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Tels's page

RPG Superstar 2013 Star Voter. Pathfinder Society Member. 6,688 posts (6,723 including aliases). No reviews. 5 lists. No wishlists. 9 aliases.

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I blame Cosmo for wanting to go to Dairy Queen and get a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup w/Cookie Dough Blizzard.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
N. Jolly wrote:
Broken Zenith wrote:


N. Jolly, are you sure you want me to take down the Synthesist Guide? It might be below your standards, but it's still helpful for a lot of people. In any case, wouldn't it be more direct to simply stop sharing the guide and then let me know? People would still be able to access it if they have it bookmarked.

I'm really torn because on the one hand, the Synth guide is ugly as hell. On the other hand, people still use it (I didn't know, I never go on there, so I don't know its activity).

Personally, I think I'd rather have it included as a cautionary example in someone else's full Summoner guide than in and of itself.

Ah, leave it up for now, I'll do something about it later. I've promised myself I'm not doing anything with it unless I get some donations though, so it's going to stay in its half formed garbage incarnation as it is now because I said so.

Upcoming guides are as follows:

Hexcrafter Magus (Fairy Tail)
Kineticist (Avatar)

I might do something else, maybe a brawler guide (thinking either street fighters or No More Heroes, although the Barb Guide might be changing to NMH), but the hexcrafter guide is going to take me a while, and I'm making no promises on anything else.

Can we get double the amount of anime in these two guides? :P

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snickersimba wrote:
Tels wrote:
snickersimba wrote:
Also, someone who isn't N.jolly needs to write up guides like his, but aren't full of Japanese vomit. Anime *shudders*

Try not being an ass here. If you don't like it, you don't like it, no need to be calling anime 'Japanese Vomit' especially since there is a substantial percentage of the world wide population who very much so enjoy anime.

Also, anime tends to have many, many fantasy themes and it makes it very easy to find character art depicting what you want if you browse through anime collections.

Still, Its got no purpose to exist in a pathfinder guide, at all. Its a pathfinder guide, anime has no place in it. Thats like... indescribably wrong. The fact stands, it doesn't matter WHAT kind of anime it is, its still anime and it still will annoy the crap out of me because of the idea that it spawned nekos.

Merely your opinion. The guide was not made by you, it was made by someone else, someone who gets to decide what art he uses in his guide. If you don't like it, don't read it.

Pathfinder and Anime can easily go hand in hand and neither should be forbidden to the other. Not sure why you seem to think that anime is 'indescribably wrong' or something. Regardless, it's your opinion, and you don't need to be bashing on something that hundreds of thousands of people enjoy, simply because you dislike it.

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Me too. One of them has my birthday!

If you steal the month of your birth, do you get any older?

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I remember some favorite video games from the late 90's, like Dune 2, Dust: A Tale of the Wired West, or, most fondly, Infantry, a top-down combat MMO released in '97. Oh god I loved Infantry, I played that game right up until Sony shut the servers down. I would give anything for that game to have the population it did in the early 2000s.

There has never been, nor likely will there ever be, a video game that has brought as much fun as that one.

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Alex G St-Amand wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
Chyrone wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
Talking about 1990's kids is just mean

What context, talking about kids from the 1990's or "kids" talking about the 1990's?

I was only 6 in 1990.

Both! People like me and Haladir (and I think Gorbacz) like to play the "cranky old man" card whenever possible. One of these days I need to plant onions so I can yell at the kids in my front yard to get out of 'em.

...or at least put up an "onions" sign...

...but I'm totally off topic, and Sarah Marie will beat me, so off I run...

I was born in 1980, it always amuse me when the "1990's +" kids don't believe in the existence of a pre-Internet era.

I was born in '89, even though the internet existed as a child, it was in it's infancy and most of my childhood was without internet. Maybe I'm one of those rare exceptions of someone who grew up in the 90's/Millenium and can still recall what it's like without internet?


...Oregon Trail anyone?

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Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

Why are people so quick to assume the worst about various Golarion characters, like how Iomedae now seems to be considered Evil after the events of Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth, or followers of Ragathiel are serial killers (though I think I might have had a hand in that one, I asked Wes how to best accommodate Ragathiel's obedience requiring one to kill an evildoer every day, to which Patrick Renie gave a VERY satisfactory answer that SHOULD have nipped that misconception in the bud)?

It just seems like people rag on the setting's "good guys" as the worst evildoers of all.

"But the one thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail, fall, die trying. In spite of everything you've done for them, eventually they will hate you."

— Green Goblin

"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

— Harvey Dent

"#43: The more beautiful and pure a thing is, the more satisfying it is to corrupt it."

— Rules of the Internet

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Chris Lambertz wrote:
Tels wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
Tels wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
Sara Marie wrote:
katina: what I learned in an episode of Pokemon last night is that sometimes it's best to not evolve right away

The saddest part of that quote is... I know *EXACTLY* which episode she just saw...

Is that the episode in which Pikachu defeats Raichu because Raichu never learned attacks like Speed or Tackle?
Oh, Tels, Tels. I am *SOOOOO* disappointed! :-P
Never really watched Pokemon as a kid, but here I was thinking I knew which episode was being referenced :(
No, you're correct. Katina was in fact referencing this episode.

Woot! 90's/Millenium child FTW!

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I could use Simulacrum to make Solars, horribly fail my disguise check, and still have simulacrums of solars. Hell, I could even then, use Shape Simulacrum to change how my Simulacrum looks and make them look like pretty dollies and give them to people as gifts, only for them not to realize they've been given murder machines under my control.

