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Tin Golem

TheSideKick's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,674 posts (1,675 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 6 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Shadow Lodge

I like your character, but my question is... Why not pure life oracle since you plan on not attacking. Tanking wisdom woul net you a higher dex, and you could have more power ful healing abilities. Golden elemental, favored class bonus from aasimar would net +3 d6 on your channel positive, buff spells would be accessible from you lost of spells know. No apps from casting in melee, and a free quicken cure spell per day.

In one combat round you coul cast cure x wound (swift) elemental heal or swift channel ( move) and cure x (standard no aoo) that will get your fighter off the ground and up to full hp in one round.

On a phone autocorrect really butchered this post lol

Shadow Lodge

Kwauss wrote:

Zen archer

Level 1: Flurry BAB +1 (-1/-1), gets PB shot, perfect shot, far shot and mounted combat, can flurry w/bow
Level 2: Flurry BAB +2 (0/0), gets precise shot and weapon focus
Level 3: Flurry BAB +3 (etc), gets PB master, rapid shot (Zen archery is irrelevant, since you'll become a Sohei at level 6)
Level 4: Flurry BAB +4, ki pool and ki range(weak)
Level 5: Flurry BAB +5, ki arrows ability, mounted archery
Level 6: Flurry BAB +6 (+4/+4/-1), weapon specialization, manyshot, slow fall Or
retrain to Sohei, losing many archery feats, but retraining to have PB shot, rapid shot, precise shot, weapon focus, mounted combat, mounted archery, slow fall - can flurry at +4/+4/+4/-1 (w/out ability scores) due to weapon training

Sohei
Level 1: Bab+0, rapid shot at -2/-2, gets PB shot, rapid shot, mounted combat, act in surprise round, armor
Level 2: Bab+1, rapid shot at -1/-1, gets mounted archery, init. bonus, monk powers
Level 3: BAB+2, etc., gets precise shot, monk powers
Level 4: BAB+3, etc., stops getting HTH damage, mount powers, mount ki powers, ki pool
Level 5: BAB+3, etc., gets weapon focus, high jump

Now that I'm looking at this, I'm starting to see what James is doing.

left out a substantial amount of facts from that little display.

*what stats does the zen archer have? because im looking at 4 stats minimum. or if you tank strength and deal little to no damage, as an awesome archer that you are.
*whats your ac?
*sohei skips straight to ride by attack and mounted archery (assuming your campaign isnt a dungeon delve).
* you say that the sohei has to be a human or "you're an embarrassment at archery until level 3" but even with just precise shot a single arrow from a sohei hits at +4 for 7.5 damage, versus your zen archer who until level 3 will only hit for what +2/+2 at 2d8 +2(10 assuming you can actually hit 2 times)for (assuming dex of 3) until you can get that +4 from your wisdom, thats also assuming you tanked you con for strength so you can actually deal some kind of damage.
*what are your HP? i know you think this may not matter for a ranged character but you will get hit also

* and far shot? i think you kinda proved my point about not knowing what youre talking about...

in conclusion the sohei is an all around better character. in the worst case the sohei is only slightly behind the zen archer, for 3 levels then pushes him down and steals his lunch money past level 3.

Shadow Lodge

Kwauss wrote:

All nice, but only one actually compensates you really for being a crappy archer, and the one archery-synergistic ability is 4 levels in. A zen archer (which is poorly designed, as I see it) at least keeps pace with a low level ranger in archery output (and defenses, generally). STR is as important for zen archers as wis is for sohei.

If you're going to make assumptions and hand out items liberally, you probably should make apples to apples comparisons, too.

I'm still not convinced the best path is not 5 levels of Zen then retrain to Sohei at level 6.

... poor argument is poor.

strength is much more valuable to a zen archer then wisdom is to a sohei. extra damage is a necessity for archery to be effective.

a 3rd level armorless monk wont have much more then a ring of protection AT BEST while a sohei will have 4+ more AC without any magic at all. assuming your character will have WBL isnt much of an assumption.

whether or not you're convinced is irrelevant. a -1 to hit for 4 levels is nothing in comparison to what you gain by going sohei. not to mention that -1 is negated by the need to use a secondary stat to hit with for the first 2 levels as a zen archer.

going in surprise round and an initiative bonus alone makes the sohei a better archer at low levels.

