Stonecunning's page

There's nothing stopping you from making and playing a new character to enjoy with the new low level players.

This is a tremendously narrow attitude. A lot of people like myself are casual players, if part of the fun of the game is progressing a single character when you only get to play once a month or so, then it's going to be very frustrating to be forced to roll up a new character who it'd take three months of playing to get up to level two, and that's at the expense of a character we actually enjoy playing because let's face it, Pathfinder doesn't have quite the same characters-are-totally-awesome-to-play-from-level-one thing that some other systems do, a lot of the reward is at higher levels.

I really hope the 'solution' that the dev team has come up with is to acknowledge that the problem was in their heads all along, but I wouldn't be surprised to end up with something really terrible and hamfisted. I could be wrong though, who knows?

Plural of anecdote and all, but at my (fairly large) flgs last night not one person had anything good to say about getting rid of gold for playing up.

Then I guess you really aren't required to get all those extra books, eh?

More choices do = fun, Mr. False Dichotomy.

Powerful ≠ fun

I agree?

With a cap of 12, more XP is a punishment, not a reward.

That will have players try to leave tables to stay in tier, or decide to not play.

I would be someone who would leave tables. Considering I don't get to play PFS too often, there's a decent chance this could result in me not being able to play regularly, which in turn would have a decent chance of me just leaving PFS. Character death is financially burdensome, and if I die I'd like to be able to play up to recoup some of the cost. If my character needs an item ASAP for me to have fun, I'd like to be able to play up to afford it, which comes with the risk of dying, which is financially burdensome.

This is a massively overblown response to a few people gaming the system. The real problem is that encounters seem to be thrown off by builds way more than equipment. If people have fun playing up, let them get gold, PFS hasn't fallen apart yet. One character death costing me a huge chunk of gold with no way to recoup that and catch up to others my level would almost certainly result in me just stopping playing PFS. It's taken me a year to get to level 5 playing only the same character, and this forum is overrepresented by people with multiple characters who can play frequently.

Edit: someone linked me this thread, sorry for the horrendous necrobump, I thought it was still going.

Edit 2:

From a game design perspective, a lot of people doing the same thing (playing up) because they find the rewards (more gold) fun should be considered a happy accident. If people playing your game go outside the intended boundaries without actually breaking the rules, that's a good thing. That's how games should be improved, since you never get more solid feedback than when customers are playing. I've never seen gear throw an adventure off balance. I have seen builds mess it up, but restricting gold for balance reasons is a bit like restricting feat combinations or stat combinations because it messes up balance: it doesn't make for a fun game, it makes for an overly restrictive play style. If players are having fun and your game isn't being utterly destroyed (and it isn't), then don't freaking change it. At that point the change is literally to take away fun because things aren't going entirely as you planned them.

Can eidolons wear equipment? That sounds kind of interesting, but less charmingly silly than an actual sloth. :)

No other advice?

If you're concerned about power creep, under optimize your character in exchange for more roleplay-heavy features. It's an RPG, there's no rule that all characters need to be optimized to hell.

+1 to this.

And, incidentally, kudos to you, Stonecunning, for taking the time to try going up the chain about this. That's something that certainly needs to be addressed.

I used to be a really different person when I played RPGs back when I was younger and let this stuff slide way too many times. There's a difference between socially awkward nerd (who can be great people) and someone who thinks that because is a fantasy setting joking about one of the most horrific acts an individual person is capable of is okay. There's a line there, and I encourage anyone who encounters someone thinking that this is okay to throw any caution about rocking the boat of their local gaming group to the wind because at the end of the day avoiding RPG drama is way less important than stopping someone from trivializing rape in any context.

I mentioned this in the e-mail to Mike, but my wife had been planning on coming to that gameday, she'd never played Pathfinder before and this would have been her first and certainly last time playing, and I wouldn't have been able to fault her one bit.

