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Just so, thank you Nihimon. Still, Market PvP seems like a feature to me... wonder what that says about me, lol.
Agreeing with this for more visibility; this also goes back a ways to when I mentioned wanting to be able to filter 'store-houses' or what-not in order to find the crafter with the reputation that is most appealing to me... I want to be able to easily buy from those who I most want to support.
It has been stated that animations are something that are not trivial to add. There was a huge thread about being able to sit in chairs that really went nowhere.
I only meant that the animations that do exist should be able to be triggered in line. Instead of having to type an /me and then type /sit you could do it all at once.
Nolondil Leafrunner wrote:
The benefit of Alignment is to put some consistency in the game and not have to rely purely on the willingness of RPers. One of the (many) things that bothered me to no end on WoW (yes I *tried* to RP on WoW T.T) was that the game mechanisms and the faction system was completely broken in favor of "game-balance" rather than lore consistency. This was hugely detrimental to the immersion. In PFO an assassin or a necromancer must choose an evil alignment and a paladin a good one. Your character actions *will* impact your alignment.
That was the best thing about Asheron's Call; every game change was explained in/consistent with the lore.
Nolondil Leafrunner wrote:
Now I'm not completely familiar with Golarion's Lore, but I am surprized that Raising Undead is not an evil act, what's the source on that?
Casting a spell with the 'Evil' descriptor (like create undead) does not make you evil, much like casting a spell with the 'Good' descriptor does not make you good (although, in PFRPG most spells with the 'Good' descriptor are only available to good or neutral clerics.) A lot of that is because alignment is left a bit more vague in PnP and your actual alignment is more of a contract between you and the GM than it is an actual 'fact.' Some GMs run it differently than others, of course, but in PnP it is a hotly debated and still hazy subject.
Has anyone compiled a list of "best-practices" for RP in PFO?
What nearly every MMO lacks, which astounds me even more in DDO, Neverwinter, and even Neverwinter Nights (1&2), is the ability to easily convey your character through the game. In-line target-terms and graphic emote commands are two things that should be easy to code which are neglected too often.
/em The scritch-screatch of wood against stone echoes quietly in the empty tavern when ~self ^sit @table. #self ^read @tome_of_insight, idly turning the pages while he waits for ~barkeeper's attention.
Text Output (bolded words are hyper-linked):
The scritch-screatch of wood against stone echoes quietly in the empty tavern when Tertiary sits at the table. He reads a tome of insight, idly turning the pages while he waits for Blumpkis Sourstone's attention.
Character sits at a table. Character removes book from hammer-space and can be seen reading it.
The contact field could be separated into PoC (Point-of-Contact: who you will be contacting) and MoC (Method-of-Contact: how you should contact them).
Theme is an important category to me; whether arcane/religious, casual/hardcore, aligned with one of the NPC factions, etc.
Since there are no guilds, it may be better to call it a 'Organizations' thread and add a column to designate whether they intend to be a nation, settlement, or CC.
In consideration of those organizations which intend to become nations, the settlement column could be changed to 'capitol'.
Adding an 'alliance/affiliates' column may not be amiss... though it could become quickly bloated and simultaneously outdated... or even underused as some alliances may be covert... *shrugs* Maybe make the data point for alliances the number of allies? #Allies.
Just some ideas; looks great! Thank you!
FMS Quietus wrote:
Yeah the whole mess with Neverwinter is one that comes to mind for me. They destroyed the economy and everyone started trading in cats instead.
This was a natural evolution on Asheron's Call and the economy eventually created and stabilized itself. Pyreal motes and eventually singularity keys became the base currency of the economy and the value of other items adjusted to whatever the most desirable drop was at the time... I always thought it worked out great.
TEO Alexander Damocles wrote:
That he wishes for us to be governed by the ignorant, or that he wishes for outsiders to designate our lexicon? Neither seems accurate, productive, or relevant.
It was my understanding that he wished to know if Pax was collectively regarded as a guild by our community, and that our community (PFO) does not have guilds. Am I mistaken or otherwise confused?
Are we governed by the ignorant? (*EDIT: How is it) relevant that outsiders label two related CCs as a single guild?
Ryan Dancey wrote:
It is not relevant to anything except the Land Rush promotion. There will be no guilds as structures in the game.
