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Tels's page

RPG Superstar 6 Season Star Voter. Pathfinder Society Member. 7,817 posts (7,865 including aliases). No reviews. 6 lists. No wishlists. 11 aliases.

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Sara Marie wrote:




Oh god, Cosmo are Sara Marie working together? It's like Rovagug all over again.

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Got a few things to blame Cosmo for today:

I blame Cosmo for humanity adapting to the ambient temperature. This makes it so 32 degrees at the end of winter is warm, but 32 degrees at the beginning of fall is cold.

I blame Cosmo for how "cold" it's been recently. I've git a long sleeved shirt, a sweater, pajama pants and sweats on under my blanket and I'm still feeling cold.

I blame Cosmo that, despite the cold, my region in Alaska is, apparently, the only bloody place that didn't get snow! Seriously, there's like a horseshoe around the Kenai Peninsula and snow fell everywhere else. You made it cold enough to bring a chill, not cold enough to freeze the rain.

I blame Cosmo for 3 days of rain. Not just the rain from the sky either.

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Jamie Charlan wrote:
They also grow up into complete and utter murderhobos from their entire common-sense and nurturing being at the hands of frickin adventurers, but that's a minor glitch.

"Listen here honey, whenever you meet someone, if you can describe them using three or more adjectives, write their name down in your journal. Keep notes on them, because they're important."

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I blame Cosmo for this emotional roller coaster I'm on since my sister has asked me to help pick out the song for her wedding procession.

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I blame Cosmo for this song still making me scratch my head, even after hearing it years ago.

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Rysky wrote:
Cosmo's Slightly More Evil Twin wrote:
Tels wrote:
I blame Cosmo for this entirely rational desire to spend $300 on buying Nerf toys. I also blame him for the responsible side of me resisting this desire as there is no way I can afford to sink $300 into awesome toys.

I'll accept the blame for your desires, but I refuse the blame for your responsible decisions.



Some of these.

Some of these.
And some of these.

I have nephews. I would delight, most heartedly, in shooting them when I get the chance and then engaging in all out nerf warfare.

[Edit] Forgot to include one of these.

[Second Edit] I blame Cosmo for failing to include why I suddenly wanted lots of nerf toys (beyond being they're awesome). I read a review on the Nerf Rival and wanted them. It also had a clip of the machine gun in the previous edit. The 8 year old in me squealed in delight.

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I blame Cosmo for this entirely rational desire to spend $300 on buying Nerf toys. I also blame him for the responsible side of me resisting this desire as there is no way I can afford to sink $300 into awesome toys.

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I blame for a guy on my Facebook gaming group trying to sell a $17.99, 3 month Playstation Plus code, for $40...

I won't blame him if someone actually pays the asking price, because there is a level of stupidity there that I'm sure even Cosmo wouldn't touch.

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Michael_Hopkins wrote:
lemeres wrote:

I highly like the idea of kineticists as BBEGs. They are balanced enough that they are about toe to toe with most other classes in a straight fight, but they have a utility that lets them terroize the more mundane masses when you look at the larger scale.

These guys could turn an entire battlefield into WWI on their own. I mean...between fragmentation, explosion, and cloud, you have all of the heavy artiliary you typically see in such movies (you know the stuff- the ones that actually did the most murdering).

And of course, their mobility means they can zoom around, getting to the plot important locations before the players do. Doors? Oh, sorry, I rode in through my impaling spike. Took the gate keeper out while I did it.

I fully agree that they are great BBEG material, with highly thematic work ups, lairs, and battles. Assuming that a party consists of the four cornerstone roles, the fight is going to need to be somewhat out of the box, with lots of improv during the fight. Besides, walking into a stronghold, with bodies laying about, and then realizing it was only one thing that did in an army..... Oh, I am getting thoughts here!

You should see my Genbu build I linked above. Kinetic Whip, Kinetic Form, Whirlwind Attack means he's going to hit damned near every single person in the room. Also, Earth Glide so he can attack from anywhere in the room. Also, he was generated with the Heroic NPC stats (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) and NPC wealth for a Fast XP track game.

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I didn't see it get posted here, but I think this is important for geokinetics to have a little backing if they try this.

Link to Mark Seifter's Post.

Mark Seifter wrote:
Catharsis wrote:

Mark, a question came up in N. Jolly's Kineticist Guide thread:

When you Gather Energy, does the visible effect extend through walls? We were looking forward to using Silence to make Gather Energy work as a pre-combat buff without instantly spoiling the surprise. The visible component could presumably be hidden by staying behind a wall, but in tight quarters, that might cause spillage into adjacent rooms.

In your playtests, have you guys ever used full-round Gather? Did you figure out other tricks to make it work in everyday adventuring? s-guide-to-the#335

It probably shouldn't spill through walls unless the walls are weird. One of the best tricks with full round gather involves earth glide and is thus only relevant for geos. What you do is, round 1 you 5-foot step into the ground and full round gather. Round 2 you 5-foot back up, move gather, and blast.

Full round gather also tends to be particularly good with metakinesis (twice), since the full round part pays for all but 1 of the cost of that metakinesis, and that metakinesis generally doubles your round's output, so given that burstier damage all at once is harder to deal with for the enemy, it's pretty nice.