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DM Beckett wrote:
Tels wrote:

Funny how a large percentage of the companies with inexact time-frames generally refuse to speak up much about what they're working on. Paizo editing, errata and FAQs is much like software, you don't provide a hard date until it's already done and ready to ship.

Mark has been amazing about keeping in contact with the forums about stuff, but up until Mark came along, Paizo's policy has seemingly always been total silence.

As far as I'm aware, we've never received word that errata was in the works, or which items were being worked on. Paizo has also stated on multiple occasions they won't even hint at a timeline for future errata so people don't hold off on buying the old books.

You must be in contact with very different companies than I, as general updates and announcements are very common in most others, and the companies size isn't really a factor. In fact, most will generally post or email things like "look at March, the first quarter of 2016, or late 2015 for _______".

As for the rest,

Erik Mona wrote:

We'll have an ACG errata sooner rather than later. The book has almost sold through its first print run, so we won't even need to do it "early."

However, in the meantime I am having the entire book re-proofed to catch as many errors as we can. I know there is an unacceptably high number of errors that involve rules elements, but the book has more typos and other sloppiness in simple running text than I'm comfortable with, and I want to make sure we fix before we reprint. Some of that stuff will reveal more errata material, I suspect. So, soon.

Okay, now you're getting into nuances. Most companies will not issue a statement as to when a specific thing is being patched or fixed or updated unless the patch/fix/update is already done and awaiting to be shipped i.e. patch notes.

A company will announce something like "Look for updates to the game coming on Tuesday" but won't tell you what is coming until they already have all the fixes ready and waiting to go.

That's standard policy with every computer company I can recall coming across. You get vague 'update coming' and that's it until they have specifics of what's being updated. Those specifics only include things that are already done being updated. They never tell you that about something that is still being worked on in case it runs into delays and setbacks.

Can you stop and think of any time that Apple, or iPhone (aware it's the same company, but different branch), or Microsoft, or any game developer or virus protection or software company has ever announced they are planning on fixing something unless the fix is already done? As in, say you discover a bug in an iPhone that allows you to read messages on nearby iPhones; Applie won't announce they are working on fixing the bug, they will simply fix it and release an update without telling anyone.

If you ask any company why they don't issue timelines, they will always say the same thing, "If we give a date on when something is supposed to come out, and then fail to deliver due to delays, customers become unhappy."

For Paizo, ACG is the first time I've ever seen them outright state errata was coming because it's been the book with the largest amount of grammatical and mechanical errors they've ever released. When you, as a company, release products every year that consistently set the standard by which all other table top gaming products are measured, then your big rule book release for the year falls well below that standard, it's a little on the embarrassing side.

I believe that's the only reason Erik Mona spoke up about it, including the fact that he has the editing and design team combing over the entire book to fix as much of it as they can. I suspect that the ACG errata will be the largest they've ever released in a single update.

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Ashiel wrote:
Of course using efreeti for free wishes is pretty much par for the course. There's a sorceress in a Paizo published module (I forget the name off the top of my head but I can go find it if requested) wherein the NPC sorceress antagonist has a bound efreeti that grants her and her dragon buddy's wishes. If you reverse engineer her stats, you find that this djinn has provided her with a +3 inherent modifier to each stat, implying that she's using the efreeti for exactly the same sorts of things that PCs do (though PCs might go the extra mile and get a pair of efreeti to go ahead and top it off to +5).

That would be the Seven Swords of Sin module and the sorceress is Tirana the Enchantress. Specifically, she bound the efreet so her pet dragon could have a plaything to cast spells for him. I mean, really, an efreet was reduced to a wish-generating plaything for a dragon. Considering how elitist and racist Efreet are, I suspect granting PCs wishes and then going free is a lot less humiliating than what Tirana did.

Also, on another note, background lore for Legacy of Fire indicates the BBEG was using a mortal to trade wishes. In that, he would grant the mortal wishes, in exchange, the mortal would also make wishes that would benefit the BBEG or his allies.

Planar Binding Efreet for free wishes? A-Okay in Paizo's book!

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CWheezy wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:

I suspect the reason why devs largely haven't really fixed or commented much on these types of issues, is because they are mostly theoretical. A lot of groups don't get high enough for some of these exploits, and most groups that do don't really try to tactics like this. Those that do probably get shut down by the GM/other players.

So while things like this may definitely need revamping or clarification, they are pretty low on the list of priorities for developers.

Hmmm, If I was developer, and part of my game for the last 15 years was literally broken such that no one could use it ever, I would actually place priority on that!

Also, guidelines on memories and what a simulacrum knows would be nice, as currently, if yo know the big bad of an ap, you can make a simulacrum of him at level 13, then learn all his plans and the locations of all his minions?

Big Bad only has half the skill ranks, therefore, half the knowledge. He may know he lives in the Fortress of Del'zoun, but not know that it's located in a demi-plane.

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Abundant welcome wallet destroying returning mithral shurikens of poverty dipped in bank account crippling poison.

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Aang and Katara

Korra and Asami


Conspiracy theorists, go rampant.

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So, with the idea that of using this as an NPC this is what I came up with.

