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Is there going to be a Character Cards product for the Chimera Mystery? Or at the very least a web enhancement we can use to create handouts for characters?

The adventure has some great character art and a really robust cast of characters. Given the fact that PCs will be interacting with those NPCs repeatedly, I would love to have something that the players can use as a visual anchor.

It's great that the Roll20 Product has handouts for many NPCs! I'm hoping for something similar for in-person games. Of course, this assumes in-person games are going to pick up again at some point.


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The rules for a Solarian's Weapon Crystal state that the crystal is discharged if the mote is ever "deactivated."

The Solarian's rules do not address when or how motes are "deactivated," however. The weapons and armor created from the mote can be "dismissed," but it's apparent from the text the mote does not cease to be in such instances. It also seems unusual that the Solarian would then have to pick up the crystal and reinsert it after every fight if they wanted it at the ready.

Are deactivated and dismissed supposed to be the same? Or are there potential rare effects which would deactivate the mote?


So when Starfinder had been announced but before it came out, I misread a spoiler/summary about the timeline of the game. I thought that the Drift Drive was almost a "brand new" device in the hands of Pact Worlds and - as such - there was a kind of a land rush on to find new worlds with the Drift Drive. I found this to be a compelling basis for the story, and fitting in with trying to find information to fill in the Gap.

That isn't the official timeline, of course. But I've been pushing that kind of setting back and forth in my head, and I was thinking about this article from The Alexandrian.

http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/36890/roleplaying-games/random-gm-tip-r ewind-your-timeline-how-to-use-published-sourcebooks

I like the idea of the Drift having opened up only three years prior, and now the Pact Worlds have gotten a whole lot smaller. Absalom Station's beacon is bringing all sorts of crazy things in from the far reaches of space. There's a huge number of worlds to explore (including many of the snippets on worlds in published materials).

Alternatively, you could wind back individual locations in the Drift being discovered, and have the players be part of a new wave of explorers.

You'd have to tweak a few things, to be sure. Perhaps Vesk are showing up even though the Veskarium hasn't invaded. The Shirren may be unwitting harbingers of the Swarm. But it would create an atmosphere of exploration and "go forth" nature that would make a really interesting basis for a campaign.


Combat in Original D&D. And that's not a bad thing at all.

Bear with me for a moment. We've got a group of experienced players who are tucking into Starfinder to see how it works. We've all played a variety of RPG's but recently came-off a long-term Pathfinder game. It only took a couple of combats for the party to realize that while the rules were similar, the paradigms were different.

After blasting their way through infested space-ships and asteroids, one of my players put down his dice, looked up, and said "this is just like OD&D." And it clicked for us.

The mechanics are, of course, quite different. But the feel of combat, the heavy-hitting enemies, the premium on getting good armor so you can't get hit, the importance of planning and positioning, the reliance on the right equipment, and the increased lethality of it all invokes the same feelings from tense fights in OD&D.

My group so far approves of the difference. We love Pathfinder, and Starfinder is fast gaining approval. It's nice to see that Starfinder combat plays differently than Pathfinder. It'll be fun to see how characters evolve as they gain levels.


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My party has turned on Astral Extractions hard. The party is full of hard-luck Akitonians who sympathized with the Hardscrabble Collective and spat bitter hate for a corporation who assassinated Kreel. They also chose to keep these sympathies quiet for the time being, which means in the public eye they are a neutral group which is showing restraint on behalf of the Starfinders. So into Ambassador Nor's service they go.

But in the meantime, they want to start moving against Astral Extractions. The attempt on their life as they travel to the Drift Rock will likely increase this motive. At the end of the last session the party indicated they wanted to start gathering information on Astral Extractions, including board members, and figure out a long-term plan to punish the company.

I'm all about this kind of thing; I want my PCs to engage with the game world on their terms and having a Corp villain fits in well with the theme of the game. The rivalry with Astral Extractions can be a nice side piece to the rest of the plot.

That being said, anyone have any ideas or suggestions how to work this into AP? I'm not quite sure where to begin.


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Gnomatsu has made some amazing handouts for Temple of the Twelve, and Yazza posted a great video of Nashes' Video logs. I really appreciate this work!

Does anyone else have a lead on or suggestions for making handouts for the Dead Suns AP? My group really engages with them; for those who have run the AP already, is there anything in particular that's better in print than just read aloud?


My party is about to encounter Nhur Athemon; they're excited for what they believe to be the "main boss" fight of the Spire. I've been telegraphing his presence a lot with Crowned Skull encounters, including an assault on the PC's home in Fort Inevitable. As I expect the PCs to survive, I've begun prepping Level 15.

