex>wis>int tiger style adds mobility and a massive "pounce" like slap to the face. 4x str 2x unarmed damage, power attack at 2.5x and 2x smite evil. Easily over 100 dpr at level 12. I can't remember the exact damage against an evil or chaotic target but it hurts.

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Vylent wrote:

@Under A Bleeding Sun - Thats awfully crit focused.... I mean unless you can get a bow pass 19-20 crit range those feats dont seem that effective. unless im wrong and in that case please explain to me why its good and whatnot. I see it as... those feats only benefit me 10% of the time and thats if i confirm the crit everytime.

@TheSideKick - Not sure about that sohei. It looked cool at first and i was all in but then i noticed all the cool stuff the monk would get is negated by the things you get as a sohei. i loved the idea of having an awsome mount but seeing as how i spend most of my time in caves/dungeons/castles/tombs/you get the idea i wouldnt get much benefit out of it. i would have also lost fast movement in addition to not having what the fighter would have given me for those levels.

The mount is just icing on the cake, ignore the mount aspect and notice that you get to act in surprise round... Every time, you get weapon training and the ability to flurry while wearing armor. Rapid shot and many shot stack. A 15 sohei/5 weapon master fighter gets 3 more attacks then a normal fighter on a full attack, Then ki pool to make that 4 more.

And half your level to initiative, monk saves, and true strike,bark skin,restoration, or any other qinggong abilities you like.

Not trying to convince you to play a character you don't want to play, I'm just showing you that their is more then 1 or 2 benefits to playing a sohei.

Shadow Lodge

A mother option you could try is a sohei/fighter it doesn't have any spell casting and it's a slightly superior archer, the best non caster archer IMO.

It's sohei 6 fighter 14 (or ranger). You can get. The most attacks per round possible with this build at full bab and dex as your primary stat. A brutally effective character for DPR.

Shadow Lodge

I really like the war priest, they will be my new monk class until the monk gets overhauled in the unchained book (if they are actually coming out).

As for pally versus war priest, my suggestion is this.

Think what you want your character to do, then choose the class that best represents that character. I like duel wielding kukuris so a war priest will be much better for that then a pally, but if I want sword and board a normal pally is much better then a war priest.

Shadow Lodge

Nope, not true. Supernatural (su) is magic, But I'm talking about the actual term supernatural not the descriptor.

Shadow Lodge

Cheapy wrote:
TheSideKick wrote:
A pure mundane anti caster, using anti magic energy to take the place of the Christmas tree effect at mid to high levels.
A pure mundane character that uses mystical anti-magic "energy" (BUT DON'T YOU DARE CALL THAT MAGIC "MAGIC")?

Right because anti magic =\= magic. Supernatural? You bet, but still not magic.

Shadow Lodge

K177Y C47 wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Gaberlunzie wrote:

Nope.

"If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails)."

Oooh. With Hamatula Strike and a bow, you can accomplish some pretty miraculous battlefield movement. Just shoot an ally 100s of feet away and teleport him right to you.

*SCORPION VOICE*

GET OVER HERE!!!!

*NOOBSAIBOT VOICE*
WHOOPSIES!!!

Not at all how it works. Hamatula applies the grappeled condition not the maneuver. No different then being blinded, you go straight to the conditions section and skip the combat rules for initiating a grapple.

You don't teleport the target, and it's key for non casters to take down flying targets.

Shadow Lodge

A blight Druid who summons vermin, swarms, and infects people with horrible deisease, poisons and curses. I was going to play this character in my evil game soon

Shadow Lodge

The most powerful character in all of pathfinder is an Archer EK.

Trapper ranger 1/wizard 5 /eldritch knight 4/arcane archer 2/eldritch knight 6/arcane archer 2.

17 bab, 9th level spells, complete flexibility and able to over come just about any situation presented. You can be the rogue, the skill monkey, the face, and even the front liner of you focus on transmutation or conjuration (to summon meat shields). Best character I've ever built, and the most powerful I've ever played by a wide margin.

Shadow Lodge

I will get this item on my fighters before I break for my gloves of dueling from now on. I really like this for fighters, rogues and the new variants that are about to be released.

Shadow Lodge

A different rout you may like is to go Viking fighter, with levels in barbarian (or the other way around) opens up a ton of flexibility in how you approach your character.

