Spawn of Rovagug's page

Ok, Thassilon question time:

Looking at the map in the Inner Sea World Guide on Page 213 of the Lost Empires of Golarion, it appears that Haruka, the domain of the Runelord of Sloth, contains the the pyramid of Sorshen of Eurythnia (aka Korvosa). Is this an obvious error or is there some interesting territorial-dispute story there? I only noticed this because I was trying to identify in which domain the valley of Mundatei lay (it appears to be on the borders of Haruka and Shalast) for an upcoming side-quest for my campaign.

We'll probably get a bit more detail into the Magnimar part of the adventure, yes. And I suspect both the townhouse AND the sawmill will have the maps re-drawn... but mostly because we want maps that fit half pages better. Being able to redraw those maps to be a bit more realistic as houses and sawmills is a bonus.

Can I put in my $.02 and suggest Blando? Those maps of his that I have seen are very well constructed, a treat for the eyes, easy to interpret and make sense (even if the structure itself is fantastic).

Very Cool! I'm looking forward to this more than S&S or JR, and not just because I'm a big fanboy of Thassilon and all the Rune-inspired goodness of Varisia. I'm also stoked to see more on Magnimar coming out to help flesh out the first major city-state of the Pathfinder setting and what role the Pathfinder lodge plays in the region.

Just wish it had come out a little earlier than this tho (as I conclude the Skinsaw Murders tonight). :)

Having just about finished running The Skinsaw Murders (the players face Xanesha tonight - They all know they're in for a hell of a fight and have been researching and planning) I have to note that there was a decided difference in the ease of GM work between the first half of the adventure (Sandpoint environs and Foxglove manor) and the second half (Magnimar). Besides brief descriptions of how the Magnimar city watch was handling the situation, I found the maps of the townhouse, sawmill and shadow clock to be hard to interpret or unrealistic in design (especially the sawmill). I'm hoping (since I believe I saw Vic mention something about new maps) that these will be corrected in this edition, as well as a little bit more fleshing-out of the city's reaction and handling of the murders. In addition, I'd really like to see a few red herrings or a list of rumors for PC's to come across and follow up on, as well as a bit more information upon Magnimar's history. Any chance we'll see something like this?

I'd really like to see info regarding cultural norms and taboos in each chapter; something that gives each Lost Kingdom a distinctly different feel than the current civilization that rules the area. In regards to Osirion, I'd really like to see more info on the elemental clans, the Dominion of the Black (Nyarlathotep baby!), and the Four Pharoahs of Ascension (just how great was their power?). This could be in the form of NPC's, artifacts, spells or monsters. In regards to Ghol-Gan, I'd like to see what it looked like geographically *before* the Eye of Abendengo hit the area, along with more info on the astrology cultist in later years who committed mass suicide (Cult of Starry Wisdom?) and their connection to the ancient kingdom of the Cyclops (who, if memory serves, were also known for their strange foresight). As for Thassilon, I want to see... EVERYTHING! Rune magic, the Rune Law, the rise of Lissala (and the Peacock Spirit and other religions of the ancient empire of Xin), the major (and lesser) monuments, the geography, the rulers (more on Xanderghul please!), the castes, the society, the rise of sin within the empire (and what role did demons, the personification of sin, play?), etc.

I'm led to understand that this new edition will be changed to reflect Paizo's greater understanding of AP's, but I'm interested to know if this Anniversary edition will be updated to include new material from the RPG line of products in a grand Transmutation worthy of the last Runelord of Greed, or if this is going to be "as similar" to the original as possible, but utilizing Pathfinder rules and builds?

Thank you Paizo for listening! So excited for this!

The rune side of Thassilon's magic hasn't been ignored. We did a big article about it back in Pathfinder #5, actually. It's a big enough subject that it would have been TOO much to put into Inner Sea Magic. The sin magic stuff is simple and one page long, so that was easy to get in there.

Maybe someday if we do something more with Thassilon, though, we'll do more about their runes.

Yes Please! More on Thassilon and their magic, please! I've been looking for something to really make the magic of Thassilon something special for my RotRL campaign and while the article in Pathfinder #5 is great as a jumping off point, I was hoping for a bit more on the history of the tri-partite rune language, the goddess Lissala (and the Peacock Spirit), the Rune Law, Old Xin, and how rune magic was corrupted and/or perverted into being associated with sin.

