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Lion Blade

Tacticslion's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. 5,883 posts (6,565 including aliases). 2 reviews. 3 lists. 1 wishlist. 21 aliases.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

:D


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If that's something, you guys would be blown away that I check mine something on the order of four times... per year.

(I check facebook slightly less often, though not much. When I'm reminded by my wife.)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Tacticslion wrote:
Seriously, though, she actually is. A lot. I still don't know how I managed to con her into marrying me. I guess she's a sucker for goofballs.
Slaunyeh wrote:
Maybe she's the one who used her Super Intelligence to con you into marrying her?

If she did, she didn't have to work so hard. I was totes ready for, like, a year before she said, 'yes'. :D

Okay, and to prove the point, she just pointed out that I didn't know her for a full year, before she said, 'yes'. See? See? She remembers! She even knows that it was about 11 months! I didn't know it was about 11 months! ... canny woman.

But more accurately, it was something akin to five actual months that I was ready to ask the woman to marry me, but waiting: I'd told her that I'd be waiting until she was ready to ask her, and she'd told me not to ask her, because she wasn't ready to say yes. She let me know, later, when she was. It was (and still is!) awesome.

Te'Shen wrote:
And that reminds me of the expression, "You chase them until they catch you."

Yep! Lovin' every minute of it! Yay for being caught!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Te'Shen wrote:

That's fair. I'm probably just romanticizing things. :)

It reminds me of something George Carlin said about perception/time. Most people want to look backward and say 'It was better when...' when in reality the past isn't really special because we romanticize things. Things weren't better or worse at any particular point, just crap with a different set of problems... paraphrased.

I romanticize things all the time.

Also, it seems, reference "old times being better" that there were fewer choices, and that can also lead to greater stress and less happiness. Interesting psychological studies on that. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Te'Shen wrote:
feytharn wrote:
lucky7 wrote:

"I am Ahsneeze, father of Achoo."

"Bless you."

Mind the big rocks!
Oh, Master* Robin! You lost your arms in the war!... but you grew a nice set of boobs.

*fixed

Gentlemen! Lend me your ears!
...
...
... that's dis-gust-ing.


Male Agathion (Leonal) Gestalt Monk-Paladin (with bardic performance!)
GM Rednal wrote:
You've earned 200 XP! Also, I'm keeping track of EXP gain on the campaign info tab, in case you'd like to have a reference.

Huzzah! Thanks! :D

I am seriously stumped by the netherbeast - whatever it was - that was so killer against Hexy. That's pretty epic. As you can see, I... might have gone overkill with the skellies. But, with foes she can't negotiate with, Hexy is probably just going to whack it until it goes down. She's still not quite gotten the whole, "Oh yeah, I'm mortal." thing down, yet. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Scavion wrote:
Giant Spiders. Nope nope nope nope. I mean seriously. A spider larger than you pinning you to the ground under it.

Scavion! I've got a present for you! It's not even exploding runes!

(You are guaranteed not to like this present.)

((I.e., "Yo dog, I heard you like spiders, so I put some spiders in your spiders."))


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

For all the oracle advice, one I didn't see (though I could easily have missed it): make a black-blood oracle, put it in DEX, and never take any ranks in DEX-related skills (unless you choose the Wisdom Made Flesh trait and make the one skill WIS-based instead).

This thread may help with eliminating DEX.

Now, that said, there are a lot of great options that have been mentioned here, so far, too, from CON for "Hard Mode" to STR for the caste-ness of it all.

Putting it into CON definitely lends itself toward seeking undeath; if you go with a caster, this could be a great reason to seek that route. It even (to some extent) fits the theme of the AP. I'd suggest heavily investing into Unguent of Timelessness and Embalming Fluids. Then acquire your Undeath of Choice (probably Juju Zpmbie?) and apply liberally to everything. Now you have a well-preserved corpse that will look great for a really long time! Maybe even a Gentle Repose effect (there is Lore, probably in Forgotten Realms, of liches that keep themselves looking healthy by the Gentle Repose spell! but it might prevent one from becoming an Undead? I don't recall right now, which is why I first recommended to Unguent)?

Of course, if you wanted to be silly/hardcore awesome about it, play a Very Old half-Orc, get a -3 to CON (and other physical scores, with a +2 to mental scores), buck for/try to survive long enough for a reincarnation or three (remember: they cost money, so save up!) to get to a young adult body of a nice race of some sort, and get those -3 back while maintaining your +2s. Then, once you're a young, good-looking stud, go for the undead route as outlined above. This is especially potent if you're a CHA-based caster.

Heck, before raising you, use a Sculpt Corpse spell to get the physique and appearance you've always wanted!

... or go with the fighter. That could be fun, too. But have a backup character, regardless. Not with the intent to play them, but so you don't have to grind the group to a halt if you die. You can even introduce him when you introduce your other character: a strong friend who wants to go on an adventure, but isn't quite ready to, just yet. He can later be captured, or, regretful, follow the party, so he arrives shortly after his friend dies, and he wants to complete his life's goal for him (or something: come up with a story that works for you and the GM).

But regardless, have fun, first with this character! and then, if it comes to it (but don't force it!) with another character.

Also, vet everything with your GM, first.

(Also, also, you can go the undead route, even as a martial: I'd still recommend the Juju Zombie in that case. Lich would be great, of course, but they're "always evil, while Juju zombies were introduced with a - admittedly reconnect out of existence - oracle archetype that can create non-evil undead: the Juju oracle. If your character is of Mwangi and Osirisni mixed heritage, this could be a great role-playing hook for a caster or a martial: seeking to become an eternal <guardian/warrior/crusader/devotee/student/magical force> that honors his ancestral ways.)

Enjoy, regardless!


Male Agathion (Leonal) Gestalt Monk-Paladin (with bardic performance!)

Hahah! No, I just meant Sevia/CommandoDude might be. It's titled "Raven Knight" and kind of looks like her avatar - at least a little (the cloak and clasps, implications of armor, and the black/white/gray (well, sepia-toned) all seem like something she might like for aesthetic reasons. That's all.


Male Agathion (Leonal) Gestalt Monk-Paladin (with bardic performance!)

Huzzah! Two people that can't hit each other! XD

Also, sorry I didn't post yesterday. I got busy and distracted.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

After looking it up, according to the Hellknight entry in the Faction Guide, at 45 TPA, if you're a Master of Blades or Paravicor; by spending 1 CPA, you gain the title of Lictor (or Vicarious if you're a caster).

.

.

This grants:
1) (1) base of operations (a Hellknight Citadel, in this case Castle Dunnarc)
<no specific listed levels>

2) (1) lictor (he's the main guy, the one that organizes all of this; there can be only one <in a given order at one time>)
<no specific listed levels>

3) (1) master of blades or paravicar
<no specific listed levels>

4) (5) paralictor
<no specific listed levels>

5) (5) maralictor
<usually considered a 5th level fighter>

6) (25-40) hellknights [5-8 for each paralictor]
(one per paralictor may be a signifier instead) <usually considered a 3rd level fighter>

7) (70-100) armigers [4-6 per maralictor, and 10-20 per paralictor]
<usually considered 2nd level fighters>

8) (35-70) support staff [5-10 non-combatants for each paralictor, for the master of blades, and for the lictor to handle the needs of their subordinates]
<usually considered 1st level commoners and experts>

(Total: 142-222)

The support staff is only granted to/acquired by those who are permanently assigned to a Citadel, so a highly mobile order, such as the Order of the Scales likely loses some of those; despite having a Citadel, I'd imagine the paralictors are rather on the move, and maybe even the master of blades or paravicar, leaving only the support staff for the lictor himself.

