Buff focused sorcerer. You have two characters that wouldn't mind a free bull's strength all the time. Upon reaching 6th haste can be your opener, and that's a party that will really enjoy haste. Hang on to stuff like resist energy and dispel magic to take care of any problems that might pop up.
Another good option for a buffer is a mystic theurge. They're not super powerful or anything, you'll probably be lagging behind a bit as far as power goes but you'll always have those little solutions like remove fear or hold portal.
Illusionist could be fun too. Go gnome, take that feat that lets you concentrate as a swift, keep your threatening illusion metamagiced spell up all the time as you walk through the dungeon. You can set up walls that lead to angry elves or flanks with furry sneak attacking things and probably do that whole haste/bull strength thing on top of all that.
Jump right in to GMing please! The world needs more people willing to run a game for everyone else. Use an AP or scrounge up an old Dungeon Magazine if you're nervous about coming up with an adventure completely from scratch. Nothing wrong with re-skinning those things either, who says Jade Regnant can't be a group of Arctic halflings with sled dogs using strangely similar rules to Caravan rules.
I might do that now.
If your GM will allow it take a look at the 3.5 feat Practiced Spellcaster. Raises your caster level for one class by 4 up to your HD (kind of like boon companion for your caster level.) Take it twice and save your trait for magical lineage.
That one is kind of super important so feel free to offer to bring soda for x number of sessions or buy pizza for the DM. There's no shame in a little bribing every now and then, lol.
'Rules Lawyer' is kind of an objective term. I've seen it where someone who knows a lot about the game delegates confusion and disputes. Then there's a jerk who shouts about how he's right and doesn't look stuff up. It's not that he knows the rules, it's that he's being a jerk about a game and is trying to win what is essentially an objective story telling device.
So a friend and I were talking the other night about a catfolk barbarian he wants to play. The idea is to take the Cat's Claws alternate racial trait then go Lesser Beast Totem at second level and get four primary claw attacks. He says there's nothing in the rules that says he can't do it but it really REALLY makes me raise an eyebrow.
To review, here's the wording on Lesser Beast Totem: "Benefit: While raging, the barbarian gains two claw attacks. These attacks are considered primary attacks and are made at the barbarian’s full base attack bonus. The claws deal 1d6 points of slashing damage (1d4 if Small) plus the barbarian’s Strength modifier."
And here's Cats Claws: Some catfolk have stronger and more developed claws than other members of their race, and can use them to make attacks. catfolk with this racial trait have a pair of claws they can use as natural weapons. These claws are primary attacks that deal 1d4 points of damage. This racial trait replaces natural hunter.
Can't seem to find a specific rule that says you can't pull that one off but it just seems so... off.
Loved reading through this, sounds like everyone is having a lot of fun and keep it going. Heres my favorite bit of advice...
The best GMs I've ever have are remorseless thieves. Steal stuff from your favorite movies, video games, books, animu, etc etc etc. Just change the names and they'll never suspect a thing. Another thing I picked up at some pannel at gencon was to pick your favorite protagonists and make them antagonists.
Oh the evil duplicates thing, I've seen it as a lower level encounter before. When they drop the first duplicate just halve the others HP to make it so its not a 'it might go really sour if they get lucky' fight. But do whatever, just have fun!
We almost did it for one game but the DM allowed psions and that was pretty much my only chance to play one and then everyone did their own thing. Thing is, 4 subpar fighters and 4 subpar wizards would probably outclass 2 good fighters and 2 good wizards (depending on level, see the wizard with mind blank picking his nose theory). Those eidelons can also be tooled out to be flying-pounce cruise missiles that crap damage the first round of combat.
That being said I think being in a 5-6 rogue party would be a blast, not optimized or anything but everyone would be using acrobatics to jump around, sneak attacking, running away from elementals, and being a bunch of dynamic heavily skilled people would be awesome. Probably doesn't shine as much in a society game as it does in a home brew tailored to that but still... it would be like oceans 11.
Oh man, you could totally introduce the characters by asking them what they're doing the moment they get asked what they're doing before the adventure. So you have the one guy doing that find the card game, one of them is in a bar fight, one of them is walking down the street stealing stuff like nobodys business etc etc etc
The 'Wad of Summoners' approach is probably the most dangerous party but I think they would have trouble dealing with higher level arcane casters messing with them from afar or using spells like dimensional lock to shut them down. The 20th level wizard can sit and pick his nose with a mind blank up while casting demand until he decides to take a nap, so you would probably need someone to counter that. Probably another wizard. So a wizard and a wad of summoners?
