The Diplomat's page

Jim Zub wrote:

The_Minstrel_Wyrm wrote:

in future story arcs are you going to "play" with other iconics, or use the same "main" cast throughout with "special guest star(s)" peppered in here and there?

Paizo has asked me to stick with the 6 iconics we have in the party for now so we can develop their personalities and histories more fully, but I'd like to include more of the other iconics later on, as guest stars or as regular cast members, as the series continues. Fingers crossed.

Dang thats actually quite disapointing was hoping to see more Lini soon. Cant say I'm that huge of a fan of the current 6 and would have been nice to get a bit more veriaty in.

Here's hoping to see Lem and Alain in future issues. Perhaps a bit if Alain vs Merisiel rivalry going on ...

Reordering aside, it's been a blast of a series. Looking forward to the next set of instalments.

BTW, Jim, you mentioned that the series took the game rules seriously. What level are the characters at the end?

When I say Taldor, what I'm really after is an intrigue/espionage-style campaign.

If I did a Human Abadarian Cleric with a crossbow, which feats and domains/subdomains would be best?

I agree with your sentiment, Quandary. I do not think every aspect of a character's in-game knowledge need necessarily be tied to the Knowledge Skills.

For example, in the Crusader Kingdom of Mendev, it is doubtful that too many of the commoners have Knowledge: Planes, but almost every man, woman and child darn well knows what Demons are, and of the dangers that Demons pose. However, they may know nothing about Divs, Oni or Daemons, or anything of the outer planes in general. They may even confuse such creatures with Demons if ever they encountered them.

The only time I would ever bring something like Knowledge: Planes into the picture is (1) the players know absolutely nothing about Demons, because they may be from a land where such malevolent outsiders have never frequented and they thus have to turn to their academic knowledge to glean any information about them, or (2) they are trying to determine that specific outsider's powers and vulnerabilities.

If you're playing RAW, for a "common monster" the DC is 5+CR. This would be the applicable knowledge check for a Mendev local about demons, although why you'd need to make a knowledge check for a random NPC I don't know.

If the PC character was born in Mendev, sure, I'd allow a Knowledge (Planes) check DC5+CR.

IT occurred to me the higher CR an outsider is, the more outsidery he looks. It's it harder for me to recognize a Balor as a Demon not to trifle with than it is to recognize a much lower CR demon like... a babu? I mean the both look pretty demonic to me... I got know sumthin is up!

Knowledge checks aren't about how something looks, they're about how much the character knows about that thing without necessarily having encountered it previously. The fact is, more planar research has probably been done with babus than with balors, therefore the character is more likely to have heard something about babus from expert fiend summoners than about balors. Information about balors is going to be scarce, particularly since the experts that summon them to ask questions are likely to vanish before they can pass on their knowledge ...

you're discussing a DC to be reminded of bad actions it might take. but if those actions (vengeance) aren't unique to the creature, why is the creature's CR invoked?

Because while the GM might know that such actions aren't unique to the creature but might be a property of all fiends, it can't be assumed that the player/character doesn't. If the player failed the roll for the particular creature but would have passed the roll for a different fiend of the same type, and you're feeling nice, you could say "you know that if you'd been summoning a Lemure he'd be pretty pissed off with you and seek vengence. You don't know enough about this Pit Fiend to know what his reaction might be."

But the fact is, if the very first time they summon a devil they decide to summon a Pit Fiend, they probably deserve whatever consequences they get.

Which would be more fun to play: a cleric of Abadar or a halfling crossbow sniper?

Why would the DC be dependent on the creature summoned, if the relevant consequences might be apply with creatures of lower CR?

RAW

Indeed, and it would probably behoove a GM to remind those players who simply focus on the mechanics of the game and spells that they are playing an RPG in a Fantasy story setting, and not in a fantasy video game. Just because not every last iota of information is described in the mechanics of the spell does not mean there cannot be more dire consequences within the story's plot for having cast it.

I'd ask for a Knowledge(Planes) check (DC 10 + CR of summoned creature) before I gave this reminder. If they fail they can find out the hard way. Mwah ha ha.

Thanks for the response. JJ's already given his response in a different forum and it's basically the same.

