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I realize what I might say may make me a pariah: PLAYtest the new game. I don't have the disciplined mind or industry exposure to quantify a valid playtest, or prove something wrong in gameplay before I see it (barring somewhat obvious problems). In lieu of these things, my gaming group trusts in what made us sit at the table in the first place: fun and fantasy. Just recently, my players were envious of the elven wizard who blew-up enemy ships and crewmen in short order. They remembered, however, that she played an evoker, who should likely give spotlight to the fighter during melee, and other specialized events. We DID wonder if the ship combat scene was disproportioned. We reinvestigated it, and found out that the players had fun, took significant losses to items and health, and uncovered important information as a result of their sacrifices. A key evil group was unveiled, and I believe that the PCs will be more cautious about this group as a result of the heavy combat sequence, ergo, I'm happy about it! I ran no Pareto chart to compare damage vs. levels, nor indexed feats by how loathesome they seemed. They players will tell me if they enjoyed the game, even if it is 100% scientifically sound at creation, because no strategy survives first contact. Let 'em play, and report. Thanks, Greg. I wasn't sure how to handle the adventure underwater, especially since some players never even tried playing on a boat! Wolfgang's article on underwater play really helped out, and we shared bits of it. In Razor Coast, please tell me I can find some new familiars/animal companions specific to the locale? Plleeeaaasssseee? Hmmm...but then, if you and Nick keep going the way you have started, we might get piranha (+3 Initiative Underwater?) familiars.
Absosmur...waitaminute.
Zorg wrote:
Oh- and the ability to blow-up stuff with awesome magic, charm people, raise ded, and that stuff, too. I spent 6 years for two degrees and an MBA- I just make sure Wal-Mart gets its Drain-O on time. I'd like to see something about aquatic familiars for wizards and sorcerers. Nicholas Logue mentioned something about an otter who offers a reduced penalty for underwater combat and casting. More thoughts to flesh out this (or other) idea(s)? C'mon- the elven wizard in the party is my wife! If I can't satisfy her, you guys gotta help me out! Waitaminute...
PLAYTEST My group assembled with the goal to mix Pathfinder Alpha 1.1 & Sinister Adventure Indulgences. We only played a little bit of the game during our meeting time, but here're highlights: 4 party members are:
Used the plot device that this group works for the Sea Spider Trading Company, and has worked together for years. Although we start at 7th level, I have full expectations to purchase the Razor Coast. Sharing this idea, the group agrees that having "prequel" adventures at 4th level would be fun and make the book more useful, perhaps. If not, I'll play with CR. SPOILERS***** I wanted to see players' reactions to the new skills system, as well as set the tone early. Sucessful Perception checks showed a small boat off port, near shore. Closer inspection by the mage showed that three men were chumming, but they had no nets. Party investigated. Secretly, these men were devotees of Dajobas, fanatic to the point they cut off the tips of their fingers to bleed blood for the blood god while chumming for an audience with the toothy beast. Bewildered and not sure what to make of this scene, the lost time allowed another ship to skirt the players' ship. This was the customs ship described on p. 3. Thinking the PCs were party to these blood-letting cultists, the customs officers attacked the ship. WHOO!-HOO! The magic flew, and it was awesome. The evoker acted like the ship's main cannon. Blast- Crrrack- Boom! The cleric made good use of his domain abilities, although the player was a bit upset. He picked the Water and Weather domains from his Pathfinder deity, Gozrah. Many of the domains' special powers were too similar. Again, Nick, if you have any suggestions, lemmie know! Would Pele fit as a proper diety for a dwarf, like the whole mountains and fire-forges, etc.? The halfling made good use of the bind action, especially as a cloaked duelist. He was very excited to sidestep issues about his size when binding as a combat move, too. To summerize, the PCs uncovered the tentacle-suckered inspector, and his crew of Harthagoa-pledged souls (my idea). This damned crew was actually looking to take-out the chummers,and ran into (almost literally at on point) the PCs. The chummers captured a druid- Old Edigar, whom the PCs will meet momentarily (did the customers crew know he was on board the boat?!). The customs crew dispatched the chummers (sort of like the current poll :( ), but sank it. The PCs saw a body lightly floating and active, and pursued it beneath the waves. There, they meet the old half-elf, who is badly