(Smallest New Total: 112-162)

Although the levels are indicated in the Faction Guide, in the book they refer to, all of the Hellknights except for the Paralictor that you come into contact with are fighters 5/hellknight 1s, with the following exceptions:
- the a ranger 7/hellknight 2
- the a sorcerer 11
- the a warrior 1 (the goblin Jinkoo, previously mentioned)

There are, in all, 38 hellknights noted as being around the city, not including the three unique ones listed above.

Earlier in the adventure, there were 22 armigers, six hellknights (left undefined in that adventure), and one signifier. The armigers were noted as being "warrior 1"; the hellknights were left undefined, and the signifier was a "cleric 1".

That should let you know that there is some variance in how the orders work and function: the above should just be taken as suggestions rather than hard rules for who's actually there.

The lack of a support staff (or making them all fighters or rangers) would, I think, greatly help your flavor. I would tend to suggest thinking of the smallest numbers on the variable ranges as benchmarks and leveling them up somewhat - your group are small, beleaguered, and active, meaning they level up faster (in theory). Switching fighters for paladins is likely a good idea, too.

Hope that helps!

EDIT: In case it wasn't clear, the above is for a newly minted Order, if desired. Thus, a more established order is likely different as well.

EDIT: If you're curious, that's an article about them. A good one. :D


Male Agathion (Leonal) Gestalt Monk-Paladin (with bardic performance!)

Saw this, and thought you may be interested.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Glad you like it! Feel free to claim it for your own games, if you like.

If they were a newer order, they were probably formed within the last 70-80 years. 4638 AR was when Thrune sponsored the formation of new Hellknight Orders, with the assistance of the (Lawful Good-leaning) Order of the Scourge (the oldest Order that has been continually active since it's first founding), near the end of the Chelish civil war.

There were a few older Orders that were organized around the defense of the Chelaxian borders that were disbanded (due to heresy and lack of discipline), before the foundation of new orders (many of which sought and gained re admittance into the new orders). They could look to the Order of the Scourge for inspiration, in that case: the 'Scourge declined Thrune's offer to be their personal guard to their face and, after narrowly not being executed for such an insult put their new base of operations right outside of Egorian, because they were hardcore enough to let Thrune know that the infernal house would be watched, and that the 'Scourge who helped put them there would not hesitate to leverage their might to remove them, if they believed that Thrune was causing more discord than it was solving.

Alternatively, if a paladin rose through the ranks of the 'Scourge, he could have been named a Lichtor of a new Order even more recently. That's certainly possible as well. I'll post details of what that looks like, if you want, later.

One error in the stats above: the Order of the Angel is found in the Spera, not the Dospera. Citadel Ghetto is in the Dospera, however.

I didn't note it here, but there are a total of 1,300-ish goblins in the two Orders. The 'Sewer has the largest at 800, but the 'Flame has a respectable 500 or so.

The 'Angel, by contrast, has only a couple of dozen to thirty (I'll have to check).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It's fascinating. While I certainly see the reason many think it cruel... I'm actually starting to wonder. I suspect it's a deeply mortal perception to suppose that we (as we are now) are the best expression of what we can be. But if not... there could be an ascendant revelation that's actually quite advanced in other religious practices and ideas: the elimination of self. The sublime freedom from our own failures. I have to think more about this, but it's been kicking around in my mind today.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It's just Torag. He's a grumpy sort. Iomedae actually highly respects her, and Erastil thinks they both should get a good man to help settle down with. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I kind of lie the concept. Hm. Now I'm tooling around with the idea that adamantine weapons are treated as auto-sunder attempts if within the armor's "window" of defense, as an optional variant rule in some games. Interesting.

(It would not target touch AC, however.)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hence my question.

I suppose the thing with giants is that they're human like, but yeah: it's odd.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

All I'm sayin' is that, of the two of us, I know which of us is the more intelligent one. Me, er, uh, I mean, my wife. Yes. That is who I mean.

Seriously, though, she actually is. A lot. I still don't know how I managed to con her into marrying me. I guess she's a sucker for goofballs.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Clue was absolutely amazing. I don't know of another film that did what it did with the endings... and I don't know if it's even possible to pull it off in the modern world (the Internet being what it is). Frankly, it's a bit of cinema history that's... really well done.

Also, hahahahah! "Slowly" he says!

(That said, in truth, I'm reasonably sure that there have always been great movies and terrible movies; the great ones tend to stick around while the terrible ones tend to be forgotten. Thus we have large volumes of great older films while being blitzkreig'd with modern movies of varying skilled craftsmanship. Thus we have a very inherently skewed view of movies: "older is good, newer is often crap" - it's a kind of confirmation bias. Like older tv shows.)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Huh. I thought he was that guy with gray hair going white on the sides? No?

Hm. I'll have to look.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The main difference is that one of those planes would absolutely insist that they be together, but leverage full advantage against the other.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That's... beautiful, Te'Shen.
EDIT: I loved that movie. Also Sword in the Stone, and Fox and the Hound.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So, uh, hey. You know, most of a year, that's kind like getting right back to you. Sort of. Sorry.

That said, here's how that worked out for us with the whole Goblin thing.

EDIT: I forgot to update you on Bluehood! Sorry!

Bluehood, in our games, turned out to be the highly bookish Lawful Good sister of Sascar Tilenernos, and a mild-mannered number-cruncher for the Tilernos household (taking care of the finances when father was away, and funneling Sascar's excesses into funding the Westcrown Shadow Hunters, leaving none the wiser).

Her classes? Aristocrat. 3rd Level. However, to her favor, she had a very high intelligence, and a minor artifact, the Blue Hood.

The Blue Hood is one of seven similar minor artifacts (called the Seven Veils of Dreams, or the Hooded Veils) that, when manifested, appear kind of like a Burka (though with some additions: tassels, bangles, patterns, and the like, as well as jewelry; and not specific to any gender) of different colors which allow the utilization of magical abilities at will.

When 'claimed' by a new owner, the Veil or Hood in question becomes a small ornate tattoo written in a pictrographic script on the neck (or similar location) of the one who successfully claimed it. They may then summon the Veil at any time, and may even "store" clothes they are currently wearing inside of it (so that when it vanishes, it leaves behind a specific set of clothes for that wearer).

The veils follow the ROYGBIV color scheme, are intimately tied to the concept of sin (or virtue) magic, and follow the following order of power:

Red (Wrath, Righteous Anger, Forgiveness, Patience)
Orange (Sloth, Well-Deserved Rest, Diligence, Zeal)
Yellow (Lust, Fertility, Chastity, Courage)
Green (Envy, Eager Striving, Charity, Kindness)
Blue (Greed, Wealth, Generosity, Thoughtfulness)
Indigo (Gluttony, Abundance, Temperance, Restraint)
Violet (Pride, Honest Pride, Humility, Honor)

With each Veil, there are a total of seven special minor artifact elixirs that have the ability to alter those that imbue them in specific ways, to make them ever-more-powerful creatures of the power of dreams. Once the elixir has been imbibed, however, it's gone for good. A given wearer can only ever access the pocket they are contained in once, after which it vanishes. After all seven are consumed, no one else can gain acquire an elixir from the Veil - they never replenish.

