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The_Hanged_Man's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 344 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 4 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Perhaps I missed this but was the policy for delivering subscription PDFs changed? I know it used to be on shipment date, but my August shipment date is on the 22nd but I received all of my PDFs including the Advanced Class Guide and Iron Gods 1.

FYI, I did have some payment method glitches due to moving and a couple months got lumped together. Maybe something happened there. I love getting stuff early, but wanted to point out a potential glitch in the system.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Joshua Goudreau wrote:
If I was right with a Call of Cthulhu inspired AP, I will be the happiest fanboy ever.

Right there with you. Come on Aucturn! Papa needs a new pair of sabatons.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hmm...the guide suggests taking constructs and humanoid (android) as favored enemy. However, androids count as constructs for the purposes of such things. Any point in not just taking constructs (other than flavor)?

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm going to guess something culminating in Aucturn and the Citadel of the Black. Previous APs have danced around mythos/dominion of the black and distant worlds, but there has not been one directly focused on it yet. Plus James loves that sort of thing too. (Hmm...not exactly traditional fantasy though...) This would be my number one pick for an AP though, so I hope we get it at some point!

Stars are right!

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ok I have to to ask. What is this Croloch of which they speak? Google is not producing a useful answer.

Edit: I get that it is slashfic, but I don't get the reference.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
LazarX wrote:


it's not necessarily a case of a GM restricting access.. The OP may want an answer for when he's out in a desert or in the middle of a jungle, places which generally have a dearth of marketplaces... or Magic Marts.

If you have access to 9th level spells, you have access to teleport, and place is no longer an issue.

Goodness, you don't even need to teleport yourself. Just summon something (like a ghaele) and ask it to go shopping for you.

Two possible problems.

1. Most Divine characters (the ones that would be casting miracle) don't have access to teleport (and keep in mind that if the spell is being run properly, you're rolling for mishap on BOTH legs of the trip.)

2. The ghaele will be expecting something for it's services.

Miracle can replicate any non-cleric spell up to 7th level without needing the diamond. So Greater teleport is no problem.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Nearyn wrote:

@The_Hanged_Man: Oh no, not at all. In fact, the only cleric I'm presently playing is level 4. And I've got no reason to think my GM will restrict DD when it becomes relevant. I asked because I wanted to see if there were ways I could make it/aquire it regardless of local supply :)

@icehawk333: That made me crack up. Good job xD

-Nearyn

It won't be a problem. Things like teleport and high level divination magic make finding and getting to a fairly basic commodity a non-issue as long as the GM isn't trying to prevent it for some reason.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Nearyn wrote:

Is there way to get the requisite 25.000 gps diamond dust needed to cast the empowered(not the metamagic) miracle, other than rely on the market? I'm not talking about adventuring, striking deals with dwarves, or buying them from insanely rich gemcutters or whatnot.

What I want to know is if there is a way to take 25.000 gp and turn it into 25.000 gps worth of diamond? Not looking for blood-money shenanigans or anything related to saving money on the transaction, merely the transformation of cash into what I need.

Thanks in advance :)

-Nearyn

Is your GM trying to restrict diamond dust for some reason? As a GM I would consider allowing a regular miracle to either transform the gold or allow access to purchase it. If you have access to 9th level spells issues like these should fairly trivial. As you said you are not trying to milk the system so I'm not sure what the issue is.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

My Pathfinder Society Witch has a Faerie Dragon Improved Familiar (and the Chronicle it requires, of course) - I'm double-checking what I can do with him, based on things I've read around these forums.

Can I:

- Keep the standard Faerie Dragon hit point total if it's better than what half of mine would be?
- Swap out either or both of the feats he comes with (particlarly for the sake of feats like some of the ones here)?
- Swap out his Spells Known (the Faerie Dragon Bestiary 3 entry merely lists what is "normal" for a Faerie Dragon to know)?

Then there's this:

"Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher."