Shadow Lodge

Kwauss wrote:
TheSideKick wrote:
Kwauss wrote:

So, if you want to be a crappy archer for 5 levels, then great, take Sohei? Min/Max-wise you should zen until level 5 then retrain at level 6 into Sohei?

Is there something wrong with the rules structures on these archetypes?

how did you arrive at the conclusion that you are a crappy archer until 5th?

Just assuming from the fact that they can't flurry with a bow, so get a lower BAB progression with it, and so make a sub-par archer until they can use full BAB with a bow. I'm not saying they don't fulfill the design of the archetype until then, but that's not a devoted archer. During those 5 levels a fighter or ranger is much better (and isn't as MAD). Am I missing something?

quite a bit actually.

yeah you lose out on 2 points of bab, until you get to flurry with your bow, but you gain:

*initiative bonus, and auto acting in surprise round.
*free access to any mounter archery feat with no prereq's (not that great in dungeon delvs, but amazing in some games)
*light armor proficiency, which does 3 things... first flurry with brawling enchant, what monk/fighter doesn't want that? second SAD stats, no need for wisdom, only dex con and str as stats, which would synergizes with fighter very well. third ability to have energy resistance in the late game.
*ability to use your ki pool to boost your to hit on high AC targets.

only thing zen archer gets at low levels that makes it better then a sohei is the feat choices for free bonus feats, but since hes going with fighter anyway those choices become mute since they have equally good function from the sohei class features.

a human sohei can have point blank and rapid shot at 1st level, or be a functional switch hitter using melee and point blank + precise shot, while having a higher ac by a wide wide margin. a 3rd level sohei can have a mithril buckler, chain shirt, dodge, and a +4 dex ac of 20 versus a zenarchers what 16 (18 if you really minmax and ruin your damage ability)?

lets not forget that you have to use dex (which is lower then wisdom) until 3rd level. sohei gets his primary stat to attack from level 1.

Shadow Lodge

Kwauss wrote:

So, if you want to be a crappy archer for 5 levels, then great, take Sohei? Min/Max-wise you should zen until level 5 then retrain at level 6 into Sohei?

Is there something wrong with the rules structures on these archetypes?

how did you arrive at the conclusion that you are a crappy archer until 5th?

Shadow Lodge

Ukki wrote:
James Risner wrote:
TheSideKick wrote:
sohei would have been a much better choice for this character.

Not in the least, nothing I could get from Sohei would be interesting, useful or beneficial to that character. ;-)

Why not? Sohei gets weapon training at level 6 that allows him to flurry with a bow (and can stack rapid/many shot on top of that flurry unlike the zen archer). For two more monk levels you're getting weapon training three levels earlier than you would with multiclass fighter, and two more attacks when you full attack.

you completely forgot the ability to go first on basically every surprise round you dont roll a one. and that feat that lets you get a full attack when you can act in surprise, knocking your DPR through the roof.

Shadow Lodge

"barbarians" invented beer and mead, so i think that would be a very fitting combo.

alchemist isn't really a good fit because beer isn't an alchemical substance. its just a cooking process.

they have a good spell list for clerics, one that makes beer and a few other good spells for helping you make beer anywhere.

a rage prophet may be perfect for your character.

Shadow Lodge

James Risner wrote:
Mojorat wrote:
The reason they are on the list is nothing requires you stay zen archer. If the plan is to multiclass rapid shot and multishot may be good options.

My Zen Archer had 4 levels of Monk and everything else Fighter and I never flurry his whole life. I did Rapid Shot/Many Shot a lot tho.

sohei would have been a much better choice for this character.

Shadow Lodge

SilentlySage wrote:

The problem I have with sneak attack comes from how limiting it is in practice. I am currently playing my first rogue. I made the mistake of going down the TWF route, thinking it would increase my DPR and make me more viable in combat. I'm a core rogue, to keep Trapfinding and Uncanny Dodge. In theory I can dish out decent damage, but in practice this is what happens:

1. I charge in to get a single attack on an enemy with sneak attack while he's flat footed. Paladin does the same.
2. Now, either a) enemy is dead because of the paladin's massive damage, and I have to move to flank another enemy, getting only one attack again, or b) enemy is still alive.
3. Assuming the enemy is still alive, he can make a full attack and make a 5 foot step diagonally away from me. Now I can't flank him without moving 10 feet. I get one sneak attack again. Any other class that doesn't rely on sneak attack would be able to 5 foot step and make a full attack, while only missing out on the flanking bonus.

