Talion09's page

Isn't there a line of the spell description that states if something leaves the possession of the target, it reverts back to its natural size?

In any case, I rule that only things that were in your possesion at the time of the casting are enlarged (or reduced as the case may be). Whether or not that is a houserule or an actual Sage ruling I'm not 100% sure, but I believe its official.

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I can't think of much else to add except I think in "Prelim Research" there would be more than 8000 words needed. The stat blocks would need to be full-on for almost everything except the lizardfolk grunts and the chuul. Plus everything else. Not sure if the ed's look at the estimates and if they judge it to be too far over/under and that knocks points off the proposal's "grade".
...

Thanks for the feedback and encouragement.

Looking back at my notes for Preliminary Research, I was a little low on the estimated word count. I had figured out how many encounters, did the rough math and then added the reccomended 1000 words on top for the intro, scaling, etc.

I didn't take the custom/non-core stat blocks into account, which would probably bump it up closer to 10 000.

I'm looking at starting up a new campaign, and my players have requested something in the vein of "classic" or "old school" Greyhawk.

So I'm looking at either updating the orginal Temple of Elemental Evil to 3.5 (many of the players have played through it in older editions of D&D), or running one of the adventure paths. I already have the SC hardcover, but to be honest, I picked it up more on reputation, and haven't actually gone through it in detail yet. And I have the Dungeon issues for Age of Worms as well.

So which AP has a more classic Greyhawk feel?

*I'm leaning towards Age of Worms in this regard, but as I said, I haven't gone over SC yet.

I find that with any lengthy project I go through cyclical phases. Admittedly, too often, there's the short lived "This-is-pure-genious-I-am-a-generic-diety-who-deserves-his-own-planar layer-phase", which is shortly followed by a "Nobody-will-read-this-crap-I-should-voluntarily-fail-my-stabilization-chec k-phase."

Sometimes I alternate a few times before falling somewhere in the middle.

I think that the reality is that at some point you start to get too close to an idea and it becomes difficult to appraise it critically.

Holding perspective is particularly challenging with the fantasy genre when the line between 'something innovative' and 'painfully over the top' can blur deceptively quick in-between sips of a Dr. Pepper.

One thing you might try, rather than hitting the delete key irrevocably, is to just save your work for another day. An idea which stymies one day, might fire up another time, especially if it suddenly finds itself ready to be combined with another concept.

Just my pensive musings on a Friday. . . Have a good weekend all.

-MiKe

Another option, besides saving your work and looking at it another day, is to print it out, hand it to one of your fellow gamers, and then get it back from them the next session, hopefully with some feedback.

That way, you have let the project rest for a week or so (depending on your gaming cycle), so you will be looking at it with relatively fresh eyes. And you should also have some feedback from a fellow gamer as well.

James Sutter has stated on another thread that they are getting caught up on all of the latest submissions. In fact, if you had some new queries to send in to Paizo, now would be a good time to get them in. He has said that the wait to hear back would most likely be days instead of weeks.

Uh... now I'm torn about what to do, lol

My character died (a very explosive death) in our last session, and I was going to go through my books and work up a new character this weekend, along with the usual non RPG stuff. And I want to find some time to fit watching King Kong in too.

But on the other hand, I REALLY want to get some new queries in. Especially if now is a good time and the response time is days instead of weeks.

hmm... decisions, decisions....

Hmm.... I was re-reading both of the rejected queries while working on a new query, and I discovered something that I missed the first time, and that no one has commented on yet.

Length is definitly an issue for Preliminary Research, as it clocks in at 1211 words. The Bandits query was just under 1000 words.

While I broke the 1000 words max rule, I did keep it all on two pages in a readable font/size (Times New Roman/10). James Sutter didn't comment on this, but I doubt that going over the word count was a good thing.

So this is a habit I'll have to try and break. (Oddly enough, my query that made it past the Gatekeeper was 1222 words.)

Anyone mind if I archive their Query onto the Wiki?

http://subculture.teknohippy.com

Sure, you can use any of mine that I post here. Just same as Zherog, as long as my name stays attached to it.

How bout this - maybe it should have been Allustan's Floating Disc or Allustan's Transformation. Allustan did the bulk of the research for either spell but it went unrecognized and Tenser got the glory. Allustan has never forgiven him for it. It wouldn't be the first time someone who heads up a lab gets credit for no work and the poor sclepps are ignored.

Well, the alignment/philosophy difference sounds about right to me, but then I'm not exactly current on my Greyhawk history...

But I like the sounds of this better, lol

You could have Allustan muttering about how it was actually his Floating Disc spell for days after the PCs ask him about the rift.

Or better yet, have him cast the spell on the way to somewhere with the party (Blackwall?) and then get all huffy when a PC asks him about his "TENSER'S floating disk".

...

I like the pickpocket stuff; one thing you didn't go into (and I understand space is a consideration) is what if the pickpocket is successful? How can the PCs get back the instructions?
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--John

Well, that was actually a bit of a typo that got past my proofreader & I <oops>

The party is supposed to recieve multiple copies of the instructions. Elegost didn't want to risk anything, like the one person with the map getting eaten by a sabertooth titan :-)

....Second, while you have Eberron references (a warforged, Blood of Vol, etc) this really doesn't feel like an Eberron adventure. I don't know if I can explain it, though. I guess the best way to explain it is this: I can take all the Eberron elements you have in here, and in five minutes replace them with generic stuff; and this won't really impact the feel of the adventure. *shrug* I don't know if that's making any sense.

....

Is this a word I'm not familiar with? You use it several times, both as part of a name ("...the ruins of Castel Borghese.") as well as by itself ("The Castel is an old..."). MS Word certainly doesn't like it (though that doesn't mean much).

1. Yeah, it didn't really have the Eberron feel. It was more of a generic adventure that got Eberron elements tacked on since I was writing other Eberron adventures at the time.

This adventure was the first one I sent in, and it was more of a trial run. I was playing around with the query format, and I basically didn't want to "waste" a good idea on the first try.