Two questions come: 1) Has anyone dealt with the revelation that Nhur Athemon was in fact not the true master of the Spire? Any tips for the same?

2) How would you present the Inevitable rescued from Level 10 on Level 15? The book indicates he is in the first room the PCs enter. Since they have a tentative alliance with the Inevitable, it seems likely that this would push them into the full alliance for the level. But I'm not sure how to present such a creature's notion of "Gratitude."

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.


Fair warning, this discussion will contain some spoilers. I'll it hide it where possible, but read at your own peril.

I want to run a Pathfinder version of Expedition to Ravenloft. It remains one of my favorite 3.5 modules (up there with Red Hand of Doom) and I have a new party of experienced players who would love to explore it.The kicker is this: I'd like to build up to it . Make it more of an adventure path than simply a hook and then the adventure. One of the great things about Expedition to Ravenloft is that it has a hints at a greater evil plan. I'd like the lead-in to really build up that evil plan so that battle with Strahd is more compelling.

Since my time to prepare is relatively limited, and since there's a wealth of great adventures available, I thought I'd turn to the community and see what ideas there were. I have several modules already that I'd be glad to use, and I'd love to hear what suggestions there are. Here are my thoughts:

Carrion Hill:

Adventure Discussion:
The lurking evil monster fits in with the ancient evil of Strahd. I could see the cultists in this adventure being manipulated by Strahd as part of his grander schemes of empire - to fit this, include notes from Master of Ravenloft to the villains of the adventure encouraging them to commit great evil.

Feast of Ravenmoor:

Adventure Discussion:
Ravenmoor to Ravenloft. Seems fitting, no? Here, I'd tweak it so that the corrupted worship has a more vampiric feel. This would be easy with the prevalence of ticks, mosquitos, and stirges. The villagers would have been led astray by the corruption of Strahd, rather than the deception of an evil deity.

Skinsaw Murders:

Adventure Discussion:
Not a module per-se, but a classic. Lead in with a modified sandpoint adventure, and spring the Foxglove horrors on the party when they least expect it. Instead of the runes feeding a Runelord, it's part of Strahd's evil plan to feed his growing undead empire.

What other modules do you suggest? What modifications do you think would work?


I've been delayed, but I finally managed to get a copy of Carrion Hill. An avid Lovecraft scholar and CoC player, I was very pleased with the atmosphere and nature of the adventure, as well as the buried chamber that echoed of many Lovecraftian locales. (Sermon Bishop's farm, anyone?)

Has anyone had a chance to run it yet? I like the open-ended way the PCs can encounter the Shogo - I mean - Chaos Beast, but the adventure seems best if they run into it at the Asylum. Is this the case? Is there a subtle way to guide your PCs there last? Any thoughts on creating the proper atmosphere?


Just a quick question that's arisen as I've been prepping stat blocks.

As I've read the rules in creating NPCs, you assign an NPC with monster HD or NPC Class (commoner, etc.) the average die roll HP for every hit die.

Logically, I then wondered what would happen with an NPC who had a Character Class level (Fighter, etc.). The chapter on NPCs didn't appear to address it directly, and so after a great deal of looking I settled on the rule from the first few pages of the book, which states that the first level of a class grants the maximum possible hit die.

But as I've been reading the adventures involving NPCS with character class levels, it appears they only recieve average HP on their first hit die. Carrion Hill has several examples of this.

Am I missing a rule in the NPC Section or a common tenet of design? I'd like my home-brews to be in-step with the rules, but I'm not sure why a PC 1st level fighter has 10 HP, but an NPC would only have 6.

Thank you!


I'm going to begin playtesting the Truenamer with PFRPG as part of a mini-AP I am running. It's going to replace the arcane caster classes available to PCs (the AP focuses on the unavailablity and return of Arcane Magic).

As I've read through everything, I think that aside from bringing the HD/BAB/Saving Throw progressions up to standards, the class is playable as written. The reason is because of the increased feat progression. This allows the Truenamer to not only boost their Truenaming skill at a better rate, but also grab Incantation feats.

Is anyone out there testing out alternate class features? Perhaps a few things that will add some "paths" to Truenamers?

How about Truespeech itself? Again, it seems to be a reasonable feat progression in light of the final PFRPG. Considering it was a bit underpowered in 3.5, it strikes me that a bit of boosting may be in order.


Since 3.0 I have allowed my PC's to detect a magical invisibility with Detect Magic. Under the rules as written, after three rounds of concentrating, the PC can detect the square containing the invisible creature. Often, they direct their allies to the square. Any attacks still have a 50% miss chance.

This isn't nearly as effective as See Invisibility or the like, and so it isn't used in combat much. Instead it's used to detect clever thieves and the like.