Shadow Lodge

Ninjas do this really well, so a slayer should do it better. My suggestion would be to go for snapping turtle style ASAP and spend the majority of your resources to max your grapple mod.

The best thing about pathfinder is that you can play the character you want and your gm can adjust for it, and if it's Pfs then you won't be challanged very much in each module.

Shadow Lodge

When you don't focus on DPR you can do great things with a fighter

Shadow Lodge

@Artimas moonstar, fighter have access to spell sunder now it's a s$#$ty version that you can do once per day, but it's there.

And I think a lore warden fighter grappling a colossal dragon may get moans and grones from you fellow players, but a 200lb human pinning a 20,000 ton dragon it about as far from reality as you can get, but it's a legal option in the rules.

I think adding more "vital strike" style standard attacks that have great secondary effects woul be a step in the right direction, although slightly anime-ish

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
KestrelZ wrote:


This leaves the age old power graph of D&D / Pathfinder. At low levels the martial PCs must protect the weaker mages in the group, outshining them in combat. At high levels, mages alter reality and hopefully protect the martials that once protected them.

Is it fair? That's up to debate. Yet it tends to be far more common to have low level play than high level. So odds are, the martial characters would shine longer and more often than mages.

I hate this mentality that Martians are defenseless at level 10+. One I built a fighter who other then weapons and armor, and the generic 6 magic items was able to solo a valor at 17. He doesn't need anyone to protect him in combat. Is he the pinnacle of DPR? No but I'm not narrow minded in my character building.

Now it would have been cool if I had something more to do in combat, like named strikes or attacks the combined maneuvers and conditions, because we was kinda Boeing with his, move hit, move hit, move hit, move hit, combat style.

If you can understand what autocorrect butchered, I'm typing on my phone

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

A pure mundane anti caster, using anti magic energy to take the place of the Christmas tree effect at mid to high levels.

Shadow Lodge

Tiger style has better synergy for a strength DPR build, but you wouldn't be able to combine it with charge. Although a swift action movement which doesn't prevent a full attack is better then a damage boost from this feat.

Shadow Lodge

A ninja shiriken thrower with smoke bomb, flurry of shuriken, and a gos mask can deal massive damage on a fullround action every round that the smoke bomb is active. Fog spells work as well, but you need to dip oracle for water sight or sorcerer for that build to work well.

Clustered shots is the only thing that makes this build viable in the mid to late game unfortunately.

Shadow Lodge

Combat patrol is an amazing tanking feat, it's great for defensive builds and for demolishing casters. When used in conjunction with teleport Tactician you can lock down demons devils and high level casters once they enter into you threatened space. For a pole arm fighter is a brutal combo, just be sure to max you movement speed and take lunge to capitalize on you mobility provoking radius.

Shadow Lodge

I like your character, but my question is... Why not pure life oracle since you plan on not attacking. Tanking wisdom woul net you a higher dex, and you could have more power ful healing abilities. Golden elemental, favored class bonus from aasimar would net +3 d6 on your channel positive, buff spells would be accessible from you lost of spells know. No apps from casting in melee, and a free quicken cure spell per day.

In one combat round you coul cast cure x wound (swift) elemental heal or swift channel ( move) and cure x (standard no aoo) that will get your fighter off the ground and up to full hp in one round.

On a phone autocorrect really butchered this post lol

Shadow Lodge

Kwauss wrote:

Zen archer

Level 1: Flurry BAB +1 (-1/-1), gets PB shot, perfect shot, far shot and mounted combat, can flurry w/bow
Level 2: Flurry BAB +2 (0/0), gets precise shot and weapon focus
Level 3: Flurry BAB +3 (etc), gets PB master, rapid shot (Zen archery is irrelevant, since you'll become a Sohei at level 6)
Level 4: Flurry BAB +4, ki pool and ki range(weak)
Level 5: Flurry BAB +5, ki arrows ability, mounted archery
Level 6: Flurry BAB +6 (+4/+4/-1), weapon specialization, manyshot, slow fall Or
retrain to Sohei, losing many archery feats, but retraining to have PB shot, rapid shot, precise shot, weapon focus, mounted combat, mounted archery, slow fall - can flurry at +4/+4/+4/-1 (w/out ability scores) due to weapon training

Sohei
Level 1: Bab+0, rapid shot at -2/-2, gets PB shot, rapid shot, mounted combat, act in surprise round, armor
Level 2: Bab+1, rapid shot at -1/-1, gets mounted archery, init. bonus, monk powers
Level 3: BAB+2, etc., gets precise shot, monk powers
Level 4: BAB+3, etc., stops getting HTH damage, mount powers, mount ki powers, ki pool
Level 5: BAB+3, etc., gets weapon focus, high jump

Now that I'm looking at this, I'm starting to see what James is doing.

left out a substantial amount of facts from that little display.