The Veils are sacred to Desna, Lissala, Pharasma, and Sivanah, although Lamashtu has claimed them as sacred to herself as well. It has an unknown connection to the Eldests Count Renalc, the Lantern King, Magdh, and Shyka; as well as the Peacock Spirit and a few unknown outer sphere powers (Empyreal Lords and Maharajas), though what connection, precisely, is incredibly vague at best and remains unknown.
--------------------------------------------

The veils and their effects:

--------------------------------------------
RED (sin of wrath/virtue of forgiveness): at will divination and illusion (1st level and lower) and evocation (cantrips only); 2nd lvl (5/day), 3rd lvl (4/day), 4th lvl (3/day), 5th lvl (2/day), 6th lvl (1/day); the bearer takes a -1 to all saves against abjuration and conjuration spells and effects. Virtue of Rule: Righteous Anger
Red Elixir
Effect (%)
* (01-10%) Cure Light Wounds
* (11-20%) Cure Moderate Wounds
* (21-30%) Cure Serious Wounds
* (31-40%) Template (advanced, dream, missing, or shadow; roll a d4 and choose)
* (41-50%) Reincarnate as a Rakshasa (young raktavarna; the base form is a young adult of your original kind)
* (51-60%) Reincarnate as an Doppleganger (the base form is a young adult of your original kind, 5% chance of being a greater doppleganger)
* (61-70%) Roll twice and take either result
* (71-80%) Roll three times and take any 1d2 results you choose (gestalting as necessary)
* (81-90%) Roll four times and take any 1d3 results you choose (gestalting as necessary)
* (91-00%) Take any 1d2 results you wish (gestalting as necessary)
--------------------------------------------
ORANGE (sin of sloth/virtue of diligence): at will divination and illusion (2nd level and lower) and conjuration (1st level only); 3rd lvl (5/day), 4th lvl (4/day), 5th lvl (3/day), 6th lvl (2/day), 7th lvl (1/day); the bearer takes a -2 to all saves against evocation and illusion spells and effects, and an imbiber takes an additional -1. Virtue of Rule: Well-Deserved Rest
Orange Elixir
(%) Effect
* (01-11%) Cure Moderate Wounds
* (12-22%) Cure Serious Wounds
* (23-33%) Template (advanced, dream, missing, or shadow; roll a d4 and choose)
* (34-44%) Reincarnate as a Rakshasa (raktavarna; the base form is a young adult of your original kind)
* (45-55%) Reincarnate as an Aboleth (young aboleth; the base form is a young adult of your original kind)
* (56-66%) Roll twice and take either result
* (67-77%) Roll three times and take any 1d2 results you choose (gestalting as necessary)
* (78-88%) Roll four times and take any 1d3 results you choose (gestalting as necessary)
* (89-90%) Take any 1d2 results you wish (gestalting as necessary)
--------------------------------------------
YELLOW (sin of lust/virtue of chastity): at will divination and illusion (3rd level and lower) and enchantment (2nd level only); 4th lvl (5/day), 5th lvl (4/day), 6th lvl (3/day), 7th lvl (2/day), 8th lvl (1/day); bearer takes a -3 to all saves against necromancy and transmutation spells and effects, and an imbiber takes an additional -2. Virtue of Rule: Fertility
Yellow Elixir
(%) Effect
* (01-12) Cure Serious Wounds
* (13-25) Template (advanced, dream, missing, or shadow; roll a d4 and choose)
* (26-38) Reincarnate as a Rakshasa (dandasuka; the base form is a young adult of your original kind)
* (39-51) Reincarnate as an 50% either Incubus or Succubus (base form is a young adult of your original kind)
* (52-63) Roll twice and take either result
* (64-75) Roll three times and take any 1d2 results you choose (gestalting as necessary)
* (76-87) Roll four times and take any 1d3 results you choose (gestalting as necessary)
* (88-00) Take any 1d2 results you wish (gestalting as necessary)
--------------------------------------------
GREEN (sin of envy/virtue of kindness): at will divination and illusion (4th level and lower) and abjuration (3rd level only); 5th lvl (5/day), 6th lvl (4/day), 7th lvl (3/day), 8th lvl (2/day), 9th lvl (1/day); bearer takes a -4 to all saves against evocation and necromancy spells and effects, and an imbiber takes an additional -3. Virtue of Rule: Eager Striving
Yellow Elixir
(%) Effect
* (01-14%) Template (advanced, dream, missing, or shadow; roll a d4 and choose)
* (15-28%) Reincarnate as a Rakshasa (marai; the base form is a young adult of your original kind)
* (29-42%) Reincarnate as an Aboleth (base form is a young adult of your original kind)
* (43-56%) Roll twice and take either result
* (57-69%) Roll three times and take any 1d2 results you choose (gestalting as necessary)
* (67-81%) Roll four times and take any 1d3 results you choose (gestalting as necessary)
* (82-95%) Take any 1d2 results you wish (gestalting as necessary)
* (96-00%) Take any 1d4 results you wish (gestalting as necessary)
--------------------------------------------
BLUE (sin of greed/virtue of generosity): at will divination and illusion (5th level and lower) and transmutation (4th level only); 6th lvl (5/day), 7th lvl (4/day), 8th lvl (3/day), 9th lvl (2/day); bearer takes a -5 to all saves against enchantment and illusion spells and effects , and an imbiber takes an additional -4. Virtue of Rule: Wealth
Blue Elixir
(%) Effect
* (01-13) Template (advanced, dream, missing, or shadow; roll a d4 and choose)
* (14-26) Reincarnate as a Rakshasa (common; the base form is a young adult of your original kind)
* (27-39) Reincarnate as a 50% either Succubus or Veiled Master (base form is a young adult of your original kind)
* (40-52) Roll twice and take either result
* (53-65) Roll three times and take any 1d2 results you choose (gestalting as necessary)
* (66-77) Roll four times and take any 1d3 results you choose (gestalting as necessary)
* (78-90) Take any 1d2 results you wish (gestalting as necessary)
* (91-00) Take any 1d4 results you wish (gestalting as necessary)
--------------------------------------------
INDIGO (sin of gluttony/virtue of temperance): at will divination and illusion (6th level and lower) and necromancy (5th level only); 7th lvl (5/day), 8th lvl (4/day), 9th lvl (3/day); bearer takes a -6 to all saves against abjuration and enchantment spells and effects , and an imbiber takes an additional -5. Virtue of Rule: Abundance
Indigo Elixir
(%) Effect
* (01-10) Template (advanced, dream, missing, or shadow; roll a d4 and choose)
* (11-20) Reincarnate as a Rakshasa (takata; the base form is a young adult of your original kind)
* (21-30) Reincarnate as an Veiled Master (base form is a young adult of your original kind)
* (31-40) Roll twice and take either result
* (41-50) Roll three times and take any 1d2 results you choose (gestalting as necessary)
* (51-60) Roll four times and take any 1d3 results you choose (gestalting as necessary)
* (61-70) Take any 1d2 results you wish (gestalting as necessary)
* (71-85) Take any 1d4 results you wish (gestalting as necessary)
* (86-00) Take any 1d6 results you wish (gestalting as necessary)
--------------------------------------------
VIOLET (sin of pride/virtue of humility): at will divination and illusion (7th level and lower); 8th lvl (5/day), 9th lvl (4/day); bearer takes a -7 to all saves conjuration and transmutation spells and effects , and an imbiber takes an additional -6. Virtue of Rule: Honest Pride.
Violet Elixir
(%) Effect
* (01-35) Template (advanced, dream, missing, or shadow; roll a d4 and choose up to that many, maximum of one each)
* (41-70) Reincarnate as a creature as noted below (base form is a young adult of your original kind)
- (%) Creature
- * (01-40) rakshasa (maharaja)
- * (46-80) veiled master-succubus gestalt
- * (81-00) both of the above (gestalt)
* (71-00) Reincarnate as a creature as noted above and gain one or more templates as noted above
--------------------------------------------