Does this mesh with the Pathfinder rules? I have yet to see anything that says it wouldn't.


My party recently started up the Hall of Harsh Reflections after absolutely trouncing the Lizardmen of the Mist Marsh. I'm looking forward to it as a chance to give them a new kind of challenge, as the party really didn't find any danger in the numbers of the Lizardmen.

The problem is this: There's no one in the party a Doppleganger can easily replace. We have four PCs: A Paladin tank who relies on her Summoned Mount and Lay On Hands (which a DG can't duplicate); a Half-Orc Cleric of St. Cuthbert who is a constant healer and caster; a Sorceress with an Infernal Bloodline (shown through Heritage Feats) who also casts constantly and uses unique feat-based abilities, and a Halfling Warlock/Rogue who is constantly Spider-Climbing walls and who hasn't touch a weapon in ages.

So how do I have a Doppleganger infilitrate them? I trust any one of my players to take on the roll, but I need to do it RAW. I want there to be a few clues, so if my players are paying attention they can root out the mole. Do I turn the infiltrator into a caster of sorts?

Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially if you've run the adventure with or without the infiltrator.


So we've just finished playing the introductory adventure to the Scales of War. Our group is comprised mostly of veterans but is our first foray into 4.0. Our characters were crafted with our usual care, with engaging back-stories built around the Elsir Vale (many of us have played Red Hand of Doom). Despite our die-hard 3.5 loyalty, we had a lot of fun playing our characters and getting into 4.0. The ruleset was palatable and my Dwarven Druid made my day.

The problem: The adventure was rather - lacking. This is not our DM's fault (he's quite good). Rather, the dungeon felt forced, the villain was stale, and the story hackneyed. The encounters were not balanced and we missed a lot of things because of failed skill checks. We ended up blowing up most of the dungeon with alchemical items because we had been beaten back by the various undead.

I never expected the adventure path to be as good as Paizo's, but we were all a bit disappointed with the way it played out. The DM has informed us that this adventure was a test-run, and generally independent from the rest of the campaign. We're debating now if we want to keep going with the path or have our DM whip something else up.

For those of you who have played the later adventures: Are they worth our time? Have others disliked the initial adventure and liked the later ones? Did we have an abberrant experience and the adventures are otherwise solid?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. And please - no spoilers.


I have a bit of a problem with my party in J1, Entombed With The Pharoahs. They've taken a course of action that has wildly warped the general plan of the adventure and I'd like some advice on how to make sure they still have fun with it.

As background: I've modified it to be set in the Forgotten Realms; my players are agents of the Church of Kelemvor who were sent to Mulhorand (the logical setting) to investigate recently unearthed ancient tombs. Her Majestrix's Expedition became a group of Thayan Wizards out to exploit ancient magics; my party hates the Thayans for a number of reasons (mostly earlier run ins and a party member being from Rashemen).

The party met with Mithral Scarab, and all started off well. They then reached the auction, refused to even talk to "Nefertet," and left before they could interact properly with the Thayans. Seeking out the Black Reliquary before the museum, they bypassed the false mask entirely. Some they bluffed their way into a private tour of the Crook Bearer's collection (through brilliant role-playing and no small amount of luck) and, when they saw the mask, grabbed it and ran. The Scout in the party easily outran the guards and the party escaped out of the city and into the night.

So, lacking much of the background that makes the adventure so engaging, barely being conscious of the four marks of the pharoahs, and having ruined some excellent roleplaying moments, the party ventures to the Pyramid. SHortly thereafter, they realize the Thayans (who have no reason to doubt the fake mask) are also travelling in that direction. Worried that the Thayans are up to no good, they decide to intercept and ambush them (the Thayans, having never encountered the party at the auction or the museum, have no idea who they are).

In a brilliantly executed morning raid, the party wipes the Thayan Expedition out to a man without ever speaking to them. Any hope of rivalry or brinkmanship is gone.

We pick up the party preparing to enter the pyramid in the next session. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get some crucial information about the pyramid to them? What about recreating the sense of urgency, rivalry, and excitement otherwise created by having a rival party?

I don't want to punish my players for being tactically minded, scoundrels in both action and role-playing, and generally taking control of the adventure. But I'd hate for the PC's to miss out on the brilliant history behind this pyramid, but at the rate they're going most of what they'll encounter will either be mere curiousities or will turn them into a mummy.


In my campaign I play with a variant "On Death's Door Rule" in which you are staggered from 0 hp to a negative of your Constitution modifier and die when you reach negative hitpoints equal to your Constitution score (-10 minimum) (e.g. a Fighter with a 15 Constitution is staggered from 0 to -2, dies at -15). The normal rules for staggered or unconscious apply. This has come in to play many times and is, frankly, responsible for several characters being alive when they normally wouldn't be. My players love it.

