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If he just stays there, he shouldn't have to make a new check.
I think in general the game is too brutal with how often you have to do opposed stealth checks and against everyone. Keeping in mind that the way stealth works, failing just once is complete failure no matter how many successes you got. So as long as the enemies have any chance at all of beating you on an opposed roll, as the number of opposed checks increases, the probability of actually going unnoticed quickly plummets to zero.
Half-Elf introduces favored class bonus, Wild-Caller, *and* Paragon Surge. It also has a side boon in that you're immune to magical sleep (eidolon goes poof if you go unconscious) that is circumstantial but really nice when it kicks in. As if that weren't enough, it also gives Skill Focus for free to kick-start your path down the Eldritch Heritage tree.
Half-Elf is the best Summoner, completely and utterly. And it doesn't have many classes where it's the best choice (largely due to humans being so easily able to steal their thunder on ANYTHING with Racial Heritage feat and/or the variant to trade the bonus feat for THREE skill focus feats gained at levels 1, 8, and 16), so I'm happy for them.
It depends on level. Later on, a horde of pouncing and smiting monsters can do pretty crazy high damage. Earlier on, eidolon-focused summoners will do the most damage. DPR isn't something you need to care too much about anyway, summoner has more staying power and survivability (the latter largely b/c he's far the hell away from danger with lots of meat shields) than most classes to drudge through a long hard fight. And plenty of battlefield control spells to pin down enemies, not to mention the eidolon if it has trip, grab, or pull with reach evolution.
Hmm, I had thought about Calcific Touch but wrote it off because of its 1/round hard limit, which is unfortunate. But I suppose powered up enough it can tear through horrible dragon Dex in a single strike.
On that note, Magus can add Wizard spells to their list at high level (or earlier via arcana) and could turn that touch into a 15-20 crit chance by delivering it through a scimitar. Might be the best way to go for Calcific Touch-based plans.
EDIT: Or, go the wizard route but after delivering the Calcific Touch if it still has dex left, rely on an immediate action Emergency Force Sphere to protect you from retribution.
Dex 1 is not paralyzed, and touch of gracelessness can't reduce it below 1.
The dragon's AC will be slightly easier to hit and his reflex will be a bit lower, and that's about it for how much touch of gracelessness will impact the dragon.
A caster abusing the hell out of Dazing Spell, Spell Perfection, and Persistent Spell to daze-lock the dragon from far far away with nigh impossible save DCs would be pretty lethal, though.
The most powerful is Master Summoner, followed by Wild Caller followed by vanilla Summoner.
My favorite would be Synthesist since it lets me make an unarmed melee character that's actually good and can fly and string combat maneuvers for free off my attacks and such. Of course, wild caller and regular summoner largely get that too, it's just not them personally that's doing it...
Yeah, Gunslinger, especially Pistolero, would be the dragon-slayer.
I think an archer ranger, perhaps with just a dip of Paladin (preferably Divine Hunter for free Precise Shot) for Smite 1/day to get +cha to attack or the exact opposite -- a Paladin archer (**not Divine Hunter**) with just a dip of Ranger for some Favored Enemy (and to avoid the Paladin's level 20 crapstone) using Smite, or aura of justice if in a party, combined with Saddle Surge and Litany of Righteousness spells. Either way, riding a flying mount via animal companion. I guess a Roc specifically in the Ranger's case, Paladin has more options.
I don't think infinite slow healing is broken.
You might be out of luck if restricted to PF only.
In D&D 3E, the Precise Swing feat (requires BAB +6, nothing else, iirc) lets you ignore non-total cover with reach weapons.
Even better is the Goggles of Foefinding from Magic Item Compendium, which only cost around 2500 gp and let you ignore non-total cover for any attack.
In PF only, best option might sadly be to go into Ranger or Zen Archer Monk so you can get IPS at 6th level without wasting two feats, though along the way you'll waste class features and/or bonus feats going either route (especially as Zen Archer; I think as Ranger w/ Archery style the only waste is the 2nd level feat, as long as you ditch after 6th level).
Isn't subtly calling someone a jerk....a jerk-y thing to do?
I was criticizing the OP's ideas, not the OP as a person, after the OP asked what people thought of his ideas. But please, continue soapboxing from your hypocritical moral high ground.
