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Imron Gauthfallow

Tequila Sunrise's page

3,428 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Of all of the rulesets inherited from Dungeons and Dragons 3.0, the Cleric of an ideal, or essentially the godless clerics has always been the one that grinds my garters.

It always came off as for what it was originally intended... a sop to please Fundamentalist mommies and daddies that their local Dungeon Master wasn't going to introudce Tommy and Susie to pagan worship.

Hm, I had never considered that possibility.

I always figured that the philosophical cleric was the result of wanting to give players the opportunity to play a healer without the religious baggage, while feeling constrained from making a new class for the concept by game tradition. (Or simply free up all casters to heal.)

Anyway, thanks for an angle I had never considered. :)


Ethereal Gears wrote:
All of this is of course aside from the purely design philosophical considerations that Charlie Bell outlined. I totally get that angle. I'm just trying to find a way for it to make sense from an "in-world" perspective. I appreciate that both HD and BAB are abstractions, but there are varying degrees of abstractions, and at the end of the day two creatures with identical to-hit but different BAB progression/Str scores ought to represent something story-wise, at least in my book.

This is a case of apophenia, which I went through as well. For PCs, BAB represents martial skill and general bad-assery; monster types each have chassis; all of this combined with our natural apophenia creates the strong sense that there's some in-game rhyme and reason to it all.

Of course we can come up with all sorts of post-hoc explanations. Like "Giant versions of normal animals have higher BABs (via more HD) because they tend to live longer and get better at biting stuff." But IMO, anything more than Charlie Bell's explanation rings hollow.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
captain yesterday wrote:
Dial A Swede, Google it, try it.

My girlfriend and I are totally doing this over the weekend. The 'Why is no Swede answering when I am calling?' FAQ made me lol. :D

Now I just have to think of a few questions to ask my random Swede.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
captain yesterday wrote:
So guess who gets to go out and price printers (which we need anyway) and get some character sheets printed so I can fill out 70% of it after the important stuff like abilities are rolled and shopping is done. :-)

I feel as if I'm the only gamer for who still hand-writes his character sheets on scrap paper. Or maybe hand-written CSs were never a thing, just my thing...

*Bah, get off my lawn!*


3 people marked this as a favorite.
captain yesterday wrote:
We are Strike Team Delta Whatever, striking out surgically from Battlestar Galactica (the General).

My gf has never seen BSG.

Obviously I must remedy this tragedy.


My last group had one woman out of 5-6 gamers, and she was treated like everyone else. This sunday I played a session with a new group, which has 4 out of 7. Two of the four were treated just like every man gamer I've ever known, but the DM treated his wife and daughter poorly a couple of times.

HeHateMe wrote:
Ralphie O'Reilly wrote:
So now I still play Pathfinder. I love Pathfinder. But I only invite people I feel comfortable playing with.
Only gaming with people you're comfortable with is something that I think transcends race/gender/religion/sexual orientation and falls into the "good policy in general" category. So much can go wrong when gaming with absolute strangers, and there are alot of creepy people out there.

While it is true that strange gamers are a mixed bag, I'm not so quick to assume that strange gamers create the same number or type of problems for DMs, regardless of a DM's gender. Unlike Ralphie, for example, I'm a guy and I've not once experienced a strange argumentative player. Usually they're just maddeningly flaky.


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Happy birthday, TOZ!

Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Quite suddenly, I've found myself looking forward to two weekends of in-person gaming with new groups! Pretty sure one of them isn't going to work out long-term, for scheduling reasons. But hey, they're both 4e groups!!!

This Sunday's game was great fun. Everyone was fun, engaged, and pleasant, with brief exceptions. (See below.) My character was gloriously foolhardy, and ended up delivering the killing blow to a dragon at session's end. There were only two flies in my pudding.

Despite being freshly bathed and de-odorized, I probably ended up smelling of less than roses. I for some reason just could not get my blood sugar down, despite eating nothing for hours. Ugh! Also, I am a New Yorker in Arizona. So I was quite sweaty by session's end.

