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FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 1,840 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 14 Pathfinder Society characters.


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You are correct. There is no knowledge roll that will tell you what the guy walking down the street in front of you has as his class.

Racial abilities should be under Knowledge Local.

Class abilities should as well, but only if you have something to tell you what class that PC/NPC is, as many of them have no outward sign.

A guy in leathers with a rapier could be a bard, a rogue, a swashbuckler, a fighter, hell... even a barbarian.

Until you have something to guess at what "class" an individual is, there shouldn't even be a roll to get anything other than visuals.

For example, even once they enter a rage, you don't even know for sure what they are. They could be a ranger, a skald, a barbarian, a cleric, an inquisitor... so that level of knowledge check is probably not settled by a dice roll at all.

That said, religion to get an idea of what divine casters are capable of, arcana for arcane, etc. is reasonable.

So far as race building... Midgard has a decent playable minotaur PC race, although the incredible overvaluing of strength in the point system makes the -4 dex and -4 cha too much.

Possibly, look into the Skinwalker abilities (notably the boar who gets a gore which could be subbed for a bull, and they can be in hybrid form all the time).

So far as class.

A Primalist/spelleater Bloodrager.

I personally like the Arcane bloodline, as it makes it harder to cast around you and gives you disruptive and spellbreaker without being a fighter, and extra AoO's specifically for casting.

Also, free blur, haste, displacement, prot arrows, or resist energy for each specific fight are amazing.

Then, you can self-heal with spellslots, if you want to not really be a "caster", but more that you are incredibly tough and resilient, as your magic is really just more hitpoints.

Warpriest is also a good class for this. You can have thunder and Fang at level 3 regardless of race.

1st: two weapon fighting 1st level feat; weapon focus Earthbreaker bonus warpriest.

3rd: bonus combat feat - Thunder and Fang, 3rd level feat -Weapon Focus klar .

plus, self buffs as immediate and the scaling klar damage is a nice thing.

EDIT: Noted the BAB for weapon focus point. Switched TWF and WF

Stats: 20 pt buy, no racials chosen.

Str 16
Dex 15
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 8

Garuda Blooded Aasimar would be one of the best choices, giving you
Str 16, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 8.

I always ask this. If the spell wasn't cast, or if the save was made, would the damage happen? If so, it is spell damage. If not, it is it's own damage.

Just like sneak attack. Sneak attack damage isn't it's own damage source, it is an add-on amount on top of the normal attack damage, and even shares the same damage type (B/P/S) of the weapon used to perform the attack.

I would say that it works, with a good portion of that being that the spell level determines the damage of the burning each round, and also because to douse the flames uses the original spells DC. It is very clearly based on the spell as the source of the damage to me.

For clarity, Burning Magic does nothing for spells like Scorching Ray or Fiery Shuriken, as it specifies you have to fail a save in order to catch fire. So, only spells that allow a save, (and would negate the extra burn and the daze effect on a successful save) are ever going to be important.

The result of abilities that stack together to be very effective, just like many spells with saving throws. They are commonly more effective than attack roll spells, especially with both a class feature and a feat used to enhance them.

Your understanding of the ranger combat styles is correct, and you do still have to meet the Weapon Focus pre-req for point blank master even as a style feat.

If you have both classes... you have the feature still.

Archetypes only modify the class they modify, they do not change abilities granted by other classes unless specified or FAQ'd to do so (such as the bloodline abilities of sorcerers sometimes applying to all spells cast even from other casting classes).

I think there is a limit to what spells carry over between games.

However, for the purposes of making them easier to track, buy wands for 2PP of the basics (Shield, Longstrider, Lead Blades).

Then invest in one point of UMD so that you can at least roll until you get it or it comes up a 1 (which still lets other people try to work it for you).

I only mark them off once I actually burn the charge from the stone, instead of when I originally activate the wand (provided it isn't the last charge).

I would say Weapon Finesse, Agile Maneuvers, and Combat Expertise should all be free (however, any feat with one of them as a Pre-req now has BAB +1 instead). Power Attack, Deadly Aim, Piranha Strike should be granted with BAB +1 (i.e. 1 stage of formal weapons training).

