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Tin Golem

TheSideKick's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,720 posts (1,721 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 6 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Shadow Lodge

I would say lorewarden fighter is my first choice, for obvious reasons, then I would argue that the magus comes in second with spell strike + lunge + spell lunge. That's base 20, 25 with enlarge person. Empowered intensified maxamized acidic shocking grasp anyone? With a spell storing weapon you could land 2 of them in one hit lol.

Shadow Lodge

Ok so fighter 1 wizard 5 eldritch knight 10 arcane archer 4...

I win. Imbue arrow with a 9th level spell, spell storing won't work with a ranged weapon so the best you can do is I think...

Circle of teleportation would be best.

Shadow Lodge

No rule you can't have a level 20 wizard with max hp and and int of ten in full plate fight your party, I mean that a cr ten encounter if I've ever seen one lol.

Shadow Lodge

I know it's nothing spectacular but I love the divine fist healer concept. In pathfinder it's basically the warpriest monk archetype. I've always loved this image of a no armored healer who could blaze across the battlefield and nimbly tumble adjacent and heal players.

Shadow Lodge

A dwarven fighter with crb feats is a great starting point. If they decide in a few levels that they want casting then they have sorcerer and dragon deciple to add casting into their character.

A simple build would be:

Power attack
Precise shot


Iron will

Improved initiative

Improved iron will

Rapid shot

That's all crb, and he will have something to do every round, if they decide that they want to try casting then use feat retraining to remove iron will and go sorcerer. Change uw to rapid shot and improved iron will to arcane armor training, then dragon deciple at 7th or 8th I can't remember all the pre requisites off the top of my head.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

A lorewarden is the best tank I've been able to make. Paladins can self heal, barbarians have hp and dr, but fighters are the only class with the tools to lock down at will teleportation.

You just need to shore up your will save and get a couple staple magic items to be good enough to survive against high level casters

Shadow Lodge

Im not a huge fan of hamatula because as a tetori your to hit will be lower then your cmb. I like snapping turtle style way way more.

Tetori + armor spikes is win in the early levels. Better ac and more damage.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Gun slinger fits well in the pirates theme. I would do a pistol and sword build for thematic reasons, other wise a normal ranger with a bird animal companion could be really useful as well.

Shadow Lodge

Trapper ranger 1/wizard 5(conjuration spec, teleportation sub school)/eldritch knight 4/ arcane archer 2/eldritch knight 6/arcane archer 2

You can detect traps and disarm them using disable device, shoot as a competent archer, control the battle field with god spells, and shut down high level casters and magical monsters using the imbued arrow + anti magic field combo.

Shadow Lodge

Another powerful choice for your character that is very "monkish" is a warblade. The divine spell list mixed with the pummeling style is a very potent combination. Add in dragon or snake style and you can't have a very defensive, or offensive version of the same character.

Edit i meant the archatype sacred fist for the warblade

Shadow Lodge

My suggestion would be to play a sorcerer archer and ask your gm to reskin it as a gun slinger. Use the rules for crafting ammo, purchasing firearms but use an archetype like arcane archer, eldritch knight or any other prc that you like to make a functional character.

Shadow Lodge

You need an arcane caster bad in your party. The arcanis is your best bet, as to how to build one I haven't even looked at the class personally.

My personal suggestion would be a god wizard, you need a buffer/debuffer and some utility spells more then anything else.

Shadow Lodge

A fighter without an archetype is much better then an archer fighter.

Going with arcane archer is also a very solid choice, any bow they pick up get enchants automatically. A slew of cool features like imbue arrow, and death arrow. Only down side is it functions better with cha casters.

Shadow Lodge

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
Okay so I've narrowed it down to either ranger or slayer. I'm leaning more towards ranger, but I'm not sure.

Not to diminish the slayer, but I don't see them as good archers, or even switch hitters. If you really want to play a ranger they are a solid choice, personally I'd never choose one over a vanilla fighter.

My favorite archers are:
Sohei (see above)
Vanilla fighter
Inquisitor (I've only built one on paper never played one)

Shadow Lodge

The best non caster archer in the game is a sohei. Dex> str>con>wis improved initiative, reactonary trait, and you'll go first almost everytime. Always act in surprise round, and flurry rapid many shot + gloves of dueling.

Best part a sohei doesn't need to be Asian themed since it's more of a marauder style flavor.