How far does this extend? Should his BAB be as though he has 8 HD (which would be at odds with what it says about BAB - unless familiars with superior BABs would be allowed to keep them)? How about his saving throw bonuses (this is more plausible)? I imagine it increases his Breath Weapon DC. If he uses a staff, does his CL equal mine for the purposes of determining the staff's power? The Big Question: What about his CL (for sorcerer spells and/or his spell-like ability) and concentration bonus? Should he, by chance, get ability score increases commensurate with having 8 virtual HD (I'm assuming one thing he doesn't get is increased spell levels/spells per day/spells known)? A Faerie Dragon has 3 HD by default, so I'm sure it's no coincidence that their CL is listed as 3rd.

You only get to do exactly what it says in the familiar entry. So, the HP are half the master's hit points and you can't change the feats or spells. The HD just relates to effects like spells affecting the familiar, for example sleep or something like that. Familiars don't really level up with the degree of customization that animal companions get. You just get the the extra stuff listed in the table (NA, Int, etc.) in the familiar entry.

Andoran

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MrSin wrote:


On the other hand, if its only a few prcs that are good then what am I paying for? What is all this extra bookspace? Books are expensive things!

Good question. If enough people vote no with their wallets Paizo will stop making them or change (for better or worse) their strategy. Paizo can't please everyone though. If they release books with consistently good options people complain. Power creep! Fluffy options? Pointless bloat! Seemingly balanced options? Marginalizing or replacing core material!

Honestly I have no idea how game developers maintain their sanity in the face of all this.

Otherwise, if book space is a problem get PDFs. If money is a problem then just pick and choose what you want for free off the srd and prd sites. Paizo gives away all of their rules for free, which is one of the reasons I love this company.

Andoran

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Paizo has not released an actual rules book in what...almost a year now and people are still panicking about bloat. Paizo is a publishing company. They need to publish stuff to stay in business, and in order for people to want to buy their new stuff it has to offer something new.

So, there are a handful of PrCs that were released in a campaign guide that happen to actually be worth taking from a mechanical point of view. How is this a problem? If you don't like it, don't include it in your campaign.

In my last campaign we stuck with mainly Core, APG, and Mythic. Stuff from other sources were allowed on a case by case basis. Everything was fine, and people had fun playing the game which is what really matters.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.
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Calybos1 wrote:
Auto-hit + Force damage + No save = Always useful.

Yep, good ol' magic missile is safe reliable damage. Not exciting but it gets the job done.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If it was only Dex at zero I could see it working...but since encumbrance directly impacts flight speed (regardless of source) and your Str is also zero no movement is possible with any gear at all. Unless you are into flying around naked in ghoul warrens you are pretty much stuck.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
jimibones83 wrote:


I get that 6 seconds incorperates everyone's turn, but my point is that the attack after the charge happens at the end of that players turn so it would be at the conclusion of the 6 seconds, there for yes there was "nearly"(as I stated before) 6 seconds to mentally absorb the ...

The end of a turn happens at their initiative step and not the end of the full six seconds. Those going after them receive the damage and then can react in turn with their full set of actions. Obviously each can not take a full six seconds to resolve. Pathfinder is an abstract turn based system that does not attempt to model reality perfectly.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Pigraven wrote:
Lorian wrote:
Glutton wrote:
Wait a minute, where the heck is my garg T-rex?!

Right here!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004I2CICO/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i03?ie=U TF8&psc=1

Do you happen to have this guy? I noticed he is 8+ inches long. As long as I can mount him (hehe) on a four inch base I'm good. Are his legs close enough together to where I can mount him? (*Sigh* I just can't win with my words tonight..)

I have this guy:

http://www.amazon.com/Tyrannosaurus-Colors-May-Vary-Green/dp/B000KO7QK8/ref =pd_sim_t_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=125T80DMCE5N088FF2CF

His feet fit on a 4" base...but the tail overs hangs a bit. It is really stable so there is no need to mount him...uhh...unless you are into that sort of thing I guess. He looks great btw.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

+1 To the Nightcrawler idea. There is yet to be had a gargantuan worm-type creature and the DDM nightshades were a big let down. If done right this could be one terrifying and cool mini.

I know this isn't supposed to be a dragon, but the Red Dragon is a big hole to be filled. DDM might beat Paizo to the punch though. The promo for the Tyranny of Dragons set is almost certainly going to be dragon and most likely a red or maybe even Tiamat (which would be freakin' awesome!).