The veils are very powerful - perhaps a tad too much so. We didn't have any other than the Blue in this campaign, however the idea, lore, and even effects of them are actually quite fascinating to me, and I really enjoyed their use in this game.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Auren "Rin" Cloudstrider wrote:
Pathfinder has a mountain of defensive boons that become useless the moment a psionic attacker interacts with that character. it isn't just spell resistance, but really popular and common situational save boosters, abilities that counter specific schools of magic, and the like. usually the settings generally favor magic as the default, so the Psion will ignore the majority of enemy defenses.

... and will entirely lack those self-same defenses.

Which is something that we did run into. There was the psion-mage Cerebric Theurge (he ended up exclusively using his far-more-powerful magic side far more often, with his psionics just kind of as a 'oh, yeah, that's cool') and, when facing various divine casters, all the non-psionic prestiged folk were all like, "BOO-YA! Suck on my +5 saves v. that thing!" while he was like, "CRAP! My saves and hit points are strictly worse than a single-classed character! TO MY ARCANE SPELLS!" at which point he'd arcane-buff himself to the nines, and then pew-pew with some psionic blasty things. Either the battle would be a boss fight, close to being completed, or he'd get hammered down with magical effects that the others could simply shrug off or ignore.

The other psionic user that regularly ran into this problem (she was the only caster in the group) really had no recourse, and was just as festooned with typical magic items (and few psionic ones) as a normal adventurer.

The other two times, it was mostly the casters buffing against casters and the psionicists buffing against psionicists.

Time. I know I have it sometimes.

Oh, yeah, one more thing: if you go with the 'Different option, be aware that boosting a manifester's caster level does nothing. At all.

That took us a bit by surprise the first time.

EDIT: To be clear, this isn't because we thought caster level and manifester level were the same, but the little tricks that developed that could increase caster level simply didn't work - whether circle magic, ioun stones, or similar. It was obvious, but only after we started playing did we realize exactly how many options the casters had that the psionicists didn't. I can't comment on how easy that is in PF, but it's something to be aware of.

(Also, I didn't mention, and will continue to abstain from describing in detail, our experience with the original 3.0 psionic system. It... it was painful. Imagine poison used in ever combat - every combat - that you had rock/papers/scissors chance... only much larger... of nearly auto-failing your save against. Or the other guy was stunned. Worst. Combats. Ever.)

Worst. Combats. Ever.:

*after combat*

- "Whew, well we took down that CR 3 monster like a boss! I love being fifth level! How is everyone?"

- "Well you guys were all stunned for the first three rounds, so Yamma and I did all the work, but now we've got some pretty bad STR-damage, and STR, as you know, is my dumpstat and Yamma's casting stat, so we're about half a combat away from being unconscious or no casting power and thus generating a TPK in the first three rounds... again... from when you're stunned. To the sleep-mobile (aka the 'town inn') and hope that we don't have any more random encounters along the way!"

- "Man, being fifth level sucks. Okay, guys, maybe we can get all the way to the dungeon tomorrow. We'll have to be extra-sure not to get into random encounters tomorrow (or at least not a random encounter with <insert word here> psionic beasty)!"

It was Id Insinuation, by the way (by a temporal filcher).It was always Id Insinuation.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The citation I can give you is that, in every spin-off title and book and piece of lore, most outsiders are spun as immortal. I believe (though don't currently have access to, so I can't be sure) that it even explains this very thing in Council of Thieves fluff somewhere. Certainly the fact that since there are canonical outsiders in APs that are tens of millennia old lends credence to the interpretation. In Serpents's Skull, Council of Thieves, and Legacy of Fire, you're presented with creatures that have histories stretching back to ages before Earthfall. These are otherwise relatively standard outsiders: celestials, fiends, and genies.

It is something that is presumed in the milieu. Hence, asking for citation can seem like asking for citation when people say, "The Sky is blue!" which, you know, is hypothetically arguable (blah, blah, blah, absorbs/refracts/etc., blah), but is, for all practical purposes, self-evident: there is no reason to insist the sky is anything other than blue, as, to our senses, when we look at it, we see blue.

Though I agree, it'd be nice to see that set down in the rules because, for now, there's no explicit rules note that I'm aware of. Also, due to a specific kind of water fey, I'm not sure fey are immortal either. ("Lifespans measured in centuries": how you vex me!)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Aleron wrote:
...I thought it was 'Till death do us part'?

Depends on the vows, but for the most part, that's a pretty reasonable one.

Also, Erastil would be all about keeping married folk (and entire families!) together, should they so desire. That's why his region is one without major crusading groups, all pastoral-like and peaceful.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Point in fact, the reason the Order of the Sewer is so important is because it represents a fundamental shift for a truly massive goblin culture. They have become lawful good, and are using their own traditional weaknesses and failures as a strength for the purpose of strengthening and reinforcing civilization. That changes everything.

Goblins bringing order from chaos for the good of all. Goblins teaching goblins how to be heroes. Goblins having a civilization that builds instead of destroys. (It's especially poignant, as part of the Angelous's portfolio is repurposing: especially of people, but it is reflected in the goblins here in both that way, as they're still goblins, just reformed, and in it's more normal concept, as they repurpose garbage and waste constantly).

Also, if you're curious, Citadel Ghetto is the name of a large region of the Dospera (the region of the city that had been abandoned and was now illegal) that was collapsed (sort of on accident, sort of over time) that, after making an agreement with Whitechin (a villain), they used a lyre of building to construct an enormous region out of all the collapsed buildings, refuse, and other materials, creating a walled city to hold the goblins (there were few doors, most of those were to the sewer, and all of which were locked from the outside). Huge letters were crafted indelibly in the stone outer walls: "HERE BE GOBLINS, ALL OTHERS STAY OUT; NO HORSES OR DOGS, EITHER!"

Hence, it became an enormous fortress from garbage, as well as a ghetto for goblin kind. Later, when Whitechin sought to betray them, they specifically sought out (by divination), "the most loyal goblin, ever" who, as it turns out, is Jinkoo, a goblin that lived under the Tanarick House (a Hellknight building for local operations away from Citadel Ravid), whom they'd accidentally run into once before. They'd seen him defeating some goblins who we're attacking some young Hellknights, and actually bothered to help, despite the fact that those same Hellknights were attempting to arrest them. (They subsequently informed Jinkoo that they were "entirely allowed to be down here" - neglecting to tell him by whom they are permitted - and convinced him to help his Hellknight allies, unconscious and bleeding as they were, to get to safety, after healing the little guy.)

