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Just an idea i had right now - how about a revived Lavinia during the Siege of Farshore, where she taunts the PCs, blames them for abandoning her, and is just a little bit too creepily into her brother? Of course it is mind control, but it just might drive home just how much this turn of events is "not as it should be".

As a quick note, I'll update the thread ASAP for the moment, in order to keep the delay to a minimum. That is, Zalen's posts determine the pace.

He just announced he doubles each of your bets - so... well... not to give you too many hints, but if you are confident with Zalen, you could just get into the kind of money Mr Crawly wants

Ah, as to the module: It needs not end in a fight, but very possibly can. I altered the scene a little bit (since several of my dear players probably know the "as written", i tend to mix things up), but in general, it still is a possible, but not mandatory battle.

Pushing the thug off the table sounds like bull rush to me, maybe with some grappling added in.

In general, I'd say most is acrobatics, trip, bull rush, or similar combat maneuvers.

As for how to read the King - i rolled a sense motive check for you, and you're really not so sure. He probably wouldn't appreciate a bad show, and wants to see Zalen sweat and fight. If he threw the game, he'd probably lose more points. As to "losing after a good show" vs "winning the thing" - you really can't tell.

I'm a little out of the loop. What can i assume as to who i run across?

Actually, that 20 saved you from a "boys, get him!". :) Besides, its not just one game of knifesies, do or die. Good Luck, Zalen.

Ooops, got this wrong the last time around. For future reference, here is the complete rules text.

Knivesies is simple to play. Two contestants stand on opposite
ends of a long wooden table. Their right hands are strapped
together with a boiled leather strap, belt pouches are fitted to their
waists, and a dagger is stuck in the tabletop between them. The
game begins after a count of ten, during which time observers
can place bets by tossing gold onto the table and standing at the
end of the table where their chosen fighter stands. As the game
begins, each contestant makes an initiative check.

There are two ways to win Knivesies. You can either force the
other contestant to fall off the table, or you can grab for the gold
and drop it into your pouch. Snatching a fistful of 1d10 coins off the
table is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity.
Since each opponent has only one free hand, the first round is
typically a mad lunge for the dagger, forcing the slower opponent
to make grabs for gold. There aren’t any more rules beyond this;
most Knivesies games devolve into tabletop brawls, with the first
person to drop or touch the ground losing.

The game ends once a contestant is unconscious, dead,
or knocked off the table; as soon as no coins remain on the
table; or as soon as any coin is knocked off the table. When the
game ends, an unconscious, dead, or de-tabled contestant is
automatically the loser. Otherwise, the winner is determined by
which person has the most coins in his pouch. At the end of the
game, all money is emptied from the pouches back onto the
table. Half the total is paid to the winner, while the remainder
is split evenly among all of those who stood at the winner’s end
of the table.

That's good to know. I figured they represented more "life experience" than divine connection, anyway.

My Word of advice: Don't sweat it. Money becomes much more plentiful once you hit outland, and you won't have to work half as much for good gear.

If you absolutely insist on making money right now, go for gathering. If you have a gathering skill, try and sell materials somewhere midway the profession chain. Lots of people are currently respeccing, and if you can provide them with materials, you will end up with a handy profit

Hell, i once paid 30 gold for a stack of Steelbloom...

It's not made up, it's from Elves of Golarion, adapted to Pathfinder RPG (due to its non-existence of Gather Information). Thus, half a "+2 to two skills" feat - +1 to two skills.

That said, I'll drop the diplomacy part. Its not as if she has much of a chance with that skill anyway.

Since both Sense Motive and Diplomacy are class skills anyway, that would be a very unimpressive trait. I'd go with sense motive if you pushed me, though - mainly since this is "my skill", and I'm unlikely to ever be able to pick up another seriously.

As for where she lives: The gold goblin is more or less her "final test" if she really has changed, and can really close off another chapter behind her. She's made all the preparations, but will follow through once she knows how the "Cheat the Devil" tournament turns out. Call it a somewhat useless trial of herself.

Simple - the post count stays off by one, no matter how many posts appear on the page - and a deleted post was mentioned when the problem first turned up.

The "missing" posts at the page breaks is simply the boards counting being "off by one" on account of a deleted post somewhere earlier in the thread. Pay it no mind. :)

Naturally, that would be 500 Gold... damnity damn typos

I see the problem - it is the other major issue i have with the PbP format.