Again: If you encounter someone making rape jokes in a Pathfinder game, confront them and if need be go up the chain about it. This is far more important to address than any potential drama that may stem from you calling them out. Pathfinder is a game, rape is not. I can't believe that this needs to be said.

Stonecunning wrote:

I have, it's usually just ignored. Right now I'm trying to get up the chain for a game I played on Thursday where two people would not. stop. joking. about. rape.

Seriously, going "up the chain" is a lot harder than it might seem because often "avoiding conflict" means "continue letting one person be awful."

Email me about this incident please. My email is mike.brock@paizo.com.

Just sent you a wall of text.

I should have mentioned, I'm thinking PFS.

I have, it's usually just ignored. Right now I'm trying to get up the chain for a game I played on Thursday where two people would not. stop. joking. about. rape.

Seriously, going "up the chain" is a lot harder than it might seem because often "avoiding conflict" means "continue letting one person be awful."

I'm interested in creating a druid whose sole purpose is to have a tremendously asskicking animal companion, so a ton of buffs for the animal companion, all money from adventures goes to equipment for the animal companion, etc.

You see, I'm creating a Priest of Sloth. Now that may sound like an evil cleric's role, but no, I mean literally a big sloth. I want to create a druid who worships a (probably one person) sloth cult and views Megatheriums as avatars of his god, who cares less for himself than his sloth, etc.

So, starting out sub-optimized from that point to start with and with only a rough idea of how to proceed, I'm wide open to suggestions. Note: I'm totally okay with any other class option that would work better for this, as long as I get a Megatherium companion that doesn't need to be summoned. If anyone knows of a way for touch spells to be cast through an animal companion that would make post-battle healing pretty amazing (after all, why would a priest heal if the avatar of a deity is right there!)

Important post: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv3a?Animal-companion-what-magic-items-are-all owed#19

It might be great and great for you but I can already imagine party getting annoyed pretty fast by blind,deaf and character that can't speak normally.

I'm planning on being pretty careful with how I roleplay him so he stays funny and not really annoying. Deafness would be funny, and people are right about the fact that tongues could just be made up for with roleplaying, but blindness seems like it's a bit hard to justify other than "lol" from a roleplaying perspective (Unless people think hanging around shoggoths would drive someone deaf?) compared to just taking the tongues curse and being done with it.

Oops! Nevermind then! Sorry about that.

If there was a way to be thrice cursed so I could have tongues on top of them, it'd be pretty great. :)

That... sounds fantastic. That never occurred to me, and yeah being able to just go full shoggoth on people would be fun. :) Part of this character is going to be playing as a team member by being utterly (but not pointlessly) suicidal for the sake of the party (in hopes of winning converts). Optimization isn't my serious intention for this character, as living to level will be somewhat accidental :D

Players shouldn't bring their pre-existing prejudice to Kitsune players in PFS.

The Kitsune of Golarion are extremely different to the Kitsune of Deviantart.com.
My Kitsune also prefers to remain in human form, but soon he'll have the fox shape feat and then it's tiny stealthy animal adventuring all the way!

You may want to re-read what I said if that comment is directed at me.

Why indeed?

But deafness makes little in-character sense. If you're raised in a pitch-black cave by Shoggoths you're probably going to be A: blind and B: gibbering like a maniac.

So I decided to make a Dark Tapestry oracle who due to a series of unfortunate(?) circumstances basically ended up being raised in the dark by a bunch of Shoggoths who decided to conduct a social experiment. Long story short, he has glimpsed madness beyond the stars and time and feels that everyone must be brought to this glorious non-light.

He's a Quippoth Tiefling oracle with both the blindness and tongues curses, byproducts of his visions of the beyond as well as, well, being raised by shoggoths. Gift of madness, etc. Also, for traits he's got Darklands Delver and Missionary (I tried to work "Adopted" in in a fun way but couldn't really fit it). Other than a rusty chain shirt, a terrible stone dagger (minus to damage, plus to flavour!) he's pretty gear-less. So, beyond taking a bunch of fear and madness inducing spells, I have zero idea where to take him!