2. Castel is just another version of Castle, it's an old pronounciation. I just like the "old world" feel of it.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback.

The classics for me were the old boxed sets. My brother and I and our friend down the street first played "Expert" D&D during a vacation week at the shore with some guys across the street with a run through Castle Amber. ...

L

Funny, but off topic:

My first experience was playing AD&D, and *then* I went to the boxed sets (basic, expert, etc)... and then I went back to AD&D, then on to 2nd edition, 3.0/3.5, etc.

I guess the AD&D stuff was a little harder for a 10 year old kid, so I was given the good old boxed sets... This just got brought back to mind from the "elves as a class" comment

With all respect to the younger generation gamers, I'm with Talion - I grew into D&D with Greyhawk and all of the 1st Ed. modules...you name it, I either read it, played it or ran it, all the way through 2nd Ed. - although, strangely, I've avoided Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Dark Sun and pretty much everything outside of Greyhawk.

I might be lacking for knowledge by focusing on a single campaign setting for 25 years, but by golly, I know that world like the back of my hand.

Without having read that particular piece, I think that Erik wrote from his own frame of reference, and thus, all of us should reminisce from our own places and appreciate how the game now crosses generations, in its own way for each of us.

M

I just want to add that I do have fond memories of Eberron, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, the various computer games... but to me, they came after the originals, thus they are relegated to a lesser status in my mind when talking about classic dnd.

* I've had the most fun I've ever had playing 3.0/3.5 in Eberron... but I can hardly call a setting that has been out for only two years a classic. Ask me again in a decade or so, lol

I don't disagree with the OP (and others since) who different opinions of what the "classic" era or "classic" setting is, since its all relative to your own memories of the game. Or memories of the computer game based on DnD, since someone brought up Baldur's Gate, and the great line of SSI DnD games.

But I personally think that classic DnD for me is Greyhawk. I can remember a time before the Forgotten Realms (or at least before the first box set anyways) and a time when Dragonlance was just starting out. When Ravenloft was a creepy adventure and not a campaign setting. Hell, I remember being excited when the "new" Fiend Folio or Monster Manual II came out, since we now had more monsters to slay.

But my favorite memories are of Greyhawk adventures. The Temple of Elemental Evil, Slavers adventures, Against the Giants, the introduction of the drow and underdark.... now that was a great campaign arc. Saltmarsh. Tomb of the Lizard King. Tomb of Horrors.

Those were the adventure that still stand out from my early DnD days. And those are the adventures that I've converted from AD&D into 2nd edition, and then again into 3.0/3.5. And my players (from differing generations) now have fond memories of those adventures as well.

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So basically, I agree with Eric's editorial. Classic DnD is Greyhawk. At least for me anyways.

Koldoon wrote:

Talion09 wrote:

Here is the 2nd adventure query that got rejected today:

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"Preliminary Research"

General Information: This Eberron mid-level adventure is designed for 4 6th level PCs.

This is actually quite good - I would try to use a little less passive voice, but I suspect that you would have made it to the meeting with this one if they didn't have something similar.

- Ashavan

I agree. Good stuff. I'd run this adventure in a heartbeat. I'd probably make the travel there on the elemental ship bumpier though--agents of whomever trying to jack the players for the map or whatnot. Like every time James Bond got on a train and thought things would be sedate, along comes Jaws to rip a hole in the wall and try to murder him.

Is what you posted in general what you sent them form-wise? I was just wondering how to exactly write one of these queries up. That looked pretty good.

1. I was trying to make the ocean going travel a little easier, at least until they got onto the smaller boat and ran into the border guards and the scrag. I didn't want to fall into the cliche where everytime you get on a boat (or airship or Lightning Rail, this was an Eberron adventure) you get attacked by pirates, or the ship sinks, or you get lost in the Bermuda Triangle etc.

And the main part of the adventure was the jungle trek and the actual temple, the other stuff at the beginning (pickpocket, hiring the boat, border guards) was mainly just there to spice it up a little. The pickpocket sets things up for later. Hiring the boat allows the PCs a little social interaction, and lets them get a feel for the frontier. Likewise, the corrupt border guards and scrag are there to contrast with the easy voyage so far, a kind of "Hey, we aren't in the civilized lands anymore" wakeup call.

The last encounter was there with Mhaedhros because I mainly wanted to duplicate the kind of rival NPC that swoops in at the end after the PCs have done all the hard work, like in the beginning of Indiana Jones & The Raiders of the Lost Arc.

*Also, one of the reasons I used that last encounter was that I was toying with the idea (still might) of writing up Mhaedhros d'Deneith as a critical threat, since I had used him as either a bad guy or a somewhat helpful NPC in couple of my adventure ideas, including the one that made it past the Gatekeeper. Which is one of the reasons why he is supposed to bail on his crew and escape via etherealness at the end if the PCs are winning, he needs to live for another adventure.

2. This is pretty much the format of how I sent it in. I just copy & pasted it from a word document, so it lost the formatting (bold, italics, underlines, etc)

Part of my experimenting process with these first couple of queries was to find a format that I liked, and that hopefully the editors liked too.

I would be interested in seeing 'em, yeah. ;) I think there's usually something to learn from them.

I posted the two rejected queries: "Bandits of the Borghese Woods" & "Preliminary Research"

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And on a more positive note, James Sutter is apparently working a little late tonight, since I received an email around 6pm that my 3rd query (sent in on March 15th) has just made it past the Gatekeeper. :-)

Here is the 2nd adventure query that got rejected today:

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"Preliminary Research"

General Information: This Eberron mid-level adventure is designed for 4 6th level PCs.

Adventure Hooks: Famed explorer Elegost d’Orien of the Wayfinder Foundation approaches the PCs with a proposition. Elegost has recently translated a text describing the location of the fabled lost Temple of Mar’saval (Players Guide to Eberron. Pg. 128). Unfortunately, Elegost is tied up for the next 3 months teaching courses in Antiquity Studies at Morgrave University.