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

How about a bandersnatch? A classic and whimsical monster that has not been done before. Plus, an animalistic gargantuan would be great too, as demons and dragons have been done well covered at this point.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Chaotic Evil is a tough alignment to hang out with. Even the Way of Wicked, an expressly evil adventure path, does not allow CE (or CN for that matter) PCs as written. The Antipaladin code in particular can make it difficult to even pretend to not be evil, which makes him a hard sell for all but the darkest of groups.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Don't worry about it. Animal companions don't scale well for the higher levels anyway, so let him enjoy it while he can.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
BlueAria wrote:
Do you have the same rule for extended 1/hour per level spells? What about spells with 1/day or longer effects?

Hmm...my main concern is about buff stacking. So a 1/day charm monster I wouldn't care about, but 1/hour buff spell I would probably count against the limit. The main intent is preventing the group from milking extra castings through Recuperation with long duration spells.

That said, I'm actually running a mythic campaign, but my group hasn't attempted to do this yet though so I haven't needed to actually address this. My group is pretty good about self-policing though, but I can see it being an issue for others.

Andoran

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I hit FAQ and agree this is unclear. Personally, I lean towards the not getting everything back side of things (this can lead to some stacking of buffs issues on 10 min/level or longer spells), but think the difference is small in practical terms. The reason why is if the group can afford to sit around for an hour (two with memorizing new spells) then they might as well be sitting around for eight hours in most situations. Both cases involve the group being able to rest peacefully for an extended period of time which can be easily interrupted.

Since generally everyone in the group has this same ability it is easy for a GM to plan around this for time critical situations. Instead of having a few days to stop the evil wizard from opening the gates to hell you only have a few hours. Personally, I think the later is much more exciting than having a group laze about for an entire day because they are out of juice when the world is about to end.

If the intent is to completely restore all spells, then I would probably houserule that any ongoing spells count against the daily limit to prevent stacking though.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The Beard wrote:


Suffice to say, and I speak from GM experience on this one, sometimes you need to just let the dragon land. Besides, red dragons seem to be the most common variety used by GMs, and they are even noted to love physical combat. They will often land and fight despite how unwise it might be.

I'm going to disagree here. Any group can easily adapt to this tactic. Even a group of all fighters can drink fly potions. If this was a surprise dragon attack (which are very difficult to deal with) then, yes, the group may need to retreat and regroup. However, a group who is knows a battle with a red dragon is nigh, and doesn't prepare for fire and flight, deserves their defeat.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rynjin wrote:


Same with Save or Die effects. There's no skill involved, you didn't outplay the guy, he didn't make a mistake or play poorly, you just said "Die, b!%%&" and then he did.

Is it really skill or just the binary nature of the effect? For example, there isn't much player skill in rolling a full attack or casting a massive damage spell either. The main difference is that generally, due to the random nature of rolling lots of dice, an outright kill is not the only outcome. Sure you can get crit or roll max damage and one-shot someone, but generally that does not happen. Save or die/suck effects, on the other hand, are generally all or nothing. Rolling more dice does not equal skill. What is more fun is a matter of opinion though.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.
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Sindalla wrote:


See? That sucks, if I wanted to break the Druid, I could, I get that, yes, they're powerful, but I wanted to use a cool character concept and the game just doesn't support it well at all.

Well, there's your problem. It's not that Druids or wildshape suck, it's that bears are not particularly impressive in Pathfinder. Some animal forms are just better than others, and bears got the fuzzy end of the lollipop this time around. Talk to your GM and see if he will let you re-skin a large cat. Alternatively, you could ask to apply a giant template to dire bears if you want go huge.

