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FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 1,876 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 14 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Make him a human raised/trained by halflings.

(Use the Human bonus feat at first level to take Racial Heritage: Halfling) so he doesn't get hosed later when things get too big for him to trip faster than he gets his phantom size increase.

I had a build somewhere that at level 12 needed a 3+ on the dice to trip and pin an adult red dragon (CMD 45 or so).

Underfoot adept... Maneuver Master, Sensei, and Hungry Ghost monk (whatever gets the knockdown kick) 3 of them in some combination, I think stack... or they did at the time before the rules got changed.

You don't need agile maneuvers for a trip, since a trip can be done with a weapon, and weapon finesse applies to unarmed.

Combat Reflexes, Imp Trip, Gr Trip, then the grappling feats since the prone bonus to attack applies to maneuvers.

It was a very specific trick... but it works well. It just doesn't do damage, so most people will tell you it becomes worthless.

Make sure you take the Underhanded Rogue Talent to get max sneak damage on the first round of combat.

Also Inquisitor. Bane gives +2 static along with the 2d6.

I stand corrected then. I have never actually taken either of these, so just looked them up quickly.

Actually, he is fine.

Double Slice and Two-Weapon Rend do not have a dex pre-req.

He takes TWF, ITWF, and GTWF at 2/6/10 which means he ignores the pre-req of dex.

If you want to build a thunder and fang weapon combo... that is a decent set up.

If you would like an alternative to this, look at the Dwarven Cleave Feat chain (so that they no longer have to be adjacent) and use a Dwarven Dorn-Dergar. (see Meteor Hammer if using d20pfsrd)

You can use reach or close, and with the 2 feats for it, even wield one in each hand so that you can attack at both close and 10ft.

As well, under the h-Orc race in the ARG are the feats Surprise Follow Thru and Imp Surprise Follow Thru, which mean you get sneak attack damage on cleave targets. Since you are Str based, Full BAB class, with a built in Attack increase from Studied Target, you should pretty much always hit on your first attack. Cleave uses the same bonus, so you never take the iterative penalties.

Needs: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Goblin Slayer, Orc Hewer, Giant Killer, Surprise Follow Thru, and Imp Surprise Follow Thru.

Gives: Full attack bonus 2h weapon damage d10+1.5Str+1:3PA damage, plus sneak attack to anything after the first. With Imp Trip and Felling Smash you can also trip the first one as a swift action after hitting with a Power attack.

It is the build I am planning to run if I ever get to do Giant Slayer AP.

I have to say i disagree about the wis and con crap.

My half orc skulking slayer played all the way to 12 with an 8 wis and a 10 con. I picked up a shawl of life keeping which stores 10 hp, and heals you id you would ever drop below 0.

Which also meant i didnt even have a cloak of resistance. I did take 3 levels of fighter mid game... But that was only a +3 total to fort saves.

As well... A 5250gp investment of a sayfinder and a ioun stone makes mind controlling non-issues.

If you are really worried about being that squishy... Take Fast Getaway rogue talent and withdraw after any sneak attack as a move.

Everyone is using the FAQ on the FCB that was specifically made to prevent oracles from having animal companions with HD=1.5 char level, to blanket it to things that obviously weren't considered when it was made.

Specifically, if something gives you 1/6 of something, and you will have it normally by the 6th level where you actually get the extra one, it should work.

The FAQ was to prevent people from taking a revelation 1/2 of their levels, so that when they get it for the first time at 7 they automatically get the 10th level version of it with the upgrade.

If you think that you have to have the talent class feature at level 2 to take the 1/6 talent FCB, then you have to go back through the APG and errata about 6 different examples that have the wrong bonuses listed when they were printed, because they started using them from level 1.

The text does not match the "RAN" (Rules as Nerfed), because the rules didn't limit you at when created. Then they printed something that had crazy interactions, and instead of specifying that you can only take -specific powers that scale with level- after you first get them, they blanket statemented it in a knee jerk overreaction that actually invalidated several of their own printed examples.

Examples: 1/6 rogue talent, combat feat, slayer talent, magus arcana, etc. should work from level 1.

Oracle revelations, bard songs, etc. that count as higher levels, shouldn't be able to be taken until you actually have that revelation, song, etc.