Shadow Strike should not necessarily be granted free, but instead the precision damage restriction should be relaxed if you have the proper vision for the lighting conditions (i.e. if you have darkvision or low light vision you ignore the restriction for those light levels). The feat should still be used to remove the restriction for things like blur, displacement, etc. where concealment is granted for something other than light levels.

Strike Back should be a valid condition of a readied attack against natural weapons, but should still take a feat for manufactured weapons, but I would remove the BAB req.

There are a TON of pre-req feats that do nothing for later feats in a chain. Combat Expertise being an obvious culprit. Using that feat actually makes every other maneuver worse. Same with Power Attack. (since all penalties on attack rolls apply to maneuvers)

Tripping Strike has Imp Trip as a pre-req, and the reason behind it can be anything.

In order to trip, you normally have to sacrifice an attack, in this case you are so good at it that you get to do it for free anytime you land a particularly good strike (crit).

However, as an add-on, it doesn't get its own roll with attendant bonuses, you just trip exactly as well as you crit. Whatever that number is.

In the same manner that I wouldn't expect to add another +6 to my Bullrush total from my shield slam (+4 feats, +2 Dwarven racial sub for stability), I wouldn't expect to add my bonuses from my feats to an add-on trip.

However, if that is the ruling handed down, it just makes my characters better than I thought.

@ Darksol,

It doesn't forfeit attack bonuses, only bonus -Attacks-.

Whirlwind Attack is one attack at full bonus against anything you threaten.

If it was designed to do what you are arguing, it would say "you also forfeit any attack bonuses or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities."

So far as the above build, either a Two Handed Style or a Gorum Style can get those feats in ... so far as Combat Reflexes you can get it at 8, not really any sooner. You can take either URogue or any fighter class after level 7, although I would still go to 8 for the other talent.
That would get you either more sneak attack or more feats, depending on what you want.

This is the same as Shield Slam, which uses the Shield Bash Attack roll as the total for the Bull Rush Maneuver check.

You do not get to add bonuses that would be applied to a straight maneuver roll, you use the full total of you attack roll (or crit confirmation in the case of Tripping Strike).

However, it does not have the same limits of the combat maneuver either, so far as I read it.

Try a Dwarven Slayer Reach weapon user.

Traits Glory of Old, whatever else.

Use the Dorn Dergar

Str 16 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 6. (20 pt buy)

1: Power Attack
2: Cleave,
3: Goblin Cleaver
4: Rogue Talent, Combat Feat: Surprise Follow Thru
5: Orc Hewer
6: Cleaving Finish
7: Gr Cleave
8: Talent:
9: Imp Surprise Follow Thru

Now, you get attacks on every enemy within range at full BAB (provided you continue hitting, full BAB decent str and study means you should), and after the first they are denied Dex and subject to sneak damage.

Surprise Follow Thru and Imp Surprise Follow Thru do NOT require you to be a half-orc, even though they are listed in that race section in the ARG.


You can cast a one round spell, which is a full round action, by using the Standard Action Option of (Start/Complete a full round action).

So, in that one specific case, you can start casting a full round action and also more a double move over the course of 2 rounds, instead of one round.

It is a rare corner case, and typically most people don't do it since it allows a 1 round spell to be interrupted before it completes, which is not normally possible without a readied action on the enemies part.

Usually I only see it done when there is an environmental effect in place that makes standing still for a whole round not viable.

So far as removing Dirty Tricks, each condition is separate, so you would take a different action to remove each.

For reference, I have a Skulking Slayer 7/Lore Warden 5 in PFS play.
Stats started at Str 17, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8

Lore Warden 5 give +2 static CMB/CMD, and Weapon Training to use Gloves of Dueling for a total +3 (Use Flails, Heavy Flail is d10 19-20x2 weapon, close to greatsword damage, and whip/scorpion whip is in the same group for later).

Dusty Rose Ioun Stone in a wayfinder gives another +2.