The large/huge thing in a corridor thing will exist no matter what though. You can't expect a medium sized bear to be particularly impressive (Black bears only have a 17 str and a 17 AC, for example). However, there are lots of other options (Earth Elemental, for example) that still shine in that situation. One of the defining characteristics of a druid is versatility. You are welcome to stick to one form if you want, but you are limiting yourself.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sindalla wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
Are you doing Pathfinder Society Sindalla? Because if you're not, it's not difficult to come up with a wildshaping class that could be a far better shapeshifter and thus melee combatant than the Druid has a right to be.
No, I'm not doing PFS, I was planning on making a Druid for our Wrath of the Righteous game next month. It involves mythic leveling, and I wanted to do a guardian role. Dwarven bear shaman. I thought it's be a fun, cool concept, and then realized, nope, the Druid wildshape sucks. I mean, if I could AT LEAST, get the stats no matter what size I become, I'd consider it to be worth it, but in order to make maximum usefulness of the bear shaman, I could, in the best situations, be a large bear, here are no huge bears.

I'm playing a mythic Druid myself, and it is pure awesome sauce. If you want to go full melee then start with an 17 or 18 str. By 4th level you will hit 22 in bear form or 24 assuming you have get str belt. Just wait until you get the elemental forms...so much awesome there.

Trust me at the mid-levels melee Druids simply dominate martial classes in combat, and are full casters with a pet to boot. Top tier class all around.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Nathanael Love wrote:
You are correct; in the change from 3.5 to PF they nerfed Wild Shape hard and it is not really worth using now.

Wow. I've played a druid through two complete campaigns and it is a great class with tremendous versatility. Even if you are not a melee druid, wildshape is a fantastic tool in terms of both in terms of utility and defense.

Andoran

2 people marked this as a favorite.
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Aranna wrote:
Sure you can meta magic the hell out of spells if you have enough feats. BUT those 1st level slots are still sitting unused.

Right because spells like charm person, cure light wounds, prot evil, and true strike never get used at high levels.

Oh wait...they totally do. Just because a spell is not the big gun for your level does not means that it is useless. Also, all those other non-combat utility spells are part of what make magic-users awesome.

Plus, low level spells scale for free for magic-users while psionicists always need to pay for exactly what they get. Have you seen what a Heavens Oracle can do with Color Spray? Or what a Magus can do with Shocking Grasp (Magical Lineage+Intensify)? Both of those are used with amazing effectiveness even at higher levels for a level one slot. Show me a usage of a Psionics power that can come close to that for one PP, and we can talk about Psionics being overpowered again.

Edit: In a game I am playing, the group was fighting a critter whose extreme beauty forced a save or die each round for anyone beholding her. My 12th level/ 2nd Mythic Tier druid dropped an Obscuring Mist and totally shut that down. First level spells useless at higher levels? Ha!

Andoran

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I admit that I did not like how this was set up either. It is enough punishment to deny the group the goddess's favor in the form of aid, and it seems crass and petty for her to effectively torture the group for not giving her the answers she wants to hear.

I think the trumpet blasts even fail to teach humility since they have a DC attached to them. Once you attach numbers to gods they just become another monster to kill for some groups, and this is bad form IMO. Sure, the DC is pretty high but at this level with mythic surges the saves are completely within realm of possibility to make, and the group might think they could take her at that point. IMO, a true god should be several magnitudes of power greater than any mortal and should be able to smite them down for their hubris with but a thought if they so choose.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
6 OF 66 OF HEXAMATRIX 666 wrote:

I am hoping that Spell resistance do not protect against psionics like it was in D&D's first two editions.

The degree of transparency is presented as an option in the book, although the authors suggest transparency as default. This is largely due to effects such as antimagic fields becoming horrifically effectively when magics and psionics are non-transparent.

Andoran

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Cristiano Marcelino de Paula wrote:
Its a RPG guys, not a board static game.

To be really honest Pathfinder is not great at depicting cinematic combat when the rules are followed exactly. There is always GM fiat, but if you prefer a loose cinematic style a less deterministic system might fit your style better.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shalafi2412 wrote:
Are these supposed to tie into 5th edition? Has there been any word when and if that system will be released?

That's my guess. The playtest is over, and I think they are shooting for the big release during Gencon this year.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.
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PsychoticWarrior wrote:
DonKeebals wrote:

and I'd love to buy my minis from them too because their customer service is outstanding. But if I can save $30 on a brick of minis, I will.

So their customer service, while 'outstanding' is effectively worthless to you. You won't pay for it and go to others for a cheaper price .

