The Bard's page

The bard might be the best to solo(though Alchemist might give him a run for his money), but I will argue that he is not the hardest opponent to fight... when he's alone. They can certainly make fights more difficult if they have allies/thralls.

A bard leading a bunch of low-level fighters...
A Magician bard among spellcasters...
A Street Performer bard and a rogue...

Or, perhaps worse than those three, would be a fight with a Dirge Bard. With a little song/dance/etc they can make it so you need to kill every enemy twice.

Interesting... I've certainly got a lot of good options to pick from.

Steelfiredragon wrote:

I was going to suggest shield focus and impvd shield bash...... but that elfblade is a medium blade it a small character...

You know you can have Small weapons for Small characters, right?

It's still a two-handed weapon though, so I'd need a buckler...

You can't pick Improved Critical nor Critical Focus (BAB +8 and +9 requirements). Unless you leveled all the way to levl 9 after the first game :)

Oops, my bad. We were level 8 and went to 9 in the first game(I stood up to a demon 6 times my size to do that too)!

I had not thought of Selective Channel. Considering our Priest(a cleric variant he found) has it, I should have remembered it.

I'm in a game on Friday/Saturday and we were told that we would level up to 9 fairly quickly. I expected two or three games for this to happen, but we leveled up after the first game.

Caught me completely off guard.

We're playing a little one-shot that is going to take us into Expedition to the Demonweb Pits and I'd like some help picking my paladin's 9th level feat.

Currently, I have:

Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Elven Curved Blade)
Power Attack
Weapon Finesse
Dodge

Str 14
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 18

I've been considering Improved Critical, Mobility, Critical Focus, and Extra Lay on Hands. I want to know if there are other feats I might be overlooking though, just in case.

Suggestions?

I'll second the bard suggested above.

About to introduce himself, Kaelar hears that the goblin is looking for an enchanter and decides it is a better idea to greet the new people later...

Bards don't have to sing. They can dance or act or orate or play instruments as well.

I understand that, so let's change the questions. What song is the Iconic Bard singing that has such a horrible effect on the people listening?

Pendagast wrote:

4) Favorite Pathfinder character class?

4) Bard.

Woohoo!

What song would you suggest a bard play in a tavern between adventures?

Guys/gals, don't pester him so! When he wants to look over the spells and give his opinion, he will! Just give TM some time, okay?

>.>
<.<

So.. TM, when ya gonna look at the spells? ;)

Bard(Magician)
Bard(Sand Man)
Bard(Arcane Duelist)
Bard(Archivist or Court)
Bard(Normal)

Bard are definitely a much stronger class than they used to be.

You know, it seems you gained some converts with this archtype! ;)

*starts singing Mr. Sandman*

I haven't seen a lot of Bard stuff being posted...

Where's the love!?

Finally people are starting to realize my POWER!!!

*maniacal bardic laugh*

Epic Meepo wrote:

At the APG Banquet, he announced four new schools of magic: air, earth, fire, and water.

What about heart? :)

Someone call for a Bard?

I've looked at the Oracle, and it can fit the concept, but I still feel that Bard is better for this.

So let's see what the Bard looks like at 5th level with the suggestions made so far.

Human Bard, Lv5

Str 14
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 18 (16+2)
Wis 7
Cha 13(12+1)

Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Arcane Strike

This gives him damage potential and a decent variety of non-Knowledge skills. He lowest check with his Lore Master class feature is 21, he knows 9 languages, can usually tell you what spells are being cast, how much money something is worth, and can use a wide variety of magic items. And thats all without spells!

You need to try the Factotum from Dungeonscape.

He is good for a "Know Everything" PC, and even more so if you combine him with the Exemplar Prestige Class from Complete adventurer.

Of course if you want a "Do Anything" PC, use the Chameleon Prestige Class from Races of Destiny.

I have looked at the Factotum, and I admit to not understanding it well at all. The Chameleon and Exemplar are good, but not what I'm looking for. Thanks for the suggestions though, I appreciate them.

Perform (Oratory).

I choose Perform(Oratory) so he could lecture people. The faster they win the fight(a flavor excuse for the Inspire Courage bonus), the faster he ends the lecture! XD

The Pathfinder Chronicler did cross my mind, but I thought Loremaster would be just as good until I looked them over again to check your reasoning.

Put 1 point into each and then focus on a couple you really like. The take 20 ability will make you as good as, if not better than, a focused character rolling average.

lvl+3+10 for most people vs lvl+4+20 for you.

