Flanking is different than aiding another. It's about positioning, not about using an action to aid an attack.
You want to add 2 to your friend's melee attack in Starfinder? Because flanking is how you add 2 to a friend's melee attack in Starfinder.
Bonus stacking isn't nearly what it was in older d20 editions.
I follow what you're saying. Here's where I am coming from: Flanking's been part of the d20 rule set since it was invented with D&D 3.0. Aid Another has been part of the same rule set up until Starfinder.
I'm willing to agree that there's a design reason why aiding another using a melee weapon isn't a part of the Starfinder game. That design reason isn't spelled out. I don't see a clear reason why Harrying Fire exists, but a melee equivalent doesn't.
Saying "Flanking is meant to replace aid another" doesn't make sense from a historical perspective, because both have existed along side each other until Starfinder. Saying "Starfinder got rid of melee aid another because it redid the math so that flanking subsumed the aid another action" makes sense, but I don't see a clear design reason for it. Put another way: Can you point me to something that says "we rolled flanking and melee aid another into just flanking?"
Hope your Sharu battle went well. I have a party of 5 and the vesk soldier went down hard. Sharu almost dropped the android mechanic the round before. Some solid tactics and a well timed max damage magic missile barrage took down Sharu to exactly 0 after 3-4 heavy damage rounds after a long multi-combat in-game day. Overally, folks seemed appropriately threatened. If it weren't for that huge magic missile, Sharu probably KOs at least one more PC with the vesk out of the way.
Sharu is a beast, to be sure, though not as bad as the Garaggakal. She killed two of my players with critical hits from her sword. They were wounded from the previous battles and - while they had done some healing - she did enough damage to kill one outright and the other died from the bleed condition.
Hope your Sharu battle went well. I have a party of 5 and the vesk soldier went down hard. Sharu almost dropped the android mechanic the round before. Some solid tactics and a well timed max damage magic missile barrage took down Sharu to exactly 0 after 3-4 heavy damage rounds after a long multi-combat in-game day. Overally, folks seemed appropriately threatened. If it weren't for that huge magic missile, Sharu probably KOs at least one more PC with the vesk out of the way.
Sharu is a beast, to be sure, though not as bad as the Garaggakal. She killed two of my players with critical hits from her sword. They were wounded from the previous battles and - while they had done some healing - she did enough damage to kill one outright and the other died from the bleed condition.
The Vesk and the Swarm are existential threats to the Pact Worlds. The Free Captains are not.
Sending Citadel Ships to hunt down a small asteroid in the Diaspora is a terrible waste of resources, and potentially makes them vulnerable to other opponents.
If you want to set up your campaign to have pirates being hunted down unmerciful, by all means do so. If your issue is how can pirates survive in the face of the other factions of the Pact Worlds, there are many explanations available.
Think too on the amount of resources it would take to muster up a fleet capable of doing this. Military actions take time and effort, and the factions you list would have to expend capital to do so. The benefit of eliminating the Free Captains may not be worth that expense - for now.
I also suspect the Free Captains are the sorts where - if Broken Rock were attacked - they would scatter and reconvene elsewhere. Broken Rock would inflict some casualties on the enemy, and some Free Captains would die. But the faction would not be eliminated and the problem would not be solved.
The Pact Worlds could ostensibly eliminate piracy the way the British did: Warships in every corner of the system, hunting them down. But unlike the Age of Sail British, the Pact Worlds are a fractious confederacy that lacks the political will and unified fleet necessary to do this.
Is there going to be a Character Cards product for the Chimera Mystery? Or at the very least a web enhancement we can use to create handouts for characters?
The adventure has some great character art and a really robust cast of characters. Given the fact that PCs will be interacting with those NPCs repeatedly, I would love to have something that the players can use as a visual anchor.
It's great that the Roll20 Product has handouts for many NPCs! I'm hoping for something similar for in-person games. Of course, this assumes in-person games are going to pick up again at some point.
It depends on what you consider to be "Roleplay potential." There aren't deep social intrigues or the like. But there are a lot of moments where PCs can solve problems and develop characters.
Book 1 is definitely combat focused, but there are parts that work well for roleplaying instead of fighting.
Book 2:
The opening aboard the spaceship has enormous roleplaying opportunity, especially in heading off/defeating the mutiny.
Book 3:
There are roleplaying opportunities with the forces left behind, especially if the PCs have downtime to gear up.
Book 4:
There's a lot of roleplaying moments in this book which have a direct impact on the aid and outcome of the PC's exploration of the monastary. This may be the kind of thing you are looking for?
Played it with my group last month and have to say I don't like it. The first one had a really nice epic military feeling to it. The second one felt more like a row of random "one-day" encounters.
Thanks for the input! This helps firm up my plan. I think I will really play up the psychic pressure of the God Host and the religious elements of Hylax. Make it clear to the players that it's not just military elements at play, but also potential religious elements.
I think I will play up the Fifth Column elements as less "agitators made worse by hidden psychic pressures" and more "the swarm breaking minds." Make the danger of the swarm and the Godhost deeper.
I also think I need to be prepared to explain that the Swarm isn't interested in Utraneus. The Swarm has alien motivations and actions, and its reason for not attacking Utraneus can be hard to understand from a pure military perspective.