*what stats does the zen archer have? because im looking at 4 stats minimum. or if you tank strength and deal little to no damage, as an awesome archer that you are.
*whats your ac?
*sohei skips straight to ride by attack and mounted archery (assuming your campaign isnt a dungeon delve).
* you say that the sohei has to be a human or "you're an embarrassment at archery until level 3" but even with just precise shot a single arrow from a sohei hits at +4 for 7.5 damage, versus your zen archer who until level 3 will only hit for what +2/+2 at 2d8 +2(10 assuming you can actually hit 2 times)for (assuming dex of 3) until you can get that +4 from your wisdom, thats also assuming you tanked you con for strength so you can actually deal some kind of damage.
*what are your HP? i know you think this may not matter for a ranged character but you will get hit also

* and far shot? i think you kinda proved my point about not knowing what youre talking about...

in conclusion the sohei is an all around better character. in the worst case the sohei is only slightly behind the zen archer, for 3 levels then pushes him down and steals his lunch money past level 3.

Shadow Lodge

Kwauss wrote:

All nice, but only one actually compensates you really for being a crappy archer, and the one archery-synergistic ability is 4 levels in. A zen archer (which is poorly designed, as I see it) at least keeps pace with a low level ranger in archery output (and defenses, generally). STR is as important for zen archers as wis is for sohei.

If you're going to make assumptions and hand out items liberally, you probably should make apples to apples comparisons, too.

I'm still not convinced the best path is not 5 levels of Zen then retrain to Sohei at level 6.

... poor argument is poor.

strength is much more valuable to a zen archer then wisdom is to a sohei. extra damage is a necessity for archery to be effective.

a 3rd level armorless monk wont have much more then a ring of protection AT BEST while a sohei will have 4+ more AC without any magic at all. assuming your character will have WBL isnt much of an assumption.

whether or not you're convinced is irrelevant. a -1 to hit for 4 levels is nothing in comparison to what you gain by going sohei. not to mention that -1 is negated by the need to use a secondary stat to hit with for the first 2 levels as a zen archer.

going in surprise round and an initiative bonus alone makes the sohei a better archer at low levels.

Shadow Lodge

Kwauss wrote:
TheSideKick wrote:
Kwauss wrote:

So, if you want to be a crappy archer for 5 levels, then great, take Sohei? Min/Max-wise you should zen until level 5 then retrain at level 6 into Sohei?

Is there something wrong with the rules structures on these archetypes?

how did you arrive at the conclusion that you are a crappy archer until 5th?

Just assuming from the fact that they can't flurry with a bow, so get a lower BAB progression with it, and so make a sub-par archer until they can use full BAB with a bow. I'm not saying they don't fulfill the design of the archetype until then, but that's not a devoted archer. During those 5 levels a fighter or ranger is much better (and isn't as MAD). Am I missing something?

quite a bit actually.

yeah you lose out on 2 points of bab, until you get to flurry with your bow, but you gain:

*initiative bonus, and auto acting in surprise round.
*free access to any mounter archery feat with no prereq's (not that great in dungeon delvs, but amazing in some games)
*light armor proficiency, which does 3 things... first flurry with brawling enchant, what monk/fighter doesn't want that? second SAD stats, no need for wisdom, only dex con and str as stats, which would synergizes with fighter very well. third ability to have energy resistance in the late game.
*ability to use your ki pool to boost your to hit on high AC targets.

only thing zen archer gets at low levels that makes it better then a sohei is the feat choices for free bonus feats, but since hes going with fighter anyway those choices become mute since they have equally good function from the sohei class features.

a human sohei can have point blank and rapid shot at 1st level, or be a functional switch hitter using melee and point blank + precise shot, while having a higher ac by a wide wide margin. a 3rd level sohei can have a mithril buckler, chain shirt, dodge, and a +4 dex ac of 20 versus a zenarchers what 16 (18 if you really minmax and ruin your damage ability)?

lets not forget that you have to use dex (which is lower then wisdom) until 3rd level. sohei gets his primary stat to attack from level 1.