Also, "Profession: Cultist"

Yeah.

Playing up is fun because death gets way more likely and the rewards are fun. If they eliminate the award it's kind of weird, but I've always felt like PFS has a lot of people at the top wanting the game to be played a very specific way and I think they're going a bit overboard enforcing that. I really wish more people approached design in PFS as if it was a roleplaying game and not a board game where you can design your own piece.

I miss the old Living games. :(

Golembane scarab is a lot cheaper.

I'm a bit unclear on rules for shields, is it possible to have a potion in the shield hand and to drink from that potion while still retaining a shield bonus? Even with a buckler or maybe a ring of force shield? There's lots of stuff on weapons and wands, but I haven't been able to find anything on potions.

But it IS +3000 GP to cut down a door when it eventually does come up...

Even in season four I find myself playing scenarios where my character does little to nothing in combat (due to everything being dead before I can act or reach an enemy).

I am beginning to understand why initiative is such a popular stat. =/

I am very much in the boat that prefers more common TPKs if it means I actually get to participate in combat.

I've never had this experience, and "more common TPKs" would simply alienate casual players.

Are adamantine weapons really worth it when you could just buy a golembain scarab? I've been on the fence about getting rid of my flavouriffic MW Obsidian Dwarven Waraxe and just going for an adamantine version instead, but it's a heck of a lot of money.

Pretty sure playing up leads to more gold? Pretty sure that's a reward.

Just saying.

Plus, there are the furries that think foxes are sexy, but I still don't get that.

I've got to admit, this is my biggest problem with the kitsune. I don't really care what people want to think in private, but the most uncomfortable D&D game I've ever played was with a guy playing a priestess of the love goddess who wore (selectively covering) studded leather and had a whip and was obviously as in couldn't-shut-up-about-it into certain things that may involve whips (in character). Every single time I've played with a Kitsune in Pathfinder (this is not to say there are not exceptions or that my experience represents the majority as a whole) it turns into some really insanely awkward fetishism type stuff that frankly I don't want to deal with in any circumstances, let alone when I'm trying to have fun.

I assume the amulet is the best way to go about it?

@stonecunning:

Why doesn't the archer have...

I'm not the Archer. I have no reason to buy one, I'm a melee character with Darkvision. This is Society, not a home game.

Ka-ching! Thanks!

Do armour and natural armour bonuses stack? Could I have a chain shirt and an amulet of natural armour working together, or would only the highest count?

An everburning torch counters standard darkness and only costs 110 GP. Anybody can carry it.

Deeper darkness, on the other hand...

And again, for anyone playing an archer they're pretty much just going to sit the fight out unless they happen to have a line of allies making it possible for them to shoot through the darkness. I've got a melee character with darkvision so it doesn't bother me tremendously, but nonetheless it's a mechanic that seems to slow everything down and leave some people out of the fight, which given the nature of Society I don't think is super fair.

Edit: I'm not sure this is really a derail, it's more prevalent in recent modules and is contributing to the 'hard mode' thing that the thread is about.

Stonecunning wrote:

I mean, I get that, but why not play BESM or something? Or one of a billion other cartoon archetypes that don't involve animal people. Seriously, it's just super weird to me that there's this massive fixation on that one super specific thing.

My Kitsune is the furthest from anime as you can get...I play him as a faceless man from Game of Thrones...he's got a +30 disguise check at 5th level to appear as a specific human...had some fun with the aspis consortium with that...

See, this is pretty cool. I'd be interested in playing with this character simply because I could see an interesting dynamic arising.

MrSin, it's not a lack of respect for others' opinions, it's that I don't get that out of hundreds of things not allowed in PFS the only recurring one is Kitsune. It's just a super strange thing for me to see, I totally get why someone would want to play it, but for enough people to want it that there's a tremendous constant stream of people asking about it is what I don't understand.