Another nifty use for full round gather, though pretty risky, is as a sort of "taunt" mechanic, and I've seen it used that way. Basically, the gist of it is that since kineticists often have tip-top defenses while standing in the back, hard for the enemies to reach, you can sometimes get them to redirect their fire to you if you bait them with a full round gather, kind of like how enemies often try to interrupt the full round spellcaster, since the action economy of smacking someone and messing up their action is so good, plus the burn. Of course the flipside is that if they succeed, then you took burn, so as I said, it's a risky tactic.

It's important that he says, not only that the gather energy won't leak through the walls, but that you can gather energy while earth gliding.

Personally, I was already going to rule it that way, but, from a rules-legal standpoint, my Genbu the Earthen King NPC just got even more terrifying!

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TomG wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
... it's not clear what happens to your equipment when you change size.

The (flavor?) text says "suspend your body in a large mass of elemental matter", so I'd go with a) no polymorph, b) equipment unchanged.

But that interpretation is trying to parse what is flavor and what is crunch, so it could be very wrong.

Okay, so I'm a halfling geokinetici. I'm about 3' tall and I use Kinetic Form. Now I'm sitting inside a 12' tall body that is, literally, 4 times my normal size. Essentially, I'm a fetus inside an earth elemental.

There is probably 1 foot of stone, or more separating my actual body, from the attacks of enemies. If you attack my kinetic form, all you're doing is slamming your weapons against stone.

Since I'm not actually being hit by anything, why do I even take damage?

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Erik Mona wrote:
Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
Erik, what are the chances for a Janira Gavix mini? She is racking up some serious PFS time!

That's pretty unlikely, as the character isn't really on my radar, I confess.

What makes you want a miniature of her?

What about a Laori Vaus mini?

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N. Jolly wrote:
I intend to do some work on this after the week long hiatus, but no promises, since I'm still somewhat burnt out.

I hear if you rest for 8 hours the burn will go away...

(not sure if intended pun or not)

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Not only that, but Mark and the rest of the team have been scarce since RPG Super Star went live. I imagine Mark's time will be in high demand for the immediate future.

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Mathius wrote:

Okay, I got give it up for that idea. Having to kill the lady 5 times to keep her down with a different set of guards in each place. Also easier to prepare since I only need one complicated NPC.

Since she does not have 9th level spells the AP can quite old and she will not be able to simply cast in again.

Magic jar questions.
1. Do you need line of effect back to your body?
2. Has it been determined witch spells go to the body and witch go to the soul?
3. If the host body dies do you need line of effect to the the gem?

Other questions.
1. What prevents Abrograil from simply grabbing a different mammoth?
2. What a good ways to help prevent simply dispelling the magic jar?
3. Clever PCs will grab the gem, teleport away and break it. What should prevent this?
4. I want this to take place in several different locations, how do the PC figure out where to go next?
5. Using AP can a caster go to the astral the use plane shift (or other means) to come back to the same plane?

Magic Jar:

1) Returning to your body seems to use the same rules as attacking a creature, so I'd probably say yes, but this is more of an inference than RAW. You can get around this because your body is treated as dead when you are in the jar or another body. Cast Shrink Item on your body, and keep it on your person. Then, when your host dies, attempt to possess other players. Once you've run out of possessions, return to your body and dismiss Shrink Item.

2) Officially? No, it hasn't. Personally, I go with anything that physically enhances the body in some way stays with the body. So spells like haste, stoneskine, enlarge person, bull's strength and so on stay with the body, while spells like protection from evil, owl's wisdom, mind blank, contingency etc, would stay with the soul.

3) You do need line of effect back to the gem. This one isn't hard to use either as it's perfectly reasonable for a Queen to have royal garb encrusted with gems. All you need is a single gem worth 100 gp or more, Queen Abrogail could have several of these on her at any one time. Which gem, is the one they need to steal or destroy?

Other questions:
1) Besides the fact that mammoths are very expensive at that level range, even for PC wealth? The size. Abrogail could use an item like the greater hat of disguise to get an all-day alter self effect, or she might only possess the mammoth when threatened. Either way, keeping multiple mammoths in close proximity to herself, inside a palace, truly stretches the limits of immersion. Feel free to make her attempt to possess the other PCs though.

2) Well, the best method I can think of that doesn't also block access to the gem for future use or for returning to her body, is having multiple gems. Targeted dispels need to target the gem to dispel magic jar (not the caster), but if she has, say, 20 gems (2,000 gp), which gem is the source of the Magic Jar? It's still vulnerable to an area dispel, to be sure, but that's a risk you'll have to take.

3) Multiple gems. Especially gems sewn into her clothing. If she has 20 gems, or more, sewn into her royal garb, each of 100 gp, each gem could be the target of the magic jar? Even a Wizard under the effects of an arcane sight spell could have difficulty determining which gem is which if she also uses a spell like magic aura to hide the gems. I could swear there was a published item that gave you access to magic aura as a polishing cloth at will, but I can't find it.
Such an item would be dirty cheap in the magic item creation rules, and it would be reasonable for Abrogail to have her servants polish the gems of her clothes every day using such a cloth.

4) Give the PCs knowledge of multiple locations that Queen Abrogail might take refuge at with the collapse of many/all of the protective wards on the palace. Each one should be a reasonably defensible place. Then, when the PCs make their attack, once Abrogail flees from one location, they can search for the other locations in the palace.

