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The Drunken Dragon's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 574 posts. 1 review. No lists. No wishlists.


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Grand Lodge

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And you can even reason away the power difference in that the familiar may be passed down, but the bond is still "new", so the familiar can't access the powers it had when its master was a more powerful spellcaster

Grand Lodge

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Tacticslion wrote:
The Drunken Dragon wrote:
I mean, Erastil is the least flexible of the LG gods.

** spoiler omitted **

(Anyway, I submit that this could be way off topic; mostly the repeated use of him as, "Well he wouldn't accept such a thing." struck me as particularly odd, given his...

You raise some good points sir (on the entirety of your posts) and i would to subscribe to your newsletter.

Kidding aside, those *are* good points I didn't consider, and as much as I dislike it, I must agree. Morality is, by virtue of the alignment system existing, objective in-game.

As to the source of that magical food...I have absolutely no idea. An attempt at a quick google search turned up nothing. I can't be confident that it even occurred in an actual game setting, but it may have been given as a hypothetical in a splat-book or blog somewhere and i latched onto the idea. Heck, it might even have been a post on these very messageboards, and it's been too long for me to not suffer source confusion. So...unfortunately, I can provide no help. The closest I can think of is that gnome village in Isger that uses alchemically treated heat-rocks instead of fire, and that's only because of the similarity in theme (using magic to ignore a basic survival necessity).

Grand Lodge

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I mean, Erastil is the least flexible of the LG gods. As to there being an objective, absolute morality...I'd actually be inclined to disagree with that. Other than spell effects, the specifics of what moral standing an act has seems to depend on the divinity judging you at the time. But, I digress.

I do recall there being people in RPGs who specifically subsist on magical fare for exactly that reason, because they consider consuming any life to survive abhorrent, so they manufacture it from pure aether instead. This an extreme dietary restriction...I guess? To be honest, if you had the resources to do this often enough, it seems like a pretty good option, considering you could just magic yourself up whatever food you wanted without any moral qualms,

Grand Lodge

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I mean, there are several reasons why this action isn't intelligent, but there is very little justification for it being immoral unless you're playing under an absolute morality system (in which case, you can just state: "that is evil" and debate is irrelevant, as you can classify things as good or bad and they stay that way, free of context...thus, absolute morality).

1.) While there's no gameplay reason this is unwise, typically, folklore warns against consuming or using the flesh of a unicorn, as it tends to curse the individual in some fashion. Either the unicorn's flesh/ichor is poisonous when used by another without the being's consent, or else it invokes the ire of the unicorn's protector.

2.) Unicorns tend to be overseen by protectors. As good-aligned magical beings, they tend to work closely with good outsiders and deities related to same. "Defiling" a unicorn's corpse might insult some good-aligned deities. The only way you can get around that is the necessity angle, and even then, that might not cut it for some (here;s looking at you, Erastil).

But's dead, so who cares? It certainly doesn't (unless it's soul stuck around and it decides that this desecration is enough to warrant a haunting...which is statistically unlikely, as that would make predation...complicated), and nobody else does either. Meat is meat. Sure, it *used* to be a thinking, feeling being. But now it isn't. It is a pile of slowly rotting organic matter which is technically edible, so...yeah, whatever. Most of the "moral" reasons such practices are looked down upon IRL have cultural ties (e.g. curses, improper burial which leads to hauntings, blasphemy, etc.), or else have practical concerns that were voiced by our ancestors in weird pseudo-magic babble because nobody knew what allergies and food poisoning was. Or, finally, because the idea of eating something that you could talk to a minute ago might squick you out. These are all reasonable concerns in a magical world, where the aforementioned curses may very well be real. But if that is just a folkloric exaggeration, this doesn't appear to be a moral issue at all. They found roadkill. They ate it. Soooooo...what? The fact that the roadkill was a unicorn isn't really that big a deal. Like, they make wands and spell components out of unicorn parts, and not even for evil-aligned spells and magic items. I don't see why cooking it is any different. Besides...again.

Is it wrong ethically? No. Ethics doesn't really concern the dead in any way except on a societal scale. This is not a societal issue. They found a lone dead body in the woods and then chowed down. Gross, sure. Immoral? Not in a relativistic definition of morality, no. Unethical? Hardly. Should they be penalized? Up to you. I'd let them roll knowledge (arcana) or (religion) first though before making that a rule, because by RAW, unicorn-eating has no mechanical downside, so even if they are invoking the wrath of some demigod or spirit, you should give them a reasonable shot at intuiting that first. Otherwise...ew, sure, but...meh? These are people who dig up people's graves for their shiny objects for a living and kill people over mild disagreements just for the experience points. This isn't exactly out of character behavior for adventurers, who tend to have...unconventional solutions to normally non-existent problems.

Grand Lodge

Most of the APs I've read have standard animals behaving pretty realistically, with excerpts saying that they'll flee if injured enough or scared away. Otherwise, I run them as a situation demands it (i.e. some species are very territorial or aggressive, whereas most will ignore or flee from sapient lifeforms).

Grand Lodge

I'd do one of two possible things. One is I'd go with an Oracle with the Winter mystery, then stock up on every possible cold or wind based spell in the spell-list.

Two is become a Kineticist with water as my first choice. At seventh, I'd take air so I could have blizzard blast, and then finish up with water again at 15th so I could become a master of ice, wave, and wind. Basically, the character would become the physical embodiment of a Canadian port during a winter storm.

Grand Lodge

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Honestly, I used to think the overabundance of magic items is also kind of...well, limiting. I was wrong. It's all a matter of perspective. Because wonder is all where you stand.

