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ASharkInAPanzerNamedSharkPaizo has done a great job giving the kineticist a lot of support since its release. Two books introduced tons of new content. In the realm of 3pp, Purple Duck Games's Kineticists of Porphyra is pretty well done.Letariel wrote:Ok, forget the archer comparison, and instead go with the sorcerer comparison. A sorcerer going for evocation (let's say fireball or battering blast as the most common) will always do more damage, assuming it's not a total marathon game (which is pretty rare). And the sorcerer will also being flying/invisible/untouchable and have utility spells, so the utility comparison will be similar. Am I wrong?The sorcerer should still be doing more damage with single uses of spells because they don't have an at-will blast aside from cantrips. Nearly all of the kineticist's utility is either at-will or can be at-will.
Cyrad: In theory, I agree with you, but for realistically, I've never heard of a sorcerer that ran out of spells after lvl 2 (before which, as you stated, they just use their cantrips). Sure, there are some DMs that run marathon games where an kineticist would shine, but a typical game has characters resting when they are out of resources (spells, arcane points, judgements, hps, etc). In those typical circumstances, "single uses of spells" are pretty much infinite.
ASharkInAPanzerNamedShark: As for not wanting to compare to the sorcerer because there isn't as much content for the kineticist, isn't that the point of this thread? To make more content?
Okay, first of all, please stop exaggerating. You can't honestly say that you've never heard of a sorcerer, or any other caster, running out of spells past level 2; that's extremely dishonest, or you never speak to anyone about games.
The system cannot be balanced around the idealized 5-minute work day; this isn't reality. Lots of GMs don't let their parties rest unhindered. Lots of GMs cause disruptions in parties forcing them to keep going. Pathfinder, at it's base, is built upon the assumption of having multiple encounters in which parties expend resources during adventuring. Granted, not every day is going to have 5+ fights, but it should during any significant location of enemies, i.e. dungeons, castles, ships, etc.
If you honestly think that the Kineticist needs more damage, and be capable of matching evocation focused casters, or DPR Archers, then you should not be giving advice on the Kineticist. The kineticist does perfectly acceptable damage, and brings quite a bit to the table as long as you are aware that the kineticist is intentionally designed, from the ground up, on purpose not to be the heaviest hitter in the lineup! It is not intended to be dealing more damage than other classes focused on doing so, nor is it intended to bring more utility than other classes focused on doing so. It is intended to be a hybrid of the two.
Stop comparing kineticists to Archer Fighters, or Fireball Sorcerers, and start looking at them in comparison to Bards, or Inquisitors, or Magus. Sure, those classes can push beyond the kineticist in damage and utility, but they also blow through their resources doing it. The kineticist holds up just fine when you compare it to the classes it should be compared to.
It is not the king of AoE blasting. It is not the king of single target damage. It is not the king of utility. But it's pretty good at all three of them, and never has to worry about not having enough resources for the next fight. Other classes do, and they do it frequently. Full casters, partial casters, and martials, they all run out of resources, while a Kineticist can very often go whole adventures without needing to take more burn than what she uses to charge up her defense.