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Sydänyö's page

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I've been fleshing out the idea of the city where this campaign takes place a bit more. As I stated before, it would exist on another plane. Planes are a common thing in D&D, and in the Forgotten Realms to be specific. Yes, creating a new plane is taking a bit of creative freedom, but sometimes one has to.

Like I said before, it would act as a gateway between different worlds, or between different material, and even other kinds of planes. Khelben, from Abeir, for example has been to Oerth, so "planet-hopping" has happened before.

Anyways, this plane would consist from this one huge city, floating in this "space". The city would be built on this rock, or rather crystalline base. Above this city there would be a huge crystal with it's tip almost touching the largest tower in the center (or thereabouts) of the city.

Around the city the space would be somewhat calm, but the farther you'd go out, the more there would be disturbances. There would be lots of these crystals floating around in that space, and mining vessels - like sailing ships that sail in space - would venture out to those crystals to mine them, and to even adventure within them, killing some exotic creatures and look for anomalies and portals to distant worlds.

The species who would own and run the city would be called "mind reavers", a distant cosmic cousin of the mind flayer, who they'd resemble in part. On this small "pocket" plane, the mind reavers would be immensely powerful psionicists, getting their power from the huge psionic crystal floating above the city, as well as from crystal shards collected from all over the plane. They would keep the surrounding space of the city calm (apart from a psionic storm every now and then), keep the city anchored to this huge crystal, keep the extra-dimensional gateways open, and keep peace and tabs on everyone within the city.

There would be a ruler in the city, but he/she/it might not be a mind reaver; it would be this menacing mysterious presence, akin to the Wizard in Oz. The ruler would have this army, this elite guard, keeping the city peaceful. Other than that, the city would have a certain amount of greater houses (although I hate to call them that, as there seem to be houses in every story), who would have their own bodyguards, some even small armies, much like in Menzoberranzan, and other drow cities. These factions would often squabble, even conquer each other, and that would be allowed for one reason or another.

The defining structure in the city would be this immense tower, hundreds, perhaps thousands of feet high, in which the ruler, as well as the elite psion guard who'd keep the crystal in place and the "seas calm" would live and stay most of the time, and in the base of it there would be the elite guard of soldiers. Then there would be a tight-knit network of larger roads, back alleys, housing, and so on, with all kinds of different districts, such as market, guild, arena, rich housing, slums, docks, and so on.

One of the prominent districts would be somewhat smaller, with some kind of a special structure, and immensely high security. This would hold the gateways. The gateways would be reseved for the use of the rich and the powerful. However, out there in the sea of psionic storm there would be portals as well, and experienced captains could sail through them with their "flying" ships (which would really look like sailing ships.) These ships would then bring over people from all kinds of places, and those people would mostly stay to the docks, which would be your typical seedy place.

Of course underneath there would be a huge sewage system with catacombs and tunnels and all that goodness.

While the police force of the city would be powerful, as well as the rich factions and their guards, they wouldn't be all-powerful, and enterprising thieves and assassins would obviously thrive in such a large city as well. There would be guilds for both, as well as guilds for all kinds of classes and artisans.

Now, the "benefactor" of the player group would lead one of these prominent factions or houses in the city, but he would be very different, in that he would actually be human, and not mind reaver. However, he would, as it turns out, be an extremely powerful psionicist. Having him be human would allow the players have a bit more "warmth" towards him, and not want to rebel against him straight away.

Now, as far as the missions go, there would obviously also be the possibility that there would be small missions within the city, even venturing out on a ship to the crystals in the neighbouring sea of psionic storm, ridding the sewers of some extraplanar rats, and even take part in a faction vs faction attack. However, I was wondering how to sell the part of doing these missions on the arena, or rather in a "virtual" way.

One problem would be, how could they keep what they find as drops, if it's all virtual? I mean, of course they could simply be rewarded afterwards, but it's always more fun to loot corpses. Perhaps there would be a way of having the items materialize. Perhaps the arena would have to be for battles and more straightforward missions, much like simply for entertainment, for scientific trials and so on, and then have actual excursions to the real world, with perhaps some kind of exploding neckbands or something. :)

Anyways, this is the gist of what I'm thinking.


Vicon wrote:
Have the city and arena contain various "mercenary" parties of heroes from various dimensions/worlds/cultures -- with successful parties having the backing of patrons who want their parties to succeed and their rivals to fail.

