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Tar-Tar's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 92 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character.


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Increased caster level will increase the max number of undead you control (at least for the animate dead spell).

This thread is discussing ways to increase caster level.

Rynjin wrote:
Payne Mykonos wrote:
Rynjin: this seems to be a thread on asking for a lite Pathfinder book. ...don't get it. :/

It was a joke (admittedly kinda a bad one).

A thread that old with the most recent post being from 3 years ago is considered "dead".

If you posted now you would be "resurrecting" it.

Hence, Payne Mykonos, Forum Necromancer!

Wow... just wow. That was a good laugh.

Payne Mykonos wrote:

I like Undead Lord, but the only thing it adds is a Skeleton companion.{/quote]

Not quite. The companion is a minor little bonus. The bigger stuff is the bonus healing to undead and the fact that the Undead Lord can heal itself with channeled negative energy. If you have the quick channel feat, you can heal undead and yourself (or damage living enemies while healing yourself) as a move action. If you allow 3rd party stuff, throw the maximize channel feat in there for a lot of nasty fun.

Also, as a cleric, the Undead Lord can throw unhallow and desecrate around to pump up his undead minions. Don't pay so much attention to the undead companion, it will distract you from the real bonuses :P.

Undead Lord is another necromancer type build you could use.

Skeleton Summoner has never looked all that useful to me, but it would match the necromancer villain.

There's probably some shenanigans he could do with the Leadership feat.

Also, if the undead have channel resistance, that adds to their will saves against the command undead feat:

SRD wrote:

Channel Resistance (Ex)

A creature with this special quality (usually an undead) is less easily affected by channeled negative or positive energy. The creature adds the listed bonus to saves made to resist the effects of channel energy, including effects that rely on the use of channel energy (such as the Command Undead feat).

I think the duration is permanent; otherwise, how would there ever be a new day for the intelligent undead to attempt a new saving throw?

It does not require concentration to maintain, so I don't think it ends when the cleric is unconscious.

Use spells like unhallow or desecrate to buff saving throws. Also, an enemy necromancer capable of using control undead could counter the cleric. Also, Shadows are a type of undead that only do strength damage. This means that other undead cannot be harmed by them, which might be useful if the cleric keeps using command undead.


Orange Prism

Moon Circlet

Those are the only two items I've seen, but there are probably more. You could also craft custom items for that effect if your GM allows it.

Oh, and there's a trait that does +2, but only for multi-class characters.

Magical Knack

Weirdo wrote:

I should clarify: I'm a player in this one. My crafting skills can't handle the gold rush so I'm considering finding an assistant (or someone to assist).

I didn't consider continuing work with the Amazing Tools after the first hour... that example was helpful. But I don't think C1 should be able to make 2.5K worth of progress in hour 1. The item clearly says if you work for 1 hour you get 2K progress.

No but your really close though.. What this is ment is to shorten the time in making things from the standard 1000 GP per 8 hours per caster and cut that time into half. So those two crafters could indeed make 2k in 4 hours. But thats all they could make that Day on the amulet.
You sure about that? I can see not stacking the speed-increasing options, but I thought the whole point of standard accelerated crafting was to cut down the number of days spent finishing an item. You finish 1K worth of crafting(normally 8 hours of work) in 4 hours, but I don't see anything saying that you can't go and craft for another 4 hours and another 1K progress - nothing that adjusts the normal "up to 8 hours of crafting in a non-adventuring day" rule.

I'm fairly certain you can craft 2000 gp per day (4000 with the assistant) by adding 5 to the DC, especially given the order it states these things:

SRD wrote:

This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by 5.

The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day.

Also, the reason it mentions that it is accelerated to 4 hours per 1000 is probably because:

SRD wrote:
If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks.

So by RAW I don't see anything stopping you from crafting at double speed for the full 8 hours.

Spontaneously casting cure spells is a class ability that oracles can have. If a lammasu doesn't have any of the class abilities, it would not have the ability to spontaneously cast cure spells, either. It must choose cure spells as spells known.

Because the lammasu doesn't get cure spells as bonus spells, it is selecting them as part of its spells known.

Ravingdork wrote:
Tar-Tar wrote:

Infinite summon monster 1 can give a level 2 souldrinker infinite money (summon a 2 HD monster, use the energy drain on it, repeat). The money can only be used for certain things, though.

Being able to cast lesser restoration at will would pretty much negate ability damage from the Blood Money spell, which lets you cast expensive stuff without any worries - including animate dead. You would have to multiclass for that, though.