Natural Spell is the simplest and best way.
There's also more tedious methods that generally involve getting rid of all the components (Eschew Materials, the trait to get a tattoo as your divine focus...not sure if that works in wildshape..., Silent Spell, Still Spell) and/or using the Wild Speech feat (lets you speak while wildshaped).
Note that once you get elemental forms you'll be able to do verbal and somatic components again, and the materials/foci can manipulated as long as they don't get melded into the form.
Yeah, I'm fine with auto-success/failure for attacks and saves. The game already grows in power exponentially enough that a band of goblins is a speed bump to a party just 5 levels above the party for whom they're a dire challenge. No need to remove the last safeguard "giant mob of mooks" have left to at least, hypothetically, be dangerous en masse.
But fumbles are stupid and wrong.
Or you could just use feats and items to gain more revelations.
In any case, I think if anything D-C Oracle sucks the most upfront. You lose the bonus class skills. You get hit with another curse that will never get better. You lose your normal 1st level bonus spell known for one that is likely worse (or the one you lost isn't normally an oracle spell). You gain no extra goodies for all of this, you even have to wait a few levels for your first bonus revelation slot. The *only* thing you get for all that sacrifice at level 1-2 is the ability to take the Misfortune revelation with your normal revelation slot or a feat. That is all you "get."
Time has pretty terrible low level spells and a bit too many high cost / extremely uncommonly used spells, but that's its only weakness. The class skills are good, and it has a many and varied great revelations. In rough order of the best ones to the worst ones:
Temporal Celerity: Basically guarantees you'll be one of the first to act. Winning initiative is winning the fight.
Time Sight: It's the three best high level divination spells (including True Seeing, which normally has a high cost to cast) all in one revelation! What's not to love?
Rewind Time: Rerolling d20's is always a nice power to have, and this gets a few uses/day.
Time Hop: Su Teleport means instant grapple escape, and move action and lack of "this works like Dim Door" text means you can even get a spell off after using it! (unlike Sudden Shift of Wizards). Plus countless other situational uses like getting to the other side of a gate to open it for the party (or just take them with you if you can).
Time Flicker: Getting un-dispellable Blur and Blink as defensive options is a nice boon.
Speed or Slow Time: Haste is one of the best spell effects, and not on the Oracle list (Blessing of Fervor is worse for melee and better for casters).
Knowledge of Ages: Reroll a knowledge and add charisma on top of int, with cha uses/day. Practically makes you a "Lore Oracle," too.
Erase from Time: It's similar to Time Hop, one of the best psionic powers (not the revelation above). Divide and conquer enemies by sending one away for a bit, or use it an ally to get them out of danger (useful to save a defenseless NPC in an "escort mission" and such) or simply to buy some time to finish a fight and get the spell they need to cure some rapidly afflicting condition ready (since it pauses time for the target). Shame it's only 2/day and doesn't work on objects, though.
Aging Touch: Not that great, but useful vs. constructs and decent enough in most situations to justify picking it up...eventually.
Momentary Glimpse: It's a standard for a small bonus for one round. But it's still useful occasionally if you get a surprise or prep round before combat starts. I wouldn't take it, but I'm sure other people would.
...Did you notice how Time doesn't even actually have any outright bad revelations (except maybe Momentary Glimpse)? It's hard to honestly say that about any other mystery. And it's not like it avoids bad options be being completely mediocre. The first several listed are among the best revelations of ANY mystery.
So, we have moved on to RAI?
RAI: Dual-Cursed is a horrible archetype that asks you to give up a LOT just to get 2 additional revelation slots (I've yet to find a mystery w/ enough good revelations to carry it to 20 w/o running out of ones you actually want yet) and a 2nd curse which never improves (when curses are largely overwhelming and BY DESIGN tend to be a raw deal at 1st level, if anything). ...And these two new revelation options. Of which, Fortune is not that impressive and forces you to endure the suck for 4 levels before giving you the payoff. Misfortune being as good as it is, is literally the only reason most people even consider Dual-Cursed in the first place. It needs to stay as it is.
Only if you buff it as you suggest.
