So I ran a group of all new classes through First steps part 1. Not a huge amount to test with level ones but some thing stood out.
The party was 2 warpriests, a swashbuckler, a hunter, an investigator, and a shaman.
First things first... the shaman had a flying pig which was interesting to say the least.
I was concerned with how the swashbuckler did. Firstly apparently had taken weapon finesse with the intention to switch it after level 1. I don't think that sort of situation should occur. The class being so dex based, and themed as a melee class should get the ability to hit things better at first level without strength or level one rebuild shenanigans. He did dump strength really low though so damage output was really low.
The war priests were essentially clerics at this level, nothing setting them apart. One idea I heard from them was if the warpriest got spell combat, even if it was just for spells cast on themselves. Just something to set them apart a little.
The shaman also seemed very much like a cleric at this level, though did use the fearie fire like thing on something that was identified as being able to go invisible.
The investigator was a skill monkey largely, and helpful in many of the challenges, though less so in combat, but it is first level.
The hunter seemed the most combat ready at level 1, having a pet always does that though so no surprises there.
So the ideas I was getting from the original arcanist morphed into this for me anyway.
Only posting this here to try and get across more concisely what I was thinking about the class initially, and compared to now. Might no longer be what the main concept is driven for but an archetype in that route would still be nice... :-p
So after seeing the arcanist for he playtest I wanted to take it and see what I could do with it.
Here's my attempt at balancing and flavoring I did make the tables as well and reduced the max spells per day, as well as spells prepped, though did add in the school bloodline spells as always considered prepped (so like a bonus spell known for sorcerer).
Anything I was removing is in red and anything added is blue.
Still working on it but I did get the abjuration bloodline pretty flushed out. Any critique or suggestions are welcome, doing this largely for practice.
I think the new direction will be interesting to see, but personally I liked the idea of a class between sorcerer and wizard. The studious wizard who did have innate power. I think it was just that the abilities didn't support that flavor at the time.
I'll be keeping an eye on how it changes still see if it grows on me.
Hmm I want to like this class... I am curently homebrewing up a bit of an alteration. Essentially I am making bloodline s that are school based, and flavoring it as the arcanists study of their own heritage or something in their blood unlocks certain special powers as leveling. I did decrease the spells prepared chart and the spells per day chart, but then did add a spell list that they count as always having prepped when attained. Will probably post that in the homebrew area when done, but would love to have it inspire ideas ;-)
The way its casting works can be balanced I think it is just slightly off on spells per day right now.
This is a playtest. I am sure that the spells prepped list and may be the per day list will get a trimming. Repeatedly saying it is overpowered and the end of wizards and sorcerers will not avail you.
Also neglecting the power of school and bloodline powers and bloodline arcanas is a mistake. They can be used extremely effectively. Why not just have plus two dc to spells from enchantment all day, or always get the right energy type, or extra damage, or always act in the surprise round with an initiative bonus. Point is these things are majorly useful and to get bonus points to wiz and sorc still.
Hybrid Classes fail to offer new niches, unnecessary reiterate old classes and dilute support for existing classes.
It does get hard to make new niches after a while. I am seeing these as building blocks towards the niche I want. I may or may not select them they may not all be winners, but they are more options.
That said there is quite a bit of repetition, but that might be why they are saying they are alternate classes. AKA a peg above an archetype.
I can say there are about 3 I think I would be up for playing straight, and a couple others I think would be great before a prestige class or other classes. Others I glanced over thinking I can probably make this better elsewhere. But hey this is the playtest the point is to beat kinks out of it.
I will say there is a little something off in thinking about the spellcasting potential... might need some trimming on the spells prepped and spell slots per day.
Though the second thought is how sorcerer do have spells known beyond their chart, and wizards do get more spells per day than their chart. It is a balancing act. I still don't think it is an unsolvable mechanic though I would consider at least bringing the spell slots per day down to the wizards per day progression chart.
Aside from that though I really don't think it is a world ending class by any means. Certain items may already let my sorcerer "prep" level 4 and lower spells. Lets me do a ton more in game, but still limited by my spells per day after all.
I've been trying to think of something the class could use instead of the blood focus though. Best idea I had was to try and tie a school of magic to a bloodlinish thing.
Something like a conjuration bloodline, which would be flavored as some connection to an outsider subtype in your ancestry and grants more generic conjuration benefits when dealing with that specific type of outsider.