wounded at the time. The party mage is able to cast some magic for some, but Edigar casts mass countenance of the deep for the rest of the party. The treasure-hunter rogue is very excited about this idea. His eyes catch some treasure beneath some coral, and starts pulling and tempting the rest of the party. Jab'roth intercepts the group, and asks about Edigar, who has since disappeared. Lots of questions are asked and a few answered. Left alone, the one rogue draws closer to the coral bed, and a upsets the Sahuagin Shark Raiders. This evil group was sent here to these blood-swept waters to see who was calling their master, Dajobas. I wanted to fight to be quick but powerful. I reduced the number of riders and sharks, but gave Katanga cleric levels and the feats Chosen of the Shark God and Blood Hunter, which were...simply awesome. The feats made sense to his presence here, and made him seem more powerful. The players got a real sense that the water denziens were playing havoc with them, and would rend them. This combat took almost as long as the ship-to-ship-to-ship combat earlier, mostly because the casters wanted to try out different spells underwater (which they planned on trying, after my prep work before the game). We ended the day with the conclusion of this victory. The PCs think that the shark raiders must have gotten Edigar, eather as food or as a prisoner. That they didn't think the shark-devotees would have simply devoured the druid means I'm not being brutal enough! Mwwaaahhhh! The next session will start with the speech from Jab'roth... We had fun! The biggest plea for help came from the wizard, who wants a powerful water-based familiar, or familiar-enhancing feats, like those in the PHB2. She currently has a sea turtle (no stats on it as a familiar that I could find), so in addition to its normal animal and familiar based bonuses, I ruled that it grants her a +2 AC bonus. Too much? Not enough? Better familiar? If she were a lower level, she wanted an otter, but there, I'd have no idea what kind of special bonus to grant. Nick or Greg, can you help with this, too (water familiars in general)? Thanks in advance. Our group meets in two weeks (April 20th). I'll post more then, because this adventure has been very fun, very dark (partly my doing, partly Greg's, and partly Nick's, I'd imagine), and a great playtest of the Alpha 1.1 rules. Making the NPCs was an easy thing, especially with the new skills system in place. I appreciate comments and direction! Zorg wrote:
With an 18 Intelligence, and a class designed to do lots of stuff, I see this as equally balanced. Just how many skills SHOULDN'T a genius-level rogue have? It's like saying that Hawking is too smart- we should do something to dumb down his intellect a bit. It's an 18! Rogues START with 8+ skills. It's like bemoaning an 18-Strength Fighter. I see nothing wrong with those high number of skill points. What, however, was the trade-off to put the 18 in INT over...Wisdom, say? That's where role-playing comes into play... On Sunday, our gaming group came together for play. The fun task at hand was two-fold. First, try the material purchased through Nicholas Logue’s new “Sinister Game” company. As the DM, I bought the first wave of Indulgences, and specifically wanted to see players’ takes on Greg A. Vaughan’s “Blood Waters” adventure and Craig Shackleton’s “Art of the Duel.” Secondly, I wanted players to create characters knowing a bit about the “Blood Waters” scenario, and using the new Pathfinder (Alpha 1.1) RPG. The following briefly summarizes our exploits. Our group’s adage of, “when in doubt, pick a human” ended. The biggest draw was the additional bonus and how the racial benefits were re-packaged. We almost had a ferocious Half-Orc, but the idea was dropped in lieu of a skill-focused thief. Choosing classes seemed easiest, since we decided we’d like to try each of the four initially presented. We all read a part of Wolfgang Baur’s “Death Beneath the Waves,” which helped us flesh out characters a bit more. Some specific influences were the cementing of the rapier-using swashbuckler, a trident wielding dwarf, and a low-encumbered mage. Comments about this article were well-received too, except fro the mage player. She would have like to see more spells, more familiars specific to the sea, and alternatives to the water-logged paper spellbook. I think all three suggestions make sense. The fighter-turned-rogue also liked understanding more about how weapons and armor function (or maybe better said, DON’T function). I had to keep some of the article from the players, since it detailed some other NPCs and adventure kick-offs. 1. The cleric liked being able to heal more often, but felt that some of the domain powers were too similar (note that the buoyant Dwarf selected the Water and Weather domains.) Nick, if you read this, please help create some more inspiring water deities with nifty domains ala PRPG.