Magic on this scale basically evolves into technology. Suddenly, all sorts of innovations and ideas become possible. The scale of a campaign can change drastically when someone makes a realization that changes the scale. Take, for instance, a mage that realizes that they can imbue long lengths of steel with the power to repel metal in one direction...and now you have a train. And you can have an entire campaign based around it. Or, maybe, one country gets access to potions so cheaply and easily that their life expectancy and profit greatly overshadows others, and they become a magocracy threatening invasion.

Seeing them as an opportunity allows you to play on different things. Yes, they're ubiquitous, but what are the consequences of that? How seriously do people take them? What do the magic items a culture produces say about its core values? Beliefs? Level of understanding? How do they treat them? Play it up, and no one will ever lose the wonder.

I mean, Eberron basically had magic items on every street corner and it's certainly epic in scale.

Grand Lodge

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Considering that on Golarion, one can find direct evidence of the hand of the gods and that morality is a little less loose on account of someone actually deciding what is or is not reasons for not worshipping IRL sort of disappear. I'd probably end up worshipping Shelyn. I don't have much artistic talent, but I dig her whole shtick. In fact, if such a thing were relevant, I might even become a priest of her's. Maybe write poetry, or clean the temple. Or something.

Grand Lodge

So, recently a condition of Permanency stood out at me, and I'm trying to determine if, by RAW, there is a way to circumvent it. According to Permanency, you must be a minimum caster level in order to make certain spells Permanent. Let us us Enlarge Person as an example, which requires one to be CL 9.

Say, for example, I was a Barbarian or something who is currently level 6. Then, let us say for the sake of argument that I wanted to be Large size. According to what I've read, the use of a Scroll of Permanency created by a 9th level caster (the minimum required level to make Enlarge Person) permanent is a DC 29 Use Magic Device check. Then, assuming I got someone to cast Enlarge Person on me, could I then use that scroll, assuming I succeed on my UMD check, even though I'm not level 9? (assuming I've paid the necessary 2,500 gp. extra diamond dust in addition to the scroll's price). Or is the minimum caster level of the spell in reference to the person "casting" the spell (i.e. the user of the scroll), and would therefore be impossible even with a successful UMD check?

In other words, can a character use UMD and a scroll made by a 9th level wizard make a spell permanent even though they themselves are not the minimum caster level for it?

Grand Lodge

Non-caster: Ninja. I like the idea of an assassin that can use a few tricks to make themselves seem more elusive.

Arcane: Summoner. Even unchained, I love the idea of a caster with basically a pet outsider that they can tweak. If anything, I like the unchained more, because it feels more balanced.

Divine: Shaman. I like witches, and I like oracles, but when you put the two of them together,'s pretty great.

Nature: Hunter. For the same reason as the Summoner, except that in this instance it's not just "master and the pet that actually does things" it's "master and pet and both work together."

Occult: Kineticist. Because playing a bender is by far my favorite thing to do.

Grand Lodge

Hello, fellow denizens of the Paizo community. I have recently moved to a new town (Norman, Oklahoma) and was looking for a group (either existing or merely players) that might be living in the area interested in a game of Pathfinder. The type and style don't matter much to me, I just want to meet new people (and preferably an able-bodied DM).

Thank you for your time.

Grand Lodge

Oh, these are fun...until they get out of hand. But, whatever. From my extremely limited knowledge of the source material...

Superman-The guy is a walking advertisement of the LG alignment. They call him the Big Blue Boyscout for a reason.
Batman-Dude I have no idea. Every different version of Batman gets such inconsistent depictions that the whole "he is every alignment" spreadsheet begin to sound more reasonable every year.
Joker-CE. "Some men just want to watch the world burn" or whatever.
Lex Luthor-Dunno. From what I remember as a kid from the old JLA cartoons, he always seemed NE. A villain willing to double-cross people but also holding to a certain standard. Maybe.
Spiderman-LG. Great power comes with yadda yadda yadda.
J.J.J.-No idea
Captain America-So LG it's almost painful. "i don't want to kill people, i just don't like bullies." That's put him in the NG camp, but the fact that he sticks rigidly to what he believes is right no matter what, and has a strict code of...well, essentially honor that he adheres to sorta puts the Lawful in there.
The Punisher-Also no clue
Iron Man-All i know of Iron Man is from the movies, and there he seems like a mix between CN and CG. See, he seems initially selfish, but over time I sort of think he's generally a good guy who has MASSIVE authority and teamwork issues. So, CG. Mostly.
Thor-Again, all i know is the movies. Marvel comics were never something I got into. In those he seems...a vague mix between LG (at least in the later films) or something similar. he wants to do right by his dad and the honor his position demands. In the first film he was more CN.
Captain Kirk-NG? Hard to explain but that's the vibe I get.
Picard-Dunno. Never got to Next Gen
The Doctor-That's worse than the Batman one. Unlike Batman, who gets re-interpreted by different writers every few years but is still the same dude, the Doctor literally changes run to run. Like, not just in appearance, but in temperament as well. I'd say the Good part is in there, but whether he's L/N/C is impossible to pin down. Though I'd say the only truly full LG Doctor was probably John Hurt, and he's not technically "the Doctor" as he was a soldier at the time...soooooo...meh
Han Solo-I dunno, CG? CN initially, maybe?

Grand Lodge

minoritarian wrote:
Every time I've looked at the charts for height and weight I've always thought they produced overweight characters. The baseline for a male human is 4'10/120lbs which is a BMI of 25. First two randomly generated I get are 6'1/195lbs (again BMI of over 25) and 5'11/185lbs (25.8). So yeah, skewed into the "Slightly overweight" category.

of course, from most art depictions in sourcebooks I've seen since starting DnD, it's assumed your PCs will be Conan-the-Barbarian level buff before they even pick up their first greatsword. I mean, Ezren probably has a strength of like 6 but...look at those shoulders. Now take into account that unless you're a squishy spellcaster you have above average (10+ strength) or so.