There's a few immediate/swift action spells that would be spammed a lot (Grace and Gallant Inspiration are the first that come to mind). Prepared casters would get a lot of versatility for their lower level spells.

Borderline constant invisibility - which goes well with the summon monster spells and animate dead.

Fabricate Bullets at will would be a stupid way of getting infinite money.

I would compare with Spell Expertise. There are probably other ways these feats could be abused, but those are the first things I thought of.

Also, is it meant to work with people that multiclass? Like, 3 levels of divine casting and 17 levels of arcane would let you use the Improved Spellcasting Reservoir for both classes?

I have no idea what any of that is.

To answer your question, that is not the intent, no.

Drejk wrote:
Looks quite like Endless Power Archmage mythic path ability turned into a chain of non-mythic feats.
What's that?

Fabricate Bullets allows you to craft 30 gp worth of firearm bullets at the cost of 2 gp. Even selling at half price, it's a net gain of 13 gp. It's a level 1 spell. If you can cast it as much as you want, you can earn a lot of money with it.

Vanish is the level 1 invisibility spell. I'm sure you can see how this would get used.

Blood Money lets you take 1 Str damage in exchange for 500 gp worth of material components for a spell. You can take as much strength damage as you want, so if you took 10 str damage you could cast a spell that would normall cost 5000 gp. Combined with lesser restoration gives you lots of expensive spells, but no single class has access to both of these spells, so it might not actually work. But, someone more creative than I might know another trick.

Souldrinker is a funky prestige class. It gets Energy Drain at level 2. When you use the Energy Drain ability (it's an at will ability) you get soul points. Soul points can be used for material components, crafting magic items, and a few other things. If you only have 2 levels in souldrinker, a 2 HD animal will give you 100 gp worth of souls to use in crafting or whatever. You can summon things with 2 HD with summon monster 1. So, you can summon a bunch of wimpy animals, energy drain them, and then use their souls for other stuff.

Grace is a swift action and lets you run around without provoking AoO. Good for clerics that need to reposition themselves.

Scratch the gallant inspiration, being that it's a level 2 bard spell.

But, the other thing is buff spells like Resist Energy and Shield of Faith. Both of these scale with level, so you could use these feats to have basically a permanent +5 deflection AC and 30 energy resistance on the entire party. I know from experience that that can make things a little easier than they should be... because I like to break things...

Infinite summon monster 1 can give a level 2 souldrinker infinite money (summon a 2 HD monster, use the energy drain on it, repeat). The money can only be used for certain things, though.

Being able to cast lesser restoration at will would pretty much negate ability damage from the Blood Money spell, which lets you cast expensive stuff without any worries - including animate dead. You would have to multiclass for that, though.

There's a few immediate/swift action spells that would be spammed a lot (Grace and Gallant Inspiration are the first that come to mind). Prepared casters would get a lot of versatility for their lower level spells.

Borderline constant invisibility - which goes well with the summon monster spells and animate dead.

Fabricate Bullets at will would be a stupid way of getting infinite money.

I would compare with Spell Expertise. There are probably other ways these feats could be abused, but those are the first things I thought of.

Also, is it meant to work with people that multiclass? Like, 3 levels of divine casting and 17 levels of arcane would let you use the Improved Spellcasting Reservoir for both classes?

Find Traps on an item would depend on the caster level you wanted. If you wanted the minimum caster level:

2 (spell level) x 3 (minimum caster level) x 2000 = 12000 for use activated (at will, uses the weapon slot)

It would be 24000 if it was slotless.

12000/5 = 2400 gives the price for being able to activate it once a day (it would be 4800 if it didn't take up a slot).

And that was base price; crafting cost would be half that.

Loremaster can give bonus feats and some interesting knowledge abilities, which can be useful if you want more metamagic or item creation feats.

SRD wrote:
In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.

Well, by RAW, I think that's just scrolls, potions, and wands. Wondrous items usually use command word or use-activation, which is in a separate category on the chart for Magic Item Creation, so I think you can make any of those without the spells if you can make the crafting DC. Metamagic rods I think can be made without the metamagic feats they give. I'm not sure if rods and staves that cast spells are spell-trigger, spell-completion, or use-activated.

The reason Hideous Laughter wouldn't work is because it is a single target spell. In most cases, a mass version of the spell will bump it up several levels. Mass Cure Light Wounds, for example, is a level 5 spell, whereas Cure Light Wounds is a level 1 spell.