PFSFG Dueling enchantment (+1, grants a Luck Bonus on all CMB with the chosen weapon equal to double the enhancement bonus) so a +1 weapon give +3 total to CMB with the weapon, +2 gives +6 total, etc.

He has full capabilities for Dirty Trick, Trip, and decent Steal, Reposition, Drag (Drag and Reposition can be done using a weapon with the trip property, and Steal can be done with Whip at -4, notably his +3 Dueling Scorpion Whip to do them at range so they don't provoke)( +9).

Skulking Slayer adds +1 to Dirty trick for each sneak die(+4), and +1 1/2 for Steal(+6). Stacks with Scout, so when you charge, you get to sneak attack.

There is a Feat that adds sneak dice to CMB if you are flanking or denied dex. (+4)

UnRogue Debilitating Strike lowers AC, so also lowers CMD. (-4)

Surprise Follow Thru and Imp Surprise Follow thru are wonderful. Since they are denied dex, their CMD is lowered.(-Dex Mod)

Power attack the first guy, then cleave into his friends and blind them.

Also, Cleave doesn't require you doing damage, just a melee attack on each target. So, you can technically trip them all, and proc a free attack from GR Trip, to make the secondary targets both prone and blind on a cleave since surprise follow thru denies them dex. Requires Combat reflexes and a decent dex. (-4 CMD from prone)

Power Attack is your damage dealing win button for plain old hitting things, with a 2 handed weapon. And being Str Based, x1.5.

Give him a Slayer.

Rogue Talents, Sneak Attack, decent skills, with Fighter HD, BAB, and Medium Armor.

Alternately, give him a Melee Hunter with a Flanking Companion.

Or, a Dervish Dancing Archaeologist Bard.

Skills, Dex, Minor Spellcasting, with a scaling bonus that he can use to actually do damage.

Make a Magus, get the Cure/Inflict spells on list. (Samsaran, etc.)

Wear 2 Gauntlets, one with a cure one with an inflict wand inside from Weaponwand spell.

Each round you can spell combat, with whatever spell you had charged at start and whatever spell you cast at end.

Not the best, but can be done.

Only way I know to cast and full attack in a round is magus, or quickened spells (which are not worth it by that point).

A witch with the Quicken SLA Feat for Healing Hex could also handle the heal part, but only 1/day for each person.

Also works on undead enemies 1/day though, so can still be pretty fun, and in a campaign healing every NPC you ever meet 1/day can be amazing for after battle/plague/siege purposes.

Actually, with the Hex Strike Feat and the Healing Hex from witch you could 1/round heal on an attack, which does what you want, but you would actually have to hit an ally's AC first. Look to your GM for how hard that would be

Ok... how about the Wild Child Brawler Archetype? It uses some feats, but having the pet that also gets to help with grappling/pinning would be pretty awesome.

Take the Tandem trip/maneuver feats and roll up on something that way.

Or even a pure hunter, who focuses on fighting alongside the companion.

Although, I have to warn you, in Carrion Crown you will have a lot of enemies that you don't want to grapple at all, since undead have notoriously bad touch attacks in many cases.

Maybe make a Sacred Fist Warpriest... get some good mileage out of minor spells and go that route.

Also, Snapping Turtle Clutch (BAB+3 or Monk 3) lets you grapple as an immediate action when you are missed, so that would let you run up, hit, if they miss you, grapple, then start the round grappled to pin.

In addition, if you grapple on your turn, and they chose to attack instead of breaking the grapple and fail, you can immediately attempt to pin them as your check. That is funny as hell


That enchantment is the single best booster for maneuver characters.

For the record, we just finished the entire AP with no cleric.

We had an inquisitor, and a Paladin, but no cleric

Actually, any weapon that has the trip property can be used to make a drag or reposition, so those get the full benefits of weapon based bonuses. Just for reference.

In addition, the blogpost on dirty tricks acknowledges that some weapons are appropriate for making a dirty trick with, subject to GM call. Example used was using a sap to make a groin shot to sicken the target.