It's come up multiple times in recent sessions that a character in melee is staggered without being knocked unconcsious. They choose to fall prone instead of remain standing in hopes the villain doesn't pursue them but goes after a more tempting target. Alternatively, they're unconscious but healed enough to be brought back to staggered condition.

Often times my players want to play possum so that they don't attract attention, giving them time to either quaff a potion, avoid injury, or launch a sneak attack.

My question is this: What's a good way to represent this in the rules? I've been using a Bluff check opposed by a Spot or Sense Motive roll - this works as a quick resolution but favors Rogues and often hinders NPCs with low social interaction scores who are otherwise incredibly cagy combatants.

What's a good way to incorporate playing possum into the rules? What skills do you think would represent it? What are appropriate modifiers? How can I turn this against the players?

Suggestions are much appreciated.


I was asked in This Thread to explain in greater detail a campaign I put together that was meant to be a low-powered campaign without the eradication of magic. This is what I plan to do here (forgive the delay, Real Life got in the way of all my gaming).

Purpose: The idea behind the campaign came from reading and watching a variety of fantasy stories where the heroes were not plunged into worlds where magic wasn't omnipresent, where monsters were horrific and lurked in the wilderness, and where exceptional people were held in high regard by the populace. I'm still playing through the Age of Worms and, while I love it, it's highly magical nature diminishes a bit of wonder from the adventurer's life.

What The World Is Not: This is not meant to be a world where there is no magic, where heroic deeds did not occur, and where there are no monsters. This is not meant to be a Cthulhu-esque world (as much as I love my Lovecraft) where the supernatural devours the players.

Theme: I selected a quasi-Celtic theme for my world, borrowing where needed from Norse, German, and French tradition. Fog features heavily in the weather patterns, and much of the territory is stuck on the tail end of a "mini-Ice Age."

Assumptions: Instead of giving you all my hard-and-fast rules, which are scattered throughout my notes, I'll give you the Ten Assumptions I wrote down at the onset. These have been modified a bit since the beginning, but they remain true to their origin. I should also note I shared these with the players at the beginning, so they understood where I was coming from and played along accordingly.

Spoiler:
Assumption 1: Magic is rare, but a crucial part of the world. The common person knows of it, but many are still afraid of it. Wizards and clerics do not lurk in every town; indeed, they are quite rare. Magic, when found, has an air of mystery. There are witch burnings.

This is problematic, because 3.X assumes some magical powers and items. These I strictly limited the distribution of, and each magical item was found on a quest or by some rare event. It isn't just weapons and armor - wonderous items as well. Nearly every magic item found had a unique name, which adds to its lore and history.

Enchanced masterwork items proved to be a good filler. Instead of just adding +1 to attack rolls, masterwork items made by master smiths (think Hattori Hanzo) could grant up to +3 to attack rolls, could be keen, wounding, or otherwise remarkable without being magical. These legendary weapons were also prized possessions. I owe Green Ronin thanks for these ideas.

What I discovered was that the players were not at so great a disadvantage, because their opponents were not armed to teeth as well.

Assumption 2: The world is dangerous and not a magical mirror of the modern world. People live in towns and castles because they are safe. The wilderness is dangerous.

This speaks for itself, but walled cities and towns are common. Adventurers, such as the PCs, are very rare. Most who go into the woods for adventure do not come back. Travel along roads is also dangerous, but not as much as other locations.

Assumption 3: Most people the PC's meet are between levels 1-3. Of these people, they are usually NPC classes. The best guardsman in the town may be a Level 2 Fighter. The Chief of Police is probably a Level 3 Fighter. The Mayor is a Level 3 Noble. They are skilled and otherwise established persons who form the baseline for talent.

Assumption 4: There are exceptional people in the world, who are levels 4-8. Also usually NPC Classes, but not always. The great fencer of Pellin is a Level 6 fighter. The High King's wizardly advisor is a level 7 Wizard. These people represent the apex of skill and power, and are otherwise so rare that their presence represents change in the world.

Assumption 5: Most of the common enemies in this world also fall under this distribution: Orcs, goblins, Kenku, etc are the primary foes. Again, they lurk in the wilderness, or under the cities, or in far off kingdoms. They are just as dangerous, but do not possess any greater power than the ordinary folk of this world.

Assumption 6: Each race is unique and interesting in their own right. Elves are the forest dwellers of deep contemplation. Dwarves are great craftsmen of deep halls. Gnomes are trickers who live in the hills. Orcs are ferocious hunters who hate all otehrs. This is a hearkening back to their original stereotypes, but it also helps seperate them. The lack of a cosmopolitan feel, and a cosmopolitan city, makes different races and their interactions more important.