Hence later choosing him to replace Whitechin.

Also, I really like the Order of the Scales. Consider them a part of my world-canon.

In their ancient history, you could have them be 'descended' from one of Ruel's original cadre who worshipped those gods, but later left the first core of Hellknights with a few apprentices to create the Order of the Scales. They'd have an ancient pedigree, in that case, and be highly respected (though they would have had to agree that supporting Thrune was the only way to end the horrible civil war at some point in their past, or been out of Cheliax during that time). If they are more recently formed, then they likely would have done so when Thrune gave a mandate that more orders be formed a couple of decades ago.

Hope that helps!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Tacticslion wrote:
Also, I'll need to mention my newest Hellknight Order at some point: the Order of the Sewer. But not now.

The poorly-explained entry for the three Hellknight Orders.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Okay, so it took some editing.

Well, first, it took some finding.

For the record, I use two things for these orders that aren't found int the typical Order stat-blocks (though I quasi-house-rule similar things for those orders as well): Significant Traits and Significant Spells.

Significant Traits are traits that a hellknight who is part of that order can take, regardless of the normal limitations on taking traits, so long as they can take a trait. For example, although advantageous distraction is a racial trait, a creature (whether or not they are a goblin) who is part of the Order of the Sewer may take that trait, so long as they can take a trait - even if they have another racial trait.

Significant Spells are spells that appear on the spell-list of creatures that follow the hellknight order. Thus, it doesn't matter what class you are, you have access to the spell in question. If the spell allows a saving throw and is not normally on your class list, it's equal to the lowest spell-level on another class' list for your class. If the spell not allow a saving throw and is not on your class list, it is instead equal to the highest. Otherwise, it appears as normal for your class.

---------------------------------------------

Order of the Sewer
(Hellknight Order)
"Refuse must be properly channeled or properly repurposed."
Citadel Ghetto in Westcrown's Dospera
Leaders Lichtor-King Jinkoo, Master of Blades Crommat, Paravicar Bugbutt
Symbol A sewage grate
Armor A smooth rounded helm with wide "wings" (for goblin ears), and special piecemeal hellknight armor (stone lamellar cuirass, steel lamellar thigh guards and leggings made of metal reinforced with leather and cloth, and arm pieces constructed of horn plates laced together in parallel rows and reinforced with leather)
Weapon gauntlet (spiked or otherwise) or whip
Reckoning taking a gauntleted fist to the face, the gut, or the leg

Significant Spell: blot (used on heretical tomes), limp lash

Significant Traits: advantageous distraction, blade of mercy, carefully hidden, charming, dog-sniff-hate, hellknight ancestry, iron liver, resilient, purity of faith

The Order of the Sewer is a Hellknight order founded in 4709 AR by the Goblin Jinkoo (previously a "member" of the Order of the Rack), after a more or less accidental suggestion by one of the heroic Children of Westcrown to "get them organized and disciplined".

The Order of the Sewer is the first predominantly goblin Hellknight order, and the first to throw their lot in with the rising power of the Children of Westcrown. Though unruly for a Hellknight order, the goblins quickly took to the idea of blotting out and destroying evil written things, and, with the heroes' help, managed to settle down, become civilized, and actually begin functioning as a genuine Order, much to the chagrin of most people.

Their primary duty is to seek out criminal activity below the surface of the city and eliminate it, especially seditious ("seducing?" "decisive?" "delicious!") groups, and especially those that implement the use of the horrible thing: writing. *Shudder*

They also work tirelessly to bring order to the sewers of Westcrown, and to keep those passages safe, thoroughly maintained, and very well-marked, making travel and transportation by many of those locales very convenient... for those who know how to read the unwritten signs. They hunt down any monsters and forcefully recruit and either convert or kill (by accident) any goblins that seek to move into Westcrown's sewer system. Dogs and horses they capture (if possible) to submit them to "processing" (which they generally erroneously believe to be some sort of horrible destruction) by the ones they organized under in the first place: the Children of Westcrown.

Lichtor-King Jinkoo has successfully created a variant of the Measure in pictographic form integrated into every surface of Citadel Ghetto, and the gist of the Chain in pictographic chains embedded into the floor of his throne room and the throne itself.

Lictor-King Jinkoo is in a unique position of being both king of goblinkind (or at least those that live under him) as well as being a Lictor. While most other Hellknights find this dubious at best, his unique dual-position has enabled him to bring order to an otherwise violent and crazed people, visibly demonstrating the victory of civilization in the face of savagery in a traditionally destructive race, and has forced them to question their typical insistence of forgoing all other duties and allegiances in becoming a Hellknight.

Lictor-King Jinkoo holds religious devotions to "the Angel" daily, both privately and in public, and quietly loves her thoroughly.

---------------------------------------------

Order of the Flames
(Hellknight Order)
"When chaos rises, burn it down."
Citadel Ghetto in Westcrown's Dospera/The Maggot Tree
Leaders Vicarious Flemenka, Master of Blades Pee-yew-wee, Paravicar Umsnot
Symbol A fire
Armor A helm burning with continual flame, red-stone lamellar cuirass, reinforced copper lamellar thigh guards and leggings made of metal reinforced with orange leather and yellow cloth, and arm pieces constructed of orange-and-red stained horn plates laced together in parallel rows and reinforced with red leather
Weapon fire (of any kind) [they make excessive use of the firebrand and protection from energy spells] or a bladed scarf
Reckoning any one to four of the following spells: blistering invective (the most common), burning disarm, burning hands, fire sneeze, fire of judgment, flame blade, flaming sphere, heat metal, hellfire ray, produce flame, or pyrotechnics

Significant Spell: blistering invective, heat metal, and fire sneeze; continual flame; and firebrand and protection from energy

Significant Traits: burnished skin, flame touched, focused burn, hellknight ancestry

The Order of the Flame is (once again) relatively unique within the broader sprectra of both Hellknight orders and goblinkind in general. Made up of almost exclusively spellcasters (similar to the Order of the Gate) and almost exclusively goblins (similar to the Order of the Sewer) this order follows the creed that controlled fire is the best solution to chaos. A splinter group from the Order of the Sewer who disagreed with King Jinkoo's insistence that "burning it wasn't the answer" they (in a surprisingly orderly fashion) organized themselves, took over a wing of Citadel Ghetto, and eventually surrounded the Maggot Tree in order to allow their leader, Vicarious Flemenka, to seek the Well of Ether as Jinkoo had before her.

They have camped out ever since, periodically having some groups returning to Citadel Ghetto for supplies, waiting for permission to lawfully enter the Maggot Tree and drink from the Well of Ether. During their sojourn, they have taken it upon themselves to hunt down and acquire more of the forest goblins, either training them to join the Order of the Flame, or transferring them to the Order of the Sewer, whichever Vicarious Flemenka decides best (those deemed to go to the Order of the Sewer may be vetoed by Lictor-King Jinkoo, however he has yet to actually do so); they also capture all other sentient living creatures and tend to process them for imprisonment by the official Wiscrani government.

With the Order of the Flame's influence, the Hagswood has successfully become a phenomenally safer place, and accurate maps have been crafted. There has even been substantial recruitment of barghests as well.