Intimidate 1d20 + 14 ⇒ (14) + 14 = 28

How would a character with the Inevitable Subdomain feel about a fellow party member being raised from the dead? If such a character died, would they allow themselves to be raised in order to complete an adventure, or would they outright refuse to have anything to do with resurection?

I agree that the final interpretation of the code should be decided in each game between the pally and the DM. Any code written in hyperbole is going to have room for interpretation and as long as the player shows they have put serious thought into what there code means i'm not going to fault them for any reasonable conclusions they draw. I think the code can be limited to only needing to destroy Rovagug's minions but it doesn't need to be read that narrowly.

I think this might be a good in-game discussion. While sitting around a campfire, the paladin might express his concern to the wizard for summoning fiends in that last battle the party narrowly escaped. The rogue, who has ranks in Profession (Lawyer), asks for a copy of the code and asks the wizard to pay him for representation, etc.

Your talking about a normal pally that has taken the oath against fiends and indeed you may be right. The code of Sarenrae operates differently. The oath of fiends doesn't supersede a god's code it adds another element to it. If the Pally was required by there god to kill devils on sight they wouldn't now be required to do less because they took the oath.

I totally agree, the additional code should supplement the deity code. However, the deity code says nothing about evil outsiders, it only mentions followers of Rovagug.

The codes in Faith's of Purity aren't always the clearest things in the world so it is possible to interpret them as you do but I think the path a pally is more likely to choose is striking down a Daemon's and other evil outsiders.

Where there's an ambiguity in a code, the usual way to deal with it is to give advantage to the signatuary of the code, in which case it is the individual paladin's discression as to how they interpret it. I actually believe this argument ought to be happing in-character during a game rather than out-of-character on a message board. If you can agree to that I'll be satisfied.

And is is just me or if you where in the heat of battle and not meta gaming(knowing what spell your caster was casting) and Daemon showed up across from you(and you recognized it for what it was) your first instinct wouldn't be to smite it with extreme prejudice.

In the heat of battle your first instinct would be to deal with the immediate threat. You'd be unlikely to cross the battlefield to take down a daemon if there was a horde of orcs attacking you right now.

Also, would you attack a daemon with extreme prejudice? Even a Paladin that has taken an Oath Against Fiends is only required to attack a daemon if they believe they have a reasonable chance of winning (Ultimate Magic p61). A paladin who hasn't taken such an oath would still have the freedom to make a prudential judgement - is this being posing threat to me and mine?

How would a character with the Inevitable Subdomain feel about a fellow party member being raised from the dead? Would such a character allow themselves to be raised to complete an adventure or would they outright refuse?

I completely forgot about black powder inquisitor!

I'd suggest Black Powder Inquisitor of Asmodeus going into Hellknight.

How does armour effect a character with a base movement of 40'? Can't find anything in the CRB.

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Whoops, got the times wrong.

So the question changes to:

4x25min serials vs. 45min self-contained episodes vs. 90min self-contained episodes - discuss

4x30min serials vs. 45min self-contained episodes - discuss

James Jacob has confirmed that more information will be released in Wrath of the Righteous.

Are there any more arguments from the "don't tolerate" crowd?

Will the back matter in this AP reveal a lot about the various groups that make up the Mendev Crusades, as well as the internal workings of the Church of Iomedae?

If a regular paladin is 'obliged' to strike down evil outsiders, then the idea of an Oathbound Paladin (Ultimate Magic p60-63) makes no sense.
A paladin who has taken an Oath against Fiends is required to strike down evil outsiders on sight. A paladin who hasn't taken an Oath against Fiends has the freedom to apply their own discretion. This oath is listed as being an option for paladins of Sarenrae.

We actually have a meeting planned for this to decide which way we should go with it. Once we have figured out what is the best route to take, we will certainly let you know.

I'm a loyal PFS player and, personally, I have no qualms about whether the Society is "likeable" or not. It is what it is. People who play Warhammer 40k don't ask "is the Imperium of Mankind nice," they just get on with the game.

There are some very vague details in Faith of Purity and The Worldwound Gambit. I suspect more details will be revealed with the Wrath of the Righteous Adventure Path, which, I'm lead to understand, is going to be about the Mendev Crusades. I'm as curious as you to find out more.

You really need to look at the Hellknight prestige class in the Inner Sea World Guide. He is exactly what you need.