5) Yes. In fact, astral projection is one of the means of 'limited immortality' casters can employ. When you cast astral projection, your body is placed in suspended animation and doesn't age. Any and all items on your body at the time gain an astral version and function exactly like the items you carry. In fact, RAW, any item with a limited use is not consumed when you use the astral version. So if you have a ring of three wishes and use up all 3 charges while using astral projection the real copy on your body does not have any charges used.

As for Abrogail, she could be using lesser astral projection which only allows travel to the Astral Plane, and the plane you were on when you cast the spell. Returning to the plane you were on at the time of casting doesn't end the spell, you have to choose to end it, the spell has to be dispelled, or the silver cord must be severed.

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Ashiel wrote:

Another thing I'd like to bring up is you might consider your final encounter to actually be made of several encounters. Because of spells like clone or even astral projection, it's possible to encounter high end super bosses over multiple "phases" of the fight. It's actually not only possible for high-end bosses to be slain multiple times during the same encounter but it's downright practical for some of them.

When dealing with the queen of Cheliax, she may have some very impressive contingencies to her sudden demise. Perhaps after her former namesake, Abrogail the first was slain, she may have taken precautions. Maybe she's even signed an infernal contract so that when her soul reaches hell she is instantly made into a great devil as part of her dealings.

Without even getting too far flung, said sorceress could literally be slain 4 times without it getting too weird. For example, if she initially fought the party via astral projection she would have a copy of herself and her gear that she could plane shift back to the material plane while her body is in stasis. She then fights the party and gets defeated in phase #1. Redoubling her efforts, she then fights them for realsies, only to get slain in phase #2. She wakes up from her clone immediately when slain to teleport in an begin phase #3. When she is slain then, she finally returns to exact her revenge as a powerful evil outsider of immense power for phase #4.

Naturally additional minions and allies could add into each phase, such as her in final devil form swarming the city with devils through a gate spell or something, or otherwise doing all kinds of stuff worthy of Ghostbusters. You could really go nuts with it. :D

Just to spice things up a little, there's always using astral projection then casting magic jar into the body of a mammoth (for the low, low price of 15,000 gp, get youself a mammoth today!), then using alter self to appear humanoid. Fight as a mammoth, fight as a projection, fight as herself, fight as her clone, then fight her as a Devil.

Oddly enough, Mathias, you could actually use Queen Abrograil herself as the 5 encounters you need for the climactic finish of the game. Instead of handwaving the contingencies, you could write it off as the sale of the artifact removes many of the wards and protections surround the palace of the Empress leaving her vulnerable to an alpha strike. Have them fight Abrogail in multiple places all across the palace, each fight consisting of a different one of Abrogail's contingencies.

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Rynjin wrote:
Tels wrote:
I think people are just too focused on making the Kineticist have the same damage output as a Fast Bombs Alchemist, except able to do it all day long.
I've already told you this is wrong, so you can stop saying it now.

Nope, I can say whatever I please. This thread has several ideas with the sole purpose of practically eliminating downside to burn, or ramping up the power of the Kineticist. In various other threads, other people are desiring the same thing.

It seems there's this vocal group of people on the forums who have the intention to spread the misinformation that the Kineticist damage sucks, Burn is a horrible mechanic and that the Kineticist can't compete for a slot in a party with nearly any other class.

This is wrong information. Most of these people seem to use the Barbarian class as the bare minimum of what a DPR class should be. Or they use the Wizard as the bare minimum of utility, or the Bard as the bare minimum skill monkey.

So many people keep comparing the class to the top tier classes and finding them lacking. Reality check, all of the classes are lacking when compared to these classes in their given role.

"Kineticist doesn't have the same utility as a Wizard" Well of course he f@%&ing doesn't. Anyone who thought the Kineticist would have the same utility as a Wizard is a bloody moron. Wizard is a broken as hell class that makes nearly every other class feel impotent.

The Kineticist doesn't bring the utility of a Wizard, but he brings more damage to every fight. He doesn't bring the damage of a Barbarian, but he brings more utility. He's not a skill monkey, but he's got abilities to make many skills easier.

The Kineticist is 1 part skill, 1 part utility, 1 part damage. You are never going to boost one of the aspects of the Kineticist to the same levels of other classes that are sitting in the top tiers.

Get your head out of the DPR Olympics thread so you can see what the class really is.

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Mathius wrote:
My PC do not like it when I have caster target their water breathing with dispel magic. At one point the had 3 layers of it to prevent being dispelled. The got nervous when I got through 2 of them.

You don't always have to include a caster in a party to do this, however. You can even allay the fears of the party by having the sea witch tell them that she does not know of any magic users being involved in whatever missions she sends them on.

Sometimes, a band of raiding sea trolls is just a band of raiding sea trolls. Though if the investigate, they could come to find they're part of a larger sea pirate network.

Which is precisely what my cousin needed the above adventure I designed for.

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Ashiel wrote:
Scavion wrote:
Know any good nasty beasties to throw at a 6th level party of 4-5 mostly martial near a coastal region and may be crossing the sea at one point?

Well, there's the old fallbacks like sahuagin and merfolk with class levels, mixed with aquatic animals that they've trained. Both aquatic humanoids are amphibious so having things like merfolk land-pirates riding on the backs of giant crabs, crocodiles, or sea-hydras could be pretty sweet.