Shadow Lodge

Kwauss wrote:

So, if you want to be a crappy archer for 5 levels, then great, take Sohei? Min/Max-wise you should zen until level 5 then retrain at level 6 into Sohei?

Is there something wrong with the rules structures on these archetypes?

how did you arrive at the conclusion that you are a crappy archer until 5th?

Shadow Lodge

Ukki wrote:
James Risner wrote:
TheSideKick wrote:
sohei would have been a much better choice for this character.

Not in the least, nothing I could get from Sohei would be interesting, useful or beneficial to that character. ;-)

Why not? Sohei gets weapon training at level 6 that allows him to flurry with a bow (and can stack rapid/many shot on top of that flurry unlike the zen archer). For two more monk levels you're getting weapon training three levels earlier than you would with multiclass fighter, and two more attacks when you full attack.

you completely forgot the ability to go first on basically every surprise round you dont roll a one. and that feat that lets you get a full attack when you can act in surprise, knocking your DPR through the roof.

Shadow Lodge

"barbarians" invented beer and mead, so i think that would be a very fitting combo.

alchemist isn't really a good fit because beer isn't an alchemical substance. its just a cooking process.

they have a good spell list for clerics, one that makes beer and a few other good spells for helping you make beer anywhere.

a rage prophet may be perfect for your character.

Shadow Lodge

James Risner wrote:
Mojorat wrote:
The reason they are on the list is nothing requires you stay zen archer. If the plan is to multiclass rapid shot and multishot may be good options.

My Zen Archer had 4 levels of Monk and everything else Fighter and I never flurry his whole life. I did Rapid Shot/Many Shot a lot tho.

sohei would have been a much better choice for this character.

Shadow Lodge

SilentlySage wrote:

The problem I have with sneak attack comes from how limiting it is in practice. I am currently playing my first rogue. I made the mistake of going down the TWF route, thinking it would increase my DPR and make me more viable in combat. I'm a core rogue, to keep Trapfinding and Uncanny Dodge. In theory I can dish out decent damage, but in practice this is what happens:

1. I charge in to get a single attack on an enemy with sneak attack while he's flat footed. Paladin does the same.
2. Now, either a) enemy is dead because of the paladin's massive damage, and I have to move to flank another enemy, getting only one attack again, or b) enemy is still alive.
3. Assuming the enemy is still alive, he can make a full attack and make a 5 foot step diagonally away from me. Now I can't flank him without moving 10 feet. I get one sneak attack again. Any other class that doesn't rely on sneak attack would be able to 5 foot step and make a full attack, while only missing out on the flanking bonus.

Also, if I do manage to get a full attack, but kill the enemy in one or two hits, there's no nearby enemy who is in flanking position. so my other attacks are wasted.

Then there was the time we had to fight an air elemental (immune to sneak attack and has DR). I was completely useless in that battle, only there to provide a flanking bonus. Now I have a wand of Acid Arrow that we found, but still...

I really like my rogue as a character. I have enormous fun roleplaying, interacting with NPCs. With my trapspotting feat, I am great at detecting traps. I can sneak nearly anywhere and tumble around the battlefield easily, but I feel so useless in combat. It gets really frustrating.

1. scout archetype fixes this, by not needing to go first in surprise

2. a half orc with the toothy trait and out flank can hit 3x attacks, at level 3, against a flatfooted flanked opponent which makes up for the lack of and doesn't need to move to any particular position to make it work.
3. see answer 3, also to boost your ac get the rogue trait offensive defense.
4. dimensional dervish can fix that, you need to dip into horizon walker for it, but it makes up for a lack of mobility in the rogue.
5. when going up against things immune to SA you need to have a backup plan, any number of options exsist like:

Shadow Lodge

basically stack your HP, and con. all you want to do is make your con as high as possible, then your hexes, spells, and combat surviveability go through the roof.

one option for a seriously powerful caster would be to go one level of barbarian and use a cord of stubborn resolve to rage cycle when ever you decide to use a hex.