Wisdom is about prudence and affective maturity. It effects perception because perception isn't just about your ability to notice things, but also about your ability to judge whether something is worth noticing or not. And it effects Will saves because your affective maturity is a factor in being able to withstand mental assault.
Anyway, game abilities aren't supposed to be a direct correlation to real life - they are supposed to make a game that is fun to play. And I think we've gone way of thread with this discussion.

@The_Diplomat: What skill opposes Intimidate? As I think I would need every Feat, Rank, and bonus for that skill. Especially since I was in a situation like that and just got in the Celeb's Face and said "So?" to this day he runs away from me.

According to Core Rulebook p99, Intimidate is opposed by a DC of 10 + HD + WIS modifier. There is no opposing skill check or save. If used in combat and the Intimidate check makes the DC, the target is shaken for one round. For every 5 points the check exceeds the DC by, the target is shaken for an additional round.

My Half-Orc Inquisitor has Intimidate maxed out and uses this feature a lot.

I will redeem the ignorant with my words and my actions. If they will not turn toward the light, I will

redeem them by the sword.

From my reading of this, I would be asking the questions - how many rounds is a reasonable amount of time to be spent redeeming with words? How long does a summoning spell last?

Whether the evil outsider is "pure evil" or not is besides the point. The point is whether the paladin sees them as an immediate threat to the innocent. If so, sure, slaughter time. If not, I think it would be reasonable for the paladin to attempt to verbally redeem the outsider ... perhaps this particular paladin is ignorant of the fact that such creatures cannot be redeemed?

If I were GMing I think I would accept either course of action as keeping to the Code. While the Code enforces a certain level of uniformity amoung all paladins of a particular deity, there is also a degree of individuality that has to be allowed too. I can easily see two paladins of Sarenrae having a theological argument over this point in-character, while both remain true to the same Code.

Hey there James, got a question for you. Do you happen to know why a scythe has a x4 critical multiplier? What makes having a farm tool hit a vital area more deadly than say the 4 foot hunk of steel that is the greatsword?

Because it severs your soul from your body. That's why it's Death's prefered weapon.

My hope would be in the next week or so.

Fantastic! I'll hold of printing these until they're updated. If they're anything like the Townsfolk I'll be most pleased!

First, why on Earth is a Cleric of Sarenrae associating with people who would summon Daemons, the most hated, untrustworthy, and straight-up evil outsiders of them all (in my opinion)?

Like your goddess, you are open and friendly with worshipers of other faiths—even many of the evil ones. Unless someone has shown himself to be irretrievably evil, your faith demands that you treat him with the kindness you would show to anyone who had lost his way ... Only the followers of Rovagug are denied a chance at salvation.

The Paladin Code (p26-27) doesn't specify slaughtering anything except followers of Rovagug.

John Kretzer wrote:

4) Will there ever be a adventure path centered around the Sun Orcid Elixir auction? Or perhaps a high level module?

4) It's a great topic for both. Maybe some day.

I think this would be a great idea for a sequal to Price of Immortality. Is there any chance this might happen?

Charisma is also the "pretty factor". Personally I think a negative Cha bonus should be applied to INCREASING Intimidate instead of lessening it. Or at least allow Strength to be applied to Intimidation instead of Charisma, without having to use up a feat.

Charisma has nothing to do with physical appearance. It is based on the character's ability to project their personality. How does it apply to Intimidate? Imagine being in a room with your favourite high-profile celebrity pop star / politician / business mogul / what-have-you. They are in the room exuding charisma and have captured everyone's attention. Now imagine that celebrity is pissed off. They ignore everyone else and concentrate their wrath on you. That twisted, sinking feeling in your gut? That's Intimidate.

I have updated everything except the bestiary.

Cheers! Do you know when the Bestiary might be done?

If you guys are interested, here's the idea my player provided me:

We're doing Skull & Shackles and he wants to play a doctor-type character who relies on surgeries (and suggested being able to use the "treat injury" skill from D20 modern, maybe as a feat). I think he wanted Cleric because of a couple domain choices that were available. He said he wouldn't use cure spells, though and that he was really interested in playing an off-beat character who isn't designed for being a killing machine, as he always likes to Min/Max in 3.5

There are a few different non-Cleric healer options in Pathfinder. The Chiurgeon (Alchemist) that Alliriyallin mentioned might be closest to what your player wants.