Yeah, I was thinking of going with the kind of a Spartacus TV series competing ludus, or some kind of Hunger Games vibe. The point being that somehow the players, while they have been abducted and brought there against their wills, would start to like their "benefactor", and fight for him/her, and against his/her rivals.

Vicon wrote:
Have a popular element of your one-off adventures be parties or individual arena heroes popping up with shared or divergent goals -- some so diametrically opposed that the REAL main event would be both parties clashing for supremacy.

I was thinking of having some of the enemies, be they monsters or men, in the one shot adventures be branded somehow, or carry some marking, of some group (or a couple groups), without explaining it in detail at first. Then later the players might realize that they've been taking out the forces of a certain group.

Now, at this point, they might realize something that I also want them to uncover; they have been sent to the real world on these missions every now and then, and they could've escaped all along, but they thought it's just happening in their heads or on a virtual plane, so they never did. But now, knowing this, they might start hatching a plan to get the hell out of this place.

Vicon wrote:
...Perhaps a motive for keeping them there is one of the reasons they test various groups from certain civilizations/planes is to gauge where their armies might invade next to capture not just a handful of souls for entertainment, but a city's worth, or worse, of interesting... but conquerable (as was proven by loss in the arena) slaves. The party will stay on the treadmill if they know getting off of it too soon, or failing, could mean returning home to find it burned.

I also had the idea that these real-life incursions of the players might be some chess moves being played by the species who have abducted them, trying to gain a foothold on their home planet or some part of it, by taking out rival forces at first, then perhaps taking out the law, bribing people, and so on.

Vicon wrote:
Here are some ideas for one-night play sessions

Awesome ideas, thanks a lot!


Broken Zenith wrote:
What level are the guys? Here is a fun little dungeon crawl designed for level 1 characters. Jacob's Tower: Level 1. It completely fits the holodeck feel of the arena.

The group will be a new one, and as much as I'd like them to get a few levels rather quickly so as to get to levels where they've got a few feats and spells and such to utilize, I'd rather not start them off at higher levels. So, I was thinking level 1-3, and preferably right on at level 1, if I can figure out something fast for the first few levels to kind of wet their appetites.

The link you gave is awesome! It's exactly what I was looking for, and not only can I use the adventure itself, but it also gives me a great insight as to what kind of little adventures to make, and how. Thank you greatly.

As for the "holodeck", well, I guess it was a simple way of describing what I'm going for. It just sounds a bit too Star Trek, but I guess the idea gets through. I was thinking about the arena, and perhaps these "virtual adventures" would actually be viewed by rich people in some kind of booths, more than the entire arena. Some straight out battles and such might be shown on the arena itself, and besides that it would just act as an arena, having all kinds of spectacular fights and even just exhibitions on it.

Anyways, I'm still in the fleshing out phase of this, getting material together and so on. We'll see how it goes. :)


Hey,

So, I'm starting a new Pathfinder campaign with my friends, with whom I've played D&D 3/3.5 in the Forgotten Realms setting for years. I'll be the GM this time around, and I kind of suck at it, and I know it. So, I'll be going at it a bit differently this time.

We've never used the 1" maps and miniatures with this group; our combats have always happened in our heads. However, after having played Pathfinder with another group where we did use miniatures and squares, I fell in love with the square/miniature combat style, and quite frankly don't understand why we never used it with this group. I mean, movement becomes such a strategic decision, and stuff like charging is no longer a given, etc.

Anyways, I'm going to run this campaign with square maps and miniatures. I have a table-sized basic flip mat already, and am planning on buying a few more. I'm also going to print out some simple walls and buildings to use. The point with my campaign would be to bring this RPG as close to a board game as possible.

With that, I'm also trying to go with a very basic straightforward setting, with as short and simple "missions" as possible. The idea is to have fun one nighters, much like board game sessions.

So, the setting is this:

The players have been abducted to another plane. Whether this happens in the Forgotten Realms universe or not (we have a ton of the books so that's not a problem), it doesn't really matter, because of it being on another plane. This plane has a huge "harbour town", only the harbour isn't at water; it's a gateway to other realms.

The city is run by a powerful species, who utilize telekinetics, magic and even some sophisticated technology (think the dwemer in the Elder Scrolls), and this is simply to make them as unknown to the players as possible, so there's no metagaming. Also, to make them powerful enough so as to force the players (I hate forcing players to do anything but in this case it's a must) to stay there.