Also, if I do manage to get a full attack, but kill the enemy in one or two hits, there's no nearby enemy who is in flanking position. so my other attacks are wasted.

Then there was the time we had to fight an air elemental (immune to sneak attack and has DR). I was completely useless in that battle, only there to provide a flanking bonus. Now I have a wand of Acid Arrow that we found, but still...

I really like my rogue as a character. I have enormous fun roleplaying, interacting with NPCs. With my trapspotting feat, I am great at detecting traps. I can sneak nearly anywhere and tumble around the battlefield easily, but I feel so useless in combat. It gets really frustrating.

1. scout archetype fixes this, by not needing to go first in surprise

2. a half orc with the toothy trait and out flank can hit 3x attacks, at level 3, against a flatfooted flanked opponent which makes up for the lack of and doesn't need to move to any particular position to make it work.
3. see answer 3, also to boost your ac get the rogue trait offensive defense.
4. dimensional dervish can fix that, you need to dip into horizon walker for it, but it makes up for a lack of mobility in the rogue.
5. when going up against things immune to SA you need to have a backup plan, any number of options exsist like:

Shadow Lodge

basically stack your HP, and con. all you want to do is make your con as high as possible, then your hexes, spells, and combat surviveability go through the roof.

one option for a seriously powerful caster would be to go one level of barbarian and use a cord of stubborn resolve to rage cycle when ever you decide to use a hex.

+2 to your save dc for all hexes and martial weapon proficiency + up to medium armor proficiency which is great for you is you decide to go with arcane armor training. celestial plate would be my armor of choice in that case.

then you have additional feats like tenacious survivor, +2 to con while raging(forgot the name), and the best of all ability focus for a +2 more to your hex save dc.

Shadow Lodge

MrSin wrote:


Mana cookies sound delicious though... Can we get that in a cookie form instead of a scroll? Cookies sound more appetizing.

you my friend play too much WoW

Shadow Lodge

wraithstrike wrote:
Sarrah wrote:
I'm not writing about theorycraft. I'm writing about actual game play.

What theorycraft?

That was rule from the book. The rules don't allow for magic armor to resize.

Now if you mean you have houseruled it in your game to allow for resizing of magic armor then I would have the cost of the armor change to whatever it would be at its new size.

As for the question about class abilities the rules are silent, but I would use knowledge arcana for any magic abilities that a class has. I would consider the nonmagical ones to be common knowledge.

the issue is that your making an inference, i see no rule one way or the other that says magic items don't adjust (resize to me means change size categories) to the wearer.

looks like a gm call to me. and honestly i think the 2d4x100 is to prevent level one characters from looting non magical full plate to bypass the 1k cost. i dont think i would enforce it for magical armor.

*edit* actually after reading the passage you quoted, seems you left this part off...
". Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items." this does not say "except magic armor, that needs to be adjusted first"

Shadow Lodge

ooo i actually am working on this exact character as we speak. using stone axes with the fragile quality you can really max your damage with the fragile feats. their names elude me at the moment, sorry.

but you take twf, rapid shot, point blank shot, clustered shot, and the fragile feats.

you want to go with a fighter for all the feats you need, and a few levels of barbarian for the hurler ability.

raving dork made the character im basing this build off of. it is a rock thrower but i dont have the link.

haruhiko88 wrote:
An alchemist could probably work pretty well. The grenadier class gets you a martial weapon prof for free, if you are a dwarf that means dwarven war axe. With throw anything you can hurl that sucker pretty nicely, and when you need a little more boom you have bombs or can strap alchemical substances (like alchemists fire) to your axe whether you throw it or melee swing with it.

damn i completely forgot that grenadier could do that.. i may have to work that into my build.

as for the lack of magical bonuses im thinking a little gm fiat to change the doubling dagger into a doubling axe, or just reskin it.

