Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ

Steve Geddes's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber. 9,692 posts (11,109 including aliases). 15 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 11 aliases.


1 to 50 of 1,644 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Jester David wrote:
James Risner wrote:
Jester David wrote:
Y'know, it probably wouldn't hurt to preview the potential errata a month prior and get feedback.

It would hurt:

  • In labor cost.
  • By giving the impression the changes may not be done if people complain enough - this almost happened to Sound Striker proposed errata.
  • By implying they are incapable of making something good upon errata re-visiting.

In short, there is no upside to an errata preview. Except a chance for people to go all ballistic in hopes to prevent their toys from being changed.

Full Disclosure: I used Jingasa, Featherstep, and Cap of Freethinker on characters. I'll miss them. I get why they had to leave, they were simply broken.

The labour cost is minor: reading a thread.

I think it would be much more than that, unless it's tokenistic consultation. All of the design team have to read it, then they all have to debate it amongst themselves (again, probably) and the overall effect is likely to be minimal, I suspect. As you say, they do amend their adjustments based on feedback - but they don't often 're-errata' things.

It seems to me that often the people who are upset about various changes tend to be upset about many changes (obviously a generalisation, not a univeral rule). That would suggest to me that they fundamentally want the game to be different than the design team do - not just that they broadly agree with the PDT's philosophy on game design, but are occasionally unhappy with an over-reach or under-correction.

If you want to challenge and hopefully change the PDT's underlying philosophy and assumptions then I think a specific errata preview is the wrong forum.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

If you're going for horror, perhaps the baby could turn out to be the real villain? (Revealing itself as such just after being "rescued").


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I'm guessing Taldor. It's one of the key inner sea nations missing a campaign setting book.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I thought the first instalment of Serpent's Skull, Souls for smugglers shiv was excellent (and provides a decent short term goal if you don't want to play a whole AP - you start shipwrecked and have to survive/get off the island). I thought it ran really well as a sandbox adventure - even better than I thought it would after reading it, although I didn't run it using pathfinder rules, so not sure if that made a difference. There was wilderness, role playing, dungeons and a mystery to uncover. It cemented my opinion of James Jacobs as my favourite first level adventure writer.

For mood/feel Seven Days To The Grave, the second instalment of curse of the Crimson throne is my favourite. Again it played really well at the table - my players got scared of disease (which never happens in RPGs, in my experience) they also got gradually more and more horrified at the wickedness of the villains and uncovered the true mastermind at a satisfying pace. This one had a few more problems in terms of keeping the players moving - they got stuck a couple of times and kept trying to run off to the finale a little early. Nonetheless, it has been a favourite of mine since I first read it. I don't think it would be as good as a standalone adventure - it establishes a few key elements of the overarching AP plot and would lose something run as is for a casual group, IMO.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
RyanH wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:

A large part of going to paizocon for me is meeting the staff and putting faces to names - is there a good chance of bumping into people just by kind of "milling around" as a fan (whilst trying not to look too stalkery)?

Does everyone get rostered on to some booth/stall/etcetera over the weekend?

Many of them take a turn at DM'ing a delve... a short 20 minute neigh-impossible Pathfinder encounter. Always fun, and easy to squeeze into your day. (Just show up, you can usually find a time when you just have to wait for a group to finish)

Last year they did man a table for signing and mingling... don't know if they are doing that again.

You will see them all con as you move about. (it's a small area)

If you do the banquet you'll be able to sit with a staff member (first come first seated.)

Cheers. I'm looking forward to the banquet plus the various "what's coming next" seminars. No sitting at home continually refreshing the messageboards for me this year! :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Adam Daigle wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:

A large part of going to paizocon for me is meeting the staff and putting faces to names - is there a good chance of bumping into people just by kind of "milling around" as a fan (whilst trying not to look too stalkery)?

Does everyone get rostered on to some booth/stall/etcetera over the weekend?

It's not like the hotel is a big spread out convention like GenCon. You will absolutely be able to spot us in our blue Paizo shirts. Many of us might be running from place to place to take care of things or make it to our next panel or game, but we're around on site all weekend. Make sure you say "hi" to me when you see me. I like meeting the fans, especially ones that have been around for a long time and are good folks.