This city has a huge arena, where people go to be entertained. However, it's not just an arena. The contestants in the arena are sort of on a "holodeck", so basically they can be anywhere. This gives me complete freedom as far as these missions go. The spectators on the other hand get to watch things unfold as if it was a theater of some sort.

The missions, or quests, will reward the players with gear and money, and the city has a huge market where all kinds of stuff can be found. They're not so much slaves or captives, as they are mercenaries who are forced to stay in the city by their "benefactor".

I know my players, and they like their bling, so I'm going to try and give them as rewarding but at the same time as challenging a way to better their characters not only through levels but also through gear.

Now, I know, this is very very shallow as far as the RPG side of it goes, but that's the point. We have a great GM, who runs great, deep RPG plots. I just can't do that, but we do need some shorter distractions, so I'm going to try and give our group that.

I will also run a backplot, which has the players most likely escaping the city at some point, or something similar. However, the main focus will be on these nice little quests, and the players advancing in levels and gaining better and cooler gear and feats and so on. I'll also try and add some off-session gaming via forums, where the players can explain what they do on their off time, so they can use their professions, make gear and so on.

So anyways, I'm open to suggestions and criticism, and any kind of input. If you've got any ideas, questions, or whatever, feel free to chime in. :)


Well, I can understand why the only continuous speed boost from an item is only 10', being in a group where we rely heavily on square-based movement and a square-based battlefield.

I used to play D&D for years and years and we never used squares or miniatures. There was never any problem, but most definitely movement was never really even an issue.

Once I started Pathfinder in this other group where we use a battlemat, I've definitely noticed the advantage of having a high move speed. I couldn't imagine going back to a 20' armor, and in fact am trying to boost up my movement speed. Taking a level of barbarian and getting boots (since they stack), as well as possibly even getting a 5' feat.

Thus, 30' boots do feel a bit OP.

I ended up creating a set of boots which wouldn't have quite as high a movement speed, but would still give a nice range of bonuses. +10' continuous base speed from the Longstrider spell (used in the 5500g boots), Feather Step to ignore difficult terrain, and a very limited use of Expeditious Retreat (+10' turns into +30' for round or few rounds per day.)

Khrysaor wrote:
The item for bull strength and enlarge shouldn't be made. Belt of giant strength does the bull strength already and is covered by another formula. Enlarge person can be made permanent on anyone for 2500gp. It's listed under the permanency rules

Well first of all, and no offense, but I don't understand the concept of "don't create a new item when there's a similar item in a catalogue already." True RPG's are about freedom, not limitations, while for example computer games are nothing but limitations. The fact that there aren't more items in the item catalogues is not because they can't exist in the world, but because the publishers don't want to publish a set of a hundred or a thousand phonebooks. I know there are a couple different items which give +strength already. I just don't necessarily want to buy those, if there's a possibility of getting something way cooler.

Secondly, I don't want a completely permanent Enlarge on my character. At least with an item I can return to normal if required, and items can be traded.

Khrysaor wrote:

The goggles would be a no too. Read magic and comprehend languages are 2500gp each under permanency. Identify is the only one left and it's 8000gp to make continuous. You could make it a command word, charged per day thing like 3 times a day your glasses can use identify and they would cost you

Caster level x spell level x 1800gp x 3 / 5
1 x...

Again, I personally think the Permanency spell isn't fun at all. Items are much more so. Items can be traded, and items can't be dispelled off your character. Items can also be stolen, which makes it much more interesting. Having permanent spells on you also gives you a magical aura which you can't exactly hide at a whim. So no, not at any point will I be having anything cast on my character via Permanency. As far as Identify goes, there was another post saying it should be handled as adding +10 skill and Detect Magic, then halving the price for the skill because it's a situational use.

Those goggles, or rather glasses, will be put forth as a suggestion to our GM, as will the boots, and most likely the Enlarge+Bull's Strength as an amulet. The fun thing about these items in our campaign is that we don't buy them off some random shopkeeper. They're actually owned by some kind of "boss NPC's" that we may or may not encounter at some point, and the existence of some items we may actually know and will go after those items specifically. :)


Purplefixer wrote:

Mmmmm no. Remember that a skill bonus on an item costs 100gp x the bonus squared, so the +10 bonus from identify is worth 10k GP all on its own.

...