And the host did a couple of things to his wife and daughter that put me off. The kind of things that may be less-than-idealistic-but-understandable-in-a-family-context-which-I-don't-k now, or may be signs of serious abuse. None of the other players seemed surprised or phased by them, and I don't make a habit of judging people based on brief and half-aware observations, so none of us commented and the game went on. I probably won't be rejoining this group for scheduling reasons, but I can't help but wonder how this group would play out if I continued gaming with them.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Quite suddenly, I've found myself looking forward to two weekends of in-person gaming with new groups! Pretty sure one of them isn't going to work out long-term, for scheduling reasons. But hey, they're both 4e groups!!!

Spoiler:
Go ahead, I included that detail just to see your reaction. ;)

And because I'm late to the what-I've-played party...

AD&D 2e: I miss Tony DiTerlizzi's artwork, and Planescape.

D&D 3.x: "If only 3e-style multiclassing worked the way I want it to work" is pretty much the basis of my fantasy heartbreaker.

D&D 4e: Best D&D yet.

Blue Planet: A hard(?) sci-fi rpg that I played a few sessions of. Not my usual cuppa tea, but we were round-robin GMing, and one of the guys in the group loved it. It wasn't until the 2nd or 3rd session that I was like "Wait, you mean the computers in this game talk like the ones on Star Trek?!" The game probably gains purchase the more harder sci-fi you read.

Chaos Academy: An indie rpg I played once at a con. It was fun that once, but not my cuppa tea. Very rules-light, improv-heavy.

Vampire the Masquerade: I quickly decided that I detested the GM after the first session, so there was never a second.

Exalted 2e: Just a scene of pbp play, after which I gave up on the pbp format. Apparently 2e is super-broken anyway, so maybe it's better that I didn't continue the Exalted experience at that point in my life.


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Set wrote:
Ring_of_Gyges wrote:

Necromancy is an awkward school, most schools are defined by the type of thing they do: illusion spells create false sensory stimuli, evocation spells create and manipulate energy, conjuration spells produce stuff, etc... Necromancy is mainly defined by tone. For example, Horrid Wilting does AoE damage by manipulating an element, but it's creepy so its necromancy rather than evocation.

Illusion is another odd duck. Create light *or* darkness, and it's evocation. Create sounds, and it's evocation. Create *colored* light, or sounds that sound like creatures or shadows, and it's illus-o-cation. Conjure energy or creatures from the positive energy plane or plane of fire or sixth layer of hell and it's conjuration. Conjure something from the plane of shadow, and it's illus-uration. (And conjure something from the negative energy plane and it's necrom-uration, because, screw you, school consistency!) Mind-affecting effects are enchantment, unless they are phantasms, in which case, illus-antment! (Again, with fear spells also being necrom-antment.)

Abjuration is in a similar position. While most schools are (or at least can be) defined by their means -- evocation manipulates energy, enchantment manipulates minds, necromancy manipulates the forces of life/death, etc. -- abjuration is defined by its ends. It protects...by a variety of means.


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captain yesterday wrote:
I have a weakness for plant toxins and I'm allergic to spruce trees.

You sad, sad excuse for a hippy.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Drejk wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
So... How do I order the British groom? How much for Henry Cavill?
If you add Emma Watson to your order, I'll split the two-for-one rate with you.
Noooo! We want to keep her on our side of the pond! Go find your own!

We'll trade her back to you in return for the NHS.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Katrina Sinclair wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
So... How do I order the British groom? How much for Henry Cavill?
If you add Emma Watson to your order, I'll split the two-for-one rate with you.
The two for one rate only applies to deliveries in Utah, I'm afraid.

I have East India membership.

I get special rates on the f@*&ing moon. And Mars soon.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Celestial Healer wrote:
So... How do I order the British groom? How much for Henry Cavill?

If you add Emma Watson to your order, I'll split the two-for-one rate with you.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

So I am now a transhuman.