Shadow Lodge

a bigger explosion? no

more damage?yes

let him play an alchemist over a rogue. it can be the same sneaky character, but his bomb fetish wont cost him a ton of gold. oh and they have flame throwers :D i love the grenadiers with the flame discovery that lets the damage stay for an extra round.

you are the gm, if you want his mundane bombs to be bigger you can do that. honestly i see little consequence to that. but he will eat his gold up fast by spending it on "bags of bombs"

Shadow Lodge

TheSideKick wrote:
Quote:
How does a GM beat bladebound / kensai?

its very simple, you black blade decides to pull you into a direction away from the party to accomplish its own goals.

you must make a will save every day to avoid being dominated by its ego.

gm wins...

but seriously your characters inherent balancing feature is that you have to deal with having an intelligent blade. its a pain in the @$$ i hate intelligent items!!

high dpr wont help you when your sword decides its time to accomplish its goal. then you have to fight your sword every time the gm decides its time.

here is a list of alllllll the things a gm can pull, not counting rule 0, that can force you to fall in line with what the gm wants.

"Removal of associates or items whose alignment or personality is distasteful to the item.
The character divesting herself of all other magic items or items of a certain type.
Obedience from the character so the item can direct where they go for its own purposes.
Immediate seeking out and slaying of creatures hateful to the item.
Magical protections and devices to safeguard the item from molestation when it is not in use.
That the character carry the item with her on all occasions.
That the character relinquish the item to a more suitable possessor due to alignment differences or conduct.

In extreme circumstances, the item can resort to even harsher measures, such as the following:

Force its possessor into combat.
Refuse to strike opponents.
Strike at its wielder or her associates.
Force its possessor to surrender to an opponent.
Cause itself to drop from the character's grasp. "

Shadow Lodge

Quote:
How does a GM beat bladebound / kensai?

its very simple, you black blade decides to pull you into a direction away from the party to accomplish its own goals.

you must make a will save every day to avoid being dominated by its ego.

gm wins...

but seriously your characters inherent balancing feature is that you have to deal with having an intelligent blade. its a pain in the @$$ i hate intelligent items!!

high dpr wont help you when your sword decides its time to accomplish its goal. then you have to fight your sword every time the gm decides its time.

here is a list of alllllll the things a gm can pull, not counting rule 0, that can force you to fall in line with what the gm wants.

"Removal of associates or items whose alignment or personality is distasteful to the item.
The character divesting herself of all other magic items or items of a certain type.
Obedience from the character so the item can direct where they go for its own purposes.
Immediate seeking out and slaying of creatures hateful to the item.
Magical protections and devices to safeguard the item from molestation when it is not in use.
That the character carry the item with her on all occasions.
That the character relinquish the item to a more suitable possessor due to alignment differences or conduct.
In extreme circumstances, the item can resort to even harsher measures, such as the following:

Force its possessor into combat.
Refuse to strike opponents.
Strike at its wielder or her associates.
Force its possessor to surrender to an opponent.
Cause itself to drop from the character's grasp. "

Shadow Lodge

humans are a good alternate to a dwarf. extra skill points, and the extra feat allows you to open up that feat slot for your crafting at level 3,5, or 9.

other then that i dont think they have a core race that is more focused on crafting, except maybe elf. Elves are the go to race for wizards.

Shadow Lodge

The black raven wrote:
TheSideKick wrote:
but here is the issue, your own opinion of CE is not the same as the definition as written in the book. the book has a clear concise definition of CE. if it doesnt match that definition then it isnt CE. you may choose to alter that as a GM but that doesnt change that fact.
If RAW alignments were so clearly and undisputedly described, we would not have that many alignment threads, I believe ;-)

alignment threads stem from personal morality and opinion. people view alignments in this game not in a RAW mentality like they should, but in a abstract personal view(RAI). thats where alignment threads turn into philosophical debates that span pages.

remember that alignments are black and white in this game, there is no grey unless they gm decides to bend away from that system, which then becomes a "home rules" territory.

Shadow Lodge

taldanrebel2187 wrote:

Side Kick, I sort of disagree. A lot of CE people are impulsive and violent and hate-filled. But they still don't murder hobo 100% of the time. If so, they'd be immediately arrested or killed. It's the difference between CE and "Chaotic Stupid" in my opinion...

..."Chaotic Evil
If I want something, I take it. Might is right. The strong rule the weak. Respect me or suffer. Fear me. There is only today, and today I take what I need. Anger brings out the best in me. I am the stronger one.

Core Concepts: Anarchy, anger, amorality, brutality, chaos, degeneracy, freedom, profaneness, violence

A chaotic evil character is driven entirely by her own anger and needs. She is thoughtless in her actions and acts on whims, regardless of the suffering it causes others.