On Sunday, our gaming group came together for play. The fun task at hand was two-fold. First, try the material purchased through Nicholas Logue’s new “Sinister Game” company. As the DM, I bought the first wave of Indulgences, and specifically wanted to see players’ takes on Greg A. Vaughan’s “Blood Waters” adventure and Craig Shackleton’s “Art of the Duel.” Secondly, I wanted players to create characters knowing a bit about the “Blood Waters” scenario, and using the new Pathfinder (Alpha 1.1) RPG. The following briefly summarizes our exploits. Our party currently consists of 4 characters, all level 7, including:
Players received the new skills rules the best, especially since they rolled 7th level characters. Everyone moaned about skills until they allotted them using Alpha 1.1 rules. This style should be kept, especially considering the intricate math we just easily sidestepped. The flavor remains, with no gritty aftertaste! Regarding Feats, the Turning feats were quickly noed and grabbed by the cleric after reading that the adventure is largely water based (comes off easily with less scrubbing) and that he could use it to heal! The first rogue liked the "Art of the Duel" feats, while the second rogue leaned more towards the skills-based feats and roguish talents for a scout-like treasure hunter character. The wizard wanted more familiar based feats, like from the PH2. Endurance was a feat selected and talked about a lot, especially considering the adventure set-up. Toughness feat looks interesting and a bit tougher...the wizard considered it when she rolled low a few levels. ...More to come... I cannot truely say what I would like to see in a future article. I am impressed with what I learned. I simply encourage Rambling Scribe to keep up the good work and hopefully he can share more about what he knows, then adapt it to gameplay. Seriously, I loved the work, and re-read the article from a historical point of view after digesting the game ramifications. Nice job, Craig! After talking with the players last night and today, here are some thoughts/concerns: 1) What happens to a wizards's spellbook underwater? I'm currently looking into this situation... 2) We are thinking that the racial favored class +1hp will be bigger than anticipated with a bump to start at 7th level. 3) What kind of classes/races (c'mon, let's use the SRD & Pathfinder) would be good for this underwater/swashbuckling adventure? My wife, who plays (and favours rouge and rogues) also like The Art of the Duel article...she may take some ideas there. Mr. Logue, be sure I'll post those results if this is the route she or another takes! 4) Another guy likes clerics, but wonders how Pathfinders deities can best mesh with a water adventure...tips? Thanks, everyone! Is anyone else planning on running Nicolas Logue's new "Sinister Adventures: Blood Waters" under the new Alpha Rules? I'd like to try it this weekend, but would greatly appreciate advice about what kind of character classes/races might do very well. I want to (1) playtest the Alpha edition, (2) "dive" into the adventure as much as-is written, and (3) entertain a party of four players familiar with the genre and twists of mad...err..genius of Nicolas Logue. Thanks in advance! I sinned, and bought the First Wave! With my players, I have discussed playing the new adventure, at 7th level. We intend to use the new Pathfinder 1.1 Alpha rules, along a fast-track advancement. Our party is less than complete, but the players have committed to trying the new core classes, but eagerly anticipate a ranger or paladin very soon, too! From what I have read, I love the quality, Nick. You should be proud of this showcase presentation. I'll very likely submit my creation for the contest, and look forward to the Character Sheet soon! Thanks! Nick- Great job! I love seeing capitalism at work. The site looks fresh and I eagerly anticipate the forums up to speed this week(?). What made the Razor Coast your first showcase? My Cthulu-lovin' players will be asking me to buy more of the insanity-in-a-can soon... I have tons more questions, but will respectfully wait until more time goes by to see what utter maddness may yet be revealed! Also, I cannot seem to register my vote in the recent poll, as a registered user. Help, please? Gotta be liking the moo-cow minotaur. I have no idea how to dumb-down its innate power level to a 1st-level playable character, though.
I'd enjoy expanding paladins beyond their lawful GOOD aspect, and include lawful neutral and lawful evil. Their proposed ideological codex is what makes them different from others. In reference to King Arthur's knights, I may suggest that many of them would be questing to regain their original status after falling from grace. Instead of good or evil themes, I propose that law and chaos would create a new element. Make items lawful or chaotic in nature, not necessarily holy or unholy (given to the cleric in most thematic cases). Imagine a lawfully-aligned weapon? How about a chaotic aligned item. Detect Chaos would balance games more than Detect Evil. Polarize a weapon, instead of blessing it. For example, a lawful good paladin could have it be a +x weapon vs. lawful evil outsiders, or re-polarize it vs. lawful-good (waitaminute- why would a LG paladin fight another LG character? Maybe same extension for a LE paladin not fight a LE BBEG?) Summation:
From the German metal band, Helloween:
KEEPER OF THE SEVEN KEYS
Make the people
Put on your armour
You hear them whispering
Watch out for the seas of hatred and sin
You're The Keeper of the Seven Keys
You can feel cold sweat
Guided by spells
Stay well on your way and follow the sign
You're The Keeper of the Seven Keys
Throw the first key into the Sea of Hate
Disease, disease, disease my friend
On a mound at the shore of the last sea
"Man who do you just think you are?