I'm not a subscriber to the campaign setting line yet ordered this book since I'm running RotRL currently, but I'm really curious what sort of treatment sin magic received: is it just a clarification and re-hashing of previous 3.5 materials, is their more flavor text describing the differences in the mystic paradigms and philosophies of drawing upon sin to fuel your magic, or are there any new mechanical differences?

I'm also curious about Varisian tattoo magic and any correlation between it and the rune magic that it (initially) appears to have been birthed by; what are the key differences between this new magic system and say, the Inscribe Rune feat? Anything alike?

Triga wrote:

Any one else think this is in order? I would buy one right away.

I'd buy one, but I think most of us already have the books here, so I am not so confident this would sell all so well.

Also, it'd need some reediting and extra content.

Overall, I'd prefer new products set in Varisia with ties-ins, and more Kaer Maga, than a reprint.

I'm all about a new consolidated, updated and expanded hardcover version as well and I think it would be a big seller - I've been asked by several friends and game store acquaintances if I was interested in selling (one at above cover cost) my first 3 issues of Pathfinder.

I ran a side-quest for my campaign yesterday where the characters left Sandpoint to go hunt down the Sandpoint Devil within the Pit on Devil's Platter. Sad to say, the Devil left the party with two fatalities and a serious maiming (the character lost his right arm - he was killed, but had 2 hero points to spend to survive).

And so the Legend of the Sandpoint Devil grows...

Ah! I see what I was doing wrong: for some reason I was thinking that both target effects had to be applied rather than choosing between one or the other. D'oh! Much better effects among the Heal and Life categories now that I understand what the Targeting Restriction line should read as. Thanks for the clarification!

Going through the WoP section in UM, I noticed that all of the Healing effects have a Target Restriction of Personal on them; is this correct? If so, it radically weakens the Healing effects and makes a wordspell of Soothing Touch near worthless ("I can only stabilize myself when I'm dying, yet I have to be conscious in order to cast a spell..."). I also noticed this Target Restriction on the Life effect of Purify. Is this correct as well?

I just noticed that the "cone" target word is level 0. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like it could get remarkably powerful in the hands of low level PCs. I'm trying to find something that disallows it, but it seems like you would be able to combine, for example, Acid Burn with Cone to create a cantrip that deals 1d3 damage to everything in a 10 foot cone. Am I reading something wrong, or is this not as powerful for a cantrip as it seems at first glance?

Looking at it, an 'un-boosted' cone is 3 squares on a battle mat. So doing 1D3 acid damage on *up to* 3 medium/small targets, who each get a Reflex save for 1/2 damage, doesn't seem particularly overpowered for a 0-level wordspell to me. Sort of like a very weak acidic version of burning hands.

That's a fragment we never developed. There's a couple of those in the first volume of Pathfinder. The city of Melesa doesn't exist. Xin-Edasseril was somewhere in the Ironbound Archipelago though, so its likely located on one of those islands and its stones were perhaps "gutted" for the city of Halgrim.

Ah! I suspected that there were some changes in Thassilon when it described Gastash's fertile holdings around Korvosa in the same article. Thanks for the clarification and the alternate city idea.

In RotRL #1, in the Thassilon chapter, it gives each of the domains of Thassilon a brief summary, and under the Edasseril heading it claims that Xin-Edasseril has been gutted in modern times for the stone in order to build the city of Melesa nearby. Yet having looked at numerous maps of Varisia (including THE MAP of the Inner Sea) I can't find any listing of Melesa anywhere.

Am I missing something or is this an oversight on the part of the various authors?

I'm currently running a RotRL campaign and having received Ultimate Magic, I immediately took a liking to the Words of Power chapter (which could have something to do with my love of Ars Magica's magic system) and want to incorporate it into my campaign. So I'm throwing this out there to others who are interested in the Words of Power rules and have played/are playing/have read RotRL for their input and/or ideas.