I feel like that is the answer you are asking for, then. :) Whether they are or are not a guild seems irrelevant to PFO in all ways, shapes, and forms.
My opinion is that holding on to outdated schemas of organization, remnants of the archaic theme-park strata, would be detrimental to forging PFO's unique destiny. Those who view the game in such a manner will undoubtedly fall behind - nations are only a collective of settlements, chartered companies are unrelated to their governance.
Guilds are mere flesh-golems; constructs of the real-world. Is Pax a guild? No, guilds do not exist in PFO.
It was my understanding that in-game coalitions would be comprised of parties, chartered companies, settlements, and nations - none of those are guilds... so I just want to clarify before I offer an opinion: Has anyone defined 'guild' as it is relevant to PFO?
Will specialization in knowledge skills be viable? e.g. adventuring parties might seek out such a specialist to optimize their looting?
...(or ask someone to explain it you)...
I think it would be wise to check post history before posting jibes like this.
Pete's a pretty clever fellow and playing opposite his wizard as our group's sorcerer I can attest that there does often seem to be an imbalance. Some of that is our play styles, some of that is the pace of our game, some of it is house rules, but a lot of it does have to do with mechanics. When the game is played properly, sorcerers have a clear advantage. Recall that every toy you give the wizard, the sorcerer has equivalent wealth/access to feats and doesn't have to waste it trying to catch up w/ the wizard. And when you are playing organically instead of theory-crafting this divide becomes more evident because...
The biggest problem with wizards? Anything they want to do... takes ten times longer in downtime than any other non-wizard PC is going to want to spend. I've got my own projects and it happens I am the uncommon sort who wants as much downtime as Peter; but our fighters, bard, and cleric? Not even a glimmer of interest in taking a year off in-character so the wizard can research some new spells/create some custom magic items/etc.
Also, having EVE-Stlye production queus is a major turn-off for me. There is already too much EVE-fanboi in the game for me... If I wanted to play EVE I'd play EVE. :\ Since I'm boycotting EVE due to consumer dissatisfaction...
Can you be sure to include a reputation system for vendors/merchants/crafters? So we can sort by/show preferential treatment to PCs that we like? (e.g. have their good shown higher on a sorted list) Or show preferential treatment to our nation/guild/race/affiliation/etc.?
It looks like you are intending to make a military settlement that caters to intermediete crafters? Or are you making a crafting settlement that will have intermediete protection? Will there be a focus to the training provided (ie. high tier strength skills), or will the settlement try to provide as many trainers as possible? How will you moderate who gets the limited available training; significant mark-up on the price? Leave moderation of training to CCs? Have in-game or out-of-game applications?
That Link I Linked wrote:
Hexes: It may be important for some GMs using this article to know how much land is in a hexagonal area! To determine the area of a hex, multiply its width by 0.9306049, and square the result. Thus, if your game-map has hexes 30 miles across, each hex represents about 780 square miles (and it's a convenient size for travel-times, since 30 miles is a good rule of thumb for a day's road travel on foot or horseback).
I may have misquoted. I am at a similar level of math. Cool Story: when I was doing my college math placement test many years ago (after four years of intervening military service) I forgot Order of Operations. Needless to say, I failed that test... a lot.
Fair enough; and I do see that. But, from my perspective... the mask was never intended to be a permanent piece of gear. You put it on when you need it, you take it off right after. To be honest, though, the time frame we're looking at before we're seeing people who are reliably able to act as top-tier commanders + leaders + assassins is probably nearly half a decade from now. So, sure... don't take anything away. Their penalty can be their lack of focus. ;)
I disagree; it is the nature of RPGs that you make decisions and those decisions have consequences. For some, being a assassin leader will be extremely desirable. They will micro-manage their DI and let their crafters/defenders know when it will pogo... they will schedule the pogo appropriately so that just before they need to assassinate someone is when they will don the mask... and before the massed assault against the target's town is when they will remove it and join the legions. Will that be for everyone? Certainly not, that's a lot of work! But, I do not think it is an unfair system.
EDIT: Also, I don't recommend this for those who wish to be SUPER-TOP-SECRET about their assassin schtick. Anyone closely monitoring your DI for long enough will probably notice the pogo.