To put it simply: you're supposed to be mad swol bro.

Grand Lodge

Humans: Because why not? Yes, I personally hate playing as humans, but I admit they're necessary.

Ratfolk: Also because why not, but for the exact opposite reasons as above. Because I like them even though I know they're unnecessary. That, and Halflings weird me out.

Kitsune: Rather than gnomes, I'd take the enchantment-based tricksters as opposed to illusion-based prankers. It's...basically just aesthetics at this point.

Dwarves: Because c'mon. The Hobbit was cool.

Elves: The fey-folk that aren't completely crazy and seem to evoke the old lords and ladies of the sidthe feel? Sign me up.

Kobolds: As opposed to Half-Orcs, I'd prefer them as a race for the sole purpose that they seem like neat little buggers. I just wish their stats weren't so awful.

Tieflings: Why not the other guys? Meh. Rather than half-elves, I'd pick Tieflings, mainly because I think Tieflings are awesome-looking, and because of all of the different varities of "extraplanar half-mortal" breeds, they seem the most reasonable. Angels tend to interbreed with mortals in most myths once every 10,000 years, and I've never even heard of genie-born outside of Paizo. But demon-tainted children? They may as well be standardized.

Grand Lodge

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Arthur Dent?

Grand Lodge

Hm...dunno. I'd kinda argue for LG for Jon, mainly due to his constant attempts to follow in his father's Lawful Stupid tendencies. His occasional breaks with the Lawful alignment came at great personal suffering for him, and as I've always been in the "intention=alignment" camp, I still think he holds towards LG.

As for Littlefinger, I'd go for CE, mainly because his purpose is to create as much wreckage as possible so he can climb to the top. He doesn't want to create order...he just wants to put himself on top of all the bodies. In my opinion, that's not really order.

I'll also go with the whole NG designation for Daenerys, because she does have a respect for doing certain things by the book, and tries very hard to get things to go in an orderly fashion. However, because she believes strongly in personal freedom and eliminating unjust institutions if necessary for "the greater good" (in her mind) I'd say NG makes sense.

As for everybody else, without tedious explanation...

The LG's: Eddard Stark, Jon Snow, Barristan Selmy, Loras Tyrell (to some degree), Brienne of Tarth, Catelyn Tully, Rob Stark, Davos Seaworth, Joer Mormont, Samwell Tarly, Thoros of Myr
The NG's: Daenerys Targarean, Tyrion Lannister, Tommen "Baratheon", Margaery Tyrell (perhaps), Beric Dondarrion, Gendry, Bran Stark
The CG's: I'm not one-hundred percent certain there are any. Maybe Strong Belwas and Arianne Martell. Oh, and Brynden Tully. Edmure Tully might also qualify.
The LN's: Stannis Baratehon, Jorah Mormont, Maester Pycelle, Kevan Lannister, Doran Martell, and Maybe Melissandre (hard to say), Jaime Lannister
The N's: Possibly Varys and Mance Rayder, and maybe Sansa Stark
The CN's: Arya Stark, Oberyn Martell, Robert Baratheon, "Alayne", Ollena Redwyne/Tyrell
The LE's: Tywin Lannister, Roose Bolton, Janos Slynt
The NE's: Walder Frey, Khal Drogo, The Night's King (?), Bronn
The CE's: Petyr Baelish, Joffrey Baratheon, Ramsay Snow, Cersei Lannister, Sandor Clegane, Gregor Clegane, the entirety of the Bloody Mummers, Selyse Florent/Baratheon (?)

Grand Lodge

Personally, I end up playing neutral good more often than not. It's easier, it's the least objectionable alignment, and it helps to get along with the party best. Of course, I dabble in other forms of good. Lawful Good is pretty easy for me to pull off, since it's only one step away from what I perceive as my real alignment (LN), and Chaotic Good is a little hard to pull off, unless I'd watched a ton of shonen anime or Iron Man movies recently. I almost never play evil, because I get tired of it too easily, and the neutral alignments are far too nebulous for me.

Grand Lodge

Good evening, gentlefolk.

I come to you with a bit of a conundrum. My friend is going to run a campaign over the summer, you see, and I will be playing a rogue for the first time since...well, years. That said, I haven't got all that much inspiration to draw on, so I beg you for help.

Who do you think is an archetypal rogue? It can be from any source, books, t.v., media, even your own characters if you like. I'm interested in all sorts of opinions so i can draw inspiration. Tell me why you think these characters make good rogues, and if these characters were of your own make, how did you play them? How did they interact with the party? How did NPCs respond to them and how did s/he respond to NPCs?

Grand Lodge

Jandrem wrote:
I find a lot of stuff at deviant art, just search for generic phrases such as "fighter", "wizard", etc. There seems to be an overwhelming amount of WoW fan art, but you can find some good, usable fantasy stuff around it.

Yeah, that's a pretty good suggestion, so long as you keep it just within your game table. Googling "fire mage" or "dwarf" or something also sometimes works.

Grand Lodge

Petty Alchemy wrote:

Drunken Dragon has it, I was describing Jasnah (it seems there's a movie with a similar scenario though, neat to know). Wasn't sure if there was any spoiler element to it. Shallan is a little soft at that point, I think.

My take is, the lawful way of dealing with it would be petitioning for more guards to be posted in the area, since it's known to be unsafe. The chaotic way is to go through it yourself to draw them out.

I'm a little surprised no one else has thought this might be Good, as it has parallels to classic missions like clearing out goblin warrens.

