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So for a casual game I have been ludicrously richly endowed by my GM: - I can research existing metamagic or make my own metamagic for 5k
You may have seen this Arcane Thesis fireball wielding wizard in another thread. At first, I was scared of out-damaging the entire party; however thanks to that thread, I'm stoked about the possibilities of turning fireball into less of a damage spell, and more of a control spell. Metamagic I intend to use a lot:
Dazing
Beyond those metamagic, I have the flexibility to research my own and already have one approved by my GM. (Actually, it's 2 metamagic for the price 1!) These two feats give me low damage, highly versatile fireballs across the battlefield. Imagine combining Break/Lingering/Rime/Extend together! Imagine littering the battlefield with 8 2x2 squares that last for 2 rounds, can do minor damage and entangle creatures for 3 rounds, and do the same to those who enter those squares later. Break Spell:
Benefit: You may apply this metamagic only to a fireball spell: You can break a spell, as if casting a weaker version multiple times. A creature does not take any additional damage or suffer any effects beyond the first effect if an area is hit by more than one part of the Break Spell. This feat has two modes: Break - Break Spell splits into 2 mini spells or 4 micro spells of this spell. A Break Spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than it's actual level. Big Break - Big Break Spell splits into 4 mini spells or 8 micro spells of this spell. A Big Break Spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than it's actual level. These mini and micro spells are as described in Micro/Mini Spell, except are treated as a 3rd level spells and have a range of long. Micro/Mini Spell:
Benefit: You may apply either form of this metamagic only to a fireball spell: A micro spell is treated as a 1st level spell for all purposes, has a reduced range of close, a reduced radius of 5ft, and all variable damage becomes the minimum amount. (Ex. 6d6 becomes 6 damage) A micro spell uses up a spell slot two levels than the spell’s actual level. A mini spell is treated as a 2nd level spell for all purposes, has a reduced range of medium, a reduced radius of 10ft, and all variable damage becomes 2. (Ex. 7d6 becomes 14 damage) A mini spell uses up a spell slot one level lower than the spell’s actual level. Special: Micro/mini spell is not treated as a metamagic for the purpose of abilties that would reduce a spell’s slot when metamagic is applied, such as Magical Lineage. Anyway, my goal right now is to create some spell-like metamagic. What does that mean? Researching metamagic (many that would branch off of lingering spell) that would make fireball immitate different kinds of spells, such as: Wind Wall
The idea is to turn fireball into battlefield control and debuffing. So, suggestions on developing some fun and balanced homebrew spell-like metamagic that I could apply to fireball? (Or frost/shocking/corrosive ball if that better suits the flavor of the metamagic?)
Barbarians are rather feat starved and have a lot of interesting feats they can take, especially with Extra Rage Power. However, an interesting opportunity opened up with some homebrew rules; first, there are a select few feats that can be trained instead of taken, for a price, such as: Dodge (5k)
I've also been permitted to have a campaign trait that gives me +1 to ac when fighting defensively. So... If I do buy those 3 feats and take that trait, I could get DR/- 10 with 4 feats: Diehard
Fighting defensively:
Enough to get DR/- 10, which stacks with the DR gained from being an Invulnerable Rager. Examples on what I'm missing:
Trait:
Feats:
There's also some timing benefits to skipping these feats, since I'm taking Improved Stalwart at level 11 instead of Dazing Assault So do I pounce on this opportunity like a greater beast totem Barbarian? Or do I find less resource intensive ways to power up my character?
Well, uh, we can sell loot at market price, so we usually just do that, split the gold evenly and buy what we want. ~.~ Yeah, I know; we're doing it wrong/loot is never exciting/we broke the game/whatever. It's worked for our group. The GM doesn't need to carefully plan out magic items according to the players' needs, so that's one less burden for the GM to carry. We also never have any disputes on who gets what. We just divide it evenly and shamelessly spend our GP on whatever items we'd like to have. I am the bookkeeper, by the way. So no running tabs, but I still have to valuate all the loot. Oh, we also don't really appraise or use identify. We're just given the value of all loot. (Unless it's directly related to plot; like we could sell this rare item to one of two different buyers who desperately want it.) Finally, our items don't need a story; we're the story. If we want to make some big deal about a magical item, I guess we could and it has happened before. (Acquired an intelligent item in the very first campaign we played) But generally speaking, it's beside the point and only occasionally needs to be a point of focus. Let's get our characters leveled up, slap on our big six, and get back to enjoying the story and each other.