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I am utterly against gremlins in the game on the grounds that I refuse to fight pugwampi. Any merchant who tries to lead me into a pugwampi-infested zone is dead meat, you hear me?!
I refuse to fight stirges. I don't care if I'm epic level... I will run away, and without shame.
EDIT: Oh, and a hex is something like ~.927 squares. So, yeah... very extreme rounding. :) But, extreme is my middle name. Tertiary Extreme Hyperbole. AKA. 'TEH' for the sound people make when they have to deal with me too often. ;)
Clever! I vote Five Kings for the mountainous terrain! Thanks for the info, Bringslite! :)
I stand corrected. :)
^ EDIT @ Imbicatus: Word.
I would like to wonder aloud, 'What intentionally anonymous assassin is knowingly donning the mask that grants them anonymity while being observed and thus effectively rendering it useless forever more?' It seems to me that simply making it impossible to don an assassins mask while you have that debuff is the logical answer to this quandry.
Dario; postmortum anonymity has been addressed. When you kill a person normally, you show up on their 'kill list.' When you are wearing an assassin's mask you show up as 'assassin' instead of your normal name. Premortum, it will be dependant on disguises and cleverness, I suspect... since the assassin's mask was only said to effect communication channels and metagame bits unless I'm mistaken?
And, in order to get the mask you are required to build up reputation with one of the larger assassins guilds like Red Mantis or the Daggermark Assasins Guild. That means that your reputation with other groups (probably big ones, too, like Iomedae and Hellknights) is going to go suffer. Particular skills/abilities have not actually been mentioned as a requisite -- if you think you can 'fighter' your way into a settlement and out on an assassination contract, I see no reason to stop your efforts. 'Evil' has also not been mentioned as a prerequisite in PFO... still, the mask is not a freebie to all-comers.
1000 meters is ~1 mile. A hex is ~1 square. I am doing some extreme rounding. ;) If it is very much closer to the 400 meter mark then... yeah, I'd have some concerns about how large settlements will be, too. :\
Well, they have a system for reducing the effectiveness of a settlement when a key cog is removed (ie. one of the players is assassinated). I assume that whole thing will be linked; having players in leadership roles will be necessary in order to access the highest DI. When those players are removed, your DI (and thus effectiveness of your settlement) is reduced... I'd assume the same would be true when you removed your PvP window. Instant reduction of DI values and commensurate reduction of settlement effectiveness.
I think that's fair enough; if your whole community can only play on the weekends and only wants access to the highest DI on the weekends -- why should you need to login all week long to defend the settlement? Just max your PvP window Friday night and turn it off Monday morning.
Will settlements be able to grow into cities? Won't they have to be instances to get that large? The individual hex sizes are not very big.
Each hex will be roughly 1 sq. mile (640 acres). I imagine a fully developed settlement might spill into surrounding hexes, but I don't imagine it needs to be much bigger than that. I could go into details on why that should be sufficient... but, it's complicated and a lot of work. Suffice to say that the PoI, wilderness harvest locations, etc. should be counted when you consider the 'actual size' of the supporting village and that you should realize these will be villages/hamlets/etc. and not small cities; the NPC Fortresses are the small cities that support them.
A quick search provides THIS LINK which gives a bit more information. There are other articles out there that cover the topic as well. So, I guess my answer to your question would be 'no, they are not supposed to grow into cities.' They may seem that way and even be refered to that way in the metagame; but demographically they will not be that large.
Mountains won't be in for a while; 'steep hills' will not even come close to 'small mountains' unfortuantely... it's just not part of the terrain in the area. I'd expect a long wait before we see any sort of mountainous region... that is, unless they chose to open up a completely new area w/out needing the two areas to be directly connected.
If a leader type dies through regular combat do indexes drop or is it only through the act of assassinations?
The blogs heavily imply that it is only when the leader is assassinated; as written, it is an added incentive to be an/hire an assassin.
The penalty to your generals dying is that you loose their leadership bonus; there is a whole log on fighting in formations/etc. and it specifies that in order to get formation bonuses you need to have someone trained in the abilities that give them to you.
Agreed, Decius. Rock, paper, scissor, cannon, tickle, spider is always preferable to punch, dodge.