(1) The relationship is not expressly spelled out. Given that Nor is accepting a Corpse Fleet double agent (as identified in Book 5), that the Corpse Fleet tries to kill this double agent at the end of Book 1, and that Nor assists the party in contacting the anti-corpse fleet agency in Book 3, I am portraying him as a staunch loyalist to the Pact Worlds. If you want to do it a different way you can.
(2) Destroying the gate is probably beyond the power of the PCs. Not sure if this is "Starfinder Canon," but in most Pathfinder games if a pocket dimension is destroyed whatever is in it is ejected back into the "main dimension." So destroying the gate could free the Degenerator.
The PCs could leave the gate in the care of the AI, but the arrival of the Corpse Fleet as set out in Book 6 would hopefully hammer home that if they do not deal with the Degenerator itself, the Corpse Fleet will find a way to activate the gate.
My players got to the jubsnuth tonight and that encounter did not go at all like I anticipated.
It emerged into the clearing. I described it's slathering, it's gnashing teeth in both mouths.
Then before I could call for initiative to be rolled, the xenoseeker mystic in the party declared she was casting charm monster on it....
and of course, it failed the saving throw, even with the threatened bonus.
She befriended it, made some amazing rolls on Survival to communicate with it and got it to follow her.
She named it Jubjub.
I had it lick her friendly like... so they lead it into the next encounter with the atrocite.
The atrocite centered his opening spell (cosmic eddy) on the jubsnuth. it failed it's save and so i had it panic and trample in a random direction... which ended up running right over the poor mystic. While the rest of the party engaged the atrocite, the mystic attempted to calm the jubsnuth down and did so successfully. She then tried to coax it to attack the atrocite by luring it towards the strocite by casting Wisp Ally... and that succeeded as well.
Needless to say, that poor atrocite became a meal of the Jubsnuth thanks to swallow whole.
We were laughing pretty hard at that.
That's a great story! I love emergent play like that.
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The rules for a Solarian's Weapon Crystal state that the crystal is discharged if the mote is ever "deactivated."
The Solarian's rules do not address when or how motes are "deactivated," however. The weapons and armor created from the mote can be "dismissed," but it's apparent from the text the mote does not cease to be in such instances. It also seems unusual that the Solarian would then have to pick up the crystal and reinsert it after every fight if they wanted it at the ready.
Are deactivated and dismissed supposed to be the same? Or are there potential rare effects which would deactivate the mote?
For those wondering about the Ambassador's package, Empire of Bones gives some additional information.
Spoiler:
The officer is a double agent from the Corpse Fleet. Motivation and true loyalties are not specified, but given the Ambassador's loyalty to the Pact Worlds, it's likely an informant against the Corpse Fleet.
As a general rule, I don't think it's problematic for the PCs to try to gain information from the corpse. Speak with Dead is probably the most likely spell to get information, as I doubt Depora would willingly be raised from the dead. A lot of GM's fear Speak with Dead, but should not. Here's a good article on its general uses:
The fact that no weapons can harm it is a pretty big hurdle at such a low level.
That is straight up false, i don't know where you got that info. He's even weak to electric damage.
He's incorporeal, immune to flame/laser/plasma weapons, and can drain life. That's pretty nasty for level 2 characters. It was sheer luck that one of our party had happened to buy a shock pistol and that we had a technomancer to cast Magic Missile at him. Everybody else was helpless.
It sounds like your GM ran the creature incorrectly. Have you looked at its stats? It only has radiation immunity, not flame immunity. It's not incorporeal, it can phase through solid things on its turn. Both that phase through and its life drain use up resolve points.
Regular weapons work on the creature, not just force weapons and electricity.
Hi, I'm getting ready to run the AP and my preparations for the first book are finished so I'm just getting started on reading the second book.
I wanted to know if the supplies the PC's can get from Turhalu Point were available to them for free or not? I can see why it might be free but it seems to me that an outpost would still need funds to stay supplied when they're far from civilization.
The resources are supposed to be free. The outpost is funded by various entities, including Qabarat University. The University, in turn, is willing to fund the rescue party to save Dr. Solstarni - unless your party has cut ties with the university. The outpost's basic resources are a stop-gap if your party didn't buy their own gear before heading out.
My counterpoint to this is why have the pit at all if you don't have the wizard in your party, if taking 10 completely eliminates the threat of something how is it fun or good story telling to include it in the first place.
GM: You are standing in a giant chasm, there is a 10 foot pit between you and the other side.
Player: I jump over it taking 10 and that means I automatically succeed.
GM: Well there went all the dramatic tension of that thing, why did I put the pit there in the first place.
The situation I am specifically thinking of isn't a pit, its a SFS scenario where the DC for success is 16. Anyone with a class skill and 16 in a stat can get a 16 with a take 10. The secondary success condition of the scenario is tied to this 16 roll, if the GM allows the party to take 10 they basically auto succeed at this part of the scenario how is that fun or meaningful?
I see what you are saying; here's how I'd answer your questions:
With regard to the pit example: You are correct that putting an easily traversed pit in a room with no other purpose is bad design. But such a pit can have other effects, a few examples of which are below:
(1) Said pit could also be a tunnel to a different area. Players may jump over it easily, and later climb down it.