I dunno, I've always liked when everyone just makes a character and you adventure together. If you end up with a bunch of fighters than you're cool knights that run around and hit things. If you really need a cleric or a wizard well... that's called natural selection.
Jack Rift wrote:
Fire domain is the quickest one that comes to mind. But that is domain spells only.
Aren't there some ways that a cleric can spontaneously cast domain spells. You could pull the ole magical lineage and fireball trick with that. As someone gearing up to play a cleric this has sparked some interest... I've always enjoyed blowing stuff up after all...
I wouldn't kick anyone out, they all work together and real life trumps gaming stuff. I have had players that like to mess around with NPCs and stuff and generally be a dingus at the table and all you really have to do is give the baby their bottle.
Now don't shower them in gold or make it so they're more powerful than everyone else, but give them non game changing stuff that they can fiddle with. Andy mentioned he wanted to spend his money on booze and loose women (a noble pursuit), than why not give him a whore house? Come up with some plot line where... I dunno... one of his favorite prostitutes is in a lot of trouble and asks Andy for help. Toss in a monster pimp somewhere he can stab, than when he's done the prostitutes are like, "we're taking over the whore business, but you can do whatever you want without paying or talking about it excessively out of game."
So I'm fiddling around with a Rogue with a splash of Fighter that uses the Sap Adept and Sap Master feats. I know they can take the bleeding attack Ninja Trick but I was wondering how the bleed damage would work if you're dealing non-lethal damage. I think the bleed damage would be lethal and the normal damage wouldn't.
The reason I wonder is that it's hard to imagine a sap doing bleed damage, and whenever I raise an eyebrow about these things there's something in the RAW that says I can do it.
>my bard is now in serious risk of dying
Advice aside, never say never. Think outside the box and lie your head off! The survival game is fun anyway and you've got the skills to pay the bills.
In any case sorcerer with the silvan bloodline is the thing that's been on my mind lately. Using sorc/wiz spells to buff an animal companion sounds fun.
Other than that just pick something that looks fun, level 1 isn't something you need to power game. It's part of character development, think of someone cool you want to be and roll with it.
Even without Paragon Surge (Holy crap wtf) I think that although wizards are great at handling different situations and using prep time to ace encounters, the ability to go all out in most encounters balances the sorcerer. Where the wizard tosses away that one web he prepped and kicks himself for not having it later, the sorcerer tossed 2 in the last encounter and plans on doing it a couple more times in the next one. Sure the wizard has his fireball or his haste, but the sorcerer makes up for it with the shear volume of stuff he can lay down, never really questioning if he should save something for the next fight.
I hate fumble rules, its been my experience that the GMs that tend to use them like to "play to win" pathfinder and laugh like d-bags when a PC messes up.
It also messes up anyone that wants to take an extra attack, so twf or monk's flurry becomes a far weaker option and discourages someone who wants to play someone who uses those. Meanwhile they favor things like magic missiles and fireballs.
I'm sure someone could think for hours on how to make some critical miss system that works but is it really worth the time?
See, perfect. You can fireball like crazy at that point and just drag your enemies away. If you could some how put them in stasis and toss them in a Leo- er... Secret Chest you could have them for safe storage until you toss them away.
What kind of theme/fluff do you want to apply to the character? Might help with that and go on.
There is that metamagic that allows you to convert to non-lethal and I think its +1 spell level if that. You could use transmutation and abjuration to create some sort of super jail for enemies you defeat. Then you could have a cool Arkum Asylum in Sandpoint (as a GM I'd love to play with that).
Don't worry about them using them against you. They're your items, you use them every session, your GM will use them once. Make stuff that is going to be two of a good thing, when you slay your enemies you have double.
Make a bunch of utility stuff too. Think about a bag of holding. What good is it in a single fight? None. How useful is it to the party in the long term? A lot.
Don't poo poo the barbarian just yet. d12 hit die and fast movement are great even if you don't use your rage all that often. Rage is good in a pinch too, like if you're out of spells and just need swing at things as hard as you can.
Samurai would be good for the proficiencies. I assume jade regent has a lot of eastern weapons floating around, being able to use them might come in handy.