The Copper Dragon has an ability called Mass Laughter:

SRD Copper Dragon wrote:

Mass Laughter (Sp)

An ancient copper dragon can tell a fantastic joke once per day as a standard action. All creatures within 10 feet per age category must make a Will save or laugh for 1 round per age category, as if affected by hideous laughter. The save DC is Charisma-based. This is equal to a 6th-level spell.

That's where the idea of it being the equivalent to a 6th-level spell comes from. CLW goes up four spell levels for the mass version. Hideous Laughter would also up four spell levels if there was a mass version (going off of the wizard spell list).

If you go off a bard's spells, it might be 4th or 5th level.

I hope this helps to clarify.

SRD wrote:
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).


So based on how immunity to mind-affecting effects is described, morale bonuses would be included. Undead like vampires have a Sense Motive skill modifier, so I am fairly certain they are not immune to bluffs. I'm pretty sure the same goes for diplomacy, but I'm not sure. And I don't know for intimidate, I'd have to look around.

primemover003 wrote:

Whoa there... that might be how the chart prices it out but that's WAY too cheap for the effect you're looking for! 3,600 gp for an area effect hideous laughter? As a GM I would say no to this item immediately.

Wondrous items are more of an art to design than a science. For example the ability you're looking for is possessed by the CR 17 Ancient Copper Dragon and is considered a 6th level spell effect. So basing it off the 1st level Bard spell doesn't really balance its power level. You need to see if there is similar effect in the game already and use that as a benchmark. Then you have to play with it until it feels just right.

Check out the RPG Superstar boards to see many good threads about making Wondrous Items. You'll learn quite a bit. You might even want to try your hand at it come the end of December!

--Vrock Superstar

Agreed, using the level 1 spell wouldn't give an appropriate price. My guess would have been that it's a fourth level spell effect, but he pointed out the example of a sixth level spell effect that does it. So it would be spell level x caster level x 2000 (use-activated):

6 x 11 (i'm assuming wizard spell) x 2000

If it's a bard only thing:
6 x 16 x 2000

So, it would be MUCH more than 3 or 4 times as much, because you have to add to the spell level AND to the caster level, not just the spell level. You'll have to figure out what level spell you would be emulating.

Also, 1800 is command word, 2000 is use-activated. They're a bit different, but use whatever makes you happy.

SRD wrote:
Slotless: Items not worn or carried in one of the above slots are called “slotless” items. Sometimes these items take the form of trinkets, like figurines of wondrous power. Other times they are larger items, such as the carpet of flying. Typically the possession of such an item is enough to gain its benefit, but sometimes one must manipulate and activate the item.

(emphasis mine)

This is why slotless items are worth extra; you do not need to wield them or hold them or anything in order to use them. So he could actually scribe tattoos all over his body for each slot and be able to choose which tattoo to use when necessary; they don't even need to be in the hand slot.

Transfer Tattoo makes tattoos transferable. Discounts would have to come from alignment, class, and/or skill restrictions (unless you want to house rule stuff).

SRD wrote:

Item Requires Skill to Use: Some items require a specific skill to get them to function. This factor should reduce the cost about 10%.

Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the price by 30%.

I've seen debate over whether these should decrease costs or not. By RAW, I would say they decrease cost, but you can interpret these things how you want.

Caster's Tattoos use a swift action to activate, but they're a bit different from what it sounds like you're going for.

This is what the rules have for metamagic rods (and, by extension, a metamagic tattoo):

SRD wrote:
Possession of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day. A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses (except for quicken metamagic rods, which can be used as a swift action).

Metamagic rods (which is what the effect of the tattoos sounds more like) function the same way as the feat. In the case of someone using a metamagic rod, it makes the act of casting a spell a full-round action if they are a spontaneous caster. In the case of a prepared caster, it has no effect on casting time. Activating the metamagic rod (and a metamagic tattoo, from my understanding) would not require an action. It's effects would be dependent on the type of caster.


SRD wrote:
A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with metamagic feats possessed by the rod's wielder.

. So, only one tattoo can be used on a spell at a time.


The cost should be double unless the tattoo is given alignment, class, and/or skill restrictions, because it IS transferable with a spell.

Tattoos (and rods) both take no action to activate. Spontaneous casters are required to cast the spell as a full-round action unless using quicken spell.

Only one rod (or one tattoo) can be used at a time.

Essentially, the tattoo just means he doesn't have something in his hand. It's not a big deal if the cost must be doubled (also, if tattoos can have discounts for restrictions, so can rods; he should definitely be spending double the normal amount for the tattoos)

Hope this answers all your questions.

The Sleeping Dragon wrote:
Are there ways of increasing the speed without the use of hedge magician trait, or peing able to cast planar travel spells?