An earthquake, squirting fire, bursting ground
You're The Keeper of the Seven Keys
Thanks, everyone, for very well thought out and informative replies. I feared the backlash of anti-anti-4e, or sugar-sweet attempts to convince me that 4e is good-good. I'll check-out the EN World posting later tonight.
I consider myself a strong supporter of the local and internet gaming community. In addition to D&D (1st & 3.5 editions), I also enjoy other RPGs, most recently Call of Cthulu and OG: Unearthed Edition. I want to support D&D...but... Now, I find myself confused by what WotC is doing to my game. Yeah- it's mine; for all of the blood (stupid papercuts), sweat and spilled Coca-cola lost on the gaming table, there is a Lockean application of ownership to Dungeons and Dragons. Easpecially as a DM, I want to know what is happening! I don't have the time to read the (too?) many threads about all of the rules changes, what so-and-so designed said about the game on podcast xyz, etc. I hope to get the general (and sometimes specific, albeit limited) low-down on what my game will become in a short few months. First, let me take a stab at it (rolls...d20+2):
Some classes, like the druid and sorcerer, lay dormant in an as-of-yet undisclosed rules suppliment. Add the warlock as a "base" class. Add a leader class, too, that seems to take away the "role" playing opportunitites and make D&D classes very Marxist- know your role! Races matter, maybe more than classes. As a character advances, new things about how well they could do stuff becomes known to them, making races like a profession. The gnome bites it (for now), but we get dragon-born and tieflings out of the gate in 4E. If I play WoW, I will like D&D4, because it's been pigeon-holed into this line of thinking, with regards to class roles, and some magic stuff. I don't even know where to begin asking magical questions. I'm guessing most elves are likely to be wizards, etc. Do wizards have spell-books, or PDAs? :) Somehow, the whole game can be played using a computer now, instead of (just) paper and pencil. Losing Dungeon and Dragon magazines to online subsriptions paved the way for this several months ago. I could have a cool digital miniature for my character though, but I don't know how I'd get it (buy the PHB?). So, when I cross-reference my Forgotten Realms paperback books into D&D4, is Cyric really:
WotC seems to be proving 1) less than stellar customer service for all of the questions 2) a game aimed at young adults and/or computer saavy computer users 3) if it ain't broke, fix it, as evienced by a 5 year time table release for D&D5. I am sorry if I seem cynical. There appears to be way too many changes for this new edition to seem like the game my group knows. I welcome any helpful feedback about these changes. Having recently purchased the game, I wondered how my daughter would take to playing "Faery's Tale." I wondered if the rules system would be too much for younger children, especially combat. Combat?! I could hear my wife's voice thumping me if combat became a primary reason to play, considering the very young gaming group. Surprisingly, the children (my daughter and her friends) all had a smashing good time, (with very little focus on combat), and talked about the game still. The game really does live up to its image as a family gaming system, and reminds me of the initial feelings I had when starting to role-play...looking for the big magic thing, hiding and sneaking and solving riddles, and getting that big reward at the end. All good stuff. Check it out if you have wee-ones wanting to know how you spend those Saturday evenings at gaming groups... Since the announcement of 4E, I have stopped buying WoTC products, including M:tG and D&D. Sine then, I bought several new items that have filled my gaming sessions and players with more enjoyment. I bought the 1E PHB, DMG and MM on .pdf here at Paizo.com. Old favorites were re-enjoyed as players strolled down memory lane. I also purchased a delightful game from Firefly Games, "Faery's Tale," that my daughter and her friends (and wife) adore. That game helps me remember what roleplaying was all about when I was wide-eyed at the first magic sword my character found! ...oh, and all of these purchases cost less than $30 combined, or about the MSRP of a typical WOTC D&D resource book! Wonderful advice, folks, about the "Faery's Tale" RPG. My 6 year-old daughter will love to play it, based on how well she likes playing "Elfa," her woodland elf from AD&D 1st Ed. Additionally, things like the GameMastery Item Cards would go well to the visual stimulation of the game. I have not yet ordered "Faery's Tale," but would those typical item cards fit into the fantasy setting, or not? I look forward to doing some more reading, because I can see how this could become a family game night, and a great way to host a "Fairy" party with her friends (and like-minded parents) without subjecting the kids to movies and the typical munchkin party themes.
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