Perhaps Elegost knows the PCs from prior adventures, ties to House Orien or the Wayfinder Foundation. Maybe one or more of the PCs are in one of Elegost’s classes this semester, or is a fellow academic colleague. Or maybe Elegost has just heard of the PCs in the adventurer’s district of Clifftop, and he thinks they can do the job.

In any case, Elegost wants to engage the party to head out to Q’barra, follow the translated instructions and verify that the Lost Temple still stand, as well as retrieve some sample artifacts as evidence. Elegost needs the party to act as his agents in order to “discover” Mar’saval, so that he can be the first to publish a paper on it, with the PC’s getting partial credit as well.

Plot: The PCs leave their meeting at Elegost d’Orien at Morgrave University, with copies of the translated instructions, cash for expenses and tickets on an elemental galleon leaving for Q’barra on the morning tide. On the way out of the university district, a pickpocket targets one of the party. If successful, the instructions are gone. If caught, the pickpocket pleads for mercy and attempts to flee. If successfully intimidated or bribed, he reveals that he was told to specifically target anyone leaving Elegost’s office by a stocky man with a Karnathi accent.

The next morning the party is off to Q’barra and the journey passes uneventfully. Upon arriving at Newthrone, the party disembarks. Elegost gave them expense money and the name of a tavern in which to find a riverboat captain to hire. If the PCs aren’t arrogant or socially inept, they can hire a captain easily, otherwise they might insult someone and start a brawl.

Following the coastline of Q’barra, a New Galifar patrol boat pulls alongside and the patrol attempts to shakedown the adventurers for a hefty bribe. If the PC’s pay the bribe or successfully intimidate or bluff the patrol, they are allowed to go. Otherwise, it comes to a fight as the patrol attempts to arrest the “smugglers”. A Scrag also attacks the riverboat during the night sometime during the journey.

Upon reaching the northern coast and the Basura Swamp, the riverboat anchors and the PCs disembark. Trekking through the swamp and all the fun terrain that entails, the PCs soon discover that Q’barra is home to Horrid animals, as a pair of Horrid Apes attack.

Relatively soon after the Horrid Ape encounter, the party is approached by a hunting party of Lizardfolk and Carvers. The Lizardfolk attempt to parley and warn the PCs not to go further south, “Because to the south lies the Cursed Temple of Mar’saval, where the corrupted ones dwell.” This is an encounter that isn’t designed to become a fight, but instead to be handled with social skills.

Two days after leaving the riverboat, the party can detect something HUGE coming their way with a successful Spot or Listen check. (Think Jurassic Park, water trembling, etc). A Sabertooth Titan bursts out of the undergrowth, chasing down a fleeing Dire Ape for lunch. If the PCs are hiding, then they should be fine; otherwise the Sabertooth Titan turns to attack them instead. Note: If the PC’s attacked the Lizardfolk in the earlier encounter, the Sabertooth Titan will definitely attack them, having been sent by a Lizardfolk Druid in retaliation.

Finally, the PCs have made it to the Lost Temple of Mar’saval. Except for a single tower with a balcony, only the tips of the granite and brass minarets break the surface, as the rest of the temple is underwater in the middle of a small lake. The PCs can either cut down some trees to make crude rafts, or they can swim out. Either way, halfway across the lake, a Chuul strikes from ambush.

Once the PC’s have disposed of the Chuul and made it to the tower’s balcony, they can go inside. However, the corrupted Lizardfolk Cleric (Dragon Below) and Lizardfolk Hunters were probably alerted by the Chuul fight, and they fight to the death to drive off intruders.

After bypassing or disabling a compacting room trap in the stairwell (that makes it seem like the stairwell is throat that is swallowing), the PCs reach the lower levels of the tower. There before them is a small golden idol of a humanoid tiger upon an altar, surrounded by sacrifices and treasure gathered by the Lizardfolk. If the PC’s disturb the idol, then the altar rumbles and a volley of spears burst forth from a trap. At least one of the spears will “miss” and shatter a window, breaking the protective enchantment and allowing the lake water to rush into the room, as per a Flooding Room trap. This is the least of the party’s worries however, as disturbing the idol also freed the Zakya Rakshasa bound within.

Once the party makes it back to the coast with the idol and any other artifacts, they discover a large pirate ship looming over their riverboat. Mhaedhros d’Deneith and a troop of Emerald Claw soldiers followed the PCs to Q’barra from Sharn and are here to “liberate” whatever the PCs have discovered. If the PCs give up the idol, then Mhaedhros leaves after sinking their boat, leaving the PCs to trek back through the swamp to Newthrone. Or the PCs can fight, although Mhaedhros will flee via an Etherealness infusion (Greater Armor Enhancement) on his armor if the fight goes badly.

Now the party can return to Sharn and Elegost, via Newthrone and an elemental galleon, to be lauded by the adventuring community.

Major Foes:
• Zakya Rakshasa
• Sabertooth Titan (Tyrannosaur Rex)
• Mhaedhros d’Deneith (Human Artificer 5/Dragonmark Heir 1). On the surface he works for the Twelve’s Acquisitions directorate and House Deneith, covertly an operative for the Emerald Claw.

Summary of Rewards: Cash and Academic fame from Elegost’s paper and subsequent articles in the Korranberg Chronicle, definitely significant enough to get membership in the Wayfinder Foundation. Owed a favor by Elegost. The Emerald Claw will be looking for revenge, as will Mhaedhros if he survived.

Summary of Encounters:
1. Sharn: Pickpocket (EL 2)
2. Newthrone: Hire a boat. Social interaction, possible brawl. (EL 5)
3. New Galifar Navy between Newthrone and Adderport. (EL 6)
4. Coast: Riverboat attacked by Scrag. (EL 5)
5. Basura Swamp: 2 x Horrid Apes (EL 6)
6. Basura Swamp: 3 x Lizardfolk + 2 x Carvers (Deinoychus) (EL 6)
7. Basura Swamp: Sabertooth Titan (EL 8)
8. Mar’saval (Exterior): Chuul (EL 7)
9. Mar’saval (Interior): Lizardfolk Shaman + Hunters (EL 6)
10. Mar’saval (Interior): Compacting Room Trap (EL 6)
11. Mar’saval (Interior): Zakya Rakshasa + Flooding Room Trap (EL 9)
12. Coast: Mhaedhros d’Deneith + Emerald Claw soldiers (EL 7)

Estimate: 8000 words. 4 Maps, including regional map of Q’barra, the riverboat, and both exterior and interior of Mar’saval.