For increasing speed, these are the things I know of:

Amazing Tools of Manufacture (you have to use the craft skill, but it doesn't specify whether it's only for non-magical stuff, so you could use Craft: Tattoo).

Cooperative Crafting if you happen to have a cohort or something that can assist.

SRD wrote:
This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by 5.

Dwarf favored class:

SRD wrote:
Wizard: Select one item creation feat known by the wizard. Whenever he crafts an item using that feat, the amount of progress he makes in an 8-hour period increases by 200 gp (50 gp if crafting while adventuring). This does not reduce the cost of the item; it just increases the rate at which the item is crafted.

Arcane Builder

Perhaps when it's not my nap time I'll look at the other questions you asked. Hope this helps.

Summon monster spells eventually give you access to healing spells. Summon Monster 3 I know can get lantern archons with aid (temp hp is kinda like healing at least). Later you can get cure spells and even heal. Not as effective as a straight up cleric, but it's something.

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My two friends were playing thieves (back in the day when they weren't rogues) and were in the process of looting a treasure chest. A monster popped out of nowhere and knocked one of them unconscious. The one that was still standing decides to retaliate:

Thief: "You hurt my friend!" *rolls a natural 1* "... And I'm not gonna do ANYTHING about it!" *dies*

87) Deliberately mispronouncing a demon's name makes it sickened and staggered.

88) You can run 120 feet in six seconds. If you mispronounce that demon's name, you can now run only 30 feet in those six seconds, because saying that name just really slowed you down... somehow...

89) If you can normally swing a sword 4 times in six seconds, mispronouncing that name takes so much effort that now you can only swing it once.

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I was gone for a session. My character ended up alone with one other character for a long period of time, which led to that player saying this:

"I would say our characters hook up, but that feels like the RPG version of rape."

Well, the bard ability just says "weapon," so I think it works with guns. Probably not what was intended, but it works.

Robe of the Archmagi is the best example I've found of an item with multiple discounts. The price is only 75000, but the spell resistance on its own is worth 60000. As soon as you put the saving throw bonus on its already worth over 80000. At one point I figured out an approximate value for it, and it was well over 100k. Adding all alignment, class, and skill restriction discounts was the only way to get the price to 75000(plus change). And the crafting cost is 50% the market price. This is one of the items that I base my previous statements on (that you can use multiple discounts and such).

RAW does not exclude any types of magic items from being discounted. As Malachi mentioned, tattoos are already exclusive to an individual, so it would be sensible to rule that discounts cannot be applied to tattoos. However, the RAW does not support this, because RAW doesn't have anything excluding particular magic items from the discounts. As much as I agree that it is a very silly idea, you can technically apply the discounts to a tattoo.

I don't know what RAI is in this situation, but a 30% discount for an alignment restriction probably won't screw things up that much. As you said, you're essentially handing out ioun stones that can't be sold. Also, I'll just mention that I've found cheesier than the 65% or so discount you can get if you use all of the discount things.

Monster Cohorts

I'm not sure about having them as followers, but as cohorts it is possible. A mimic probably counts as a level 8 or 9. I'm not sure about the bag. If you can figure out a CR for it, you could figure out what your leadership score needs to be.

minstrel01 wrote:

Aah think when it happened in one of my games people could just choose connected squares..

since there's no "facing" in pathfinder anyway. so front.. could be back etc etc....but that would give a ruling that if your start with 2 friends on opposite sides.. they'd have to end on opposite sides as well i gues.

Reason why im so interested in this setting is because ive encountered it before, as player and GM.

First this was only used as a getaway, resulting in hilarious effort of players exclaiming to join the wizard in his travel and then scrambling over each other to find the invisible wizard. All good fun.

Then it changed from a defensive role to the offense. And became absolute murder. Distance was no longer a defense against full round attacks. The instant positioning and flank was just too much for most NPC's.

The GM ruled after a time that; the taxi would cost a movement action for the passengers. Resulting in a stream of objections from players that soon disappeared after the GM explained it could also be used against them.

I love how the whole thing where the GM can use it is supposed to be the ultimate argument winner for things that seem powerful... My GM actually HAS used that against us... It was quite a pain to try to handle the 4 or 5 rogues that were suddenly full-attacking (with sneak attack damage) the spellcasters.

minstrel01 wrote:
aah k , and what about choosing squares for the lugage?

I think everything is in the same arrangement before and after the teleport. So, if the fighter is in front of the wizard and the rogue is on the wizard's left when the wizard teleports, I think that's how they finish the teleport. I have no rules for that, though, I'd have to see if I can find anything.