I have had no issue even in PFS to use a scorpion whip to entangle, sicken, deafen, even blind given the proper description. Of course, you have to get the GM to describe the enemy including clothing/equipment.

Snap to the groin to sicken, crack a whip near the head to deafen, wrap around the legs to entangle, drag the cloak over the head to blind, etc.

For a Drunken Monk type, there is a magic tankard item in one of the new books I saw in another thread that counts as a weapon and lets you store extra drinks in the same glass.

There is the Nimble Guardian Monk archetype, which actually lets you use Beast Shape 2 at level 7 and Beast Shape 3 at level 9. You can be an actual Lion for 1 hour for 2 ki points.

That lets you pounce, full attack(claw/claw/bite/rake), and get a free grapple if you hit with your bite.

Then take Imp Grapple, Gr Grapple(BAB 6+, soretrain an earlier feat at level 8), and Rapid Grappler(monk 9).

Now, you get to pounce, full attack, and start a grapple. Then, you get to make 3 grapple checks a round (which can be used to pin and/or do damage).

Depends on the set-up. You can literally do whatever you want, you could let them sell for 100% if you want, since you control how much treasure they find.

If you let them sell for more than 50%, just decrease the total loot they find by half of that bonus.

For example, if they are supposed to have 3000g/character at level, but you let them sell for 60%, then you only need to drop 5000g/level in treasure instead of 6000g/level to match standard wealth.

Now, if you are looking to actually give a bonus to the players for building a good negotiator, then you can include the the normal total treasure, and let them have some extra money to work with as a reward.

We finished RotRL recently, and since we had a max diplomacy Paladin in the group, we got a flat 60% once we got to our first major city and our first real reputation boost.

Before that, we rolled each time we went to sell, (which was under level 6). Base DC was 20, for every 5 we beat it by we got another 5%.

Special/campaign specific items were negotiated with the bargaining rules to make them special, a Thassilonian +1 dagger was worth the same amount to a normal weapon shop, but a collector of Thassilonian history would pay up to 75% instead because of the specific item.

Actually, if you have a +19 or higher, you can use a wand or a staff without fail.

CRB UMD Skill wrote:
Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours.

(Bold Mine)

You only get the 24hour lockdown on wand/rod/staff if you roll a 1 and also fail, but a natural 1 doesn't automatically fail on skill checks.

And the UMD is what is needed for not having it on your spell list, if it was on your spell list you wouldn't need to UMD at all.


Every time I have been in one of these scenarios the damn princess has turned out to be in another castle.

Delirium's Tangle, minotaur is a friendly you have to find (Level 1-5)

The Confirmation, Minotaur is the bossfight (Level 1-2).

There's another one where there is a fight with a ghost minotaur in a maze, which is downright mean, but I don't remember what level it is, either 1-5 or 3-7.

You can be a Half-Orc skulking slayer, and then add your sneak attack dice to the Dirty-Trick maneuver. Also gets you the ability to Dirty Trick anytime you could make a sneak attack.

There is a Feat that adds your sneak attack dice to your CMB for a maneuver in the Advanced class guide. I see nothing that says that class feature and the feat wouldn't stack, so that would get you double your sneak attack dice to the maneuver.

Consider Frigid Touch instead of Vampiric Touch for your spell storing armor.

Vamp Touch gets you temp hitpoints, but Frigid Touch stops a full attack (they become staggered after the first hit, and having already taken an attack they end their turn).

The original word from SKR when he was still in charge of direct rules explanations, was that a Barbarian with a 12 Str could take the Power Attack feat, but only use it while raging.

It was used for a long time as the basis for temp scores counting in full for bonuses/penalties.

Most brutal hunter build I ever came up with was a Halfling hunter, built to be mounted. Wild Child Brawler Dip so you don't have to waste points in Int, unless you roll stats and can afford it.

Take a wolf for the first 3 levels, as it has a free trip on the bite, and starts medium to ride.

After level 4, you change to a small cat advanced to medium size, so still riding.

Mount gets Bodyguard archetype, so he gets those feats without the Int problem.