I don't think the benefits have to be huge either, just little things that make using spells closer in them to your ancestry that little bit better or easier to cast, and some reason why being straight Arcanist would be better than Arcanist/(insert full caster prestige class here)
Hmm I think my main question before building a character is since bloodrage counts as rage for feat prerequisites, is it supposed to count as raging for what the feats do?
Does Extra Rage give more bloodrage? or can you somehow get it with no effect lol
I think the first is what was intended, but it might need a better clarification.
Personally I think you should just give a bloodrager the rage ability as a barbarian of his level, and just have bloodrage be a separate ability that just happens to occur whenever you rage.
Ok so I actually had to look into what a skald historically was for this one :-p
I think I figured what rubbed me wrong on initial impression and looking into it. Its the song part, as far as I can find they were poets and not exactly song writers, so making it raging verse or something might make more sense to me, though I could be wrong I am no scholar of Nordic history after all.
That aside... I think my only problem with it is it doesn't really feel like it is a base class. I get the impression of a bard archetype. Not much separates it from bard other than a type of song a bonus feat, the ability to get other spells, and the capstone.
I think what I was expecting from a bard/barbarian was the raging song, but less focused on spellcasting, and more focused on his own physical strength.
Personally I think handling them like the magus is the best way to go... and if the decision was to avoid things like rage/bloodrage it already doesn't stop that problem. What if my rage is from viking? Or inquisitor of the rage domain?
Channel has been dealt with already. You can get grit and stuff elsewhere. I meanv almost all abilities of that are defining of a class have a tendency to pop up in an archtype of something else somewhere.
I like a lot of it. There are some things just bothering me though...
First a class that is a merger of an int and cha caster became a wisdom caster... and other abilities are charisma based anyway....
The spell list chosen just feels off to me, almost feel it deserves it's own list.
The lore spell adding thing will interact with wandering spirit weirdly, it lets you change that more in some players mind than intended I beleive.
Do familiars gan an ability based on the wandering spirit too?
Think that's it for now!
So I see a lot of people saying this class is unbalanced... but really you have less spells readily available at any time than a sorcerer (both known and per day) so it is at least somewhere imbetween. Anything it can do a wizard or sorcerer can already do and one does pretty much any single thing better.
No more broken than wizard or sorcerer is at the least.
Main problem I have with it are the details, the blood focus feels bland. I feel like if he just got bloodline powers it would be bettermay be at a delayed progression or something.
May be for the wizard side get to chose one spell from the focus school that you always know or something, but get to change each level up.
First found an error- shaman gets called a witchin the first paragraph on its familiar.
Second have a few questions that pop up to me.
Third comments .
This is just what I got for now will read more in depth later...
Oh boy this can of worms again :-p
Spells have always been the source of any casters true versatility. The right spell selection can prep you and your party for most any situation you know of in advance. Which is why sometimes a little misinformation is the difference between rolfstomping everything and a fair fight. Heck may be the enemy has seen the party and how they fight and prepped for them this time.
That however is just a part of it, some of it is resources. If as a GM your story allows for short spurts of adventuring then yes casters are going to be more troublesome. It is a good idea to get the right length of things in, it sometimes means you need to find a reason why they don't want to leave when low on resources.
Still I do understand the wanting to do more as a fighter sometimes. Kinda why I think building a less focused more versatile character, caster or not, is more fun. I would rather be a rogue than a fighter since I can get some interesting skill usage, which can actually defeat spells sometimes. I mean see invis still cant see stealth. The jump spell is no match for always jumping that way.
When you boil everything down though I think a lot of it comes to just how the casters are the more flashy ones or at least seem it in one's imagination. In any situation most pathfinder characters have a way to handle it if built reasonably with decent gear value. Results vary, I mean a trapfinding rogue is a bit more elegant at disarming a trap than smashing it with a hammer alerting people rooms away but both get by.
In the end as a GM I do think situations should sometimes be crafted to let everyone shine some. If you have a spellcaster who goes through one fight using everything he has and expects to sleep after that, then that needs to be rectified a bit with story reasons. (and an out of character talking to if they continue to expect it to work and everyone to go with it.)
If you ask me it just boils down to the group you are with and what the gm decides to put up with. Some people think talking about personal character stats at the table is too far which I disagree with considering though the character wouldn't describe how good they are at jumping in points, but they would use feet and is relative to each other. you might not know what a spell dc is but you do have a good idea of how potent your spells are. A barbarian might not know his strength score exactly but can tell when he needs just a little more anger to lift something heavy. So for those situations the stats are equivalent to a knowledge known.
