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Red Reaver

Talcrion's page

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Well completely depends on how you want it to go.

So first thing to watch out for, players stopping him before he gets INTO the building, probably better if he has a solid head start, nothing stops an encounter if the players trip lock him before he even gets to where you planned the fight to take place.

Second thing. Should be a building that is already set to burn easily, perhaps a forge or warehouse, somewhere that burnable substances would cause the place to ignite quickly. Warehouse could work well in this case I think due to the fact that it could make the place big enough to be interesting.

Depending on what kind of hazards you want their could be burning sections on the ground, you could give them a chance to spread. Falling debris I'd give the building an initiative count and have it make random attack rolls to represent stuff falling, You could treat this either as a trap like roll, say all being done at +10 or treat it as a reflex save to get out of the way of the debris,

I think the idea of a changing battlefield to be great, flaming pillers falling, flameing debris blocking paths, floor boards collapsing into pits to the basement.

lots of fun to be had.


Aw yes, no , certainly no reason to bring up an edition war in the middle of a game session. Sounds like a solid waste of game time, nothing is going to be gained if someone is deemed "right" and everyone loses game time.


While I enjoyed some aspects of 4e I found building characters to be boring and there were many cases where the choice of abilities was obvious which one was the best of them, limiting replay for us.

I did really like the more tactical movement with a lot of push and pull like moves, felt a lot more tactical as one of the things I dislike about pathfinder is there is very little movement during the battles I find.

Though 4th edition was certainly simplified, that wasn't what I disliked about it, heck if forth edition had pathfinders adventure paths and felt as supported I think they would have done a lot better, but as it is the thought of going back to 4th edition seems like a pain in the ass.

EDIT: As a final note, to each their own, the things I dislike about it may be things that other people really do like, I could see why someone would prefer a streamlined character system to focus on other parts, it's just not for me. I harbour no ill will towards anyone who likes 4th edition.


the fact that he CAN hide it is what shows how good a rogue he is.... or he just uses "masterwork hiding tools" in the form of a jar of vasaline.


Sounds like a rather weak use to me, I'd allow it.


Ignore me lol replying to things not directed at me.


Cleaving finish isn't an AoO however , it's just a bonus attack, I don't see why you would be unable to switch your weapon to one hand to punch


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holy cow, golfbagging, what a silly term, Or you could just NOT haul around a weapon for every job. I've never seen my players come up with such a silly idea. yes lets buy 8 various high cost weapons to save 10-20 points of damage a round.

Am I the only one who realizes just how crazy that sounds?

maybe you research before you leave the city and just deal with it if you run into a creature you aren't perfect against.

It's ok to fight something that you aren't perfectly prepared against.

If you can't do direct damage, find another way to help, perhaps positioning or aid another bonus's, you have options other than hoping to win the lottery, jeez

EDIT: may have ranted a bit here, but this is a pet peeve of mine, since the old days where I had fighters that would sit in a battlefield sulking because they only have a sword and it's not fair they get attacked by flying creatures.


PatientWolf wrote:
Talcrion wrote:
We get it , you both think you are right and the other is wrong and refuse to change your stance. If you aren't going to shut up about it could you at least try to keep it to one thread?

If this is directed at me. I didn't start this thread and I had not been active in the other thread in a while. Another thread popped up on the topic so I responded.

Again if you don't like the topic of a thread then don't read it. Don't come onto the thread and whine about its existence or the fact that people continue to argue their points. No one is forcing you to read it.

It wasn't directed at you, And spamming topics is against forum rules, And the hypocrisy of your statement amuses me greatly. Good day.


True, I was a little overly aggressive in my tone there, I apologize. The base argument boils down to if MWF replaces TWF before you take the feat. Personally I think it does, but I also don't see any reason why it should matter one way or the other so who cares.

EDIT: cept the original issue with mr 4 arm race in PFS, which is there own fault for digging that hole without addressing it properly, Faq and move on from this circle.

EDIT AGAIN: I r spell good.


We get it , you both think you are right and the other is wrong and refuse to change your stance. If you aren't going to shut up about it could you at least try to keep it to one thread?