I never considered the classic missions of clearing out goblin warrens as truly good, and have never bought the logic of "killing evil things is a good act." Unless the things you happen to be killing are incapable of free will, killing a creature aborts its potential. Once a life is snuffed, it can never be restored. Ever. That means you have literally neutered all other possible options. You could restrain the creature. Redeem it. Reason with it. But killing someone, especially if you do so actively (as in, not to protect yourself or someone after they've initiated the attack) doesn't truly feel like a good act. I don't know how to explain my exact reasoning, as I have no formal training in moralist philosophy, but I feel, personally, that going out and killing something on your own volition, actively, not in a reactionary or defensive fashion, isn't right. It isn't wrong, but it can never be truly right.

Grand Lodge

I've always liked the idea that the somatic components are dramatic. Not like ninja-esque hand-signs or anything like that, but more like slow-motion martial arts. Or like a conductor leading an orchestra. Except in this case, what you are conducting is not a band but rather the very basic forces of the universe. I imagine, and sometimes describe, the body language intent. If you're casting a fireball, you'd thrust a hand forward in the direction of the attack, a look of wild fury on your features (for fire, like anger, is all-consuming and is often colloquially referred to as "burning").

Of course, I also like the whole "runes around the hands" thing Paizo art draws out, though I imagine the runes not to be a flat disk of magic runes, but rather a long pale stream of letters that slowly revolve around the hands in a snake-like pattern, the color varying caster to caster, and sometimes spell to spell.

I've always toyed with having a character that recites a small poem for their verbal component, like a short haiku or something along those lines. But my creativity is not good enough for me to do this in its entirety, so I've never tried.

Grand Lodge

QuietBrowser wrote:

Now, I know that Character Alignment is a highly subjective affair in D&D. I apologize for writing this, but I just had to get this off of my chest after reading some topics on here about Paladins vs. Lawful Evil settlements or encounters.

I just never understand why Lawful Good vs. Lawful Evil seems to be so hard to figure out. Why? Because of this:

The essence of Lawful Good is "laws are important, in so far as they support, protect or promote goodness". It is not "law equals goodness". That is the essence of Lawful Neutral, where one prizes the letter of the law above all things and does not concern oneself with the morality of the law.

If the above statement can be taken as the essence of Lawful Good, then, the obvious addendum is that "if a law actively harms or oppresses others, or otherwise promotes the cause of evil, then it is a bad law, and should be opposed".

In other words, a Lawful Good character is not obligated by their alignment to obey laws that directly serve or benefit evil. Such laws breach the purpose of law in so far as the Lawful Good alignment recognizes it (to whit, promoting the greater good of the community) and thusly are inherently worthless. Paladins serving gods devoted more to Law may wrestle with it, but ultimately their calling is to be a force for Good, which means they are empowered to ignore laws that purposefully aid or empower Evil.

That said, alignment should be tempered by common sense. A Paladin, or any Lawful Good character, does not walk into the middle of Chelish slavemarket and start attacking the slavers -- not because it breaches their alignment, but because common sense dictates that such an action will not help the cause of good, may result in the innocent being harmed by accident, and almost certainly result in their dying having accomplished nothing.

A Lawful Good character always tries to work so that they promote Good with the minimal amount of social unrest. This means they are very procedural and...

I wholeheartedly agree. Very interesting. I'd also normally put in the addendum that Lawful Good characters usually follow a personal code that keeps them on an honest path, but that's optional. Otherwise, I like your interpretation of the Lawful part of Lawful good being the methodology of the character. I think that's quite insightful, and works very well for Lawful Evil as well (with the obvious exception of a different morality).

Grand Lodge

Most of my characters are attractive, even the ugly ones if that makes ANY sense. I have huge problems with faces, and I actually find it difficult to imagine non-symmetrical features on a face off the top of my head. Sure, I'm prone to trying to play nasty-lookin' buggers, but I find it troublesome to picture them.

I play all sorts. I keep the sexuality limited unless the context demands it (depending on the game). But yeah, literally all sorts. One of these days I fully wanna try playing a character whose sole goal in life is to find a belt of gender swapping so that he/she can fulfill their dream of being formally a member of the opposite sex. That sounds like a fun bit of roleplay right there.

Grand Lodge

Petty Alchemy wrote:

Remembering a scene from a book I've read, a character basically goes looking for trouble in order kill some criminals.

She walks through a rough part of town in her finery, and when some armed thugs try their luck, she dispatches them.

Thinking about this in in-game alignment, what sort of action is this? I'm thinking CG, maybe just CN.

ah, good ol' Jasnah Kholin (I'm guessing). Shallan tackled the issue pretty well, and I'll go with her gut feeling. It's not an evil action, per se, but it certainly isn't a good one. She did this to kill people, and regardless of who those people were, killing is...I don't know, it strikes me as distasteful unless absolutely necessary. As for it's chaotic aspect? Maybe. I mean, it is a vigilante move to assault the men yourself as opposed to just going with the law, but I'd actually argue that the action had a more lawful intent. The men were a disruption of order, a disruption that was not being put right. To go out of your way in order to remove the disruption restores law to the lawless, and therefore, I'd say it's got the teeniest hint of Lawful. So, I'd say Lawful Neutral, but only just.

Grand Lodge

I actually really like tieflings. I think they make a cool class, and tiefling wizards, alchemists, and rogues are super fun to play. Their abilities are...interesting, but not too great. Darkness isn't that great a spell, and elemental resistances don't really help out except in dealing with bad weather (most of the time). Prehensile tail is an awesome power that can be very cleverly used, but i don't think it's overpowered, per se.

As for the roleplay aspect, I've always liked the kin-slaying tiefling as a trope, with them using their unique abilities to hunt down and defeat fiends, since they have minor resistances against basic fiend spells and their immunity to person-based spells means low-level deceptive fiends like succubi have trouble with them. Never been a fan of the "nobody understands me" line of thinking. Sure you have tail and weird red skin. Nightcrawler was blue, and almost everybody likes him (out of universe, at least).