On the other hand, instead of disallowing arcane casters maybe the council wouldn't allow anyone who wouldn't understand the delicate art of arcane mastery. At this point you could specify that you would allow ONLY people with some arcane ability.
This makes fights interesting and you'll have to adjust accordingly, but that's doable. A team of arcane casters can get past encounters, maybe not in an optimal sense but it will certainly make them think. Also fosters a healthy fear of swords.
The PCs are also directly involved in arcane business and would probably start scheming. THATS GOOD! There's this big backstory about casters scheming against each other, you know their personalities and how they function. This allows you to easily form challenges for a new caster cabal! Think about it, the PCs are a new cabal of mages, the ones who could possibly reshape the world.
Now in some groups, this might seem like dirty poker but if you take craft party's most desired item you don't necessarily have to craft it at half price. After all, you took a feat and you should see something from it right? Maybe charge something a tad over 50% for those items. 75% is easy math right? Someone wants that headband of whatever you make yourself 1000 gp. Do it again and you have enough for your own.
This isn't going to work with everyone, but a little real life diplomacy check with your fellow PCs and you can make them understand that a feat is a sacrifice and you need a little compensation.
^lol, perhaps the fabrication process includes "meat flavoring" and food coloring.
On the subject of simulacrums, a 1 HD one costs 500 gp. I think that's a pretty good deal for a first level PC. First level clerics would charge for healing at a discounted price, first level wizards can scribe scrolls as first level alchemists can make potions. There's also the option of making one that just works for free and renting them out.
Lets see, someone earns half their profession result in gp per week of work. So assuming we find a 16 wisdom gnome that took profession at first level and skill focused it we end up with a bonus of +12. On average its going to make about 10 gold a week. It will pay for itself in 50 weeks give or take and then is just sort of free income. That being said, you probably don't want to employ this business strategy unless you're entering a time rift and expect to exit when you have a nice stash saved up. Then you have to pay for security for that gold being stored, which I suppose could be achieved via insurance if such a thing exists.
Say... you could always sell insurance. Or even... "insurance" *cracks knuckles*
A while ago a friend of mine theorized that high level dwarven transmuters supplied the vast underground cities with infinite sustanace via stone to flesh and fabricate. Stone to flesh cast on just plain old stone turns rock into a cylinder into inert flesh. After that the dwarf would only have to get some tin paper and ink (for the can and label) and fabricate the inert flesh into a can. This dwarven staple is commonly referred to as Spam.
The gems unaffected by stone to flesh were prizes.
For cleric, the liberation domain gives you freedom of movement for one round which can be a life saver even for that short amount of time. Your spells aren't going to be super useful though.
A dip into wizard is always useful on a rogue. Ranged sneak attacks with acid splash is a good opener and might be a way you can kite things if you really need to (expeditious retreat helps with this). Shield is a good way to juice up your AC, silent image can provide you with cover to hide behind, the list goes on.
There's also the option to take a familiar which doesn't get powerful wizard upgrades but does get all the skill ranks you have. I'm willing to bet its going to be better at stealth than anyone else in the party for quite some time.
As far as school goes in CRB, I'd go transmuter. +2 to a physical stat is pretty good stuff, even if you're just bumping your con.
Strong and silent type is what you have to pull off. Your character understands that, socially, he is out of his element. Best to stay quiet, the most logical decision he can make.
For roleplaying fun, find a moment with a party member you trust the most and confide in him/her. Let them know that you understand what's important but why it's hard for you and ask for advice.
As a monk you're a high wisdom lawful character. The most efficient decision is to make sure your party knows your weak in this social situation. It's an obligation to them and something a lawful neutral with good tendencies can't ignore. Get their advice, let them guide you, let them help you. In some situations it is wise to rely on others.
Thematically I love the idea of a martial artist/master of many styles. Optimization aside, it's a character focused entirely on the skill of martial arts which is straight up awesome.
Combat wise access to crane style and the ability to take fighter feats makes it viable for a monk to center around build lacking flurry. Concentrate on attacks of opportunity. Panther style (I think thats the one) lets you hit people that miss you, which means you can fight defensively, attack once, then run around provoking from everyone. If they attack odds are they're going to hurt themselves, if they don't you can go whereever you want. Later on dragon style will boost your ability to beat people up. Sounds like a lot of fun to me.