The Order of the Flame actually has good relationships with the fey of the forest, bizarrely enough, having come to terms with them under some action or another by way of Jinkoo. They worship "the Angel" as Jinkoo does.

---------------------------------------------

Order of the Angel
(Hellknight Order)
"Within Her desire, order flourishes; by Her Passion, chaos ends."
Tanarick House in Westcrown's Dospera
Leaders Lichtor Gonville Chard, Master of Blades Morvius Crispin, Paravicar Imperia Wintrish-Krupt
Symbol the Angelous (a winged woman in some ways similar to a more sensuous Sarenrae symbol with Iomedaen sunburst around the head)
Armor An ornate, ancient-style helm with extremely sensuous illustrations (molding, crests with bas-reliefs, 'spines' that are sculptures of entwined individuals, and sensuous background inlays), and specially crafted armor with similar imagery and the Angelous impressed prominently on every major surface. The helms have Abyssal inlays promising ardor, order, devotion, and mercilessness.
Weapon bastard sword or whip
Reckoning experiencing some form of negative energy (such as inflict light wounds or vampiric touch, or even enervation) while maintaining focused meditation in the midst of ongoing distraction and pain

Significant Spell: scholar's lock, vampiric touch, waves of ecstacy

Significant Traits: carefully hidden, charming, hellknight ancestry, indomitable faith, iron liver, memorable, pain is pleasure, purity of faith, steel skin

The Order of the Angel is a Hellknight order founded in 4709 AR by the Lichtor Gonville Chard (previously a paralichtor of the Order of the Rack), after being swayed by Angel Trameldor that they could no longer afford to refuse to act.

The Order of the Angel is often considered heretical or compromised by other Hellknight orders (with the possible exception of the Order of the Scourge... and even that order is unsure, at best), as they are a religious order that focuses almost exclusively on the will of the Angelous, the ancient patron of the Dunblood people and House Angelous; because their various activities, stylistic portrayal, and services are all exceedingly sensuous in nature; and because they are a schism group splintered originally from the Order of the Rack. Despite this, the Order of the Angel has proven to be one of the most effective Orders in terms of swiftly and thoroughly eliminating criminal activity, keeping ordered peace, and bringing the victory of civilization and self-determined law. Due to this, the fact that it was Lichtor Chard's own actions that directly led to the successful creation of two goblin Orders, and that the members of the Order are only marginally able to be considered 'human' (as all are outsiders or goblinoids, thus highly limiting their actual size and influence) the other Orders have done nothing to destroy them... yet. They have a strongly antagonistic relationship with the Order of the Rack, and generally feel that said order no longer serves a purpose (and lost sight of their true goal when recreated by Thrune).

Their primary duty is to root out and destroy organized criminal activity, fifth-column infiltrators, insurgency, and terrorism; as well as to destroy infernal and abyssal influences and eliminate fiendish soul bargains, cults, and corruption. This is primarily accomplished through the heavy use of spell-like abilities. Predominantly acting out of Westcrown, although extremely small, they have a disproportionate amount of influence on the city and surrounding environs.

They also work tirelessly to bring order to the streets, commerce, immigration, and underworld of Westcrown and local environs, carefully monitoring trade and business when they can, as well as ensure the subtle use of suggestion to enable them to steer people away from lawless behavior and toward lawfulness.

They are the only Order to have every member fully memorize both the Measure and the Chain (accomplished by way of magical spells).

The Order holds religious devotions to the Angelous daily, both privately (as personal and group devotions) and open public.

---------------------------------------------

These three orders come from our Council of Thieves game and are recently established (very late in the year).

It's worth noting that none of these orders get along well with either Pharasma's faith, or traditional goblin faiths for various reasons. Or archdevil or any sort of demon cults, for that matter.

Religiously, the closest allies tend to come from Iomedae followed by Abadar, Arshea, Erastil, Sarenrae, and Shelyn; and then Asmodeus, Irori, and (really oddly) Calistria and Urgathoa. While entirely unable to be clerics and Hellknights in the orders, Calistrians of all strips still find their way to being allies of these orders in a bizarre alliance that actually furthers both groups' goals.

If you're curious what the Order of the Angel's helmets look like, viola, but with wings, especially a combination of this (basic form and bas-relief moding/engraving), this (color and jaw-depth) and this; however add wings, and a more sensuous saranrae-like carving (like a tiny metal statue) at the front of the crest, with an Iomedaen starburst for the hair, and fiendish features (such as a tail).

Unneeded Information about our Campaign:
If you're curious about the Angelous, she's a highly active Founder (a kind of saint) of Arazni and Iomedae in our game that is a mythic, redeemed LG succubus (hence the imagery) with angel traits (hence the name) who is (after a round-about fashion) a reincarnated sliver of Easivra (and technically of Vyriavaxus, though she staunchly refuses to acknowledge that part). Her favored weapon is a dagger (or an Unarmed Strike).

Take the chibi (ish) Sarenrae symbol, make the halo more Iomedaen burst, the wings more bat-like, and place an arrow pointing down (from neck to feet), and you've got the basic gist of her holy symbol.

The Dunbloods are a racial group in our game that was created by said creature more or less accidentally over a thousand years ago. When she was first redeemed, she led a large population of hobgoblins, orcs, and giantkin to the material plane from the realm of eternal night they'd long been trapped within, after teaching them how to be lawful good. Though significant, they paled in comparison to the human population and (at her guidance) bred into them and each other. Most of the population has split into tribal groups that dwell in southern Cheliax, while some become so integrated as humans, they're hardly recognizable as anything else. These latter kept themselves organized as a group called House Angelous, who function a little like a mystery cult, but really more like a very (very, very) extended family group. They have trade relations with the people they call the 'Dunbloods' (they don't consider themselves anything other than human, though they are), and none of the groups have their own ancient history correct (the myth has gotten... blurred through the years), though all the groups skew toward lawful good (though there are all alignments represented). The Dunbloods in general tend toward the worship of Erastil (with a very misunderstood Abadar and Sarenrae being close seconds), while House Angelous tends to worship the Angelous itself (a poorly understood or recalled ancestor figure).

In our game Gonville was of House Angelous, and hence the PCs were able to use a shared connection to establish strong relations.

The goblins of Westcrown have nothing to do with the dunbloods, but were given mass Atonements (which they accepted with defeat and diplomacy) to become lawful good... hence the Hellknight orders are possible.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also, I'll need to mention my newest Hellknight Order at some point: the Order of the Sewer. But not now.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Alright, anecdote time.

I've run four games without transparency, and played two games with.

With transparency, Magic has been notably stronger every time.

Without transparency, dwarves got a little more vulnerable, spell-resistance builds weren't the only viable builds that arose, and I noticed no particular increase in bookkeeping.

Now: all the non-transparency was in 3.5, thus things like rage powers, certain feat wordings, and other specialized abilities that are more common in PF than 3.5 would begin cropping up (they certainly existed in 3.5, but were more oft relegated to specific prestige classes or very exclusive items than base/core classes and races save for the dwarf bonus). That's something to be aware of.

One thing that can easily handle things even with the 'Different option, is to take anything that says "X effects, including magical effects" as inclusive language instead of exclusive language: "including" magic effects does not preclude psionic ones.