If you're looking for something with a bit more...depth (sorry, bad pun), you could have a sea witch (a merfolk cleric, druid, or wizard of 5th level with the strong tail racial option) approach the party via the coast and attempt to barter with them for removing some sort of nuisance that has moved into her domain, such as a group of sahuagin or fiendish sharks, or whatever. If the party agrees to help her out, she can cast water breathing on them (for 2 hours / person) to allow them to go into the coastal depths for an underwater romp.

If you're looking for an oceanic encounter on a ship, we could move back to the pirate bit and have a bunch of merfolk raiders use ropes and grappling hooks to ensnare a ship and use a giant whale to pull against the ship to moor it while they attempt to bore into the hull of the ship to sink it so they can loot it.

There's also the Cthulhu Crabs. Mustn't* forget them. Or the Scrag (sea trolls).

As a freebie, here's an underwater adventure I threw together for my cousin to run a couple years ago. It turned out to be a pretty killer adventure, because underwater is, pretty much, the most inhospitable environment in the rule book when it comes to combat.

The Caverns of Besmara's Cult (feast upon my crappy adventure desgin)

One should note, that Onaturlig the Sea Witch got, officially, errata'd out of existence as the Scarred Witch Doctor archetype is no longer Constitution based. Frankly, I don't care and I pretty much only pick and choose which pieces of errata I follow these days anyway.

*I've never spelled "mustn't" before. It looks weird, even if it is correctly spelled.

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Ashiel wrote:
I swear that girl will only be happy if I'm unemployed and spending my every moment running games for her. XD

It gives us monsters to be slain or it gets the hose again.

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Ashiel wrote:
Zilvar2k11 wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Aratrok wrote:
The current plan is that the standard recovery method for any "daily" resources is that a character can recover any of those resources they haven't used in the last 8 hours by resting/studying/meditating/practicing/whatevering for an hour.

Yeah, this is actually one of my favorite things because we're standardizing the way classes with daily resources recover them.

Some classes may have other resources though. One thing I'm looking into developing at the behest of my brother is a class that revs up with combat, similar to warriors from WoW. As in the class begins at 0 and each action generates more whupass power to be expended for liberal smackdowns and/or heroic action.

I look forward to working on it. :)

That could be difficult to balance. If you base the gain of whoopass on time spent in combat, you end up with insufficient WA points in short or less important fights (which there are typically more of). If you base it on damage taken, you end up with someone who rides the line of 'kill me so I can kill you better' and 'I'm dead/I'm a healing sponge'. If you base it on damage done, you encourage one-dimensional character advancement.

I wonder...maybe something like a swift-action ability that gives a whoopass point and increases the WA counter so that the next use gives an additional point (up to a cap of, oh, 1/4 level). Activation of most skills is a single point, but can scale up in effectiveness with more points spent.

Yeah, it's not escaped me that having less options for an alpha-strike is innately a major weakness, nor has it escaped me that a lot of people have extremely short encounters (and while I feel that ultimately this is due to poor encounter design more often than not, it's a thing that is commonplace) which would make it less than ideal.

The current theory I'm working with is a mixture of passive and active methods for generating your resource on the go, including but not limited to things...

So.... this class name is "the Avalanche" right?

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Azten wrote:
Azten wrote:

Guys, guys..

Air(Lightning) is perfect for something. Even just one level.

I'll return later. [/cackles madly.]

Here's a terrifying NPC.

** spoiler omitted **...

A round is 6 seconds. 10 rounds in 1 minute. 60 minutes in 1 hour. 600 rounds in 1 hour. This means that Agesthran can boost his con by as little as 600 points, or as much as 2,400 points in 1 hour.


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Deadbeat Doom wrote:
Interweave Composite Blast

Wait... my feat idea made it into the book? Frickin' sweet!

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Helix7901 wrote:

What I would really like to see in the Kineticist guide is a clarification if there is ever a situation where using Gather Power/Supercharge for a Full Round+Move Action is more effective than using it for two rounds in a row for two blasts with only a Move Action Gather each...

At higher levels, you can get double blast, which applies all of the modifications to your kinetic blast for no extra cost other than the cost of the double blast itslef.

Double Blast +4
Composite Blast +2
Empower +1
Explosion +4
Infusion Specialization -4
Supercharge -5

Total Burn 2

This lets you hit a group of enemies twice for the same standard action. Then you use your swift action for the follow up.

Composite Blast +1
Quicken +3
Explosion +4
Infusion Specialization -4
Internal Buffer -1

Total Burn 3

You've taken 5 points of burn this round (and lost 85 nonlethal hp), but you've hit the enemy for three separate blasts, two of which deal 18d6+1/2 con+50% points of damage and the third hititng for 18d6+1/2con points of damage.

So, somewhere in the realm of ~300 points of damage to every enemy in a 40 ft. radius sphere.

Save for half.

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Since I can't seem to upload stuff your shared folder, I figure I'd just use mine. This is my first attempt at creating a Kineticist since the release, and I think I got everything correct with him.

For those curious, he was built using the Heroic NPC stat array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) and designed for a campaign using the Fast XP track.

Genbu, the Earthen King.

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cavernshark wrote:
Tels wrote:
Sphynx wrote:

As a 6th level Kineticist, I only negate 1 point of burn from infusions, so I'm only using that to Extend my Range. I try to stay outside of 30', especially if I can do my move after hitting someone within 30' (and if they're within 30' I'll "Push" them further away from me with that extra point of damage).