Other options include an Inquisitor with the Healing domain, Hospitaler (Paladin - although this requires a chosen deity too), Monk of the Healing Hand, Songhealer (Bard), and Hedge Witch. A Sorcerer with the Celestial bloodline could also be made to work in a pinch.

Thank you for the quick reply. I guess we'll have to improvise for the convention, and check back around April ....

I've seen a few hobby shops around Sydney that still have this item on shelf. Maybe if you shop around a bit in your local area you can find a shop with some old stock.

My game changer was investing in a fine point marker. Now I've divided each PC name magnet into quadrents. Top-left quadrent for the character name, bottom-left for initiative modifier, the top-right quadrent I write the acronyms "AC, FF, T", (AC, flat-footed, touch), and bottom-left I write the relevant stats. Now I don't have to keep asking my players if a particular roll hits them or not. Greatly speeds up combat.

My review is up. By the way, I'm good with the round bases. They take a bit more effort than squares might, but they are more aesthetically pleasing.

There are many RW religions that lack deities, like Taoism or Buddhism (technically). There are organized religions like Shinto, which while having some major dieties they are also effectively animistic. And all of these faiths have more clerics/monks 'class wise' then they do Oracles.

If I can add but a drop to the wisdom of the campaign setting guru, I think you are getting too fixated on the cleric class, as opposed to designing the fluff of the character you want first and then looking at different ways to build that.

Besides the fact that the RW analogy falls apart when you breath gently on it (can you really say there is a "class" equivalency between a Brahmin, a Catholic priest, a Protestant minister, a Shinto priest, and a rabbi, other than at a very superficial level?) in Golarion a "priest" doesn't equate to levels in cleric. For example, Faiths of Balance mentions that senior priests in the Church of Nethys can be high levels wizards with no levels of cleric. If one of my players built a druid who called themselves a priest of the Green Faith, I'd have no problem with that. A rogue could probably pass themselves off as a priest of Desna. Cleric is just one of many classes that could all fulfil a particular function.
At the end of the day a Golarion cleric has about as much in common with a RW cleric as a Golarion bard has in common with a RW bard.

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I'd thought as much! Thanks for the reply. If I can get my players to invest enough time to SEE a rune giant... well, I figure wizkids can have some of my money at that point. :P

I have the WizKids Rune Giant and it is awesome. However, if you still want to go on the cheep, there is a rune giant paper mini in the Paper Minis RotRL Bestiary.

If I were doing it, (like in a home game) I'd have give some of the philosophies (Green Faith, Whispering Way etc) specific domains, but I'd only do it if someone came up to me asked to run say, a Green Faith Cleric.

As per what James said above, I'd just suggest that an oracle might be more appropriate to their play style. And considering the sheer number of archetypes that are available for play at the moment, I'm sure they could find a suitable match.

Is there a specific reason you'd want to play cleric without a deity? Because I'm sure you could find a different class/archetype that achieves that you're hoping to achieve.

Has this product been updated for the Anniversary Edition?

I just downloaded these. The res looks amazing considering how small they are. I'll post a review once I've assembled a few.

I made the paper minis for the Runelord AP and I'm in the process of updating all the sets to the Anniversary edition as many monsters/NPCs were added or changed. So the paper mini sets should have everything you need!

Hey Jack, great job on the papers! Can you let us know which sets you've already updated and which are still pending?

Best way I've found to learn the game: join your local Pathfinder Society lodge and play as many games as you're able. The people are friendly and very helpful when you don't know stuff, and there is always someone who can answer your questions.

I've been able to do so by gluing the paper onto a piece of (rather thin) cardboard before I cut out and fold the figures.

Do you know the thickness of the cardstock you're using?

And if you use Pathfinder Paper Minis then you are completely covered. Though you have to print and put together yourself.

• I currently have the Battles case bundle. Might get a few singles to supplement as needed.
• Have the Bestiary Box.
• Am planning to get a single copy of the RotRL Pawns before the game.
• I'm currently seriously considering getting the Townsfolk paper minis.

I don't really want to spend a great deal of time cutting, folding, and gluing, but I can probably deal with a single set of papers. I assume this would get me pretty close to a full set?

(I think that the Townsfolk set would be a good set to print as pawns. I, for one, would not be too fussed that the art style is different.)