Have Combat Reflexes, Weapon Finesse on pet to start, Bodyguard later.

Expertise and Pack Flanking, OutFlank, Lookout, and Escape Route by level 5.

AC has 5+ AoOs/round. You get +4 AC if they swing at you. You can move anywhere while mounted, with no AoO's for you and mount because of Escape Route. You count as flanking while mounted, with Pack Flanking, which bumps all attacks for you and mount by +4 while you are mounted.

This combined with a good Acrobatics makes Expertise to bump AC viable, as the bonuses you have from the teamwork make it all worthwhile.

Bodyguard gets to always act in surprise round, so you both always act regardless of perception, and most of the time (wis based caster with perception bonuses) you should get a full round in surprise rounds from Lookout.

Later, take Tandem Trip so that AC gets to roll twice and take better for the free trip on a bite, with all the teamwork stacks you should have a decent shot for as long as grounded opponents matter.

You can switch to a Roc later when flying becomes necessary, and everything still works.

You will want Imp Share Spells teamwork feat later since Bodyguard gives that up, and then buffing takes less time since you share the duration to both of you with a single casting.

Pet stays medium for land based, so never have the problems with squeezing mounts are notorious for.

What in the world is the argument about whether or not you can negate someone's action with this?

It clearly says they continue their action if able. Which means, by definition, that there will be times when they are UNABLE to continue because of a readied interruption.

You give up your standard, to negate someone else's action (provided it falls within a narrow window that you know beforehand).

In order to do this "Dancing Kobold" interpretation that is being blown all out of proportion btw, (since it has been shown that it works for a single round at most), you also are locked into staying in place. There are places that make this workable (but honestly, choke points are always in the defenders favor so whatever) but not nearly as broken as is argued.

First round: Kobold goes first, readies to attack/step if attacked.
Fighter moves, swings, gets attacked by kobold and misses his swing. Since he has moved and swung he has a swift or free left only.
Second Round: Kobold readies again, fighter moves up and doesn't swing, now kobold is stuck in a faceoff. One hit advantage, the same single hit winning initiative gave him.

As well, single attack enemies are stupid choices in any situation, commonly shown to be a broken model in this system (as in pointless challenges- unless the goal is to one shot the first target), negating them is no big deal as it works for a single round at most.

I think most people are upset that common battle tactics can negate their brain-dead RAWRSMASH charge builds. And are using the Kobold angle disingenuously to try and get it changed backdoor style.

If you are not an inquisitor, you can't use the bane baldric to augment your natural attacks. Because you can't attune a claw by hanging from the Baldric for 24 hours.

If you are an Inquisitor, you can do it however you like with the extra 5 rounds/day, since you can use natural weapons with bane just fine.

Well... we just are a game from finishing RotRL, and from what I can tell, unless your GM is going to give you more time in game, you won't have time to really craft a lot at all.

We were having a hard enough time just crafting things and upgrading the gear we found in the time allotted.

Jaunt Boots are a trap, if you go pure RAW.

They take a standard to activate, so you get to burn a standard to move 15 ft without provoking.

If your GM is reasonable, then they are use activated instead of command word, so you can just do it as part of a 5ft step.


You only get one AoO for a single creatures entire move through your threatened aread.

You do NOT get one for the 15ft-10ft, then for the 10ft-5ft.

Each movement provokes only once regardless of how many squares they move through.

So unless you stopped them at 10 ft and they had to move again next round to 5ft, they would only have one AoO.

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No problem...

When you said that I actually took a second to go back and read Sohei again to make sure it didn't require a "monk" quality weapon just in case I was wrong, lol.

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How can you not flurry with the Urumi? It's in the Monk Weapon Group.

At 6th level (which is the only time Sohei opens up any new weapons)+, you can take the Monk weapon group for weapon training.

Urumi is not a "monk" special quality weapon, but Sohei just takes the monk weapon group not "monk" weapons.

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If you go with Sohei, you can use the Urumi. It is a blade that is so thin and flexible it can be worn as a belt.

