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Not true at all!!!You can make a very powerful caster killer using a solid fighter. Step up line with teleport tactician and ready actions to stop casting can be enough of a lock down to stop just about any caster. I'm a fan of sword and shield for the ability to go shield master and gain shield bonus to touch ac (tower shield spec).
My caster killer feat build ( changed to include no su)
Then focus on hit and touch ac.
Just as a word of advice, as a gm running a fifth man as a healer you might want to play something like a Druid, they can heal, they can buff, they can support but at the same time they arnt so insanely focused or optimized for those roles that they will ruin the challange of the encounters.
Life oracles are a little too good at healing ect...
Elderitch knight shooting antimagic fields on everything.
My sensei 16/ ninja 2 that let all the martials get true strike and 3 extra standards every turn. Not to mention all the other crap he could do.
Or my tetori who grappled a colossal red dragon and pinned him from 200ft up in the air. 20d6 falling damage followed by a group curb stomping.
Man in the Iron Mask wrote:
Not being able to bash isn't a big deal, unless you were trying for a Twf build. The "reach" you speak of would be more comparable to the lunge feat, not a "reach weapon".
Spartans used short spear not long so you wouldn't need phalanx fighter, actually a tower shield specialist would be more fitting. Don't forget far throw, dead eye shot and vital strike chain for awesome spear throws.
And your 2 flaws are so bad for this type of character. You would miss just about every ranged attack past dusk.
I think my dwarven invulnerable rager 18/ unbreakable fighter is the toughest I've been able to make. 136 hp and dr 6 at 7th level with no magic effects. Average hp per level and a base 18 con score. It really was a fun character in PDA, but a half Orc with tenacious survivor in a home game is just about the toughest character in the game.
My Tetori's CMD topped close to 80 if I remember correctly.
This is what I remember off the top of my head. There is a bunch more that eludes me, I'll look for the sheet when I get off work.
ok sure he has a +20 to CMB, but his cmd is trash while the tetori has an amazing CMB and CMD. Not to mention that low cmb the fighter had won't help prevent the tetori from grappling and slamming that fighter into the ground.
Haha you crack me up, I really don't want to take the time to prove you wrong so if someone could find a link to any number of "tetori are the exception to monks suck" threads I would greatly appreciate it.
Except they dont..
you have no clue my friend
I would say lorewarden fighter is my first choice, for obvious reasons, then I would argue that the magus comes in second with spell strike + lunge + spell lunge. That's base 20, 25 with enlarge person. Empowered intensified maxamized acidic shocking grasp anyone? With a spell storing weapon you could land 2 of them in one hit lol.
A dwarven fighter with crb feats is a great starting point. If they decide in a few levels that they want casting then they have sorcerer and dragon deciple to add casting into their character.
A simple build would be:
Improved iron will
That's all crb, and he will have something to do every round, if they decide that they want to try casting then use feat retraining to remove iron will and go sorcerer. Change uw to rapid shot and improved iron will to arcane armor training, then dragon deciple at 7th or 8th I can't remember all the pre requisites off the top of my head.
A lorewarden is the best tank I've been able to make. Paladins can self heal, barbarians have hp and dr, but fighters are the only class with the tools to lock down at will teleportation.
You just need to shore up your will save and get a couple staple magic items to be good enough to survive against high level casters
Trapper ranger 1/wizard 5(conjuration spec, teleportation sub school)/eldritch knight 4/ arcane archer 2/eldritch knight 6/arcane archer 2
You can detect traps and disarm them using disable device, shoot as a competent archer, control the battle field with god spells, and shut down high level casters and magical monsters using the imbued arrow + anti magic field combo.
Another powerful choice for your character that is very "monkish" is a warblade. The divine spell list mixed with the pummeling style is a very potent combination. Add in dragon or snake style and you can't have a very defensive, or offensive version of the same character.
Edit i meant the archatype sacred fist for the warblade
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
Okay so I've narrowed it down to either ranger or slayer. I'm leaning more towards ranger, but I'm not sure.