I've been on my new insulin pump for a full day now, and I may need to go from a feast-or-famine meal schedule to a more birdlike one, but so far so good.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Neal Litherland wrote:

Masters of disguise, these characters are one-half monk, and one-half hitman.

Sound like someone familiar?

I see what you did there, and I like it. :)


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Freehold DM wrote:
Orthos wrote:
King Yesterday of Pillowpia wrote:

I really like the Warpriest.

installs an outer wall of transformers talking pillows, sure to repel whatever android army Orthos could possibly send at me

In fact, I like them better than Paladins and Anti-Paladins.

Now, to get the flame thrower and take out the outer wall.

Hey, I'm chill with people liking what they like.

I don't like Rogues or Clerics (at least since the introduction of the Oracle) either, but a lot of people do. Cool with what's cool for you.

Just won't catch me playing one =)

As I stated before, I have always felt these new classes would be better served as archetypes- even as powerful as some of those archetypes might be. The oracle makes me reconsider my hatred of new classes- yes the iconic oracle is smoking hot, but the things the class brings to the game are a true breath of fresh air, especially considering how stale the cleric can be at times.

I remember talking to you about this at some point, but why don't you like new classes Freehold? Or maybe a better question is: Conceptually, what's the difference between a class and an archetype?

I'm not very familiar with PF archetypes, but for a while now I've thought that which concepts get expressed as a class vs. as a prestige class/kit/variant, or even a feat is largely arbitrary. Remember when the druid was the PHB's example of a specific-mythos priest? I do wish there was more consistency when it comes to this sort of thing.


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Celestial Healer wrote:
I finished watching the new season of The X-Files. Meh. Was it always that over the top? Maybe I remember it being better than it was.

I remember enjoying it with a healthy dose of "Just go with it..."

That doesn't mean that the new season isn't more, though.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Aranna wrote:

Idiot drivers... they totaled my Cavalier and my Neon.

There ARE countries which require far more rigorous driver training, more akin to the sort of training NobodysHome and I received. ALL countries should require such training.

BAH! BIG GOVERNMENT! INEFFICIENCY! FREEDOM FOR AMERICANS! CUT TAXES, NOT DRIVERS! MORE JAIL FOR OFFENDERS! WE DON'T NEED NO EUROPEAN SOCIALISM HERE! *RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE*


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:

I am drunk. Religion was mentioned. I don't know whats going on really, so I'm just going to wave this flaming bike around blindly.

flail

I am now imagining you wearing a rabbi's robe in the desert, asking a burning bike what its name is.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Redbeard the Scruffy wrote:
Tac, I understand that, but then man up (or woman up, as may be the case) and just admit it. Don't throw out some stuff about the new kid being so much work you have no possible time ro game, yet you have grandma watching her every Sunday night to go out and get wasted at the bar, or the job has zero schedulable free time, yet your standing appointment at the gym class hasn't fudged. I can't stand the deceit. Legitimate excuses - if they actually were the real excuse.

Yes, it is supremely aggravating when someone can't bring themselves to say "I like gaming, but it's somewhat down my list of hobbies, so I won't be playing when it conflicts with one of those." I get it, but I'm no less annoyed for understanding.

It's one of the factors which has led me to miss actual gameplay less than I used to.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
captain yesterday wrote:

I am just now watching Age of Ultron for the first time. I don't watch a lot of movies, next up, Antman, which looks great.

I didn't really like marvel comics as a kid, but even I admit they make way better movies then DC

As someone who's never read a DC or Marvel comic, I was weirded out by the Antman trailer. Not that I'd turn my nose up if I had a friend who was all psyched to see it, but the trailer just made me go '...Srsly?' A guy who can beat the p!ss out of bad guys...but only when he's tiny? I'm sure it makes some kind of sense within its own story, but the concept seems so bizarre, even for a superhero universe.