Or, for 2000g, you can get the Bladed Belt, and make it whatever you like.

For reference... I didn't read the whole thread. But in the first 5 entries...

You can't take an AoO with a reach weapon from behind an ally.

You can't take an AoO on someone with cover, and reach weapons use the ranged rules for cover.

So, if they come straight at you and your friend keeping the ally between you the whole time, you get nothing.

If you are planning a wisdom based grappling build, then Rapid Grappler in the future is a must.

For a non-violent angle, you can always choose to do non-lethal with your unarmed damages.

A grappler is actually very good at non-violence, with monk of the lotus included.

There are a few feats that slow, and some that do other conditions (notably jawbreaker/neckbreaker) on grapple checks, they don't specify the damage must be lethal so far as I remember.

It could be done.

Dazzling Display build. Because Chainsaw.

Order of the Cockatrice Gnome Cavalier. Because tinker-gnomes are a thing that should be played often.

Possibly adding bard and going Battle herald, because melee love teamwork feats for free and buff/debuff support.

It would be EPIC.

Take a skald if you want the more fighty type... Cavalier or Swashbuckler could be more synergy than fighter for stats. Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger is also fun times, only need 1 level really, and take the Jury Rig spell to make up for losing quick-clear.

Or take 2-3 levels in Lore Warden Fighter/Archivist Bard X for a Chronicler type concept that can use weapons ok but masters none. Especially good if you focus on Dirty Trick instead of a lot of the other maneuvers that don't scale to multi-leg/flying creatures. Not a lot of creatures immune to blinding...

I have wanted to make one for a while now. All Int Skills as class skills, 3 bonus feats, if 3 level LW +2 CMB, bardic Knowledge, bonuses to AC/Saves instead of attack/damage (damage scales fine normally, but higher level save or suck/die are more likely in my experience than just damage).

Stats aren't good for Str build, and not really great for dex build... but will be fine for a non-optimized fun character.

Don't let anyone say the casting delay is "killing your spellcasting". You just don't make casting your focus, more of another pouch on your bag of tricks than your main schtick.

I went Fighter first for PFS, for the extra 2 HP. Then alternated Rogue/Fighter until level 9. After getting Wpn training and gloves of dueling, rest were rogue.

I took City Raised for whips, scavenger and bestial for alt racials.

1F1: PA, Furious Focus (to retrain later)
3F2: Expertise (free), Imp Trip, Imp Dirty Trick.
4R2: Surprise Follow Thru
5F3: +2CMB/CMD, Combat Reflexes
7F4: Gr Trip, Felling Smash, Gr Dirty Trick (RT Furious Focus)
8R4: Talent, with unchained rogue the debuff ones I took are free so whatever.
9F5: Cleaving Finish (for extra attacks when you drop someone)
11R6: Whatever talent, whatever feat

It's online as 2H damage from level 1. Online for some Control by 3, and Online for major control by 7-9.

Pick up a Wayfinder with a Dusty Rose Ioun Stone slotted in for 5250g, and another +2 to CMB.

+6 CMB at 3, +10 at 5, +14 at 7, +17 at 9. +2 for whatever level you get the stone, +2 for whatever level you get Gloves of Dueling for weapon based ones(I bought mine at level 9). +sneak attack dice to dirty trick maneuvers. +1 1/2 sneak attack dice to steals, use a whip for that at range so no AoO, or do it after you blind. +2 charging, +2 flanking. Extra bonuses with the Dueling Whip. (at level 11 I have mid 30s on trip, dirty trick, and steal)

You need teammates who understand flanking setups... at that point you can charge into a flank, PA for damage, trip as a swift, and then blind them while they are on the ground (and your teammate gets AoO too). Remember prone AC penalty applies to CMD, as does rogue debilitating strike penalty.

I actually have a Skulking Slayer/Scout 7 rogue in play, mixed with 5 levels of Lore Warden Fighter for the feats, weapon spec, and bonus CMB. Remember the Human FCB to get 1/6 of a talent.