Human Bomber Rogue (Scout, Underground Chemist)

Point Buy:
15-pt buy: Str 10, Dex 15 (17), Con 13, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 8

1) Weapon Finesse, (Dodge)
3) Extra Rogue Talent (Bomber Discovery: Acid Bomb, Explosive Bomb, Frost Bomb, Smoke Bomb, Shock Bomb or Tanglefoot Bomb)
5) Mobility
7) Spring Attack
9) Improved Initiative
11) Iron Will
13) Great Fortitude

Rogue Talents:
2) Bomber
4) [Precise Splash Weapons]
6) Offensive Defense
8) Swift Poison
10) Lasting Poison
12) Crippling Strike
14) Harrow Strike

Custom Gear: Modified the Fogcutter Lenses to be a 1/day item lasting 50 minutes worth 1,600 gp.

The idea is for the Rogue to be a terrifying opponent for the party to face and come in various strengths. The rogues will exist at level 4, level 8 and level 12, though I mapped them out to 14 in case I feel like bumping up a couple.

At 4th level, they get sneak attack on their splash weapons, and, for a tough challenge, one can run 4 of them together, each with a different bomber discovery. Especially one with a Smoke Bomb. With a Smoke Bomb and the above modified Fogcutter Lenses, they can run around in the smoke, dealing sneak attack damage with near impunity.

By 8th level, they have Swift Poison and Skirmish, from the Scout archetype. This lets them apply poison as a move action, and any time they move 10 ft. or more, they can make a sneak attack. Plus they'll have Spring Attack. So, move 10 ft. toss bomb, or move 10 ft, Sneak Attack with poison. At 12th level, their Sneak Attack bombs now deal strength damage as well, and they can get 2 uses out of each dose of poison.

Keep in mind, each time you are afflicted with the same poison, the DC increases by 2. So if you have 4 of these Rogues stab the same guy with a poisoned blade, the DC for the last save comes with a +6 increase.

If a 14th level version of this Rogue exists, Harrow Strike just adds more nastiness to their Bombs, dealing ability damage based off the suit of the card drawn equal to the number of sneak attack dice.

Plus, I really enjoy the mental imagery I've built in my mind. That of a group of plague doctor looking alchemists (except, no bird mask, goggles instead). Each one has a bladed dagger hidden in their sleeve modified with a syringe (purely flavor and for inflicting poison), and some poison canisters they can load into the syringe (preferably in a revolver style on their wrist). The 8th level Rogue, especially, seems fun, because he can move away from an enemy, making Acrobatic Checks to avoid an AoO, flavored as back-hand flips; and with the final flip, the Rogue draws a vial (bomb) and tosses it, causing an explosion, and due to the Skirmish ability, dealing Sneak Attack damage.

To me, this just comes off as a very scary, and hopefully, memorable group of NPC villains to use against the party. Ideally, when they see these guys on the battlefield, one should expect to see dread appear on their faces.

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I blame Cosmo for Waffle Irons making m life lazier.

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Ed Reppert wrote:
Tels, quit holding back. Tell us how you really feel. :-)

Yeah, I'm sorry for channeling my frustration and anger into that post. I have an ongoing conversation with my Grandmother on Facebook who told my sister she's going to burn in hell because she's a lesbian. Suffice to say my response to my Grandmother has ensured I am most definitely Not on her nice list... probably forever.

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Barachiel Shina wrote:
Tels wrote:
Barachiel Shina wrote:
For the record, either me and my players have been using them wrong (and my players are real good at making powergame type characters) or people need to give me real examples but in our games the Barbarian seems fine, the Monk seems overpowered, the Rogue seems fine if played right (if people would play the Rogue as a ROGUE and not a FIGHTER/NINJA/SUPER SAIYAN then I am sure we can leave that be) and, while we have not used Summoner yet, we have yet to see how their spell list is such a problem (we know the Eidolon can be). Their spells are mostly buff spells, that's it. They have almost no damaging spells, if you kill their eidolon, they are dead or have to flee. They can use their Summon Monster ability, but the monsters summoned have poor level scaling and can easily be destroyed by quit a number of spells (Protection from Law/Good/Evil/Chaos, Dispel Magic, and I have seen a few spells that free the summon from control or take control of a summon).

So... what you're telling me is that all of the people who play this game have been playing the rogue wrong, and your group has discovered the One True Path for playing a rogue?

Please, teach us your masterful rogue ways, oh supreme master!

Here's an example.

Party is fighting a huge gang of bandits led by a werebaboon barbarian. While the Knight/Cleric, Magus, and Conjurer all are busy fighting enemies on the first floor of the building, the 2nd floor has the majority of the bandits talking on plans to take out the PCs.

The Rogue of the party, a Changeling, shifted into the form of one of the bandits they took out and went upstairs after grabbing some of his equipment. With a series of SKILL checks (Disguise, Bluff, etc.) he led half the bandits out into the nearby jungle where he knew (thanks, again, to skill checks) of wandering carnivores and the bandits were attacked by a pack of deinonychus. He returned back, managed to infiltrate again and got up to the leader before sneak attacking...

So... the PCs kill a common grunt in some gang orginzation, Rogue uses it's Rogue class features to shapeshift into another human, because, you know, all Rogues in the game can do that. Then he uses disguise to persuade a bunch of enemies, again, in the guise of some low-level mook who doesn't even have a name beyond 'Bandit #4', to follow him out into the wilderness that all of the other bandits are acquainted with, right into the path of some g~@ d%~ned deinonychus that just so happened to be in the path. Then, using his elite disguise granted by his Rogue powers (and totally not from a racial ability), he manages to sneak up onto a werebaboon barbarian, and gravely injure the barbarian, with, I'm assuming, Sneak Attack. I mean, it's not like the werebaboon BARBARIAN happens to have Uncanny Dodge can is never caught flat-footed or anything, because that would suck if it were true.