That simple of a distinction in the FAQ would have stopped the multiple threads for the last 4 years, and would also have meant that the examples in the printed books would also still be correct.

Depends. The benefit to any martial is getting to a Pounce mechanic... otherwise you are going to be seeing a lot more of a difference on single attack rounds, where the greatsword is going to be better off with the extra dice and the higher power attack ratio.

Want a crazy build?

Ragebred Skinwalker, take the feat that gives you extra beast traits for 2 hooves and a gore that are primary all day long, or secondary used with that same greatsword until level 4 when you get beast claws...

Rageshaper/Primalist Bloodrager with the Arcane Bloodline... give up 4th and 12th level bloodline abilities for Beast Totem Line and one other rage power (that can be taken by a 4th level barbarian)

Now... 5 primary natural attacks, anytime you are bloodraging.

You have Power Attack, the Extra traits Racial feat, Arcane Strike and Blooded Arcane Strike, and either Disruptive(if you fight lots of casters) or any other feat (if you wait til 6 to get Power attack with your bloodline feat).

At level 8, +8BAB, +8 Str(18 base, 2 level, 2 item, 4 rage).
So... +16/16/16/16/16 doing d6/d6/d6/d4/d4 +18. With Power Attack, +13 x 5, doing +22 damage each.

You lose 2 Str, but get 2 more attacks, and pounce at level 12(without a spell).

MoMS Monk or Unarmed Fighter let you start taking the feat chain at level 1.

MoMS Monk 2/Fighter3(I suggest Lore Warden for the maneuver/skills since you won't be wearing armor anyways) could have all 6 feats, plus another monk feat and expertise free.

Blinded Blade Style lets you ignore the perception reqs for the next one in the chain, and so on... so you can take them all by level 5, using all your feats.

Human MoMS 2/Warpriest of Shizuru 5 could also do it, and might have more synergy, plus will have another monk feat and a free weapon focus, Sacred Fist will have one less feat but other things added, like evasion for fortitude.

It would also qualify you for Crusader's Flurry with Katana... and be a pretty good mix.

Cleric could also be good by taking the domain that gets you free blind-fight.

I wouldn't let them change the attack action, which is what they started.

AoO's happen right before the action that triggered them, but that action is not "Shoot a Crossbow" it is "Make a Ranged Attack".

If they had a ranged weapon that would be legal, they could continue their attack.

Same as melee attack, so long as they were in reach, they could continue.

If you disarm them during their attack, but they are still within reach to attack you unarmed, I would say that they still continue their attack unarmed, because they are still capable of completing their original action to attack.

If however, you disarm someone swinging a polearm at you and they are out of reach, attack would be negated.

Yeah. I can't see half-orcs being consensual offspring...

There were half-elf/half-halflings in some system i remember, +4 dex -2 con -2 str but 30ft movement. plus some other things

The base weight is metal so far as I can see, the weight of the wooden parts even in early firearms is negligible compared to the metal.

Boglor could easily be a Slayer with the Cleaner Archetype.

Zagim doesn't have any class that jumps out, could be any kind of fire based caster, even a Blade Adept Arcanist could be a fun twist.

Lincol Freebooter ranger, Cutthroat Slayer, Lore Warden Fighter (for combat maneuvers like dirty trick and skills), Swashbuckler, even a Brawler or a Skald.

Xemestra an Investigator, a Archaeologist Bard, an Alchemist, etc.

Have an Unseen Servant do it for you.

That is a simple action easily within the ability of the spell to accomplish.

By level 11... I can get you a much bigger set of bonuses, but not with Horizon Walker included.

Rage Pounce Smite at level 11.

26+ Str, 6 attacks, +14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14 doing 1d6(or 1d8)+25 damage each.(with power attack -3/+6 incl)

Str 17 Dex 14 Con 15 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 7 to start. Str at 4, Con at 8.
As Human/Half-orc...
+4 Str item...

Wild Stalker Ranger 5/Druid 6

Shaping Focus Feat, Planar Wild Shape Feat.

Rage 9 rounds/day, (take extra rage maybe) Lesser Fiend Totem power.