Grand Lodge

Alchemist: I really like the idea of this class. The idea of a class that has a little bit of everything, and uses mad science as a mechanic is very flavorful. That said, it is a very difficult class to play well from what I've seen, as resource management is a must if this class can be played well. Still, very neat take on spellcasting.

Cavalier: Meh. I honestly preferred the 3.5 Knight to this, though my only dislike is for the mount part of this class. Without the reliance on mounted combat I'd love the Cavalier. I like the whole warlord-esque class with teamwork feats and bard-like abilities yet very good combat prowess. That said, I almost never play/see one.

Inquisitor: Oh, this class is super cool. The monster-hunter, the Sherlock Holmes investigator, and the holy knight all wrapped up into one. I like their spellcasting, I like the judgment ability, and I love their minor class abilities like cunning initiative and monster lore. Very well designed.

Oracle: Meh, they're neat. A far better spontaneous divine caster than the Favored Soul was in 3.5, that's for sure. And they have some neat applications. I like the curse mechanic, but honestly, nothing unpredictable.

Summoner: You know, maybe it's because I loved Digimon more than anything as a little kid, but I have a soft spot in my heart for the Summoner. Oh, I know the criticisms. I agree with most of them. Still, the idea of a spellcaster who has his own personal monster which changes and grows stronger as he does, well, that's just too good for me to dislike. Flavor-wise, anyway.

Witch: One of my favorite non-core classes. I love the flavor of this. The hexes. The familiar-spellbook. The mysterious patron that may or may not be responsible for giving you all of your powers. The spell list. It's just perfect. One of my favorite spellcasting classes, and it's fairly well balanced too, unlike the aforementioned Summoner. I'd play a Witch over a Wizard any day (though that's just because I dislike the Wizard).

Gunslinger: I like the flavor of this class, the idea that it gets its class resources by being a badass. That said, it's such a...weak class. Firearms are expensive, and while useful at short range, in my experience they're actually worse in combat than a ranged fighter or a divine hunter paladin. I'm honestly a bit of a disappointment, and am uncertain why this class isn't just a re-work archetype of the Fighter like the Ninja or Samurai classes.

Magus: I've always been fond of the spell-sword classes, and this one has some pretty cool potential. My favorite is the bladebound magus, though I blame Sanderson for this bias towards warriors with bonded, intelligent weapons. That said, it's a solid class, and i have little objection. A little unbalanced near the beginning of the game, but towards the sweet-spot levels where other classes get revving, well, then he just become's fine.

Antipaladin: It's a paladin, but evil. Same opinion as for a paladin, which is, yeah, it's okay.

Ninja: Oh, the ninja is quite cool. Too cool, unfortunately. I like the ninja a lot, but I always find it shameful that the ninja overshadows it's core class. I like the rogue. I don't want it to be rendered obsolete by a flavor-archetype.

Samurai: Much neater than the Cavalier, if only for flavor purposes. But also because the Sword-Saint archetype lets you ditch the mount in exchange for a pretty cool iaijitsu attack.

I have no opinions on the Advanced Class Guide classes, because they haven't been finalized yet. I found none of them impressive or necessary. Unlike the magus, which truly felt unique as a combo-class, all of them seem like clumsy cobblings of other classes, some of them without reason (how many different times do we need to see clerics mixed with martial. Paladin and Inquisitor are good enough. Leave it be). But, I'll keep my mind open when the final version comes out. At the moment, I sort of wish they hadn't tried to combine classes and just tried to make new stuff, like maybe psionics, or perhaps the Pathfinder's take on the Binder, or Dragon Shaman, or Warlock (obviously they can't, because OGL restrictions, but I'd have liked to see their take on these regardless).

Grand Lodge

Meh, it's not too well-balanced a class, and it does create problems especially if the person playing them is not very good at multi-tasking, thus taking up more time. However, I just recommend people use flash-cards for the stats of their summoned dudes, and the rest isn't too bad a problem. Every class has its annoying quirks, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course. I can conceptually understand the vitriol, but I don't see any reason to hate the Summoner.

Grand Lodge

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I'd view that as evil. If you have to subsist off of murder to live, I'd say its evil. Evil is always the easiest path, the most obvious path, the one that takes from others so that you don't have to find alternatives, so that you don't have to suffer. You make other people suffer instead. Neutral would be if you let those people die because you might live. Evil is outright killing them yourself so that you might live. That's just my opinion though, so don't take it particularly to heart.

Grand Lodge

I've always imagined it as the burnished black that you get by singing iron over a fire, as in, not entirely uniform and looking slightly scarred. Dunno.

Grand Lodge


I tried, but something about it felt off to me. It isn't that the rules are...bad...per se. I just personally don't like 'em.

Grand Lodge

A Ninja wrote:

I received my copy of Mythic Realms today (It's awesome) and after reading through the section on the Whispering Tyrant I spotted a funny little passage that got the wheels in my head turning.

** spoiler omitted **

This of course has led me to believe that

** spoiler omitted **

Like all theories there are holes, but I will continue to think on this and see if I can't make it as solid a theory as possible. Let me know what you think and whether or not there are things I should take into consideration.

That might certainly explain why Aroden died. The idea of sacrificing himself to finally defeat an otherwise immortal enemy seems like something the LN Aroden might feel obligated to do.

Grand Lodge

What is the current population of Absalom? is it still around 300,000 as per the booklet published 5 years ago, or have there been significant changes?

Grand Lodge

Noireve wrote:
Um.. aren't Drow CLERICS the highest ranking people in Drow society. After all, they are a matriarical society worshipping a half-mad goddess...

Holy crap, you're totally right (and sorry for the pun). Sorry, I got caught up with the generic racial descriptions as my source for this, and i totally forgot...all..about...drow, actually.