Shadowplexus, abilities will be adjusted by a d1000 (in precisely the same manner as d20s are used for PnP; though the modifiers will be similiarly larger than PnP), but otherwise yes... just so. :)
Aha, I parsed with too much weight on 'adjacent' and not enough weight on 'settlement'. My mistake. Still, we can infer a great deal; MAXPOWER can be inferred to be a function of STRUCTURESIZE based on the blog acknowledging that POIs will have fewer guards. Further, we know that NPCPOWER is a direct function of one of the index values based on one of the previous blogs. We know that index values will be limited based on PVPWINDOW and that STRUCTURESIZE will be limited based on index values. We can infer that MAXPOWER is a function of NPCPOWER and thus: if PVPWINDOW==0 than limit MAXPOWER by NPCPOWER*STRUCTURESIZE. Or, you know, whatever. Basically, a sliding scale of invincibility.
Besides which, training is not the only function of a settlement. Each will have unique modifiers/resources/etc. that will encourage factions to improve them. The POI and resources (wood/gems/etc.) of the adjacent hexes will be modified by the settlement indexes. We can infer that incursions will be somewhat modified by settlement index values as well (though there has been nothing to directly imply this yet). And, finally, where would you rather retreat to when you are ambushed while harvesting or camping mobs? A 1000/1000/1000 index value settlement, or a 200/200/200 settlement? The settlement might be nearly impossible to conquer, but that does not mean the PCs inside the settlement will be impossible to spawncamp.
Finally, I expect the ability to 'squat' on a settlement w/ 0 PvP window is a feature and not a bug. There are, quite frankly, players who won't want to deal with that and would prefer to have a janky settlement than constantly labor under the threat of looming PvP war. Though, I do appreciate the sentiment you are expressing... perhaps something akin to Eve's 0 security sector is in order?
A bunch of things and stuff.
Maybe the 'Max PvP Window' is 8-hours/day + you can only change it 1/month and the 'Min PvP Window' is 30-min/day + you can change it 1/day? If that makes any sense.
I do maintain, and agree with AvenaOats, that a constant window is preferable to a mercurial window. IRL is a constant issue and it takes less than a minute before a massive siege before you might find out your commander (who was going to be there) suddenly cannot (because of cancer or something similiarly terrible) and a game should never take priority over that... but, there are potentially hundreds of people who will be involved. We have IRL too that we have to schedule around; it's not fair to all of us if 'you' are constantly changing your window and making us readjust our schedules.
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
So, this isn't too on-topic, but I'm interested by the idea that a tavern could be a defensible location--if only a thorn in the side of most proper settlements. Am I right in thinking that one could build a tavern without building a Settlement?
If I am not mistaken; Yes. There will be several PoIs throughout the Crusader Road area that will not be connected to settlements.
It seems likely that while the settlement NPC 'off-duty' guards will be insurmountable, the smaller 'featured site' 'off-duty' guards will be less so. The blog suggests that there will be far fewer of them; this suggests to me that 'squating' on adjacent hexes will be difficult without a PC force present (though primary settlement hexes might be easier to do).
Will a Settlement be able to modify its PvP Window while an attack or siege is underway? It seems to me that once the siege is laid, or possibly even once there's a Declaration of War, that the defenders should have to live with their current PvP Window or increase it, but not move or decrease it.
Ideally, the guilds would organize so that the maximum number of people available are around to participate in the war... and the sportsman-like guilds might even limit their numbers if they are significantly larger than their attackers/defenders... ideally. ;) So far as modifying your PvP Window; don't most MMOs that have that sort of system only allow modification once/week?
It's possible, Shadowfear, but since Paizo/Pathfinder tend to try and simplify and keep things thematic I think it's more likely they'll fold that under the 'stealth' skill. However, I would not be surprised to see 'Horizon Walker' type prestige abilities, and certainly not be surprised to see 'Ranger' type favored terrains.
Also, I'm using 'Survival' just because it is implied there will be some sort of skill/ability based tracking system and in Pathfinder PnP that is what it would be based on. I don't know that it will specifically be survival, or even based on survival. Honestly, the way they have things arranged (abilities/feats are purchased individually and upgraded and your ability scores are upgraded based on which feats/abilities you purchase), it seems much more likely that it will not actually be anything like the 'survival skill.' :)
I'm just guessing, Sintaqx, but based on this and the last blog I suspect that the off-hour NPCs are not based on your development indexes. They are 'full-strength' and thus not subject to having their power reduced by assassination (since it is the index values which fluctuate based on assassination, and it is the fluctuating index values which decrease the power of on-duty guards).