Taking 20 1~3 times a day is good, but what happens when you run out? The take 10 part of lore master is nice enough to compensate of course, but both parts make me think of somebody who flipped through a book and read a random page.

It certainly looks possible your Ideas with Abraham's progression and stat block. I'll probably go back and re-write the Bard soon, using the ideas presented so far.

Any spell suggestions to help the little librarian outside his 'booked' home?

I'm not sorry for that pun.

How useful would a Bard be if he focused on Knowledge Skills from 1st level? I did a quick right up using the 20 point buy, but I'm not sure if the character could be truly helpful to a party.

Human Bard Lv1

Str 8
Dex 14
Con 9
Int 20(18+2)
Wis 8
Cha 13

Point Blank Shot
Combat Expertise

Thoughts, opinions, criticism?

Whew. Managed to get in here and stab stab stab the post everyone was looking for. So it's just me! Hi everyone!

I now return you to your regularly scheduled strange messageboard thread.

(slinks into shadows, knives ready in case another one needs stabbin')

Spoilsport! If you weren't a rogue, I'd scold you for stealing the fun!

You could always do something heroic and live forever in song!

Jadeite wrote:

you can easily use a buckler and a horn.

Is there a rule that says so? I mean, it breaks suspension of disbelief just to say that a person can sword fight while blowing a horn. It completely devastates suspension of disbelief to believe that a person can sword fight, while blowing a horn and effectively using a shield with the arm he's using to blow the horn.

Really? It straps to the arm and allows you to use a bow without penalty. I see no reason you can't hold a horn in it.

Show me a build for a Bard which plays to his strengths and is not focused on performing, nor merely a secondary role such as buffer.

You realize, that Bardic strength lies in self-buffing as well as the buffing of others? A melee bard may not be buffing with spells as much as a second-line bard, but he still has the option to sing.

A baby ogre?

Let's see if I grasp the idea of this thread...

As a sore I offer:

Evil gone Good.
A creature(that the PC's think are always evil) helps them out some how, for a price.

Its just a jump to the left, and then a step to the riiiiiiiight...

...I'm just a sweet transvirtual from transvirtual transylvania!

EDIT: Sorry, I couldn't resist.

LET'S DO THE TIMEWARP AGAIN!!!

I'm a little concerned with a PC class that absorbs so much of a group's focus when in combat. The Summoner gets his full round of actions, the Eidolon gets a full round of actions, the SLA summoned critter gets a full round of actions. Then the Rogue goes and the fighter goes and the caster goes, and then the Summoner et al all over again. The Summoner and ordinary use of abilities takes up as much action as the entire rest of a 4 person party. Is this desirable? Haven't we seen playtest results that show the Summoner dominates many of the combats that it is in? Play balance should perhaps involve factors beyond comparative power levels.

Blah Blah Blah DRUID Blah Blah Blah

Seriously though, replace "Summoner" with "Druid" and "Eidolon" with "Animal Companion", factor all the summons a druid can get, and the post is only slightly different.

And then there's the Conjurer/Druid/Mystic Theurge. Granted, the summons will be weaker, but there will still be a lot.

You forgot he also made one for Bards(or were you not aware he had?).

*signs petition*

I would just like to say I found this by accident. Enjoy!

LINKY!!!

Here is one of my favorite lines from the web page.

It is impossible to 'win' at D&D. Your character will die eventually no matter what you do.

Ah, but there is a hint of truth in the article!

4th edition killed Gary Gygax, not the other way around.

May the greatest man the world has ever seen rest in peace on which ever plane the percentage dice sent him...

... and Kaelar takes his place.

"Hm. This whole "Champion" thing has gotten out of hand. Perhaps it is time to get some answers and end this..."

A soft spoken word and his form melts into the water as he begins his search for LJ and JH...

Really the wolf most common? Didn't know that. I have never had anyone take one

My ranger has one! In an Oriental campaign no less...

I feel so very confused about what side to stand on.

*Casts major image to create young girl in country clothes with her pet dog in a handbasket*

I'll miss you too Tin Man...

The Bard wrote:

"But if I am lying, what is the truth? Practice is best done by actually working a spell. So I am practicing, but I am also doing more than that. I am trying to strengthen my Champion Magic and trying to make it easier to get rid of when the time comes."

The fish seems to smile. Its teeth are very sharp. "There. Now you are speaking the whole truth. But I fear that I must stop you here, for you cannot be allowed to increase your strength like this. I'm sorry, I really am." The fish apparently sighs. "But in order to preserve the balance of the Board, it must be done. I suppose you are adverse to simply giving up?"