You're on.

Do you look at all like your avatar?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

A large part of going to paizocon for me is meeting the staff and putting faces to names - is there a good chance of bumping into people just by kind of "milling around" as a fan (whilst trying not to look too stalkery)?

Does everyone get rostered on to some booth/stall/etcetera over the weekend?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Irontruth wrote:

If you mean "Medieval European Fantasy", then don't say "traditional fantasy", say "Medieval European Fantasy". This isn't rocket science.

Here, lets run a little experiment.

On Christmas, I like to eat traditional foods. In fact, I have 2 specific foods that are eaten in combination with each other that are traditional where I come from. If the first person to guess gets it right, I'll concede the point that the word "traditional" is super clear.

I think the distinguishing feature of those two examples is that I (or others using the term "traditional fantasy") are not making arbitrary decisions about what the word means. The word has evolved to have an agreed meaning within our subculture, in my opinion. Similarly, your family may well have an idiosyncratic yet accepted meaning of what constitutes traditional christmas food.

If I tell people I don't like lasers or catfolk in my games and prefer more traditional fantasy, they know what I mean. (They generally assume I mean pseudo-tolkienesque-inspired, western european fantasy).

I think it's a term akin to "gritty" rather than "Difficulty Check" (ie not precisely defined, but still usable).


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I use the term traditional because that's what other people I talk to use. It's not meant from a literary perspective though bur rather a gaming one: I really mean "as in fantasy RPGs of the 70s and 80s".

I agree it's a poor term, but I don't think it's generally misunderstood, despite being potentially ambiguous, since most people using it (me included) are ignorant of the scope of "fantasy".


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Bluenose wrote:


And also, 5e is newbie friendly? Compared to what? It fairly solidly runs into similar, if less extreme, problems as 3e in that it's really very easy to make a character that looks like what the player imagines and fails to deliver on it.

Really? We haven't noticed that. It seems to us that you really have to work at being lousy at your chosen schtick. In general we've found it easy to find mechanical ways to portray the character we want without noticing any blind alleys.

Do you have any specific examples in mind?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I've posted you my witty retort. You should get it in about a week.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

We're meeting some friends on the Tuesday after PaizoCon to start our West Coast driving tour and they're only there for the one night. Is the Space Needle restaurant worth visiting?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Weirdo wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:

I think that implication would be strong if both books were written at once. Personally, I think the alignment system was intended as a model of morality (a poor one) not that the terms were intended to "have moral implications".

It's a subtle distinction, but I think it's meaningful (and would remove a lot of the irritation people seem to experience in alignment debates where complex real-world moral views are poorly modelled by the primitive alignment system).

While I agree that it's worth recognizing the limitations of a game system to model morality, I'm not sure it diminishes my point about the alignment system having moral meaning, which makes people uncomfortable or frustrated when it conflicts with their own moral reasoning.

(It's not just alignment, either. Aside from arguments about how well the game models/should model physics, I've seen people get quite annoyed about liberties the Bestiaries take with mythological creatures eg Efreet and Ifrit being different things.)

That's a fair rejoinder.

I was nitpicking really, in that you seemed to be deducing what the intent behind the alignment system was based on an alternate system in a book released several years later (arguably several decades later) than the original.

I agree with your point, so was probably focussing on the trees not the wood. Sorry.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

It's nonetheless pretty common. In fairness, it's worth noting that moral subjectivism rests on similar a priori beliefs-without-justification, once you drill down deep enough.

FWIW, I'm not really trying to persuade you that moral objectivism is correct, merely that it is consistent. I think it's a reasonable criticism to point out that practically it's moral subjectivism anyway (since we can't directly access this moral measuring stick and are left with our own subjective value judgements). As you say, it's a difficult dragon to slay - "This objective measuring stick.....how do we know anything about it?" is a fair question, leading inevitably to "What would be different if it didn't exist?"