The first thing I notice that is not addressed whether new supporters might be able to muscle in on the Crowdforging and early-access, only mention that people may increase their pledges. Any way those who missed the Kickstarter will be able to participate?
ZenPagan, I'd imagine that would be a function of the Diplomacy (Gather Information) skill and should be available via any NPCs. Maybe Settlement Leadership gets a bonus w/ their NPCs, though?
cartomancer, no need to conceed. I think that there should be a heavy PC focus; it's just that I've played Shadowbane... and one of the most startling things about that world was the lack of NPCs. It felt so empty, especially near the end of its reign when there were few PCs too. The Dynamic Creep in PFO should do a lot to combat that feeling, but as with all things it is a delicate balance. ;)
I'll do the research then and have a report for y'all by the end of the week... same with the work idling, btw. And, I know there are webclients; whether they are available via work (e.g. at least one of the ones I'm thinking of is a Java app which my work server hates) remains to be seen... but, I'll try to find a few and post those as well. The resource thread for my mIRC-based game could use that sort of update anyways. :)
Planetside 2 has Voice-Macros (two key presses for a basic recorded message) to communicate in the middle of battle. I suppose voice chat might speed me up a bit, but I really don't like it. Also, though it is widely off-topic, I miss the three menu deep voice-macros of Planetside 1. Lots of 'needs' missing in PS2 (hacker, gunner, etc) that were easy enough to call out in PS1.
I agree with Dario, but I would like to add that just because the server cooperates to create something does not mean they cooperate to control it. Imagine if there were benefits to controlling the Wonder of the Kingdoms that you all got together to help create... and that someone didn't want you to have those benefits? How much more pitched will the battle be when you had a hand in creating this structure that has now been stolen from you?
The *PS2 (Planetside 2) voice chat is fairly robust and gets a lot of use; I know at least one major Outfit still insists on using TeamSpeak, though. It doesn't get abused often; though the ability to shoot offenders in the head probably helps... I personally refuse to use voice-chat... everyone should learn to type 100+ WPM like me! #OG-elitist
Along those lines, would anyone have any interest in an IRC room(s)? With minimal research and investment I could probably set one up; and it would have the added benefit of allowing people to idle without having to worry about someone obnoxiously shouting, "HULLO!" right at the scariest part of the movie you're watching because you forgot to turn the volume down from 11... chicks don't dig it when you jump for a knife because your dorky RPG voice-chat startled you. :(
OP: Rather than needing to raze your building to the ground, I'd rather this system gave you some method of improving the building/tool/etc. or that the effect was stapled to the property plot and not the building. I don't like the idea of completely random generation; it winds up penalizing too many 'casual' players (penalizing players randomly is never a good idea, imho.)
At the start of EE building types will likely be similar except maybe in paint jobs. Later, they may become more diversified.
You mean with the context that different settlement types will probably have different building themes? Since they plan to phase settlements in after launch, I hope this isn't accurate... I hope there are at least several options for each building type... but, they have said that cosmetics (e.g. furnishing your own homes) are not something intended for the first phases of the game.
Personally, I'd rather see wonders more along the lines of community projects where the majority of the server population would have to work together in order to accomplish them similar to how Horizons rocked it out. Those always wound up being awesome and epic accomplishments in the story of the game; it's my opinion that limiting the scope to a single settlement would likewise limit the story.
Hardin Steele wrote:
I don't think we should expect naturally occuring volcanos or earthquakes in the River Kingdoms; from what I've read of the area it just doesn't seem like the right spot for that. As the game expands, hopefully towards the Worldwound, maybe more of that sort of thing... and I know some folks hope for mountainous areas to be part of the game world soon (which I believe would be northern or western expansion? The western mountain-range seems a more likely source of that sort of natural phenomena.)
As mentioned, the druid earthquake spell is huge in PnP Pathfinder... and taking too much of that sort of thing away from 'druid' archtypes (remember there won't be classes) will debilitate the 'class.' I think Volcanos will be beyond the scope of anything other than (as mentioned) artifacts or McGuffins. However, keep in mind that there is a lot of fey activity nearby to the north-east (?) of the game area... there could be plenty of 'Main-Plot' type events of this sort if the Devs choose to take it in that direction.