(2) The area with the pit may become the scene of a battle. I rarely design scenarios where combat will only occur in the room envisioned; my players tend to have running battles. So while the pit in the room may not matter on the first crossing, when they're under fire and trying to escape the Death Troopers, it matters very much.
(3) Related, if there are random encounters in the area where the PCs are, a battle might occur in that room even if it isn't scripted.
(4) It might be part of a larger design. There may be several pits that are easily traversed, and several which aren't. Making players roll for all pits turns the challenge from "cross the large ones" to a "roll to fail" scenario where PCs are likely going to fail one roll because they are rolling so many times.
With regard to "meaningful results:" Generally speaking I think it comes down to what you find meaningful in these games. For me, it is meaningful that I designed a character who can do something relevant to the plot and do it well. Even if the character didn't roll, my character got to use the skills I selected, which validates my choice.
To use a Pathfinder example, I've run games where my carefully laid plans or bruising villains were undone by a party caster having the perfect spell for that moment. This was a validation of that player's choice, and I can tell you that those players considered that a very meaningful result of their choice even though there wasn't a chance of failure.
I can understand the sentiment that rolling to see if you succeed leads to a meaningful sentiment. I would consider the alternative: Is the failure on the check also meaningful? Or will it result in the player saying "OK, I do it again" with no other consequence. If it's the latter, I do not see the harm in taking 10, even though the check is relevant to the plot.
I haven't reviewed the scenario in question, but I have noticed in the Dead Suns AP many of the skill checks involved are much lower than my PCs are regularly hitting. I suspect that early Starfinder material designers were not sure how high DCs needed to be, given that they were developing material as the rules were finalized.
My problem with this system is you need to do a whole bunch of checks, bookkeep it, a d in the end it will not matter. I'd rather have a system with a single (more difficult?) roll for the day
The comment about book-keeping is fair. I've been running the section as a travelogue, and so the hour-by-hour check has been more to remind them that they need to rest. The book-keeping is broken up by events and descriptions.
You could probably boil it down to a higher DC check with a higher damage penalty once per day, if you're looking to get through this section more quickly. If the PCs are cautious about travel times, take regular breaks, etc. you can reduce the DC and the damage.
I disagree that it does not matter. I wouldn't eliminate the choice entirely, though. If the PCs ignore the dangers of heat and press on regardless, various encounters will go badly for them (as they would in real life). It makes sense to reward PCs for reacting to the environment and making smart choices, and to punish those who set off into the wilderness unprepared.
As has been referenced above, most of original works regarding Great Old Ones indicated they operated in a manner of consciousness beyond anything humans could process. They were not evil in the sense that they wanted to kill humans, no more than a person casually stepping on an ant while out for a walk is evil. Nodens hunted the great old ones, at least in Derleth's working of the mythos. Nodens wasn't "good," per se, it just was a force working against those that would casually wipe out humanity.
Pathfinder rules generally require an alignment, and so I might look at the "neutral" great old ones as "the ones who aren't actively going to wipe out existence" and the "evil" ones as "antithetical to reality as we know it." They are labels projected on the Great Old Ones, but functional for the purposes of magic, etc.
Can't you just stock up on batteries and recharge your armor on the way? Or am I missing something here?
When we reviewed the rules it appeared that armor needed more than batteries to recharge; hence why Turhalu point has some to top the players off before they go.
When my group took a few minutes to research Ukulam I telegraphed that it was the hot season, full of wildlife, and prone to storms of various types. They took the hint and all purchased Mobile Hoteliers. I am glad to reward them for this kind of smart thinking. That being said, if they made the right checks I might let them jury rig the Hotelier to recharge their armor (based solely on scenes from The Martian).
Further, I have not made them make Fortitude Saves for travelling at night/early morning. This has limited the number of saves they have had to make and during the hot days - when they've failed a few saves-they pop into their tent and leave someone in armor to keep watch.
Overall, my goal is to not force them to the breaking point of stamina each day, but rather reward them for smart playing when dealing with environmental hazards.
I've run Expedition to Ravenloft for Pathfinder Characters with barely any conversion. You have some "underpowered" creatures, but in 3.5 Ravenloft was an absolutely brutal campaign. Where monsters could be switched for their from-the-book Pathfinder Equivalent I did that, and some NPCs got switched for NPCs from the various hardcover books, but aside from that I ran it from the book.
7th Level Pathinder characters can move through more encounters in more "interesting" fashion and actually explore the entire castle without getting beaten down time and time again. It may not be as challenging at points, but the story will shine through.
That's the crux of the complaint isn't it? If one does not like this balance, it is kind of hard to change.
That's fair. Starfinder combat appears to be based on a particular paradigm of play; one that is different than Pathfinder. If it's not your cup of tea, there isn't an easy fix.
The big disconnect is that Starfinder combat - despite using the same mechanics and similar stats to Pathfinder - is very different than Pathfinder.
Having played through multiple combats, Starfinder characters can easily lose fights if they "stand and fight" as one would do in Pathfinder. Finding cover, teaming up, and creating advantageous situations outside of just attacking is necessary. Even Solarians and Soldiers - who shine in the thick of things - can't rely on attack rolls alone to win the day.