Ah, I see what you're saying. So the target of the swing is always the target of the spell? That gives other equally stupid options, but not with true strike.

minstrel01 wrote:

just wondering if this maneuver would cost the allies an action?

and where would everybody end up after the steps?

how would something like this play out?


3 people are battling a necromancer, a fighter, thief and you (the wizard)
The necromancer attempts to slip away, and the party cant get passed his skeletons quick anough.

The fighter and thief stand next to each other hacking away at the skeletons, and decide to delay their action till the mext turn of the wizard.

The wizards turn has arrived and leaves his position of safety, walks up to the fighter and thief from the rear. Grabs each of his friends by the shoulder and says "here we go!"

His destination is located right next to the necromancer on a square to the North East. The fighter chooses a square connected to the wizards.. and picks North. The thief ends up East.

The thief declares he'll act first and takes a 5 foot step to the square south of the necromancer, flanking him with the fighter's aid. Next the thief makes his full attack leaving the necromancer bleeding hard.

The fighter takes his turn next and decapitates the distracted necromancer.

-choosing squares?
-thief & fighter dont loose an action?

I'll use the FAQ from dimension door:

Dimension Door FAQ wrote:


Dimension door says, "After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn." If the caster brings other creatures with them when they cast the spell, are the passengers unable to take any other actions until their next turn, or is that just for the caster?

That restriction only applies to the caster.

The restriction of no more actions only applies to the caster (no restriction on actions from dimensional steps, btw). By extension, the restriction of having used up a standard action only applies to the caster. The other two will still have all their actions.

SRD wrote:

Many magic items need to be donned by a character who wants to employ them or benefit from their abilities. It's possible for a creature with a humanoid-shaped body to wear as many as 15 magic items at the same time. However, each of those items must be worn on (or over) a particular part of the body, known as a “slot.”

A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear consisting of one item from each of the following groups, keyed to which slot on the body the item is worn.

Armor: This slot is used for suits of armor that are worn.
Belts: This slot consists of belts and other items that can be worn around the waist.
Body: This slot consists of body wraps, cassocks, corsets, dusters, harnesses, robes, vestments and any other article of clothing that can be worn on the body.
Chest: This slot consists of jackets, mantels, shirts, vests and other items that can be worn around the torso or chest.
Eyes: This slot consists of goggles, lenses, monocles, spectacles, and other items that can be worn over the eyes.
Feet: This slot consists of boots, horseshoes, sandals, shoes, slippers, and other items that can be worn on the feet.
Hands: This slot consists of gauntlets, gloves, and other items that can worn on the hands.
Head: This slot consists of circlets, crowns, hats, helms, hoods, masks, and other items that can be worn on the head.
Headband: This slot consists of bands, headbands,
laurels, phylacteries, and other non-head slot items that can be worn around the forehead.
Neck: This slot consists of amulets, brooches, medallions, necklaces, periapts, scarabs, and other items that can be worn around the neck or fastened to a cloak.
Ring (up to two): rings.
Shield: This slot is for carried shields.
Shoulders: This slot consists of capes, cloaks, cords, mantels, pauldrons, shawls, stoles, wings, and other items that can be worn on the shoulders.
Wrists: This slot consists of armbands, bracelets, bracers, gauntlets, manacles, shackles, vambraces, and other items that can worn over the wrists.
Slotless: Items not worn or carried in one of the above slots are called “slotless” items. Sometimes these items take the form of trinkets, like figurines of wondrous power. Other times they are larger items, such as the carpet of flying. Typically the possession of such an item is enough to gain its benefit, but sometimes one must manipulate and activate the item.
Of course, a character may carry or possess as many items of the same type as he wishes. However, additional items beyond those in the slots listed above have no effect.

Some items can be worn or carried without taking up a slot on a character's body. The description of an item indicates when an item has this property.

This implies that any creature always has only 15 slots. Regardless of how many heads, arms, legs, or whatever a creature has, it cannot benefit from extra items. Yes, you can argue that this only specifies humanoids. Again, I don't know where there are rules for this, so I'm showing the rules that relate to the question.

As for goggles of minute seeing (I didn't see an item called goggles of true seeing, this is close to what you probably had in mind)... technically, by RAW, just one head has to wear them. It says "placed over the eyes of the wearer," but it does not say that it has to be ALL of its eyes.

Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

If an intelligent item uses TS, it uses it's own action to do so, and it affects the weapon, not the wielder, making it useless.