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Note: James wrote that he liked this one, but that it was too similar to something else in the works. So thats not bad, the idea didn't suck at least.

Well, I got the two rejection emails today on a pair of adventure queries...
anyways, I figured I'd post the queries here.

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"Bandits of the Borghese Woods"

General Information: This Eberron low-level adventure is designed for 4 3rd level PCs.

Adventure Hooks:
A. A scholar at Morgrave University has recently received word of the location of Castel Borghese, and he hires the PC’s to explore the ruins and clear out any dangers before he makes a decision whether or not to lead a student expedition there next semester.
B. PCs hired by the Mayor of Ringbriar to clear out the bandits. His guards are hard-pressed to patrol the local farms, and he wants the party to explore further and hunt down the bandits.
C. Tionne d’Jorasco is missing! Tionne resides in Ringbriar and often goes north into the Skyraker Forest to collect herbs for her healing potions. She is now over a week overdue, and House Jorasco wants her found and rescued if necessary. House Jorasco will pay a reward of course, but it might occur to the players that doing a favor to the House of Healing might be in their long-term best interest.
D. The PCs could simply be traveling the roads near Ringbriar or the Skyraker Forest, and be attacked by bandits, and then track them back into the Skyraker Forest.

Plot: There are bandits operating out of the Skyraker Forest, preying on the farms around the village of Ringbriar, as well as striking at travelers on the roads between Moonwatch and Galethspyre. The bandits are operating out of the ruins of Castel Borghese, a pre-Galifar castle located deep within the Skyraker Forest to the north of Ringbriar.

Following one of the Adventure Hooks, the party arrives in Ringbriar. Ringbriar will have all the standard features of a village of its size, in addition to the local Jorasco House of Healing (currently staffed by Tionne’s two subordinates, both Halfling Expert2). The Forester’s Rest is the only inn. Kurrik’s Sundries and Supplies is the only real shop in town.

With a Gather Information check, they can learn more about the raids (sidebar with 3 different levels of information). Also, if the party asks openly about the bandits, or stays in town for longer than a day, they will be approached by both House Jorasco representatives and/or the Mayor, both of which want to hire the party. (Adventure hooks B & C). The party may accept any of these offers, which will mean they have additional (albeit linked) objectives, and the opportunity to earn more rewards.

If the party asks Kurrik about the bandits, he’ll pass along a rumor that a Warforged was seen in the vicinity of the raids, and is a scout for the bandits. This is partially true, as a Warforged has been seen in the area, but he has nothing to do with the raids. Kurrik is trying to stir up the natural anti-Warforged prejudice in the town, and deflect attention away from himself (he secretly works as the inside man for the bandits). The PC’s might also hear this rumor during their Gather Information check.

Bolt is doing survey work for Morgrave University. He is the one who located Castel Borghese (Adventure Hook A). Bolt has seen the bandits, but has avoided them.

Once the PC’s have gathered some information, the cry will go out in town that smoke is on the horizon. The PC’s can head out with the town guards to find another farm burned and the farmers butchered. A search check will find multiple tracks leading away to the north.

Following along the tracks, the PC’s will encounter Bolt on the edge of the Skyraker Forest. He is initially unfriendly. If they talk to him and succeed in either a Diplomacy or Intimidate check, he will tell them the bandits are hiding out in Castel Borghese, and give directions. If the PC’s kill Bolt, they will find his notes and maps, including the above information.

Once the party is in the woods, they will encounter a pack of Horrid Wolves during their first night. The party can catch the fleeing bandits if they force-march.

After a few days travel in the woods, they will come to the ruins of Castel Borghese. The Castel is an old motte & bailey design, and the bandits have rigged it with traps (pit traps, falling timbers, etc), which the party will have to contend with while dealing with the bandits led by Duran and Torgun. Torgun flees into the submerged tunnels if the battle foes badly.

Once inside the ruins, the party will eventually discover a few reinforced doors that the bandits had locked and barred. These doors lead down into a section of the ruins that is partially submerged and houses a Horrid Huge Viper. Once past these obstacles, the party will come to a dry section that houses a few cells, including one holding Tionne d’Jorasco. If he was not slain earlier, Torgun will lock himself into one of the cells and pretend to be a prisoner.

Major Foes:
• Duran (Human Warrior 4) Ex-Brelish soldier turned bandit.
• Torgun (Human Cleric 3 Blood of Vol) Emerald Claw “advisor” to the bandits.
• Typical Bandit (Human Warrior 2) Approximately 12 altogether.
• Bolt (Warforged Ranger 3)

Summary of Rewards: The Mayor of Ringbriar can only offer 150 GP and the village’s gratitude for dealing with the bandits, although the party can certainly pick up more rewards from House Jorasco and Morgrave University if they pursued those Adventure Hooks. If Torgun survives, the party will also have earned the anger of the Order of the Emerald Claw.

Summary of Encounters:
1. Ringbriar: Social Interactions.
2. Edge of Skyraker Forest: Bolt (Warforged Ranger 3)
3. Skyraker Forest at Night: Horrid Wolves
4. Skyraker Forest: 4 x Human Warrior 2. (Optional)
5. Castel Borghese (Exterior): Pit traps (CR3) and sentries.
6. Castel Borghese (Interior): Duran + Torgun + surviving bandits.
7. Castel Borghese (Submerged): Horrid Huge Viper.

Estimate: 7000 words. 3 Maps, including a map of the Skyraker Forest and Ringbriar, the interior and exterior of Castel Borghese.