I mean, wow. It's sure is a good thing that all of the bandits were absolute morons and decided to follow the orders of some random ass mook in some bandit gang and then decided, "Hey, lets go traipsing around in a jungle where there are some g@~ d@$ned dinosaurs running around! Sounds like a plan! I'll bring the pic-a-nic basket!"

Sounds a lot less, "One True Path to Rogue" and more "GM lets you get away with stupid crap". I mean, hell, if my GM favored my wizard that much, I'd have an infinite loop of crafting and selling magic items right now and would have attained ultimate power by this point.

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Blayde MacRonan wrote:

Not freaking... At least I'm not. Personally, the two being a couple isn't something to freak out over. She could've made a conscious decision to be alone and it would have been fine with me. In all honesty, I would have expected it.

No, it's just that the relationship 'seemed' to come out of nowhere. There obviously were hints that we weren't paying attention due to the focus on the 'big picture' as far as plot goes, enough that others picked up on it, but as someone who prides himself as being able to pick up small details like that, the fact that I didn't just doesn't sit well with me. And I'm obviously not alone.

Oh, absolutely, it was very subtle. I only even thought it might happen because I read lots of fanfiction, so whenever I see a remotely intimate scene in a show, my first thought is, "Bet someone who ships that is really happy." It just so happened, that those moments happened more and more often.

I will say, I think the writers pushed it as far as they could. Korra airs in some remarkably homophobic countries (like Russia for example), so I'm glad they were even able to give that much.

I really consider it an earth-bending success (in lieu of ground breaking), and I can't wait until my future sister-in-law gets a chance to watch it.

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James Jacobs wrote:
Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
James, are all the deity's that gained their power from the Starstone human before ascension? If so, is that a limitation of the Starstone? I was wondering if something about being activated via the God of Humanity has a part to play.
Iomedae and Cayden were. Norgorber might have been, but he keeps secrets. It's not a limitation of the starstone at all. Anything could use it to become a god if they do the right things.

Giant White Whale God confirmed! :P

What's your opinion on random number generators in video games?

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I don't mind fanservice in anime at all, but what does kill me, is when girls have, like, quintuple triple G breasts in them. For example, Highschool of the Dead, I think, would be a lot better show if all of the girls weren't so incredibly stacked.

Ranma was one manga/show I could never get into, because of the grandfather (I dislike it when characters get away with sexual harrassment 'because reasons', such as stealing women's clothing without punishment), and because of the, sometimes, completely illogical placement of blame or plot.

For example, an event I could see happening in an anime, would be a boy gets picked up by a tornado, carried half way across the country, and then thrown through a window right into his love interests bathroom while she is bathing, and, somehow, this is all his fault even if she is fully aware that a tornado picked him up and threw him. So she slaps him (or beats him up), blames him for it, gets really pissy, and now he has to apologize for being a pervert. That and he clearly planned for the tornado to throw him into her bathroom.

Then, to build up on the above, it's entirely likely said girl would be so angry with the boy, that she would start dating his most hated enemy, and now we have to suffer through multiple chapters/episodes of him being heartbroken and trying to win the girl back, or at least away from the enemy, because of something happening that he had no choice or control over. Oh, and the girl is likely to be abused, physically and/or emotionally, and we see some introspection of her regretting her actions but now she's afraid to leave because the guy might really hurt her or the protagonist.

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FAQ the halls with questions answered,
Fa la la la la, la-la la la

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Totally just had a brilliantstupid idea. Cast awaken on a giant frog and teach it to become a telekineticist. Carry around lots of bags of leaves, and now, whenever it comes time for the frog to attack, you shout:

"Bulbasaur, use Razor Leaf!"

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*sigh* I really wanted Toph to just so effortlessly hand Kuvira her ass and then just walk away, because she's the g*!~%~n Blind-Bandit!

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Nylarthotep wrote:

I think it is fair to give smart opponents a chance to notice spells like silence. The vrock has like a +23 perception iirc. Seeing a man in full plate making no noise should give the vrock a clue that something is going on. Even seeing a light moving down the hall with no accompanying noise might be enough to function as a clue stick with which to beat your bad guys.

So, perhaps a perception check to notice the lack of noise, and then perhaps a spellcraft check to determine it is a silence spell. However, even success on such rolls may not indicate exactly where the edges of the spell are. The vrock has other reasons to screech - including alerting the rest of the Citadel - especially since the telepathy 100' is not going to be enough to alert most rooms.

Not only that, the Vrock might notice when he himself croshes the threshold if only because suddenly everything fell silent. A quick Perception check to notice the silence, and maybe an intelligence check to guess it's a magical silence would be appropriate.

I don't play my enemies omniscient, at least, I try my best not to do so. But if I find it reasonable for them to know something, I absolutely roll with it.

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Rysky wrote:
Tels wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Tels wrote:
I blame Cosmo for the toilet paper always being gone whenever I need to use the bathroom.
Hmmm, theory: Cosmo hires future you to go back in time and use the bathroom before present you and use up all the toilet paper doing so, ergo what you should do is simply hold it a little bit longer until quantum continuity places you alongside your future self's timeline, at which point the timeline will right itself and automatically remove the waste from your body, since future you, now you, had already gone.
If it weren't for the presence of Cosmo, I'd agree. Except, he would merge the two timelines so that we both have to go, and neither has toilet paper.
So Cosmo has created a Null-Tels somewhere with all the toilet paper but no need for biological functions. Interesting...