Assumption 7: The PCs are going to be extraordinary. This is the big one. I didn't want to limit my PCs in their level caps, or take away magical class abilities, or otherwise tweak the PHB classes to the point where they only had 'realistic' abilities. I wanted my players to be heroes.

The PCs have been called to a great, world-changing quest. They start off as all the others -first level. And through adversity, and through adventuring, they gain power, find treasure, and will grow.

I did slow advancement a bit, to help preserve the notion of expanding beyond their boundaries at a more reasonable pace.

The big plus of this is it means you can play the rules from the PHB as written. When the wizard gets fireball for the first time, it means something truly dramatic in the world. When the fighter can wield the greatsword against multiple-foes, it shows off their skill. This is as much roleplaying as anything else, but it was very well recieved.

Assumption 8: Dark and great powers lurk in the depths and in the heavens, and as the PCs go about their quest they will wake these powers.

This is Tolkein's "Balrog" solution. There are things capable of challenging high-level players, and the reason they haven't destroyed the world is two-fold: 1) They are far and few between; and 2) They tend to be dormant.

This was a great way to help the players stand out as the greatest heroes of the world as they went to combat their final villain. While the town guard could band together to kill an Ogre, the entire army was powerless against the Red Dragon from the mountains, and needed the PCs to come in and aid them.

This also lets the game scale properly, so the party isn't fighting wave after wave of orcs.

Assumption 9: Combat is lethal. Healing is painful. People die in combat, and clerics aren't there to bail them out. The PC cleric quickly learns that their talents are in incredibly high demand and they will be taxed to the limit.

I also ruled that the healing skill on a DC 15 check heal 1d4 points of damage, on a DC 20 check heal 2d4 points of damage, and on a DC 25 check heal 3d4 points of damage, once per day per person. Thus a truly skilled doctor can nurse wounded patients back from the brink, but PCs who are badly wounded in one fight can't simply bandage themselves up for the next three rounds.

The end result: The PC Cleric was judicious about healing, because there weren't potions waiting around every corner, the PC's chose their battles more carefully, put a higher premium on tactics and armor, and generally considered the combats more closely. I felt this made for a much better game.

Assumption 10: It is still Dungeons and Dragons. Players will do crazy things, and succeed. Comedic moments will come from role-playing mis-steps. The rogue will try and rob the King, and there will be consequences. I didn't want to adhere too strictly to the notion of a somber and dark world at the expense of fun. Besides, my players learned quickly that being too goofy got them killed.

Sources: My sources were numerous and varied, but for ideas I looked to Tolkein, Chrichton (especially Eaters of the Dead), Gaiman, White, Tennyson, Mallory, Goodkind, and other staples of the genre. Recommended movies include The 13th Warrior, Excalibur, The Village, and Braveheart, as all four go for the theme I was looking for. I do not comment on the overall quality of any of them.

And there you have it. I welcome any constructive comments, as it remains a work in progress, and I would be glad to answer any questions. I've purposefully avoided going into certain details (government, economy, etc.) but I'd be happy to talk about them as well.


I've been on record in other threads as complaining about the inconsistencies regarding armor. The armor chart really hasn't been revamped since 3.0; even then it was a holdover from second edition.

In second edition, the idea was that certain mundane equipment was clearly superior to others; acquisition of this superior equipment was very important. In 3.X, this notion was generally abandoned. Rather, different equipment had different features, but one was equal to another. Weapons are a great example: Within each category (Simple, Light, One-Handed, Two-Handed) each weapon is ostensibly comparable. This has let the weapon chart encompass a wide variety of options and spared us the hundreds of pages of statistics for each minor variation on a medieval weapon that appeared in 2nd Ed. books.

This transfer hasn't really made it to armor. Instead the armor chart remains locked in creating historical variations (most of which have a European feel) between different suits of armor and the only reason characters don't run to the best of each category is the cost.

I'd really like to propose simplifying armor to three types: Light, Medium, and Heavy. Light armor would have no dex penalty but would provide small ac, heavy armor would have skill and dex penalties, but would provide great ac, etc. etc. Knowing that such suggestions are probably not welcome at this point, let me propose this simple rework of the armor chart:

The notion is to make the chart as consistent as the rest of the game's rules:

AC Bonus is the base number, the max dex is equal to 10-AC bonus, and the skill check penalty is equal to the AC bonus -1. Arcane spell failure is equal to the AC bonus x5%. Light armor's skill check penalty is equal 1/2 it's AC Bonus (rounded down), and only heavy armor has a speed penalty.