Shadow Lodge

@larkspire. I would crush your games, giving a character faster progression wouldn't help to balance anything. A well built martial character can one hit or take a massive chunk out of a cr that's EPL +3 if he's higher level then the NPC.

Shadow Lodge

I'm confused... Is this a "monks suck" thread? I thought we were past these...

Anyway monks are good; martial artist, sohei, tetori, zen archer, maneuver master, master of many styles, sensi, drunken master and monk of the 4 winds are awesome builds for monks. Then add on quinggong for added flexability.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

A slew of powerful fighter only feats that all other classes, even ones that say they can use fighter only feats, can't use. Fests to make the fighter over all more worth while and shore up its defenses.

Shadow Lodge

In play full attacking won't become a viable option until you can dimension door, if you choose to build that way. The katana will be the best option for damage assuming you don't want to stack dex. The claws can be used when placed into a position for a full attack. If you want to max your dps use smoke bomb with moonlit stalker feint to Max your sneak attack damage and to hit.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Undead bloodrager, all the new fear feats from the acg makes it hands down the best demoralizer in the game.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hands down a tetori. No caster can escape a tetori monk, from a wizard to a colossal red dragon. Dimensional agility chain into a grapple and if need be a freedom suppression.

Shadow Lodge

Lastoth wrote:
mad Trev wrote:

I'm looking to create an effective archer but I don't just want a boring combat character. I've just finished playing a paladin so please don't suggest one, I've looked into a fighter but he's just combat orientated and a little boring.

Any suggestions gratefully appreciated

I would say the most effective overall archer is the 1 fighter/1wizard/10EK/XAA/Xwiz build. It gets you pretty much the most versatility of anyone combined with top notch damage. You don't feel excluded later in the campaign either.

Everyone is focusing on the zen archer here because it's really simple to build and play, but his damage falls off at higher levels a bit and ultimately he faces the same issues all of them do with windwall and magic effects.

Meanwhile, the EK is basically god, dropping anti magic shells with imbue arrow turning high level wizards into severely disgruntled commoners. The most effective archer isn't the most damage, it's the one who is able to do the most stuff.

this guy wins the thread!!

Shadow Lodge

Jeraa wrote:

My monsters make full use of whatever treasure they have. You can bet that the magical sword in the treasure is going to be in the hands of the orc chieftain, the masterwork armor on his second in command. The village shaman will make use of any scrolls they may have.

If the dragon feels it needs armor, then don't be surprised when you see a dragon in full plate.

I'd love I MEAN love to see a dragon on full plate. All that sexy ASF would totally neuter the dragon.

Shadow Lodge

Quite a few builds that let thrown weapons shine, even at really high levels.

Raving dork ( I think) made a rock thrower that is slightly different and better then the above posted rock thrower.

I built a ninja waves oracle that tosses 8 shuriken at level 7 from obscuring mist scoring SA for every landed shuriken. Then clustered shots allow you to ignore the need for dr bypassing materials or enchants. One issue is getting your to hit high enough past level 10, but you make up for it by volume of attacks.


Shadow Lodge

Squiggit wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
what does divine protection do?

+Charsima to all saves. Requires Know:R 5 and access to second level divine spells.

ikarinokami wrote:

ask yourself this question is anyone going to play an oracle because of this feat? the answer is no.

Actually I'm playing a nature oracle in my next game specifically because of this feat. If I can get her turned into a lich I'll get +charisma to everything except physical attacks and skills. Which is pretty cool and silly.

Well s#~~ my life oracle, invulnerable rager, rage prophet just blew the doors off this game with Devine protection lol.

Shadow Lodge

Here is the loophole to the vow of poverty monk in pathfinder. If the monk has an item crafter in the party, you can stack as many magical effects on that one item as you can afford. You can have an amulet of mighty fists, resistance 5, natural. Armor, ect... As long as someone else pays for the upgrades.

Shadow Lodge

My solution to this whole issue is to put the danger back into spell casting. Teleport into a wall? Bam dead! Cast wish for anything loophole screw you hard. Cast a spell and fail possibility of the magic hurting you, fly gets dispelled?? You fall like a rock and go splat.

Paizo babies spell casters now, and that shouldn't be the case.