Alright, a homebrew feat with a subfeat have been developed! I can get both for 5k. Break Spell:
Benefit: You may apply this metamagic only to a fireball spell: You can break a spell, as if casting a weaker version multiple times. A creature does not take any additional damage or suffer any effects beyond the first effect if an area is hit by more than one part of the Break Spell. This feat has two modes: Break - Break Spell splits into 2 mini spells or 6 micro spells of this spell. A Break Spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than it's actual level. Big Break - Big Break Spell splits into 4 mini spells or 12 micro spells of this spell. A Big Break Spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than it's actual level. These mini and micro spells are as described in Micro/Mini Spell, except are treated as a 3rd level spells and have a range of long.
Micro/Mini Spell:
Benefit: You may apply either form of this metamagic only to a fireball spell: A micro spell is treated as a 1st level spell for all purposes, has a reduced range of close, a reduced radius of 5ft, and all variable damage becomes the minimum amount. (Ex. 6d6 becomes 6 damage) A micro spell uses up a spell slot two levels than the spell’s actual level. A mini spell is treated as a 2nd level spell for all purposes, has a reduced range of medium, a reduced radius of 10ft, and all variable damage becomes 2. (Ex. 7d6 becomes 14 damage) A mini spell uses up a spell slot one level lower than the spell’s actual level. Special: Micro/mini spell is not treated as a metamagic for the purpose of abilties that would reduce a spell’s slot when metamagic is applied, such as Magical Lineage. May do a little more tweaking, but there you have it! Low damage, but massive flexibility and fun to be had when combining with other metamagic.
Well, one of our players turned GM is allowing me to use Arcane Thesis from 3.5, as a sort of thanks for GMing for her for all these years. More On Arcane Thesis:
For those of you who haven't seen the feat, here it is: Arcane Thesis Benefit: Choose one arcane spell that you can cast to be your
I'll get Arcane Thesis at level 5, and I'm currently at level 3. If you thought it was broken in 3.5, well now you can reduce metamagic costs further with Magical Lineage, cast the chosen spell spontaneously with Greater Spell Specialization or Preferred Spell, apply fun new metamagic like dazing or rime, and someday Arcane Thesis will horrendously stack with Spell Perfection. (As I read it, Arcane Thesis even reduces the level of the free metamagic you apply with Spell Perfection) I'll be a fireball-wielding admixture evoker, so I can adapt the damage type to the most effective element. Between spell specialization and arcane thesis, fireball will already do 10d6 damage at level 6. It also has +4 caster level to overcome SR right there, and I'll be taking SP, GSP, and Spell Perfection will double those bonuses someday. As a homebrew rule, I'll be able to research metamagic feats for 5k, and our GM is very generous with loot. We already have ~9k after just hitting level 3. This means intensify, rime, selective, focused, piercing, persistent, dazing, widen (homebrew'd to only a +2 adjustment), quicken, and eventually much more. There are a few more quirks, but that's more or less the gist of the build.
Now, being courteous and not wanting to cause grief to my new GM and fellow players, I was thinking of imposing certain limits on myself as to when I actually cast this spell. The nice thing is that I never have to prepare the spell since I can cast it spontaneously, so I can prepare spells like normal and only use it as a backup. Realistically, I invested all of these resources into making this neat trick, so I will use it sometimes. So has anyone had success with imposing limits on yourself for the sake of letting the rest of the party shine/giving your GM a break? Or a limit to fit your character's personality? Help coming up with a good guideline for when to use it would be much appreciated! Flavor stuff that might be relevant:
Perhaps ironically, my character is not a bloodthirsty pyromaniac, but something of a pacifist, or at least not wanting to kill people and wants to avoid collateral damage. I actually was given a homebrew trait that lets me change a chosen spell into a merciful spell.
