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I think you can stack enhancements on one item, like having a belt of the weasel + belt of physical perfection. It makes them costlier, though.
Outflank and teamwork feats in general can actually be good with the fighter tactics advanced weapon training, and there is no harm checking with party members (like the rogue). Yes, you can only take so many AWTs, but if you go for several teamwork feats, fighter´s tactics is definitely worth it.
Mutation warrior stacks with Eldritch guardian, and both are good archetypes, although the loss of 2 early feats is a problem for a ranged fighter imo.
Can your monkey actually use a bow? Some DMs will balk at this. Personally, I would rather choose a ranged familiar like a hawk or owl to increase your "reach", and with the Erastil trait they do not provide cover when you shoot someone.
For me, a big design issue with fighter design - and one that tends to impact archetypes - is that it has no new features between levels 5 and 19. Yes, some of the core ones progress, but unlike,say, the monk or rogue it has fairly few things it can trade, and Paizo has by and large shied away from archetypes just costing bonus feats (with a few exceptions like the eldritch guardian). One of the base features - bravery - is pretty underwhelming as stated (a trait gives you the equivalent of bravery on level 9 - can you say the same for,say, stern gaze), so in trades it is not worth much.
I have toyed with ideas about "improving" the fighter as the default weaponmaster/maneuver specialist, just ouf ot curiosity. However, until it gets a serious remake it is likely to continue to have issues. Yes, there have been a few stealth fixes, but there is a problem with the core chassis .
Try to convince him to allow stamina, it was intended as a stealth fix for warriors (fighters in particular) and it helps you do a lot of things.
As for the weapon training options, hmm, Weapon specialist is nice if you intend to use several weapons from the same group, which tbh is not bad for polearms as there are polearms for different reach and damage types. I am not a great fan, though. Focused weapon is actually not so good imo. By the time it outpaces the normal damage for a two-handed weapon, you are so far into the campaign the extra 1-2 damage on average is pointless.
Alternatively, check out the talent that lets you use your BAB as your ranks for several skills. Fighters are quite poor in skill points, and now and then it helps to have something to do while you are not bashing heads. With polearms, you select among 4 pretty decent skills (bluff, intimidate, diplomacy, sense motive), so it isn't bad at all.
Personally, I am not a great fan of using an exotic weapon unless I am going for a theme or playing a half-elf (so I get it for free), but if you have to, do it. However, I find greater weapon focus to be sorely lacking for a feat at the level you get it. Consider getting Iron Will instead of it or even at level 5 (delaying weapon focus): as a warrior you do NOT want someone to get in your head and tell you what a great idea it is to kill your partners. Yes, even with armed bravery iron will can still be worthwhile.
Ok, here are a few ideas I have regarding fighters. My overall presumption is that they lack some defensive abilities and utility at first, but at middle and high levels they start being too reliant on their teammates for the necessary buffs and setup. Also, they have too few features - between levels 4 and 19, fighter get zilch except bonus feats and improvements to what they already have. Compare that with most new classes,who get new trick almost every level. So, overall:
4+int skill points = about the same as barbarians and cavaliers. Not great, but better than now.
Indomitable (replaces bravery): 1/2 the class level to saves vs fear, resisting intimidate and combat stamina pools. My idea is that there are various other abilities adding 1/2 class level to something, and combat stamina offers a good mechanics the fighter can specialize in - I did not want to make fighters outright immune to fear, but bravery needs to no longer be a joke compared to anything else that gives bonuses vs fear.
Soldier on:As an immediate action, can spend stamina points up to the bravery bonus for an equal bonus to any save. Cannot be done while the fighte is flat-footed. Either a part of bravery or a feature given soon after that, to me this approximates the good saves fighters had in 2E (basically spending a moment to prepare againt an incoming attack).
Armor training: additional armor training features (repeated armor focus, extra AC vs criticals, adding armor enhancement to gauntlet/armor spike attacks). To be honest armor training is a feature I had the least ideas about.
Weapon Training: gives its full bonus to CMD when using this weapon and as an insight bonus to AC against such weapons. Weapon damage bonus doubled. This starts low, but gets better at higher levels - where the extra damage can be handy against monsters that are huge HP sponges. The defensive bonus is niche, but to me part of being a master of a weapon is knowing how to defend yourself against that weapon.
Heroic stamina - level 6 - 2-6 times per day can spend 10 stamina points to duplicate the effects of a hero point. This can serve for both mobility and utility and I consider making it an optional combat stamina feat keyed off BAB for other warrior classes as well.