Combat has worked well with my modifications, but all "group vs 1" discussions tend to drag. The best i can do is try to get to the "damn point" quickly, and cut away as much dross as possible.

Any ideas to improve this would be welcome.

It's ok. I'm putting up a spoilered section now

Ayedah, since you look more closely at the room - give me a perception check?

Oh, and will we use the "Upgraded" paladin posted by Jason?

Let's just say he rolled an ungodly Knowledge: local check...

Not so easy with one skill point per level :)

I've not yet made any hard and fast rules, but yes. Generally, Bluffing or otherwise obscuring will be more complex for higher-level spells. Oh, and Bards naturally have an almost perfect alibi if they are expected to put up a performance anyway. :)

3)I don't care about relearning dozens of rules/items/spells that received minor changes. Either go for a full-scale new edition and drop "backwards compatibility" sham, or do not change things, unless these things are instant campaign-winners (chain-binding, unlimited Wish loops, PAO/Shapechange, perhaps; scry & fry borders on that - you can counter it, technically, but the wast majority of published adventures are going to be destroyed by that), just because you have a specific opinion about how the game should be played.

Paizo simply can't reprint the 3.5 rules verbatim, and neither should they. Pathfinder will vary in detail, and while many mechanics will be similar to 3.5, it will be different in detail. Simply consider "feats at every odd level" as opposed to 3.5.

Backwards compatibility was never meant as "identical rules", i think. It meant that most of the options you've grown used to still exist in some shape or form. Not necessarily all, and not always in the same efficiency relations.

Rules will change, and one of the goals of this playtest is to change them for the better. Removing some troublesome options or restating them to prevent some abuses is one of these changes. A change I welcome and support. You seem to be very averse to any change, especially any that might limit options. Fair enough, you made yourself heard.

I am in favor of this particular change, because i feel it improves more than it damages. I think my view is not unreasonable, and some other posters expressed similar views. You prefer another style of play, but unless you can really bring something to the table to convince me, I think we really have not much more to discuss. Let's see how the final book turns out.

Just as a headsup: Casting a spell with verbal components will usually be audible. Anything with somatic components needs "vigorous motion". Anything with material components or a focus requires handling this item.

While i am ok with the occasional muttered prayer or subdued motion, i will keep a lookout for this, and reserve the right to call bluff checks or flat out demand silent or still spells in some instances.

If you want hard and fast rules, i can come up with some, but in general, i would prefer handling this on a case by case basis.

I'm currently sounding off several PC ideas, and would like to have some sort of Feedback on these:

* Elven Paladin of Sarenrae: Might make for some fun interaction with our druid. I'd see her as a bit of a "protector" who tries to get the paranoid gnome back on track, gently and with an endless supply of frustration tolerance. Probably a bit of a "fallen girl" who had her own redemption. For those who still know Berel from Zoomackular's CotCT, it is a variant of that concept.

* Half-Orc Druid (or maybe Cleric of Old Deadeye): Fits right into the outcast-scheme of Riddleport. I originally had this PC in mind for Dahnxs game, but was too late pitching it.

* Dwarven Wizard: Obsessed with the elven past, he'd probably fit in very well with the later drow-connections of the adventure path. After all, dwarves come from underground and some may still consider the secrets of the deep their birthright

* Elven Fighter: Forlorn elf who has become embittered over seeing two generations of friends grow old and die in the time it just took her to mature. Dark and brooding character, sometimes taking risks bordering on the suicidal.

Which of these (if any) deserve further thought? Let me know. :)

I can answer that honestly and truthfully: That particular game started off with high potential, but somehow, i didn't ignite with me. Dergo... well. I like the concept still, but somehow, he didn't get to play to his initial promise.

I feel the opening was, though not botched, really paced none-too-well. Some got in 20 posts when i got in 2, and lots of plot i had nothing to do with filled up spoiler tags.

Also, i must admit, i might live in the wrong timezone for that game. Looked like anytime i got up, the thread had moved somewhere else.

All in all, it just didn't work out. I tend to drop out of a game when I feel that for me it has stopped being fun for good, and let people know that. I think it is fairer than dragging myself on for two more months while the game turns sour for everyone else due to the dead weight.