My first thought is to incorporate the new magic system as a deeper understanding of the Thassalonian runes of power developed by Old Xin and later expanded upon and codified by his Runelords. The runes themselves are described as derived from the language of creation, so I figure it's a perfect mesh for the campaign. I mean, if inscribing runes upon the flesh can alter a person's lifeforce (i.e. Inscribe Rune feat), what might speaking them in the proper sequence and intonation do?

Yet the language itself presents a hurdle in that it is a dead, three part construct based upon positive, neutral and negative symbols, so the chances of a modern speaker actually being able to utilize it are next to nil. So this brings up a problem: How do the casters in the group have the chance to learn it and utilize it?

I figure they need a primer or two and a good dictionary, or someone fluent in spoken Thassalonian to instruct them; luckily, the campaign gives me both at the Therrasic Library with the Clockwork Librarian and the volumes of lore housed there.

However, I'm not sure when to actually incorporate it into the campaign and the additional question of how much to give my players. Here's my initial thought on how I might handle that:

I figure the library will be a good time to hint at the system and to field test it in my campaign by giving Mokmurian a few words to play around with instead of spells. In the library itself the casters could uncover some of the basic words and maybe a low-level effect word, and learn from the Clockwork Librarian how to pronounce (use) them properly, yet I'm thinking that Runeforge would be where the real trove of rune magic lies.

My idea is that within Runeforge a truer understanding of the spoken rune could be found among the Lords of Sin lab notes. I'm thinking I could scatter different types of words among the various labs of Runeforge, matching their primordial sin (and/or school) with the most appropriate area for it to be found in (Death effects among the Ravenous Crypts, Concealing effects among the Shimmering Veils, etc.). Yet I'm also thinking that some of the more exotic stuff (Gravity, Time, Power effects) can only be found in Xin-Shalast; specifically, I'm thinking at the Pinnacle of Avarice, where Leng seeps down into this dimension and space/time is corrupted.

This is just my first thought of how to incorporate this new system of magic into the RotRL campaign, but if anyone else has any idea or comments on it, I'd love to hear them. It helps stimulate my imagination when I see it from different angles.

Personally, I was pleased to see that Cha was the chosen stat to increase the Ki pool of the ninja class. As someone else pointed out, it takes stage presence to make people look where you want, and Wis doesn't do that. I also like the idea of Ki not just being connected with one stat - sort of a Yin/Yang thing. One is a passive force (Wis: focused on the within; an introvert) while the other is an active force (Cha: focused on the without; extrovert). Not a perfect analogy, I know, but Cha makes far more sense to me for the ninja than Wis.

Just my opinion.

Theoretically...

-For PFS (if I wanted to play, which I don't) I'd want the GM to change things very little or not at all; so a 0.

-For PF modules I'd want the GM to have as much flexibility as possible; so a 5.

-For an PF AP I'd want the GM to follow the storyline but add some red-herrings, side-quests and personalized mini-adventures; so a 3 (maybe a 4).

But I haven't played a PC in about 3 or 4 years (sad, I know, but my skills are in demand for GMing) so I'm a bit biased and skewed when it comes to such things. :)

It's not changing the rules on a whim that's the problem, necessarily; it's whether the DM lets the players respond appropriately. Don't like Knowledge checks? Fine, but tell your players before they waste their skill points. The players come to the game with a set of expectations based on the rules set you claim to be running, and arbitrarily violating those expectations is...well, it makes having fun a lot harder as a player.

I absolutely agree that letting the players know of your preferences and game style before play are not only appropriate, but wise to announce if you are to have a fun game. Players will know what to expect by the tone and flavor of a campaign and a smart GM can also help make suggestions in character choices during creation that help their players (especially inexperienced ones) to have more fun in the campaign.

And personally I would never dream of removing Knowledge skills from the game as a GM - no, they are far (FAR!) too useful in directing a storyline or helping clueless players who aren't putting the pieces of the mystery together at 1am in the morning. :)

lovecraft .......so hard to read ......but so dame good .......but not before bed time......

Are you kidding? That's the best time to read Lovecraft, especially his Dream Cycle stuff like the Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath. And I have found his Dreamlands creatures and locations to be easier to translate to a fantasy game than other creations of his.

i got one should i worry about the other elder gods and such or is it not worth the reading to add to my game?