Stonecunning wrote:

Also: Dear Authors: Please stop giving everything Darkness, it turns encounters into a slogfest and every module I've played where something casts darkness involves getting out of a gaming store an hour late.

Not to say anything against the rest of your post, but I wanted to reply to this particular part.

** spoiler omitted **

Because I don't play a spellcaster, and I can't control what other people play? It's not a home game, it's Society. People don't optimize themselves to work within a party of specific people. We frequently do have ways to overcome it, but darkness drops the speed at which an encounter is ended like crazy and in the end doesn't actually really seem to do anything to aid the enemies that much since, like you mentioned, it's overcome-able. I play a Dwarf mainly, so non-deeper darkness is okay with me. There's a lot of localized stuff that works fine once I get in close, but the last two modules in a row I've played have just left the ranged non-spellcaster just sitting their surfing the internet on his/her phone. Darkness is something that works really well as a mechanic but requires a certain amount of party cohesion to make fun for everyone. This isn't just me complaining, all twelve people from the last two modules I've played expressed the exact same thought.

James, your post is perfect. There's this stream of thought of how PFS "should" be ignoring that some people have fun in different ways. Playing up is always rewarded pretty heavily, but for someone not optimizing the hell out of their character playing at level shouldn't be an insurmountable challenge.

This is a roleplaying game, not chess for powergamers.

I don't remember the name of the module, but in one game the party opened the door to the room containing the final encounter, leading the one-man final encounter to say "Unexpected guests? You don't have an invitation!" On a whim I said "Actually, I do!" and decided to roll a bluff check for the hell of it. Natural 20, bringing the total over 30, sense motive natural 1.

"What? Uhhh... bring it here I guess?"

So I pull out a piece of paper, walk forward, rage, and drop an axe into him.

Good times.

I mean, I get that, but why not play BESM or something? Or one of a billion other cartoon archetypes that don't involve animal people. Seriously, it's just super weird to me that there's this massive fixation on that one super specific thing.

I do think PFS has gotten harder in the time I've played, and not for the better. I enjoy playing characters that are fun but not super optimized, and these days I don't feel comfortable playing at a table where I'm the only frontline fighter or there's no healer. I don't get to play very frequently, Pathfinder isn't a 'hobby' as much as a thing that I do every now and then when there's nothing else going on. I know very well that many people I play with are the same way, but I'd venture most of us who play that way don't post on this forum, since the very nature of a forum kind of self selects for people who play frequently. Turning it into a murderfest is a great way to take those of us who get a level 5 character in a year of play to simply walk away from the game.

Obviously we spend less money and are less of Paizo's target audience, but I think flexibility should be key. The number of encounters I've played in the current season that required a party that was dead centre of the range we should have been plus someone playing way down so that we could overcome some ridiculous defences of the BBEG that we otherwise weren't optimized for has been kind of crazy.

Also: Dear Authors: Please stop giving everything Darkness, it turns encounters into a slogfest and every module I've played where something casts darkness involves getting out of a gaming store an hour late.

I actually genuinely don't get this persistent obsession with the Kitusne, it seems like a super weird choice for everyone to get fixated on.

I think as a ninja trying to do something a tiny bit different is always going to make it more fun to play. They are fun as straight-up Ninjas, but the real joy in them comes from silly combos with ninja tricks that may not be optimized but are a blast to play. It's a game! Don't worry about being the strongest person at the table. Have you considered the Deep Sea Pirate and then getting a ship? If this is for Pathfinder Society you can actually spend prestige on a ship. Either way, it doesn't hugely hurt you and a combination of Ninja and Pirate would be fun as all getout.

So, I noticed that you neglected to mention what level you were or what kind of budget you have to work with.

That said, you seem to be pretty focused on AC, and as far as that goes upgrading all of your AC items to +1 then +2, and so forth is usually the most economical way to go. As far as getting rid of the shield, if you have enough you can always go for a wand of shield, shield of faith, or a ring of force shield if you have the cash.