Male drow, though, would probably still value wizards. While sorcerers fit their build and temperament better, the idea of someone scheming and collecting cosmic power, capable of preparing different spells every day so that they can pull an under-used spell in a dangerous situation and watch their enemies squirm seems a very drow thing to do. Though, I'm going off War of the Spider Queen, in which the most memorable characters were wizards and clerics, though the rogue and fighter in that one aren't half bad, the archmage of Menzoberranzan was technically the highest ranking male drow...

Grand Lodge

Ooh. Interesting. Here's what I've got.

Catfolk-rogues or rangers. Makes use of agility and discerns information.
Ratfolk-Rogue. Small and collects lots of trinkets. Seems legitimate.
Goblin-Sorcerer/Alchemist. Because they make FIRE.
Hobgoblin-Cavalier. They lead armies and make great death-generals. The lawful war-mongering fits really well.
Kitsune-Bards. They spread stories and like enchantments and illusions. Bards do both.
Vanaran-Monks. Not sure why, just felt it was appropriate.
Nagaji-Cavalier, specifically of the Order of the Lion to protect naga lords.
Samsaran-Oracle or Monk. Vast repositories of knowledge or people with mastery over mind and body.
Grippli-Ranger, as hunter.
Drow-Wizard. Holders of unlimited power and knowledge. Easiest class to abuse and gain unlimited power in.
Wayang-Sorcerer. They are the only class I can think of that has access to some shadowy powers. Specifically of that bloodline.
Kobold-Sorcerer, specifically of the draconic bloodline

That's about all I got for now.

Grand Lodge

Meh. If I ever actually get a chance to DM a game in Golarion, I'd rewrite mythic rules until they're just an updated version of the old 3.0 epic rules. I dunno, the idea of anyone below level 20, for any reason, being capable of rolling a 60 or something ON THEIR OWN POWER on a die roll is a little much for me.

Beyond that, I don't so much make changes as stylistic choices in how people behave and act. For one thing, I'd usually represent the Pathfinder Society a little more light-heartedly than the questionably true neutral organization it really is.

Other than that, I haven't changed much, if anything, in my written plans in case I ever do this. Oh, no, wait. I changed it so ratfolk can actually live a human lifespan. Spice to taste :)

Grand Lodge

Zorajit Zorajit wrote:

This will probably be my last post here, because I think everything that has been said has already been discussed. If you're having a good time in your game, I'm thrilled for you, too many gamers don't have the opportunity. Everyone has their own style, and probably has as many or more thoughts on what an ideal game would be. The rough consensus is that the GM has a greater duty to accommodate the players, than the player has to accommodate the GM. I.E. We talk about railroading, and GMs that shouldn't insist on core characters; but the language doesn't exist for a player that wrenches a campaign to fit their character; it's the GMs responsibility to include that character and make the game interesting for them.

The player at my table that asked to play a minotaur has now also asked to be a half dragon minotaur, meaning that the table now has two half dragons, (the other being a Vanara), and a chatoic good half-drow dual wielding bloodbending magus with a pyrokinetic catgirl cohort, and several other undecided characters. This is not the sort of party I'm comfortable with and have decided to change the campaign to be more accommodating. I recognize that this is exactly what I did not want to do, so, I'm sorry, but this experiment has failed. If I was a better DM, my home setting would be able to seamlessly integrate these characters and the rest of the party together, but I don't think I'm good enough to make that work.

I wouldn't describe my preferred style as "grim and gritty." It's certainly less spectrum spanning than Golarion, but its very far from GRIMDARKness. But, I can't rectify the hard scrabble characters and settings I enjoy with the demigods my players want. They won't be having fun playing sellswords and tomb robbers that are lucky to get home to the pub for a pint. I feel that I'm in the wrong here, I'm the "No Fun Allowed" guy that can't see the joy in being super awesome.

Thank you all for the input, and happy gaming!

Oh...oh my. See, I thought they just wanted to go non-core races. I didn't know they wanted to go...that...far. Um...forget what I said before, if i were a DM, I'd be fairly uncomfortable with that, considering that of all the options thus decided only the half-drow is technically playable as a PC. The half-dragon template is...definitely not for players. IMO. I'm sorry man, this is one of those circumstances that I draw the line and explain issues of balance. In this case, I apologize for making it appear that blame lies in you. It doesn't. While much of the job does rely on the GM, if you aren't comfortable doing something, then don't do it. If our points have failed to satisfy you with exotic races, that's perfectly fine too. It doesn't mean you're not fun. And while I personally wouldn't deny exotic races (though I would, again, draw the line at two half-dragons...), at the end of the day, the GM still has veto power. Good luck with your campaign. Hope things work out for you in the end. Happy Gaming.

Grand Lodge

Meh, I guess they just wanted to make prestige classes prestigious. Like others have already stated, Paizo prefers a prestige class to be a fluff addition to express affiliation for a certain organization or due to a performance of some unusual deed. And I fully support that. I liked some of the PrCs in the end there were half of a thousand and half of them were jut copy-paste versions of each other. I always cringed back in 3.5 when your class just didn't have that oomph unless you went PrC or multiclassed. I prefer paizo's way a bit. Archetypes are solid and their base classes are well-rounded. I like that you can stay a single class for 20 levels and still be just as good as the guy who went Eldritch Knight.

Just my two copper pieces, I guess.

Grand Lodge

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I hate playing wizards. I've always been and always will be a sorcerer man, and I'd be willing to play a witch cause they awesome fluff.

I have no problems with monks or fighters or rogues at all. In fact, while I don't like playing them because I prefer the flare of magic, but I'd play, say, a barbarian in a heartbeat if given cool enough fluff to work with.