They didn't want to do that, as it's already quite powerful. You wouldn't be throwing such a fit about it working on the Oracle 1/day if it weren't already so powerful, and yet you think they'd give it additional self-only uses for free at 5th level on top of using it 1/day on all enemies and allies?
Time is one of the best ones, and Battle is very good for a melee-oriented Oracle...
As for worst... The only reason Heavens isn't the worst is because of the revelation that makes Color Spray remain insta-death through at least 8th level. Life is bad just by covering a bad specialty, though adding little to make it more interesting / less annoying certainly doesn't help. It just seems so inferior to a Restoration domain cleric, to boot. Outer Rifts also seems to have few redeeming qualities.... it gets Telepathy ~4 levels after an Improved Familiar could've gotten it and at level 15 it can do an AoE stun/stagger 2/day on foes not immune to fire (again, this is level 15+). That's...about it.
N N 959 wrote:
Except Fortune still has a purpose, because Misfortune only works on each creature once/day. So you take fortune to benefit yourself even more often each day.
I guess they could've combined the two together; but they wanted to make it cost two revelations. Possibly because it's a potent set of abilities. *shrug*
It's not that people come up with fumble rules just to be mean. Pretty much every time the intent was noble - make things more exciting, cause funny situations. Nothing wrong with the intent.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
The problem is coming up with a fair way to execute it.
There is no fair way to execute it. It is inherently unfair. All you can do is make just how unfair it is more or less noticeable by reducing the frequency it comes up and/or watering down the bad effects. But all that does is hide the badness, it doesn't actually solve it.
Yes, they stack. Pathfinder has rules for stacking multipliers. Basically, for all multipliers after the first one, you subtract 1 from the multiplier and add it to the base one. No matter what order you do it in, it will come out the same, as long as all multipliers are greater than 1, as they should be....
Example: Multipliers of 1.5x, 2x, and 3x all apply to your damage roll.
1.5 +1 (2-1) +2 (3-1) = 4.5x
No matter how you do it, it comes out to 4.5x damage.
Revolving Door Alternate wrote:
What book is that from, I don't remember that one.
It's from PF 10: A History of Ashes. Which, despite being a paizo product, is technically for 3.5E D&D. But...PF is supposed to be compatible with 3E, and it is a paizo product. Hence why I said, "if you can." Getting it allowed can be tough depending on how strict or open your DM is.
Being a Samsaran for Mystic Past Life would be a big help in expanding your spell list to handle more of a caster role. Druid spell list is probably your best bet for nabbing some battlefield control spells and such.
You can use the solo teamwork feats for Lookout, Stealth Synergy (or whatever it's called), and Tandem Trip to be a good scout and halfway-decent tripper. Caves subdomain as your domain choice will further help with scouting/sneaking in dungeon environments.
I don't think there's much you can translate the judgements into other roles with, other than more attack bonus for tripping...
You can make a high wisdom "casting focused" Inquisitor, you'll just be really subpar, it's not what the class is designed for. If you do so, it definitely helps to get a weapon with the Guided property if you can. It's really dumb that you're practically a cleric but still need to dip cleric to qualify for Guided Hand feat, but that's how it is.... So ask for a guided weapon.
They nerfed it. It used to be 10 + Barb level + Cha mod, so it was useful for low cha dippers and horribad for true barbarians.
Now it is 10 + 1/2 barb level + Con mod and thus horrible for everyone.
As for the dip.... NEVER as a caster, that's just dumb. For an archer, maybe. But that's the *only* useful class feature you're getting for those two levels, pretty much. For a melee character...full attacks can be hard to come by. Even if you do have pounce, the penalties to attack and AC don't seem worth it if the foe can fight back. Archers don't have to worry about the foe hitting back as much, but melee does.
Well, more specifically, not following PF rules. There's a lot of reasons rogue got horribly nerfed from 3E (along with falling behind other classes, which is like a nerf). One of them is not being able to sneak attack with flasks.
But yeah, I'm not terribly motivated to help someone beat up one of the worst classes in the game.
Drake Brimstone wrote:
Pathfinder really hates its mundanes. It was bad enough in 3E relying on the easily dispellable CL 5 or whatever winged boots. Then PF comes along and adds skill check requirements and tells the non-casters, "oh sorry, you can't train that at all until you have the item....maybe....15 min. per day isn't much practice time."