To return to the gaming side of things - the morality modelled by pathfinder's alignment system IS objective. Those who believe morality is inherently subjective will always grapple with it. My preference, if the alignment system is important to you, is to relabel the gaming words of good and evil with something else - like purity and taint or something.

I think questions like "why should the paladin fall by casting a spell with the evil descriptor in order to save an orphanage?" would be less perplexing that way. Then at least, the profound metaphysical differences between that world and our world would be made explicit. It's easily explained then - he was doing a good deed, but he performed a tainted act and taint sticks to people and corrupts them.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

More broadly, a moral objectivist rejects the idea that judgement is implicit in morality. I consider murdering an innocent for fun to be immoral (for example) and although I've made a judgement in forming that view, a moral objectivist will say that the fact that I'm right is a function of the objective, ephemeral moral-measuring stick that they believe exists.

Moral objectivism doesn't have a lot of practical import, in my opinion - since we're all left with our subjective judgements anyhow in determining how to act. Nonetheless, there is nothing inconsistent with the metaphysical views that moral statements are capable of being true or false (another way of expressing moral objectivism). We may be incapable of determining that truth - but that's a different question from whether the truth or falsity of a moral claim exists.

Most of the world believe in an objective morality, FWIW. it's a pretty central tenet of Christianity and Islam.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

There isn't any judgement involved in a PF world (if you take good-evil to represent morality).

If a paladin casts a spell with an evil descriptor nobody makes any judgement - yet he falls. The evilness of the act is just a brute fact about the world - even if everybody in it, including the gods disagree.

That's kind of my underlying point - what the game refers to as "morality" is something a bit like, but also different from what we refer to with that word. Hence my preference for ditching alignment entirely or relabelling the words so that people don't say "that's dumb!" based on analysing the gameworld's morality as if it were ours.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Nice technicality. I missed that. :)


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Trogdar wrote:

I'm still confused as to how you end up with objective value judgments. Even the gods are subjective within the cosmology as far as I know. They are individuals.

A value judgment is subjective by its very nature, so I think it would help if someone breaks that down for me.

Objective (meaning mind-independant) morality means the morality of an act doesn't depend on anyone's opinion. There is a fact of the matter - we may be right or wrong in our moral views because there is actually an answer.

In pathfinder there is an objective answer to "is doing X evil" (since you can test it with spells or by asking a paladin to do it and then see if he can still do his paladin-y stuff).

The set of things which are evil in the gameworld is determined subjectively by the DM - but in world it is an objective reality, no matter what anyone in that world (including gods) thinks about an act - it is actually good or actually evil.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

The point of the alignment system or the point of distinguishing between the game terms 'good/evil' and the moral terms 'good/evil'?

I'm not a huge fan of the alignment system but I think it's worth being explicit that 'being evil' in pathfinder is a fundamentally different thing than 'being evil' in the real world. (Since the morality of our actions doesnt stick to us, the way it does to our characters).


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Weirdo wrote:
Alignment in PF is written to reflect morality. It certainly would be interesting to use an alignment system in which we “replace 'good' and 'evil' with stand-ins that lack moral implications, such as 'radiant' and 'shadow',” doing so is presented as a variant rule (Unchained p 101), indicating that the moral implications of “good” and “evil” in the main rules is intentional.

I think that implication would be strong if both books were written at once. Personally, I think the alignment system was intended as a model of morality (a poor one) not that the terms were intended to "have moral implications".

It's a subtle distinction, but I think it's meaningful (and would remove a lot of the irritation people seem to experience in alignment debates where complex real-world moral views are poorly modelled by the primitive alignment system).


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Weirdo wrote:
Having an objective standard for good and evil does not mean that that objective standard has to be deontological in nature.

Yeah. It seems to me there is often confusion on that point - although PF has in game objective morality, it is not necessarily an absolute morality (alignment is, by RAW, a matter of DM preference and there aren't many moral absolutists around these days).


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I think it's a function of poor terminology.

The game uses terms like good and evil to represent concepts which are not our real world moral concepts called good and evil.