A magic ability, whether wondrous, wand, weapon, whatever, can be used to cast TS on the wielder. It would take a standard action (the 'activate magic item' action) to use, and then 'Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus.'

From a warriors point of view, this means that instead of:-
• round one-full attack
• round two-full attack
It would be:-
• round one-activate true strike
• round two-full attack with the first attack at +20

This makes it useful in surprise rounds or against invisible opponents (TS let's you ignore concealment miss chance), but much less useful in the middle of a combat.

That ability would cost 2000gp (all else being equal), or 1800gp if activated by command word.

You could make it a quickened True Strike! You would activate it as a swift action, even during a full attack! It would only work once/round, and it would cost 90000gp! Or 81000gp with command word!

As for 'use activated'? To get a +20 sword for 2000gp? No chance!

'Use activated' for a weapon means that the target you hit gets affected by the spell/ability. You could use an attack action to hit yourself! Then the attack you made after that would be at +20!

The idea that the act of swinging a sword gives the wielder a +20 with that attack, every time you swing, for 2000gp, is just wishful thinking! It's RAW that magic items must be approved by a DM. The devs themselves have stated that there is no such item. Which sane DM would allow it? If such an item were allowed, then every magic weapon in the world would be a use activated True Strike!

From the magic items page:

SRD wrote:
Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. a character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.

Before I say anything else, we disallowed making an item that does that with true strike, for the reasons you said. It's slightly retarded that it's 2000 for +20 to all your attacks.

That said, if you went strictly by formula, wouldn't that work? I don't see why it would affect something else with true strike.

Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

I wasn't commenting on the discount thing, just correcting the maths.

On the subject of the discount, if I was DM I would not give a discount to create a tattoo like that. Only the tattoo'd creature can use it, so the idea that you'd get a discount by making it harder for others to use it (when they can't use it anyway) is not a meaningful restriction.

Ah, I didn't notice the earlier maths. My bad.

Disallowing discounts for the tats does make sense, actually. Although, weird players might try to argue that if the person had split personalities, the discounts prevent the tattoos from being used by all of them...

I have no idea where to find actual rules for that situation, so I'm basing this on the Vestigial Arm ability that alchemists can get:

SRD wrote:

Vestigial Arm (Ex)

Benefit: The alchemist gains a new arm (left or right) on his torso. The arm is fully under his control and cannot be concealed except with magic or bulky clothing. The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist’s attack routine (using two-weapon fighting). The arm can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist’s original arms (for example, allowing the alchemist to use one hand to wield a weapon, another hand to hold a potion, and the third hand to throw a bomb). The arm has its own “hand” and “ring” magic item slots (though the alchemist can still only wear two rings and two hand magic items at a time).

Special: An alchemist may take this discovery up to two times.


So, based on this, they would have multiple neck slots, but could still only wear one neck slot item. That's my best guess.

SRD wrote:

A magic weapon is enhanced to strike more truly and deliver more damage. Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5. They apply these bonuses to both attack and damage rolls when used in combat. All magic weapons are also masterwork weapons, but their masterwork bonuses on attack rolls do not stack with their enhancement bonuses on attack rolls.

Weapons come in two basic categories: melee and ranged. Some of the weapons listed as melee weapons can also be used as ranged weapons. In this case, their enhancement bonuses apply to both melee and ranged attacks.

Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.

Magic Weapons

Magic Items

In case you want to see where I got my information.

SRD wrote:

Sometimes, lack of funds or time make it impossible for a magic item crafter to create the desired item from scratch. Fortunately, it is possible to enhance or build upon an existing magic item. Only time, gold, and the various prerequisites required of the new ability to be added to the magic item restrict the type of additional powers one can place.

The cost to add additional abilities to an item is the same as if the item was not magical, less the value of the original item. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 longsword.

If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character's body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection 2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.

You can disregard the third paragraph, being that you are going to be following the rules for magic weapons. I just kept that in case you wanted it for future reference.

As for making the flaming longsword:

You have a +1 longsword to start with. If you just add flaming, you calculate the cost as though you were making it a +2 longsword. This is because flaming is worth a +1 enhancement bonus, which adds on top of the existing +1 to make it a +2 for the purpose of determining the cost. This does not mean it is a +2 longsword; it is still just +1 to hit and damage.

The price for a +2 weapon is (2)^2 x 2000 gp = 8000 gp. Subtract the value of the existing +1 longsword (worth 2000 gp) to see what the INCREASE in base price is: 8000 - 2000 = 6000 gp. The cost for crafting that is 3000 gp, and would take 6 days (unless you do the accelerated crafting, which could reduce the time to 3 days).