I've already mentioned elsewhere how much including dynamic weather would influence the immersion of the game... and how much I would very much appreciate that immersion. Fog, flooding, and rain are definitely things I expect and I think we should expect. :)
QFT. I'll be honest, I'm surprised to see debate over this issue in relation to Pathfinder. Their quality visual art is constantly laureled in every product review I've read. The review could read, "I hate everything about this, especially all the things" and it will always conclude, "But, as always, Paizo again delivers eye-candy for the soul." The 'problem' will never be realism vs. fantasy, empowerment vs. subjectification, etc... it is an issue of smut vs. art. With Paizo/Pathfinder/Goblinworks, I feel confident in saying I have no fear that this will be an issue.
That's all true, Vereor, and clever and fun... I hope to be able to support you if I go that way because I suspect assassins are (too often) going to get shafted by the metagame. ie. I know that Vereor Nox is an assassin... so when I toggle my champion tag on, I'm just going to /track Vereor and kill him since I already know that fellow is evil (assuming there is (as usual) not a good version of assassins.) And unattainable goals are the best! They mean you always have something to strive for!! If you meet all your goals, where's the fun left in life???
@Nihimon; Wow... so it is. I think I misread it because that seems a bit strict for settlement alignment... but, I suppose this isn't the thread for that. Thanks for setting me straight, though!!
Good luck finding a Company, Nightfear! I'll stop hijacking your thread now! ;)
I'd say you guys seem to be on the right track from what I've read about the region; I can't find anything that specifically signifies the climate, but I can double-check my sources if no one else has already checked them? (Campaign setting, Guide to the River Kingdoms, and the Kingmaker AP/Players' Guide would be the big ones, I'm guessing)
I wouldn't be surprised to see promotional 'holiday' weather regardless of the appropriate climate. The blog suggests we shouldn't expect to see dynamic weather soon after launch, but I'll be honest... I think I'd almost rather have realistic/dynamic weather patterns early on than a lot of other features that will probably make it into launch. The immersion of slogging through a muddy field to battle a dragon on a rain-soaked day... yeah... wants.
I'm actually surprised to see an intended assassin publically post w/ their character's name -- I'd imagined that the only ones who publically revealed themselves would be the 'inactive' types who acted as the faces of the guilds and never carried out a hit themselves... they just set up the contracts and passed them along. I figured that a name would be an assassin's most valued commodity... interesting to see that play out. ;)
Nihimon, communities can host characters w/in two alignment steps away from them - wouldn't that suggest that a TN community could host any alignment? Since TSV is dedicated to knowledge it already seems like a TN Company... or am I missing something somewhere?
Bringslite; it was an assumption that I made... I should have noted that? My apologies if I neglected that. :) Good work finding that quote, though! I went back and looked but I'm horrible at keeping track and refinding things like that! x.x
I also remembered 'gypsy wagons'. I'd also like to point out that a lot of the benefit of personel wagons (gypsy wagons and carriages) should be that they will be quicker than bipedal locomotion... thus the biggest benefit of riding in those would be 'running away and avoiding conflict' with the presumably (not certainly) unmounted bandits. Be interesting to see mounted vs. carriaged combat, though. Heh.
I know it's already been mentioned that the OP doesn't expect to see them in launch (or even relatively soon after), but I'd like to offer further support ot that... the Devs mentioned they do not plan to have building interiors available at launch (though they specified they would like to develop them eventually)... so, having 'wagon interiors' seems a very low priority.
In response to hiding folks in the wagon, though: Consider clauravoiyance/clauraudience -- a very simple mechanic that should penetrate this tactic and should also (imho) be available at the same time as any sort of 'realistic' covered cargo wagon. It seems like a monumental amount of work to implement the tactic + the counter-tactic and I am uncertain whether the Rule of Cool is going to have as much impact as we suspect.
Anyways, I've said my piece so I'll dip out of the thread and stop bothering y'all. ;)
After writing all that; I actually recalled a scene from one of the oldish Robin Hoods (the one with Kevin Costner maybe?) where they have some armored wagons and a bunch of guards pop-out to ambush the Merry Men. Still, so far as game-balance goes I remain against. :)