TheSideKick wrote: the funny thing is that is you care about RAw over what the writers wanted, you get 1.5 strength when fighting as twf. mind you most dms wont let it fly, but there is no rule in the crb that forces the damage to be treated as a light and one handed weapon. it is still concidered a 2 handed weapon while twfing with it. Uh, no...? Quote: Double Weapons: A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. EDIT: My biggest beef with double weapons is whether or not they can be wielded with one hand or not. James Jacobs seems to think so, but even then it seems dubious...
Dragonamedrake wrote: Unfortunately, there is no rule anywhere stating that. Its just not there. It sounds nice though. People might be thinking back to the d&d 3.5 ruling on the feat Arcane Thesis, which is somewhat of precedence for a thing like this. But indeed, Pathfinder has made no ruling, errata, whatever in regards to this. PHB II errata wrote:
... Dragonamedrake wrote:
Quite right, there's no such thing as a cantrip descriptor in a spell, it's just a cantrip by virtue of being level 0. Pathfinder Core Rulebook wrote: Cantrips: Wizards can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Wizard under “Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again. A wizard can prepare a cantrip from a prohibited school, but it uses up two of his available slots (see below). ... A Snooty Gnome wrote: This has all happened before, and it will happen again. Of course! Players always look for ways to combine synergistic things and stumble upon all sorts of potential cheese. That's why errata come in. Like with Spell Perfection and Echoing Spell used to create infinite spells. I think there was also a thread last year about Merciful Spell and Magical Lineage.
Level 1 stats:
Race: Elf (+2 spell penetration)
Feats
General Idea:
Play this character as a Treantmonk “God” Wizard. Major difference? You can spontaneously turn any of your prepared spells into a fireball. …but not just any fireball; the “God” fireball. Rime Spell is a great metamagic to start down the path of the “God” fireball user. You can add it to fireball without level adjustment, thanks to Magical Lineage. (Spontaneously cast fireball, admixture to cold descriptor, spontaneously add Rime) All targets become entangled, so long as they take damage. So they’re entangled even if they make the save! (Unless they have evasion) Once you reach level 9, you gain quintessential metamagic of the “God” fireball user: Dazing Spell. If your dazing spell successfully hits its target, they’re as good as dead. At level 15, your fireball goes up another notch in power. Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, and Spell Penetration are all doubled in power for fireball. Eventually bonuses from Greater Spell Penetration and Focused Spell will be doubled. …and don’t forget the main ability! Tack on Dazing Spell or Quicken Spell for free! You could sacrifice a 5th level spell for a quickened dazing fireball! Nice. Or a 3rd level spell for a quickened rime fireball. Or a 6th level spell for an intensified focused selective rime dazing fireball. Great options. Notes:
Flexibility: You can spontaneously cast fireball, so prepare spells that ignore spell resistance, like summon spells, buffs, battlefield control and so forth. Prepare spells that target will and fortitude saves. Finally, prepare situational, but potentially amazing spells. If the situation doesn’t arise, it can always be a fireball.
Softening: Who says a blast spell can’t soften up opponents? With Rime Spell, entangled foes take a penalty to reflex saves. (Remember, they’re entangled regardless of making the save!) So a rime fireball can be a nice setup for a dazing fireball. Knowledge: Knowledge checks will be important; make sure you know a monster's strengths and weaknesses and admixture accordingly. Spell Resistance: Use other spells if you can help it. But if you need to, you actually should have a decent success rate with your "God" fireball. As an elf, you have a built in +2 to caster level checks to overcome SR. Thanks to feats, you have +4 at level 7, +6 at level 15, and +10 at level 17. Also consider carrying a piercing spell rod. Stages of the game:
Early, early game (Levels 1 through 4)
Rough for all wizards. You should be halfway decent with a longbow at this point. Early game (Levels 5 through 8)
Mid Game (Levels 9 through 14)
Late Game (Levels 15 and up)
Rules Questions:
Is a Heightened Dazing Fireball in a 7th level slot a 4th level or 7th level spell for the purpose of saving throws? I've never heard this debate resolved. The way heighten is written, I'm tempted to think 7th level. Also: how does heighten interact with Magical Lineage? Would casting a Heightened Fireball from a level 3 spell slot result in a 4th level saving throw? I'm hoping to run this build in my next campaign, so... Thoughts? Advice? Criticism? Do you believe in 'The "God" Fireball'?