Also, Rogues can take Ninja Trick (Combat Trick) on top of their combat trick by RAW, while Ninjas cannot do the reverse. It's one of the many odd things that one class can do but the other cannot (like how ninja can get advanced talents but rogue can't get the master tricks).
How does the nemesis escape to contiue to be a nemesis without escapability?
And this is why I'd be hesitant to nerf or ban teleportation spells, I have enough trouble getting what I hope to be a recurring villain out alive as it is. Not that there aren't other ways. If you left Dim Door and such alone (as I suggested before), that can give you a pretty good head start / hiding place to run away from or then go for the (nerfed to have a multi-round cast time) actual long range teleport.
Word of Recall should really serve the purpose of the escape spell, though. I never understood why it was higher level than the teleports and restricted to only the divine casters. It exists solely to flee back home, it's much less abusive than actual teleport. I would NOT apply any of my suggested nerfs to WoR, and would even consider lowering its spell level and making it available on other lists.
First of all, there is basically two types of teleporting.
1) "Tactical" teleporting: short ranged and lower level, almost always used in combat and often simply for better positioning or to escape being surrounded. Dim Door, and such.
2) Long distance teleporting used to travel across the world in short or no time at all.
I don't think there's much wrong with 1, but 2 can be pretty powerful and definitely a game-changer. I wouldn't ban the spells, though. I would give them:
a) A cost to cast (not too high, just enough to make it not something you might prep every single day)
Combined with the uncertainties of teleporting blindly into a place you've never been, the last change largely neuters the whole "teleport in all buffed up, kill everyone, teleport out" thing completely. And again, I re-iterate, these changes would only be for "type 2" teleportation. Applying these, especially the lag time concept, to tactical teleportation would make those spells utterly useless.
Also, would I be correct in thinking you cannot do a 5' step whilst flying with the fly spell as it says "The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet" but does not say you get a listed fly speed?
No, you would be incorrect. You have a listed fly speed, thanks to the fly spell. It is 60 ft.
Would you tell the person with the fly spell he can never move more than 60 ft flying in a turn (say, with a double move) because the spell "only says you can fly at a speed of 60 ft"? Would you assume they mean 60 ft in a round as a hard cap? If you're going to be so insanely literal, speed is a distance over time, and they never specify the time interval. For all we know, it could be 60 ft over a minute! I mean, it's just so unclear, what's a person to do?!
....Use common freaking sense. That's what.
The OP specified a "monk build," so I thought I had to take a level in the class for it to count. And the idea with a monk 1 / something 19 is to get a ton of natural attacks and pounce, so you can full unarmed + 2ndary naturals every round. You focus too much on unarmed base damage, it's more about the dakka ("rate of fire", so to speak).
That said, MoMS* Monk 1 is a decent dip, albeit a weaker option than staying straight class, for a druid. As can be said of anything that loses a CL. But...you get wis to AC, you get to skip straight to Snake Fang if you do your dip intelligently and get a 2nd style later to stack with it, and stunning fist. If you plan to take the Feather (Animal) subdomain and Boon Companion anyway, you have a spare lost druid level to make up for anyway, so only casting and wildshape falls a level behind (and wildshape has diminishing returns past level 8 and stops improving completely at 12 anyway). Any levels beyond Monk 1 offer much less returns for an exponentially steeper cost (more lost CL, "quadratic wizards" and all that).
And how is Synthesist not synergistic? It literally -- right from level 1 -- DOES NOT CARE about Str or Dex, and doesn't need much Con, either. You want high Cha, beyond that it's largely personal preference. A lot go high int, but there's nothing wrong with high wis instead. You get pounce and natural attacks right from level 1 to combine with unarmed, you get wis to AC to cover not being able to wear armor...it's about as good a combo as the monk/druid was. Better initially, a bit weaker later on.
Monk 1 / Synthesist Summoner 19
Monk 1 / Druid 19.
Backstory: Johnny really wanted to be a badass martial artist growing up and quit school to enroll in a dojo at age 12. By age 13, even at his still young age he realized how pathetic and worthless monks are in a fight and [was seduced to the dark arts of summoning] / [went to go be a hippy in a druid grove] so that he could actually beat stuff up unarmed.