Shadow Lodge

You need to update this guide to include an armored character. Mithril Brest plate, moms monk archetype with tiger and dragon styles can hurt so bad with tiger claws and smite evil. Str=cha >con>dex>wis>int tiger style adds mobility and a massive "pounce" like slap to the face. 4x str 2x unarmed damage, power attack at 2.5x and 2x smite evil. Easily over 100 dpr at level 12. I can't remember the exact damage against an evil or chaotic target but it hurts.

Shadow Lodge

Vylent wrote:

@Under A Bleeding Sun - Thats awfully crit focused.... I mean unless you can get a bow pass 19-20 crit range those feats dont seem that effective. unless im wrong and in that case please explain to me why its good and whatnot. I see it as... those feats only benefit me 10% of the time and thats if i confirm the crit everytime.

@TheSideKick - Not sure about that sohei. It looked cool at first and i was all in but then i noticed all the cool stuff the monk would get is negated by the things you get as a sohei. i loved the idea of having an awsome mount but seeing as how i spend most of my time in caves/dungeons/castles/tombs/you get the idea i wouldnt get much benefit out of it. i would have also lost fast movement in addition to not having what the fighter would have given me for those levels.

The mount is just icing on the cake, ignore the mount aspect and notice that you get to act in surprise round... Every time, you get weapon training and the ability to flurry while wearing armor. Rapid shot and many shot stack. A 15 sohei/5 weapon master fighter gets 3 more attacks then a normal fighter on a full attack, Then ki pool to make that 4 more.

And half your level to initiative, monk saves, and true strike,bark skin,restoration, or any other qinggong abilities you like.

Not trying to convince you to play a character you don't want to play, I'm just showing you that their is more then 1 or 2 benefits to playing a sohei.

Shadow Lodge

A mother option you could try is a sohei/fighter it doesn't have any spell casting and it's a slightly superior archer, the best non caster archer IMO.

It's sohei 6 fighter 14 (or ranger). You can get. The most attacks per round possible with this build at full bab and dex as your primary stat. A brutally effective character for DPR.

Shadow Lodge

I really like the war priest, they will be my new monk class until the monk gets overhauled in the unchained book (if they are actually coming out).

As for pally versus war priest, my suggestion is this.

Think what you want your character to do, then choose the class that best represents that character. I like duel wielding kukuris so a war priest will be much better for that then a pally, but if I want sword and board a normal pally is much better then a war priest.

Shadow Lodge

Nope, not true. Supernatural (su) is magic, But I'm talking about the actual term supernatural not the descriptor.

Shadow Lodge

Cheapy wrote:
TheSideKick wrote:
A pure mundane anti caster, using anti magic energy to take the place of the Christmas tree effect at mid to high levels.
A pure mundane character that uses mystical anti-magic "energy" (BUT DON'T YOU DARE CALL THAT MAGIC "MAGIC")?

Right because anti magic =\= magic. Supernatural? You bet, but still not magic.

Shadow Lodge

K177Y C47 wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Gaberlunzie wrote:


"If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails)."

Oooh. With Hamatula Strike and a bow, you can accomplish some pretty miraculous battlefield movement. Just shoot an ally 100s of feet away and teleport him right to you.




Not at all how it works. Hamatula applies the grappeled condition not the maneuver. No different then being blinded, you go straight to the conditions section and skip the combat rules for initiating a grapple.

You don't teleport the target, and it's key for non casters to take down flying targets.

Shadow Lodge

A blight Druid who summons vermin, swarms, and infects people with horrible deisease, poisons and curses. I was going to play this character in my evil game soon

Shadow Lodge

The most powerful character in all of pathfinder is an Archer EK.

Trapper ranger 1/wizard 5 /eldritch knight 4/arcane archer 2/eldritch knight 6/arcane archer 2.

17 bab, 9th level spells, complete flexibility and able to over come just about any situation presented. You can be the rogue, the skill monkey, the face, and even the front liner of you focus on transmutation or conjuration (to summon meat shields). Best character I've ever built, and the most powerful I've ever played by a wide margin.

Shadow Lodge

I will get this item on my fighters before I break for my gloves of dueling from now on. I really like this for fighters, rogues and the new variants that are about to be released.

Shadow Lodge

A different rout you may like is to go Viking fighter, with levels in barbarian (or the other way around) opens up a ton of flexibility in how you approach your character.

Shadow Lodge

Ninjas do this really well, so a slayer should do it better. My suggestion would be to go for snapping turtle style ASAP and spend the majority of your resources to max your grapple mod.