It's also put a lot of emphasis on getting better armor for my party. Overall, the dynamic is very different than anything I've played in Pathfinder, but it's a very good dynamic.
I fear I am plunging into a topic here which does not appear to be covered... but I am having a great deal of difficulty with the description of the surface of this asteroid. Just because we are playing a Science Fantasy game does not mean that the most basic of physics wholly vanishes. My trigger limit for verisimilitude is clearly lower than perhaps other posters' here.
We have an asteroid barely a mile in diameter, and it has a thin atmosphere? No. No it doesn't. And in the asteroid belt -- the Diaspora -- the surface of this asteroid is NOT going to feature a liquid pool of anything; it is an iceball. No, skeletons on the surface are not going to rot -- but they *will* freeze dry and dessicate, so that's not just similar -- it's *cooler*. Sometimes, science leads to more interesting things!
Anyway, these issues became such a distraction that I had difficulty reading the main narrative. I was simply too distracted by the impossible premise.
Pocket planes are one thing; but a small asteroid needs to at least attempt to BE a small asteroid.
Entirely fair - just remember this is an asteroid belt created by a magic weapon blowing up a planet with a river that runs between the various asteroids. The magic aspect of the setting does not meet scientific standards. But I have enough scientists in my party I've had to make similar acknowledgments.
It's pretty easy to make those changes. The PCs can wear breath apparatuses, the corpses can be dessicated instead of rotted, and perhaps the acid is actually a series of tiny acidic ice rivulets that still act as a pool for rules purposes. Do what you need to do to make the setting work for you and your players!
I have the same questions as my predecessors regarding Corpse Fleet, Escolar and PCs' Space Ship attack (at the beginning of AP2): what are everyone's motives?
Why haven't you answered?
It would be of great help because I don't understand why the Corpse Fleet would attack the PCs...
It's been addressed in some other threads:
Spoiler:
It's been confirmed that the Ambassador's "cargo" from Incident at Absalom Station will not resurface, and that GMs can work it as they see fit. Splintered Worlds makes significant use of the Corpse Fleet.
My explanation for the attack in Temple of the Twelve is that the Corpse Fleet Officer is a defector or - at the very least - a double agent bringing information to the Ambassador. The Ambassador is a loyal member of the Pact Worlds and is working to keep the Corpse Fleet at bay. It is logical that he would have spies, operatives, etc. in the Corpse Fleet.
The Corpse Fleet knew that their officer had escaped, and so is either trying to kill the officer or kill the PCs, who may have gained information from the officer.
It also can be explained by trying to slow down the Pact Worlds. The Corpse Fleet is a few steps ahead of the rest as to what the Drift Rock means, and killing the PCs is a great way to keep the Pact Worlds bickering over the Drift Rock, and not following them to the Stellar Degenerator.
My party has turned on Astral Extractions hard. The party is full of hard-luck Akitonians who sympathized with the Hardscrabble Collective and spat bitter hate for a corporation who assassinated Kreel. They also chose to keep these sympathies quiet for the time being, which means in the public eye they are a neutral group which is showing restraint on behalf of the Starfinders. So into Ambassador Nor's service they go.
But in the meantime, they want to start moving against Astral Extractions. The attempt on their life as they travel to the Drift Rock will likely increase this motive. At the end of the last session the party indicated they wanted to start gathering information on Astral Extractions, including board members, and figure out a long-term plan to punish the company.
I'm all about this kind of thing; I want my PCs to engage with the game world on their terms and having a Corp villain fits in well with the theme of the game. The rivalry with Astral Extractions can be a nice side piece to the rest of the plot.
That being said, anyone have any ideas or suggestions how to work this into AP? I'm not quite sure where to begin.
A group for which I am running Incident At Absalom Station had an interesting approach to the first section of the book:
Spoiler:
The party engaged full with the investigation into Kreel's death. In the chaotic moments following the firefight they stole Kreel's personal computer and hacked it to gain information on Kreel. That hack check, and every key culture, diplomacy, or profession check that came about, were all absurdly good rolls (17+). As the characters were hitting every 30+ roll, they were able to learn of Astral Extraction's ordering the death of Kreel. They also got in good with the Hardscrabble Collective.
All in all, this is great. We made the checks to get the information into interesting set of roleplaying encounters (including becoming indebted to some shady elements to get inside dirt on Astral Extractions), and it was a satisfying investigation for the PCs (Mama Fats and Jabaxa are the first memorable NPCs of the campaign).
But this means they had all the information they needed for Chiskesk from their checks, and didn't engage with the Downside Kings. Chiskesk mentioned that Astral Extractions was too powerful for the Starfinders to retaliate, but if the Downside Kings suffered a setback it would send a message. The PCs were (reasonably) unwilling to storm a gang hideout and start shooting. Instead they're surveilling the Kings, biding their time, and perhaps planning to ambush the leaders outside of the Fusion Queen.
From a story perspective, I'm fine with all of that. They have still come to the attention of Ambassador Nor, and what they do with the Downside Kings is up to them. I'll have to figure out how to keep them caught up on XP and cash - I don't think they missed out on all that much.
