Tatterdemalion's page

U1-3 were also written by TSR UK, as well as the UK series.

They were still good :P

We of the UK are bloody excellent. I loved the Saltmarsh trilogy.

Agreed. Saltmarsh is one of D&D's best. And I suppose you Brits are OK, too. Now, if we can just get you to speak standard English... :P

Sigh. Nice thought, but it's actually the 28th anniversary of the Greyhawk FOLIO, which was the first Greyhawk campaign setting (maps and all!).

Yeah, but 25 is a cooler anniversary -- so I picked the boxed set to recognize :)

As time progresses, I see more and more that WotC has some good writers/designers and completely incompetent managers...

My feelings exactly!

Actually this isn't such a big thing. The real fault lies in the Graphic designer who made the mockup of the dice roller...

If this were the only misstep, I'd agree. But WotC has handled a lot of things very clumsily -- where do you draw the line between a mistake (or two, or five) and incompetence?

Come to think of it, WG12: Vale of the Mage was a cool supplement packed full of potential.

U1-3 were also written by TSR UK, as well as the UK series.

They were still good :P

The other thing this tells me is that WotC hasn't even developed their own dice-roller technology for the DDI, which is pretty sad.

Sad is right.

We found out many months ago about DDI -- given that Paizo found out about the revocation of the magazine license a year before that (or so), WotC has had DDI planned for a very long time. Unfortunately, for most of that time, they appear to have been doing little or no useful work on it, or even had software developers in place.

So absence of any dice-roller software wouldn't surprise me :/

I'm trying to make my wife read it...

Wow, you're lucky.

In my house, those three words just can't be put together in that order. Unless perhaps they're followed by a word like mad, annoyed, or somesuch :P

Callou Callay!

Oh, frabjous day!

The vorpal blade went snicker-snack -- hopefully on this OGL propaganda

I go for it, on account of I can get the players to go on a mission to save their girl. I don't get too graphic about it though. People know what happens.

Ditto.

BTW this year is the 25th anniversary of the World of Greyhawk Fantasy Game Setting -- not the first Greyhawk product, but the boxed set which introduced us to so much of the setting's detail.

FYI :)

We actually broke out the champagne last Friday when my awesome staff got all those amazing books off to the printer so they will be there in time for GenCon. Oh, and cake too. Champagne and cake. Yummy.

Lisa:

You do have the best staff in the business -- professional, incredibly talented, they love RPGs, and (for lack of a better phrase) they love their customers.

Not every company in the industry can lay claim to all those qualities.

We actually broke out the champagne last Friday when my awesome staff got all those amazing books off to the printer so they will be there in time for GenCon. Oh, and cake too. Champagne and cake. Yummy.

Lisa:

You do have the best staff in the business -- professional, incredibly talented, they love RPGs, and (for lack of a better phrase) they love their customers.

Not every company in the industry can lay claim to all those qualities.

Likely, they anticipate having some private liscenses with select companies, but we'll have to wait and see how that really pans out. If the game proves to be as successful as inital sales indicate, then we might see some companies making overtures towards obtaining more favorable liscense terms.

Licensing under different terms would surprise me.

I have the distinct impression that WotC (Hasbro?) sees no benefit whatsoever in sharing the profits from their IP. As you've suggested, this does not appear to be a credible effort at enabling third-party publishers to get on the 4e bandwagon.

And where will third-party publishers advertise their products? The print magazines are gone.

So did I. Gave a whole new meaning to "Tenser's Transformation" though =:0

Serves him right.

Me and my players always felt Tenser was a manipulative, narrow-minded, egotistical, morally-superior bully. To some degree, I continue to portray him that way when we play.

Of course, Mordenkainen is also a manipulative, egotistical, morally-superior bully (he only lacks the narrow-mindedness, and is perhaps less of a bully). But he's cool, so we let it slide :)

I thought (and said) early on that the 4e platform appears to be, in part, a deliberate attempt to limit and reduce competition. This despite past claims from WotC people that competition and third-party contributions are good for the industry and the company.

It strikes me that the net effect of the GSL is that most publishers will bow out, accomplishing such a goal.

Two more cents...

They dedicated the books to Gary after all.

I have to wonder what EGG would have thought of that.

We really enjoyed Return of the Eight.

I occasionally play computer games, but they get old rather quickly -- while they often require cleverness, there's little or no opportunity for creativity. Roleplaying game allow, and often require, creativity.

I'll take creative any day.

I don't like it.