Robert A Matthews wrote:
I don't see anything in the description of charge that says you have to make the attack at the end of your movement. It merely says you must move to the closest space from which you can attack your target, it does not say you have to stop there. So your moving mount would not stop you from making an attack as long as you make it from the closest possible space per the rules.
I thought that stopping and then making the attack was implied. Isn't that the whole point of Ride-by Attack, to continue to move after making the charge attack? And the closest space that you can attack from will likely be different for the rider and his mount, also causing an issue.
@Mojorat: I was not aware of that rule. I thought the rider counts as occupying all the spaces his mount does, so he retains the "donut hole" where he can't attack with his reach weapon. If what you say is true, mounted is the best thing ever for reach; you have no close space you can't attack but retain the long reach. That just...doesn't sound right.
Robert A Matthews wrote:
If you want a really funny broken thing about charging characters check this out: You can ready a brace weapon against a charge as soon as the charging character gets within 10 feet you take your readied action then 5 foot step forward so you are 5 feet away and they can't attack you with their reach weapon. Really cheesy I know, but technically legal.
That's funny, but certainly not broken. I do stuff like that all the time, with or without brace. In order for the "cheese" to work, you have to go before the foe AND have him play right into your readied action script. It's not cheese, it's tactics. Sometimes rushing in full offense is a dumb move, shocking I know. Charge is very powerful especially with pounce, it should have some countermeasures against it. The game rewards offense-mindedness plenty, it's nice once in a while for a patient, defensive strategy to be useful. I go first, ready to step inside hothead's reach and stab him. Hothead charges, I do as I prepared to, he's hurt and surprised and loses his turn. Next round, oh look at that! My ready set my init to juuuuuust before his. I get a full attack on his sorry -2 charge penalty to AC'd ass. :D
I could see an issue where you're using a lance and thus have greater reach than the mount. A charge is supposed to involve an attack at the end of it. But, if the mount stops 10 ft away so you can attack, it can't attack so it wasn't a valid charge. But if it closes to 5 ft...you're supposed to deliver the attack at the end of the charge, so you shouldn't be moving afterwards. Ride-by Attack probably fixes this issue, but not *every* lance-using (or other reach weapon-using) mounted charger will have that feat.
Perhaps that would cause a problem? I don't know, in any case sounds like the stupidity of pure 100% RAW that I avoid anyway.
Yeah, you seem to basically have it right. Imp. Precise Shot is a great feat, it removes a lot of annoyances, which is why rangers and zen archers getting it 5 levels early is so nice.
If you allow D&D 3E rules material, note that the Magic Item Compendium has a 2500 gp face slot item, the Goggles of Foefinding, which eliminates any cover bonuses (other than total cover) a target may have. A very affordable and handy purchase for any archer or reach weapon user. 3E also had a feat, Precise Swing, that eliminated the soft cover bonus foes got when you used a reach weapon (but didn't benefit ranged attacking).
How it works:
You initiate the WWA, do not attack the enemy closest to you (or one of them, if two or more are equally close), and then take a move action, attacking every other enemy you come within reach of once.
It's a decent combo, still not amazing for its level and the massive amount of feats required, and you're still better off focus firing on each enemy until they drop than spreading out the damage. But certainly nifty. Sort of like the 3E Dervish prestige class's dervish dance + WWA, I loved that combo.
Each attack is a separate opportunity, as LK said. Also check out Come and Get Me rage power, which works similarly. If a full attack was only "one opportunity," it wouldn't actually work: "...every attack against the barbarian provokes an attack of opportunity from her, which is resolved prior to resolving each enemy attack."
Snake Fang is the same way, just worded differently (because RPG designers never seem to use identical wording for anything ;-) ). Each attack is a provoking opportunity.
Wow, people sure like to have it both ways.
1: "We should use strict RAW and its insane declaration that adding options and making no actual changes counts as altering the class feature if it says it modifies the existing feature!"
2: "You don't think the intent was just to keep people from giving up something twice, or 'making a check your ass can't cash,' so to speak?"
1: "No! If it says it modifies the class feature, it won't stack! Even if it's just adding stuff!"