+2 to your save dc for all hexes and martial weapon proficiency + up to medium armor proficiency which is great for you is you decide to go with arcane armor training. celestial plate would be my armor of choice in that case.

then you have additional feats like tenacious survivor, +2 to con while raging(forgot the name), and the best of all ability focus for a +2 more to your hex save dc.

Shadow Lodge

MrSin wrote:


Mana cookies sound delicious though... Can we get that in a cookie form instead of a scroll? Cookies sound more appetizing.

you my friend play too much WoW

Shadow Lodge

wraithstrike wrote:
Sarrah wrote:
I'm not writing about theorycraft. I'm writing about actual game play.

What theorycraft?

That was rule from the book. The rules don't allow for magic armor to resize.

Now if you mean you have houseruled it in your game to allow for resizing of magic armor then I would have the cost of the armor change to whatever it would be at its new size.

As for the question about class abilities the rules are silent, but I would use knowledge arcana for any magic abilities that a class has. I would consider the nonmagical ones to be common knowledge.

the issue is that your making an inference, i see no rule one way or the other that says magic items don't adjust (resize to me means change size categories) to the wearer.

looks like a gm call to me. and honestly i think the 2d4x100 is to prevent level one characters from looting non magical full plate to bypass the 1k cost. i dont think i would enforce it for magical armor.

*edit* actually after reading the passage you quoted, seems you left this part off...
". Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items." this does not say "except magic armor, that needs to be adjusted first"

Shadow Lodge

ooo i actually am working on this exact character as we speak. using stone axes with the fragile quality you can really max your damage with the fragile feats. their names elude me at the moment, sorry.

but you take twf, rapid shot, point blank shot, clustered shot, and the fragile feats.

you want to go with a fighter for all the feats you need, and a few levels of barbarian for the hurler ability.

raving dork made the character im basing this build off of. it is a rock thrower but i dont have the link.

haruhiko88 wrote:
An alchemist could probably work pretty well. The grenadier class gets you a martial weapon prof for free, if you are a dwarf that means dwarven war axe. With throw anything you can hurl that sucker pretty nicely, and when you need a little more boom you have bombs or can strap alchemical substances (like alchemists fire) to your axe whether you throw it or melee swing with it.

damn i completely forgot that grenadier could do that.. i may have to work that into my build.

as for the lack of magical bonuses im thinking a little gm fiat to change the doubling dagger into a doubling axe, or just reskin it.

Shadow Lodge

a bigger explosion? no

more damage?yes

let him play an alchemist over a rogue. it can be the same sneaky character, but his bomb fetish wont cost him a ton of gold. oh and they have flame throwers :D i love the grenadiers with the flame discovery that lets the damage stay for an extra round.

you are the gm, if you want his mundane bombs to be bigger you can do that. honestly i see little consequence to that. but he will eat his gold up fast by spending it on "bags of bombs"

Shadow Lodge

TheSideKick wrote:
Quote:
How does a GM beat bladebound / kensai?

its very simple, you black blade decides to pull you into a direction away from the party to accomplish its own goals.

you must make a will save every day to avoid being dominated by its ego.

gm wins...

but seriously your characters inherent balancing feature is that you have to deal with having an intelligent blade. its a pain in the @$$ i hate intelligent items!!

high dpr wont help you when your sword decides its time to accomplish its goal. then you have to fight your sword every time the gm decides its time.

here is a list of alllllll the things a gm can pull, not counting rule 0, that can force you to fall in line with what the gm wants.

"Removal of associates or items whose alignment or personality is distasteful to the item.
The character divesting herself of all other magic items or items of a certain type.
Obedience from the character so the item can direct where they go for its own purposes.
Immediate seeking out and slaying of creatures hateful to the item.
Magical protections and devices to safeguard the item from molestation when it is not in use.
That the character carry the item with her on all occasions.
That the character relinquish the item to a more suitable possessor due to alignment differences or conduct.