In many ways, a chaotic evil character is pinned down by her inherent nature to be unpredictable. She is like a spreading fire, a coming storm, an untested sword blade. An extreme chaotic evil character tends to find similarly minded individuals to be with—not out of any need for company, but because there is a familiarity in this chaos, and she relishes the opportunity to be true to her nature with others who share that delight."

There *is* a strongman NPC (level 9) and the PCs are level 1. I think in time they'll deal with him, but I want the players to realize that CE doesn't mean they turn on each other and murder hobo. I mean heck even CE Goblins and CE Orcs don't murder their young or own kind, right?

but here is the issue, your own opinion of CE is not the same as the definition as written in the book. the book has a clear concise definition of CE. if it doesnt match that definition then it isnt CE. you may choose to alter that as a GM but that doesnt change that fact.

and yes orcs do kill there own kind. they are like lions, they exist in a pride, or society, but once the opportunity presents it's self the male lions will attack and kill, if necessary, to be the top male of that pride. that specific mentality or set of actions is exactly as written in the CE descriptor.

and no im not saying male lions are CE, im saying male lions have a instinct to usurp each other. if lions raped, pillaged, and tortured other lions for fun or profit then they would be CE.

Shadow Lodge

chaotic evil is by nature attempting to dominate one and other. CE will eventually turn into some form of pvp to decide who is "top dog"

chaotic evil:
A chaotic evil character does what his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are likely to be poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.

you need a strong main PC to force the others in line for a CE group to function. usually a CE group should be controlled be a strong LE character, whos code and unwavering adherence to punishing misbehavior will keep the others in check. just make sure they actually want CE and not NE or LE.

NE will be easy to control, as long as they feel the group is a necessity to their own means they will work as a group. once they feel that is no longer the case that NE character will slaughter the lot of them, most likely.

NE is my favorite alignment to play other then LN, because you're Mr. smiles until you don't need to be anymore. the entire campaign that NE alignment should be creating contingency plans and counter measures to "order 66" the group lol.

man NE is fun to play!!

but back to the main question. you can run it as a normal 6-7 person game IF you have a strong main PC, usually LE, to guide them and keep them in check. this PC would need to be the most powerful in combat to function as the leader and be played smart enough to counter their attempts for usurping them. if you can accomplish that it takes a major load off your shoulders.

if every session will be them trying to kill each other it will get old, and taxing on you the gm, fast. so my advice is work with one of your players to be an in game leader and out of game GM aid to ease your burden.

now if you don't have that central PC gluing the chaos together, herding cats i call it, then you may get over your head with GMing.

Shadow Lodge

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Well, let's assume all core races, plus all heritages of Aasimar, and Tiefling.

human would give the best return, nothing any other race offers would help you other then dwarf for the saves and con/wis bump

Shadow Lodge

FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:
Ah, so it takes 2-3 rounds to get the -12... and it takes two level 3 spell slots.

no it takes one round.

Shadow Lodge

FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

How exactly are you getting to -12 again? Bestow Curse, shaken, sickened, Evil Eye? How do you do this with one round of combat again?

Bestow Curse is good, but it's not all that. Would you rather have bestow curse or haste for the team? They are both level 3 spells.

Kensai can accomplish a very similar thing, heck, almost any magus can. The only thing that the Hexcrafter has more to offer is Evil Eye (A samsaran magus can get Bestow Curse). Evil Eye is good... but I wouldn't waste a standard action on it unless I was in a group with a lot of save or suck effects.

EDIT: When I say Similar, I referencing debuffing in general.

you can cast bestow curse, since its a touch spell, in your weapon via spell strike. so you start the combat with Bestow Curse active. then spell combat using a second bestow curse.

(-2)shaken,(-2) sickened,(-4) bestow curse,(-6 to save stat of choice) spell combat bestow curse. then follow up next round with a evil eye, if you caster didnt obliterate it with a save or die spell.

Shadow Lodge

Jiggy wrote:
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
Dimensional Agility is the champion for Wizard (Conjuration; teleportation subschool). By level 7-8 you essentially get two move actions on of which is of a teleportation variety. Many, many shenanigans are possible using Shift and Dimensional Agility (which should be permitted together as Shift is describe as in Dim Door).

Shift won't qualify you for Dimensional Agility. You have to be able to cast DDoor, and SLAs count for that, but Shift is supernatural, not spell-like.