Shape into any pouncing creature (Tiger, Raptor)

Planar wild shape gets Smite=HD So, claw/claw/bite/gore/rakex2 on a charge (so +2 attack on top of the earlier numbers)

This is without even using any of the nice buff spells on the ranger/druid lists.

But for a Horizon Walker goal, I actually prefer the World Walker Druid Half-Orc (for the free endurance) entry as opposed to the Ranger, 2 less feats but you get druid spells to 3rd level and Wild Shape, with the Shaping Focus feat that is amazing.

In that case, Maat has Knowledge, Law, Protection, Void, and Weather.

Shizuru no longer works as he also has the sun, unless you flavor it as the darker side of his order who work in the night to enforce his values.

Yeahzing has Artifice, Death, Evil, Law, Trickery...

Actually... with that in mind... Tanagaar the Empyreal Lord is probably the one for you. He is an Archon Lord who seems like a wonderful fit.

Read his stuff on Archives of Nethys... it also links to the wiki

Archives of Nethys is one of the best places to search for this kind of thing. They are better organized IMO than the PFSRD.

That said, just scrolling down the Pantheon listings...

Maat in the Osirion Pantheon.

The Hellknight order of Cheliax is an entire order serving multiple gods that has that mentality...

Shizuru is a samurai style deity of Tian Xia... Yaehzing is an evil version of vengeance and harsh justice from that pantheon too.

Dwarven: Dranngvit is debt, pursuit, vengeance; Kols is Duty, Honor, Promises

Empyreal Lord Ragathiel might be the best, also giving Bastard Sword if you have deities favored weapon.

Warden gives up combat style and favored enemy for favored terrain at 1st, 3rd, and extra bonuses in it at 4th instead of the AC.
Battle Scout gives up Animal Companion and favored enemy past 1st for extra bonuses.
Freebooter gives extra bonuses for a pirate style character, but only 1 favored terrain at 3 like normal.

The rogue talent now does the same as the ranger version, which is that you can increase one talent in addition to the one you get... so taking the rogue talent 3 times means you have one at +6 and 2 at +2... so it still works fine.

Which makes slayer another good class for this.

World Walker Druid would also be a fun way of getting into the PrC.

Check out the old Castle Ravenloft module.

It is pretty much exactly this.

It works, you just have to take a second to state how you use it.

You can activate/deactivate the Ring as a free action at will, so you can do it just fine by deactivating it to cast your spell then activating it again before the end of your turn.

A trade note from a temple of Abadar is also a possible option, in a civilized kingdom.

Although, 50 coins is one pound... so that is pretty much going to be your baseline.

If you are not bound to divine... Staff Magus.

Flavor it as him calling on Nethys to give him his power...

Then take the Evangelist prestige class as soon as possible to keep getting your benefits, some actual divine abilities, and more skill points.

No. In PF, multiple spellcasting classes (exception being prestige classes) don't stack spells/day and spell level access.

If you had a 7th level cleric and 6th level warpriest, you would have:

4-1st level cleric spells
3-2nd level cleric spells
2-3rd level cleric spells
1-4th level cleric spell
Plus one spell of each level from the domain list.
All using a Caster Level of 7 for any level based effects


4-1st level cleric spells
3-2nd level cleric spells
From Warpriest, using a Caster Level of 6 for any level based effects.

They don't stack the caster level together, even being from the same divine list, at all.

As far as BAB and Saving throws: BAB +9; Fort +10, Ref +4, Will +10
(Not including stat bonuses to either spells/day or BAB/saves)
You would also have 2 separate pools of Channel Energy, one at 4d6(cleric) and one at 2d6(warpriest, which uses 2 fervor to create)

Like I said in my post... I am not saying it is not possible to swap places.

I am only saying that it is impossible to do it BY THE RULES using only 5ft steps, while in combat.

So long as player D was willing to either use a withdraw, or take the AoO, the situation is perfectly within the rules.

1: Two PC in a closed room can swap their places any time they want, as unless they are fighting each other they aren't in combat, so the combat movement rules aren't in play. You can use the squeezing rules if you have to (such as if their allies are in combat outside). The rules are open during non-combat rounds, and only really crystalize in order to handle combat. Out of combat narrative they can do whatever you want them to do as a GM.