Leather AC: +1, Max Dex 9, Skill Check Penalty -0
Studded Leather AC: +2, Max Dex 8, Skill Check Penalty -1
Chain Shirt AC: +3, Max Dex 7, Skill Check Penalty -1

Scale Male AC: +4, Max Dex 6, Skill Check Penalty -3
Chain Mail AC: +5, Max Dex 5, Skill Check Penalty -4
Breast Plate AC: +6, Max Dex 4, Skill Check Penalty -5

Banded Mail AC: +7, Max Dex 3, Skill Check Penalty -6
Field Plate AC: +8, Max Dex 2, Skill Check Penalty -7
Full Plate AC: +9, Max Dex 1, Skill Check Penalty -8

Here are the virtues of this system as I see it:

- It's consistent, and no armor is clearly inferior to other choices (hence why I removed Hide Armor).

- It allows characters to have a great deal more customization when it comes to character designs. They weigh the benefits of increased ac against skill penalties.

- It rewards high dexerity bonuses, by letting dextrous characters shed more and more armor to keep their skill penalties down, whether they're Rogue, Fighter or Barbarian.

- It makes Medium Armor relevant again, as now heavy hitters have to weigh slower movement and higher AC against hgiher movement and a better skill-check penalty. It makes a barbarian wearing medium armor worthwhile, rather than seeking out the nearest mithral mine as soon as possible. We won't see rogues running around in medium armor unless they want to give up their class abilities that require light or no armor.

- Backwards compatibility is not a huge issue, since most armors have a corresponding option (and when was the last time you saw an NPC wearing splint mail?).

- While a chain shirt is immediately better than studded leather, this is small enough that a significant cost difference could make a difference for low-level characters (after low levels, the distinction for disappears dramatically for dextrous characters).

I would love to hear thoughts on this matter.


It has been our experience since 3.0 that that the armor chart for the game isn't terribly effective. The biggest flaw visible is medium armor: No player wears medium armor unless it their class limits them to medium armor; even then they only wear breastplate.

Here's the reasoning: All classes except barbarian and druid start being able to wear either 1) no armor or light armor (or have abilities that only function with light armor and so wouldn't move up) OR 2) heavy armor. Druidic characters go straight for Ironwood Armor at the first opportunity.

Further, medium armor has terrible penalties associated with it: You lose 10' of speed and you have a low dex bonus. Even with the max dex bonus available on medium armor, you still don't match the bonus you could get from wearing Full Plate. Heavy armor has the same speed penalty.

The skill check penalties are less, true. But if you're a tank, you don't really care how well you can use Acrobatics, and if you're a skillful character chances are you aren't wearing medium armor anyway.

Hide armor is the biggest problem: The only reason a person would wear Hide is because they couldn't cough up the extra 10 gold for Studded Leather.

From a purely realistic point of view, it may make sense. But in my experience for the last eight years, no one wears medium armor for very long.

If the speed penalty for medium armor were reduced, or the skill check penalties lessened, then there may be a good reason to turn back to medium armor. It may be wise to take Hide Armor off of the main chart and move it to a section with "primitive arms and armor." That way we can equip our cavemen logically, but not just pass over medium armor in character creation.


I play in two games where languages are very important, and a number of other settings (such as Forgotten Realms) with an intricate and lengthy listing of languages which all relate to each other. Many times in these games characters acquire old texts they need to translate (a bit of Cthulhu mythos always seems to work its way in).

Many other times, the party needs to communicate with a person or creature who does not share their language. This is a problem.

Currently the Linguistics skill only allows you to understand a foreign language if you are able to sit down and decipher it. This is great for extensive translations, but not helpful for first encounters and bartering in a strange land.

Sense motive is an OK stop-gap, but it only imparts basic ideas and concepts. It doesn't make sense to use that to try and impart messages through languages you don't speak; it makes more sense to use SM to read body language and guess at intentions. It also doesn't make sense to use SM to communicate with someone when a linguistics skill is waiting in the wings.

Accordingly I would like to see a set of rules for communicating in Pidgin languages. It is not meant to invalidate the rules for languages, rather it is meant to be a temporary solution for characters to learn languages.

I see a DC 15 for a basic message ("need food," "walk this way," "don't go in there"), DC 20 for a complex message ("Beware the black-robed man," "At noon you should use the gem"), and DC 25+ for a working conversation or cultural idioms. My group has also been working on modifying these DCs based on root languages (you can understand Pidgin Savage Elf more easily if you understand Elven, but if you don't know Draconic any language rooted in that will be more difficult to understand).

The new linguistics skill yields a fair number of polyglot characters, but this way you can encounter new languages and worlds without having to worry about who has the Tongues spell memorized.