Cosmo is a most fiendish being, truly.

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Rysky wrote:
Tels wrote:
I blame Cosmo for the toilet paper always being gone whenever I need to use the bathroom.
Hmmm, theory: Cosmo hires future you to go back in time and use the bathroom before present you and use up all the toilet paper doing so, ergo what you should do is simply hold it a little bit longer until quantum continuity places you alongside your future self's timeline, at which point the timeline will right itself and automatically remove the waste from your body, since future you, now you, had already gone.

If it weren't for the presence of Cosmo, I'd agree. Except, he would merge the two timelines so that we both have to go, and neither has toilet paper.

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What is the worst that could happen?

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CoeusFreeze wrote:
What was wrong with the Summoner? Clerics and Wizards are substantially more powerful and cheap (pounce ain't worth $#!^ next to wish/miracle).

Summoner's disrupt games because their abilities allowed them to not need the majority of their party. In addition, they're Eidolon allowed them to cover a multitude of roles with relative ease on top of their summoning. Then, to add more insult, while the Summoner appears to be a 6th level caster, their spell list was "balanced" around the time frame of when other casters got spells.

For example, the Summoner got Teleport at around 10th level, because other casters got Teleport at that level, but to make this possible, Teleport had to become a 4th level spell, but doing this, makes Wands of Teleport possible.

The Eidolon rules are also deceptively complicated and allowed for a number of things to be possible that wouldn't otherwise. Like pounce being a PC option at incredibly low levels. This means a 'Hekatonkheires' or 'Hydra' styled Eidolon, that is, an Eidolon with lots of natural attacks, with pounce, was very preferable and filled the role of primary damage dealer quite well. Meanwhile, the Summoner could use his spells or summons to adequately perform other deeds to the point that the Summoner often overshadowed other characters in a party.

Sure, a Wizard, or Sorcerer or Cleric were more powerful, in the long run, but the Summoner is like a 'Nova' Caster. He achieves much of his power pretty early on and progresses from there, but never ultimately achieves the power of a full 9th level caster.

Besides, the argument that "XXX isn't as good as Wish/Miracle" is not a good one, as the majority of players never see Wish/Miracle come into play in their games. A comparison of casters over a ~14th level career is more apt, and you will find that Summoners have access to much of the same spells, at a similar rate, as most 9th level casters, while matching them Summon for Summon (and exceeding the Summoning capability of other casters).

Conjuration is an extremely powerful school of magic after all, and Summoners get all the best spells.

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I blame Cosmo for the toilet paper always being gone whenever I need to use the bathroom.

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You celebrate the day in which you became subject to Cosmo's power!?

Well... alright. Happy Cosmoday John :P

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John Kretzer wrote:
I Blame Cosmo for the 8+ feet of snow Buffalo got because now I just feel whiny about the couple of inches we are getting now.

I blame Cosmo for Alaskans up here getting 1 inch of snow total so far (where I live) and it's almost December.

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Dabbler is arguably the 'most involved' poster on fixing the Monk. Every 'Monk thread' I've ever seen has him posting in it.

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John Kretzer wrote:
I Blame Cosmo for me being happy when bad things happen to me so I have something to come here and blame him for.

I blame Cosmo for John succumbing to the Cosmo-chist (Cosmo-Masochist) training.

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HyperMissingno wrote:
Snorb wrote:
"Okay: Swift action, (points at one guy) Smite Evil! Move action, (points at another guy) Smite Evil! Standard action, (points at the third guy) Smite F!@@ing Evil!"
YOU get a smite evil! YOU get an smite evil! And YOU get a smite evil!


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Mark Seifter wrote:
No element is going to get a scaling flat miss chance as its basic defense, and if one did, it wouldn't be fire. I'm happy to listen to options, but just to channel away from that to keep it more productive.

What about a smallish miss chance? As in...

Searing Flesh: Your body radiates intense heat and deals damage to creatures using unnarmed or natural attacks and weapons that strike his body, and when the kineticist is in a grapple. The damage inflicted is as according to the chart below. At 7th level and every 3 levels thereafter, your damage increases by one step. You can increase your damage by 1 step by accepting one point of burn, this stacks up to 4 times. Damage form this ability applies before the incoming attack hits (but only on a successful attack roll against the kineticist), possibly allowing for the ability to destroy the weapon. Weapons destroyed in this manner deal no damage.

1d6 > 1d8 > 2d6 > 3d6 > 4d6 > 6d6 > 8d6 > 12d6

In addition, for every increase of Feel the Burn you are experiencing, you gain 5% miss chance (this miss chance stacks up to 30%) against melee attacks from the intense heat. Creatures that don't take damage from your Searing Flesh are not affected by this miss chance, neither are creatures that can see through flames or that possess the (fire) subtype.

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mplindustries wrote:

Actually, the only "bad" elemental form is Earth, unless you're making a Strength based melee build. Fire still gets Dex and some fire resistance. Fire does have a terrible defense, but if you have to spend Burn anyway, it certainly doesn't hurt to deal more damage. Air's is only ok for Burn purposes. Earth is great early on for Burn, but by mid levels is lousy. Aether and Water have awesome defenses to spend Burn on, though, so it's totally worth doing for them.