2: Yes, if you ready to disrupt a spellcaster, all they are doing is explicitly allowing the use of the trigger "before he finishes his spell, I hit him while he is in the middle of the motions".

The reason the original doesn't work like it was wanted to is that in a turn based game, you have a "movement phase" and an "attack phase" unless you have an explicit ability to blur those lines (spring attack, trample, ride by attack, etc.)

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I think they are maybe mashing some things together.

In 5E, allies do count as difficult terrain. It is possible they or the GM, plays both.

However, in PF, the only rule in the book containing moving through a square containing an ally is the one quoted above.

CRB Combat chapter:
Moving Through a Square

You can move through an unoccupied square without difficulty in most circumstances. Difficult terrain and a number of spell effects might hamper your movement through open spaces.

Friend: You can move through a square occupied by a friendly character, unless you are charging. When you move through a square occupied by a friendly character, that character doesn't provide you with cover.

Opponent: You can't move through a square occupied by an opponent unless the opponent is helpless. You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty. Some creatures, particularly very large ones, may present an obstacle even when helpless. In such cases, each square you move through counts as 2 squares.

Ending Your Movement: You can't end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

NN 959...

The game is a simulation. There are obvious gaps in its ability to mimic real life.

In real life, 2 people can fight side by side in a 5 foot hallway. In PF, that is not allowed -by the rules of this particular simulation-, without swarmfighting, or another ability to share a space.

For what you want to argue, you must also allow someone to move 10 ft, then attack, then move another 10 ft as well without the normal feat chain to do so (Spring Attack).

PF lets you move action, standard action, and swift action in a turn. In order to move any distance, and then attack, you must stop the move action. That is the limiter on turn based systems.

Is it realistic, no. I prefer 5E DnD for that, as you can always get a full movement and a full attack in a round, and attacks can be taken at any point in the move and even at different points if you have more than one attack.

But he is asking for actual rules in PF, and for what he wants, there is a Feat (Swap Places), or a readied action for one player and a withdraw action for the other if he is trying to avoid the AoO, or merely a readied action and a move action for the other if he is ok taking the AoO.

I think possibly the place it went wrong is your expectations as a GM not meshing with the expectations of the players for what kind of game would be run.

You had this story you wanted to tell, and you wrote it out. Then you let some other people create the main characters for your story, and they had only the slightest reasons to be in that story and would have maybe suited another story better.

The best GM I ever had for homebrew campaigns didn't write anything out really before we built our characters.

He had a world setting that they had played in with 3 rotating GMs for so long that the world was in motion.

He typically sketched out 3 very vague plotlines that would happen in the world, and then asked people (usually while another game was still running) to build characters for this one. Once they had characters made, he would have an idea of which plotlines they would likely take. He fleshed out the most likely more, and the other two a little.

In the first session or two, we would run across hooks for all 3, then get in some random encounter that lasted the remainder of the session once we had chosen the one that we wanted to jump on.

That bought him more time to flesh out that one.

In my experience, players do one of two things, depending on the group dynamic. The all make special snowflakes that have no ties to each other, or they make a decent team because they have all played together before.

The first is a nightmare to homebrew for, you are best off having a vague plot, running some generic encounters out of a pre-made adventure until they "gel" as a party, then you can actually get them in the story once they are in with each other and you know how to hook them in.

The other, is hard to start but easy later, as you can see the way this team is built out so once you get them hooked into the story as a team, they will run with it.

This is why so many APs are sub-par, because lots of them don't have any other branches once you are on the railroad, and very little time to justify why you would have gotten on it in the first place.


The problem is that T cannot stop moving to make an attack from a square that already contains an ally. You cannot end your movement in an occupied square without something saying you can.

The readied action you proposed for I ready to move when he attacks would never be able to occur because to step up and attack places him in your square when he attacks.

Even with the trigger being attack instead of move, he can't stand there to make his attack so it can never happen per the rules.

Per the rules, there is no legal way to do this short of the Teamwork feat created to do exactly this.

Player D can't 5ft step back because he ends in an occupied space.

Player T can't 5ft step forward because he ends in an occupied space.

Readied actions do "interrupt" whatever their trigger is, so neither step can be used as a ready trigger, as that just reverses who is moving into an illegal square first.