In extreme circumstances, the item can resort to even harsher measures, such as the following:

Force its possessor into combat.
Refuse to strike opponents.
Strike at its wielder or her associates.
Force its possessor to surrender to an opponent.
Cause itself to drop from the character's grasp. "

Shadow Lodge

Quote:
How does a GM beat bladebound / kensai?

its very simple, you black blade decides to pull you into a direction away from the party to accomplish its own goals.

you must make a will save every day to avoid being dominated by its ego.

gm wins...

but seriously your characters inherent balancing feature is that you have to deal with having an intelligent blade. its a pain in the @$$ i hate intelligent items!!

high dpr wont help you when your sword decides its time to accomplish its goal. then you have to fight your sword every time the gm decides its time.

here is a list of alllllll the things a gm can pull, not counting rule 0, that can force you to fall in line with what the gm wants.

"Removal of associates or items whose alignment or personality is distasteful to the item.
The character divesting herself of all other magic items or items of a certain type.
Obedience from the character so the item can direct where they go for its own purposes.
Immediate seeking out and slaying of creatures hateful to the item.
Magical protections and devices to safeguard the item from molestation when it is not in use.
That the character carry the item with her on all occasions.
That the character relinquish the item to a more suitable possessor due to alignment differences or conduct.
In extreme circumstances, the item can resort to even harsher measures, such as the following:

Force its possessor into combat.
Refuse to strike opponents.
Strike at its wielder or her associates.
Force its possessor to surrender to an opponent.
Cause itself to drop from the character's grasp. "

Shadow Lodge

humans are a good alternate to a dwarf. extra skill points, and the extra feat allows you to open up that feat slot for your crafting at level 3,5, or 9.

other then that i dont think they have a core race that is more focused on crafting, except maybe elf. Elves are the go to race for wizards.

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The black raven wrote:
TheSideKick wrote:
but here is the issue, your own opinion of CE is not the same as the definition as written in the book. the book has a clear concise definition of CE. if it doesnt match that definition then it isnt CE. you may choose to alter that as a GM but that doesnt change that fact.
If RAW alignments were so clearly and undisputedly described, we would not have that many alignment threads, I believe ;-)

alignment threads stem from personal morality and opinion. people view alignments in this game not in a RAW mentality like they should, but in a abstract personal view(RAI). thats where alignment threads turn into philosophical debates that span pages.

remember that alignments are black and white in this game, there is no grey unless they gm decides to bend away from that system, which then becomes a "home rules" territory.

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taldanrebel2187 wrote:

Side Kick, I sort of disagree. A lot of CE people are impulsive and violent and hate-filled. But they still don't murder hobo 100% of the time. If so, they'd be immediately arrested or killed. It's the difference between CE and "Chaotic Stupid" in my opinion...

..."Chaotic Evil
If I want something, I take it. Might is right. The strong rule the weak. Respect me or suffer. Fear me. There is only today, and today I take what I need. Anger brings out the best in me. I am the stronger one.

Core Concepts: Anarchy, anger, amorality, brutality, chaos, degeneracy, freedom, profaneness, violence

A chaotic evil character is driven entirely by her own anger and needs. She is thoughtless in her actions and acts on whims, regardless of the suffering it causes others.

In many ways, a chaotic evil character is pinned down by her inherent nature to be unpredictable. She is like a spreading fire, a coming storm, an untested sword blade. An extreme chaotic evil character tends to find similarly minded individuals to be with—not out of any need for company, but because there is a familiarity in this chaos, and she relishes the opportunity to be true to her nature with others who share that delight."

There *is* a strongman NPC (level 9) and the PCs are level 1. I think in time they'll deal with him, but I want the players to realize that CE doesn't mean they turn on each other and murder hobo. I mean heck even CE Goblins and CE Orcs don't murder their young or own kind, right?

but here is the issue, your own opinion of CE is not the same as the definition as written in the book. the book has a clear concise definition of CE. if it doesnt match that definition then it isnt CE. you may choose to alter that as a GM but that doesnt change that fact.

and yes orcs do kill there own kind. they are like lions, they exist in a pride, or society, but once the opportunity presents it's self the male lions will attack and kill, if necessary, to be the top male of that pride. that specific mentality or set of actions is exactly as written in the CE descriptor.

and no im not saying male lions are CE, im saying male lions have a instinct to usurp each other. if lions raped, pillaged, and tortured other lions for fun or profit then they would be CE.

Shadow Lodge

chaotic evil is by nature attempting to dominate one and other. CE will eventually turn into some form of pvp to decide who is "top dog"

chaotic evil:
A chaotic evil character does what his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are likely to be poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.

you need a strong main PC to force the others in line for a CE group to function. usually a CE group should be controlled be a strong LE character, whos code and unwavering adherence to punishing misbehavior will keep the others in check. just make sure they actually want CE and not NE or LE.