As for talents, it's the basics of course. Finesse, Haul, and Self which I chose over Invisibility because I can fly past my allies which stops anything trying to chase me into melee. 7th level I'll pick up Air and Extra Talent my Invis into the combination.

Pretty sure the feat doesn't let you pick up talents higher than 1st level until you are 9th level. Doesn't it have the rider that you can only pick up talents 2 levels below your max? So at 7th level, you have access to 3rd level talents, but Extra Talent only lets you take 1st level talents (3-2=1). So you can't "Extra Talent invisibility" until 11th level.
This is correct. It almost seems like they intended Extra Wild Talent to be more useful on a secondary element to more quickly pick up a few lower level talents since the penalty isn't applied twice.

I'm, personally, planning on houseruling away the -2 penalty because I think it's a stupid penalty. It'd be one thing if all of the other classes had a similar limit, but it feels very arbitrary on the Kineticist.

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Just think, whatever doesn't kill you...

Sage Advice:
keeps you at the tender mercies of Cosmo's machinations.

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Kadulu wrote:
Catharsis wrote:
You're missing the fact that Gather Power can compensate for Empower and later (with Supercharge) for Composite.

Yes that is true but I feel like it isn't enough to compensate all the effects that you could add in order to get damage scalled compared to other classes.

Around lvl 15 for example a blast sorcerer or wizard will have quicken spell to do 2 fireballs with spell perfection and everything. The Kineticist does have metakinesis but getting a quicken on your blast is really expansive and it would probably be the only thing you Would apply to your blast in order to keep some resources for later combats. Added to that the wizard and sorcerer would do area damage, and additionally, the wizard has all the utilitarian spells that Kineticist can at best reproduce.

And let's not forget the non lethal damage...

But it is probably unfair to compare the kineticist to the tier 1 class. When compared to the ranger for example, it has strenghts that ranger doesn't have and vice versa. That's what I discovered from reading very carefully this class. That means, at least the class can be playable oppositly to what I said earlier :)

Your biggest hurdle is that you are looking at the kineticist through the eyes of 'primary blaster'. The kineticist can blast, but that's not the only thing he does. Other classes do blasting better because they are using vancian casting and vancian casting is designed around the idea of "this is limited in use so it needs to be very powerful". Also, broken.

You're simply not going to beat Wizards and Sorcerers who've built dedicated, or even marginally dedicated, blaster builds because they simply do it better.

Instead, look at the Kinetcist as a tool boox, of which, blasting is one of those tools. Kineticists don't just blast all day long, it puts too much strain on their body. They have other things they can do, like tripping enemies, raising barriers, flooding ships, altering the terrain, most of which they can do without expending resources.

A Kineticist who spends all of her focus on blasting, is denying herself access to a very powerful aspect of her class. Her utility.

I, personally, think of the Kineticist as guerrilla characters. They excel at hit and run tactics and ambushes. A Kineticist as a scout is a great addition to the party, because they can hit hard, and every version of the kineticist has some sort of 'movement' ability to help them get away. Aerokinetics can fly, Telekineticis and Pyrokinetics can basically fly, Geokineticis are terrifying on the ground as they can melt into the ground and move around, and Hydrokinetics can surf on frozen waves of water that they create as they move (just like Iceman or Frozon from the Incredibles; though this is also the worst of the movement options). At higher levels, they can even transform into their element and teleport to the locations of their blast.

A pyrokinetic can, for example, use Mobile Blast to create a source of flame in the middle of a group, and then use Smoke Storm to turn it into a cloud of choking smoke, with which he debilitates his foes. Because he can see through the smoke (Firesight), he can then blast his enemies with impunity from outside the smoke while they are unable to target him. With Greater Flame Jet, he can also circle the smoke cloud after every blast so they never know where he's coming from, or he can Jet away to ambush them again at a later time.

This is great for an NPC villain, true, but it's also a great thing that a party scout can do. How many "scout" classes do you know that can single handedly take on groups of enemies while remaining almost completely safe from danger?

There is far more than blasting for the Kineticist can do. It's just one of their options, and not necessarily the "best" option for them either.

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Deadbeat Doom wrote:
Tels wrote:
A whip kineticist that takes Whirlwind and uses the talent to increase their size could be stupid fun in the right situation. Whirlwind Kinetic Whip every enemy within your 20 ft reach? Yes please!
I'm assuming you are thinking of the base large version, right? Because the Huge version would be 30'; which is of course, awesome. :)

Well, that's at 16th level. Most Kineticists will spend that vast majority of their play time as a large creature, rather than a huge creature.

Personally, I'm looking forward to using a Geokinetic "Earthen King" that Earth Glides around, popping up out of caves, Whirlwind Attacking, and thing sinking back into the Earth. Possibly even Spring Attack + Kinetic Whip + Earth Glide.

God, a a Geokinetic melee user is going to be an absolute terror to face. I've got chills going up my spine as to how I'm going to use this guy. :3

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captain yesterday wrote:
Somebody brought their soapbox with them today:-D

I bet it's taking a huge effort for Strategytiger to stand on the box, instead of sitting in the box.

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I feel duty bound to mention that the Miyazaki film, Princess Mononoke, requires a viewing before running this game.

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DrDeth wrote:

Crikeys Mark, did you guys just name a class "Medium"? ;-) Did you learn nothing from "level"?

Can I play a Large Medium? How about a Small Medium? Most will be Medium Mediums. If I play it pretty good, does it become a "Medium Well"? Or if I am cheerful, am I a "Happy Medium"? Snort.