Armsmaster: level 8 or so - nonproficiency penalties for weapons reduced to -2 if the fighter can spend 1 hour practicing with that weapon. No longer provokes attacks of opportunity for any combat maneuvers. At level 16, the nonproficiency penalties are removed instead.
Shake it off - level 10 or so, spend stamina to temporarily ignore the effects of poisons, diseases or mind-affecting abilities (5 stamina points for 1 round, move action)
Rampage- level 12 or so, confirming a critical hit or defeating an opponent with at least 1/2 the fighter's HD recovers stamina points (1/2/3 depending on the weapon's critical modifier) and gives an extra attack against another threatened enemy.
This presumes all full BAB classes get combat stamina and barbarians/cavaliers get some extra tricks for it too (i.e barbarians get extra stamina per round when raging and cavaliers get it during and when completing a challenge). Overall, my idea is to make the fighter a better warrior while also giving it more defensive options and a few other tricks.
I am not the OP, but this is an argument I hear fairly often and one I think is somewhat misleading.
Combat should be the fighter's main schtick, and it is what the class name and concept suggest. I do think the fighter's out-of combat utility can be increased somewhat, but the Weapon/armor master handbook did a fair bit at that. I would not go further for the fighter, because at that point the other non-magical martials - barbarians, cavaliers, etc - start feeling left behind. The rules could benefit from more special high-level options for skills, letting them do the sort of things that you now need some spells for.
On the other hand, the fighter having more combat options and efficiency at higher levels is imo a good idea. See, the fighter is okay at fighting. However, when that is its sole specialty, "okay" doesn't quite cut it imo. The ranger is okay at fighting, and has a lot of other tricks up his sleeve. So do the paladin, slayer, and the avenger vigilante, to name a few. This is why I think fighters and to a point barbarians should have an added edge to represent their focus.
My current idea about the fighter do involve more defensive abilities and a pinch of extra utility (4+int skill points and limited use of the hero point system), but I think when your main job is to fight, you should be the gold standard at it.
It is almost never a good idea to make people wander what the designers were doing, though, especially when the crunch of the books is already available online (so people do not need to buy the books to know what the new items are). If faith in the testing of the product decreases enough, many people will just shift to other games.
Hmm, you definitely need the core book, the APG (rules on guns) and I would say ultimate combat is a good idea. However, almost all "crunch" - the rules and data you need to run a game - is available online. The bestiaries are cool,but again, all of that is online - I would get the first one for the basics and maybe one that has more weird monsters that you want for your games, but only if you have the budget for it.
Now, your ideas about a game will narrow the setting quite a bit. There are very few low magic places in the setting, the one that immediately comes to mind is Alkenstar - a small city state near Nex and Geb that was in a particularly magic-poor region and thus had to develop technology, eventually becoming the world´s main producer of firearms. There is a big on-and-off regional war, and considering the region around the city is known as the Mana Wastes due to all the magical fallout, it is fairly poor when it comes to several resources - it has to import most of its food, for example. Overall, an adventure in or around Alkenstar seems very close to what you want. There aren't many adventures or other books describing the region, though. According to the Paizo website, there are just Wardens of the Reborn Forge and The Twisted Circle.
The other place that you might be interested in is Numeria, which is essentially a barbarian country with an old spaceship wreck and a bunch of technophile wizards running things behind the scenes. It has more eldritch horrors, but is less resource poor and more suited to wilderness adventures - it has a few cities, but apart from the capital they aren't really prominent. The Iron Gods AP is based in Numeria and has an interesting mix of low and high technology.You could use it as an inspiration (or just, you know, as a campaign).
Other than that, I think Numeria is detailed in People of the North, but I cannot remember a book specifically detailing the Alkenstar region. The campaign setting book is generally a good idea if you want to use the default setting, though, and Paizo keeps setting information off the other sites so you have to get the books.
tl/dr: getting the campaign setting book can be a good idea. Alkenstar is an industrial, low-magical city in a wasteland region, while Numeria is a savage land with barbarians, techno-wizards and scattered remains of a huge crashed spaceship.
I think you could slightly reflavor Carrion Crown to fit this angle. Many of the adventures have to do with the antagonists trying to get their hands on various relics they plan to abuse. You could definitely play up this angle, with the late professor being a part of the organization. Mummy´s mask is already mentioned, and, well, the plot can very easily fit that description as well. I perfonally find the default hooks for the game a bit weak, but if the PCs are agents of such an organization, they automatically get a good motivation to pursue the leads.
I have asked that question in other threads, but I would rather do it again here for a somewhat more official statement.
Are kineticists intended to be able to benefit from the to-hit bonus from combat stamina on their kinetic blasts (presuming the feat is allowed and they took it)? How about for the kinetic fist and kinetic blade infusions?