Just takes an elaborate setup of a team of full fighters, all chain shieldbashing the guy in circles around the team high dex barb ^_^


I wouldn't say so myself, no more than getting stabbed in the face with a sword is..... , I've never seen anything stating that it is a death effect. But lets see if anyone corrects me ^_^.


N N 959 wrote:
Talcrion wrote:
not sure what all the arguments are about, it's clearly been pointed out that you have one Primary hand and one offhand, and that your hands have nothing to do with your arms, granting an extra arm does not grant an extra hand.
That's actually incorrect. Granting another arm does grant another hand. Vestigial Arms is an exception to this rule.

Aw Apparently I'm harsher on it then it's supposed to be, not that the situation has ever come up before in my group.

EDIT: wait a second... so you're saying that if I play a four arm race, I can hold a greatsword, and be allowed to shoulder check people with my spiked armour and headbutt people with my spiffy helment as long as I only used my two other hands to give people the deuce? lol hillarious


not sure what all the arguments are about, it's clearly been pointed out that you have one Primary hand and one offhand, and that your hands have nothing to do with your arms, granting an extra arm does not grant an extra hand.

Saying you want an extra attack because you have an extra arm is no different than you want one because of your spiffy hat. or spiffy armor, or spiffy boots.

All of which would LOGICALLY be able to be used with a greatsword in your hands, but CANNOT be.


There is a 50 gp thingy that you can eat that removes fatigue but kicks you in the junk later on. hmmm I'll look it up when I have some time .


Anyone ever seen any rules for such?

I always liked those little buggers.


you can't get your head around summoning creatures to do your bidding?

it is an extremely common trope used by villains the spectrum over.

I'd hardly ban it because it reminds you of a tv show


I fail to see the issue, though I haven't looked at it particularly closely.

nothing says the whip grows longer, it says it gains reach, I read this as, people who don't know how to use a whip, can not use the weapon well enough to take advantage of the extra reach it has.

picture the crack of the whip from someone who can use it and someone flopping it uselessly against your face in a gentle wet noodle like caress.

I guess I just don't understand where all the confusion is coming from.


Not everything needs to be a drag out brawl fight, in this case I'd look at a few things.

A: are they wrecking havoc, This is obviously a huge issue.

B: Chance of winning: you can't win this fight, but depending on the objective, you can make them lose.

If the issue is A, where they are slaughtering, you're going to need to find a way to distract them from the peasants while they have time to evac. The goal here is to do your best not to engage while doing what you can to distract/slow down the target.

If they are not just here for wholesale slaughter, then they have an objective. Perhaps you could tail them and be there at the critical moment to interrupt the objective.

We also don't know if these five are going to travel as a pack, or if they are going to split up.

Lots of interesting roleplaying and solutions rather than stab them in the face here.

Good luck.


I think he meant he'd be a monk if the barb build didn't work


Elbedor wrote:

Why AoO the air? Aren't there enough gnats, flies, or ants around that may be moving through your threatened space? Heck, even a blade of grass swaying in the wind or a mote of dust or dandelion seed blowing along...

Wait, does this mean as GM I can have the air AoO anyone that decides to move?

Naturally! and since the air clearly has a deceptively high Str based on it's ability to throw buildings onto witchs when it feels like it, they should learn to fear the wind!


well if you want to give up the eidolon and the summons and the evolution points then it's really not a summoner at all.

Lets try it this way. What parts of the summoner did you like that we could expand upon?


To clarify, you want to get rid of both the Eidolon and the summon monster abilities?


well.... what exactly did the air due to provoke this opportunity to attack? just existing does not provoke. I suppose a strange argument could try to be made that the wind blowing is provoking, but if I had to adlib the air's stats I think it would have a pretty high acrobatics check lol

EDIT ninja'd lol that's what I get for waiting so long to hit enter


I think an important thing to realize here is that characters aren't flat, they don't ALWAYS do one thing, a lawful good person does not go their entire life and never do anything selfish, or anything unlawful. it's unrealistic to expect every character to be a paragon of alignment accuracy.

So yes, your character may very well do a "non good" action if the situation calls for it, and he'd still be good after all.