NE will be easy to control, as long as they feel the group is a necessity to their own means they will work as a group. once they feel that is no longer the case that NE character will slaughter the lot of them, most likely.

NE is my favorite alignment to play other then LN, because you're Mr. smiles until you don't need to be anymore. the entire campaign that NE alignment should be creating contingency plans and counter measures to "order 66" the group lol.

man NE is fun to play!!

but back to the main question. you can run it as a normal 6-7 person game IF you have a strong main PC, usually LE, to guide them and keep them in check. this PC would need to be the most powerful in combat to function as the leader and be played smart enough to counter their attempts for usurping them. if you can accomplish that it takes a major load off your shoulders.

if every session will be them trying to kill each other it will get old, and taxing on you the gm, fast. so my advice is work with one of your players to be an in game leader and out of game GM aid to ease your burden.

now if you don't have that central PC gluing the chaos together, herding cats i call it, then you may get over your head with GMing.

Shadow Lodge

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Well, let's assume all core races, plus all heritages of Aasimar, and Tiefling.

human would give the best return, nothing any other race offers would help you other then dwarf for the saves and con/wis bump

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FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:
Ah, so it takes 2-3 rounds to get the -12... and it takes two level 3 spell slots.

no it takes one round.

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FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

How exactly are you getting to -12 again? Bestow Curse, shaken, sickened, Evil Eye? How do you do this with one round of combat again?

Bestow Curse is good, but it's not all that. Would you rather have bestow curse or haste for the team? They are both level 3 spells.

Kensai can accomplish a very similar thing, heck, almost any magus can. The only thing that the Hexcrafter has more to offer is Evil Eye (A samsaran magus can get Bestow Curse). Evil Eye is good... but I wouldn't waste a standard action on it unless I was in a group with a lot of save or suck effects.

EDIT: When I say Similar, I referencing debuffing in general.

you can cast bestow curse, since its a touch spell, in your weapon via spell strike. so you start the combat with Bestow Curse active. then spell combat using a second bestow curse.

(-2)shaken,(-2) sickened,(-4) bestow curse,(-6 to save stat of choice) spell combat bestow curse. then follow up next round with a evil eye, if you caster didnt obliterate it with a save or die spell.

Shadow Lodge

Jiggy wrote:
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
Dimensional Agility is the champion for Wizard (Conjuration; teleportation subschool). By level 7-8 you essentially get two move actions on of which is of a teleportation variety. Many, many shenanigans are possible using Shift and Dimensional Agility (which should be permitted together as Shift is describe as in Dim Door).

Shift won't qualify you for Dimensional Agility. You have to be able to cast DDoor, and SLAs count for that, but Shift is supernatural, not spell-like.

So you'll have to wait until you can actually cast DDoor in order to take Dimensional Agility. And since Dimensional Agility references taking actions after "casting" DDoor (rather than just after "teleporting" or after "using" DDoor), you're still restricted to spells or SLAs for getting that benefit.

Consider asking your GM for houserules.

but shift can be done at the end of the round.

dimension door-> full attack-> dimensional shift

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FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

Getting the curse descriptor spells isn't huge, except maybe for brand just for the idea of a non-cheesy touch cantrip.

its alot more then just "one cheezy cantrip". a well built hex crafter can apply a -12 to saves in one combat round. thats a game ender from any bbeg that can be the target of a spell effect.

its more impressive then a pouncing barbarian. when you hit them with a baleful polymorph the next round and it sticks 95% of the time, hp is irrelevant.

its just a super powerful "setup" character who makes everyone in your group better, its why im such a big fan of hexcrafters. you dont get the kill, you let the sorcerer or fighter get it by making the target weaker.

well more like much much weaker.

Shadow Lodge

Helikon wrote:

Do you really really really want to play someone who is about half intelligent, half as wise and half as charismatic as alan in The hangover?

yes it can be quite fun

Shadow Lodge

EsperMagic wrote:
Not sure if its PFS legal since i dont know all those rules but here is Bumi created by RavingDork

in reguards to this character, which i think is pretty bad ass, does a rock have the fragile weapon quality?

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