Most use of these articles will be at a table, reading from paper copies. The format is great for your screen, but not useful when most will actually need it to be useful.

IMO :)

I'm looking at some of my favorite characters - one was a guy who simply had no clue what to do with his life. So, he dabbled. He tried being a rogue, a bard, a psychic warrior, and eventually a sorcerer.

I played in the Living Force Star Wars RPGA campaign. In one mod, a player came to the table with an 8th level character whose total BAB was +1 -- love that multiclassing!

He was a great player and character, too. Contrary to some opinions, combat optimization isn't a prerequisite for fun roleplaying.

At first glance I like the new multiclassing rules.

I always thought characters were too free in 3.5 to completely change what they were doing. I like the more limited 4e approach, though we haven't actually played it yet.

Tensor, could you knock off the 4evil stuff?

...

The term 4evil is in the Lexicon. I didn't make it up. So, not really.

I guess not :/

There's plenty of trolling going on. It'll get worse if we respond or argue -- such is the nature of trolls. It'll (slowly) go away if we ignore it.

I'm not saying responses and rebuttals are wrong, but we should exercise a little discretion. Many recent posts don't deserve responses.

Just a thought :)

... and the threadcrap postings continue to flow.

Yep. But they'll go away quicker if we ignore them :)

My group is blown away by WAR's art (who isn't?).

Does anyone know if there are larger pics of these? In particular, we're looking for the uncolored Valeros sketch and this alternate view of Seoni.

Thanks :)

Unfortunately, it doesn't help that I think the system stinks like a rancid fish tied to the bottom of my car's muffler...

Could you be a bit less ambiguous in expressing your feelings? :P

...which is why my arguments of why I want to stick with 3.5 and other arguments of why 4E is spectacular aren't going anywhere with people who have made up their mind.

I've noticed that, too.

There are plenty that aren't interested in being rational with their criticism, and there are plenty that aren't interested in rational criticism -- on both sides. They say they don't see the point, but I think it's more they won't see the point.

On a side note, I need to remember to never loan them money.

I'll likely have no problem there -- after the 4e rules, my money is increasingly unlikely to be going in that direction :)

I'd rather find products made by a company that does business with honesty, integrity, professionalism, and respect for long-time customers.

...but I get the sneaking suspicion Wizards is trying to save money wherever they can (See, for example, the crappy paint jobs on the most recent D&D Minis sets)

Maybe skipping GenCon could save a few bucks. And waiting a long time to hire software developers will save a bundle. And Webmasters that know how to remove funny white borders around pictures might cost more than they want to spend. And doing a competent job on the first 4e adventure would really be a waste of time and money...

Just some suggestions :)

In other words, I agree -- a pattern has been emerging. Pinching pennies on a project of this importance is passing strange.

If you count healing surges, then 3.5E characters are far more resilient than 4E characters...

Oh. Thanks :)

I haven't really figured out all the subtleties of the 4e system yet.

Agreed. Arrogant, pretentious idiots, too dumb to think their own thoughts, and thinking everyone else must join the collective.

IMHO it just looks like the shop owner has taken a class in WotC maketing. Piss off the customer and then expect them to buy stuff from you.

"We are the Borg -- err, WotC. Lower your 3.5 books and surrender your money. Your roleplaying will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile."

Well, actually 4E hit points are greater only at low levels, an they are smaller at higher levels.

Not if you count the effect of healing surges in any way.

Missed deadline? From WotC? How could it be?!?

:/

My usual response: "I'm waiting for 4.5"

Two years won't be that hard :P

Resists urge to counter-argue :D

Thanks :)

In hindsight, my post was probably a bit inappropriate. Bashing 4e isn't the point of the thread. Sorry.

Keep it. How else will you have source material for motivations and behavior of beholders? 4e isn't interested in providing any.

And that's just one example.

Hasn't the MM had 'tactics' sections since the good ole' days? How s this any different?

Yes, but previously they were more general -- and for me, more useful. In the good ole' days, tactics were secondary to motivation and personality. The 4e MM provides little to no support beyond combat statistics.

If you don't believe me, check out the beholder entry, an iconic monster with a long and rich history in the game. Now it has no more personality or motivation than the 17th orc in the line we're cutting down in room 13a (less, actually).

Beholders are important enough to merit a full-page illustration in the 4e MM, but motivation and character development aren't important enough in 4e that beholders get any.

It sounds to me like you're obsessing over the details...

The devil is always in the details.