If the skill boost ONLY applies to identifying magical items you can cut that value in half

Ahh, so you wouldn't use the Identify spell at all, but break it into the situational skill bonus and Detect Magic? I see. OK, does it state somewhere that you halve the price of the Spellcraft +10 bonus when it's only usable for identifying your items?

Purplefixer wrote:
3750gp for Detect Magic = 22.15k GP.

Detect Magic is a level 0 spell, so it's cost is halved. It's price would then be 1x1x2000gx2x0.5, 1 for spell level since using 0 would make it's price 0. 1 for caster level, 2000g for continuous, 2 multiplier since it's 1min/level, and multiplier of 0.5 because it's a level 0 spell. Thus it would be 2000g, multiplied by 1.5 since it's an additional effect, so 3000g total.

So the price of the item would be 10000g (5000g if we halved it like you say) for the +10 skill, 4500g for Comprehend Languages, 3000g for Detect Magic, 2250g for Read Magic, so a total of 19750g, or 14750g if we halve the skill price, as you said.

14750g. Isn't that what I said in the first place? ;)


Blueluck wrote:
There are a number of exceptions to the general guideline of “Make a spell last forever” magic item pricing. The classic examples are True Strike, Shield, Mage Armor, Bull’s Strength, etc. None of those spells should be made continuous using the standard formula because each spell gives a numeric bonus which is specifically addressed in the text

You're right, indeed. That explains why for example Bull's Strength as continuous would cost 18000g, while in thruth it costs only 16000g (4x4x1000g). True Strike would be an interesting one indeed, seeing as though it doesn't really fall in any of the guidelines.

Blueluck wrote:
For other bonuses (like movement) that aren’t specifically addressed, the rule is “use the item prices in the item descriptions as a guideline”. So, basically, try to copy items that are already in the books.

Yeah... Copying existing items is somewhat pointless in that if a similar item exists already, why go through the trouble of trying to come up with a new one. Still. The +10' boots cost 5500g, and they also give +5 to a skill. That skill part alone would cost 5x5x100g, or in other words 2500g. That would leave the price of +10' at 3000g, except of course the second effect costs 1.5x, so it's not that clear. Either way, the price of +10' is next to nothing. Still, +30' is game breaking. Hard to determine the price of such an item.

Blueluck wrote:
Adding Enlarge Person probably shouldn't be done as a continuous effect, or you'll never be medium sized again. (As a GM, I probably wouldn't allow a PC to have an item of continuous Enlarge Person, just because it would be annoying.) It would make more sense to make Enlarge Person work on charges/day.

If you have a ring that makes you enlarged, you won't be enlarged once you remove it, so there's no problem with it. Also, our GM doesn't get annoyed by stuff like that, and in fact, it would fit my character and his back story. As someone said later on, enlarge can also be made permanent with a spell, so it should be quite fine to have it as a continous effect in an item.

Blueluck wrote:
As a GM, I'd allow that item. It's a bit overpriced, so you might want to use Permanency instead.

Permanency can be dispelled, and then it would be tied to a specific character. Having those effects in for example glasses would mean anyone in the group could use them. Also, as far as I know, the Permanency of Pathfinder compared to v3.5 is gimped; there's a specific list of spells that can be made permanent. Then again, we have always aknowledged that the rule book is a guide book, and it has no mind of it's own.

Blueluck wrote:
If you've thought up a custom magic item that breaks the game, it's against the rules. Period, that's it.

You can have game breaking within the rules. That's a big part of the fun in D&D; trying to find a loophole. Also, we feel like the rule book is just there to guide the GM. The motto we've always lived by is that the GM is always right, and whatever he or she decides is the rule, regardless of what any book says. Still, if something isn't listed or stated in a book, it can be frustrating for the GM to try and be fair in his ruling. That's why it's always good to ask how other people have handled things. That's why listing certain game breaking items would've been helpful, so as not to recreate them for example.

Blueluck wrote:
(I hope nobody minds me splitting my four answers into four posts. I thought it would be an easier format to discuss the sub-topics separately.)

Yeah no problem other than I don't want to make four replies, and thus had to compile them into one post. :) It's all good though.

ZZTRaider wrote:

Compare to the Helm of Comprehend Languages and Read Magic, which costs 5200gp to buy, or 2600gp to craft.

14750gp is probably fairly reasonable, in comparison.

Yeah... That item would give a continuous Detect Magic though, but I think the +9000g should cover that.