All in all, I'm pretty impressed with it. The PCs and Players are fully engaged with Absalom Station, and while I had no way to predict their course of action, the module had plenty of information to let me fill in the details.
I figured I'd post this here in case other groups have similar results.
Also the characters were wondering about a career change if a meat brewer can afford to use 2500 credit grenades to get meat off the vats and even give away 3 of them :D
Food's a lucrative business, even to undead!
That being said, with your note, I may change those to "Industrial Grade Vat Cleaners" that just happen to act as grenades, so my players don't change professions mid-AP.
There seems to be quite lot of genuine railroading in this ap ._. "Oh, player's disable Ambassador's camera? Well he had other methods to film pcs". What if party decides to check their ship for bugs regularly?
The Eoxian involvement in Book 1 and Book 3 does have too much fait accompli for my taste.
Spoiler:
My solution is, as discussed above, to say that the Corpse Fleet is also monitoring the Cult of the Devourer, which is less careful in checking. If the PCs block the Ambassador, or find the tracking device, they might get the drop on the Corpse Fleet, but it won't disrupt the major story beats.
Overall, I've been very pleased with the variety of options in roleplaying and scenarios available to the PCs. With a few certain exceptions, the clues to and avenues for players success seem varied.
So I'm a bit mixed on the Eox section of Splintered Worlds. Eox has a sufficiently creepy vibe for an undead world; the juxtaposition of "civilized life" laid over meat-growing factories and workers slaving for a promise of being made undead is what Starfinder should be.
** spoiler omitted **
Just a heads up, so you know:
** spoiler omitted **
Thanks for the heads up!
Spoiler:
I see now the note in Incident at Absalom station about the party being tracked in book 5. I appreciate it's my campaign, but you good Paizo folk have put a lot more thought into the story than I have, and I don't want to be changing major beats.
Thinking about it more, my concern is that (1) Nejeor is a clue the party might potentially miss and (2) it's a bit of a tenuous connection to the Corpse Fleet and the Cult of the Devourer. Having played a few sessions, my party loots computers like Pathfinders loot treasure chests, so the first concern is mitigated. The second concern could be addressed by having a few more notes in later encounters regarding the Corpse Fleet monitoring the Cult of the Devourer, and seeing reference to Nejeor in various communications. That way it adheres to the story as written and builds up Nejeor as a hook.
So I'm a bit mixed on the Eox section of Splintered Worlds. Eox has a sufficiently creepy vibe for an undead world; the juxtaposition of "civilized life" laid over meat-growing factories and workers slaving for a promise of being made undead is what Starfinder should be.
Spoiler:
The rest of the section assumes too much, however. The Corpse Fleet's plan relies on too much convenience and I suspect my players will take different routes (one poster already commented that his party will fly when the adventure assumes they'll walk). This is a mystery section in which players - and NPCs - may act in unusual ways.
So I'm going to rework the adventure a bit to free up the players. The Corpse Fleet actors may not strike as described in the book - instead they'll gauge and observe the players and strike when they're vulnerable.
Step 1 is to bolster the Corpse Fleet goal. Zeera Vesh isn't there just to kill the PCs, she's also working to recruit new talent. Nejeor shows up several more times (not just on her computer, but on information given to recruits for a rallying point). She tends to meet with recruits at Skullcap Gorge. The clues left for the PCs are less intentional and more the result of active recruiting.
It also gives Waneda Trux a bit more to do. She's actively sitting on a Corpse Fleet recruiting operation. Whether she does anything with it is up to her.
Vesh hopes to lure the PCs to the Marrowblight's lair. If that doesn't work she'll step in directly. Alternatively, the PCs might confront her at Skullcap Gorge if they can piece together that's where she's operating. Or they may track her down elsewhere. I think regardless, it will be a satisfying conclusion.
Overall, my goal is twofold: Make the clues pointing to a Corpse Fleet action at Nejeor more robust, and make the Corpse Fleet feel like a much more active and connected enemy. It is my hope that this will bolster further books
I have another question for those who have run the adventure about a particular combat.
Spoiler:
Why would Xerantha sit inside her shack while Trampleram engages the PCs? I think she'd wait until Trampleram either ambushes or engages them, then try to flank and kill the PCs. Is there a reason she wouldn't?
However, the story simply assumes that the characters will go find her by foot. I'm fairly certain my players will start to look for a chopper/hovercar or something like that rather than walk (hell, people don't even walk today, why would they in scifi-future?) which will pretty much destroy the coming ambush. Any good ideas to either steer them to walking or getting them to understand why you can't rent a flying vehicle in a scifi-setting? :P
The continent in question is a heavily regulated and protected wilderness environment. It's explained on page 14 under section 2. You can't even go to the continent without prior authorization and all flights (other than those of governmental agents) are forbidden.
I think you're confusing this with Temple of Twelve. The book simply says that the area with the Marrowblight is outside the environmental dome.
If my players wanted to take a sealed air transport to the Marrowblight's area, I would let them. And on their return, over Skullcap Gorge, anti-air fire drives them to the ground. Perhaps the Corpse Fleet has a few Surface to Air missiles? It's "rail-roady" but it doesn't negate player choice entirely, and creates kind of a neat scene as they are crashing, trying to get on protective gear, etc.