At low levels, he charges for d8 sneak dice with a Heavy Flail. (reason is d10 damage, and in the same weapon group as the Whip, used later). Higher levels, I took power attack and Felling Smash.

Now, when you charge, you get to hit for PA+Sneak, then free trip. After Greater Trip, you get another hit on the downed foe.

Skulking Slayer can Dirty Trick or Steal anytime they can sneak. So, you can charge, and blind. Or charge and steal the holy symbol/casting component pouch/wand/potion/scroll you are worried about.

I bought a (PFSFG version) Dueling whip, for a luck bonus to CMB equal to double the enhancement bonus of the weapon. Whip can specifically be used to steal, and dirty trick depending on your GM for what is entailed.

Surprise Follow through and the Cleave line let you move in, PA and Trip one target, then Blind his friend (thanks to him being denied dex you can sub the dirty trick).

It's a really fun build, using a 2handed Str d10 weapon with the d8 sneak dice and Gloves of Dueling, you get some pretty good bonuses and damage.

I didn't go the Bludgeoner route, but you could. I got to Dirty Trick and blinding give -4 AC, no AoO's, and free sneak... when you get Gr Dirty Trick they lose their attacks to remove it too.

Yeah... as has been stated. The "Within One Step" clause only applies to clerics.

LG paladin of CG deity is legal.

Without 3.5 conversion, CG paladin is not.

PFS is the place that extended the "One Step" rule to all divine casters... it's not core.

There is the Quick Steal feat, takes BAB +6 and Imp Steal. You can make a steal maneuver using you highest attack bonus in a full attack. So, steal his whatever, then proceed to hit him too. Bonus points for monks in a flurry so you still get another attack at highest.

Several Rogue archetypes allow steal or dirty trick in place of a sneak attack.

So if you were flanking, you could do it.

Or if they were flat-footed for some reason, such as sneaking up and grabbing wands/potions/scrolls off the enemy the surprise round. (Note, you can make a steal maneuver with a whip at reach, with a -4, but that makes it use the weapon so weapon bonuses would apply. Ergo, if you are good enough a wizards cmd will probably be something you can beat at reach, since mage armor, shield and most mage AC buffs wouldn't apply, and they are not known normally for being strong or dexterous.)

That's just it... with Ascetic Style, you don't need Feral Combat Training at all.

You can just use a weapon with all the unarmed abilities... So Ascetic Style, Hamatulatsu, and Impaling Crit are all you need.

Now you have a 17-20/x2 piercing attack that uses unarmed strike scaling damage and if they pull off or you pull off you get to do damage again.

It really works best with a Brawler, since they count as fighters for feat pre-reqs, and you need weapon Spec to take Impaling Crit.

You need IUS, Wpn Focus (unarmed), Wpn Focus(cestus), for Ascetic Style and Hamatulatsu. Then you need Weapon Spec(Cestus), and Critical Focus for Impaling Crit, which means Weapon Adept Monk 3, Unarmed Fighter (free style feat)4, or Brawler 4.

So... 8 feats and BAB of +11 to have a 17-20x2 crit, full unarmed strike damage, impaling fist attack, that sickens (or staggers) the target, and takes a move action on their part to pull your hand out of their chest for extra damage. At BAB 13 it ups to a grapple check to pull it out, and it deals damage, or bleed damage when it does.


*** Emei Piercer would get you to 17-20/x2 ... which is the pretty damn good for "Unarmed" looking strikes.

Cestus is also 19-20/x2 B or P... 1d4 instead of 1d3 (not that that matters with Ascetic Style) simple weapon nothing exotic that needs special training. And is in the monk weapon group.

Flying Blade Swashbuckler ...with daggers... 17-20 crit and you can carry lots of them.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency Feat.

There are some ways to reduce non-prof with favored class bonuses, but I don't think for paladin.

Half-Elf Racial.

Some archetypes give you domains, I think one of the domains grants prof with weapon, not good on cleric stuff.

If the original attack didn't hit, it doesn't matter that it was a threat.

To threaten a critical requires the original roll to hit.

The "rules lawyer" was exactly right in this case.

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