It really depends upon what you want for your game, but personally, I suggest reading all the Lovecraft you can, if for no other reason than inspiration.

Mostly, it's your game and up to you whether you want any of the other great old ones to even exist on your world. :)

mmmmmmmmmm thats really good ...............

i will now shamelessly steal that from you

and again thank you for your input

It's not stealing if it is given freely. :)

And you're welcome. Anytime you have a question in regards to the Mythos, just holler.

I understand the need for a GM to control the game but to me the players should have the same opportunity. After all, what is a GM with no players? As GM I can control a lot of things but I have to play the same game as the PCs. I can't decide Knowledge Checks aren't part of my game as GM yet still have my players invest skill pints in Knowledge. I can't decide as GM to not use initiative but have my players select Initiative based feats. Players and GM, I believe, need to be using the same rulebook so I as GM don't get to overrule it at my whim.

Any GM who decides to arbitrarily remove game mechanics or override the rules in such a fundamentally blatant way is not a GM I'd want to play with. That is taking the role too far - the game has rules for a reason. And I wasn't talking about changing the rules, I was discussing what is in the GM's purview - NPC reactions in a tactical situation. Players should only get to dictate that when they have Dominate Monster going (or some other similar effect).

However, in regards to GM's changing the rules, I believe that if a GM has a serious problem with the RAR then they should propose changes to their group that work, are balanced and has a rationale behind it. And players should have the right to ask and question why rules are changed, and to express displeasure at changes they disagree with in an adult manner. Ultimately though it is the GM's decision. The power to change the rules should never, EVER be left to players alone.

As for overruling the rules on a whim, I do it all the time - when I roll dice behind the screen. If I feel that my players are getting trounced through bad die rolls on their part, I will throw a few bad die rolls on my own, even if they are nat 20's. This is to help preserve the story and the fun and enjoyment of the players, not to show them up or lord it over them.

One of the first things I learned as a GM is I can kill the player characters on a whim. I can have their 1st level PC's "randomly" attacked by horde of angry ogres, or the master assassin in town take a serious dislike to them and poison the whole lot (just in case). But that sure as heck isn't fun for anyone except the power-tripping GM-wannabe.

GMing is all about finesse - how many balls can you keep in the air while distracting your audience enough to temporarily steal away with their mundane concerns? Rules are a science, but running a game is Art.

cthulhu's bounds i was going to use the vaults things from "into the darklands" this one being held together by the faith in the gods when the people stop having faith in the gods they lose there power and cthulhu gets free and that what the under-folk and more so the aberrations are working toward kill/taking over/in slaving the faiths

Destroying faith is an incredibly hard thing to do. Hope is hard to crush. Doing it on a global scale would be nigh impossible. Perhaps, instead of hinging upon the loss of faith in the gods, the cultists plan instead to "awaken" the innocent masses to the truth of their cosmic insignificance by amplifying the very power that drew them to worship mighty Cthulhu - his Call.

If you read the Call of Cthulhu you'd remember that his psychic calling drove numerous people to commit suicide or to go mad when heard by the more sensitive type of people in the world - artists, dreamers and psychics. Perhaps the tsochar may seek to enhance this call through some great plan or design, so that when all those peoples of the surface hear the calling of the great old one and understand the truth of how insignificant they and their gods are, that this causes massive riots, murders, wars and the collapse of civilization, weakening the various holy (and unholy) sites that act as loci for a massive binding seal that keeps the great lord in his death-like state.

Just a thought.

If I ever encounter a player who is going to challenge the reactions of the NPC's and thinks they know all the motivations of said NPC's, then I would sit him down outside of the game, listen to his concerns and then politely, but firmly explain two things: First, as a GM my rule is law. Period. It overrides everything in the Core Rulebook. In any game book. I create the world, I control the gods, the seas, the weather, the animals, the people, the dimensions, everything. I am the Game Master. If I want my goblins to stand their ground and fight, they will. If I want them to run away, they will. But no player will dictate to me how I will run *my* game, because as the job title says, I am the master of the game. And second, the one rule that sums up the entire game - Have Fun. If they aren't having fun, and I can't address those concerns with my GM style, then they should move on to another group. However, that rule applies to the Game Master as well. If I as the GM am not having fun and having players challenging my depictions of creatures because it's not as it is in the book, then why the heck do I want to invest my time and money into running a game for a bunch of people who can't appreciate the effort I put forth? It's not like the vast majority of GM's out there are getting paid to entertain the players - so why put up with it?