If they'd used new terms completely it would be easier to discuss. 'Does killing a goblin baby count as 'black souled' or 'white souled'? Would be a less contentious topic, since it explicitly acknowledges that the game ISNT saying 'murder is evil.....except for murdering evil things'. It's saying 'murder is black souled....except for murdering black souled things' which is not a real world moral concept but is rather some strange metaphysics where one's past actions (of any moral flavor) taint you in some objectively determinable way.

I think it helps to adopt a 'dark side of the force' approach in interpreting the game term 'evil' and remind yourself that it doesnt mean what we mean by the term in real life.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I wonder if it's because they are pretty interchangeable. I know I'm really un-fussy when it comes to plonking down the correct demon/devil. Any old fiend will do, generally,


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Sara Marie wrote:
Hi folks, I removed some posts (and replies to said posts) that I think? were intended to be all in good fun, but just don't translate well for everyone who might be reading these forum posts. In addition to text not always being able to capture a snarky or sarcastic tone, not all our readers or community members have historical knowledge of paizo.com forum and community interactions and relationships to understand these were likely made in a lighthearted and friendly manner.

Do we still get to blame Cosmo?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I generally look for more content as stretch goals rather than other add-ons.

To me (assuming I'm backing the production of a book) dice bags, custom dice, cards, miniatures, etcetera are all things which add the potential for delays. I have backed several projects who have delivered the book reasonably quickly but are now getting burnt on a second shipment because the dice/cards/whatever that they included didn't make it on time. (Or the inclusion of knick knacks has meant my book is delayed by several months).

I have a similar view with "backer contributed material" - I'm considerably less likely to back a kickstarter where some of the higher tiers get to submit a character/monster/name/whatever. Suddenly, the project is going to hinge not just on the creator but also on backers getting it together after the fact.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I don't find the sounds hard. It's the multisyllabicalness which bothers me (dragons being the most egregious culprits).


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
sentaiexpress wrote:
This is very cool and everything, but why exactly is a wizards product on paizo?

Because RPG companies recognise the silliness of edition wars.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Yeah - the analysis above (the 16.5%) is purely the 'natural talent' component. It explicitly assumes that whatever one guy has, so does the other. (They've both proficient or not, both of the same level, both the same class, etcetera). It was more directed towards intelligence the stat, rather than a skill based on intelligence (so expertise wasn't really relevant).

That quote was of one sentence out of a string of posts. As I said earlier - there'll still be mammoth gaps between the expert and the novice. It's just that stat differences make significantly less difference than you'd expect if you try to port over "real world intuition" (which was actually the point).


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

It's not just simple trivia questions. It's anything modelled with a single attribute check (often quite complex tasks). Relativity-inventing is clearly more than that, but that wasn't my example.

By best in the world I meant stat of 20. By worst in the world I meant stat of 3.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

We spent a week in Miami, but we were mainly lounging around the pool and spent most of our time on foot rather than seeing the sights. When we did touristy stuff we used taxis which I don't remember as being too pricey.

We stayed here. Which I remember as being quite nice, expensive and a little bit too funky for middle-aged people like us. (It even had paparazzi on the beach snapping pictures of people around the pool with telephoto lenses - never seen that before!)

We did a speedboat tour of the miami harbour which we all remember. Lots of pointing out celebrity homes, but also just a fun way to get a feel for the city's geography. We generally do that on day one or two of a new city and use it to decide what we're going to do in subsequent days.

I seem to remember lots of eating options in the art deco district (which is worth visiting). Nothing concrete to recommend though, food isn't a big deal to me.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Mordo wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Garrett Guillotte wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Garrett Guillotte wrote:
That they'll actually finish the 5E SRD?
If you're hoping for a 3x type SRD, don't hold your breath. They're not making that mistake twice, I'm sure. The SRD is more for 3pp than letting cheapskates have most of the game for free.
No, not even that. There's a list of things they refer to in the SRD, like magic item attunement rules, random property tables, and spells, that make parts of what they released unusable for players and publishers alike.

They expect you to actually own the books. Again, it's by design, it isn't meant to be a comprehensive rules database, it's an indication of what you're allowed to play with as a third party publisher.

They don't care if it's useful for players, that's what the books are for. They sell stuff, they're a business, not a gamer charity.