Alternatively, if you have a caster in the party you can chum up to, a minor ring of spell storing is not a bad idea. Just have them cast any extra shield spells into it at the end of the day. You can also use this tactic to effectively get a ring of true strike. ;)

Hah! I'm a moron! I actually did mention the level (5) but my budget is around 5-7000 right now, since I spent some last adventure. Rotund0, the Jingasa is absolutely happening, great find! I'll probably never be able to compete with a fighter who is AC focused since I'm pretty dependent on having a buckler so I can still hold onto my drink (unless someone knows an easy way to sub in a good table). Long run I'm going to have to get the Maw of the Wyrm, since my build is pretty heavily intimidate based, but it is 18k for a +4 skill bonus and a once-a-day breath attack.

So I'm playing Pathfinder Society as the most stupidly rediculous character I've ever made, a dwarven Drunken Brute Barbarian Scout Ninja. Right now I'm BRB3/NIN2 and I just realized that have no real direction when it comes to equipment and spending my sweet sweet gold that I've been getting. I'm playing up frequently, so I tend to have a disproportionate amount of gold for my level. Here's my big thoughts:

My AC right now is 24 when not raging, I've got +1 dwarven stoneplate and a +1 buckler in addition to +2 from DEX. This is very useful since my stat distribution is such that I don't exactly get to tank things pretty hard. So one thought is just trying to crank up my AC as high as it'll go. Ring of protection, more plusses on the armour, etc. I do need to keep the buckler since I need to be able to drink to extend a rage if I have to. If anyone knows something that'll get me a shield bonus without taking up a hand that'd be awesome.

I could obviously try and magically bring up my CON to standard Barbarian numbers. This has the advantage of enabling me to live longer more. Downside is I'm the kind of player who prefers to avoid actually getting hit in the first place, and stat boosters add up super quickly.

I'm using a masterwork obsidian dwarven waraxe at this point, I could theoretically upgrade that to a +1 adamantine version of the same thing.

I could also look into wondrous items in some capacity. A few notes though: I pretty much can't move, in combat I can spend a round of rage to take either a move action and attack or double move, but other than that I'm relying on being in the thick of things and five-foot stepping between opponents, drinking from a flask of endless sake, and taking a single attack (I'll rarely be using more than one attack even when my BAB is that high, continuously raging is A: funnier and B: actually more useful most of the time).

I've also been eying the comfort property for armour because sleeping in it seems awesome and also the whole reduce ACP by 1 means I'd be getting a +8 on jump/acrobatic in full plate and always treated as running for the purposes of checks, but it's probably not worth the cost. I know I'm probably going to end up getting the +1 AC ioun stone since I've got a boon that lets me get it cheaply.

Any advice would be welcome!

We really need a sticky saying "Kitsune isn't legal"

On one hand, I don't get this. The old Living campaigns ran a far more detailed and well-formed world without many hiccups, but at the same time the faction missions in PFS felt really phoned in. I guess I'm not to bothered either way, since my main character is Osirion and they're missions are hugely phoned in anyways.

Some of it is just common sense. When you tell me how a paraplegic, blind, or deaf can avoid washing out of Pathfinder Boot Camp, or any of today's field services, that have similar training, I'll rethink my position. Because you're talking about some serious handicaps there and every Pathfinder is expected to have some degree of self reliance and to pull their weight in a group.

Well, considering any oracle can take crippling penalties and call it good for the rest of his/her life with dual cursed, I'd say that blows that out of the water. Hell, my oracle has dual cursed with blindness and tongues (tongues being the curse that doesn't improve) and he's a complete gibbering maniac who is barely capable of forming a thought beyond adoration of the old ones. If he can be a Pathfinder, so can a blind guy.

I was what, 5 levels below the next lowest? You needed to roll a one or a two for me to win on that final initiative-off. Still, that was a completely hilarious race, when it came down to one roll for me to win I was just thinking "No way, I'm ahead of the Xth level monk"

That was a great race though, everyone was a hoot!

I want in on this. Where do we send the info to?