It also depends on the type of medium you're using

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I blame Cosmo for egotistical people existing.

I also blame Cosmo that I can't just push these people into incinerators because I could get in trouble if I get caught.

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Alexander Augunas wrote:

Wes: Who signed the natural 1?

Me: Sutter. He was the first person to sign the die, so I guess he thought 1 was fitting.
Wes: Yeah, we sort of just let him play with his books all day. I'm not convinced he even knows how to play the game.

Aaaaannd... now I have a mental picture of Sutter sitting down, surrounded by books, flipping through them with coloring crayons, and looking up at Wes with sparkling eyes and a grin on his face, saying, "Wes! Wes! I drawed on scary monsters!"

1 person marked this as a favorite.
ulgulanoth wrote:
I blame Cosmo for then new DnD movie being made

I wonder if this is an intentional attack by Cosmo in order to make Pathfinder look better and, by association, increase the money in his pocket through Paizo's boosted sales?

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Hargert wrote:
It seems that the devs are very worried with power creep and seem to always err on the side of caution. On top of that we are seeing the same reaction that many have to unlimited spell powers so every effort is made to keep them reigned in. This leads to an under performing class that is useful for making certain theme builds only. The same happened with words of power and despite being a cool idea no one uses it now.

Kineticist was the most popular class in the playtest by far, it had nearly double the amount of posts and comments than all of the other playtests combined. Logically, this would imply that it's probably the most popular class on release as well.

I don't think there will be a lack of Kineticists anytime soon. The class can be used to emulate so many characters from popular media, from Avater-esque bender, to Jedi, to Elsa of Frozen, to characters from the Fairy Tail anime.

The probably could have released a 64 page book for just the Kineticist and sold out. People have wanted this style of class for a long, long long, time.

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You really need to stop b#+#$ing about not being able to heal Burn. It's tiresome and you come off as a petulant child.

The Kineticist cannot recover Burn for very good reasons: Because his is the only "magical" class that never runs out of his abilities.

With any other class, all of their abilities are limited use, and once they run out, they're done; they won't really be able to contribute anymore. If an Inquisitor blows all of his Bane, Judgement and Spells on easy fights, he's done for the day. If a Magus blows all of his Arcana, and Spells, he's in the same boat as the Inquisitor.

Likewise, if these classes don't use their abilities, they're in the same exact situation. A Bard that doesn't use Bardic Performance and Spells is little more than an Expert NPC class.

The Kineticist is different. No other class has methods of reducing the cost of it's abilities. A Magus cannot reduce the cost of all of his arcana to 0, allowing him to activate it for free. An Summoner cannot gather energy so his spells don't use up spell slots. A Cleric has no class feature to reduce the cost of his chanels so he can channel for free.

Some of these classes have methods to recover, or increase the total number of uses per day of their ability, but in the end, they run out.

The Kineticist doesn't have this problem. The Kineticist can, literally, ramp up the power of his blasts and continue blasting at nearly full power, every single round, for the entire day, and never take a point of Burn. This means, that he never runs out of his resource.

As a trade off, that means the Kineticist must feel the effects of his resource for the entire day. It's a balancing factor and makes perfect sense.

God, with as much whining as you're doing now, I can't imagine how much you would complain if you were playing even 10 years ago, let alone 20.

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My Thoughts on the Playtest I've been very critical of this playtest because there are aspects of it that I utterly despise and that I think are harmful for the future of the game. Namely, the split identity aspect of the Vigilante.

Previous to this class, playing a vigilante with a secret identity was always a role-playing part of the game. It required the player to be quick on his feet, have a sharp wit, and extensive use of his Bluff skill if he didn't want to be discovered. Now, you've given mechanics to a role-playing aspect of the game (beyond the skill system in the game) which opens up a precedent of the game that I am not a fan of.

I mean, who's to say this doesn't lead to the inclusion of a "Mercenary" class that can only use it's class abilities in defense of his own life, or when he's being paid to something. Perhaps he doesn't gain experience if he doesn't get paid for a job, such as if the client can't afford to pay him after it's been completed.

Totally an exaggeration, but that's what it feels like is going on here. You are actively detracting from the game, and hurting the future of it, by going through with the development of this class.

Paizo, you should be ashamed of yourself for even considering this class.

However, that's not to say that there aren't aspects of the class I do like. I really enjoyed the fact that Pazio is branching out and attempting a far more modular game design philosophy. I feel that the current 'class bloat' could have been curbed a lot if they had adopted this farther back. The move to a 'talent based progression' was a good one way back in the CRB with the Rogue and Barbarian and the classes that followed, but it could have been taken one step further.

You could have developed a 9th level Arcane, 9th level Divine, full BAB, 3/4 BAB caster, 3/4 BAB non-caster template and then built modular class abilities to simulate the classes you've built since then. You could have drastically cut down on the amount of classes in the game if, for example, the Bard, Magus, Investigator, and Summoner were all rolled together into a single chassis with various talents and modular abilities to flesh them out.

Granted, this is a 'too-little-too-late' sort of scenario, but it's something worth thinking about going forward.

I don't, however, think that the modular classes was down well with the Vigilante. A modular system requires that all of the classes built off a chassis be, for the most part, related to one another. Barbarian, Paladin, Fighter, Ranger, Slayer etc, could, for the most part, be reduced down to talents that could be swapped around on one chassis to another. However, mixing magic into the chassis would not work as the classes function far too differently to work.