That said, I have a low tolerance for certain kinds of weirdness. I enjoy the Avengers movies despite the premise.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
mourge40k wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Yogurt sans fruit is not worth eating.
There's other types of yogurt?

No, no there are not. There are only lies and calumny.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Yogurt sans fruit is not worth eating.


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Freehold DM wrote:
So which game should I get? Conquest(germanic) or Birthright(japanese)?

Hm, evil vs. non-quite-so-evil.

...Is there a game where you play both evils against each other in order to institute a humanistic society which unifies both, and fights for the citizenry?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'll keep my eyes open for Peete's and Arabica, thanks!

lynora wrote:
Redbeard the Scruffy wrote:

I can't believe putting a bed together is fun for cap.

I hate handy stuff. I needed a vacation after installing locks on our cabinets yesterday, and God help me if there's a leak in something. If duct tape and gorilla glue doesn't fix it, it ain't getting fixed.

I also disdain lawn work, cars (driving and fixing especially) and sports of all stripes, from football to golf and everything in between. That's why I don't shave. Gotta prove I'm a male in a more legal way than walking around pantless.

Really? I love putting furniture together. This week I got to assemble a couch and a desk. It was awesome. Yes, I am the kind of person that will beg to be allowed to assemble other people's furniture if I know they are going to Ikea. :P

Assembling furniture is like playing with Legos on a grand scale. :)

But I am totally with you on the lawn work . That is somebody else's problem. My husband feels the same way, which is why we live in an apartment. No yard work. :)

Same here. I hate repetitive weekly chores, but I'm totally down with the handiwork. I'm finally making enough money that having my oil changed is a non-issue, but I change my own and my gf's oil -- go ahead, laugh ;) -- because it's so...satisfying.

It's not WOOT! YAHOO! fun like gaming is fun, but yeah, I likes it. :)


Freehold DM wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Rosita the Riveter wrote:
We currently sell carrot cake flavored coffee at work. Not sure how I feel about this. Carrot cake coffee doesn't sound right. A slice of carrot cake with a cup of coffee on the side? That sounds awesome. Carrot cake in the coffee? That's off putting.

Coffee flavors go over my head. Vanilla this, pumpkin spice that, cinnamon whatever.

Tastes like coffee to me.

Rosita the Riveter wrote:
Then again, flavored coffees really need sugar to bring the flavor out, and I typically take my coffee black. Black flavored coffee just has a weird aftertaste I don't like, and I'm not swotching back to sweetened coffee.

Wouldn't you want to go back to sweetened if black has a weird aftertaste?

Just recently I've gone from needing creamer and sugar with every cup to just creamer sometimes. I must be growing up or something. :p

On the rare occasions I drink coffee it is always with cream(or milk if no cream is available), no sugar.

Well, ya learn something new everyday, and this is mine. I only became a coffee-drinker last year, so this is all pretty new to me. To be honest, most mornings I'd rather have a Pepsi to wake me up. Damn those water-droplet vending machines!

Anyhow, suggestions for what qualifies as good coffee? Is it something I can pick up at the local grocery store, or will I need to find a farmer's market or quality food store?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rosita the Riveter wrote:
We currently sell carrot cake flavored coffee at work. Not sure how I feel about this. Carrot cake coffee doesn't sound right. A slice of carrot cake with a cup of coffee on the side? That sounds awesome. Carrot cake in the coffee? That's off putting.

Coffee flavors go over my head. Vanilla this, pumpkin spice that, cinnamon whatever.

Tastes like coffee to me.

Rosita the Riveter wrote:
Then again, flavored coffees really need sugar to bring the flavor out, and I typically take my coffee black. Black flavored coffee just has a weird aftertaste I don't like, and I'm not swotching back to sweetened coffee.

Wouldn't you want to go back to sweetened if black has a weird aftertaste?

Just recently I've gone from needing creamer and sugar with every cup to just creamer sometimes. I must be growing up or something. :p


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Redbeard the Scruffy wrote:

I don't understand the point of the rule forums (outside of PFS).