If you wanted to make it a +2 flaming weapon, the total base price would be 18000 gp (the value of a +3 weapon). The increase from the +1 longsword is 16000 gp, the crafting cost would be 8000 gp, and it would take 16 days (8 accelerated).

A +1 flaming bane weapon would be the equivalent of a +3 weapon. Bane is worth a +1, and flaming is also worth a +1. A weapon has to have a +1 enhancement bonus before adding other abilities, which is why I made it a +1 flaming bane weapon. So, the overall enhancement bonus for determining cost is +3, but it is a +1 weapon for to hit and damage bonuses. The base price is 18000 gp, which would require 18 days and 9000 gp to craft.

You would also add the cost of a masterwork weapon into these figures if you didn't already have one to work with. I assume you would just buy one, though.

Clear as mud?

It's not specified, but I think you have to be touching the other person being that they are brought WITH the caster. It also does not specify how far the willing target can be, which I think implies that they have to be with you (next to you) when you use the ability. The wording is similar to teleport and dimension door, if you want to compare the ability with those spells.

Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

Your maths is out!

1 squared=1
2 squared=4
3 squared=9
4 squared=16
5 squared=25

Multiplied by 2000gp gives a base price at each plus:-

Now you can start doubling the price for being slotless. It gets expensive!

Yes, but only if you can't add the discounts to that. Discounts make things much cheaper if you stack them up (and again, I don't know about RAI on this).

Howie23 wrote:

Your call, bro. But, if you call it ridiculous by RAW and then use it anyway, it's tough to give credence to, "...I'm not trying to break game..."

Seems to me that in a world that adheres to this RAW, that the baddy's with magic items would all have alignment-restricted versions, which would increase their gear load-out and leave the PCs with a poor selection of treasure.

But, I guess that's a discussion for a different forum.

True, but our GM scales baddies up if we get stronger anyway. Finding obscure ways of beefing ourselves up with overpowered magic items is a double-edge sword, because we just end up in tougher fights. Or in an anti-magic field. So realistically, there's no advantage. And I've pointed out stuff like this for my GM to use against us to keep things challenging.

Perhaps RAI is that you adjust your stats as though using beast shape, but gain the abilities of the Ooze (including acid, blindsight, and whatever else an ooze has). Just throwing out guesses as to how this version of wild shape is supposed to be worth the archetype.

Howie23 wrote:
There is some stuff in these forums, I believe from developers, but not sure, that point toward the idea that the price reduction for alignment restriction, etc. reduces the marketability of an item (lower price), but not the creation cost. I'll leave it to those with better search fu.

That may be RAI, but I'm just pointing out RAW:

SRD wrote:

Other Considerations: Once you have a cost figure, reduce that number if either of the following conditions applies:

Item Requires Skill to Use: Some items require a specific skill to get them to function. This factor should reduce the cost about 10%.

Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the price by 30%.

Prices presented in the magic item descriptions (the gold piece value following the item's slot) are the market value, which is generally twice what it costs the creator to make the item.

Cost and price are used interchangeably. You could argue that requiring a skill only reduces the cost, not the base price, since it specifically says cost. You could also argue that requiring a class and/or alignment just reduces the base price, not the cost. However, the cost is figured out by cutting the base price in half, so I don't see how (by RAW, mind you) how reducing the market price would not then reduce the cost. The way I think of it, you're skimping on cost by making the item super quirky, and the quirks make it nonfunctional for most people.

I haven't been on the forums long enough to know about old threads with RAI or such from devs, so I can only use RAW to answer questions =P. Although yes, RAW is often quite ridiculous.

If you give the intelligent item True Strike as an intelligent item ability, then the item would cast that on itself since the range is personal. You can still give it true strike as a normal magic item ability, though; it doesn't have to be one of the intelligent item powers. In that case, you could activate the true strike spell and it would affect you, not the item.

Also, you can always do use-activated: swing weapon. That means you get the true strike every time you swing. Little bit broken, but well within the rules.

It looks like wouldn't get the acid damage. If you compare to elemental body, that spell specifically mentions getting the burn ability. Acid damage is not something mentioned in the beast shape spells, so I think you would only get the other benefits of being an ooze. Not sure how much sense it makes to turn into a giant glob of acid and then do normal damage, but this is pathfinder; things don't have to make sense.

I think everything you've done is correct. Also, regarding item discounts, I have seen items in the rules that appear to have several of the discounts applied (as in a class restriction and an alignment restriction). The rules don't say anything about having only one applied. You could technically add all 3 of them, in which case the formula would look like this:

(+1)^2 x 2000 = 2000 x 30% discount x 30% discount x 10% discount = 882 x2 = 1764 gp.