There is a big difference between "worthless" and not worth an extra $30 or 30%. I'm pretty sure there is a price difference ($50, $100, $1 million, etc), where anyone would buy from someone else regardless of disparities in customer service.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Aranna wrote:

Expect a TPK.

Why? Because players rarely act the way you want them to. So expect them to behave in the worst possible way during an encounter. I would expect them to end up fighting the sandworm critter.

I agree. Also, starting a campaign with an unwinnable fight with a built in Deus Ex Machina is generally not a good idea. The players, not the whims of the DM, should be heroes of the story.

Edit: Also I typically give xp for players resolving/surviving an encounter regardless of the means (Truth be told, however, I don't use xp in most campaigns and level through fiat). There is a real danger of a TPK in this encounter so I would definitely grant some kind of reward.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Driver 325 yards wrote:


The benefits of having a AC is pretty well spelled out in the rules. One of those advantages (absent GM fiat) is not that an AC mount is any more tame than another combat trained mount (possibly excluding animal companions with an intelligence of 3 or above).

The rules call out that the AC is both closely bonded and loyal to the PC. Neither of which applies to the random tiger you just bought at the market. That trained tiger is perfectly capable of turning on the handler or group. They are cheap probably because they are just plain dangerous to have around.

If you want something loyal either take an AC or a cohort with the leadership feat.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

How about a Druid? They are probably one of the most flexible classes in the game and their magic can thematically exist well in low fantasy settings. As full casters with wild shape, they are also not particularly dependent on gear. You don't need magic swords or armor when you can shapeshift into a tiger.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Stephen Ede wrote:
Marthkus wrote:
Mondoglimmer wrote:
Taking things away from people doesn't always mean ruining their fun.
Unless you are talking about tumors, I don't grasp your point.
Giving people more candy and drugs isn't actually making a better game.

Sure. It is easy to give up something you never had. But just try taking candy or drugs away from people and they will flip out. Crane Wing being a case in point. If a single feat chain can cause this much trouble, imagine how monkeying with the DCs of a school of magic or the entire magic system will play out.

I can see an upper level boost to martials work out, but weakening casters will never fly in the community.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:

They should be able to do different, YET EQUIVALENT, things as a spellcaster of the same level.

If this means toning down spellcasters, then that IS an option.

Easy to say, very difficult to pull off. My main concern is that if they prioritize balance too high the game will no longer feel like D&D. For example, there is a particular game-that-shall-not-be-named (let's call it Voldemort). Voldemort did a bang up job of balancing the classes. However, while still fun in tactical sense, Voldemort was stripped of a lot it's flavor, a lot of the classes felt the same to play, and essentially it just did not feel like the game I grew up playing. As result poor Voldemort is being discarded ahead of its time in favor of a system that is deliberately trying to be more true to its roots.

I'm not saying balance at the higher levels is not an issue. However, releasing a lion into your house to catch mice, while effective, comes with its own set of problems. I'm actually a big fan of balance in a system but it shouldn't be the only, or even the highest priority, factor to consider. Sometimes the trade offs aren't worth it.

Anyone remember new Coke? I'm sure the people at Coke did a ton of taste testing before releasing that, and new Coke probably scored objectively better. However, people flipped out when it was released and it wasn't long before they returned to the original classic formula.

People hate change. For example, consider the reaction to the recent change to a certain avian feat chain. People especially hate change when it involves an object of nostalgia or sentimentality. D&D was a cherished part of my childhood, and I will play the game that best evokes that feeling I felt as a kid.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Marthkus wrote:
The caster can also have fly up making trip worthless.

Obviously, but once again you can't be prepared for all contingencies at all times. If you assume casters have all their spells going for just one fight they are going to do well.

Also, I've been running a mythic campaign and found the mythic rules do a decent job at closing the gap between casters and martials. For example, casters, while they can get extra standard actions, can still only cast one spell per round outside of quickened spells. However, abilities like Fleet Charge and Fleet Warrior grant extra move actions making full round attacks easy to get.