I love feats a lot, but considering how precious few we get, for optimization's sake, one feels the need to skip all "flavor feats" and opt for things that give defined, always active or consistently useful bonuses. Things like Improved Initiative, Toughness, Weapon Focus, Power Attack, etc. So what would be a flavor feat? Things like Persuasive, Endurance, Underfoot, Prodigy, Teamwork Feats, perhaps combat maneuvers. My players hardly even know they exist. Giving them a combat maneuver feat for free might encourage them to try it out. This is too small a sample, but basically, "Feats a min/max-er wouldn't take for his build" Some thoughts on how to get players more of the feats they'd like: 1) Feat Elimination - Eliminate feats that just seem unnecessary. This has been discussed in other threads; feats like Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Agile Maneuvers, Heighten Spell, Leadership, Strike Back, etc. 2) Feat Consolidation - Let's say instead of removing Two-Weapon Fighting from being a feat altogether, make it one feat. Then when you meet the prereqs for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, you gain it automatically. Perhaps do the same for the Combat Styles in Ultimate Combat. (Especially if for the feat-starved Master of Many Styles)
3) Skill Tricks - This is something from 3.5. I believe it worked something like this; instead of spending your skill points to increase your rank in a skill, you can spend them to buy skill tricks. So I'd need to create a list of feats that could be bought with skill points. Although perhaps not the best example of a Skill Trick; Antagonize could be one. It's something you can do with a skill, why not put it there? Dazzling Display might fit here too. (Limit 1 Skill Trick per level or every other level.) Part of implementing skill tricks would be to give every class (or at least classes like Sorc and Fighter) a bonus 2 skill points per level, so even low Int builds would have a few more points to spare. 4) Character Creation Feat - Dole out feats that make sense to the character, kind of like traits. If they have a good backstory, give them something nice. 5) Feats as a Reward - Completing a quest grew the character in some way. Give them a feat to represent the growth. Did they fight under conditions where their eyesight was next to useless? Perhaps they've earned Blind-Fight. 6) Training - Study under a master to gain another feat. You want to learn Mantis Style? Learn from a master. Want to learn how to grapple effectively? Learn from a master. Want to learn how to wield a whip? Learn from a master. 7) Selling Feats - Least preferred option, but perhaps allowing some feats to be purchased as Ioun Stones or some such is something to consider. Once again, the feats you could take would be from a more restricted list. (No toughness, improved initiative, etc.) 8) More feats - Pathfinder gives us 10 feats over 20 levels. How about houserule 15 feats over 20 levels? At 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level, you get to pick a flavor feat.