Those things that specify magic or psionic are the exlusive effects. If I had more time, I'd write more, but now, I'm out.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The only thing I have time for now: Lichtor-King Jinkoo, formerly assistant-near-Armiger of the Tanarrik House Order of the Wrack.

Hee. (Okay: that's a tease, I admit. But until I've got my notes, it won't be done justice. Can't say it'll be done justice then, either, but it'll be better. :D)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hah! Take that, movies I watched when I was ten!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oh. I thought James would become a demon lord of T-Rexes with his mortal memory intact. (Otherwise, that sounds about right and entirely believable).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Aaaaaawesome! I love it at first glance!

When I have time, I'll try and remember to respond more, and to post the three (newly created!) Hellknight Orders that have arisen from our Council of Thieves game: the Order of the Angel, the Order of the Flames (not to be confused with the order of the pyre: that's a totally different Order!), and the most important order of all, the Order of the Sewer!

No, seriously, it's the most important of the Orders. No, I'm not joking.

(Okay, so I say it with some amount of humor, but, in many ways, it really, truly, no-for-realsies is the most important Order of them all.)

Also, dot.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dot.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thinking about how Mythic ties into all of this...

(Oh, yeah, and NECRO!!!!)

((... mostly because I can, and someone else asked me about it, not because I, personally, have much to add right now. But maybe soon... maybe.))


Male Agathion (Leonal) Gestalt Monk-Paladin (with bardic performance!)

Absolutely, Eben: the same thread! (It's not necromancy, if it never truly died...) :D

Always glad to see you, Pendin!


Male Agathion (Leonal) Gestalt Monk-Paladin (with bardic performance!)

I know that Hexy doesn't get more than one attack per round, but... I'm enabling us to move more rapidly, by empowering your narration of combat (at least, in theory). Her dexterity is relatively tanked, and she's not going in that room if she doesn't have to. She does, however, take a five-foot step back into the hallway to make sure it has to come to her, and deal with the shattered remnants of the portcullis, rather than the other way around.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Fallen_Mage wrote:

Man 1: Can I ask you something?

Man 2: Go ahead, ask me.

Man 1: How come we doing this?

Man 2: For the good ol' American way. For the money, for the glory, and for the fun. Mostly for the money.

Smoky and the Bandit, as I recall. It's been... quite a while.

lucky7 wrote:
"What do all men with power want? More power."

The Matrix... maybe, Reloaded? I'm not sure.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Wow! I'm glad to help, and flattered you liked it!

I always want to make things that help people, but I'm never really sure (lacking feedback) whether or not people actually like or use them. Hence, it's always nice to hear!

If you have more questions, you can ask!

The number of non-combatants v. young simple template (who are also kind of non-combatants, but could be in a pinch) kind of increase the total number of living creatures by about 75%-100%, depending on your interpretation (it has quickly become slightly irrelevant in our game, so I didn't bother with being too precise about whether to young simple is 50% of the the non-combatants or 50% of the main population; and by this point, I don't recall which of the two I originally meant when I wrote the notes down in the first place, alas).

The reason it's only half is that the city is dangerous. Too many children -> too many mouths to feed, and they wouldn't really have the chance to survive anyway, given all the diseases, accidents, and other random and terrible deaths that occur all over the place.

Thinking about the above, that's one of the reasons I'm (sometimes) considering the young simple as half the number of non-combatants: early death from unexpected venues. (On the other hand, the young simple template lasts longer than the non-combatant status, hence a lower technical population of any given age could easily result in equal numbers in the relative age ranges. So... I dunno.)

The numbers also vary by what we're talking about.

There are no "non-combatants" (or even "young simple template") undead, for example: if I ever use them, I treat the 'young' medium races as a small core race, and the 'young' small races as a small race reduced by 1 size category; I tend to, ah, delicately side-step, let's say, that particular inevitability by just hand-waiving them all as medium zombies, for the comfort of any players I might have, and avoiding squick factors or darker feelings.

Similarly, the Aberrations, Constructs, and non-Gorilla King-factions have nothing similar, nor do the vegepygmies, nisps, or unique creatures (as those creatures are, well, unique).

Further, despite what my notes might imply, the non-combatants are not entirely children incapable of doing anything (though most certainly are); these also include the (very few) helpless elderly, too-sick-to-move, or otherwise broken folk who can't do anything (and who aren't, for some reason, immediately killed or devoured). And the young simple template doesn't only apply itself to the young (though, again, that's the majority); certain deformities, or sicknesses can also decrease a creature in that way, and one notable member of the Rainbow Serpent tribe (who the PCs only gained a passing knowledge of in my game, so I don't recall who they were) was subject to a permanent magical effect to result in said template (as a result of Egzimora's experimentation... which he survived and ran away from, though with no working memory).

Plus, the 50% is really just an "off-the-cuff" kind of guesstimate: it can (in my own mind) vary from anywhere near 30-35% to 65-or-70%.

All of that makes it a bit difficult to get solid numbers - so many exceptions! - hence the reason I didn't really put them in, in the first place.

Basically, the non-combatants are anyone that you can't really give stats too. I consider them to have 1 or 0 hp (depending), and saves of -5 (as if they had 0 in the relevant ability scores and no class bonus), physical scores otherwise of 1, and mental scores otherwise of 3-7 (as appropriate), no skill ranks or feats, and anywhere from 1/2 to 1/10 of a hit dice (1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 1/6, 1/8, or 1/10) for the exceedingly rare cases I actually need something for them. I ad hoc the variables based entirely on my whim.

You... should probably never need that, though. (I doubt your villains would ever be so awful as mine, so you probably should ever have to deal with, say, a living shield of invisible, silenced infants for HD-related spell effects. Oh, man, did my players hate her. So did I, truth be told.* I... didn't avoid squick-factors back then.)

Regardless, I hope that helps! :D

Off topic Asterisk:
* Homebrew campaign some years back. The players knew there was something fishy, but figured the priestess of Shar just wanted to silence the area around himself to prevent the casters (who'd become known for using their touch spells) from getting close. They demanded to know where the missing babies all were, but, of course, she couldn't hear them. Hating her thoroughly, they still tried a scintillating pattern** spell on her, first, as I (and she) knew they would. It did nothing, of course (as the two-dozen infants were entirely unconscious by the affect... and they, being lower than she, were affected first). Hence, a solid defense. I briefly described the ghostly image of the infants all tied down on the ground in front of her, as she began (mentally) taunting them. Testing a few of her defenses and finding themselves unable to do much, they step back away from her, ostensibly to get out of range of her taunting. That's when they used their only scroll of Circle of Death and aced the roll - a scroll I'd entirely forgotten that they'd acquired long ago from a priest of Cyric**. I panicked, had no idea what to do, and with a look of horror on my face, told them they succeeded, but that the powerful wave of death swept out and... never reached her. They used a dispel area effect, and revealed the terrible sight, and I felt like the worst person ever. After they killed her for being the worst, though, it eventually worked out okay, as the priestess of Sharess was later able to sway the druids of Nephthys (I'd forgotten she was CG in FR, and had played her as CN, like in the Deities & Demigods book - but both were protectors, and Nephthys specifically over children and the dead) to reincarnate them for free (though they later made large donations to the church), then quested for (and purchased) the services of a powerful mage to polymorph them back into their infant bodies to grow up normally.