If you're a player, ask your GM. It doesn't matter what the strangers on the internet's opinions are - if he disagrees you can't show him the thread and overrule him!

If you're the GM, just make a ruling. It's entirely up to you anyway - just got with what seems right and fair to you, because if the official answer doesn't seem fair, you'll houserule or tweak anyway.

Sometimes the interweb has better rulings than I do.
Yes, on occasion.

Indeed. I am of course the Tony Stark of ttrpgs, but every once in a greeeeeeeeeeat while, someone else thinks of something that I have not.

;)


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Redbeard the Scruffy wrote:

I don't understand the point of the rule forums (outside of PFS).

If you're a player, ask your GM. It doesn't matter what the strangers on the internet's opinions are - if he disagrees you can't show him the thread and overrule him!

If you're the GM, just make a ruling. It's entirely up to you anyway - just got with what seems right and fair to you, because if the official answer doesn't seem fair, you'll houserule or tweak anyway.

Sometimes the interweb has better rulings than I do.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tacticslion wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Nope, i can resist this sort of nonsense, it has absolutely no effect on me whatsoever.
Wwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Because the Flying Spaghetti Monster has blessed us all with religious freedom.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
captain yesterday wrote:
Someone donated their entire dragonlance collection, and they had the entire Twilight series, in collectible hardcover, I got the first book for Scruffy, thus forcing someone else to have to search endlessly to complete the collection.

I used to like the DL novels. But then I reread the first couple of chapters of The Chronicles as an adult.

Baaaaaad idea.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
captain yesterday wrote:
Who now?

Oh, just a Long Island jew I used to know.

Thanks for the reminder, it's my first V-day with the gf. :)

Is there such a thing as too much chocolate? That was her Xmas gift...

Tacticslion wrote:

2) Food courts. They're basically the best.

3) Book stores. If a mall lacks book stores, it is* dead to me. (Yes, this even supersedes the Food Courts, hard as that may be to believe.)

You have (had?) a point. Food and books are two of my favoritest things. :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
captain yesterday wrote:
Well, you see, we dated, broke up, were just friends, dated again, lived together, got married...

...Ross Geller?

captain yesterday wrote:
moved west, had a kid, then moved back to the Midwest, all during my 17 year hiatus from gaming (I dislike 1st and 2nd edition, very much).

Can't say I have much positive to say about 2e myself, aside from the settings. Never really played anything earlier, though I am tempted to buy the OD&D pdf just to see for myself what the game was at the very start. (Well, as much as any point in a thing's history can be said to be its 'very start.')


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I find malls dull at the best of times, and overstimulating at the worst.

But then, I've never been a window- nor a spree-shopper.


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Tacticslion wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:
enjoying a gamer girlfriend
Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Sadly I'm not doing any gaming myself,

Hey! Heeeeeeyyyyyyy~! TS! Good to see you here!

I strongly recommend trying out some solo games!

They can be pretty great, though, of course, the pacing and structure is vastly different from multi-party games.

Glad you seem to be doing well!

HELLO 'LION!

I may give solo play a shot if I can find the time...though to be honest, I have as much fun writing games as I do playing them. :)

Celestial Healer wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:

Also, Arizona sounds lovely. Why is that?

BECAUSE IT'S COLD AS F#$+ OUTSIDE.

FREEHOLD!!!!!!!

CELESTIAL HEALER!!! How are things in NYC? In finance? In gaming?

Going well! I'm engaged, which is exciting. The big day is in December.

Work is good. Gaming, not so much apart from PbPs. Nothing like our awesome one-shot.

Congrats, that's wonderful! Just please please don't get married in a non-climate-controlled barn in Rochester. ;)

captain yesterday wrote:

I have a gamer wife. :-)

I mean kind of, she wasn't one when we got married, but she has fun with it. :-)

Nice! How long did it take her to join you?