I love blaster builds, if only because they make for an interesting challenge; how do you make it viable? However, I love adding a bit of control in there; Dazing Spell (and perhaps Lingering Spell, if you can make good use of it) makes for a fun trick for your Wizard. ... So here's my take on a blaster build: Wizard 1-20 (Evoker, Admixture School)
Elf (Spell Penetration and the favored class option of increasing the number of times you can use Versatile Evocation) Familiar: Compsognathus (Grants +4 to Initiative; you probably can't grab Improved Initiative with this build, this familiar helps with that.) Traits: Warrior of Old (+2 Initiative)
This build will be using Greater Spell Specialization for spontaneous casting, so you shouldn't need to actually prepare blasts. Prepare standard non-blast spells, or situationally awesome spells and convert to blasts (and eventually Dazing Blasts!) as needed. Wiz - Scribe Scroll
BE AWARE! Here's where you get 6th level spells and perhaps the most overpowered spell I've ever seen: Cold Ice Strike. Almost makes me want to give up on metamagic; it has the DC of a 6th level spell, 60 ft cone, up to 15d6 damage and can be cast as a SWIFT action. I decided against taking quicken, almost solely because of this spell. (Rods of quicken help too.) 13th - Intensified Spell (So much more efficient than Empower Spell, for where it works. Burning Hands becomes 10d6, Fireball for 15d6, all for a +1 in level)
... So this build hopes to address many of the weaknesses of blasting: 1. Energy resistance - Either choose one of the spells you have with Spell Specialization, or use admixture to get whatever element you need. 2. Spell Resistance - Being an elf and having Piercing Spell hopefully covers this. Perhaps eventually Orange Ioun Stone and Robe of the Archmagi can further mitigate this. (Or if your GM is kind, ask if you can get just the Spell Penetration portion of the Robe. As treantmonk says, it's not a great item.) 3. DCs - Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Persistent Spell... (And Spell Perfection doubling the bonuses for that spell) Hopefully that will increase your chances enough for your blasts to consistently hit. ... Also, as someone mentioned earlier, being able to research your own spells can be quite a boon. If by 11th level you have Cold Ice Strike and your own homebrew blast as your two specialized spells, they could make for a deadly combination. ...but hopefully this serves as an outline for effective blasting. :3 ... That isn't to say this is the be all and all blaster build. This is all postulation on what might be effective in my experience with the game. You may rightfully disagree with the order I took my feats, or which ones I should be taking at all. Perhaps you see metamagic like Piercing and Selective as candidates for metamagic rods. You might be right. I just like to have an abundance of +1 metamagic so I can adjust each spell level slightly. EDIT: Almost forgot! If you have access to preparation rituals for your spellbook, this might be handy, although potentially dangerous. Harmful Surge (Su) You can maximize a spell, but doing so damages you. Spend this boon effect as a free action when you cast a wizard evocation spell. When you do, you can treat that spell as if it were cast with the Maximize Spell metamagic feat, but you take 1d4 points of damage × the level of the spell that you are maximizing. The damage you take cannot be reduced in any way. ...or... Rime Bite (Su) You infuse your spell with a biting cold that few can withstand. Spend this boon as a free action when you cast a spell with the cold descriptor. Any damage from that spell ignores all resistance to cold, but does not ignore immunity to cold.
@Kaisoku - Exactly. When I'm told to prepare for an upcoming campaign, I consider it my duty to devote an exorbitant amount of time scouring through each book to find anything that might give my character an edge. ...when my friend is told to prepare for an upcoming campaign, she develops an elaborate story, draws her character, and makes her character almost as an afterthought. People just have different mindsets in how they approach the vastly complex game/social event called d&d. (or in this case, Pathfinder)
Meh, I'm ambivalent to the power disparity. I fully agree that a wizard ends up overwhelmingly more powerful than a fighter, (especially in my group, where we have relatively few encounters per day) but the nice thing about d&d and pathfinder is that we aren't really pitted against one another. It's a team effort. While the wizard may be able to make do without a fighter with his raw power, you're always glad to have the melee characters around to conserve your spells. Each member contributes in their own way. Often I like to play the dominating wizard, but I also get satisfaction from power attacking and crit on a nat 15 with Improved Critical (Elven Curve Blade) and making my enemies explode. ...furthermore, I think I have more fun constructing a melee character. I'm a shameless optimizer, and I find optimizing a melee build is more of challenging puzzle than optimizing a wizard. (Although running the character is a different story) Anyway, who cares? The game is fun however you decide to play it.