Well, I got my first two rejection emails today from James Sutter... the two queries were submitted on March 13.

Anyways, I still have two more in the process (1 from around March 17, and another from this last weekend)... and now that I've recieved feedback on the first two, I have a whole slew (well, 4 or 5 anyways) of queries that I have written, but that I hadn't submitted yet.

I'll post the two that were rejected on the Critique My Query thread later on tonight if anyone is interested.

Elan the Bard wrote:

I completely agree, Lord Eisen. James does have deep seated mental problems which, unfortunantly, we are forced to work with. However, next time he goes psycho, he's going to be forced out off the house...

Well, I have not much to add, but I would recommend not using real names if discussing things like these on public messageboards. It might might lead to ugly repercussions.

And, if someone has mental problems, it is NOT the job of a gaming group to help him there - this NEVER succeeds, it only leads to more trouble.
And pointing the knife at someone is something I would not tolerate even if its half or more in jest...

Stefan

True, but in this case I'm pretty sure the problem player in question would know who they were talking about.

How many 15 year old students in Australia play in a group that recently had a DM change due to the player in question physically abusing the former DM over an Imp dealing Dex damage? Or make a habit of wearing the faces of dead foes?

Recently, Dungeon did an issue with the Top 30 Modules of All Time. In that article, they also made a seperate list of the top 10 Dungeon adventures of all time. I'd love to see a HC of those 10 adventures compiled and updated to 3.5.

Clark

Which issue was that in? I don't remember that article, but I might of skipped it and gone right to the adventure I was running.

I´ve a cg elf in my campaign. We are currently running Mad God´s Key in Greyhawk. They have been fighting the Green Daggers, and when he downs a rogue he always CDG:s them on the next round. He has done that at least 3 times.

So, I´m hinting that he´s going cn, if he not considers his action - bring them to justice, etc.
What are your opinions?

Asmo

I'm assuming that when you say that he "downs a rogue" that the rogue in question in laying on the ground at negative HP?

If that is the case, I don't see anything wrong with any player, CG or otherwise, "finishing" a dying foe. Afterall, they were bleeding out anyways, and I doubt you'd force an alignment change or penalize a PC for just ignoring a dying foe and letting them die slowly from blood loss over a few rounds.

Also its been a while since I've seen the adventure in question, but the rogues are coming after the PCs? Or are the PCs seeking out the rogues?

The other thing to consider (playing devil's advocate) is that being old doesn't necessarily mean having more knowledge. Especially not knowledge that is either relevant or true.

In real life, I'm sure we all know seniors that we wouldn't exactly consider to be knowledgeable.

Just to toss an unorthodox spell out there, I'd have to say Enlarge.

Very few melee types don't benefit from the Strength and Reach bonuses, and the archer/caster types can use the warriors expanded size and reach to hide behind.

And if you cast it on a fighter designed already to use reach weapons, it gets nasty indeed at low levels.

This one is one of my favorite DND moments... way back in AD&D during the 80s.

Adventure I2 "Tomb of the Lizard King"

Basically, there is a Lizardman (they weren't called Lizardfolk until a more politically correct edition, lol) King who became a vampire through a badly worded wish... and now the PCs have to hunt him down.

Earlier in the adventure, my fighter had looted the alchemists lab in the complex, hoping to build some sort of incindary device with the backpack full of ingedients. I figured at worst I'd get some gold back in town for it, at best I'd get to blow up a door or something, since our Thief (again, not the politically correct edition yet) had died earlier in the complex.

We fight our way through and finally get to the Vampire Lizard King. Unknown to us, he actually had some wizard levels as well, and he opened the fight off by casting a wall of fire (circle form) around himself.

I looked around at the other players. By this point, we were in over our heads, we had expended too many resources getting to this point and lost a teammate, and now we find out that the BBEG can cast 4th level spells too! It was looking like a potential TPK...

So what did I do? Cried out a battle cry to St Cuthbert and charged right into the wall of fire and let the Vampire Lizardman King impale me with his trident as I tried to tackle him.

BOOM!

One big ass explosion later, I was a fine red mist in the air, and the world was minus one Vampire Lizard King with Wizard levels.

---
On a funny note, did the party use the last wish in the Ring of Wishes (in the loot) to raise me? Nope, the damm thief decided to use the wish to make it so that the ring only worked for him, in an attempt to screw the party out of the other two wishes. Of course, he hadn't listened too well during the initial part of the adventure, since the rest of us had been told about the initial two wishes of the ring that the Lizard King had used, so basically he used a Wish to make sure that no one else could use the shiny, now non-magical, ring.

That in and of itself was pretty funny too when the Thief's player found out.

...

Yes, I have to agree with this one. The adventure in Dungeon #1 involving Flame is #1 on my all time fav Dungeon list. Wait a lair! And the sequel wasn't too shaby either. I think I have the 3rd adventure too but didn't like it as much as the first 2.

...

I can still fondly remember a 14th level fighter being slain by the combination of a crystal bridge over a chasm, a necklace of missiles, and best of all, a kobold swinging ewok-style on a rope :-)

And the philosophical debate at the end! Do we take the giant diamond and try to sell it for the million GP it was worth? Or do we break it up into smaller, easily sold chunks but for less cash overall? But if we do either one, then the cool flying crystal citadel will crash into the lava and we don't get to keep it as a stronghold!

I think we spent more time debabting that dilemma in character than we did actually defeating Flame himself, lol

To get back to the secondary (IMHO anyways) issue of munchkin powergamers... well, I too started off (many years ago) as a power gamer back in the AD&D days.

My best advice to deal with powergamers is not to try and argue against their powergaming tendencies and min-maxed characters. Instead, focus on making them develop some backstory and personality for their character. If you want to have a character that is a multiclass human ranger2/barbarian1/fighter2/tempest5 dualwielding dealer of death... thats fine. Now you get to write up a character background and story that makes sense for why you character has so many classes and so little focus/staying power for something that he started. You don't want to put that much effort into your character's background and story? Ok, then maybe have a more simple character like a straight barbarian instead.