For example a fighter with both Fleet Charge and Fleet Warrior can in 1 round:
Spend a swift action and a mythic point to move and get a free attack at any point along that movement.
Do a full around attack and get a free move before or after the attacks.
Spend another mythic point to get a another standard action that can be used to move, attack, or do whatever.

So for 2 mythic points you get 2 moves, a full round attack plus another single attack, and then another move or attack. Pretty nuts.
Even at no mythic points expended you still get a free move every round with Fleet Warrior as long as you full attack. Pretty good deal in my opinion.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Marthkus wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Marthkus wrote:
LazarX wrote:
My martials all pack bows. If your caster takes more than a 5 foot step up and casts, he's provoking during his move up unless he does nothing for that round but withdraw, which means my fighter has a move action free to draw his bow. Even my mid BAB folks have str adjusted composites if practical. And if your caster cowers behind cover, than he does not have line of effect to cast.

You can ready a standard action. You may move like 5-15ft with the step-up chain. The caster can walk 30ft.

SO. Your fighter would have to pull out a bow and ready one standard attack trained on the caster to perform your tactic. And God forbid the GM require you to make a spellcraft or perception check to tell that they are casting.

If the caster does ANYTHING, but state a double move withdrawal in his turn, he provokes if he moves more than 5 feet. If he does the proper withdrawl, he's DONE for that turn.

Caster moves 30ft away from fighter

Fighter gets his AoO

Caster takes damage

Caster finishes move action

Caster cast a spell as a standard action with fighter no-where near her.

I've seen this strategy go disastrously wrong, and there is a good amount of risk involved. Sometimes the caster takes way more damage than expected due to a crit or is disabled due to some special attack.

Or the fighter just trips the caster instead for the AoO. Pretty easy to do against wizard/sorc types. Now the caster is stuck casting from a prone position in the same place where he started.

Now of course the caster can have protective spells up, but you can't be prepared for all contingencies at all times.

Andoran

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Mmm...delicious Crane Wings

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jacob Saltband wrote:

You have a low cha person and a high cha person, both have the same diplomacy 'score' and they both rolled the same diplomacy roll. How does the person they are trying influence decide between them?

If your low wis character takes ranks in sense motive does it help him/her with common sense issues?

People don't have their ability modifiers tattooed on their foreheads. Two equal diplomacy rolls means the two people are equally persuasive and/or likeable. Based on this one observation an observer would not be able to distinguish which speaker is more naturally charismatic. Deciding between them would be a tough call for the listener. If you needed a mechanical rule I suppose you could do it like initiative and compare modifiers which of course accounts for ability modifier along with their skill ranks.

Taking sense motive ranks only helps with the specific abilities listed in the skill. The common sense issue is a tricky one. Once in a while if a PC is about to do something really dumb I might give them an ability roll to provide some extra info or a warning, but let them make the decision for themselves.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Wait, Quicken Spells doesn't have any pre-reqs and clearly states that you can cast spells in a fraction of the normal time.

So, clearly, my fighter can take this feat and is automatically granted the ability to cast spells. At a minimum of 4th level spells too, or this feat wouldn't make any sense. If anyone asks where it came from I'll just say I had vestigial 7th level wizard skills. Wow, and people say fighters are underpowered. Lol, noobs.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

By RAW there is nothing stopping mithril celestial armor.

However, it would never see the light of day at my table. I don't allow players to cherry pick custom items in general though.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Martin Kauffman 530 wrote:
To each his or her own opinion. But I have found that this mitigates against excessive min-maxing, while at the same time aids role playing. And, I have recieved no complaints from my players.

This really doesn't do anything to prevent min-maxing or optimizing. What is does change is what particular stat array is optimal given the additional penalties you gave low stats. Now pure optimizers will stick to 10 as a "dump-stat".

With this houserule, only someone who is genuinely interested in roleplaying a low stat will chose to have one, and they are being penalized both mechanically and in their gameplay options for doing so. This seems cross purpose to me, as I prefer to reward players who like to go above and beyond in a roleplaying sense.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Bodhizen wrote:
Pages 14 through 16 might be of interest to you.

That guide is great. Thanks for the link.