I don't like ninjas more than rogues. The only difference I see between the is fluff. When i want to play Durzo Blint, I pull out a ninja. When I want to play Gonff the Mousethief, I pick up a rogue. Mechanics has nothing to do with it.

I love the summoner unabashedly, and would make any concessions the DM asked me to make to play what is essentially a Digidestined.

I like blasting spells. I enjoy Web and Glitterdust and summon spells and whatnot, but they just don't have the same oomph as melting someone's face with an empowered scorching ray...

I don't like how some of the APs run, and have abandoned them besides their miscellaneous articles as a result.

I have no problems with overuse of exotic races, and have no problems with my players using them.

Grand Lodge

Look in Ultimate Equipment. There's a sort of light armor called a haramaki, or the armored kilt from Adventurer's Armory. Both confer and armor bonus that can be increased via enchantment, but since they lack both an armor check penalty and an arcane failure chance, they can be worn without any problems by sorcerers. My personal preference here is the silken ceremonial armor for this. Same benefit without having to walk around wearing a utilikilt or looking like Oorochimaru...

Though personally, I'd pick up a wand of lesser extend metamagic and cast mage armor at the beginning of the day. Boom. 12 hours with an AC bonus of +4. Toss in Shield for another +4 bonus temporarily (you could also extend that for long combats if you wanted).

As for other equipment, pick up a handy haversack for sure. They are one of my favorite items by far, since it greatly reduces the weight you have to lug. Weapons option, but a wand of scorching ray isn't too expensive, and 50 casting of a 4d6 ray attack beats a heavy crossbow in everything but price. Other wands are also cool. Past that, anything you want really works.

Grand Lodge

137ben wrote:
Adamantine Dragon wrote:
One of the most fundamental assumptions of virtually every fantasy game, novel, movie or video game is that there are evil sentient races. If a campaign world follows that model and the orcs in that campaign world are truly evil monsters, is it still "prejudice" to hate them?

Not mortal races. Fiends, yes. Undead, maybe, but not always. Normal, mortal races are most definitely not always evil in spelljammer or Eberron. And other fantasy settings. It is an assumption in some fantasy settings, but certainly not all.

In many settings, there are evil mortal races, but they are evil largely because of culture (evil isn't somehow inherent in their biology, except in the case of evil-aligned outsiders).
In that case, I would say yes, it is extremely prejudice, and borders on racism, to hold prejudice against individuals of those species, especially if they are encountered outside their race's homeland. If I encountered someone who was Russian in the U.S. or western Europe during the cold war, I wouldn't assume they were opposed to democracy just because their native country was (in fact, I would probably assume the opposite, because they left). To use an example from the game, in Golarion, if I encountered someone from Cheliax in Absalom, I would not assume they were Lawful Evil just because the government of their home country (which they left, potentially willingly, possibly BECAUSE they weren't LE) was. A drow or orc in human lands should be treated the same way. Again, a drow in human lands willingly left the evil civilization they grew up in (or were raised by another species, and hence were never part of the evil society in the first place). If anything, that's a reason to assume they are good.

Though they could have been exiled or acting as a spy. Just saying. If I were exiled by a country and i were a bitter person, I'd go to that country's enemy and blurt all of the secrets i know out to anyone who'll listen. That won't make this hypothetical me higher north on the alignment axis than the rest of my kind. The distrust exists precisely because of this. Because it's a sign of that "bad" culture creeping in and taking root. And yes, i agree with you that it is indeed prejudice to make that assumption, but take fear and add ignorance and you have quite the bubbling brew...

Grand Lodge

We were playing a 4th edition game recently, and our paladin kept forgetting he could use a challenge ability once per round. In response, our DM tore off some notebook paper and wrote the word: CHALLENGE in big bolded pencil lines and gave it to him to have in front of him whenever he looked down at his character sheet. Not only did this help him remember until eventually he didn't need it anymore, but it culminated in one of the best spider-deaths ever.

Spider crawls across the table, he takes the little bit of paper, places it over the spider, yells Challenge! at the top of his lungs and smashed the thing to bits. We were in tears for a full five minutes from laughing.

My point is, if you have a certain effect or whatever that you need to remember, write it i big bold letters. Say, for instance, that the dwarf constantly forgets his Hatred racial trait. Put a little pieces of paper over his character sheet that says "goblins suck." Eventually, he'll get it. Bring flashcards. Gods but i found those helpful. If you're a wizard or cleric make flashcards of your spells and turn them over or put them underneath your character sheet once you've cast them. High-light them for spell level and relevance and occasionally flip through them when there's a moment to spare, like waiting for someone else's turn to resolve when you can't help him anyway. Combat moves pretty fast after a while.

Grand Lodge

claymade wrote:

In our current (about to go into hiatus) campaign it's just core races (we started out core-only, and added books in as the GM started to feel more comfortable). But now, in our next campaign, we haven't even decided on classes yet... but for races, we're tossing around the idea of doing something like: Ifrit, Oread, Slyph, Undine, Aasimar.

Not for mechanical advantages, or because we want to use character stereotypes in our RP, or because we want to be "special snowflakes" from each other... but because we thought it would be cool to do a "themed" group where the overall story-concept is the whole "bringing together all the elements" sort of thing.

And maaaaaaybe even asking the GM if we can have a special, extra-powerful summon spell that, instead of one person taking a 1-round action, only works when we all take 1-round actions at the same time to pull it off.

Oread: "EARTH!!!"

Ifrit: "FIRE!!!"

Slyph: "WIND!!!"

Undine: "WATER!!!"

Aasimar: "HEART!!!"

Summoned Creature: "By your powers combined..."

...yeah, this one's looking to be a much less serious campaign than our current one.

That is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, and precisely what I was talking about. If your GM lets you do it...that'd be sweet. Summon aspect of nature in tights, go!