Also, not sure if there should be some kind of a multiplier for spells with a range of "personal", since often those spells are quite powerful at low levels.

Blueluck wrote:

I didn't say that a permanent Enlarge Person effect is overpowered or unreasonable, just annoying. I've run campaigns with large PCs, and I don't like it. (Athan half giant, 3.0 centaur, etc.) I'd be happy to run a campaign where monstrous PCs were part of the plan from the beginning, just like I've run all-mounted, all-small, and all-elf campaigns.

As a player and a GM, I'd rather have an item that makes me grow large only when it's desirable. Also, it would be a lot cheaper.

Well, there are most likely as many preferences as there are people out there, so we can't really follow rules based on anyone's annoyances, especially not the GM's, who's supposed to be there to help the rest of the group have a fun night. Having the effect in an item though wouldn't make it permanent. Charges per day suggests combat use only, and we do a lot of non-combat roleplaying, where being enlarged would often come in quite handy. For example, it adds to intimidate checks, and also, just as a fashion statement, is pretty damn cool. :)


Hey,

The prices for creating custom magic items are on the page 550 of the core rule book. Basically it's spell level * caster level * 2000g for continuous * 0.5/1.5/2/4 depending on duration * 0.5 if level 0 spell * 1.5 if additional effect.

So... I've been thinking of getting the Boots of Striding and Springing for my glass cannon fighter/wizard (who is going for a level of barbarian and possibly alchemist too). They cost 5500g and give +10' and +5 acrobatics.

Now, according to the base estimation price calculation for new magical items, creating a continuous effect item from the spell Expeditious Retreat, which gives you +30' speed, would cost 4000g (1 * 1 * 2000g * 2). I'm guessing 4000g would be a bit cheap for something like +30' speed? Anyone here who has allowed such an item to be made, and if so, how high did you set the price?

Also, I was thinking of these kinds of items:

Bull's Strength (2 * 3 * 2000g * 2)
Enlarge Person (1 * 1 * 2000g * 2 * 1.5 because it's an additional effect)

So an item like this would cost 30000g, not too cheap for what it does I think, but might be a fun item to have for a glass cannon fighter/barbarian -"thing" who also aims to do some sick intimidating.

Then goggles like this:

Identify (1 * 1 * 2000g * 4)
Comprehend Languages (1 * 1 * 2000g * 1.5 * 1.5)
Read Magic (1(0) * 1 * 2000g * 1.5 * 0.5 * 1.5)

This would be 14750g. Goggles that read and comprehend languages and magic, detect magic (Identify does that) and give you a skill bonus. Too overpowered, too cheap? Wasn't thinking these for myself necessarily, more like our wizard.

Are there any general rules that I've missed in calculating base prices for items? Can those prices be trusted at all? Anyone have any other game breakers they've thought up from low level spells?


Hey,

The spell Surmount Affliction (Ultimate Magic) has been discussed a bit, mainly because of the fact that it allows you to suppress certain conditions which already stop you from casting it. My own guess would be that it was meant as a preventive spell; cast it before you know a certain condition will be cast on you. In any case, apparently it's not that great of a spell, or so people seem to think.

However, what about making it into a continuous magic item? It's value would be spell level x caster level x 2000 x 4 (because it's duration is rounds.) It's a level 2 spell, so the caster level would be 3, making it's value 2x3x4x2000 = 48000 gold.

This item (a ring, for example) would then continuously suppress one of the conditions mentioned in the spell (I guess, since it most likely wouldn't suppress all of them) continuously. Or would it? Can this be done, am I missing something?

Would 48000 gold be too low a price for basically "immunity" (not immunity since it doesn't shield you against conditions, just suppresses them) against something like fear or paralyze?


Hey again,

So... I've got a fighter/wizard, whose bonded item is his greatsword. Now, due to the fact that I'm obligated to cast every spell with my bonded item either worn or wielded lest I lose my spells by failing concentration checks, my GM has ruled that I'll be casting all my spells with my 2H weapon in my hands, or at the very least wielded in one hand. Whether this is kosher or by the numbers, I don't know, but this is how we're playing it.

The question I have though has to do with True Strike. When I'm casting True Strike, which has a focus component (but no somatic or material, it's V F), do I put away my sword or can I hold it one-handed still (20STR so it shouldn't be a problem) and is it considered wielded if I do so? Would it also be possible for the focus to be crafted into, for example the pommel of my greatsword (I'm a weaponcrafter, a pretty useless ability thus far), and if so, would I still have to let go of my 2H grip to fondle the pommel of my sword?