Just my 2 cents.

I like what I see. Various levels of "it's there if you look hard enough". I personally prefer a mix of using published material with a hidden spin. I almost always try to keep it in the background when I run a game, but I'm currently running a RotRL campaign and I think I'll be increasing the Lovecraftian elements (which will add more mystery and menace, I hope). I don't just mean the cosmic-horror influence either - I personally love his depictions of the various antiquated and insular (and many times, degenerate) communities in rural New England.

Any GM's come up with interesting Lovecraftian twists or depraved cults which might pop their heads up Varisian?

Here Are a couple of rough sketches of some ideas I'm working on...

-Grubber's Hermitage: A group of insular varisian fishing families who don't like outsiders poking into their affairs. (screams "Shadow over Innsmouth" to me but I'm going with a slightly different approach) Named after the strange hermit who lives in isolation upon the southern spur of rock, the fishermen keep to the north edge, plying the waters and worshiping Gozreh at a small cliff-side shrine.
+Reality: The group of somewhat inbred varisians are a tribe that have been "awakened" to the worship of the great old ones (and who all bear the hideous scars of that awakening upon their skulls) by their ancient raunie, a seer who long ago fell under the psychic influence of creatures trapped beneath Kaer Maga (the Drowned Levels). Years ago she led her people to the sea, to the tip of a ruined Thassalonian complex and the deathless dreams of its prisoners. However, standing in her way is the mad barnacle grubber, the strange hermit who was driven to isolation by the voices of the dead (oracle of Pharasma - waves mystery) and who guards the underwater entrance to the ruins because the dead tell him that "the dead must stay dead."

-Windsong Abbey: Built upon the Lost Coast, this beautiful gothic sandstone structure is renowned for the strange and eerie tunes that sing through it's halls when the wind blows. Indeed, music seems to always fill the air here as the various faiths sing their praises at all hours. However, at night, when the mists from the coast begin to creep across the land and the deep reds, blues and greens of the stained glass are lit from within by the dozens of candles held by choristers singing their hymns, the beauty of the scene can only be be described as haunting. Under the watchful eyes of the charming yet stern Masked Abbess (a worshiper of Shelyn who hides her own features for the sake of others since she was not blessed with a pleasing appearance) the various cloisters of nuns and monks see to the local farmers needs when not engaging in spiritual and philosophical debate with each other.
+Reality: Built upon the ruins of a hellstorm flume, the minor runewell ensconced below flared to life with the awakening of Karzoug. This did not go unnoticed by the Abbess, who, as all abbots and abbesses of the past, knew of the secret chambers beneath the abbey and the hidden trove of forbidden lore stored their. However, her motives do not coincide with Shelyn, as she is a secret worshiper of the Peacock Spirit, long since converted to its worship after having uncovered blasphemous tomes locked away below. With a handful of willing converts (and a number of murders of those who were not willing), the Abbess has spent the past 5 years researching the mysteries and scrolls available to her in secret, gazing within the bubbling depths of the runewell and preparing her followers for what is to come. All the signs seem to indicate that something is awakening - something the Peacock Spirit wishes to come to pass. However, a fat monk of Cayden Cailean who tends the winery and fields surrounding the Abbey, has noted the changes in some of the nuns and after the first few disappearances, began to suspect that all is not right within the hallowed halls. More and more has he turned to his cups to wash away the worry that something evil has taken root here.

-The Peacock Spirit: A creature of such blinding beauty that shields its face from the gaze of creatures who would die of shame at their own unworthiness, the lore of the Peacock Spirit tells of how it came into the universe from elsewhere, cast out by beings jealous of it's beauty. When it fell through into this reality, the transition shattered its perfect form into a thousand fragments of unearthly beauty.
+Reality: Nothing more than another Mask of the Crawling Chaos.

More will come as the campaign progresses as the players are still only on Burnt Offerings.