IF they didn't bring protective gear, this could be a TPK, however.
I've run Emerald Spire on Roll20 in the past and used the ambient lighting effect there so PCs without darkvision had literally no idea what was going on around them. We thought it was great fun since it meant they had to rely on PCs with darkvision to direct them: "There's a goblin 15 feet to your left! No, your other left!" Needless to say it made for some awesome roleplaying and was a good bonding experience - like a trust fall, but with horse choppers. :)
That's fantastic!
My group had three dwarves in it (five player group), so the two without dark vision were very reliant on other other players. It made scouting out the complex much more interesting.
Gnomatsu has made some amazing handouts for Temple of the Twelve, and Yazza posted a great video of Nashes' Video logs. I really appreciate this work!
Does anyone else have a lead on or suggestions for making handouts for the Dead Suns AP? My group really engages with them; for those who have run the AP already, is there anything in particular that's better in print than just read aloud?
I had some similar questions when reading the book. I think there are several ways you can approach it. For all of them, I picture the Lashunta, et al., protecting the preserve as some of the most hard-core rangers there are. They aren't swayed by talk of ancient mysteries or kidnapping. To them, someone can always find reasons to bend the rules of the preserve. If they started making exceptions, the preserve would soon be irreparably damaged by the hundreds of "really good cases." And they're probably right.
So as to the reasons:
(1) There's a lot of airborne wild-life that needs to be protected! Skyfishers, for example. Airflights near or around the preserve disrupt and destroy their habitats.
(2) It's too hard to keep those who are flying over from landing quickly, and damaging the preserve through poaching, etc. Because the resources involved in policing and enforcing a "go fly, no land" zone would be enormous, and the rules easily circumvented anyway, it is better to have a blanket no fly zone enforced by planetary wardens.
(3) There've been big problems in the past with "sky-poachers" taking wildlife from the air without even landing.
The politics aspect Ventnor mentioned is one to consider too. I think outright war might be a bit extreme, but the various independent factions don't trust each other enough to come up with a system to allow flight licenses, and so have banned them entirely.
So now that we've completed the Emerald Spire, I figured I'd provide a more detailed-write up about each of the levels and the experiences my party had.
Overall Thoughts
The Spire was great. I'd recommend it to anyone who is looking to do a dungeon-crawl style adventure. In playing we didn't discover any parts that were unplayable, contradictory, etc. Now, each level was developed independently of the others, so there is a theme change from each, but that actually helps. It kept each level fresh, and gave my players a reason to want to descend further: They liked seeing what was down there. Along the way, we wove a pretty cohesive story.
The Party
The "Shorter than Average Adventuring Company," so named in a flippant moment in front of Karn Kerommack, Castellan of Fort Inevitable. They initially consisted of Magnus, Dwarven Barian, Hroun, Dwarven Druid, Fjellhammer, Dwarven Cleric, Ro, Halfling Sorcerer, and Buell, the tolken Human rogue. Ro had his throat slit on level three, and was replaced by Abe, a gnome wizard. The - natural endurance - of the party kept other casualties at bay, though there were several points where things looked grim for the party. They started at Lv. 1, and were Lv. 13 at the end - including XP from random encounters and side-quests.
Level 1 spoiler:
Level 1 struck the right tone for starting off - a glass fort infested by goblins. The darkness that filled each room even during the day gave a sense of danger and foreboding for new adventurers. The party wasn't aware of it when they had trouble with Sparky, but that automaton was a harbinger for a lot of trouble to come.
Level 2 spoiler:
I did spoil this for the party inso far as I told them that Ed Greenwood had written this level. This set them off on a search for secret doors and traps that was well-rewarded. The Moon Spider traps led to some very interesting fights, and the party took the time at the end to burn every web-filled room they could find. The trapped ceiling nearly killed them all, but a few very lucky rolls meant most of the party hit the deck in time. This was also where they first learned of Klarkosh.
Level 3 spoiler:
Level 3 was the moment when the party came into its own. They snuck in through a secret door to the bandit lair, and a full running battle occurred. They were darting back and forth through the level, trading shots with bandits, triggering traps, and eventually culminating in a full-on melee in the chapel. The sorcerer, seeking a back way for an ambush, accidentally foudn the gibbering mouther, and had to lock himself in the bathroom to survive. This was the first time in the campaign the party was on their feet over the battlemat, shouting and whooping. If you are running this, take the time to plot where bandits are and how they will react to the party's intrusion. It was great fun.
Level 4 spoiler:
The party still talks about the God-Box. Because of the troglodyte welcome, the party established they wouldn't fight anyone who was polite to them. This rule didn't survive the campaign, but the party befriended the troglodytes, took the tour, politely refused the Holy Grub, and paid a sacrifice to the God Box. It was a really fun role-playing level, and was very memorable as an experience.
Level 5 spoiler:
The best water level I've ever played. The summoners weren't terribly polite to the party, and were cut down quickly. The druid had a lot of fun summoning water elementals, and the level lay-out meant that the PCs got to think outside of combat by using water-breathing spells, focusing on manuevering, and getting sucked into a few ambushes. The party prevailed, soggier than before, and was glad to go on their way. The adamantine axe found as treasure would be the primary tool of the party in the future, used to bypass many phsical obstacles in levels to come.