As for understanding what monsters your characters know about best to stick to what they have experienced or "know" from knowledge. Now I don't think optimizers do this more, but more experienced players who just know stuff offhand do. I do think switching things up a little is a good way to throw a curveball then and get the surprised feeling at least.
Either way just ensure people are having fun, it is a game after all ;)
Personally I am never opposed to adding in some more options so long as the gm is alright with it. I like having new building blocks to build new characters out of :-p
As for wizard options, there are some prestige options, not a ton but some. I like the magaambyan arcanist :-p
And no the wizard hasn't had as many archetypes, they do have specialty schools, and the focused version of those. Each specialist type was built as an archetype really. Much like sorcerer whose bloodline defines the special class features. The other large difference for all spell casters is spell choice. A wizard focusing on illusion is going to play entirely different than an evoker. A rogue never gets those options so they got a lot more archetypes and instead of spells they got talents.
As for prestige class options paizo has produced well over 70 prestige class and like in 3.5 many aren't really something to brag about being, but they can all find a place sometimes, even just if as an npc. now add that to all the class options and archetypes out there, there really is a lot you can do. Heck even with combo classes I still like multiclassing :-p I had a PFS character make it to retirement a magus(kensai)/alchemist(trapbreaker)/monk(martial artist)/master spy. He was actually still quite competent in combat.
What is nice about the base classes is they give something that will almost always stay competent as they level if they stay one thing. So nicer for new players. They still also add more blocks to build frankenstien's monster if you want though :-p
Voska Volvetos has survived the breaching festival at the Acadamae, bringing him up to level 15 :-p
"It has come to my attention this school needs someone around with some good sense, as such I will be taking a teaching position at the Acadamae to ensure more safety and training for young eager spellcasters. I will also be opening my own lodge nearby. My Raven should almost certainly be around in one of those places if I am needed, just ask for venture captain Voska" ~Voska
And Baron Ice King of Taldor, Winter Witch^2, has braved many horrible places and events to make it to be a Seeker. He only died once, and not in you only die twice, rather the one time he did die he found himself cloned into runelord Shorshen's body. Presumably the pathfinder society brought him back to his own body but kept that body for experiments. This is not his only close encounter with a Runelord. No runelord Krune was quite unforgiving, killed his poor familiar Gunter with a horrid wilting, but was brought back thanks to the generous donations of a very very rich ninja.
He attempted a revenge feeblemind only to have it turned back on him, but was healed in a round curing him of stupidity, con damage, and what hp was was lost the turn after. Also, there was the apparent technicality that Krune should have in fact been ice tombed due to the unconscious tag not stopped by freedom of movement :-p
He has fought Giants, undead, demons, devils, and elementals of all kinds. Most beating him up directly and him just taking it.
Also Gunter has quite the collection of souls.... >_>
"I have seen horrible things. Things like slowly being drowned by large water elementals, and little girls worshipping demons, and some lovely filth in the Cassomir sewers..." ~Ice King
I would however consider it an effect relating to your sorcerer class. That said I don't think you are technically allowed to have sage and cross-blooded as both are archetypes technically. Sage replaces the first level bloodline power and crossblooded alters the bloodline powers. If a home campaign though just talk with your GM and shouldn't really be broken. If something for PFS though RAW says illegal.
So I was considering trying a Sorcerer/Oracle Mystic Theurge out... and realized that the combined spells ability is worded in a way that seems to hate a dual spontaneous caster. I was wondering if that ability, since written before there were any spontaneous divine casters (Oracle and Inquisitor), ever got errata or if that combination just does not get to use that ability at all.
I was gonna suggest becoming undead myself :-p
Did see a lot of other good advice though, staying out of range, by such things as say flying, or keeping yourself untargetable aka invisible to the witch, are all great.
SRD says: wrote:
This is why I am actually thinking of going with a spire defender instead of kensai... I do like some armor and do to doing a small multiclass thing I get some armor usable, and at least get the base spell recall later...
I really don't think the teleportation school ability works with those feats. Only since the feats specifically say cast dimension door, and casting a specific spell is different from a supernatural ability that is like it.
That said, I do think an arcane trickster using ddoor around places seems really cool... might not work that great though.
Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
Sorry bout that didn't mean to do that. Just first time I have posted on my item, and first time I saw it mentioned.