Use the DM option for prestige classes that they need to actually have a teacher and/or join the organization. You want to dip into 3 different PRCs? Okay, well you get to journey around and find 3 different teachers/organizations, and have them accept you as well. Then try to balance the demands of those 3 organizations/teachers.

And if they just want to have high stat characters (you mentioned just using a character yourself with straight 10s) thats fine. Just let them know that if they want high stat characters, you'll be adjusting the EL of the encounters as well to challenge them. And overall this will increase the lethality of the campaign, since you might have better physical stats as a fighter now, but the monsters have more HP, better armor class, deal more damage, have more special abilities, etc... and you can find the the range where having high stats is just a little more difficult than having "normal" stats and encountering traps and monsters of the normal EL for your level.

For example, I have one group that likes to have exceptionally high stats. We generally use something like a 44 pt buy (vs the 32 pt buy normally used for high stats) and in return, the party ends up in encounters that are roughly +2 to the EL they normally would of encountered, and thus have a higher mortality rate. Its a fine line, but it balances out in the end, with the players knowing they are trading the higher stats for more dangerous encounters.

1. I'd toss my vote in for the potential adventures to hopefully include at least 1 of each level, with a good mix of urban/wilderness, intrigue/dungeoncrawl, etc. I wouldn't go for a theme like all FR or GH, or all jungle-based or urban.

Or at least evenly divide the adventures up fairly equally into low/mid/high levels and include scaling sidebars.

2. How many adventures do we realistically think can fit into this compendium? I haven't seen the Dragon Compendium, so I'm not sure how big it is.

3. As for determining which adventures go in, besides the obvious leaving it to the very capable Dungeon staff, some or all of the slots could be picked by these message boards, in a player's choice vote, which could also be advertised in the magazine itself.

4. Lastly, I would restrict it to adventures from the pre-3.0/3.5 era. Anything that current is a little too new to go into a "classics" compendium IMHO. Or at least I would argue that newer adventures from the current era should only be included if they are markedly better than anything available from the older era. If it was a player poll, I'd weigh the votes in favor of the older adventures to reflect this.

The Styes is probably the only one I would vote for from recent years over some of the older classic adventures, simply because I don't recall any other adventure doing such a good job of the spooky, cthulu-esque horror feel. On a similar note, I think Chimes at Midnight might eventually be in second such compendium, but it is obviously far too new to be declared a classic...

Well, my usual solution to a problem player like this would be to kick them out with the blessing of the rest of the players, who probably are annoyed with him too, but you've already said that isn't really an option.

Letting someone else DM isn't really solving your problem, since you are still gaming with the jerk, and he probably will pull the same crap on the new DM.

Perhaps consider taking a "break" from Dnd due to school commitments, "out-growing" it. whatever excuse works. At least, don't play with anyone at your school, since that is the issue with this problem player. Join a play by mail, or a play online game... or try to find other gamers through local shops or the gamer classifieds section at wizards.com (do we have one of those sections here?)

Anyways, if the problem player can't play DND anymore because you and the rest of the group aren't playing, then hopefully he'll move on to something else, and you guys can re-start in a few months without him.

Of course, that might not work if your other players are good friends with this problem player, but that is another issue.

---
Or, with the consent of the other players, up the lethality of your campaign and kill him off... repeatedly. If he is constantly having to make up new characters, it might cease being fun for him. And if its a stream of fatalities and TPKs, then it won't look like you are "out to get him"

And once he gets bored of this and moves on to something else, you and the other players can start a sane campaign.

---
Or, since he is presumably 15, pull the parent card on him. Play DND at someone's house, and have a parent (hopefully his, but with this kind of mentality, that might not be an option) overhear, and either talk to him directly or talk to his parents about his issues.

Is there any chance some of these great old adventures could see reprinting? Perhaps a poll could be done in Dungeon to gather people favorite of all-time. I know there have been many polls online but it would have to include as many people who buy Dungeon. How about the best of the first 100 issues in a hard cover?

I would love to have James from #35.

If there is ever an opportunity to re-print (and revise to 3.5?) classic adventures from Dungeon, I'd have to cast a vote for at least one adventure involving Flame (? I think that was his name), the Red Dragon that was in a couple of the early adventures.

My favorite was from the issue with Flame holding a crystal on the cover of the magazine. The PCs got to adventure in a giant floating crystal held aloft by magic over a volcano! There were great traps, an iconic dragon, and best of all... suicide bomber kobolds armed with single-shot necklace of missiles!

Man, I loved that adventure when I first played through it. Now I have to go dig through my stuff in the basement and find that issue, lol

The way I do it is if there is any question at all I put a notation in. It couldn't hurt right? In the case of Lords of Madness James Jacobs' name is on the cover so one could assume he knows what you are talking about. I never abbreviate titles as it's just more work for the editor to decipher what is considered the "common abbreviation" and they are never to my knowledge abbreviated in current products released by Paizo.

My tsochar story was shot down a couple of months ago. I sincerely hope yours does better.

Good Luck,
GGG

Thanks for the reply. I guess Lords of Madness wasn't the best example, although it does have to get past James Sutter before James Jacobs gets a chance to read it...

Well, I've been working on this Tsochar story for the last few days, and I think its going to turn out well (and by well, I mean very spooky with a Cthulu feel and a nice scene of a tsochar bursting out a commoners chest), so regardless of whether or not it gets by the Gatekeeper, I think I'll run my party through it in the near future.

A quick question:
When writing a query, if you use information from a non-core (but still WotC) book, should you reference the source, or just assume that the Dungeon staff are as knowledgeable as you are in regards to DnD trivia?

ie. If my query includes references to Tsochar, should I note that they are found in Lords of Madness?

*Second Question: When making such a reference, is it okay to use the common abbreviations for the book?

ie. "ECS" = Eberron Campaign Setting,
"MoF" = Magic of Faerun
"LoM" = Lords of Madness

---
I'm assuming that the answer to the first question is yes, you should reference non-core material, I'm just a little unsure if I can get away with abbreviating the sourcebook's name or not.