My gf is more into digital and board games than ttrpgs, but she's played a couple of sessions of PF so I can already talk to her about D&D tropes and quirks. :) Also, I have free access to Dragon Age through her laptop. Which is a totally new game for me!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Celestial Healer wrote:

Also, Arizona sounds lovely. Why is that?

BECAUSE IT'S COLD AS F#$+ OUTSIDE.

FREEHOLD!!!!!!!

CELESTIAL HEALER!!! How are things in NYC? In finance? In gaming?

Freehold DM wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:

HEEEY FREEHOLD!

...Didn't want to bump the other thread with a return greeting. ;)

I'm living in Arizona, working at a solar power plant, and enjoying a gamer girlfriend! What's up with you?

incredibly happy beyond words that you are happy with not just the move but the job and the girlfriend who games!

So good to see you are doing well.

For those who don't know, tequila is the FIRST PAIZONIAN I EVER MET IN REAL LIFE and introduced me to baron arem hasevaum and a few others. He is wonderful.

Aw, shucks! I'm glad to hear that things are better for you since the last we emailed. :)

How's the Paizo scene looking in NYC? Sadly I'm not doing any gaming myself, but as always, I am tinkering away at a fantasy heartbreaker. ;)


6 people marked this as a favorite.

HEEEY FREEHOLD!

...Didn't want to bump the other thread with a return greeting. ;)

I'm living in Arizona, working at a solar power plant, and enjoying a gamer girlfriend! What's up with you?


Krensky wrote:
And Paizo should pay attention to click bait from some mouth breathing hipster who can't tell Ian McKellen apart from Christopher Lee... Why?

A natural assumption, but you might want to watch the cast commentary of the LotR films before critisizing this blogger for not being able to tell actors apart.

Spoiler:
Or if you have other better things to do with those nine hours of your life, you can take my word for it: Lee was the LotR fanatic, and actually wanted to play Gandalf. I don't specifically remember anything about him memorizing the books, but I do remember someone saying that he read them thru once a year.

Steve Geddes wrote:
Sure - I understand the critique of the blog. I just dont understand the general level of vehemence.

I think it's an identity thing. Most D&D fans have rather particular lists of quirks that make D&D feel like D&D, and when they see those quirks criticized, we see these knee-jerk reactions.

Either that, or fans are genuinely afraid that a bunch of conservative Paizo devs will see some random blogger's diatribe against certain D&Disms and go "I know most of our fans seem to be happy with the legacy quirks in PF...but to hel with it, let's rock this boat!"


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Nathanael Love wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:
RDM42 wrote:
Cole Deschain wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
When someone says something that is unrealistic in my opinion, I say so and provide reasoning for my disagreement. Simple as that.

Indeed, there's a lot of reading intent going on here...

Could the Pathfinder rules be tidied up? Sure.

Could that be done while maintaining backwards compatibility with published material, which is one of the stated reasons why Pathfinder has its own rulebook in the first place? Far more challenging.

Could they do it without inventing a whole new raft of bugs that would have some people demand a third edition which radically changes things yet again?

*Compares various D&D editions*

My takeaway:
1. There will always be bugs.
2. So long as you're learning from past mistakes, the new bugs are lesser and less in number than the old. PF is itself proof of this.

*Looks at fifth edition with bugs that make 1st edition look goods*

*shakes head*

Nope. . .3.5 had by far the least bugs of any edition of D&D ever released. 4th edition was a massive step backwards and 5th editions bounded accuracy means that inherently, at its very heart the system is a bug.

Your response looks a lot like flamebait in the form of brash opinion stated as fact...but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you simply forgot to add "IMO."

That said, two questions spring to mind:
1. Which factors do you think led to 3.5 being the least buggy edition, including PF?
2. Do you primarily play 3.5? Why or why not?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
RDM42 wrote:
Cole Deschain wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
When someone says something that is unrealistic in my opinion, I say so and provide reasoning for my disagreement. Simple as that.

Indeed, there's a lot of reading intent going on here...

Could the Pathfinder rules be tidied up? Sure.