The best thing about pathfinder is that you can play the character you want and your gm can adjust for it, and if it's Pfs then you won't be challanged very much in each module.

Shadow Lodge

When you don't focus on DPR you can do great things with a fighter

Shadow Lodge

@Artimas moonstar, fighter have access to spell sunder now it's a s%+$ty version that you can do once per day, but it's there.

And I think a lore warden fighter grappling a colossal dragon may get moans and grones from you fellow players, but a 200lb human pinning a 20,000 ton dragon it about as far from reality as you can get, but it's a legal option in the rules.

I think adding more "vital strike" style standard attacks that have great secondary effects woul be a step in the right direction, although slightly anime-ish

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
KestrelZ wrote:

This leaves the age old power graph of D&D / Pathfinder. At low levels the martial PCs must protect the weaker mages in the group, outshining them in combat. At high levels, mages alter reality and hopefully protect the martials that once protected them.

Is it fair? That's up to debate. Yet it tends to be far more common to have low level play than high level. So odds are, the martial characters would shine longer and more often than mages.

I hate this mentality that Martians are defenseless at level 10+. One I built a fighter who other then weapons and armor, and the generic 6 magic items was able to solo a valor at 17. He doesn't need anyone to protect him in combat. Is he the pinnacle of DPR? No but I'm not narrow minded in my character building.

Now it would have been cool if I had something more to do in combat, like named strikes or attacks the combined maneuvers and conditions, because we was kinda Boeing with his, move hit, move hit, move hit, move hit, combat style.

If you can understand what autocorrect butchered, I'm typing on my phone

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

A pure mundane anti caster, using anti magic energy to take the place of the Christmas tree effect at mid to high levels.

Shadow Lodge

Tiger style has better synergy for a strength DPR build, but you wouldn't be able to combine it with charge. Although a swift action movement which doesn't prevent a full attack is better then a damage boost from this feat.

Shadow Lodge

A ninja shiriken thrower with smoke bomb, flurry of shuriken, and a gos mask can deal massive damage on a fullround action every round that the smoke bomb is active. Fog spells work as well, but you need to dip oracle for water sight or sorcerer for that build to work well.

Clustered shots is the only thing that makes this build viable in the mid to late game unfortunately.

Shadow Lodge

Combat patrol is an amazing tanking feat, it's great for defensive builds and for demolishing casters. When used in conjunction with teleport Tactician you can lock down demons devils and high level casters once they enter into you threatened space. For a pole arm fighter is a brutal combo, just be sure to max you movement speed and take lunge to capitalize on you mobility provoking radius.

Shadow Lodge

I like your character, but my question is... Why not pure life oracle since you plan on not attacking. Tanking wisdom woul net you a higher dex, and you could have more power ful healing abilities. Golden elemental, favored class bonus from aasimar would net +3 d6 on your channel positive, buff spells would be accessible from you lost of spells know. No apps from casting in melee, and a free quicken cure spell per day.

In one combat round you coul cast cure x wound (swift) elemental heal or swift channel ( move) and cure x (standard no aoo) that will get your fighter off the ground and up to full hp in one round.

On a phone autocorrect really butchered this post lol

Shadow Lodge

Kwauss wrote:

Zen archer

Level 1: Flurry BAB +1 (-1/-1), gets PB shot, perfect shot, far shot and mounted combat, can flurry w/bow
Level 2: Flurry BAB +2 (0/0), gets precise shot and weapon focus
Level 3: Flurry BAB +3 (etc), gets PB master, rapid shot (Zen archery is irrelevant, since you'll become a Sohei at level 6)
Level 4: Flurry BAB +4, ki pool and ki range(weak)
Level 5: Flurry BAB +5, ki arrows ability, mounted archery
Level 6: Flurry BAB +6 (+4/+4/-1), weapon specialization, manyshot, slow fall Or
retrain to Sohei, losing many archery feats, but retraining to have PB shot, rapid shot, precise shot, weapon focus, mounted combat, mounted archery, slow fall - can flurry at +4/+4/+4/-1 (w/out ability scores) due to weapon training

Level 1: Bab+0, rapid shot at -2/-2, gets PB shot, rapid shot, mounted combat, act in surprise round, armor
Level 2: Bab+1, rapid shot at -1/-1, gets mounted archery, init. bonus, monk powers
Level 3: BAB+2, etc., gets precise shot, monk powers
Level 4: BAB+3, etc., stops getting HTH damage, mount powers, mount ki powers, ki pool
Level 5: BAB+3, etc., gets weapon focus, high jump

Now that I'm looking at this, I'm starting to see what James is doing.

left out a substantial amount of facts from that little display.