Also, if I were to get a metamagic rod to allow me to cast spells as quickened, is there any possible way I could use a move action to move, then use the metamagic rod as a swift action (as quickened rods are meant to be used), and with it cast True Strike (I'm going to assume that using a quickened rod and casting the spell quickened by it are both using the same single swift action, since you only have a single swift action per round to use, and otherwise it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever), and then use my standard action to attack as per usual? I'm guessing the requirement to drop my 2H grip in order to manipulate the focus kind of makes this impossible, no?

Anyways, I hope someone understood what I'm saying. I don't think I managed to produce very coherent output. Ask away if something was unclear, and if any pros have any suggestions, I'd appreciate it.


Grick wrote:

I don't really follow what you're trying to do.

A) Cast quickened Mirror Strike

No. Mirror Strike will be cast on turn 1, and it'll last until the end of turn 2, which is when the Great Cleave attack will be made.

Grick wrote:

B) Standard action great cleave

B1) First attack roll: compare to the AC of two opponents within your reach. Lets say you hit both. Roll damage, and apply half to each.

B2) since you hit, Great Cleave triggers, and you can make another attack roll against a foe that is adjacent to the previous foe and also within reach, and so on.

The only thing I see happening is splitting your damage on the first attack. You would not trigger two 'cleaves' from mirror strike.

Mirror Strike would activate when rolling for Great Cleave, thus allowing you to roll against two targets. Great Cleave simply states if you hit, you're allowed to cleave. You could hit two targets, and therein lies the question, wouldn't you be allowed to have two cleaves to start off, especially since the description of Mirror Strike states that you "split a melee attack into two attacks."

Grick wrote:
And all that is assuming it works at all, since Great Cleave says "If you hit, you deal damage normally..." and splitting damage isn't normal.

Great Cleave doesn't require you to deal damage. It requires you to hit.

I know this is borderline the same as carrying a bag of rats to do a cleave bomb, but I just looked at the wording and thought there might be a loophole there. I'm not expecting our GM to allow it, but it's still a fun idea if in theory it might be "legal". :)


So, I've been looking at some fun spells for my Fighter-Wizard, and I ran into this spell Mirror Strike. I Googled for similar ideas and questions, but didn't find any, so I thought this might be a new suggestion. This is a bit of a wording-nitpick idea, something that does sort of have a logical backing of the description of the spell as well as the feat, but which still might be a tad game breaking. So here goes:

The wording of Great Cleave is as follows:

Quote:

As a standard action, you can make a single attack

at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you
hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional
attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that
is adjacent to the previous foe and also within reach.

So basically it says you make an attack (roll an attack roll), and if you hit - it doesn't state who you need to hit, which is the nitpicky part - you can make an additional attack and so on.

The wording of Mirror Strike is as follows:

Quote:

You briefly alter the flow of time to split a melee attack into

two attacks. Before the end of your next turn, when you make
your next melee attack roll, compare the result to the AC of
two opponents within your reach.

This means that at the moment of rolling for the Great Cleave attack (a melee attack roll), you would - in theory - get to compare that roll against two opponents, instead of one.

Now, I know this is dancing on the line of being ridiculous and thus people could tell me to shut up straight away, but my thinking from a logical and RP-ish standpoint is this:

Great Cleave (and Cleave) basically allow you to continue your humongous swing, a single swinging attack, slicing through enemies enough in order for the swing to continue on it's trajectory.

Mirror Strike creates two swings out of one.

While game breaking or unfair (or stupid), it would make sense to me at least from a logical PoV, that the swing that was great and massive enough to be a cleaving attack, which gets mirrored, would be great and massive enough to be two cleaving attacks.

Thus: you'd have two Great Cleaves moving on different directions! I'd still say they couldn't hit the same targets, as Great Cleave does specifically deny that (although they're basically two separate swings), but it might be a fun effect when facing opponents on both sides.

So, what say you? Have I missed something in these wordings that I didn't already touch upon, something that wasn't mentioned here but was elsewhere? What's your own take on this idea?


Far be it for me to tell anyone how to run a campaign or how to play, however... The very first thing you might want to ask yourself is this:

Are you playing with your players, or against them?