The only way for those characters to legally swap places without either provoking is for the one in front to take the withdraw action, then get behind the other.

Or to have the Swap Places Teamwork feat.

Now, someone has pointed out that by changing the trigger from "when player D moves" to "when player D moves behind me" that you interrupt his movement, step into his place, and he is then free to finish his full movement from the withdraw action, which could include stepping back up behind his ally.

Barring another feat or ability in the mix, one of these 3 things has to happen: the lead player takes an AoO, the lead player gives up his standard action, or both players need to invest in a Teamwork feat.

Present the alternative to him of getting wild shape with a single animal and treating his ranger level as his druid level.

If he is still in on that idea, then possibly expand it to 10 minute increments up to the normal time limit instead of hours, and definitely not at will.

He is giving up the ability to have 2 characters on the board, for the trade off of having only one character to spend money on.

I would allow it myself with the above restrictions, but not at will.

Identical mooks split into groups of 2-4 depending on how many there are total, anyone special (caster, boss, troop captain) with different stats/spells gets their own turn. This avoids the "2 people go, then 8 guys slaughter one pc, then the rest of the party goes" issue. I have different sets of mini for each type of enemy or for each group if they are all identical.

For table games, I have notecards with AC, Saves, HP, stealth, perception, and attack/damage totals on them for each group/type of enemy, as well as ones for the characters. I also have them roll 5 sets of initiative down the right side, and randomly choose which initiative roll each combat uses beforehand.

I can organize them in advance, asking players to roll me a d20 and adding the bonuses myself for things like perception or stealth if they typically send a scout to sneak ahead so they don't know what they are rolling for, usually at the end of the last combat to have them ordered while I am describing the next scene.

It lets you transition from narrative to combat smoothly.

"You come upon the smoking remains of a campfire, with signs that the camp was broken quickly. (Player 1 and 2) notice something rustle in the brush, but the rest of you are surprised as an arrow flies out at (player 3). Player 2, even though you both noticed the attack coming, you are reacting quicker than player 1, what do you do?"

For surprise rounds I usually also only give them about 10 seconds to answer, before I treat it as a delay, (positioning and enemy descriptions/clarifications excepted). They all know this ahead of time, and it keeps people paying attention even when they aren't acting, knowing that they will go into delay if they aren't ready quickly IRL. (Once again, clarifications and spell/ability lookups excepted, as in: I want to cast this spell I need to double check the AoE though to make sure I only get enemies and not allies)

The problem is that they still have total cover from you.

You would have to have some way to see through the wall, in order to attack them.

Other than that, with all that it takes to get there, you should be able to do it.

And, unless they could see through the wall back to you, they should be denied dex to all attacks from those whips until they learned to stay far enough from the wall you can't reach them.

Based on the various dev comments that not being able to see the attacker means that you can't "effectively react to them".

If you want to actually balance it out...

Craft reqs: Reloading hands or an unseen servant spell, and whatever other reqs the Bandolier has.

If it reloads more than one shot in a round, then it should be at least 7.5k.

If it only reloads 1 shot in a round, then I would put it at 3000 for not using a swift action and also not taking your belt slot like the Bandolier.

You are correct. There is no knowledge roll that will tell you what the guy walking down the street in front of you has as his class.

Racial abilities should be under Knowledge Local.

Class abilities should as well, but only if you have something to tell you what class that PC/NPC is, as many of them have no outward sign.

A guy in leathers with a rapier could be a bard, a rogue, a swashbuckler, a fighter, hell... even a barbarian.

Until you have something to guess at what "class" an individual is, there shouldn't even be a roll to get anything other than visuals.

For example, even once they enter a rage, you don't even know for sure what they are. They could be a ranger, a skald, a barbarian, a cleric, an inquisitor... so that level of knowledge check is probably not settled by a dice roll at all.

That said, religion to get an idea of what divine casters are capable of, arcana for arcane, etc. is reasonable.

So far as race building... Midgard has a decent playable minotaur PC race, although the incredible overvaluing of strength in the point system makes the -4 dex and -4 cha too much.

Possibly, look into the Skinwalker abilities (notably the boar who gets a gore which could be subbed for a bull, and they can be in hybrid form all the time).