But you're probably right. There's not a single thing I would say is wrong with 4e -- there are just some things that bug me, and some things that don't appeal to me (and a lot that does appeal to me).

Or WotC is run by a bunch of imbeciles -- take your pick. BTW, I don't think they're imbeciles.

Sometimes I do.

Hmmm... DDI, online magazines, KotS, GenCon, Forgotten Realms reboot, no campaign support for a long time. You might be onto something :/

Now possibly this was not made for new players ... but if you've got vets I have a hard time thinking that they made an adventure with very little plots because veteran players just want mindless combat.

Maybe it was made for video gamers. Maybe the accusations are true :/

Or WotC is run by a bunch of imbeciles -- take your pick. BTW, I don't think they're imbeciles.

WotC does amazing rules work, IMO, but their adventures can be hit or miss. Dragon and Dungeon both seem to be continuting their tradition of taking 3rd party submissions, not becoming a simple publishing arm of the devs personal stuff, so I expect them to remain pretty high quality.

I don't, necessarily.

WotC should have pulled out all the stops with the first 4e adventure, but they didn't bother. I think that's the simplest way to put it -- at times, they just don't bother.

If they keep up this spotty good today/crappy tomorrow pattern, I won't bother either. I'm trying to, but at some point my confidence is going to be gone.

I'd say it is about the same as the original 3E offerings. But, Paizo has upped the ante so much that KotS was a HUGE disappointment...

This is very disappointing. I'm desperately interested in trying 4e, so much that I want to put our current campaign on hold for a while. KotS was my first choice for the test.

This further weakens my faith in WotC. How are we to believe they can maintain online versions of Dragon and Dungeon with this kind of shoddy work? Or or provide new adventures. Or write new splatbooks.

I think they had an extraordinary asset in Paizo, and they threw it away. Now, they have a far-less-than-ordinary team with little experience with such things.

Then we can at least argue with each other intelligibly.

What makes you think people want to argue intelligibly? :P

Like others, I initially got the impression that "D&D4e puts too much emphasis on combat, and not enough on the Role-Playing". But several have pointed out, I think correctly, that "you make your own role-playing", and the rules system is largely irrelevant.

This is not entirely true IMO. While players will play as they want, the content and tone of the rules will influence how they play, some more than others. My problem with 4e is that influence is much greater and more focused than it was in previous editions.

Nevertheless, I have noticed a significant decline in plot-focused products coming out of Wizards of the Coast, and a great deal more emphasis on action and combat.

Which supports my theory that WotC has written 4e with a deliberate attempt to change or influence how people play the game.

<Pause while I put on my tin-foil hat>

I think action in a fantasy game is great, even very important. But it can't be the most important thing. A good plot and story is what many of us veteran gamers hunger for. If I want visual action, I can play video games, which I do.

I think WotC is trying, in part, to compete with computer games -- that only works if you're selling computer games.

BTW, good post, and I agree with most of what you say :)

Am I the only one starting to warm to the whole square idea? The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to really like it!

I think it's fine, and it makes it easier for some players. Good change.

I prefer 1-2-1.

So do I -- house ruling time!

I am seriously concerned, given WotC's track record, that the DDI will NEVER actually materialize, at least not in any useful form...

That would shock me.

IMO one of 3e's main benefits for Hasbro was maintaining interest in minis -- for which the profit margin is very high. I think DDI is a high-ROI (return on investment) gimmick around which the company is building its strategic goals for D&D.

Which doesn't really mean it'll happen. They need developers (which I think they finally hired -- recently) and competent project management. Does anyone think there have been management changes?

Anyways, I am pretty sore about the lack of content as well as the misinformation (or lack of info) by WotC.

It does little to instill trust or confidence :/

One thing I disagree with is the alleged "high cost" of D&Di. To me, $10 a month (as I had planned on subscribing) is a very fair value for access to two high quality magazines, several character building tools and databases, and an online dungeon tool...

There's no indication any of that will come out, save the word of WotC. Their game design team is excellent -- at best, their DDI team (or more likely management's decisions regarding DDI) has been incompetent.

Bad spelling and/or grammar embarrasses and annoys me :(

That's a understandable feelings.

:o

I just recognized another trait about 4e that bothers me.

A Lich (Human Wizard version) is a Level 14 Elite Controller. Controller. I know it's an aid, but should DMs be told how the monster is used, or should they be deciding themselves?

In so many little ways, I find 4e telling me how to play the game rather than simply enabling me to play the way I wish :/