The Vigilante simply doesn't work as a 4-way split class. It's too starved for talents, or the talents don't go far enough. Only the Stalker is 'good' option to choose from, thought he Avenger isn't a bad one, it's just not 'good enough' compared to classes with a similar role. Especially Rangers and Slayers.

The Warlock and Zealot are simply terrible. The talent based casting system is bad, and you guys should feel bad for even thinking about it. The Warlock and Zealot are all going to be cookie-cutter builds because there is simply no good reason not to spend all of your talents on advancing your spell casting progression.

Outside of spell casting, both classes only have 1 or 2 talents that are really even worth looking at, but everything else about them is just bad. Even worse, the limited spellcasting they do have is not enough to carry them through an adventuring day.

Look at classes like the Bard, Magus or Inquisitor. They aren't just spell casters. They each have a mix of combat and non-combat abilities that aren't tied into their spellcasting. Each class can, quite honestly, go through whole adventuring days without ever casting a spell.

The Warlock and Zealot can't do that. Unlike any of the other 3/4 casting classes, if the Vigilante wants spellcasting he has to sacrifice all of his other class abilities in order to do so. If you were to adapt this same model over to the Bard, Magus or Inquisitor, then at every even level, the Bard should have to choose between Barid Performance, or Spellcasting, or the Magus between Magus Arcana or Spellcasting, or the Inquisitor between Judgements and Spellcasting.

3/4 casting classes only function if they have both the 6th level casting list, and combat abilities to supplement their spells.

A Bard, Magus, or Inquisitor that focuses only on spell casting his entire adventuring career, is going to find himself very underwhelming because he quickly runs out of spells and has nothing to fall back on. Likewise, if they focused on only their non-spellcasting class abilities, they will find themselves quickly running out of those as well, or not having enough 'oomph' to get the job done.

They need their spellcasting and they need their class abilities to fully function as a class. As it stands now, the Warlock and Zealot are classes I would expect to see in a 3E/3.5E era of game design, where you have empty levels of class advancement and only the even levels are anything to worth noting.

But, one should note, that despite how bad the Warlock and Zealot are, the Stalker and Avenger aren't free from criticism. As it stands, the Avenger and Stalker are both, functionally, playable classes. The issue, there is nothing about the classes that makes them unique, outside of the horrible dual-identity system. But even then, not really.

Playing an Avenger, is going to feel very similar to playing a Fighter, or Cavalier or Swashbuckler or even Slayer and Ranger. There's just nothing unique about this guy, although, I'm fairly certain the Avenger steps all over the Fighters toes (I think it's possible the Avenger actually gets more feats than the Fighter if they choose the right talents). The Stalker is much the same, except with Rogues, Ninja, Slayers, Rangers, Investigators, Vivisectionists etc.

The Avenger needs mechanics to make itself set apart from the other full-BAB classes. As it stands, it's pretty generic, ability wise. The Stalker is probably the most powerful of the 4 class choices, and the most functional; but there really isn't anything the Stalker has that sets it apart from the other 'stealth' classes.

I will note, that this class strongly reminds me of a manga called Change 123. In it, a girl named Gettou Motoko is trained by her 3 fathers in different styles of martial arts. However, the training was so hellish that she developed multiple personalities (Hibiki, Fumiko, and Mikiri) for each martial art that she, collectively refers to as HiFuMi (an archaic form of 1, 2, 3, in Japanese). Hibiki is a strong and aggressive brawler and master of karate; Fumiko is a clam and collected assassin using her weapons and incredible speed in fights; Mikiri is bubbly and childlike, with strong defenses using her grappling and submission techniques to defeat foes.

If you were to have, instead, developed a class around the idea of multiple personalities, each with different skill sets that the others can't use, I think this class would have worked better. It would have a viable reason for the mechanical aspects of the rules (as each personality would, functionally, be a different character).

I honestly don't know what you're going to do with this class. Confirmational bias, maybe, but is seems the majority response to this class is one of a negative bent; most people seem to think the Warlock and Zealot are too weak, the Avenger is barely functional and the Stalker is only somewhat decent. Outside of the 4 types, consensus seems to indicate the dual-identiy is clunky and the social talents only give the illusion of choice and, in many ways, defy logic or reason in how the function (all part of the problem of giving rules to role-play).

This class feels like it probably needs another 2 or 3 rounds of playtest, but I'm not sure if you have enough time to do so. The end of this playtest has the Vigilante in a very bad spot, with much of it needing entire re-writes. If you actually ship the Vigilante with talent based casting, I can almost guarantee you're going to get a huge outcry from the community because it's just bad and awful. The amount of changes needed to bring the Vigilante up to part mandates another playtest, but I don't think you're going to do that.

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BMovieMonster wrote:
From what I've been reading in the other threads, it seems like none of the elements are all that powerful if an NPC class with a bow can out-damage a focused blaster class.

Outside of Eldritch/Arcane/Inquisitor Archers, most of these archer characters are also one-trick ponies that can't do anything else other than deal damage. The Kineticist can do more than just deal damage, however. Hydrokineticists, for example, can get some really good battlefield control going by using abilities like Slick or Kinetic Cover to impede movement.