So far as class.

A Primalist/spelleater Bloodrager.

I personally like the Arcane bloodline, as it makes it harder to cast around you and gives you disruptive and spellbreaker without being a fighter, and extra AoO's specifically for casting.

Also, free blur, haste, displacement, prot arrows, or resist energy for each specific fight are amazing.

Then, you can self-heal with spellslots, if you want to not really be a "caster", but more that you are incredibly tough and resilient, as your magic is really just more hitpoints.

Warpriest is also a good class for this. You can have thunder and Fang at level 3 regardless of race.

1st: two weapon fighting 1st level feat; weapon focus Earthbreaker bonus warpriest.

3rd: bonus combat feat - Thunder and Fang, 3rd level feat -Weapon Focus klar .

plus, self buffs as immediate and the scaling klar damage is a nice thing.

EDIT: Noted the BAB for weapon focus point. Switched TWF and WF

Stats: 20 pt buy, no racials chosen.

Str 16
Dex 15
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 8

Garuda Blooded Aasimar would be one of the best choices, giving you
Str 16, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 8.

I always ask this. If the spell wasn't cast, or if the save was made, would the damage happen? If so, it is spell damage. If not, it is it's own damage.

Just like sneak attack. Sneak attack damage isn't it's own damage source, it is an add-on amount on top of the normal attack damage, and even shares the same damage type (B/P/S) of the weapon used to perform the attack.

I would say that it works, with a good portion of that being that the spell level determines the damage of the burning each round, and also because to douse the flames uses the original spells DC. It is very clearly based on the spell as the source of the damage to me.

For clarity, Burning Magic does nothing for spells like Scorching Ray or Fiery Shuriken, as it specifies you have to fail a save in order to catch fire. So, only spells that allow a save, (and would negate the extra burn and the daze effect on a successful save) are ever going to be important.

The result of abilities that stack together to be very effective, just like many spells with saving throws. They are commonly more effective than attack roll spells, especially with both a class feature and a feat used to enhance them.

Your understanding of the ranger combat styles is correct, and you do still have to meet the Weapon Focus pre-req for point blank master even as a style feat.

If you have both classes... you have the feature still.

Archetypes only modify the class they modify, they do not change abilities granted by other classes unless specified or FAQ'd to do so (such as the bloodline abilities of sorcerers sometimes applying to all spells cast even from other casting classes).

I think there is a limit to what spells carry over between games.

However, for the purposes of making them easier to track, buy wands for 2PP of the basics (Shield, Longstrider, Lead Blades).

Then invest in one point of UMD so that you can at least roll until you get it or it comes up a 1 (which still lets other people try to work it for you).

I only mark them off once I actually burn the charge from the stone, instead of when I originally activate the wand (provided it isn't the last charge).

I would say Weapon Finesse, Agile Maneuvers, and Combat Expertise should all be free (however, any feat with one of them as a Pre-req now has BAB +1 instead). Power Attack, Deadly Aim, Piranha Strike should be granted with BAB +1 (i.e. 1 stage of formal weapons training).

Shadow Strike should not necessarily be granted free, but instead the precision damage restriction should be relaxed if you have the proper vision for the lighting conditions (i.e. if you have darkvision or low light vision you ignore the restriction for those light levels). The feat should still be used to remove the restriction for things like blur, displacement, etc. where concealment is granted for something other than light levels.

Strike Back should be a valid condition of a readied attack against natural weapons, but should still take a feat for manufactured weapons, but I would remove the BAB req.

There are a TON of pre-req feats that do nothing for later feats in a chain. Combat Expertise being an obvious culprit. Using that feat actually makes every other maneuver worse. Same with Power Attack. (since all penalties on attack rolls apply to maneuvers)

Tripping Strike has Imp Trip as a pre-req, and the reason behind it can be anything.

In order to trip, you normally have to sacrifice an attack, in this case you are so good at it that you get to do it for free anytime you land a particularly good strike (crit).

However, as an add-on, it doesn't get its own roll with attendant bonuses, you just trip exactly as well as you crit. Whatever that number is.

In the same manner that I wouldn't expect to add another +6 to my Bullrush total from my shield slam (+4 feats, +2 Dwarven racial sub for stability), I wouldn't expect to add my bonuses from my feats to an add-on trip.