During our playtesting, Acrobatics has gained prominence as a skill beyond what I believe it should be.

The reason for this is that Acrobatics gives players the functionality of three skills from 3.5: Balance, Tumble and Jump. The new skill system aside, this means that players are getting a lot more "bang for their buck" than the other reworked skills. This is enhanced by the fact that in adventure-heavy and combat-heavy games these are incredibly useful skills. Tumbling is crucial to moving in combat, jumping and balancing let you ignore terrain (albeit with AC penalites), and all three help navigate the treacherous dungeons clever DMs invent.

It's especially helpful for monks, barbarians and rangers, all of whom have so many skill points they don't need all those abilities rolled into one skill.It has been verging on a super-skill.

We've been playtesting a house rule that works well: take jump out of Acrobatics and combine it with Climb to create "Athletics" (apologies for the recycled name). Now, the quick and agile characters can still move and balance around, but can't just as easily launch into the air. Acrobatics remains a viable skill.

Athletics becomes the favorite of fighters and melee clerics who, with their heavy armor, never had a need to boost dex. Even with armor check penalties, they're rather mobile characters who don't have to choose between coming to a complete stop when presented with a wall and spending their precious skill points on something that solely lets you climb.

This also fits well with flavor, because agile or not you need muscles like treetrunks to jump with the gear that adventurers usually carry.


This thread is meant to be a consolidation of several existing threads about the nature of the bard as a generalist. I have already posted a version of the proposed rules below, and this is meant to be an improved version. I've been combing through the threads and I hope this helps capture the majority view on the subject.

Much of the opposition to my earlier ideas came from the way I had couched my argument. I wanted the bard to be the great generalist and dilettante. Many opposed this (including several of the powers-that- be); wanting the bard to retain its current artistic flavor. I will gladly let this remain. If I don't like the flavor, I can make it something else in my own games.

So, to be clear: This is NOT replacing bardic music, nor weakening bardic music, nor doing anything at all to the bardic music rules. This is meant to be an addition to the bard's current abilities.

But bards remain underpowered in their current incarnation. They haven't been subject to the same power creep that has hit the other classes (and who doesn't love a little power creep!). This proposal is meant to give the bards some extra "oomph" while playing, give them a few extra options instead of just singing during combat and roleplaying, and otherwise develop interesting characters. I've tried to tweak them to fit into the mystique of the bard.

Without further ado, the modified rules:

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Bardic Path: At 3rd level, the Bard must decide if they are going to pursue one of two paths. The first is Mystic Performer, the second is the Dilettante.

Mystic Performer: The Bard has committed himself to the study of music, magic, and the interaction between the two. This commitment has opened the Bard's mind and abilities to the vast possibilities of magical potential.

Wellspring of Music: The Bard gains additional daily uses of Bardic Music equal to his levels in bard divided by three (minimum of one).

Master Performer: The Bard adds a bonus to all Perform skills in which he has ranks equal to half his level, rounded down.

Magical Attunement: At 3rd level, and every three levels thereafter, the Bard may add one additional spell their spells known. The spell selected must be a spell level the bard is capable of casting. These spells may be taken from the Bard Spell List, the Cleric Spell List, the Druid Spell List, or the Wizard/Sorcerer Spell List. None of these spells may be Evocation spells.

For example, at 3rd level the Bard may select an additional 0-Level Spell or an additional 1st Level Spell to add to their spells known. At 9th level, the Bard may select an addition 0-Level, 1st-Level, 2nd-Level, or 3rd Level spell.

Piercing Music: At 6th level, the save DCs to resist effects of the Bard's Bardic Music ability increase by +1. At 12th level, this increases to +2. At 18th level, this increases to +3.

Dilettante: The Bard, in his broad studies of the world, has puzzled together some of the mysteries and skills that distinguish his fellow adventurers and can use them to his advantage. At the cost of studying music and magic, the Bard gains new skills and tricks.

At 3rd level, and every three levels thereafter, the Bard may choose from a list of class abilities. The appropriate rules are found under the entries in existing class descriptions. Unless otherwise indicated, the level for the class ability is the character's Bard level. Abilities, once taken, do not progress (e.g. taking Sneak Attack 1d6 does not allow the Bard to add more sneak attack damage as they gain levels). As the Bard gains levels additional class abilities become available; the Bard may select from any class ability available to them.

Unless otherwise stated, class abilities may not be selected more than once.

At 3rd level, the Bard may choose from the following class abilities - Rogue Talent: Fast Stealth; Rogue Talent: Ledge Walker; Rogue Talent: Rogue Crawl; One 1st level Cleric Domain Ability (Caster Level = Bard Level-2); One 1st Level Wizard School Ability (Caster Level = Bard Level-2); Sneak Attack +1d6.