First, a surprise vocabulary test! If you’re the first to define all 7 words, you get your very own demiplane:
Perspicacity Vacuous Insipid Dissident Abscond Perfunctory Expedient Moving on… The whole notion of us mere mortals creating our own planes intrigues me. So the purpose of this thread is to discuss the functionality of the spells and also how you would use it as a player or as a GM. The Cost: If you cast lesser create demiplane, expand it with create demiplane, and expand it further with greater create demiplane, what is the final cost to make it permanent? From how I’m reading the spell, I think it would be 22,500? It only costs when you have multiple castings of each demiplane spell, but then you pay 22.5k every time you expand with greater create demiplane. …but I'm probably wrong. Also from what I've gathered, adding features to a plane doesn’t cost gp, it just manipulates the current plane. How do you interpret the permanency cost? On a slightly unrelated note, how much gold do you think you would sink into planar creation? Planar Time: Another mildly controversial/confusing aspect of this spell is with greater create demiplane; you can have time flow at half time or double time. Hello spending 24 hours in your plane while 12 hours have passed on your home plane. (Spells per day can be replenished faster and all that) You can also assign the timeless trait to your plane; however it only stops time for everything within, but time continues at a normal pace outside of your plane, and time returns to you as soon as you leave. (i.e. Spend 1000 years in your plane and you’re fine while you’re inside your plane. As soon as you leave, you’re dead! Unless you’re immortal or whatever.) How would you make use of planar time? Here are a few other questions that come to mind, but feel free to discuss any planar shenanigans inspired by these spells: 1. What would you use demiplanes for? Base of operations and a place for all of your followers? (Leadership people rejoice?) A place to trap your enemies? 2. How would you defend your plane? (It can potentially be destroyed by limited wish, wish, miracle, mage’s disjunction and threatened by invaders) What kinds of traps? Guards? 3. What aesthetic features would you add to your plane? Personal touches rock! 4. How would the BBEG make use of his own plane? 5. How would you make use of the other features? Gravity, Alignment, Element, Seasonal Cycle, Night/Day Cycle, etc. Make planes that cater to your Horizon Walker friends? I’ve never dabbled with anything related to planes, so your expertise is appreciated!
Teamwork… It’s actually a bit of a foreign concept to me. My group’s version of teamwork amounts to “attack the enemy until they’re dead.” This tends to work well enough, but after reading through the APG feats, I felt that maybe our group was missing out on some potentially awesome ways to overcome the enemy. So… do you use teamwork strategies and how so? This may vary greatly from the players’ perspective to the GM’s perspective. I want to hear how teamwork has played a role in your games. How does teamwork vary from “attack the enemy until they're dead?”
Do you have AIDS? (Aid Another tactics)
Teamwork Feats
Combat Maneuvers
Spells and Teamwork
Leadership
To give you an example of just how many feats you have, here's what a human ZAM might have by level 9: Improved Unarmed Strike
...so yeah. You have options.
I'm trying to weigh the value of one of the Focused Arcane Schools from the APG, the Foresight School. Foresight School
Prescience (Su):
At the beginning of your turn, you
may, as a free action, roll a single d20. At any point before your next turn, you may use the result of this roll as the result of any d20 roll you are required to make. If you do not use the d20 result before your next turn, it is lost. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier. Foretell (Su):
At 8th level, you can utter a prediction of
the immediate future. While your foretelling is in effect, you emit a 30-foot aura of fortune that aids your allies or hinders your enemies, as chosen by you at the time of prediction. If you choose to aid, you and your allies gain a +2 luck bonus on ability checks, attack rolls, caster level checks, saving throws, and skill checks. If you choose to hinder, your enemies take a –2 penalty on those rolls instead. You can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to your wizard level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. Okay, questions about Prescience: 1. Any d20 roll you are required to make: Does that mean any d20 roll of your choosing or something forced, like a saving throw? 2. Can you make the roll and based upon that decide whether or not you want to replace it with your prescient roll, or do you have to replace the roll with the prescient roll before rolling it at all? Questions about Foretell: 1. Is this a free action? 2. A round constitutes when you initiated it until the beginning of your next turn, right? 3. What does this all affect? Are caster level checks exclusively for Spell Resistance or does it have other applications? Examples of ability checks? Regardless, it's seems powerful to be able to turn on an ability that grants you and your friends a luck bonus similar to having an extra Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Spell Penetration, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, etc. for a number of rounds per day. |
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