Hmm...good point that Nietzsche may be incompatible with Pathfinder alignment. There was something about that quote that evokes a ruthless individuality though that I found appealing.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So, I'm considering bringing in an Antipaladin into my game as a villian. However, I'm trying to make one that is less of raving psychopath and more philosophical regards to their alignment of Chaotic Evil. Below, I've cut and paste a quote from Nietzsche's The Antichrist that I am considering modeling him after. Do you think that this philosophy is consistent with the Pathfinder definition of CE?

"What is good?—Whatever augments the feeling of power, the will to power, power itself, in man.
What is evil?—Whatever springs from weakness.
What is happiness?—The feeling that power increases—that resistance is overcome.
Not contentment, but more power; not peace at any price, but war; not virtue, but efficiency (virtue in the Renaissance sense, virtu, virtue free of moral acid).
The weak and the botched shall perish: first principle of our charity. And one should help them to it."

Andoran

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jacob Saltband wrote:


how is it a hindrance for a fighter who dump int and cha to 7 if he never has to make a roll, letting the int and cha based build make those rolls?

The lack of ability to make those checks *is* the hindrance. In non-combat situations the fighter that has no skills will be a sandbag to the group. Plus, that fighter might need to speak for him/herself once in a while or make some other sort of check, and they will most likely fail in dramatic fashion.

All the fighter gets from dumping int to 7 is enough points to raise their strength from a 17 to a 18 or maybe bump their dex/con up a couple of points. One or one-half modifier point is not that big of a deal in the long run, so why invent new ways to punish a player for having the audacity to optimize?

Edit: I also think a lot of the perceived problem is due to GMing style. For example, in PFS I always try to give my characters semi-decent skills as I know they will need to make checks for their faction missions, and you can't always depend on your group mates. However, if a GM allows the group's skill monkey to make all the checks and never involves the other players I can see how that how dumping could be perceived as a non-hindrance. The same could be said for a game that revolves around combat too where skills aren't needed as much.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ilja wrote:
The_Hanged_Man wrote:

Dropping your Alchemist's strength from 10 to 9 dropped the medium weight load threshold by a whopping 3 pounds. In real world terms that is a barely noticeable difference, and a 9 score is no more remarkable than a 11. I suggest you take your own advice to avoid hyperbole to lend credence to your arguments.

Hardly anyone considers a 13 score to be supremely good, but then a 7 is a hopeless cripple. I just don't follow the logic there.

Not that I think either 9 or 7 is a huge crippling disability, but to be fair, if we assume the populace is built on either 3d6 rolls or the basic NPC array, the human average is 10.83 (10.5 rolled average +.33 avg from stat bonus). So a 9 is 1.83 from the average while an 11 is just 0.17 from the average. A 9 is as far from the average as a 12.66 is.

And if we look at adjustments, the penalty from having a 9 is twice as large as that of having an 11.

So yeah, a 9 is as far off average as 12.66 is. A 7 is as far off average as a 14.66.

It might seem nitpicky but I felt since the difference ends up affecting the adjustments involved, it's worth noting.

I understand the math. An average ability score is stated to be 10 in the Core Rulebook, so that is what I used even though the various methods used to generate them deviate from that.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
born_of_fire wrote:
Or better yet, avoid hyperbolic statements to lend credence to your arguments. Words like always and never can paint you into uncomfortable corners :)

Dropping your Alchemist's strength from 10 to 9 dropped the medium weight load threshold by a whopping 3 pounds. In real world terms that is a barely noticeable difference, and a 9 score is no more remarkable than a 11. I suggest you take your own advice to avoid hyperbole to lend credence to your arguments.

Hardly anyone considers a 13 score to be supremely good, but then a 7 is a hopeless cripple. I just don't follow the logic there.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
born_of_fire wrote:


I realize I am new to this board and don't have a reputation or garner much cachet around here but it's a bald-faced lie to claim that no one ever role plays their low Strength the way that Remy is suggesting people need to roleplay their low Int score.

Your examples have nothing to do with roleplaying. You are just compensating for the mechanical penalties of dumping strength, similar to the way someone with with low int would need to compensate for having terrible skills.

Also, calling someone a liar is not very nice.

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