He's talking about it from a 3PP's perspective, not as a player wanting all the rules for free.

Attunement is referred to in the SRD but it isn't open content. That's a potential trap for 3PP who isn't careful or who skims the SRD and makes pretty reasonable assumptions. That link shows other examples too.

A 3PP that wants to create a magic item that requires attunement, they only need to say so, no needs to have the SRD explaining how it works, it's already in the DMG.

Sure - you're not forced to use it (and no doubt simply referencing it is probably fine, even though it isn't open content).

The point is that since there is a whole bunch of content mentioned in the SRD which is not Open Content, a publisher might mistakenly cite something which is in fact not part of the OGL.

If you're careful it won't be a problem - my only comment was that "You're not getting the books for free, the SRD is for publishers" misses the point Garrett raised. He wasn't asking for the rules for free, he was indicating several instances where a reading of the SRD could reasonably lead one astray about what is open content.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
MMCJawa wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
thejeff wrote:
The trouble with this whole discussion is that arguing in good faith, as the OP defined it, is a really great way to work when everyone's doing it. When one party isn't interested in good faith, it's a losing game. Arguing in good faith is how evolutionists get destroyed in debates with creationists, for example. On the internet we call it "feeding the trolls". The key is recognizing when the other party isn't interested in a real discussion.

I agree with you when the goal is winning a fight (such as in refuting creationists).

I would argue that in an RPG rules discussion there often isn't such a goal - it's more discussing a controversial area of the rules (inevitable, given the looseness and incompleteness of any RPG ruleset and the various different ways in which we utilise those rules). In fact, I think that one reasonable motivation for casting the opposing viewpoint in as charitable light as you can is not to win the argument, but to give yourself the greatest chance of losing.

I think many people, at least as far as common rules/Pathfinder main discussion threads go, do really feel that these arguments are important. That unless some specific rule problem/issue/point of contention is not brought up and fiercely argued, than it will never be fixed in the game.

Certainly I have seen this brought up in Caster-Martial disparity threads, and you can kind of argue it maybe has an impact (recent player companions and to a lesser extent the hardcover line, have introduced options to "boost" the power level of martials up in some way or another).

I have no doubt that for many people, getting more options for martials or clarifying some rule minutia is far far more important to them than keeping creationism in/out of schools

I agree with you, I just don't agree with them.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
houstonderek wrote:
Garrett Guillotte wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Garrett Guillotte wrote:
That they'll actually finish the 5E SRD?
If you're hoping for a 3x type SRD, don't hold your breath. They're not making that mistake twice, I'm sure. The SRD is more for 3pp than letting cheapskates have most of the game for free.
No, not even that. There's a list of things they refer to in the SRD, like magic item attunement rules, random property tables, and spells, that make parts of what they released unusable for players and publishers alike.

They expect you to actually own the books. Again, it's by design, it isn't meant to be a comprehensive rules database, it's an indication of what you're allowed to play with as a third party publisher.

They don't care if it's useful for players, that's what the books are for. They sell stuff, they're a business, not a gamer charity.

He's talking about it from a 3PP's perspective, not as a player wanting all the rules for free.

Attunement is referred to in the SRD but it isn't open content. That's a potential trap for 3PP who isn't careful or who skims the SRD and makes pretty reasonable assumptions. That link shows other examples too.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
wraithstrike wrote:
You can also break your post down for them, no matter if you think they were being genuine or not, but if you fire back with snark it just turns into an argument.

This is also useful for other posters who aren't participating but are reading along. I do that a fair bit in the rules forum and still get something out of it even when someone is being disingenuous or outright hostile, provided the other person remains calm and clear.

In my experience, it's only when both sides begin arguing against parodies of actual positions (or both start accusing one another of trolling, bringing up past debates and so forth) that it becomes a waste of time to read along.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

As another example (with the boot on the other foot this time):

I came to the rules forum (several years back) with a very firm opinion that people who complained about a Martial-Caster Disparity were playing the game in a way I really had no interest in. I thought they were missing the point - that they were focussing on DPR, that they'd forgotten it was a team game, that the only reason it existed was because they didnt enforce all the rules properly....all the usual preconceptions. It took a number of patient, articulate posters to explain to me exactly what the problem was and to show me that it was actually a real, objective thing.