Dont think it exists but that one dwarf archtype that gets natural armor instead of divine grace. It eliminates some of the need for a cha score so it lets you concentrate on other stuff.
Divine Grace is nothing to scoff at though. AC helps but in the end is that you make your saves against nasty things, and you'll be the one standing when you need to stand. You and the monk.
My experience with Society is that it doesn't require an optimized character. Playing something super powerful kind of ruins it, honestly. Sniper rogue sounds perfect though, lots of skills and a big opportunity to feel cool. Concentrate on your personality and why you're in the society, do cool heroic things, take risks and make mistakes and the like. Don't worry about being kingbadass, just have yourself a good time!
One of the best ways to pick it up is to practice. In the shower have a conversation between two NPCs, when you're watching TV find an interesting character and try to act like him. See if you can pick up the small things you notice about characters that inspire you. It's not just voices but attitude too, Robert Downy Junior could have a completely different voice and still pull off a great Tony Stark because of how he says stuff, fast, confident, constantly switching gears.
Here's the thing though... if you have roommates they might start giving you funny looks when you start talking to yourselves. Sacrifices must be made though.
Pick up a vicious merciful blade or whip. You're going to toss on an extra 3d6 points of nonleathal and you take 1d6 nonleathal which will most likely be soaked up by your DR and if it isn't oh well you take a small amount of nonleathal and get a bonus for a round.
I like the flavor of the whip a lot, you could be a Cenebit- er... Kyton worshiper and instead of a whip it could be a thin chain.
For up close you could perhaps do unarmed? Maybe take a couple levels in monk and pick up something that lets you do slashing with unarmed strike, snatch up crane style while you're at it. At a distance with cruelty you're dishing out 5d6+1d4+whatever and maybe a little control which should make you a viable target but OH WAIT CRANE WING YOU DON'T HIT.
It's like you both physically and psychologically torture them. Not to mention knocking them out means you can poke them with a stick later and annoy your GM!
I've seen a cleric with a bow work even back in 3.5
Proficiency in a bow isn't that hard to get, take your time and focus on those feats. It gives you something to do when people aren't in trouble but if people are going to rely on you as the primary healer than that's your job. The archery will take care of itself, its good stuff. No you're not going to nuke things like a paladin or a fighter will, but you have remove whatever/cure spells/make someone immune to something in your back pocket.
You'll hurt things with a bow, not hard to do.
Not something I'd invest in BUT I'd go with the regular blur. Its your cheapest option, lasts a good enough hunk of time and your sneak friend will thank you for the constant concealment (because you should be generous with that my paladin friend). The rest of that money should go for some sweet combat item, you know the good ones.
Well the -20 thing lets you grab party members in need. We're this in 3.5 they could automatically fail their grapple check? Maybe one could argue that they could take -1000 on their CMD or something? It's like a low budget dimension door.
As far as enemies go I think you're going to have trouble taking one round to grab and fly away. If there was a way you could some how give it greater grapple or even that rapid grappling feat then you could use it's other grapple actions to fly away. You'd have to pump it's int to get it improved unarmed etc etc etc but I think it may be a strange RAW way to focus on that.
I think the way it would work would be the Roc would fly down and grapple the first round, and the second round it makes a grapple check to move in the grapple.
I'm not entirely sure how you would pull off the swoop-by though, seems like it would be helpful against enemies and useful for friends who need to get out of trouble. Keeping my eye on the thread.
The crossbow is good for one thing as far as I can tell and thats firing whole prone. Sure that's not super helpful when fighting something that wants to eat you but from a distance its +4 AC. So if you had some ability to stand as a free you could start going prone a whole bunch. I guess it would have its uses...
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Probably a silly question but how does it get huge sized from adding HD. I'm pretty sure it does but I'm not sure where the rule comes from in case I need to point it out for a COMPLETELY UNRELATED REASON.
Just take your time and keep it nice and simple. Just make sure you guys keep laughing and having fun at what you're doing. Just because you're running a module, though, don't be afraid to improvise. If one of your party wants to mess with the NPCs giving the quest or the tavern in town just roll with it and enjoy it. Who knows, you might end up setting the module aside and doing what your players decide to do. (that of course doesn't mean you cant nudge them toward that big thing you just read through).
Funny story, I tried to get my PCs to do Crypt of Everflame for a good 4 sessions and they kept doing other stuff. Eventually they went to it and I had to write entirely different thing with a new premise but it worked out great anyway!