You see, the DM is all-powerful. If what drives you as a person and as a DM is to compete against your players, then it's quite easy for you to start designing encounters and campaigns in such a way that it might no longer be exactly fair. If you, as a DM, want your players dead, then they're dead, period.

If you're playing with your friends, however, and you mainly want everyone to have fun, then it's quite OK for you to "pull your punches" if you see your player group getting in over their heads.

Quite often the blame for the circumstances the players find themselves in can be found not only with the players, but with the DM, and often more so.

Sure, if a player decides, at level 1, to go challenge some dangerous looking adventurer to a fight, only to realize this adventurer was ten or fifteen levels higher than him, then you can only hope that he learns from it. However, who put the adventurer there? You see my point?

If you're playing against your players then by all means, drop dragons in front of them left and right. If you want to lead a fun campaign for your players, a campaign they'll have a chance of getting through, then you'll have to be a bit more of a mastermind.

My motto would be something like "Challenge your players. Don't kill your players."


Hey Hawktitan,

I looked at the Magus, but it didn't really convince me straight off the bat. His Spell Combat doesn't work with a 2H weapon, which makes that ability useless since my fighter is specifically a 2H fighter archetype.

Spellstrike might be fun if combined with some really nice touch spell. Not sure if it can be used with 2H weapon, though. It doesn't say, but if it's in line with Spell Combat, then he wouldn't be able to.

Also, it looks like the Magus works very nicely as it's own class, and is more or less designed to do so, with great abilities all the way to level 20, much like for example a monk. Since I'm thinking of being mainly a fighter, I don't think the Magus would be a very good multiclass option.

Also, our DM doesn't have Ultimate Magic. :(

I did look at the Eldritch Knight, but it doesn't really bring any nice class-specific abilities, and looks more like a "continuation hybrid" for both the fighter and wizard, except that taking it - while I do get access to higher level wizard spells (pointless with a low intelligence though) - I lose out on a bunch of feats through being a fighter. Not sure I'd like that one as my prestige. Pathfinder could use a few more prestige classes from D&D I think.

I wouldn't mind leveling up as a caster class though, since as a fighter I'm doing quite well atm. BAB6, STR5, MW1, WF1, WT1 gives me a hit of +14, +12 if I do a PA, +16 when charging, +14 if I charge with PA. When not charging, with Overhand Chop, Vital Strike and PA I can do a 4d6+19 damage (10STR, 6PA, 2WS, 1WT) hit (4d6+38 crit, 19+ range atm), and with Great Cleave and PA I can do 2d6+16 to as many guys in a row I can hit.

(I'm guessing I can't use OC/VS with neither cleaves nor charges.)

Add to that an initiative of 9+d20 and being a fighter doesn't suck right now. That's mainly why I'm looking into trying to become a bit more versatile perhaps via being multiclassed as a wizard. I was thinking of raising my INT by at least one anyway to get WW, so I might as well raise it even more. Would have INT 14 by level 12 I guess, so that's not horribly low.

Anyways, if anyone has any thoughts, feel free to chime in! :)


Hey,

I'm playing in a somewhat casual group (we play once every couple months or so) what could only be called a bit of a "cheesy" and min-maxed fighter, similar kind of a character I've played in one of my D&D group as well.

He's on level 6 2HF right now, human (20 14 14 12 6 8), with Dodge, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, WF, WS, Vital Strike, Improved Initiative, and has two traits; Adopted/Elven Reflexes and the other I can't remember but it also gave +1 to initiative IIRC. He uses a MW greatsword.

I'm thinking of multiclassing him to a Foreshadowing wizard, giving me two level 1 spell slots, of which one has to use a Divination spell. I'll also take my GSW as the bound item. Through being Divination/Foreshadowing wiz, I should get the ability to "pre-roll" a die three times a day, as well as get +1 to initiative and the ability to act during the surprise round.

I can then cast one of my spells via my sword once per day and I'll have two slots for my level 1 spells, one of which has to be Divination.

Good spells to go with this are True Strike (really the reason why I'm planning on doing this), as well as things like Enlarge, spells that give me double base move for 1 minute, triple carrying capacity for 2 hours, +5 initiative, and other nifty spells that should help my character as a fighter.

I'd just like to know if I've made a mistake somewhere or if I should consider doing something differently, and whether there are any Pathfinder prestige classes that would be perfect for this character, as well as if there's any gear that I should look into getting.

In general just any advice anyone has. Thanks! :)


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