Also, how would you price items giving enhancements to kinetic blast - i.e. bane, vicious, un/holy, etc - and what items do you think work best thematically? I am thinking rods, scepters, staves, orbs and the like.
I was checking the feat on the SRD and it mentioned natural or manufactured weapons or unarmed strikes... I remember seeing something that kinetic blast counts as a weapon for weapon focus, but I am not sure this applies or if Stamina was errata´d.
If it does work, it is a nice way to have little more accuracy and not waste your blasts, whatever other feats you can use it on. A pool based on constitution is pretty great for a kineticist.
I would love to see an unchained fighter. I like the class as the "pure" martial, but right now it is embarassing. Yes, it got some new toys since unchained, but the problem is that the core of the class is lacking.It can fight well, though other martial characters like paladins or rangers can match or even exceed it, and it can't do anything else all that well.
I think the core of the class is really lacking. You have 3 class feature before lvl 19, one of which is pretty lackluster (bravery gives you no more than a trait until level 10 and is no better than being near a paladin until almost the end of the game) , 1 good save, 2+int class skills, and no casting (which could simulate no class features). Yes, you have a lot of feats, but many features are as good or better than feats. The vigilante was pretty much the last straw, having class features that give more than one feat on a chassis better in almost every way.
An unchained sorcerer can restructure the class slightly - it has a few issues such as very few spells known early on (notably fewer than a bard or summoner,which imo is strange and frustrating for the player), and would be nice, but not necessary. However, an unchained fighter is a must.
Paizo, please. I appreciate the effort into patching the fighter piecemeal, but the problem goes deeper than that.
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
You can get a monkey, the extra hands will be helpful - especially if you go for an assist-oriented familiar like a valet (the familiar archetype, I mean).
Alchemists and investigators get some options to remove statuses, but I agree, a witch with the healing patron is perhaps even good at that (other patrons, not so much). If you are going for skulls and shackles, though, some of the other patrons strike me as quite thematic :P.
By the way, am I reading it right that the alchemy bonus from an alchemist VMC stacks with the witch's cauldron hex bonus and with the valet familiar's cooperative crafting? This could result in some pretty insane bonuses to crafting alchemical items or potions.
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
I've asked this question on these boards before, wondering if something like the Chirurgeon Alchemist or White Mage Arcanist would be a viable substitute, and the answer I got was a resounding NO.
I cannot edit my post anymore, so I will have to reply one more time - I have yet to see a party fail because an alchemist, arcanist or a witch was not providing sufficient healing. Sure, more is better, but I think a 6+ level caster with features and a spell list that lend themselves to curing spells is okay. Yes, you can supplement that healing with items, but you should still be okay if the rest of the group works well.
Witches and shamans can be decent healing spell casting healers (hedge witches and especially herbal witches are very solid at that imo), and alchemists/investigators can do it from a more "scientific" perspective. Actually, alchemists make pretty good pharmaceutics, since there are a lot of alchemical items that give large bonuses to overcome status effects, and alchemists can manufacture them pretty quickly. Here is a list with some of the things you can make with alchemy.
Sure, antiplague might not be as good as cure disease in a dungeon, but when your you need to bring an epidemic under control, being able to produce multiple doses of antiplague quickly - on top of your standard infusions - can make a big difference.
I'm pretty much stuck with it until it dies, I don't like this either but I'm really feeling I should at least make an effort to make it sort of work.
Well, you can, but tbh I am not keen on thrown weapons with these stats. Can you multiclass :P ?
If no, archery or even crossbows (since you are not going to be adding strength to damage any time soon) are a better option for a ranged character.
That is an easy houserule, but imo the Master Chymist does Jekyll and Hyde much better.
I'm just not impressed by the whole shebang.
Ugh... I am definitely not a fan for using thrown weapons, especially ones with a bit of weight, on a character with very low strength. Truth be told, I would rather suggest going with a class that can use this very high wisdom, maybe like a warpriest. The thing is, with 3 weapons and a chain shirt you are already likely encumbered, so it is going to be quite hard if you cannot juggle scores and change the class.
Ranged attacks can be powerful, but it is a very feat intensive style. If you do damage at ranged, point blank shot, precise shot and deadly aim need to come pretty early, and two-weapon fighting is pretty important as well. Quick draw will also be important, for obvious reasons.
The thing is, I cannot really recommend this character class with these stats and this style. To be quite honest a wisdom-based character with 6 or 9 level spells (i.e. druid, shaman, inquisitor, warpriest/cleric) would work better. Starting with deadly aim and point-blank shot is not a bad idea, but even then, you can only take this character so far.