If there is still some tiny spot left, might there be some consideration for GM services rendered? ;)

Yes. But these plots aren't "very much in-theme". Theme of DnD at these levels is either "I kill things and take their stuff" (that's pretty much level-independent) or "I do crazy things with my awesome power" or "I'm a high fantasy hero on a quest to save XXX" (often overlaps with option two).

Errmm... I am sorry? For you not having had any game that was not entirely dungeon focused. Sure, they are fun, and in all honesty, they are what Paizo does best. The system has more available than that, though. Really, if you were going "Power, more power!"... why bother with D&D, some superhero RPG might be a better choice. Besides, having awesome power is ok. It is nice, really. But what kind of "awesome power" do you get? There's quite a lot of those who don't require a key to every lock. A few locks might actually be more interesting keyless.

At least, that's what the system actually supports (as opposed to "can be made to support if you bend it hard enough"). None of them particularly benefits from derailing the main story with information-gathering sidequests. Poring through dusty tomes or cajoling NPCs into spilling the beans is so low level. Also, I don't remember many high fantasy heroes doing that. Of course, in the right hands such sidequests can be fun - but they are not intristically better, that going straight for the main goal. Also, ability to cut on the potentially boring parts and jump straigth into the action can actually benefit the game. And if one Ultimate Temple of Doomy Doom absolutely must remain hidden...

Oh? About any jungle adventure features that? Just because you don't like legwork, and are very goal focused player doesn't mean it can not, and should not have place in the game. "This is so low-level"? Sorry, but i Indiana Jones is not low-level, and look at the three good movies - he does a lot of very exciting legwork in the Quest for the Holy Grail.

Just as there are good and bad dungeons, there are good and bad "town" parts. I'd like to keep them.

...then no, giving it such an aura would be better. First, it is better to have an option that can be, sometimes, countered, that not to have an option.

Why not go the other way around, like a more limited spell? I mean, if you need the fast-track, great. Give your group the route. So if you have the "map", by some means or gimmick to divine this one path - fine. If not, great. You need to find your "map" then. Two options for the writer now, where previously there was only one - that's a clear gain in my book.

I am not saying there can't be any way of navigating magically. I am against the "one size fits all" solution that shifts the default towards "X is reachable", because as open as that sounds, it cuts off more in options than "Some places are reachable".

Second, just as presenting worthy opponents for high-level heroes (you can replace them in this phrase with any iconic powerful characters, such as Jedi, comic superheroes, etc) would be totally better than stripping them of their signature abilities, so that even mooks can threaten them (note, that invulnerability to mooks shuts down way more typical fantasy plots than any single spell).

Errmm... don't quite follow here. I don't see too many problems with "Invulnerable" characters from a play perspective. It is just not very exciting to have 35000 attack rolls against the damn fighter.

Besides, lost cities and ancient, forgotten ruins are really defining to the genre - just as seemingly overpowering figures of great evil are. One effect reinforces these genre conventions, the other erodes them. Guess which one i like better?

If you think, that "closing potential plots" is a valid reason for avoiding the spell, then standard DnD (pre-4th edition) is not the system for you. As well as any system with powerful and versatile supernatural abilities.

Well, i could write up a nice flame from that sentence alone, but will not do so. I don't s!%! where i eat, so to speak. Suffice to say, my preferences are as valid as yours, and "go play 4th Edition" is not any argument. In addition I'll have you know that i played and enjoyed White Wolf's Exalted for quite a while.

Sorry, but it is just that simple.

Funny, 90% someone says that to me, they are covering their rear end because they are out of real arguments.

Complaining about the fact that you can read thoughts, instantly heal anything (even death, eventually), spy from afar, teleport and do other stuff that utterly invalidates certain plot twists, in DnD 3E is about as productive, as complaining about the fact that characters can bypass or instatly solve tons of mundane challenges with their flight, superspeed, incorporeality, telepathy and whatever in superhero games. Having strong powers with wide non-combat utility = being able to easily overcome challenges by applying them. Deal with it, be imaginative, and do not create plots that can be automatically resolved by your party's abilities. Or, I don't know, ban spellcasters and do not allow characters to advance above 5th-6th levels.

And here you misrepresent my point. I am not saying "Heroes should have no abilities that allow them to bypass otherwise significant obstacles. I am questioning, rather actively, if a certain power is wise to include in the game, and if it is furthermore wise to allow it at comparatively low level. While the word is horribly abused in many internet debates, here you really are putting up a strawmen.