*what stats does the zen archer have? because im looking at 4 stats minimum. or if you tank strength and deal little to no damage, as an awesome archer that you are.
*whats your ac?
*sohei skips straight to ride by attack and mounted archery (assuming your campaign isnt a dungeon delve).
* you say that the sohei has to be a human or "you're an embarrassment at archery until level 3" but even with just precise shot a single arrow from a sohei hits at +4 for 7.5 damage, versus your zen archer who until level 3 will only hit for what +2/+2 at 2d8 +2(10 assuming you can actually hit 2 times)for (assuming dex of 3) until you can get that +4 from your wisdom, thats also assuming you tanked you con for strength so you can actually deal some kind of damage.
*what are your HP? i know you think this may not matter for a ranged character but you will get hit also

* and far shot? i think you kinda proved my point about not knowing what youre talking about...

in conclusion the sohei is an all around better character. in the worst case the sohei is only slightly behind the zen archer, for 3 levels then pushes him down and steals his lunch money past level 3.

Shadow Lodge

Kwauss wrote:

All nice, but only one actually compensates you really for being a crappy archer, and the one archery-synergistic ability is 4 levels in. A zen archer (which is poorly designed, as I see it) at least keeps pace with a low level ranger in archery output (and defenses, generally). STR is as important for zen archers as wis is for sohei.

If you're going to make assumptions and hand out items liberally, you probably should make apples to apples comparisons, too.

I'm still not convinced the best path is not 5 levels of Zen then retrain to Sohei at level 6.

... poor argument is poor.

strength is much more valuable to a zen archer then wisdom is to a sohei. extra damage is a necessity for archery to be effective.

a 3rd level armorless monk wont have much more then a ring of protection AT BEST while a sohei will have 4+ more AC without any magic at all. assuming your character will have WBL isnt much of an assumption.

whether or not you're convinced is irrelevant. a -1 to hit for 4 levels is nothing in comparison to what you gain by going sohei. not to mention that -1 is negated by the need to use a secondary stat to hit with for the first 2 levels as a zen archer.

going in surprise round and an initiative bonus alone makes the sohei a better archer at low levels.

Shadow Lodge

Kwauss wrote:
TheSideKick wrote:
Kwauss wrote:

So, if you want to be a crappy archer for 5 levels, then great, take Sohei? Min/Max-wise you should zen until level 5 then retrain at level 6 into Sohei?

Is there something wrong with the rules structures on these archetypes?

how did you arrive at the conclusion that you are a crappy archer until 5th?

Just assuming from the fact that they can't flurry with a bow, so get a lower BAB progression with it, and so make a sub-par archer until they can use full BAB with a bow. I'm not saying they don't fulfill the design of the archetype until then, but that's not a devoted archer. During those 5 levels a fighter or ranger is much better (and isn't as MAD). Am I missing something?

quite a bit actually.

yeah you lose out on 2 points of bab, until you get to flurry with your bow, but you gain:

*initiative bonus, and auto acting in surprise round.
*free access to any mounter archery feat with no prereq's (not that great in dungeon delvs, but amazing in some games)
*light armor proficiency, which does 3 things... first flurry with brawling enchant, what monk/fighter doesn't want that? second SAD stats, no need for wisdom, only dex con and str as stats, which would synergizes with fighter very well. third ability to have energy resistance in the late game.
*ability to use your ki pool to boost your to hit on high AC targets.

only thing zen archer gets at low levels that makes it better then a sohei is the feat choices for free bonus feats, but since hes going with fighter anyway those choices become mute since they have equally good function from the sohei class features.

a human sohei can have point blank and rapid shot at 1st level, or be a functional switch hitter using melee and point blank + precise shot, while having a higher ac by a wide wide margin. a 3rd level sohei can have a mithril buckler, chain shirt, dodge, and a +4 dex ac of 20 versus a zenarchers what 16 (18 if you really minmax and ruin your damage ability)?

lets not forget that you have to use dex (which is lower then wisdom) until 3rd level. sohei gets his primary stat to attack from level 1.

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