2: "Well, Beastmorph DOES NOT say it modifies mutagen. By RAW. Most sacred and holy RAW."
1: "Well...I really don't think that was the intent. We should use RAI."
2: "You mean that it's not replacing anything, so it should be cool?"
1: "No! That they totally meant to have that line in there."
*MASSIVE eyeroll and facepalm*
Leonardo Trancoso wrote:
I assume you're including Enlarge Person applied and Eldritch Heritage for the Orc bloodline. But yeah, I would expect Synthesist, especially a Half-Elf one, to sport the highest end-game strength.
I think it stacks, by RAW.
Another more general question related to this is: Does Beastmorph affect a) the mutagen brewed, or b) the Alchemist's own physiology?
It has to be one of those two. Which one it is...I have no idea.
Yeah, my thoughts were a bit disjointed, but I did note Control Winds, too. If you have the chance to use it, and don't have to worry about collateral damage, it's great.
As I said, Druids are the kings of destroying large groups of mundanes, no one does it better. Of course, they're also the worst caster for fighting other casters (severely lacking critical abjurations or getting them late, less divinations, less protective-against-spells buffs, etc...). But they're so good vs. noncasters, between spells, the meat shield err....animal friend, and the ability to turn into a fighter themselves while spontaneously bringing in more dumb brutes to the fray. They're like the ultimate bully class. They're strongest vs. the weakest characters and weakest vs. the strongest ones.
(Wizard is the best at keeping safe from angry mobs with pitchforks; Druid's just the best at utterly destroying them)
You'd want a lot of giant area battlefield control spells. Druids are the best at this, with spike stones, spike growth, and plant growth. (seriously, if they're low level and on the ground, the spike spells basically halt the force in its tracks, the d4 or d8 damage every 5 ft WILL kill them dead) Heck, even 1st level entangle has twice the radius most mid level wizard spells have. Dazing Spell + Stone Call is a great way to daze lock a bunch of soldiers if they're not spread out.
Considering a medium creature can only be surrounded by 8 foes at most at a time (barring reach weapons) and the kiting the party is likely to utilize anyway, defense vs. ranged attacks is paramount, the ideal being Fickle Winds on the party to go w/ everyone's flight.
Hit and Run does also work, of course. Especially if the party can teleport and the enemy can't.
Other tactics could include plopping a symbol of insanity in the middle of the army, or unleashing some shadows, wraiths, or other population-growing incorporeal undead. Depending on how much time the party has, Control Winds or other weather spells could be cast beforehand to just plain unleash a tornado on the enemy army.
Sorc and ESPECIALLY cleric aren't supposed to be skilled classes. Having to make painful choices is the entire POINT. Really, wizards aren't either, it just ends up being that way due to Int.
Even then, if it weren't for PF's changes to class skills, wizard wouldn't be considered a "skill monkey." Perhaps a "pokedex," but not a skill monkey. Because prior to PF, investing cross-class was brutally painful.
And you don't have to max ranks in every skill. A lot of skill DCs peter out eventually so you *can* broaden out a bit.
I would never just give everyone 4+. It further cheapens the supposed benefit of "skilled" classes like rogue, and since the skills are so uneven in power (perception is king of the hill, UMD is up there, etc...), giving a slightly higher minimum is a straight up power-up to those classes, they can just take all the win skills. While as buffing rogue to say...12+int wouldn't power them up much at all, since all the good skills are taken after the first half dozen skill points anyway. It'd just broaden them very, very slightly.
Witches/wizards aren't being gimped. They're considered powerful classes and they're not getting anything extra. ...They don't need it.
Yeah. Clerics and Sorcerers are powerful already, too. Screw them.
No, Clerics really don't need it, nor do Sorcs. And intentionally gimping the int-casters on skill points but boosting all the others just because "they'll have a bunch of skill points anyway" is just stupid. Shall we give the wizard a bonus on social skills? Don't they need the help to make up for not prioritizing charisma? *eyeroll*Druids having 4+ is mainly due to them being expected to have some nature /scouting abilities, as reflected by their expanded class skills. I have no idea why Oracles have 4+, I guess some of the relevations lead to more of a semi-skill monkey than others.