What i am saying is: Several of the readily-available divinations are easily able to ruin otherwise very much in-theme plots and stories, and require copious amounts of "anti-rules" to avoid overarching consequences. It would be better to remove or restrict some of these abilities rather than put up hundreds of forcefields, and give any ancient temple an aura of improved misdirection with magic dampening.

Also, DnD's basic rules do not meet "various styles", unless you mean "basic rules with a ton of houserules (or, maybe, stealth nerfs)", of course. Like all systems, DnD imposes a certain playstyle and, through it, genre. Cope with this or change this, but this is a fact. Not "assumption". Solid fact, clearly stated by dozens upon dozens of spells, that DO overcome just about any mundane challenge that you can imagine. DEATH is hardly a problem by 11th level. Why saving some time on searching for forgotten cities should be one for people that, you know, can communicate with gods?

Ah, "this is a fact". See my comment regarding "it is just that simple". Saying something is a fact does not make it one. I have successfully played and GMed anything from a heroic, save-the-world asskickery scenario to a lord of the flies-esque game to your generic dungeon crawl to the AoW path. Very different styles of play, very different levels and very very different world assumptions.

Just to answer a specific point: Communicating with Gods is described as very risky business even in the spell description itself. You might want to keep it this way.

Quoting cut off the rest of your post, so any points you might have made further down are not part of this reply. Suffice to say, you seem quite set in your view of "proper play", and that is your right. I have a different view, and naturally would like a system that represents this (i dare think, wider) view of things.

Consider it this way: It is always easier to introduce something into a system and setting than to excise. If something is potentially troubling and gives no clear benefit, this alone gives me a good hunch which way to go with it.

Err... Sorry, but come again? I am forcing you to conform to what now? All i am saying is that this spell closes off a lot of potential plots, and thus should be avoided.

If anything you are trying to enforce you assumption ("magic should overcome anything i consider mundane by character level X"). If you feel comfortable with this, fine. Its well within your power to allow it. But the basic rules should really try and meet most styles, not just the one you are into - and that means that some effects might not really be the best fit.

It shows ;)

Seriously, though. Why not a "Find Murderer" Spell. You speak the name of a victim, and it unerringly leads you to all guilty parties involved in the murder?

I can tell you why not: Nothing to do for the party other than roll fights. It is just more interesting if things can get off the map, and not only by people actively not looking for it.

Uh, I for one consider "Children of the Void" anything but easy. What specifically strikes you as "pulling punches"?

Ok, there is no Xenesha in Second Darkness (yet...), but that encounter was frankly just over the top. Other than that, I see a solid mix of easy and harder.

Divinations are very tricky business. They can easily be plot-hosers and even world-hosers. I would vote to kick Find the Path once or twice more, to let to go from Death's Door to solidly buried. Adding defenses against them... yeah. You could just as well say the PC ability works only when you want it to work. At least my players are not very forgiving for that kind of thing, especially if they consider it part of their "arsenal".

Maybe some smaller, leaner and more sensible variant could be found eventually, but as it stands, the spell has huge potential to ruin everyones game, with little benefit

Frankly, i am at a loss to see an adventure supporting application that is not extremely lazy writing. "You cast find the path and find the ruins of XYZ" is just not very engaging. It makes my ask "why has noone tried that one before?"

The orders shipped October 10th and 24th, respectively. Both bound for Germany

Oddly enough, i got both PF14 and 15 packages yesterday. If i had to hazard a guess, i would say i had the bad luck of being stuck just after a shipment container filled up.

I'm good now, though.

I was wondering why noqual weapons are cheaper than their mithral counterparts, since a noqual weapon has bonuses to damage some creatures that a mithral weapon doesn't, but everything else about the two weapons is identical. Is that intended as a compensation for the fact that noqual weapons realistically won't be made into magic weapons?

Wouldn't a +1 noqual chain shirt be 10,250 gp - adding in the materwork cost?

If you want to give a bonus to Mithral weapons, I found "always counts as a light weapon" to be nicely in-theme for the material.

I rather like the idea to give each character one final reading not during, but after Crown of Fangs. Kind of like the outro-scenes of Fallout 1 and 2, where the future history of the places you visited is detailed. This might not be a crunchy benefit like the HDoMT, but i think it has lots of style potential, and makes for a more memorable campaign conclusion - especially if you do not cheat, and get true matches on the Rakshasa, Beating and Lost ;-)

Seriously though, I think it would be a great way to make just such a "sendoff" happen.