You're also forgetting that everyone, by level 7, has the opportunity to take a second element. Unless you want Aether/Aether (and, I mean, why?) you will have access to Kinetic Form.

And remember, we've also only seen a fraction of the total number of Wild Talents actually slated for the book. For all we know, additional great buffs might exist for other elements that follow the same conceptual format as Kinetic Form (i.e. Buff X all day, or Y Burn for Buff X+1 all day).

That said, I think it is widely agreed upon that Kinetic Form has to change. The buffs are awesome, but I haven't seen anyone actually happy about transforming into an elemental to get them.

I didn't say any of the Kinetic Forms were bad, but that there are probably lots of people who don't want to be forced to become an elemental in order to play a functional class.

Frankly, if I want to play someone like Natsu from Fairy Tail, I don't want to have to be forced into Kinetic Form to do it.

However, the major point of that post is that Artanthos is still focusing only on discussing elements of the class from an optimized approach.

Spending burn on your defense is great... If you're a hydro or geo kineticist.

Spending burn on Kinetic Form is great... If you're okay with being forced to take the form of an elemental for the entirety of your life from that point on.

Aether's defense is only good for the first 2 points of burn spent, after that, the trade off nose dives. However, taking the additional burn to offset the FtB bonus might be a decent trade off, especially if you're accuracy starved.

Air's defense is rather 'meh' and hardly worth the burn (unless up against a lot of archery), and fire's is straight up awful and should never, ever, be used.

There are optimal ways to get the most out of every point of burn, this is true. But the class should not be forced into an optimal path in order to function well. I should be able to play a pyrokineticist, organically, and not feel like I'm royally screwed in my burn options.

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Artanthos, every time I see you post about 'burn is a good benefit' it always revolves around being a hydrokineticist, or using elemental form, or both.

So basically, as long as you are playing a hydrokineticist, or a geokineticist, and you spend the entirety of your life forever shapeshifted into an elemental, then Fuel the Burn and the drawbaacks of Burn have a healty pay off.

But you know what? Not every one is going to play that way. It's this little point and fact that you seem incapable of grasping.

What about the Pyrokineticists? Or the Aerokineticists? Especially if they don't want to be forever forced to be an elemental? How about the Telekineticist who is incapable of being an elemental? Have you stopped to consider those?

Have you stopped to consider the trade off of Burn when you're not playing in the most optimal way possible!?!?!

If you play the class in the most optimal fashion possible, yes, burn is worth the trade. Deviate even a little from the most optimal method of play, and you start seeing seriously negative returns on your burn investment.

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I blame Cosmo for the UK having the exclusive rights to the Dominos Feed Me. I also blame Cosmo for my lingering anger towards UK gamers who were all incredibly original in their 'fat, stupid Americans' comments.

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You know, the Kineticist really brings to mind a story of an online Role Play someone shared with me once. The story, of Edgardo the Brawler.

Mark, if you have the time to read the link above, I suggest you do. There are some neat ideas in there, especially the whole 'no limit' thing.

Perhaps an archetype for the Kineticist that allows them to burn as much as they want in a round, with no limit, to really ramp up their damage. But, as a trade off, they're forced into a damage progression akin to the Kinetic Fist ability?

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Am I the only one who thinks the Kineticist's skills should be increased to a minimum of 6+int? I feel the Kineticist is best used as a sort of 'jack of all trades' kind of character. Not as much as the Bard, but more so the Inquisitor with a decent skill selection and solid combat support.

That, and when I go through the 3/4 BAB classes, I noticed something with skills:

Classes with 8 skill points per level - Rogue, Ninja
Classes with 6 skill points per level - Bard, Inquisitor, Hunter, Investigator, Shaman
Classes with 4 skill points per level - Alchemist, Druid, Monk, Oracle, Skald
Classes with 2 skill points per level - Cleric, Magus, Summoner, Warpriest

With the exception of Rogue, Ninja and Monk, all of the 3/4 BAB classes have 6th level casting or higher. When it comes to versatility and utility, 6th level casting is always going to trumph over the wild talents of the kineticist, but many of the 6th level casters have 6 skill points per level (or are intelligence focused so it doesn't matter).

I mean, the Investigator and Bard are tied for the best skill monkeys in the game, with Rogue and Ninja hot on their heels and the Inquisitor isn't too far behind. I'm not saying the Kineticist should be as good as these guy, but putting him at 6 skill points would make him better able to contribute to the group.

I mean, when I think of the skills the Kineticist is going to want to have, I picture myself desiring Acrobatics, a Craft skill (related to the element), Diplomacy/Intimidate, Fly, Heal, Knowledge (arcana), Knoweldge (engineering), Knowledge (planes), Perception, Stealth and Use Magic Device. Some of these are purely mechanical reasons, but some are, I think, thematically linked to the class and could be granted via the elemental type.

For example, Telekinetics, Pyrokinetics and Aerokinetics are all going to want Fly as a skill because they'll need it for maneuvering, where as I could easily see Geokinetics and Hydrokinetics wanting Craft with Geokinetics wanting Knowledge (engineering) etc.

You might go with a base class list of Acrobatics, Craft (all), Intimidate, Heal, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (planes, Profession (all) Stealth and Use Magic Device, with the elements expanding the list.