Howdy folks,

I was surprized to see this thread back at the top, but I'm glad is spawned some useful discussion.

I've held off on breaking down perception completely, and instead have actively focused on simply using it less, and using other skills logically, no more perception to realize pesh addition when you don't even know what pesh is or how it effects the body.

So far it's been working well, I do think it is easy to fall into it as the "go to" skill for things.

As well I'll take a gander at this torchbearer game, sounds interesting, my group tends to be far more mechanics based so something that rely's more heavily on role playing might actually be interesting to try for a change on one of our off days.


If you consider using forcing the target to make a will save to avoid telling you the truth to be useless, then yes Tvarog


Well no you don't HAVE to, but arguing physics to punish your players and then disallowing physics when it gives them benefits makes you a bit of a jerk.


yeah but if you are going to rule that the flame does fire damage to everything around it you pretty much have to agree to allow the players to use the weapon as a touch attack to just deal the elemental damage as well.


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I don't see everyone is on his case about hogging the spotlight, The character from my reading of his description would basically just be a cohort going along with the team, and isn't hogging the spotlight until he switches sides to become an antagonist.

I don't see how this is any different or hogging any more spotlight than any other BBEG. Heck it's a typical trope to have the badguys lose their memory or for one reason or another work with the pc's at some point.


I like where your coming from, and the story sounds like it has promise, just avoid him being a DMPC and play him as such, just a cohort joining along with the characters. I know a lot of gm's avoid npc's joining the group but this guy certainly has a vested interest in going with them so it makes logical sense.

I think your plan will work just fine without bothering to tell them that you are considering him to be your character.


True, the save's aren't the problem, it's the opening barrage of dex damage that gets NO save that is the problem


Well it's not a poison so there's no specific rules regarding it simply raising the DC

Again, ability damage I've never seen a rule that says it doesn't stack, and there are plenty of things that do ability damage so I think it would have shown up somewhere by now.

and yes, it would seem like five hits you'd take 5d4 dex damage, and make a save to try and not take another 5d4.... every round.... for 11 rounds O.o scary.


no reason it couldn't , afaik there's no rules prevent damage from stacking


Never allow drow noble , other than that most of the races in the book are reasonable, not counting the ones in the race creation section 9not to say those are ALL unreasonable).

Really I wouldn't worry about it too much, unless there is a massive discrepancy. I mean heck human is 9 and dwarf is 11, but Human tends to be favored as better in most cases.

perhaps get an idea of what folks are curious about then you can look at them and see if there is really a need for adjustments in the first place.


as a general rule of thumb I consider anything that does automatic stat damage with no save to be pretty cheesy and would not allow it in my games.


This argument seems completely irrelevant. The end result is the same and if you have no kind of tricky gimmick you are pulling who really cares if it changes those three little letters on your skill sheet or not O.o.

Unless I'm missing your point here. I'm assuming you are thinking of trying to combine it with something that ssays like, All int skills get X, and something that is like, you can use your int in place of your cha. Do I get the X to my Cha skills?

I'd say no as it does not say you change it , simply that you can use it that way if you wish.


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Classic deal with the devil. you said they sacrificed their people. For every lifetime they live when it's time for them to pay their due, they trade one of the souls of their followers in their place, effectively holding all the souls hostage for virtual immortality. Till they are forced into acting because they are starting to run low on souls to trade.


Does it really matter if summons are locked out for 24 hours? I mean couldn't you just summon other ones? for example if I summon four Cyclops (evil evil creatures with their practical auto triple damage crit) and they get killed it's not like you can say those are the only four Cyclops.

lol ya can tell I dealt with a lot of Cyclops in the last session I played.


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oh I agree, players should certainly be saying what approach they are taking when doing the discussion. I'm just disagreeing with punishing Players for not having the same amount of ranks in a skill as the Characters they are portraying.


I know Blackblood, but the original post he says attacks like elemental spit would bypass ER, so would they bypass DR?

Well no they wouldn't bypass DR, but why would he think it would bypass ER O.o, or am I missing something about the ability.


Wait a second, why would that spit attack bypass ER?, It should be subject to whatever element resist the beam is.