Grand Lodge

Thank you for all of the help. I'll definitely take all of that under advisement, and see which works best.

Grand Lodge

If you could be any of Golarion's player races, which one would you be? if human, where would you hail from?

Similarly, if you actually lived on Golarion, where would you settle down?

Finally, and only tangentially relevantly, what is your favorite familiar, if any?

Grand Lodge


What's it like communicating with Daji? I've heard certain spellcasters can speak with their familiars as if they had a common language. Do the two of you, and if so, what is it like? What sort of personality does he have?

Also, what in your opinion was the most interesting conversation you've ever had with another iconic?

Grand Lodge

Hail. I hope it's all right if I ask multiple questions.

Have you ever met Reiko? If so, what did you think of her? Do you get along? Are you rivals?

I've also heard that Imrijka can be quite the jokester. Are there any of those golden moments that spring most readily to mind?

Grand Lodge

I try to keep my prejudice to realistic situations and places. For instance, say that one town is on the border of a nation like, say, Cheliax. If a tiefling wandered into town, he'd probably get spat on and stared at if not outright lynched, depending on whether or not the town had the sort of charismatic enough bully to get people riled into a mob (I sometimes pull this in "investigation" adventures, when the PCs are considered prime suspects for a crime due to ethnicity or nationality or species, and must smooth things over Atticus Finch style). Now, conversely, if i have a town near a major thoroughfare that isn't currently at war or in the midst of political or cultural tensions, they might give the tiefling funny looks, but more because he's an adventurer, and adventurers of all flavors stink of trouble like a freshly-washed ferret.

But, in general, prejudice helps establish possible bits of evidence and world-building. This town dislikes ratfolk. Okay, fact. If this is so, there must be a reason. Hopefully, putting this in there will prompt PCs to ask around, if for no other reason than to keep their ratfolk party member from getting egged on the street. It provides a conflict, and flavors the surroundings, and establishes what people in the area consider pure and wholesome, and what they revile.

Just plain old world-spanning hatred of a thing, though? i save that for drow, who antagonize EVERYBODY, even each other. Other than that, I've never seen a reason to make someone universaly despised. That's just silly.

Grand Lodge

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I dunno guys, it really seems rather simple in my head. A lot of you guys raised good points, and hell, I've been guilty of picking a race just to garner attention or just because I needed a crutch for roleplaying. Yes, sometimes I get lazy, or didn't have the time to prepare anything else, or just because I wanted to try something different. However, and here's the however, at the end of the day, when I reach for the Advanced Race Guide nowadays, I don't look at the stats so much, unless they're annoyingly crippling (which is why I don't ply kobolds or drow, for instance, as I don't want to wear snow-goggles ll day to avoid being dazzled by sunlight), I look to see what looks cool and interesting.

Something about a big green guy with tusks dressed in the garb of a buddhist monk and speaking quietly and peacefully despite his monstrous appearance is a cool idea. I run with it. The idea of a seductress who can change her shape into a fox-like creature and borrows heavily from old Japanese fairy tails of kitsune (find and seduce men in power, get far up in the court, and flee when revealed to be a shapeshifter and a liar) might intrigue me. Or perhaps I just dug out my old Brian Jacques books and thought: "huh, I wonder if I could pull off Martin the warrior. I'll be a ratfolk fighter or paladin and go from there." Honestly, I pick these races because they're cool.

I can get some good ideas from them that I just can't from humans sometimes. And sometimes humans are right for the job as well. Sometimes I want to be like Samuel Vimes, and be a man out of his depth trying to navigate through the politics of creatures fundamentally different than me to get to the bottom of a breech in the law, and I need an anchor of normality for that to work (which humans are great for). Or if I want to be like Simon the Digger and extol the virtues of never giving in, the endless march forward against all odds and sometimes against common sense itself. I'd go human here, because that idea is coolest from the perspective of a species which is short-lived, adaptable, and never says never.

My point is, yes, some people do it to power game. Yes, some do it to stand out or as a crutch to roleplay. But the fact of the matter is, there is a world of opportunity that exists among the more bizarre races, more characters and traits just ready to be used that just wouldn't be as cool if they weren't a particular race. Some of these ideas just can't be achieved with the core. They can be approximated, but why bother approximating when you can, legally in game terms, achieve the same thing by being a ratfolk or a goblin or what have you? That, I think, is the virtue of the exotic race: a chance to try something new and exciting, a chance to play something inspired by a work that doesn't use humans, and, at the end of the day, because the idea of this race with this class looks really cool in your head and you want to give it a go. Or maybe you just like that race. There's nothing wrong with that. And to deny players that choice might, just might, deny them the opportunity to give that neat idea life.

I dunno. Just my two coppers, so to speak. Carry on, fine people, carry on.

Grand Lodge

Roll with it man. I mean, you could retire him. Then again, you could milk it for all its worth. Go full Miko Miyazaki on this. Become fully convinced that your loss of power is a "test of faith" and make leaps of logic to demonstrate how right you are. Go into full battle with anything and everything that may or may not be evil, based on nothing but your same broken logic. And eventually, do it long enough, and even tough you won't return to paladin status, you'll go anti paladin after a full roleplay arc.

OOOOOOOOOORRRRRRR sit down and talk to your GM and work out a fair compromise. Instead of using simple RAW to get you atonement, have him go through a character arc, a literal quest for atonement. I've always felt, personally, that having a spell guiding that process is a little like the magical equivalent of granting indulgences. Gods have the power to bless and curse people directly in most D&D. See if you can get your GM to agree that if you create a great act of faith and penance, if you God can't intervene directly and grant you your powers again.

Grand Lodge

I'm thinking of running this AP for 6 players as opposed to 4. Any recommendations for adjustment?

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