Many of the elements have impressive mobility options, flight, earth glide, pseuod-teleportation etc, means the Kineticist can make a good scout. With a focus on Con, she's a scout that isn't likely to die in a single blow either, and she can reasonably handle herself with her mobility, blasts, and defensive options.

I mean, look at the Hydrokineticist being able to have Water Manipulator by level 7. This lets the Hydrokineticist, create a 70x70 foot square and allows her to raise, or lower, a body of water by as much as 14 feet. Stop and think about what a 14 foot drop in a body of water would actually look like. You could easily trap whole ships in there and pin them down.

There's a lot more than simply blasting that a Kineticist can do, which is, more often than not, more than most archers can say.

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Kineticist does good damage and does good crowd control.

Kineticist does not do optimal damage or optimal crowd control.

Get your terminology right.

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The CR30 Green Tea Demigod wrote:
Another Ashiel Cultist wrote:
Cap'n Yesterday, Evil Overlord wrote:
Oh come on! I'm a way better dictator then her :-)

Nay! Our Queen shall strike down the false gods such as thyself!

Possibly with a Planar Binding.

I guess it's a good thing I'm not false. Says it right there in the handle. Demi, yes, but false? No.

The demi thing...I'm working on it. It's hard to find full deities slacking off so you can kill them and feast on their essence...their delicious, delicious essence.

Neveryoumind how I got to be a demigod. It's just a coincidence that there was a demigod of lemonade who happened to disappear when I ascended, or that I happen to have the demon subdomain and my clerics spontaneously cast inflict spells and channel negative energy.

Would that make you a... Demingod then?

Side note: you can change the name of an alias up until you make the 10th post for the alias.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cap'n Yesterday, Evil Overlord wrote:
Oh come on! I'm a way better dictator then her :-)

The Lord Ashiel is no dictator! Lord Ashiel is the savior on high of our role-playing souls. Lord Ashiel bestows wisdom and guidance upon the peons of this wretched world; aiding us and shepherding us into a brighter gaming future!

We follow Lord Ashiel, no because Lord Ashiel is the dictator of our bodies, but because Lord Ashiel is the Queen of our Hearts!

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I have decided that I will no longer accept Paizo's errata except on a case by case basis. There is so much swing-and-a-miss stuff with the errata these days, that I can't trust Paizo to do it correctly anymore.

It feels like I have to go through books with highlighters and markers to cross stuff out that is stupid or doesn't make sense these days.

That is all.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:


Our very first kineticist has come to the gallery!!!

Rina Lhorn, 7th-level merfolk hydrokineticist - A young merfolk scout with incredible powers sent inland to seek out potential threats to her home.

I am currently planning to create another pyrokineticist and a psychic next, so keep your eyes peeled!

G## d+!n... that is an amazing specimen! I would love to play her in a game. Also, that Water Manipulator... By my math it's 513 gallons of water you can shift around? That's a lot, if it's correct, and you can do it in an instant. You could do something like lift that out of a pool and douse it on a burning building or something to help put it out!

Been a long time since I did math... but I believe the volume of a portable hole is ~282 cubic feet, which roughly translates to approximately ~2,100 gallons of water. So a portable hole could carry enough water in it for 4 uses of Water Manipulator at 7th level. Granted, it's outside of your price range, but it might be something she could carry around at higher levels.

[spoiler=Maths]Control Water gives a volume size of 10xlevel by 10xlevel by 2xlevel or 70*70*14 = 68,600. Water Manipulator states you can shift 1/1000 of this, so 68,600*0.001 = 68.6 cubic feet of water. A cubic foot of water is 7.48052 gallons of water, so 68.6 = 513.1636

Volume of a cylinder is pi*radius^2*height and a portable hole has a 6 foot diameter (3 ft. radius) and is 10 ft. deep. So pi*3^2*10 = ~282.74 cubic feet. 282.74*7.48052 = 2,115.04208 gallons.[/spoiler

[Edit] Decided to favorite it a 3rd time! :D

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Ravingdork wrote:


Our very first kineticist has come to the gallery!!!

Rina Lhorn, 7th-level merfolk hydrokineticist - A young merfolk scout with incredible powers sent inland to seek out potential threats to her home.

I am currently planning to create another pyrokineticist and a psychic next, so keep your eyes peeled!

So I can favorite it twice!

1 person marked this as a favorite.
137ben wrote:
And I have now hit exactly 1000 favorite posts due to Ashiel's awesomeness!

Lord Ashiel is always the best choice for favorites!!

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GM_Beernorg wrote:
I blame Cosmo for global warming, I live in Western New York, and 90 degrees is not normal, thus now wife has the AC running non-stop, eating all our money. Cosmoooo!!

Alaska had over 100 degree weather for a week this summer... There are fundamental laws of nature being broken here Cosmo.

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Gorbacz wrote:
I'd like to state on the record that the way Mark interacts with the community is absolutely awesome. It goes for other Paizo staff too, but insofar I've had the idea that the lore arm of Paizo was much more on the ball in this department.

A non snarky post? Next thing you know, Cosmo is going to act, truly, benevolent.

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So, based off the Kineticist Preview blog post, I had an idea for a 'Dragon Slayer' archetype, ala Natsu of Fairy Tail. Would you care to hear my thoughts about how one might work? It's still very rough, as I am unlikely to get to see the full class for awhile (it takes a long time to get newly released material into my local hobby store), so much of it is only theory and possibility.

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