I really like the whole idea of the Pathfinder Society and have decided to use it as a back drop for the campaign I am starting for my wife and son. I am currently running them through the 3 free intro scenarios from season three. But I would like suggestions on what are some other good low level scenarios from PFS that I could use in their campaign? Specifically ones that cater to levels 6 and under. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Vic Wertz wrote:
Maybe bait & switch is not the best phrase to use. But what has been produced is a product that is sleek, well laid out, and easy to use. The next step, CRB is none of those things in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I love the Beginner Box. And the adventures and such that I have skimmed through all seem to be top notch. But I feel that if you want people to move onto the CRB that it needs an overhaul. It needs to be streamlined and laid out better. I also think that to be a beginner product, the BB should have had all the rules but limit choices. For example AoO, CMB, etc should be in the rules but the number of feats, traits, spells, etc limited. It would allow the players to learn all the rules, but not overwhelm them with all the customization options for their character. This would lead to a natural progression to the CRB. If I have played for 5 levels with all the rules, then I am not as intimidated by the CRB. Because I learned all the rules, the next step would be to start adding in all the extras. As a stand alone product, the BB is great. As an introduction into the CRB, I think it fails. It doesn't come close to preparing a player to move into the full rules.
Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:
Thank you for the reply. What about mass/density wise? Do they seem to be larger than the DDM? I haven't seen any pictures side by side, but I get the impression that the Pathfinder minis would make the DDM ones seem scrawny. How do they compare size wise to the Pathfinder metal minis?
Don Walker wrote:
My point was not how much they were making on it. The point was that the BB offered something that I was looking for. An easy to understand well laid out simple rule system to role play with my family. But with no further products to support, it then becomes my only purchase.
It has been stated that the point of the BB was to attract new players to the full game. But I think this has become a misconception. It actually ends up more like a car salesman trick. You went to the lot looking for a no frills car to get you from point A to B. But while buying the car, the salesman advises you that you got to have the power windows/doors, GPS, etc. So now you have all these extras that you aren't going to use. So you can either buy it or find another dealer who will give you what you want. Basically, I want to buy my stuff from Paizo. And honestly, I probably would buy a corebook IF it was put together like the BB. I say take the core books streamline the explanations and trim the fat. Make that 500+ page rulebook more organized and have rules like AoO, CMB, etc. in a section that is optional.
I quite like it - simple, fast, elegant. However does small stature also entail smaller weapons? My other concern was is it this balanced well enough? +1 AC and +4 to stealth seems pretty good, tailored to the rogue class.
I tried to keep the format of the BB regarding racial advantages, about 3 to 5 per race. The options are selected straight from the reference but doesn't factor in the size rules which is why I opted for only the portion that is included in the BB. The full rules give these same bonuses plus +1 to attack rolls with a -1 to their CMB & CMD. I thought the +1 on attack rolls may be too powerful in the BB rules so I omitted it. Also this has not been play tested yet so it may need some tweaking.
This has not been play tested. Let me know what you think though. I designed this using the Pathfinder Role Playing Game Reference Document. I left out descriptions to keep the post size down. This is only for levels 1 and 2.
1ST LEVEL BARD CLASS FEATURES
ARMOR & WEAPONS
Bardic Performance: A bard is trained to use the Perform skill to create magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired. He can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + his Charisma modifier. A bard can do either of the following:
Bard can cast 1 first level spell per day at 1st level. Add 1 more spell if CHA is +1 or higher.
Pick two spells from the following list.
Add +1 Attack Bonus, Reflex Save, and Will Save. 1D8 + CON Hit Points.
You learn 1 more 1st level spell and can cast 1 more 1st level spell per day.
Let me know what you think. I came up with this using the Pathfinder Role Playing Game Document.
SPEED 20 Feet (4 Squares)15 Feet when wearing medium or heavy armor.
LOW-LIGHT VISION You can see twice as far in dim light as a dwarf or human.
KEEN SENSES You are good at spotting details. +2 Misc Mod to Perception skill.
SMALL STATURE You are smaller then most races. You get a +1 bonus to AC and +4 to stealth checks.
ILLUSION RESISTANCE You get a +2 saving throw bonus against illusion spells or effects.
Vic Wertz wrote:
The beginner box itself seems counter productive to this. It becomes a bait & switch or a quick dollar idea. A product is released, BB. It is slick, streamlined, and lean, a fantastic product. I purchase it and I want more. So I start to look for adventure paths, only I found that to get any more I got to get a more complex bogged down set of rules. Now I have three choices. Upgrade to a complex bulky rules set that I may not be able to understand, run, or time to play using. Switch to another system. Or just continue to play the BB over and over again. With these options, the BB has basically become a quick dollar for Paizo from my purchase. I would love to get some of the Adventure Paths, but they aren't designed for the product I have so I don't purchase them. I honestly feel that if the goal of the BB was to get players into the full game then the wrong product was developed. They should have just released a new CRB with better explanations and layout. Don't get me wrong, I love the BB and it's rules. I am quite happy with it. But at the same time there is no way I am going to try and play an adventure path, campaign etc. with my family using the full rules. And I think alot of people will feel the same way. The BB is great and was bought for its presentation, layout, and simpler rules set. Upgrading to the CRB takes away all of the advantages that the BB presents to me which is easy of play, quick look ups, and just the right amount of options for character customization.
I prefer the Beginner's Box rules because I run the game for my wife and 8 year old son. Neither of which want to learn too many rules or options. The complexity of the Corebook and determining what feats, spells, ect. to keep in our game would detract from the limited time I have to design adventures for them. A second box set would allow me to make some higher level adventures, add more class/race variety and maybe a few more rules without having to teach them alot of new stuff. For example it is a whole lot easier to teach them that at level 6 a fighter can make an extra attack and casting a spell with an adjacent enemy can evoke an attack of opportunity than it is to try and explain combat maneuvers etc. It is basically me paying Paizo to do the work of simplifying and streamlining the game for me so I have more time to play. If I had to read a 500+ page rulebook AND determine what rules I wanted to keep and omit, I wouldn't have time to play. Which would mean I would have no reason to buy any Paizo products.
I completely agree. My wife and 8 year old son wouldn't play the full version of Pathfinder, too many options & too many rules. But this they can play and enjoy. I would love to be able to take them beyond level 5. I think to level 10 would be good for the next box. It could also include haflings, half elves, and gnomes. And add in another four classes. Maybe paladins, druids, bards, and sorcerers?
Heck when I discovered the Beginner Box, I read lots of reviews on it. I bought the PDF version and was so impressed when I finished reading it that I went right out and bought the retail version. I have not been excited about role playing in years, but this product has brought back the joy. I look forward to playing this whenever my family has a chance.
I am running the BB for my wife and son. I also created a character as a tag along to assist them. My wife is an elven rogue and my son is a human fighter. I created a dwarven cleric. This is how I plan to have things happen.
1. Black Fang's Dungeon
2. Deadly Mine
3. Master of the Fallen Fortress
4. Hollow's Last Hope
I figure this should buy me a little time to come up with some original ideas along with helping to flesh out the area around Sandpoint.