Just to be clear, are we talking about the original (AD&D) Temple of Elemental Evil, part of the epic Greyhawk campaign arc of adventures that includes the Slave Lords, Against the Giants, etc? Or the relatively recent (3.0?3.5?) Return to Temple of Elemental Evil?

I love the original Temple, having played through it in several editions of DnD. Starting the party of as residents of Hommlet does have its advantages, which you have outlined above.

However, I do have another suggestion. Start the players off as returning residents of Hommlet, whose family (or families) moved away a decade ago, and have since returned to their home village. Think Braveheart, William Wallace goes away as a boy and comes back as a man, ready to kick some ass :-) The PCs leave Hommlet as boys, return as men (or 1st level adventures anyways) and find out that bandits are threatening their boyhood home. Boom, instant hook with some emotional ties if the PCs have done a proper job of writing backgrounds.

This way you avoid the cliche (although was it really a cliche when originally published?) of adventuring just because exp & loot (oops, I meant bandits) are in the Moathouse. And you also avoid the complication of the PCs have up to date info on every part and person of Hommlet, which afterall is a very small village, with all that implies.

Well, you probably should give the main villain(s) a bit of a boost, if for no other reason than the VoP Monk. I'm not argueing against allowing a monk to take VoP, but it does make him (her?) signifigantly more powerful than any other possible feat that could of been taken.

You said it yourself when describing the wizard as well, that it was a pretty potent combination of PRCs. And the cohort makes the group more powerful as well, because if nothing else the cohort will suck up a few hits, and a well designed cohort can do a lot more than that.

If the PCs are tougher than normal for their level, than you should adjust the difficulty of the adventure (or specific encounters) accordingly. So yeah, I'd toss in a few more goons/sidekicks for the single villain encounters, to ensure that the party has a real fight on their hands, not a single round knockout.

I'll through my vote behind keeping the detailed conversion notes.

Its one thing to convert a Dungeon adventure or two into your current campaign setting of choice, but it becomes a little more time consuming when it is converting an entire campaigns worth of NPCs, locations, etc

Talion09 wrote:

1. For Critical Threats, what method is considered acceptable to determine attributes? 28 point buy? Elite Array?

The general rule of thumb for Dungeon is, if it has PC class levels, it gets the elite array. If it has only NPC class levels, it gets the standard array. None of that is set in stone, but it's a good guideline.

Talion09 wrote:

2. Another Critical Threat question: Is it acceptable to include a short "Scaling this Threat" paragraph or sidebar about how the threat would look at higher and lower levels than it is presented? This is something I haven't seen in the Critical Threat articles I've looked at, but it appeals to me as a DM, since it makes incorporating the Critical Threat easier.

ie. The threat is presented at 12th level, and the "Scaling this Threat" paragraph details what his level progression (and feats) would be at 6th & 18th

You can include it if you want, but frankly, I doubt you'll have the space. We can't print a critical threat that has more than about 1,300 words, and that's usually what it takes to fill out the format.

Thanks for the quick reply.

I like the idea of having a scaling section in a critical threat, since it does make it easier to incorporate into a campaign, but I figured that it would be hard to fit into the word count... but I'll try for my query

The Finn wrote:

Since this is the query thread I thought I would ask my question here. For Campaign Workbook submissions, is it acceptable to put the entire submission in the body of the email, and not on an attached document? I would attach the signed disclosure form, but the actual submission would be right in the email. Is this cool?

Not to be difficult, but I'm going to say "no" to this one. Putting the query in the email itself makes it slightly (but significantly) annoying to print/file/etc. If you have the capability of writing it up in Word or some basic program like Rich Text - which I believe almost every operating system comes with these days - then we'd prefer attached in that format. If for some reason you DON'T have access to a word processing program, go ahead and put it in the body of the email, but I highly recommend you go out and purchase one ASAP. Remember, queries in an email body are questionable - manuscripts submitted that way are flat-out unacceptable. We simply don't have the time to deal with all the formatting issues it brings up.

Anyhow, hope that clears things up, and good luck!

-James

Well, I was going to start a new thread, but since James Sutter answered this campaign workbook question...

1. For Critical Threats, what method is considered acceptable to determine attributes? 28 point buy? Elite Array?

2. Another Critical Threat question: Is it acceptable to include a short "Scaling this Threat" paragraph or sidebar about how the threat would look at higher and lower levels than it is presented? This is something I haven't seen in the Critical Threat articles I've looked at, but it appeals to me as a DM, since it makes incorporating the Critical Threat easier.

ie. The threat is presented at 12th level, and the "Scaling this Threat" paragraph details what his level progression (and feats) would be at 6th & 18th

MatthewJHanson wrote:

baudot wrote:

More importantly, what's a level 3 edit? How does it differ from a level 4 edit, other than by one hit die?

At very least, the good save should go up, and it will get a stat increase.

well, it would take a long time to explain; put very simply; a level one edit is grammar and sentence structure; a level two paragraph structure and inquiry word hoard, verb use, checking redundancy or dead wood, word use and communication ease with audience; level 3 is orientation of a particular script; researching data contained therein for accuracy; are the paragraphs in the write order;tone and inflection, is the theme of the article presented well and in a flowing manner; how does the eye track over the page; and a whole lot of other stuff. Level 4 is a complete inquiry into the whole document layout and presentation as well as a lot of other stuff; best to read your style manual instead of putting it on your head. If you want to know all the details of editing, I suggest you take some advanced English courses in editing. For example, neither Strunk and White or the Chicago Manual of Style tell you the 12 basic sentence structures; what they are; and there strength and weaknesses.

After reading the current dragon magazine with and editorial eye; I found a great many errors that should have been addressed and corrected, enough that I think that the editorial response to the person who started this tread should have been kinder in tone and more encouraging.

hmm... something about glass houses comes to mind, lol

Well, as much as I like the opportunity to win free stuff, I'd take the msg boards over contests any day. And when you think about it, the submission process is almost like a monthly contest, albeit the entry form is a little more complex and time consuming....