I´m hoping for some high intrigue in Taldor. Would it be too much to have Taldor enter the Chelaxian civil war or whatever was going down there around Hell´s Rebels / Vengeance?
Failing that, it´s been a while since an AP was last in NotAsia, so Jalmeray is a good option. Brevoy /First World would not be too bad, although it might be seen as pandering to the popularity of Game of Thrones. I wish we could get some hardcore Arabian Nights adventure in Kelesh, though.
The problem is this again hits warriors, who rely on weapons, while casters don´t give a south end of a north-bound rat about that. Okay, that is a bit of an exaggeration, but the less you rely on weapon damage, the less you care about weapon breakage. This is less of an issue if you rule that masterwork weapons don't break, but from what I got about your setting masterwork weapons should be quite rare themselves.
I get the idea of making fighters the warriors of the warriors, but I think it works better by improving them rather than hitting all other warriors (paladins, barbarians, rangers, slayers etc), because that throws them off in direct competition with the next BAB bracket, and as I said quite a few times, those kids have some serious mojo on top of their BAB. You end up either screwing several classes or having to rework almost every class to match the newly changed ones.
Why not give the fighters something along the lines of +1 BAB every 5 leves, extra AC from armor training (since there are no or few heavy armors in that setting, the current one isn't worth much) and a few other goodies instead? That way barbs can get their fun new thing and still wreck face, while not be as good with weapons as fighters are.
Hmm, I think 1st Edition D&D had something like that - your deity could veto certain spells or even give you something entirely different - but it would be a pain for the player and extra work for the GM.
I would not go that far, but if there is a product that gives you a more thematic list a la the spheres from 2E, that could be a decent solution. I have heard of the Spheres of Power book, does it do something like that?
Well, I do think the system works a lot better if fighters (and a few others) got their attack bonus even higher, to be honest. Besides, with the rules for fragile weapons, they are going to need it when they have to reach for a nearby big rock because their primary and secondary weapons just broke.
Sorry, I edited my stuff somewhat.
Alchemists with the right discovery can make full attacks with bombs, lobbing several attacks versus touch AC. The magus class can use its arcane pool to throw some pretty nasty empowered attacks a few times per day as well. Occultists and a few others iirc can do this for a while as well.
The weird thing is, for me a full caster throwing two spells per turn - one with a quicken spell (possibly with a rod of quicken to be able to fire it off without too many extra levels), the second empowered or persisted - is likely more powerful than either of the above in higher levels, and full casters can keep this up for a while. Sometimes, the briefest nova isn´t the strongest.
The wild shape gives more than just combat abilities, however. It can give them mobility, special attacks, special senses, etc. It is also very long duration and does not debuff the character later, which you said you want to do for the barbarian. You also mentioned weapons and armor being fairly primitive, which makes wildshape even more valuable (since you can get several primary natural attacks at full BAB).
By itself, it might not be enough to eclipse the fighter, but it isn´t everything a druid can do. This is just one of the class features of a class that has a strong pet, full casting and other pretty nice features. The spells are a huge deal on their own - especially in a setting where technology and equipment are less developed. Casters can make their own weapons and powerups, martials need to have them.
This is the competition your barbarian must contend with. I was asking for you to "sell me" on it so you can also visualize its strong points and compare them to those of its direct competitors - many of whom, as I mentioned, have level 6 or 9 casting and extra features. This is why I said that if your barbarian has medium BAB, you should consider giving it something on the level of wild shape, the druid class features, an animal companion AND a bit of casting (if not the whole 9 levels - the druid is imo a very strong class).
If you have a more or less concrete table of what barbies get per level so we can actually give you feedback on THAT, I´d love to see it.
@ Morlaf - You will often hear several classes mentioned as underpowers, and usually it is only classes with no or level 4 spellcasting. Conversely, all level 9 casters are seen as quite strong. This issue tends to emerge at medium levels and only gets more pronounced.
BTW, almost everything you mentioned as extra attacks, size etc is what a druid gets with wild shape. True, they start at level 4, but that isn't all that late. However, their bonuses are chosen by them, have long duration and do not cripple them later. That is just one of their features. If what your barbarian gets can match all of wild shape, the animal companion, all the druid features and, say, level 4 spellcasting, great. It would be a solid class. If not, well, you have something to work on in order to make it appealing for players.
The unchained rogue is an update of the rogue class in the Pathfinder unchained book. This book buffs rogues and monks, somewhat changes barbarians, and nerfs summoners.