Just don't go giving people tramp stamps.

SRD wrote:


Occasionally the rules ask you to round a result or value. Unless otherwise stated, always round down. For example, if you are asked to take half of 7, the result would be 3.

Link to where you can find the rule.

I think if you go strictly by RAW, those bonus combat maneuvers would technically suffer from the miss chance. I think RAI is that if you hit with the normal part of the attack, the combat maneuvers don't have a miss chance. If a creature has grab and hits you, I don't understand why it would have any extra difficulty closing its fingers (or claws, or hentai-tentacles, or whatever) to start the grapple, assuming it succeeds on the CMB. If you go strictly by RAW, concealment and invisibility essentially give double protection against that stuff. That said, I don't think any GM should go by that.

Drejk wrote:
Joanna Swiftblade wrote:
StreamOfTheSky wrote:

A Synthesist Summoner might be able to get his Str that high...

He can't cast wish, though....

EDIT: Start as an Orc w/ maximized Str, for a 22. Dip Ragechemist 1 and Barbarian 1.

+5 inherent (from a manual)
+4 level up (I'll assume you want to pull this off before level 20, otherwise...+5)
+6 enhancement
+6 Ragechemist
+4 Rage

= 47 Str

Still not enough...

Large size + greater rage = +4 str. 51 str. You're welcome.

Greater rage is Barbarian 11. There is also a small problem of not being able to cast while raging without special abilities.

However, some of the bonuses could be replaced with form of the dragon III (+10 size bonus to Str).

EDIT: +5 inherent bonus to Strength can be replaced with +6 inherent bonus to Strength from the Sorcerer's Abyssal or Orc bloodlines.


Orc with maximized starting Strength of 22.
+6 inherent
+4 level increase
+6 enhancement
+10 size bonus for form of the dragon III
+4 alchemical bonus from the Alchemist's mutagen (1 level of Alchemist required)

Aaand we have a total of 52 Strength. It will hurt as hell when the polymorph and mutagen end so better have someone who'll heal a minimum of 14 points of Strength damage...

You can get up to another +10 morale bonus from the Blood Rage spell.

I think ablative barrier would be affected first, because it is creating a shield around the target creature. So an incoming attack must first go through the barrier, and then it causes damage as normal. Then the extra hit points from false life would be affected.

SRD wrote:

The Pathfinder Core Rulebook is somewhat vague on the requirements of resting and sleeping so the following is an extrapolation of existing rules combined with rules taken from combined with a bit of our own personal ideas. Use at your discretion.

The Pathfinder rules clearly indicate that the only types of creatures that do not sleep are constructs, oozes, plants and undead. Most other creature types must rest on a somewhat regular cycle. There are specific examples that do not, such as elementals. The exact required duration of that rest is unclear as well as the consequences of having less than the required amount of rest.

We think it is reasonable that most creatures must rest for approximately 1/3 of every day, which in most worlds translates to roughly 8 hours per day.

For most creatures resting means sleeping. In some worlds some races can gain the benefits of rest simply by sitting quietly maintaining an awareness of their surroundings, while in other worlds those races must sleep, which leaves them vulnerable to attack.

In any case, these are the actual benefits of rest, per the Pathfinder Core Rules.

Armor Note: A creature that rests or sleeps in medium or heavier armor gains the fatigued condition if they do not possess either the Endurance feat or some other class or race ability which allows them to sleep in such uncomfortable gear.

Fatigue from Lack of Sleep
Characters who do not get a full night's sleep may suffer the effects of fatigue. If a PC does not get at least 6 hours of sleep, she must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or be fatigued and take a –1 penalty on all other checks and saving throws against sleep effects. A second night without sleep requires another DC 15 Fortitude save. A failed save results in the character becoming exhausted and the penalties increasing to –2. A third failed save on the next night increases the penalties to –3

That's what I could find from the pathfinder site (Link)

It doesn't necessarily say how long it takes to get the fatigued condition, but I think it means that if you stay up all night you have to make a saving throw in the morning.

sowhereaminow wrote:

After reading this thread, I'm coming away with two things:

1. Playing a cleric that heals every little nick and cut in combat, despite having other options (aka healbot), is a suboptimal play style.

2. Playing a cleric that never heals anyone in combat, even to prevent a fellow party member's death, is also a suboptimal play style.

My two cents. Your mileage may vary.

Shh! Don't make things so simple, let them fight it out a bit more. It's fun to watch.

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