Being a long-time fan of the Cthulhu Mythos, I'm curious how many other GM's out there incorporate the monsters and dark lore concerning it into their own games and to what extent?

For future reference (in case you aren't at a computer), thunderstones are described in the Core Rulebook on page 160 under Special Substances and Items and listed on page 158 under the same heading.

Ahem. one word for you:

Ptolus.

+1

being new to pathfinder, who is this ameiko kaijutsu?, i assume she is from an early ap, also what is savage tides, i spent about 15 years away from dnd/pathfinder and am not familiar with it.

Ameiko Kaijutsu is a Minkai (asiatic) noble-turned rebellious tavern owner in the town of Sandpoint in the first AP Rise of the Runelords. During the course of the first adventure the characters have a chance of saving her from a nefarious fate.

And welcome back. :)

Woo hoo! I can't wait to see what's in the works for Miss Minkai - flights from distant foreign lands to unsettled shores, unrest and turmoil and bleak omens, dark backroom imperial politics, and a destiny that can't be avoided.

My mind is suddenly flashing back to Clan Wars. Ah, good times. Good times.

So with that said, will there be any Thassilonian/Runelord connection in Jade Regent, even as background or a setting in the first adventure?

And what about those runelords? Any of them besides Ol' bumpy-head gonna get outta bed anytime soon? Like 2011 soon?

If a person has access to the Ravenloft Dungeon Master's Guide, pages 39 to 42 has a good list of music that would more than likely be appropriate to Carrion Crown.

And I have to second the Ravenous Soundtrack. Been creeping out players with that one for years.

While it will be sometime yet before I reach the end of this AP, I've already begun brainstorming plans for an Expedition to Sarkomand and the nefarious plots of the Denizens of Leng. Towards this end I seeded the campaign with character hooks and vague mysteries that involve the machinations of the Black Ships in the Varisian Gulf. And part of their plans will undoubtedly include Bakrakhan, the Polymorph Plague, Hollow Mountain and the major runewell secured there.

After just discovering the Jade Regent AP is in the works and that it starts off in Varisia, I hope that it involves Ameiko Kaijutsu in some manner. My players really love that NPC (I'm currently running RotRL and she has been very helpful to her rescuers and friends, the PC's). And as a long-time fan of the L5R RPG, hearing about all the oriental themed fluff and crunch that's in the works has gotten me salivating.

Because Golarion just needs more oni. ;)

I'm curious - will the Council of Thieves Adventure Path have a player's guide like the previous four? 'Cause I can't seem to find one listed on the website. Or is it that the Pathfinder Companion book, Cheliax: Empire of Devils, is going to be the equivalent? (I have found the player's guides *very* helpful for giving guidelines for what sort of characters are most appropriate or useful for the game, as well as hints or interesting flavor for the campaign.)

Just curious: Where is Glimmerhold located in Golarion? Is it in the Mindspin Mts, the Five Kings, the Menador range, or somewhere else completely?

I hope that in this campaign arc we see an article on the church of Azmodeus. Please? Pretty please? :)

Greyson wrote:

At least "Pathfinder" is spelled correctly on the cover, right?

I hope so. No promises, though.

I gotta say I love the book - however, the fold out map has a rather large misspelling (The Inner Sea Reigon). It's beautiful otherwise, but I look at it and I just have to shake my head (the map is already up on my wall). If any of my player's ask I'll tell them that it's an Olde Taldane spelling of 'region' as transcribed by the scholars of Absalom. ;)

First off, let me just say I am a huge fan of the Horror genre. With that said...

Wow.

Just, Wow.

I didn't expect this from a D&D supplement.

Bravo.

Seriously... Wow.

Richard Pett, my hat is off to you. You and the Paizo Crew did an excellent job in putting the horrific into a fantasy game.

Xastur the Anonymous One

I'm all for font sizes that are legible, but I have to say I really like the current font size, primarily for the sheer density of subject matter. Subscribing to Pathfinder, I was initially worried about the cost versus page count, but after seeing those tiny little words and the sheer DM goodness that suffused the pages of that beautiful (if all too slim) paperback quarto, it made me salivate obscenely for the next chapter.

Please do not change the font (size or type) until Rise of the Runelords.

Xastur - the Anonymous One