Having got past my immediate dismissal of the opposing position, I was more fully able to understand my own preferences/approach and to realise that such a disparity is actually what I want in an RPG (which helps me analyse which games I am enjoying and which I don't). I think I would never have come to see that if I had not made the effort to try and understand the strongest formulation of the pro-Disparity crowd and had instead debated the rhetorically weaker proponents of it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

To provide an example of why I think a confrontational approach is unhelpful:

I often make the comment that I prefer a rule system where the DM makes rulings on the fly and there are only broad guidelines set out in an objective 'how to resolve this' way. People (generally who don't enjoy this kind of game) often leap to the assumption that I'm speaking as a DM - that I'm trying to tell a story with my players as a captive audience (or that I'm a control freak or whatever slant they tend to put on it). Having formed that view, they quickly dismiss it based on my imagined motivations/viewpoint.

In fact, I'm speaking as a player, not a DM (as a DM I believe in running whatever game the players prefer) and a lot of the 'refutations' or 'disagreements' with my view are way off base - they are, in fact, disagreeing with a point of view that I don't hold. This happens precisely because people have leapt to a conclusion without truly understanding what I mean. That means they havent even really considered what I was saying but rather what they think I was saying (and often a parodied, easy-to-refute hyperbolic formulation at that).

Of course, I don't think they are under any compulsion to accept my opinion once they understand it. But it might be useful to them to see that there's a broader perspective than the one they'd immediately imagined and then dismissed.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
thejeff wrote:
The trouble with this whole discussion is that arguing in good faith, as the OP defined it, is a really great way to work when everyone's doing it. When one party isn't interested in good faith, it's a losing game. Arguing in good faith is how evolutionists get destroyed in debates with creationists, for example. On the internet we call it "feeding the trolls". The key is recognizing when the other party isn't interested in a real discussion.

I agree with you when the goal is winning a fight (such as in refuting creationists).

I would argue that in an RPG rules discussion there often isn't such a goal - it's more discussing a controversial area of the rules (inevitable, given the looseness and incompleteness of any RPG ruleset and the various different ways in which we utilise those rules). In fact, I think that one reasonable motivation for casting the opposing viewpoint in as charitable light as you can is not to win the argument, but to give yourself the greatest chance of losing.

It's easy, once you've been playing for a long time with a certain viewpoint, to ignore weaknesses in one's own approach and to dismiss strength's in an alternate position. I think that if you put effort into truly understanding the most favorable, strongest formulation of the other guy's point of view you are much more likely to see the positives and to expose the weaknesses of your own position. That helps you to amend or evolve your understanding of the game more than reflexively dismissing something as "that's not how I like to play" (or similar).

I think the distinguishing factor between refuting creationists and refuting people who play the game differently from you (or who interpret the rules differently from you) is that the former actually matters in the big picture. There are concrete, adverse consequences to conceding the argument.

If your goal is not to win but rather to ultimately critique and refine your own position, I think you're far better off 'losing' the rhetorical arguments as I think you'll be better placed to revise how you understand things.

Having given a lot of ground when first encountering a dispute, I'm still happy to later on reject an opposing point of view - I think the principle of charity is useful when first confronted by a new or different idea - treat them as 'points of view I don't understand yet' rather than 'stances I disagree with'.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Yeah, speculating about other people's motives is rarely helpful (even if you're right it doesn't actually add anything).


9 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Hama wrote:
Sorry, If I disagree with someone's position, I have no intention of presenting it in a light better than it actually is.

No, that doesn't necessarily help either. The point is to avoid things like:

"I like to run the game with less structured rules and more scope for GM fiat" presented as "If you want to play fantasy-story-time, I'm glad I'm not stuck at your table."

or

"I enjoy creating a character and sifting through lots of options to ensure the mechanical representation of my character represents the flavor I'm trying to convey" represented as "You just care about having MOAR POWER!!!!!"