So you'll have to wait until you can actually cast DDoor in order to take Dimensional Agility. And since Dimensional Agility references taking actions after "casting" DDoor (rather than just after "teleporting" or after "using" DDoor), you're still restricted to spells or SLAs for getting that benefit.

Consider asking your GM for houserules.

but shift can be done at the end of the round.

dimension door-> full attack-> dimensional shift

Shadow Lodge

FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

Getting the curse descriptor spells isn't huge, except maybe for brand just for the idea of a non-cheesy touch cantrip.

its alot more then just "one cheezy cantrip". a well built hex crafter can apply a -12 to saves in one combat round. thats a game ender from any bbeg that can be the target of a spell effect.

its more impressive then a pouncing barbarian. when you hit them with a baleful polymorph the next round and it sticks 95% of the time, hp is irrelevant.

its just a super powerful "setup" character who makes everyone in your group better, its why im such a big fan of hexcrafters. you dont get the kill, you let the sorcerer or fighter get it by making the target weaker.

well more like much much weaker.

Shadow Lodge

Helikon wrote:

Do you really really really want to play someone who is about half intelligent, half as wise and half as charismatic as alan in The hangover?

yes it can be quite fun

Shadow Lodge

EsperMagic wrote:
Not sure if its PFS legal since i dont know all those rules but here is Bumi created by RavingDork

in reguards to this character, which i think is pretty bad ass, does a rock have the fragile weapon quality?

Shadow Lodge

Count Coltello wrote:

Who would be good "peacekeepers" and what would be good end goal (or bbeg)

And would you outlaw divine too and what about magic gear? It is usually assumed you have magic gear by a certain point but low magic might hinder that

i would have inquisitors be the antimagic hunters, you know use magic to kill magic type of thing.

other then that a different rout to go would be monks (martial artist), mage slayer build fighters, or witch hunter barbarians as "peacekeepers" for a fully non-magical direction for npc's.

magic gear can be hidden from detection, you can cast a number of spells or place them in a few different containers to prevent people from noticing that they are magical. also magic items do not need to have a visual element to it.

NOW i would require all magic to be crafted by a party member or an NPC that is found by a skill check. this npc could also be used at a later date to expose the party for a plot device.

Shadow Lodge

Claxon wrote:

I'm going to start GM a game soon, and I have a player who really loves Rogues. However, I'm also not one to force things in favor a particuarly place just so his class feature works.

I've been trying to think how to replace or provide an alternate option for him, even if it's just a house rule I create.

Would trading out the rogue's sneak attack progression for the ranger's favored enemy progression on the rogue base class be fair? It would essentially give us the slayer, though there would still be mechanical differences.

they have 50 builds in the thread "lets make the rogue work", that will be a powerful character that is also functional as a group member. one person even compiled them in a google doc.

Shadow Lodge

Xethik wrote:

I'm not sure if there is official errata regarding it, but I do not believe Gang Up allows you to count yourself as an ally or ranged sneak attack consistently. If your GM allows it, I think it's a great boon and not overpowered, but it's a YMMV situation.

i cant seem to find the quote, but you can always count as your own ally unless it says otherwise.

Mattastrophic wrote:


Though blink may not work so well for achieving ranged sneak attacks, tiny hut still does.

-Matt

im formally petitioning paizo to make a PFS legal magic item called ring of tiny hut,

LOL they can call it metal gear sneak ring it can look like a box marked "fragile".

Shadow Lodge

monkeymadness wrote:

Ok from my understanding monkeylunge/lunge allows you to attack 10 foot away (medium creature) cleave gives extra attack after successfully hitting

But could a character hit a creature adjacent to her and lunge into cleave

yes actually as long as the initial target is adjacent to you, and the next target is adjacent to them.

so basically you can cleave in a straight line away from you. x->0->0

FYI they still haven't fixed monkey lunge to not suck, so exclude monkey lunge from this question. other wise you wont have a standard action to use your cleave.

Shadow Lodge

TriOmegaZero wrote:
TheSideKick wrote:
until you realize that any rogue with half a brain will take the feat gangup and not worry about flanking. shoot with gang up technically you can shoot at a creature in melee with 2 of your teammates and get your sneak attack damage.
Flanking only applies to melee attacks.

oh thats right i forgot it stipulates melee strikes.