Not to diminish the slayer, but I don't see them as good archers, or even switch hitters. If you really want to play a ranger they are a solid choice, personally I'd never choose one over a vanilla fighter.
My favorite archers are:
The best non caster archer in the game is a sohei. Dex> str>con>wis improved initiative, reactonary trait, and you'll go first almost everytime. Always act in surprise round, and flurry rapid many shot + gloves of dueling.
Best part a sohei doesn't need to be Asian themed since it's more of a marauder style flavor.
I'm confused... Is this a "monks suck" thread? I thought we were past these...
Anyway monks are good; martial artist, sohei, tetori, zen archer, maneuver master, master of many styles, sensi, drunken master and monk of the 4 winds are awesome builds for monks. Then add on quinggong for added flexability.
In play full attacking won't become a viable option until you can dimension door, if you choose to build that way. The katana will be the best option for damage assuming you don't want to stack dex. The claws can be used when placed into a position for a full attack. If you want to max your dps use smoke bomb with moonlit stalker feint to Max your sneak attack damage and to hit.
this guy wins the thread!!
I'd love I MEAN love to see a dragon on full plate. All that sexy ASF would totally neuter the dragon.
Quite a few builds that let thrown weapons shine, even at really high levels.
Raving dork ( I think) made a rock thrower that is slightly different and better then the above posted rock thrower.
I built a ninja waves oracle that tosses 8 shuriken at level 7 from obscuring mist scoring SA for every landed shuriken. Then clustered shots allow you to ignore the need for dr bypassing materials or enchants. One issue is getting your to hit high enough past level 10, but you make up for it by volume of attacks.
Well s$!! my life oracle, invulnerable rager, rage prophet just blew the doors off this game with Devine protection lol.
Here is the loophole to the vow of poverty monk in pathfinder. If the monk has an item crafter in the party, you can stack as many magical effects on that one item as you can afford. You can have an amulet of mighty fists, resistance 5, natural. Armor, ect... As long as someone else pays for the upgrades.
My solution to this whole issue is to put the danger back into spell casting. Teleport into a wall? Bam dead! Cast wish for anything loophole screw you hard. Cast a spell and fail possibility of the magic hurting you, fly gets dispelled?? You fall like a rock and go splat.
Paizo babies spell casters now, and that shouldn't be the case.
You need to update this guide to include an armored character. Mithril Brest plate, moms monk archetype with tiger and dragon styles can hurt so bad with tiger claws and smite evil. Str=cha >con>dex>wis>int tiger style adds mobility and a massive "pounce" like slap to the face. 4x str 2x unarmed damage, power attack at 2.5x and 2x smite evil. Easily over 100 dpr at level 12. I can't remember the exact damage against an evil or chaotic target but it hurts.
The mount is just icing on the cake, ignore the mount aspect and notice that you get to act in surprise round... Every time, you get weapon training and the ability to flurry while wearing armor. Rapid shot and many shot stack. A 15 sohei/5 weapon master fighter gets 3 more attacks then a normal fighter on a full attack, Then ki pool to make that 4 more.
And half your level to initiative, monk saves, and true strike,bark skin,restoration, or any other qinggong abilities you like.
Not trying to convince you to play a character you don't want to play, I'm just showing you that their is more then 1 or 2 benefits to playing a sohei.
A mother option you could try is a sohei/fighter it doesn't have any spell casting and it's a slightly superior archer, the best non caster archer IMO.
It's sohei 6 fighter 14 (or ranger). You can get. The most attacks per round possible with this build at full bab and dex as your primary stat. A brutally effective character for DPR.
I really like the war priest, they will be my new monk class until the monk gets overhauled in the unchained book (if they are actually coming out).
As for pally versus war priest, my suggestion is this.
Think what you want your character to do, then choose the class that best represents that character. I like duel wielding kukuris so a war priest will be much better for that then a pally, but if I want sword and board a normal pally is much better then a war priest.
Right because anti magic =\= magic. Supernatural? You bet, but still not magic.