Level 6 spoiler:
One thing that I had tried to do with the NPCs in the spire was play-up Klarkosh a bit as a petty dictator. It worked. The party was eager to see this clockwork level, having fought automatons and heard his name. Klarkosh put up a good fight, and his chamber traps were fun, but he fell. The clockwork nature of this level was fun for the PCs, and they enjoyed playing with it. They also had bought a house in Fort Inevitable by this point, and so looted Klarkosh's bed room and "dwarfed" the furniture back to their new home.
Levels 7 and 8 spoiler:
Serpent people - why did it have to be serpent people. Overall, these two levels together were fun. The party had no intention of allying with either side of the serpent people's battles, but the struggle between the two gave good context to the adventure. It put in context why Klarkosh had not gone south, tied the Spire into the darklands, and seperated the party. The trap on Level 8 split them up in a somewhat hilarious way, and trepidation of both groups as they moved to remeet was great as the GM. Plus, the survivors of the fight on level 7 rallied and ambushed them with the Tiawask imposter as the party tried to return to Fort Inevitable, leading to what might have been the toughest fight of the campaign that far.
Level 9 spoiler:
After the splendor and finery of the previous levels, the squalor of level 9 was a change. So were the nature of the challenges - morlocks aren't brawlers, but their numbers proved troublesome. The high-number of traps also caught the PCs off guard. But with a barbarian and rogue, they were able to push through and clear the level. They decided dealing with a devil wasn't their best option, and the Mistriss of Thorns was cut down.
Level 10 spoiler:
The Magma Vault - they had heard of this. This level proved to be tough for the party, which as most had fire resistance and fire-domain spells was surprising. But the various elemental creatures nearly proved too much, and the party was forced to retreat at one point. They rallied to return, and were glad to find the treasure hoard at the end. The elemental theme of this level was very strong, and very fun. They were beginning to see how the spire was "changing" the world around it.
Level 11 spoiler:
Poor Yarrix. The party wasn't locked in with her - she was locked in with them. I had made the party aware of Yarrix with rumors earlier, and so they were charged with the Church of Saranrae to stop her. The Lovecraftian vibes of this level were a neat change of pace, and the party was unsettled. The battle with the Retriever while a swarm of winged-eels swept around them was the most memorable visual of the level, with the barbarian levitating in the middle of the pit while the others shot from the sides.
Level 12 spoiler:
Another great change of pace. Playing the steward like C3PO and presenting the rag-tag spa as a chance to rest, the PCs were very cautious but soon yielded to the available services. It actually set up a nice scene where the PCs wanted to "restore" the Iron Creche because the other automatons were so nice to them. It also meant the PCs had to use changed tactics against the reclaimers, which was a fun step away from hack-and-slash. The last battle was also really fun, as the PCs found ways to block the "spawn points" (for lack of a better phrase) while pushing towards the spire. My favorite moment, however, was when they looked in the furnace, saw the elementals, asked "does anyone want to go in there" and then shut the door. That's smart thinking.
Level 13 spoiler:
Another neat change of theme. The scene of the "orchestra" at the beginning was really fun to play out, and I think the PCs felt bad about killing the Imp in the end. The rest of the level had the right feeling of an alien and off garden that made them strongly considering purging it all with fire. The final battle with Nhur Athemon's lieutenant was really hard for them, as they weren't prepared for a flying, invisible enemy. Overall, it was at this point it was clear the Spire was providing a variety of enemies and challenges without sacrificing quality. They left the basilisk in its cage, though, deciding it wasn't worth the risk. Poor little guy.
Level 14 spoiler:
The PCs loved this level. The battle with the knights and time-trap, the banter with Abraxas, the insane outsider, all hit the right thematic tone. The real kicker was the battle with Nhur Athemon. I had been building him up for a while - crowned skull encounters, fearful whispers from earlier levels, lingering Azlanti rumors. The battle did not disappoint, with summoned Wooly Rhinos smashing emerald aristocrats and mirrors, triggering symbols, and a floating lich beset by multiple angry dwarves.
Level 15 spoiler:
This was perhaps the trickiest for me to run. The fight with Nhur Athemon had been a seeming culmination of the campaign. The threat of something lower wasn't as well-established. The party - mostly neutral alignments - wasn't terribly on the side of either inevitables or proteans. Because they had rescued the inevitable from level 10, they sided with them initially. However, this led to the situation where they realized the proteans were going to be overwhelmed without their totem, and the inevitables wouldn't let the PCs to level 16. The book states that these scenarios are beyond the scope of the adventure, but it is highly likely one side or the other will gain an advantage as the PCs advance. Have a plan in place for this. My party, realizing the stakes, held of waves of inevitable squads while the rogue snuck through the secret passage to shut down the gate. This was a favorite fight of the PCs. It shows that when you get multi-room, multi-part fights going, PCs can get into it!