Aerokinetics: +1/2 level to Acrobatics checks, Fly and Sense Motive become class skills.
Geokinetic: +1/2 level to Craft checks dealing with earth, Climb and Knowledge (engineering) become class skills.
Hydrokinetic: +1/2 level to Heal checks, Diplomacy and Swim become class skills.
Pyrokinetic: +1/2 level to Intimidate, Fly and Survival* become class skils
Telekinetic:+1/2 level to Intimidate, Fly and Spellcraft* become class skills.

*These skills may or may not match the element as the element itself is a little hard to nail down, skill wise.

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Pre-face, I don't have the Kinnect on my Xbox One, but, consistently, when I walk into my room to play Xbox and sit down, I will reach for the controller, and before even touching it, my Xbox will turn on, as if it is reading my desires and anticipating my needs.

I blame Cosmo for everyone not having a Xbox like mine.

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I downloaded *a* version of it, not sure if it's the 'most current' version. I could throw it up on OneDrive for you guys if you want?

[Edit] Here's the version of the Complete Wizard's Guide that I downloaded. I hope this helps!

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mplindustries wrote:
Tels wrote:

Keep in mind with Aether, Aether has an optimal trade ratio of 2 burn on it's defense. When you activate Force Ward, you immediately gain your level in HP as a regenerating force field. If you accept 1 burn, you get half your level, but take your level in damage (net gain of half your level in HP from the initial Force Ward and the point of burn). If you take another point of burn towards the Force Ward, your Force Ward now has an HP total = to 2x your level, but you also have 2x your level in damage from Burn.

As an example, if you were 10th level, you've taken 20 hp in non-lethal damage from burn, but you gained a 20 hp shield with that regenerates over time, so it's an even trade at that point. Any further burn spent toward your Force Ward becomes less and less favorable though.

See, I feel like it's a steal at 2 Burn or less, but it's still favorable afterward.

If I trade my level in HP for 1/2 my level in regenerating HP, I only need to get hit twice across two encounters before it's worth it.


I normally have 100 HP at level 10 (just a hypothetical, not based on any math!). Each Burn I spend costs me 10 effective HP, but gives me 5 THP that regenerates.

If I get hit in the first encounter of the day, my THP regenerates, and then I get hit again in the second encounter, my investment paid off, since I have the same net HP for the day. If I get hit in a third encounter during the day after they regenerate, I've gained a net benefit.

So, basically, as long as you get hit in two different encounters, Force Ward is a good deal.

The issue being the rate at which it regenerates. If, at 10th level, you spend 2 burn so your shield has 20 THP, it takes 20 minutes to regenerate to full. By 10th level, most things should be hitting for more than 20 points of damage in a hit, so it's likely a hit will take the entire shield out in one blow.

Interesting thought though, what if I could spend burn to increase the regeneration rate? Spend 1 burn to increase to 1 point a round, and then spend another burn to increase it to 1 point per 5 levels a round? At 10th level, the Aether could spend 2 points for 20 HP, and another 2 to increase regen to 2 points a round, which maxes out FtB and gives him a pretty decent defense on top of it.

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mplindustries wrote:
Malwing wrote:
Better group members could have shored up those but not doing anything isn't fun.

I think this is a good observation, honestly. I have always felt drawn to Water, with Earth secondarily when it comes to the four elements/humors/whatever, so I really haven't looked much at Fire or Air, and, Aether kind of feels like a different class entirely at this point.

Air really has very little going for it. You get to fly early, which is awesome, but the only other utility effect you get is Windsight, which

But if I were Water and the bad guy had an unusually high AC and cold resist, I actually could still help. Kinetic Cover basically cancels one attack per round if used well. Water Manipulator and Move Earth have huge amounts of utility fun or combats. Even tremorsense (from either element) is more broadly useful than Windsense. It's also a terrible defense. It's better than Pyro, but, honestly, Pyro's defense is so bad, it might as well not have one. Personally, I think Water is the clear best defense, with Aether next (I trade some regular HP for half as many Regenerating HP? And the HP I trade away actually aren't gone, so I won't die if I drop below them, I'll just fall unconscious? HELL YES!).

I think Earth is not as good as people are treating it--you have to get hit your level number of times per day before the trade was good. And it can be bypassed! It's not even X/-! Though, it's still certainly better than Fire, and probably better than Air.

Air makes the best long range blaster, but it's the least versatile since it does everything else poorly.

Keep in mind with Aether, Aether has an optimal trade ratio of 2 burn on it's defense. When you activate Force Ward, you immediately gain your level in HP as a regenerating force field. If you accept 1 burn, you get half your level, but take your level in damage (net gain of half your level in HP from the initial Force Ward and the point of burn). If you take another point of burn towards the Force Ward, your Force Ward now has an HP total = to 2x your level, but you also have 2x your level in damage from Burn.

As an example, if you were 10th level, you've taken 20 hp in non-lethal damage from burn, but you gained a 20 hp shield with that regenerates over time, so it's an even trade at that point. Any further burn spent toward your Force Ward becomes less and less favorable though.

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Technically, Elemental Body never mandates having to change your size.

Elemental Body wrote:

This spell functions as elemental body I, except that it also allows you to assume the form of a Medium air elemental, Medium earth elemental, Medium fire elemental, or Medium water elemental. The abilities you gain depend upon the elemental.

Air elemental: As elemental body I except that you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +3 natural armor bonus.
Earth elemental: As elemental body I except that you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength and a +5 natural armor bonus.
Fire elemental: As elemental body I except that you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +3 natural armor bonus.
Water elemental: As elemental body I except that you gain a +4 size bonus to your Constitution and a +5 natural armor bonus.