At 6th Level, they may also choose from the following additional options - Trap Finding; Channel Energy 1/day (May take multiple times, power level equal to bard level -3); 2nd Lvl Cleric Domain (only if the Bard has access to the first level ability of the same domain); Manuever Training; Armor training +1; Wild Empathy.

At 9th Level they can also choose from the following options - Animal Bond (as a Ranger, for determining abilities, the class level is equal to the Bard's Level-4); Familiar (for determining abilities, the class level is equal to Bard Level-4).

At 12th Level they may also choose from the following option - 8th Level Wizard School (Only if the Bard has the 1st level option from the same school).

At 15th Level may also choose from the following options - Rogue Talent: Defensive Roll; Rogue Talent: Slippery Mind; Rogue Talent: Dispelling Attack; Rogue Talent: Skill Mastery; Tongue of the Sun and Moon.

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The following abilities were proposed for the Dilettante, but there was opposition to them as several felt they encroached on the unique realm of the other classes. Barbarian rage 1/day; Ranger Favored Enemy (May take multiple times, does not stack); Smite Evil 1/day. I would appreciate comments on whether they belong on the list at some point.
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I welcome any comments, criticisms, or ideas for improvement. These rules could certainly stand some tweaking and additional playtesting (I've run them through the gauntlet quickly). Do me a favor though: If you have a criticism, be specific and tell me what needs to be pulled, improved, or changed. The same goes for support. I do love unadulterated praise, but if you like something be specific enough to let me know what the positive elements of the proposed rules are.


I'd like to see the bard move from the wandering minstrel back to the dilettante adventurer. In our games, 3.5 and PRPG, bards were either all artsy types or adventurers for whom the music was a secondary hindrance, they wanted a few spells to back up their martial. Dungeonscape's Factotum had a great feel for this type of character, though I never cared much for the rule-set involved.

Bardic music, as it stands now, is weak. The Bard's music might be helpful, but compared to the spells that a cleric or wizard gets at that level it is downright pathetic. Most of those musical abilities simply duplicate spells anyway. The "Buff" abilities of a bard aren't very useful either, as any of the other spell-casters can buff the party, and still throw out plenty of fire/holy energy/animal allies afterwards.

In addition to bardic music, I'd recommend giving the bard the chance to pick up other classes' abilities. This would let the bard be that jack of all trades. Sure, the existing classes could still do it better, but if the rogue was gone or the wizard disabled, the bard could fill in for a few rounds. It also makes the bard welcome in a party; the current rules always seem to end with bards told to stay in the back and sing until the fight is over. The basic language, as I see it, would look something like this.

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Dilettante: At 3rd level, and every three levels thereafter, the bard can choose from the following list of class abilities. The rules for the appropriate abilities may be found under other class descriptions. Unless otherwise indicated, the level for the class ability is the character's Bard level. Abilities, once taken, do not progress (e.g. taking Sneak Attack 1d6 does not allow the Bard to add more sneak attack damage as they gain levels). Unless otherwise stated, class abilities may not be selected more than once.

The available class abilities are: Sneak attack (1d6); Rogue Talent: Fast Stealth; Rogue Talent: Ledge Walker; Rogue Talent: Rogue Crawl; 1st level Cleric Domain Ability (Caster Level = Bard Level-2); 1st Level Wizard School Ability (Caster Level = Bard Level-2); Barbarian rage 1/day.

At 6th Level, they may also choose from the following additional options - Trap Finding; Channel Energy 1/day (May take multiple times, power level equal to bard level -5); Ranger Favored Enemy (May take multiple times, does not stack), 2nd Lvl Cleric Domain (only if the Bard has access to the first level ability of the same domain); Manuever Training; Armor training +1.

At 9th Level they can also choose from the following options - Animal Bond; Familiar (for determining abilities, the Bard's level is equal to Bard Level-8).

At 12th Level they may also choose from the following option - 8th Level Wizard School (Only if the Bard has the 1st level option from the same school).

At 15th Level may also choose from the following options -Rogue Talent: Defensive Roll; Rogue Talent: SLippery Mind; Rogue Talent: Dispelling Attack.
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Obviously, the Bard can pick for later levels from any of the earlier level lists.

The reason I like this approach is twofold: It helps each bard to be unique (frankly, up until this point many bards were the same build with little variation); and it mirrors the options and abilities many of the other classes get. It does not allow the bard to horde any one party role; no matter how they try they won't be able to fill permanently in for the rogue, the cleric or the fighter. But when the situation calls for finesse, faith or strength, the Bard may be just what the party needs.