Level 16 spoiler:
The final vault. The PCs hadn't heard much of the Vault Builder, but knew it was down here, and had to be stopped. The "root" nature of the spire at this point was a nice twist. It was a visual and thematic indication the end was nigh. They bantered with the insane Roper (whose prewritten questions were hilarious). They stole dart guns from Elder Things (the rogue thinking "I can use this"). The hint of other vaults was concerning to the PCs, who were hoping to end the threat here. The battle with the Vault Builder, and race to stop its ressurection, was also great. Earth Elementals leaping through walls, a shining child trying to drive everyone insane, a race to break open doors. In the end, they stood battered but victorious.
Final Spoiler:
The party wizard used the wish from Abraxas to gain knowledge on how to control the spire. This required him to bind the soul of the vault builder to the base using a spell beyond his ken, so Abraxas would "kindly" cast it through him. We ended with the gnome being the new master of the spire - a concerning but presently acceptable state of affairs to his friends. This is a departure from the book, but seeing as how the gnome is now evil and beholden to a Demon Lord, means there's some great new adventure available. The Hell Knights may have something to say about this ... as will the party cleric.
Notes for GMS:
If you are thinking of running the Spire, I encourage it! Here are some notes I have that may help you:
- Get the Thornkeep Book, if possible. Putting the Spire in the context of the Echo Woods helped a lot. My PCs took time to visit Thornkeep, skirmished in Mosswater, and were nearly ambushed by Jaderazor (favorite random encounter, ever). As it happens, this meant they sought out Jaderazor and killed her in her lair. These were really fun moments that didn't detract from the Spire, but made it seem part of a thriving campaign world.
- Use random encounters for travel to and from the Spire. Starting out, the PCs knew that getting to the Spire could be dangerous. It made them make the most of their time in the spire, take a few days to recover in Fort Inevitable, and some times nearly killed them. But they knew they had become powerful when the goblins in the woods started really avoiding them.
- Figure out Fort Inevitable. In my game, Fort Inevitable was the safest place for caravans and pilgrims in miles. People tolerated the Hellknights because they were tough but fair, and kept them safe. The PCs didn't like the taxes one bit, but they put up with it and even befriended the rulers because they liked the safe place too.
- Have fun with Fort Inevitable. My PCs enjoyed interactions with the NPCs there, and following-up on rumors. They were friends with Abernard Royst, had good relations with High Mother Sarah Dresmaigne, and went out of their way to help the "good" farmers around grow better crops. They found the map on the Red Shield, fought gremlins in the sewer to secure their basement, and got pretty good at smuggling. This is all ancilliary to the Spire, but adds great characterization to the game.
- Telegraph the main villains. Have the PCs hear the names Klarkosh, Nhur Athemon, and Illuchtwar ahead of time. Have crowned skull undead attack the PCs. Have them encounter destroyed caravans infested by ghouls. Have portals pop-up to dangerous places. The battles with each only lasted a few rounds, but they were crazy fun for the PCs. They knew they were fighting big villains who had been hounding them, even though they had never encountered the villains before.
Again, we loved the module. I strongly recommend it, and would be glad to discuss anything here further!
I'm pleased to announce we finished the Emerald Spire tonight! Nearly a year of real time playing, but the party went through (almost) every room, slew every bad guy, followed side quests in the Echo Woods, and in the end stood victorious. I'll prepare a write-up in the near future, but it was so much fun to wrap up the game that I had to share.
I wonder. What would be the Hellknight policy about poisons? . . . I think that the Hellknights would confiscate all the poison. That would be ugly for the Ninja.
So I'm asking for second thoughts and any way to avoid the problem.
I would say - given the Lord Commander's opposition to the "malcontents" in Fort Inevitable - they would be really hesitant to allow someone to bring in poisons. But your PC will likely be finding lots of poisons in the 3rd level. But I think there are several good options, and you don't want to deny a Ninja their poisons.
1) As the Ninja is Lawful and serving with Hellknights, he pays a modest fee (50 gp, etc.) and gets a Letter of Dispensation from the Castellan or Lord Commander letting him lawfully carry poisons. Essentially a permit for lethal poisons. If someone ends up poisoned later on, he's a prime suspect, however.
2) The Ninja works to conceal them from the other Hellknights. This could cause party strife, so it's only good if your players are game for some good role-playing and can get along. The Apothecary in town is a shady fellow - with a secret that could eventually come back to haunt the Ninja - but may be willing to slip him some things on the DL.
3) The Ninja keeps a stash of poisons in the Echo Woods, without bringing them to town. There's lots of good hiding places. The other Knights know he uses them, but also know he doesn't bring them to a civilized place.
I've run the Spire from Level 1 to level 14 (they just discovered there's a level 15!) for a party of 5. They have followed the progression Cpt Kirstov identified; however that was only after a large number of "side" adventures in the Echo Woods (the Thornkeep Sourcebook has been very useful for that). The stated progression is for four PCs, so with 5 PCs they would be lower level but for their side adventures. As this could have proven lethal several times, I'm fine with it.
With the varying number of players, it can be hard to pin down the exact number. Seven PCs of that level will easily overcome challenges that would be brutal for 3 PCs - especially on certain levels.
I would recommend following that progression listed above, but modifying the encounters. For 3 PCs, perhaps have a regular NPC adventurer from Fort Inevitable who is willing to tag along. For 6-7 pcs, buff out the encounters with some extra creatures. In the Drowned Level, for instance, it's easy to justify the presence of a shark or an extra Imp.