Could that be done while maintaining backwards compatibility with published material, which is one of the stated reasons why Pathfinder has its own rulebook in the first place? Far more challenging.

Could they do it without inventing a whole new raft of bugs that would have some people demand a third edition which radically changes things yet again?

*Compares various D&D editions*

My takeaway:
1. There will always be bugs.
2. So long as you're learning from past mistakes, the new bugs are lesser and less in number than the old. PF is itself proof of this.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jim Landon wrote:
If one wants pathfinder 2.0 just go play 5th edition, well at least until they abandon it in favor of the next thing.

Yes, the advantage of having a less conservative fanbase is that your hands aren't tied behind your back when it comes to your game.* :) You can be creative, innovate, go retro, it's all good! Because every new edition will cater to some portion of your fanbase, thus pleasing more of them. Heck, the collectors will buy every new edition just because it has that logo on it.

The downside, of course, is that some of them will abstain from editions they don't care for, as I am now.

*Well, one hand is tied when it comes to WotC. :p


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Steve Geddes wrote:

I understand that fighters don't get a lot - my point is that backwards compatibility was a real straightjacket.

It was a self-imposed constraint that a Pathfinder fighter be basically "the-same-but-a-bit-better" as a 3.5 fighter - that constraint was hugely important to the fanbase.

Milo v3 wrote:
I actually think the biggest constrain on paizo innovation when it comes to fighters is the fanbase. Think about all the backlash from making classes that are better than the rogue at it's role, simply because they were making Better Balanced Skilled classes like investigator, inquisitor and slayer.

Yep, it's the double-edged sword of having a largely conservative fanbase: You get lots of brand loyalty, but you're constrained to making a better X, Y, and Z, rather than being free to simply make a better game.


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Avaricious wrote:

Hell why not make Pathfinder 2.0 Paizo's revision of WotC's 4E?

...I'll show myself out.

I'll show myself in. :)

...Though cleaning up all that brain matter would be a chore.

Spoiler:
'Cause, ya know, half of the fanbase's heads would explode. ;)


memorax wrote:
I see some influence of 4E when reading through 5E. Just rephrased differently. My opinion if they had no write the rules with a mmo vibe. I think 4E would have been more of a success. Then again it also shows how fickle gamers can be. A edition fixes most of the issues if a previous edition. Just not written in a style many liked. Followed by a edition which does the same thing written in a more famiar style yet no one says anything. Note I'm not saying it is or plays like a mmo.

"It's not what you said, it how you said it!"


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Just finished Fate/Stay Night, and I think it's allowed me to finally put some of my anime-thoughts into words:

I often get the sense that I'm missing a lot of philosophical themes when I watch anime. I don't know how much of it is my tendency to miss dramatic subtleties in general, how much is due to the themes being lost in translation, and how much of it is culture clash. Or maybe I'm just overthinking things, and not missing anything.

Anyhow, an example from Fate/Stay Night: Shirou is an idealist who wants 'a world where nobody cries.' During the course of the show's two dozen episodes, several characters ridicule his idealism, calling him a 'hypocrite' for caring more about others than he does about himself. And I don't know what to make of that. It sounds a lot like the 'Nobody is selfless because everyone who helps others gets something out of it, even if it's just a warm bubbly feeling' nonsense. But maybe 'hypocrite' is the closest translation of a Japanese word that we don't have; or maybe it's just a bad translation.

Anyhow again, Night has proven to be as visually spectacular as Zero. The dialogue was a bit slow at times for my taste, and some of the characters' actions made me facepalm. (You just got done telling Shirou how much easier it is to kill masters than servants...so why are you ignoring the enemy master?!) But overall a fun watch.


chbgraphicarts wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:

I think it's interesting how very progressive this company and much of its fanbase can be, while at the same time being so conservative when it comes to game rules.

I suppose it just goes to show how compartmentalized we humans can be.

Well, part of it comes from years of getting burned by massive rules overhauls.