We get about 60 a month, on average. Since there's essentially 2 open adventure slots per issue (the Adventure Path is 100% solicited by us), that means that we only publish 3% of the submissions we recieve. It's pretty stiff competition.

North James (Sutter) would be able to speak to the level spreads, but as a general rule we get WAY more mid-level adventures than anything else, and WAY too few low-level adventures. Also, one thing we've noticed we're not getting a lot of lately is Forgotten Realms adventures.

Thanks for the info. I realize that it is stiff odds to get into Dungeon, but I was thinking that you were getting more like 100-120 queries a month, so only 60 a month sounds a lot better :-)

I've got a couple of adventure queries that I am writing up that fall right on the cusp of low/mid level.... they could easily be 4th, 5th or 6th level adventures without changing the story at all, and I wasn't sure which way to go. But now I'll write them up as low-level adventures, since that is apparently the section that is hurting for submissions.... Of course, they are generic/Eberron adventures, but maybe I'll dig out my FR notebooks and see what low-level FR adventures I can use to maximize my chances on the next submission, lol

Just out of curiosity, how many adventure queries/campaign workbook articles do you submit per month?

And if James Sutter or another editor is reading this, how many adventure queries do you get per month on average? And lately, are they evenly distributed between low/mid/high level ideas?

Talion09 wrote:

Ok, does anyone know what the current average wait time is to hear back about a query or campaign workbook submission?

I submitted my first two on March 13, and I'm not holding my breath or anything, but I am wondering when I should reasonably expect a response back...

Talion09-

Wait for campaign workbooks varies radically. I have two critical threats (these are in the same category) that I submitted in January and February of 2005, over a year ago, that I haven't heard anything on (except that they'd received them).

Several that I've submitted since have already been through the full process and been published in the magazine.

As for queries... if it's an immediate no (and don't feel bad about this, as many of the published authors here have it happen to us all too frequently... the gray render can be cruel to vulnerable queries with too few ranks in Tumble) then you should hear fairly quickly, within a month or so. Otherwise you must wait for the submissions meeting, where the few greenlights will be issued. Even then the wait can get fairly long... I've waited as long as three months after a submissions meeting to receive my rejections.

Forget the ones you've already submitted... focus on writing more - the trick is to constantly have something awaiting the editors' approval... it's a useful cushion against the gut wrenching pain of the rejections.

- Ashavan

Thanks for the quick response (and thanks to Mr Sutter as well for the previous answer)

Yep, I'll have a ton of queries heading in over the next few weeks for adventures and the odd critical threat.

My wife got a little fed up and sarcastically remarked that I should try to get published, since I spend so much time flipping through game books, Dungeon, Dragon, writing up characters I know I won't actually have the chance to play, creating adventures even though I'm not currently DM'ing, etc (you know, the usual for an addicted gamer) plus all the actual time spent gaming.

And since I was currently reading Dungeon 133 when she made this comment, I immediately thought about Dungeon, logged on to the website and downloaded the submission guidelines... and now I'm happily combing through my piles of accumulated DM notebooks to cull out the best ideas for queries.

Note: Although her plan may actually backfire, since now I have another message board to post on, as opposed to the occasional lurking I would do on here before.

Uri Kurlianchik wrote:

Is the address dungeon@paizo.com still oporational or should all submission related mail be now sent to the gatekeeper?

That address is still operational, but everything submission related gets forwarded on to Gatekeeper anyway, so you might as well send it there yourself and get in the queue sooner. Requested manuscripts and other non-query mail goes to dungeon@paizo.com or specific editors. Thanks!

And this address would be... gatekeeper@paizo.com? I sent my queries earlier this week to the dungeon@paizo.com address, should I resend them to the new address, or does it matter?

And what should we put in the subject line of a query email? I was just putting "Adventure Query", but should I of put the working title of the adventure in the subject line as well?

*shrug* I don't even notice 'em, or the other ads, to be honest.

Same for me. I understand why Dungeon (or other mags) have ads... I just skip by them unless its something I actually want to read... just like I skip past the myriad newspaper articles that doen't intrigue me, etc

Here is a bit of perspective that might be comforting. My name is Clark Peterson. I own Necromancer Games. I am friends with Mona. I publish adventures for a living. My industry writing credits in the last number of years could at least be considered not too shaby. I submitted a couple queries two weeks ago and havent heard back. Mona put me on hold: "dude, I'll get to that stuff you sent in a couple weeks." So dont get too bummed when it takes them a bit to get back to you--they even stonewall their friends. :) [sorry EM, I couldnt resist]

Clark

Ok, does anyone know what the current average wait time is to hear back about a query or campaign workbook submission?

I submitted my first two on March 13, and I'm not holding my breath or anything, but I am wondering when I should reasonably expect a response back...

I don't know where you're going with handless paladins, but I get what you're saying about non-dungeon encounters.

What I have more difficulty grasping is how you go about writing an adventure based on such spread-out encounters. It's not like a dungeon where you number the rooms on a map and the adventure text is essentially a very detailed map key.

When I write non-dungeon based adventures, I usually work up a flowchart.

You know where the PCs start the adventure, and you know what they know at the beginning, so just logically branch out from there, thinking about you would do as a player in that situation. Be sure to give the PC's options to branch off, so it isn't just a railroad plot... or at least give them the illusion of choice.

Interconnect some of the branches unless you wanted them to be exclusive. ie. You can only do Event A or Event B, because they both occur at the same time.

You also know the endpoint you want as the climax for the adventure, so weave the branches of the flowchart back together near the end.

If it helps, take a look at an adventure that is a non-dungeon crawl, and try to chart everything together as if you were designing the adventure, and see how it looks. Chimes at Midnight by Nick Logos in the latest Dungeon is a good example of this. The party has several options at times, but it all comes back together for the critical encounters, regardless of how the PC's arrived there.

Or take a look at something like a Shadowrun adventure for ideas on how to flowchart like this if you play other systems.