The same went down here. I threw them a bone and gave them a Celeste in full celestial regalia to help them out of the Wightocalypse. Mostly because i had no plan whatsoever, and wanted to do a Gathering of Winds first to have time to catch my breath and plan.

Eventually i send them back to the wight-infested city, where they got their chance for a rematch with Deathknight Raknian - while they tried to prime what amounted to a magical nuke (shunting the city into the ether counts as pretty much that... :) ) in order to at least stop the cancer of undeath from spreading any further.

Unless you add something extremely off-the-rails, i will forward you to Eel's End in about... say... 12 hours from now.

Have fun.

Oh, and when did the Claimer fall in with the Kuthite (sp?) church? I remember him as the Runelord of Greed.

Alright... somehow this game doesn't quite work for me. It alternates between hectic action where i can only read up on pages of action, and nothing to do.

Sorry, I don't want to make anyone sour - but it does not work for me. I wish you all a ton of fun.

I haven't got it either... german postal service sure does suck. I'm giving it another two weeks before seriously getting worked up, though.

How exactly you carry your valuables around is really up to you. So yes, now that you mention it, I'll assume you split it around. I am usually not that hard-assed on acting out "everyday activities", it is enough you mention it somewhere. :)

Eel's end is oogles of fun, especially with very moral characters. Don't worry. :)

After passing around a bottle of some heavy, syrup-like beverage whose alcohol content was enough to send a sharp smell wafting through the room even when it was unstoppered, Trep sat down. He took another long look at Krek, and shook his head. "The King of Spiders is Bad News. With a capital Bad. He's got his thumb seriously on Eel's end, and much of the shipping, too. Lots of easy lasses and some lads. I've only met him when i f*##ed up royally, and then he just called me up, told me to get the hell out of Eel's End, and never come back. S+#@, i had to pay some serious bribes left right and center to get allowed back."

He scratched the back of his head, which unfortunately just resulted in a shower of dandruff, all the more proof just how little care he took of himself. "Well, he's supposedly got dirt on just about anyone. City Guard, Noble Houses, if you got any vice at all, he knows it by heart. Some pin him as head of the Ceruleans, even. That, and he's got all these creepy spiders scuttling all over him. Really nasty critters, but they never bite him. I'd not bet on any other's safety, though."

"Bezze, on the other hand. He's just a regular smalltime crook. Sells on the Dragon's Breath. Main supplier for Eel's End. All the ladies on the take also get from him. Don't fall asleep, though - might as well give him all your stuff then."

Sense Motive DC 10:

Sense Motive DC 29:

That movie...Why the heck would aliens allergic to water invade EARTH!? That was lame.

Well, because they had no idea the planet contained so much of the blasted stuff? I mean, it's not as if it covered a significant amount of the planetary surface, or... well... i don't know. Build up in some kind of clouds that are well visible from space?

Oh wait... er...

Actually, all metric nations should be using Kelvin since it's based on an absolute constant, whereas Celsius is completely relative and means nothing to non-earthlings.

Why should any aliens care what temperature an odd chemical compound freezes or boils under certain rather arbitrary assumptions regarding ambient pressure, ...?

I am no physicist, but Kelvin strikes me as no more or less arbitrary than Celsius. Sure, absolute 0 is absolute 0, but the scaling is just chosen at a constant that is relevant for us, but the Gas-Swimmers of Ganothrel might find it unbelievably far-fetched and clumsy.

Just to throw my money into the hat: I like low levels best. While i do not intent to drop any subscriptions over this (might have to do because of employment issues, though), i would much prefer you stayed with the 1-X model. Maybe play a little with the higher end, but starting off as "newbies" just never gets old in my book.

I'll update tomorrow... tired now, me sleep. ;)

Shelyn's the goddess of beauty (among other things), so she's not too interested in clothes)

A fashion designer's nightmare, she is. :)

I'm not complaining, though. Some Cheesecake is ok, just when everything remotely female has clothing measured by square inches, I begin to grow annoyed.

As i previously stated: Shelyn is just lovely. Having some flesh on her bones just added to that. The weird wasp-like suit Calistria is wearing really pushes up her "revenge" aspect, i think. Not a bad choice, and wow... was this "called cheesecake" not taken?

Still, some more clothes on Sarenrae, Desna and Shelyn wouldn't have hurt anyone. :)