He smiles.

With that, Kaelar simply dissappears.

"But if I am lying, what is the truth? Practice is best done by actually working a spell. So I am practicing, but I am also doing more than that. I am trying to strengthen my Champion Magic and trying to make it easier to get rid off when the time comes."

"Practicing Water Magic, just like I told you. Had you not distracted me I would have moved on to my songs."

Do you really think I'm going to tell you? I'll move him to an active volcano if I must.

"You have not answered my question properly, Kaelar Duskwalker, Champion of the Sea, Seeker of the Song, Elf of Water. What. Are. You. Doing?" The fish seems annoyed now. "I am under strict orders. To guard you."

Fake shock appears on Kaelar's face.

"Oh, and you forgot I'm a Sublime Chord as well."

"Enjoying Water Magic to it's fullest. What is a talking fish doing here? There is no need to guard a lake in this forest."

I really would have thought the Servents would have tried to interfere by now. It's so nice to be able to do something without any interuptions! ;)

Noting that the Aidan and Arielle by the World Tree are mere illusions, Kaelar walks out onto a lake(thought not the one with Tempest in it), and stands there, arms spread wide as water swirls around him. His eyes flare with all the blues one could possible imagine as he starts a lengthy and complex Water Spell...

"If this works," he thinks, "Thw Champion of the Sea will stay the Champion."

Dragonborn3 wrote:

First, doubting the validity of another's statement when we are talking about a free-form fantasy game on the internet? Really?

It was a bit of a joke.

Okay, so I did get it right the first time! darn you, and your dry humor. :P

Dry humor? From the Champion of the Sea? Never. :D

First, doubting the validity of another's statement when we are talking about a free-form fantasy game on the internet? Really?

It was a bit of a joke.

And now I feel lonely knowing the only other Champion is a maniacal lichbold...

It was a valid statement. The Original Four did not use the power they had to the fullest extent. Wind can be used to create sonic booms, water conducts electricity, fire generates light, etc.

Who is the Wind Champion by the way? Are you bringing bag the Champion of Hot Air or what? :)

The Bard wrote:

"Do not forget the multiple realities that may exist."

"Given time, other aspects of the standard elements may give rise to never-before-seen Champion, such as a Champion of Lightning, Light, or Sound."

Both Arielle and LJ give him a strange look. They look at each other and shake their heads.

I now challenge the validity of your head-shaking!

Frost looks exasperated. "I...would you stop speaking ambiguously? I am trying to warn you people! Champions don't last. Some well-known researchers confirm it. It was difficult to find them, but I did. After the imbalance in the area is over, the hosts deteriorate. Their minds go first. They become destructive, and weak to outside influence. Eventually, they are completely destroyed by their own energies. Now, there are only two true Champions left. Kobold Cleaver, and The Bard. If they too do not lose the Championship, they will not last."

He is silent for a moment.
"At least, that is the theory. But the Servants believe it. And they have the most extensive libraries and knowledge bases in the world."

"Sounds like KC is already being destroyed. I appreciate the warning, old Wyrm."

"It seems like the Servants will latch on to anything that could return them to power."

"Do not forget the multiple realities that may exist."

"Given time, other aspects of the standard elements may give rise to never-before-seen Champion, such as a Champion of Lightning, Light, or Sound."

He shrugs. "I know not. But if ever there comes a time when there is no imbalance, as I believe has happened, the Champions may all feel the consequences. They aren't supposed to live this long."

"Or maybe they are, and none till now have managed to live long enough to realize it."

The Bard wrote:

"The only evil Champion was the Tsar. Don't forget that only moments ago I was willing to fight you to free Aidan."

He shakes his head.

"I have heard studies. Have you ever heard of an Elemental Champion who lived past the danger? No. They all died. Champions aren't meant to live. they're meant to fight."

"And there is still danger, as there will always be. I have lived to long to die because I am a Champion. I've seen so much, in this world and in the Stream. I may die one day, but it won't be because some Servant decided to study a few examples."

"And just because the original Champion may have been fighters-to-the-death, it doesn't mean I am."

"The only evil Champion was the Tsar. Don't forget that only moments ago I was willing to fight you to free Aidan."

"Yhough I suppose KC may be an Evil Champion now..."

"I can truthfully say I am not lying. In fact, I am standing, but that isn't the point. He is not a threat to anyone in his current state, and will only be a danger to those who wish him harm after he recovers."