It doesn't state I have to become a medium elemental, it just states what bonuses I get based off which elemental I become. Since it functions "as elemental body I" I can choose a small elemental and gain the stat bonus of elemental body II.

The abilities you gain depend upon the elemental. Note, it does not say the abilities you gain depend on the size of the elemental, only the choice of what energy type of elemental you become.

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Artanthos wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Artanthos wrote:
I don't have a problem with Burn. I get far more out of it than what it costs me.
Well... I do have a problem with Burn and it cost me more than it's worth.

You are free to not use Burn.

Those of use who enjoy the benefits offered feel the reward is worth the cost, and will have much stronger characters for taking advantage of the Burn mechanics as they currently exist.

Very egotistical of you to speak as if the way you play is the "One True Method" and everyone else who does it is wrong.

In your opinion you feel that Burn is worth the benefit. In my opinion, and many others based off the posts I've been reading in the playtest, it does not.

That's not to say my opinion is correct, nor is yours. This may be confirmation bias speaking here, but, from what I've seen, I would say most people do not feel the return rate of spending burn is worth the cost.

You also seem to be focusing on the cost of burn in the most optimal useage of the Burn ability.

Not every player is going to be a geokinetic, or a hydrokinetic, or use Kinetic Form. Not every person is going to want to be forced to play as an elemental in order to be fully functional as a character.

Geokinetics, Hydrokinetics and Kinetic Form have the most optimal return rate on accruing Burn, this is true. But what about everyone else? Aerokinetics and Pyrokinetics both Kinetic Form, but all of their other abilities are rather lackluster when it comes to taking burn damage. Aetherkinetics don't get Kinetic Form, but their Force Ward is pretty decent for the first 2 points of burn, but after that it's really not worth it.

Fact of the matter is, outside a handful of abilities, most of the return rates on burn is not worth the cost. However, this can be fairly easily tweaked in the finished product.


I like the Burn mechanic, but I think it needs tweaking to make it more worth the cost. If the majority of people don't want to use Burn because they feel it's not worth the cost, outside of a single optimal path, then it needs to be fixed.

The class is not designed only for those who can optimize it, it's designed for everyone to make use of it.

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One thing I've thought about in making these posts is that the Kineticsit itself should get some changes to it. Namely, that each element should have special boons that are granted only if the element is chosen as the first element, or, it grants a higher bonus.

For example, if you choose Earth, you might make the bonus from Feel the Burn apply to AC and CMD vs bull rush and trip maneuvers and add half their level to Knowledge (engineering) and craft checks dealing with stone. Or give Air a bonus equal to half their level on acrobatics and stealth checks, and Feel the Burn applies to their initiative score or possibly a 10 ft. increase in speed for every Feel the Burn bonus. All classes should probably get a bonus equal to their level or half their level on Knowledge checks pertaining to their element.

I would suggest, that you only get the additional bonuses for the first element you choose as that is their 'base' element. This way, you prevent people from trying to minmax the elements or something. It would also make the choice at level 1 even more relevant, and it adds a bit more utility to the class.

The kineticist is also desperately in need of a method of bypassing energy resistance. Even something as simple as reducing energy resistance equal to their level and dealing half damage to those immune to their element at level 10 or so would work. I personally would prefer to steal the Unnatural Cold and Unnearthly Cold abilities from the Winter Witch prestige class and slap them on the Kineticist, but that's just me.

The kineticist should be capable of manipulating their element in some form from level one. In Avatar, even untrained, Katara was still able to move water around, though, it was, admittedly, very sloppy and rough.

I also believe the the Kineticist should have an ability that interacts with elementals of their type. Be it banishing, dominating or siphoning power from them, elementals should fear a Kineticist.

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DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
(slightly terrible) movie Jumper

I'm a fan of this movie if only because it got me to read the book series, which I found far more enjoyable.

The Jumper series of books have some interesting abilities that may or may not fit the kineticist.

Some major and not so major spoilers for the Jumper series of books.

Jumper, Reflex, Impulse:
In the first, book, Davy learns he can teleport and learns that he can only teleport to places he can remember vividly. He solves this problem by acquiring 'jump sites' at various locations by recording a spot and describing the sights, sounds and smell of the location as best he can. Jumping also ignores physical laws, like, if you were to fall off a cliff for several seconds and then Jump, you would land at your jumpsite without any of the energy you picked up while falling. The Jumper can also conceivably 'jump' anything he can lift (an example is Davy manages to tilt a bookshelf and lift it off the ground, barely, and jumps it). The Jumper is less teleporting, and opening a doorway to another part of the world and passing through it. A recording of the Davy jumping, when slowed down, shows a perfect 'Davy-sized hole' in which you can see the location of where he's going.

In the second book, it's discovered that people who are 'passengers' of a jumper can learn how to do it too. The Jumper can also open the doorway to another place, and hold it open, to let ambient surroundings through the doorway. Davy uses this ability in the third book to melt snow off his driveway by holding the door open to some tropical location.

In the third book, the Jumper can learn to *not* negate the kinetic energy he neutralizes while Jumping, and, in fact, can force kinetic energy into himself to launch himself through the air. With practice and control, the Jumper can even fly using it. They can also use it to add to their punches and blows for some serious damage.

[Edit] Note, the movie Jumper is based as loosely on the book series as can be possible. As in, the characters share similar names, David's Dad is an alocoholic who abused him, and David can teleport. That's about it as far as what the book and movie have in common.

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