Shadow Lodge

Scavion wrote:


To put it succinctly, we've run the numbers and it's reflected in play with most DMs. A Rogue tends to not have the durability or saves to withstand the pressure of being in melee.

"Classic" Scenario.

Rogue tumbles into a flank with the Fighter. Fails acrobatics because CMD is so outrageous. Eats an attack of opportunity. Oh no! rider effect. The Rogue ate a negative level, poison, is paralyzed or any number of extremely nasty debilitating conditions because Reflex is the least valuable save in the game. So now he still isn't in position, lost his move action and took a nasty hit. Now Monsters are a nasty lot. When they get a hint of blood in the water what do you think they should do? Attack the yet unharmed most likely more heavily armored warrior or finish off the lightly armored skirmisher who tried to get behind it?

until you realize that any rogue with half a brain will take the feat gangup and not worry about flanking. shoot with gang up technically you can shoot at a creature in melee with 2 of your teammates and get your sneak attack damage.

also you count as an ally for meeting the 2 ally requirement. now you dont need to position into a flank, you only need to get to the target which shouldnt be too difficult for a rogue to do.

Shadow Lodge

there were quite a few builds posted that were more then adequate for most, if not all games.

38 pages of cyclical arguments, didn't disprove that the rogue has viable options. just make sure you don't play a rogue expecting it to be a fighter or a paladin.

you want a fighter or paladin then play that class. you want a trap smith skill monkey that has some oomph in combat without spells, play a rogue.

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Kazaan wrote:
AGorgen wrote:

@EvilPaladin

I don't understand how frostbite would work with everyone of my 7 attacks.. isn't it delivered by a melee touch attack? I don't have any touch attack, so I could only deliver it if I made a standard action to deliver it, or am I missing something?

It's a general rule for Touch spells that you can deliver them with either a melee touch attack as a standard action or any Unarmed Strike or Natural Attack (which can be AoOs, at the end of a Charge, attacks as part of a Full Attack, etc). Each time you punch, claw, or bite, you will deliver a Frostbite charge, so long as you have the charge available.

its held in a ahnd, so you could only get it with one attack.

moms, dragon and tiger style can be a very brutal combo when you factor in polymorph effects like turning into a huge sized giant for your unarmed strikes.

dragon style + tiger claws + tiger pounce can get nasty quick. 4x strength and 2 attacks as a full round action.

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technically a SLA is not a spell. this does not mimic a spell by name, so by raw prototype00 is correct.

i agree with Gauss that it is a serious RAW work around and would be very hard pressed to let that fly at my table.

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brawler is very boring. lets talk about the warpriest blood rager, or slayer... wait slayer is pretty boring also...

just me or are the majority of the classes coming out just boring as all hell?

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STR Ranger wrote:

Black blades are freakin awesome after they have a few levels up. I have played a black blade in a wrath of the righteous and despite being down an arcana he rocked hard.

I don't see them as any more fighter-y than a normal magus.

The ability to save on the single most expensive item in the game DOES matter because it allows you to bump the rest of your Xmas tree a fair bit.

The really shine in tight camaigns. If money is not an issue, then not so much.

i agree with this post 100%, my one thing i would like to add is that if your gm chooses to, that bonus becomes a massive penalty. having an intelligent blade can be a hindrance.

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andreww wrote:
For people planning to grapple Incendius do you have a plan for when he ceases flying and plummets into the 100' deep pit of lava in his lair taking you with him? Also as yet you cannot actually see him due to the smoke and the combination of Mind Blank and Greater Invisibility.

yes boots of the cat(minimum fall damage), and fire resistance + true sight goggles. all things i have on my tetori that i play. ive done this to 4 dragons now. my character developed counter strategies for every color of dragon. water dragons are the worst, red is pretty easy to kill.

my gm stopped using them against me lol.

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Dasrak wrote:


Finally, there is the Mystic Theurge. This class has exceedingly powerful abilities (double spell progression!) gated by some of the most draconian prerequisites this side of whirlwind attack. If any class was going to cause problems under this ruling, it was Mystic...

ok in homes games, omg wtfbbqsauce broken. 4 fireballs that deal 120 points each in acid damage at 13th level, then cast 35 more at 2 per round.

in PFS still very powerful because of the ability to spam fireballs, or what ever evocation spell they choose to use, all day and cast healing/buff spells. not the most broken class for PFS by far, but still pretty dang annoying for a gm and other players at the table.

oracle (flame)/sorcerer(cross blooded) aasimar can PrC at 4th level. and man oh man can they blast, while still being a powerful group buffer.