There is a problem looking at this from a mechanical perspective. Medium BAB in pathfinder tends to go with a LOT of goodies. At the very least, every single feature that rogues and the like get. Even then, pre-unchained rogues and monks were bad enough that they had to be changed. Right now, if I remember correctly unchained rogues are the only non-magical class with medium BAB, and people tend to rate them fairly low. So yeah, for a combat class, medium BAB is kind of a huge deal. Classes that go with medium BAB and are seen as good (not OP) tend to have level 6 spells and then something extra (bardic mojo, eidolons, inquisitor tricks, etc).
You can tweak the game as you want, and I am not going to tell you you are WRONG and should NEVER do this. However, if you want to have a balanced barbarian class with medium BAB, you want what they get to compare well to everything a bard, inquisitor, hunter or shaman will get, spells included, and at least to all things an unchained rogue ever gets (I say at least, because the unchained rogue is sort of meh as well). Otherwise, barbarians will be unnecessarily weak in the game and a trap option for the players who want to try them - they will come in expecting to be cool and awesome and find out most everyone does their job better.
Look at it this way. Sell me on the barbarian class. Show me how it is better at being the nature's champion than a ranger, a combat-oriented druid or a hunter. I am not just talking fluff, I am talking how I can translate this fluff in the game.
Hi, I am considering trying out a shield user, probably a fighter, once I get the Armor Master Handbook. I was hoping to find a way to get the shield bonus to my touch attack (or at least against some spells such as rays) and I thought there might have been feats for that, but I cannot find them. All I can find are the shielded fighter and tower shield fighter archetypes, and I am not particularly fond of either. Am I missing something, like maybe a particular feat, enhancement for shields or a named magic item?
The 3.5 Pathfinder CS book had an option for fighters to lose their bonus feat at 1st level for 4+int skills and a better list, and I found it to be a very interesting option. If you are not using the Unchained rules for background skills and skill groups, I can definitely see fighters getting this feature - and heck, with how incredibly OP they are, I don´t see a need for it to cost a feat, either.
Hmm, to be honest for that sort of character I like slayer more than rogue (the extra base attack bonus is great), but if you have to, power attack definitely sounds good - even if you are using dexterity for attack and damage, you can probably spare a score of 13 or 14 for strength, and push everything into dexterity afterwards. I will also chime in for using major magic with vanish, having several uses of invisibility strikes me as very cool for a rogue. I am not sold on swordplay style as rogues don´t have as many feats as fighters, but it might be handy. I would definitely want furious focus f you go for PA though, you do not want to miss with your first attack (especially if you are use the scout archetype and intend to only make one attack).
By the way, combat stamina can be a handy trick for a rogue. Even without any of the feat unlocks, being able to have a stamina pool you can use for bonuses to attack is quite decent.
Outside of homebrewing, that is :/ . TBH an unchained fighter would have been much more welcome than an unchained barbarian, maybe even the summoner.
To be honest, Unchained did have a lot of stuff for the fighters - combat stamina, variant skills, etc - but it was not meant to be. Was there ever a statement why there was no unchained fighter, by the way?
Deighton Thrane wrote:
They have an FAQ explaining that if the ability says that it works like the fighter's weapon training, it counts as weapon training. If it doesn't, then it doesn't count as weapon training. Swashbuckler weapon training doesn't say it otherwise works as the fighter ability.
Sorry, but could you please post a link or a date of the errata? I have not heard of it and cannot immediately find it. http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qftq&page=11?Revised-Swashbuckler-Discussi on#530 and http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm seem to point in the other direction.
Mind you, according to the designer involved, it should be okay to have the equivalent of duelist gloves for Swashbucklers - and considering that they are meant to replace the duelist PrC, I´d call those the duelist gloves and use something like "weaponmaster´s gloves" for regular fighters.
Martial weapon proficiency gives you proficiency with one martial weapon. I assume it is the scimitar in your case - alternatively you can go with half elf for racial proficiency, or get WF rapier and fencing grace. Mind you, half-elf bards really get a lot of mileage out of SF Perform for their main perform mode. Also, you cannot take discordant voice at that level, unless you have any early access options. It requires 10 ranks in a skill, which in pathfinder means level 10.
The thing with bard is that usually, your performances either focus on buffs or debuffs, and you compensate with spells for the missing part. For example, the court bard is a great debuffer, but you must use spells to buff your allies. The standard bard is a very good buffer, but your performances aren´t that good when it comes to debuffing.
If you want to debuff with spells, spell focus and greater spell focus for the schools you most use can be worthwhile. Likewise, persistent spell and spell penetration may be very useful. Also, look for ways to intimidate your enemies - this is not just a physical debuff but also weakens their saves and is usually keyed off charisma.