Gnome Ogrekin With Obese and oversized Limbs holding oversized leg's of beef as clubs.... and an eyepatch! ...... I may just go make that the next pc I play lol.


ok there are two separate abilities here you are looking at

DR is for physical attacks, resistance is for elemental attacks.

So you wouldn't have DR10/Fire. But if you have 10 fire resist, it is simple, you just ignore the first 10 points of fire damage from every attack.

When DR is listed, such as DR10/Slashing, The number of the slash is what IGNORES the damage reduction, and everything else is reduced by the amount , (in this example, you ignore the first 10 damage of every physical hit that is NOT slashing)

EDIT: I'm not all knowing, perhaps I'm mistaken and there is a DR10/FIRE that I've just never seen, in that case it would be everything but fire is reduced, as you assumed.


If you could post your entire statblock we could look over and double check things, but they do tend to be on the strong side though a lot of errors do tend to be made because of their pretty wonky ruleset.

I'm always hesitant about summoners in my games, which is a shame because I absolutely love the concept myself.


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I gotta disagree Eleclipse, while I like what you are going for, you can't expect your players to have the kind of stats your characters are going to have, sure the PLAYER worded it badly, but his CHARACTER would have said it in a much more tactful and elegant manner.

Let's face it your players are average goons who probally have a 10 or 11 in charisma, expecting them to be able to sweet talk folks as if they had a 35 charisma is no more likely than the 10-11 int players being able to solve puzzles like a 35 int mage.

It's not a reasonable expectation of the player. In your example I'd suggest taking the basic jist of the message "you can trust us to safeguard it" and the natural 20 would be a reflection of how well the character actually sells the idea.


steve steve 983 wrote:

Mammoth Lord (Ex)

At 10th level, a mammoth rider is unaffected by the dazed, fatigued, shaken, sickened, staggered, and stunned conditions. If she succeeds at a Fortitude or Will save against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, she instead avoids the effect entirely. If a mammoth rider and her steed both successfully hit an opponent on the same initiative count, the foe must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC = 10 + 1/2 the steed's Hit Dice + the steed's Str modifier) or be stunned for 1 round. Whether or not the save is successful, an affected creature is immune to this ability for 24 hours thereafter.

Seems pretty cut and dry, not sure where the confusion lands, but lets go though it step by step

Ability 1: Immune to dazed, fatigued, shaken, sickened, staggered and stunned. (pretty straight forward there)

Ability 2: If a Fort or Will save has a reduced effect on a passed save, then instead you take suffer no effects at all (On a passed for or will save you suffer no effects)

Ability 3: If you both hit an enemy on the same time, they make a fort save or be stunned for 1 round, a person can only be hit by this ability once every 24 hours. (pretty straight forward here, if you both hit they make a save)

I can only imagine the issue must be with the second half, perhaps if you clarified which part you disagree on we could clarify further.


Avoiding any specific , but lets look at this from our world.... Ok so lets say everyone hates .... Canada, the odds of getting the entire rest of the world to work together on the same team against Canada are slim. Even with a common enemy, it's hard to get a solid alliance going, rallying the entire world against one country is virtually impossible. now picture that on a universal scale and it becomes even more crazy..... now picture it on a Multiversal scale and it's so unlikely it isn't even funny.

And everything else everyone mentioned.


Headfirst you pretty much nailed exactly what I was thinking with your number 1, Putting a lot more perceptiony things into other skill checks that would be suitable. I was reading over one of the AP's last night and I noticed a section to tell if someone has a Pesh addiction and theres options for the pc to make either a perception or a heal check.... and it got me thinking WHY is there a perception check, yes you can see it but you lack the medical knowledge to even know that what your looking at is an issue.

but I'm rambling now, your number 1 point there was exaclty what I was aiming for , splitting perception among the other skills so that your using relevant skills to notice things, rather than just a notice things skill itself

Though I'd like to get rid of it all together, perhaps making Perception a standard wisdom check rather than a skill check and things like notcing opposed stealth check could be handled by something else. like an appropriate knowledge skill or maybe your own stealth skill (takes a rat to catch a rat kind of idea).

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