Hyperbole is one of the biggest problems on the rules forum, in my opinion. When people encounter an opposing view, it's extremely common to extrapolate that view to the most absurd interpretation possible and then criticise the extremist position - regardless of where the original poster actually sits on the spectrum. They then come in to defend themselves and often retaliate by resorting to hyperbole themselves.

Ultimately, the result is two people loudly ridiculing two positions nobody in the discussion actually holds.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Marc Radle wrote:

I have to say, some folks are being pretty dismisive of Gygax. Let's never forget that he, more than any one person *period* is the reason we have the game(s) we all play and love today. Although there certainly were other people that helped Gary shape D&D, he was the main, driving creative force that made the game, not to mention the company he founded to publish the game, the success it was and continues to be through its' many successors.

I just think Gygax deserves a bit more respect that he's getting in this thread

It's also harsh to judge someone who created a whole bunch of the concepts we've now refined over forty years as if he were writing today.

He'd have different opinions if they'd been formed along with ours and if they were based on what we have collectively learnt over the years.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Dustin Ashe wrote:

From yesterday's WotC post:

Mike Mearls wrote:
At this stage, we’ve begun considering what the first, major mechanical expansion to the game might look like.
What does everyone hope this means?

I hope it means:

Extra archetypes. No new classes. Extra feats. Extra downtime activities. Additional tactical options for martial characters.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I'd give the +2 since that's what my players would prefer.

Personally, I'm indifferent (I've always felt that PC progression is something of an illusion anyway, given the DM sets the challenges the party faces. Ideally it will feel like a world with an objective existence, but it is generally written with the PC abilities in mind).

+2 has the benefit of definitely granting the recipient an advantage. Often a +1 is effectively meaningless.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I think you've identified the problem: there's no right way to play, but people often think there is. Optimisation should be the goal if it's fun. It shouldn't be the goal if it isn't fun. There's no objective measure of fun.

The only issue is when a group of people sit down at the table with differing ideas of fun and one or more of them aren't very good at compromising.

I like weird builds which evolve level-by-level without much thought - who generally aren't terribly effective. My brother likes mapping out a character from level one to wherever-the-campaign-is-going-to-end and making him as powerful as possible. Neither of us is correct because we manage to play together without the other's PC really impacting on us and the DM manages to deal with it from a challenge perspective (I generally play the support character or the sidekick and my brother plays the hero).


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Cleanthes wrote:
Last note: Erik's new sign-off is making me nervous. People out there who know him, any recent signs of burgeoning worship of the Elder Gods in Paizo's high command? o.O

I think "worship of the Elder Gods" is listed as an essential characteristic on Paizo Job and Person Specifications.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Thanks again for the transparency, Vic. (And full marks for consistency - I doubt I'd agree with very much that I was saying in 2009).

I've run this twice and have no expectation of ever running it again. It's my favorite AP though, so I'll have to grab a copy "just cos".

Really looking forward to the Scarwall enhancements - my players loved the creepy feel but the empty-room phenomenon did detract slightly from the mood from time to time. Haunts, clues and other such encounters would have been an excellent addition.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Thus, no need to update Guide to Korvosa exists. It works fine as-is.

And it's awesome. If anyone hasn't got it, I'd thoroughly recommend it. One of the best city guide books for any system ever, imo.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Arazyr wrote:
Jam412 wrote:
Arazyr wrote:

Wow. Yeah. Gotta have this. My wife and I tore through the original CotCT AP in about a month, back when it was fairly new.

I *WAS* planning to cancel my AP sub after Hell's Vengeance, but if I want this in print and PDF, I'm better off extending my sub a couple more months! (Between the AP sub discount and the free PDF!)

Good play, Paizo. 8^)

You went through an entire AP in a month?! :-O

It took us at least two years to complete CotCT!

We spent pretty much every waking moment (outside of work, etc.) playing that. Those two characters just "clicked" so well we couldn't stay away. 8^) (Okay, it might have been closer to two months, but still...)

That's still pretty impressive. I'd think that's a record.

1 to 50 of 1,644 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>

©2002–2016 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.