** It was a magic item they'd acquired quite some time back. They were relatively low-level, but had managed to thoroughly devastate a supposed-to-be-invulnerable a priest of Cyric much earlier in the campaign than I considered possible. He'd made two prior appearances, ignored them, scintillating patterned them with his 'whirly-gig of doom' (as they called it) - and whoever they were supposed to protect - and then coup-de-grace his intended victim and walk out, leaving them to take the blame (only exonerated due to submitting to divination spells from Tyrrans). This time it was simple robbery. This time, they all rolled perfect 20 on their will saves. Both the priest and I were shocked, but, I was interested to see what would happen. They quickly murdered him, despite his really nice gear (which they acquired), his high hit points, and his more powerful magic (which they disrupted). It was pretty great, actually. They savored their revenge, and I enjoyed letting them have fun toys... and then becoming very well known for their fun toys. Good game. Horrible villains they hated. I... got to know evil mindsets pretty well that year. :/


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yes.

Here, mostly.

Generally speaking, though, focus on spells that don't require saves, and that do interesting things. That will help immensely. More than anything else: enjoy!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
ryric wrote:

Rocket tag tends become the problem when the whole group, GM included, buy into the "offense is the best defense" philosophy. When everybody is a glass ninja no wonder the game devolves into "whoever wins initiative wins the fight."

It is very possible to make characters that have a more balanced approach to offense and defense, that are still effective at their jobs, and in those cases you can have satisfying battles at high levels just fine.

You can also go too far the other direction, and build for pure defense, which turns high level fights into multi-hour slogs.

(I'm not judging any of the above playstyles - I know which I prefer, but if you're having fun you're doing it right. Conversely, if your style of build always leads to rocket tag and you don't enjoy rocket tag, you might reconsider your build philosophy. Sticking to a build "truism" at the expense of your own fun is self-defeating.)

I'd love to see a true post 20 book. However, I don't think it's likely now. I think Mythic was the attempt to do that. I would like to see a guide for high level play, that gives tips and suggestions for levels 15+. The game plays very differently at those levels and it can come as a bit of a shock. They could include slightly more robust post-20 rules in such a book, maybe taking you up to 25 or so without "Levels to Infinity!"

This (with the exception of the last sentence) is remarkably similar to (and shorter than) anything I would have written. Also, agreed with, fully. (Though I'd totally want the "infinite progression forever" as that's my kind of thing. :D)

For the record, my own epic games have consistently run very smoothly. As in, when put into practice, the rules (though oft broken and silly) do end up functioning well enough in my experiences (always as a GM, mind, never as. a player) to run an incredibly cool game and do rather phenomenally fun things that aren't possible in the standard rules.


Male Agathion (Leonal) Gestalt Monk-Paladin (with bardic performance!)

What those two said. Regardless of what you might think, we will miss you, and hope your real life gets sorted: I thoroughly understand, though. Life is more important than gaming! God bless you, and I hope things settle quickly.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dot.


Male Agathion (Leonal) Gestalt Monk-Paladin (with bardic performance!)

Aaaaaarrg!

That stupid mistake is still haunting me!

... probably because I originally copy/pasted from another Oracle I made prior to Hexy's, when I first started developing Hexy's sheet. I had a feat Strange Revelations. It was later pointed out for that character that I needed five ranks in Knowledge (religion), so I deleted the feat for both that character and her. Did I not remove the entry? I'll have to do an in-depth review of her sheet. Sorry! I'll audit her later, when I have the chance (I literally just happened to be able to check for a minute today).

EDIT: AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRG! After a glance, it looks like I'm going to have to do a complete rebuild. Grrrrrrrrr... (Sorry!) >:(

I hate making mistakes like this, and more so when they carry over to other places unintentionally. Uuuuugh. I was planning on taking the Nature's Whispers revelation down the line, if I'm able to get the Strange Revelation feat, but I don't have it now, unless you want to grant it to me.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

YOU GUYS ROCK SO HARD!

I was just gathering the last funds needed for the PDFs this week... and you beat me to it! Thank you! :D

EDIT: I even had left this tab open for a few days, but forgot to refresh it, so it looked like there wasn't anything here... then I post something mild, and BAM! Suddenly there's awesome! Thank you all so much! :D


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Aaaaaaaaaaaaactually, based on Mythic Realms, it seems pretty clear that those who succeed the test are, in fact, only minor gods, at best.

It seems they gain a mythic special ability and are considered to have completed a trial.

From my own understanding of how it works:

- Aroden ascended... but that's because he drew the attention of <insert deity here>. He became a greater god because he's freakin' Aroden who wandered the planet for thousands of years making things better.

- Norgorber ascended... but that's because he drew the attention of <insert deity here>. He seems to have become a Greater power by moving into Axis and taking over the underworld there.

- Cayden ascended... but that's because he drew the attention of <Desna? Probably, although maybe Calistria, too or instead... but more likely Desna. I'm guessing.>. (How he became a Greater is unknown, but it likely involved more than just being drunk - it likely mostly involved time and the fact that he gave booze to the dwarves and is so very popular*.)

- Iomedae ascended... but that's because she drew the attention of Aroden (and she was Aroden's herald before he died, at which point she became a greater goddess by inheriting his divinity).

Bear in mind, this is based off of Realms of Golarion, and what that says about the Test of the Starstone... which really isn't that much.

You basically complete it, choose a patron, and if they like you, you get "choose ability A and get unique ability B" when you take a given ability. It's cool, but a bit strange. The door seems pretty solidly shut unless a GM wants it to be open, based off of that.

* While divinity is not based on worship, there does seem to be some correlation to worship/respect and divine power, though it's likely not so tightly related as, say, Forgotten Realms.


Male Agathion (Leonal) Gestalt Monk-Paladin (with bardic performance!)

As noted in the other thread, I'm unlikely to be able to post tomorrow, but so the game doesn't have to sit fallow, if she can carefully examine the traps after the rocks get thrown and suspects they're safe, she'll try to buzz past them as fast as possible.

If not, she shrugs and goes hacking at some wood, singing a 'sacred' (and very vague) song 'to the divine'.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

EDIT:

Luthorne wrote:
Well, I'm not James Jacobs, there is an infernal duke named Ruzel, whose areas of concern are blasphemy, humor, and undeath, which has certainly always intrigued me after I noticed that combination...I've pondered his clerics sneaking into temples and using stone shape or similar transmutation spells to alter the statuary and other similar religious icons to something less flattering if not outright obscene (possible involving devils), animating the dead and invading a town just to pull off a wacky choreographed dance number, stealing the corpse of someone important or respected to animate and force their body to do obscene or ridiculous things in public...always figured him to be a cheerful guy with a truly wicked sense of humor...not sure about the friendliness, though. I also presume he has at least one gnome bard lich follower...

Actually, in our Council of Thieves game, he became a pretty important character. It was... a blast.

Who would win in a fight: Rovagug, Groetus, or Azathoth?

EDIT: Who is your favorite Infernal Duke (not Archduke, but just... duke)?

Who is your favorite Infernal Archduke?

Who are your three favorite Demon Lords (as I know you like those better)?

Who are your three favorite Empyreal Lords?

If I lived nearby and invited you to lunch sometime, would you accept?
(I do not live nearby, though if you're ever in Ocala, PM me, and I'll totally invite you to lunch sometime, if you don't mind a toddler along for the experience.)

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