...

So when the idea of a "2nd Edition" pops up, a large amount of the fanbase starts getting PTSD flashbacks to the 2nd-3rd, 3.5/4E changeover nightmares and worry that they're going to relive it all over again, having to shell out lots of money just to buy the same basic material they had before all over again JUST to keep up-to-date with the basic game rules.

Thanks for your insight, chbgraphicarts. I'm not sure what a war vet would say about 'edition changeover PTSD,' but it does explain some of the reactions we see in these threads. And why so many 'game conservatives' feel the need to chime into these threads to say the same things that they said last time -- to avoid more PTSD, they have to make sure that Paizo knows they don't want a new edition!

chbgraphicarts wrote:
And now 4E-lovers are feeling the same sting with 5th Edition, since 5th Ed has much more in common with 3rd Edition than it does with 4E, leaving those mountains and mountains of hardbound 4E books basically orphaned.

I don't think that the 4e fan reaction is coming from where you think it is though. Well, there probably are a couple of fans whose first ttrpg game was 4e whose reaction to 5e matches your description. But those of us who came to 4e from earlier editions are either able to convert whatever they want, or they don't care much about backwards compatibility. After all, we made the jump from 3.5 to 4e!

Like thejeff mentioned, for some of us it's about the rules themselves. For example, converting older stuff to whatever edition I'm playing is almost a non-issue for me. I've never carried a campaign over to a new edition, never felt the desire to port a character over to a new edition, and Planescape is the only setting setting from prior editions that I feel really strongly about. So I don't much care that my 2e and 3.x books are 'obsoleted' -- because hey, I can still mine them for ideas.

What I want is to play with the rules which best match my sensibilities and make it easiest for me to DM my game. Currently, those rules are contained in the 4e books rather than the 5e books, which is why I'm still playing 4e. If 6e is a better game by my standards, I'll happily buy into it. If PF ever changes enough to become a better game by my standards, I'll happily buy into it -- though that's probably never going to happen.


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I think it's interesting how very progressive this company and much of its fanbase can be, while at the same time being so conservative when it comes to game rules.

I suppose it just goes to show how compartmentalized we humans can be.


Greylurker wrote:


while I'm thinking about it. I got these Crunchyroll Guest passes if anyone wnats them. I always forget to hand them out so help yourselves

JFAHGQCUMJ7

Hey thanks, Greylurker, I can finally finish FMA Brotherhood! Among others...


Snowblind wrote:
As far as the HP thing goes, treating HP as meat points is just far more internally consistent than treating it as "luck" and "near misses". In fact, can anyone find any part of the system where treating HP as meat points leads to absurdities (other than the fact that people actually get naturally tougher in various ways when their HP goes up, which is the premise of the meat points=HP concept)? Because I don't know of any, but I can think of many internal inconsistencies in the HP=luck, close shaves etc abstraction. Terminal falls, lava, fairly reliably surviving a shank to the throat(a level 20 character with loads of CON, great fortitude and a high class fort bonus can guarenteed natural 2 a STR 12 dagger coup de grace), getting breathed on by a dragon's breath that can melt steel while chained up in a cage sitting in the dragon's mouth while unconscious and paralyzed...and surviving. When HP=meat points, the response to all of this is "of course it doesn't kill him - He's damn tough with his 400HP".

Bob the 20th level fighter being no better at dodging/parrying than he was as a 0th level farm boy is the single glaring problem with hp = meat points.

But that's easy to remedy.


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All characters -- even bookworm NPC wizards who never use their dagger for anything more than cutting a rare steak -- automatically get better at stabbing things as they gain experience, at a gradual linear rate. (BAB)

But aside from the rare exception -- like the monk -- anyone who wants to learn how to dodge has to spend special resources to do so. (AC) Additionally, the most worthwhile dodge options create sudden dramatic improvements in a character's skill at dodging.

Meanwhile, non-combat skills advance at a gradual linear rate, but require intentional investment.

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