**edit**
oh they limited spell synthesis to once per day, ok so its not actualy as good as i thought. once per day you can quicken 2 fireballs and follow it up with a full round metamagic fireball.

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Sagotel wrote:


Core Rulebook wrote:
Rounding: Occasionally the rules ask you to round a result or value. Unless otherwise stated, always round down. For example, if you are asked to take half of 7, the result would be 3.
Once in a while, it works to the player's advantage. Not often, mind you...

im glad you found that, i never knew it was a true rule. i know in 3.5 it was always the worst result for the player a s a rule.

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Jon Otaguro 428 wrote:
TheSideKick wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:


Not quite true. Other then giving up early access to spell recall it also forces the Magus to give up several Arcana he would have taken if he hadn't spent those arcana slots on hexes. This is not necessarily a bad thing but it is an opportunity cost that you have to absorb.
Not terrible but can be unpleasant to let some of those options go in a feat-starved class.

but now you need to weigh the value of hexes like ice tomb, evil eye misfortune + cackle, sleep hex, against magus arcanas that are, for lack of a better terms... garbage by comparison.

honestly i think hexcrafter is nothing but a boon to the magus class.

Maybe in pfs hexcrafter is ok since characters don't play much after level 11, but in regular adventure paths, improved spell recall is awesome. Recall a fireball or any other third level spell for 1 arcane point - yes please.

Shouldn't you round up to 2 points?

But extra fireballs are nice but having a near endless supply of spell based debuffs and save or die utility out weights improved spell recall by a wide, wide margin.

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StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Other than this new ruling that Qingong can't give back abilities archetypes take away that I was unaware of, I do know what I'm talking about.

That dragon has obscene CMB/CMD and can utterly destroy the Tetori with natural attacks and/or breath weapon while grappled if it is anything less than pinned at all times. Unless you have at least a +15 edge over it on both monk CMB vs. Dragon CMD and vice-versa, I'm skeptical you'll be able to pin it down long enough to actually kill it before it kills you.

I think my tetori capped at 50 cmb + true strike, and a 61 cmb that good enough for you?

Edit* actually I think it was 71 cmd

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StreamOfTheSky wrote:
I'd say the major flaw in the plan is expecting to pin the dragon in a single round and hold him there for many rounds to follow. Tetori might be able to get Abundant Step back by level 20 via Qingong Monk. I don't know, I have no idea how many other bucketloads of class features Tetori sacrifices; it's a horrible archetype for an already horrible class so I don't pay much attention to it.

I'm happy for your ignorance, but yeah stop talking until you know what you're talking about lol

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No flaw, it's called horizon walker you get DD back

It wasn't necessary until they made that s#%+ty ruling that qinngong can't get abilities back that archetypes take away.

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Tetori, DD over the dragon and dimensional agility grapple the dragon the pin that f&%@er and nonlethal him to death.

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yeah you can get pretty insane numbers with a cross blooded shocking grasp orc/blue dragon build.

i think its the best nova build for a magus also, that plus dervish dance.

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its called thunder and fang, it only works with an earth breaker though. and it doesn't really let you wield a larger sized weapon in one hand, but lets you wield a medium 2 handed weapon as if it were a 1 handed, pretty much to the same effect.

with impact you can make your one handed weapon hit for 3d6 base.

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why would you guys necro this thread?!?!?! it died and came back because you people wouldn't leave the lake!!

it Friday the 13th xxvii run away!! only no nudity :(

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all druids run out of steam from a mechanics POV at about 10. nothing you can do to stop that.

but if you were willing to multi class, barbarian isnt the worst choice. you gain a boost to saves, HP, and access to great rage powers like witch hunter, and superstitious.

but a different rout you can tred, is by taking aasimar as your base race, making you cha a 15, and going into daragon disciple + orc/abyssal eldritch heritage. a massive boost to strength would allow your pouncing strong jaw, big cat build, to stay relevant up to 20.

your will get out DPr by a barbarian, fighter, and even a monk (potentially), but you will have access to 8th level spells. this is much better over all rout to go.

it would be druid 16/ DD4

you can get a 50 -ish strength by level 20 while i cat form, and still be able to go into dragon form in the late game.

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