However, if that is the ruling handed down, it just makes my characters better than I thought.

@ Darksol,

It doesn't forfeit attack bonuses, only bonus -Attacks-.

Whirlwind Attack is one attack at full bonus against anything you threaten.

If it was designed to do what you are arguing, it would say "you also forfeit any attack bonuses or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities."

So far as the above build, either a Two Handed Style or a Gorum Style can get those feats in ... so far as Combat Reflexes you can get it at 8, not really any sooner. You can take either URogue or any fighter class after level 7, although I would still go to 8 for the other talent.
That would get you either more sneak attack or more feats, depending on what you want.

This is the same as Shield Slam, which uses the Shield Bash Attack roll as the total for the Bull Rush Maneuver check.

You do not get to add bonuses that would be applied to a straight maneuver roll, you use the full total of you attack roll (or crit confirmation in the case of Tripping Strike).

However, it does not have the same limits of the combat maneuver either, so far as I read it.

Try a Dwarven Slayer Reach weapon user.

Traits Glory of Old, whatever else.

Use the Dorn Dergar

Str 16 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 6. (20 pt buy)

1: Power Attack
2: Cleave,
3: Goblin Cleaver
4: Rogue Talent, Combat Feat: Surprise Follow Thru
5: Orc Hewer
6: Cleaving Finish
7: Gr Cleave
8: Talent:
9: Imp Surprise Follow Thru

Now, you get attacks on every enemy within range at full BAB (provided you continue hitting, full BAB decent str and study means you should), and after the first they are denied Dex and subject to sneak damage.

Surprise Follow Thru and Imp Surprise Follow Thru do NOT require you to be a half-orc, even though they are listed in that race section in the ARG.


You can cast a one round spell, which is a full round action, by using the Standard Action Option of (Start/Complete a full round action).

So, in that one specific case, you can start casting a full round action and also more a double move over the course of 2 rounds, instead of one round.

It is a rare corner case, and typically most people don't do it since it allows a 1 round spell to be interrupted before it completes, which is not normally possible without a readied action on the enemies part.

Usually I only see it done when there is an environmental effect in place that makes standing still for a whole round not viable.

So far as removing Dirty Tricks, each condition is separate, so you would take a different action to remove each.

For reference, I have a Skulking Slayer 7/Lore Warden 5 in PFS play.
Stats started at Str 17, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8

Lore Warden 5 give +2 static CMB/CMD, and Weapon Training to use Gloves of Dueling for a total +3 (Use Flails, Heavy Flail is d10 19-20x2 weapon, close to greatsword damage, and whip/scorpion whip is in the same group for later).

Dusty Rose Ioun Stone in a wayfinder gives another +2.

PFSFG Dueling enchantment (+1, grants a Luck Bonus on all CMB with the chosen weapon equal to double the enhancement bonus) so a +1 weapon give +3 total to CMB with the weapon, +2 gives +6 total, etc.

He has full capabilities for Dirty Trick, Trip, and decent Steal, Reposition, Drag (Drag and Reposition can be done using a weapon with the trip property, and Steal can be done with Whip at -4, notably his +3 Dueling Scorpion Whip to do them at range so they don't provoke)( +9).

Skulking Slayer adds +1 to Dirty trick for each sneak die(+4), and +1 1/2 for Steal(+6). Stacks with Scout, so when you charge, you get to sneak attack.

There is a Feat that adds sneak dice to CMB if you are flanking or denied dex. (+4)

UnRogue Debilitating Strike lowers AC, so also lowers CMD. (-4)

Surprise Follow Thru and Imp Surprise Follow thru are wonderful. Since they are denied dex, their CMD is lowered.(-Dex Mod)

Power attack the first guy, then cleave into his friends and blind them.

Also, Cleave doesn't require you doing damage, just a melee attack on each target. So, you can technically trip them all, and proc a free attack from GR Trip, to make the secondary targets both prone and blind on a cleave since surprise follow thru denies them dex. Requires Combat reflexes and a decent dex. (-4 CMD from prone)

Power Attack is your damage dealing win button for plain old hitting things, with a 2 handed weapon. And being Str Based, x1.5.

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