I'm finding the trial a day schedule a little taxing. Game feels a little rushed. Foe example, the PC's didnt feel they had time to wait around until night fall to investigate the "night ghosts" - after encountering two of the "children" and investigating the in bed death, they felt they had enough, or were running out of time.
Also, they would also be faced with a choice -investigate vorkstags or go to the sanctuary if I didn't delay the trial schedule.
If I ran this again I would either stress time and push for all night rides and no sleeping, or space the court dates out by a day or so. As it is, I'm using the mob attack as a reason to delay the 3rd day of trial. Which seemed to make sense, esp. since the party prematurely torched the punishing man....
Overall the players are loving it.
Yea...the players are meant to feel rushed and have the comfort of a good night's sleep pulled from under them. And the authorities want the trial over and done with ASAP...The Beast is guilty in their eyes and the trial is just for show...
I have read the book, and your DM is running a totally altered version of it. Only one of the three things you described is in the actual module, and it isn't the CR10 haunt (why would something like that be upstairs, anyway?). It supposed to be a level 1 adventure, after all. Either you guys are running it at much higher level and your DM made a bad judgment call on what challenges to add, or he tossed the equivalent of a dragon fight at a level 1 or 2 party.
Also, on the one thing that actually is in the module...** spoiler omitted **
Agreed...it seems like your GM didn't want you to go there so stuck a nasty to stop you.
Without getting the other side of the story it seems to me that the issue isn't with the AP but the GM...That maybe unfair but that is my opinion from the evidence...
This, which I pinched from the CCC thread, is what I gave to the player of the cleric in my game before they got to Ravengro
What you know about Haunts:
With the knockings of restless spirits erupting around us, I raised my hand and snapped my fingers thrice, loudly. The raps paused, then responded back in unison. As we called out questions to the dead lord of Montalov Manor, the knocks responded, and we began to unravel the mystery of Arno Montalov’s murder. Suddenly the temperature dropped to a deadly chill, and a pair of spectral hands seized my throat in an iron grip, just as they had seized the estate’s lord some eighty years before.
—Joseffy Cagliosamo, retired ghost finder
While decrepit asylums and rotting ancestral estates are the most obvious places for haunts, folklore is filled with ghostly encounters along lonely country roads and fog-shrouded moors, and even thriving inns and taverns are reliable receptacles for supernatural presences. In short, any location where unjust death, murder, and deceit have taken place is fair game for unquiet spirits. – Rudolph Van Richten, famed Varisian Vampire hunter
Haunts are quite difficult to detect, since they cannot be observed until they actually manifest. Luckily, the perceptive hunter will notice some change in the environment, whether their skin prickles due to a sudden change of temperature, or perhaps an odd smell suddenly wafts into the room, that will warn them and give them a moment to act. Professor Petros Lorrimar, “Famous Hauntings of Vieland”
Luckily an indoor (ruins or otherwise) haunt’s size is usually limited to the room in which it is located. More disturbing are the haunts of outdoor areas, which can be of truly frightful size and preponderance. It must be noted, however, that even an entire building may comprise a single haunt. - Ailson Kindler, “Memories”
Haunts hate the living, and it seems as if they can detect nearby life sources. The thing then triggers as a result of the approach of or contact with living beings. I postulate that some haunts may be tricked by effects such as “hide from undead” or perhaps “invisibility.” - Van Richten
The effects of a haunt are as varied as the effects in a Master Wizards grimoire. A haunt might cause a room to explode into f lames, infuse a chamber with fear, or even frighten a poor victim to death . There are recorded cases of smashing walls, icy chills, fungal growth, and much worse. – Yaoveh Iddusia, “On Borrowed Lives”
Much to our dismay we discovered that a neutralized haunt is not actually destroyed, and can manifest again after a period of time. To destroy a haunt, a specific action must be taken in the region to end the effect forever (such as burning a haunted house to the ground or burying the bones of the slaves who died on the site to create the haunt). This specific act is different for every haunt , although a number of nearby haunts often share the same destruction act. – Orpeum Kindler, “The Phantom of August House”
Tobin’s Spirit Guide described some of the more common haunts-
Rapping Spirit - The most common haunts are rapping spirits: unquiet dead with just enough substance to produce cacophonous knocking and loud bumps in the night.
Slamming Portal - Mysteriously locked or slamming doors usually indicate a supernatural presence protesting intrusion, and serve as stern reminders that explorers are unwelcome in the realm of haunts. These frivolous spirits are fond of not only locking the living out of rooms, but also locking them in, usually with deadly dungeon denizens.
Orbs - Common signs of ghostly infestation, these sentient spirits manifest as a lazily drifting cloud of translucent, glowing orbs. Scholars speculate that they represent minor animal spirits, ghosts who have faded into the ether with time, or even the souls of children.
Cold Spot - Cold spots occur at the sites of the traumatic deaths of creatures that lack the psychic fortitude to persist as true ghosts. These common supernatural indicators are known to roam within large complexes, continuously seeking relief from the chill of death by drawing warmth from the living.
Choking Hands - Whether lingering embodiments of lynched serial stranglers or the traumatic psychic manifestation of a hysterical public, these dangerous spectres lurk in dark alleyways seeking vengeance on the living.
Mad Monk - Often found haunting ruined monasteries, apparitions of monks are among the most commonly reported haunts. Stories of the enigmatic spirits are conflicted, as some report offers of chalices of healing elixir, while others tell of poisonous betrayal from the seemingly benevolent ghost’s gift.
Baleful Apparition - Bile seeps up from floorboards while horrific images of bloody claws or the gasping faces of drowned victims fade into view and back out again. Such are the haunts that infest torture chambers, ruined castles, and secluded, swampy groves.
Restless Spirit - Mysteriously moving furniture, flying objects and invisible attacks are common indications of haunts in noble villas and dank dungeons alike. Restless spirits typically manifest to protest the intrusion of mortals onto forgotten gravesites or the sacred grounds of a lost indigenous people.
Ghastly Whispers - Those driven insane by delving into dark and terrible secrets, as well as the ghosts of mad wizards who journeyed too deeply into the black essence of the Dark Tapestry, often manifest such haunts after departing the mortal realm.
Use your PC's Knowledge skills to glean information..This gives the GM a handy way of slipping vital information without it being too obvious about it.
Your Headless Horseman example Know: Religion should give you the methods of getting rid of it or Know: Local to remember some old wives' tale or even Perform: Sing to remember a rousing song about a similar haunt
I really like the idea of the professor and Adivion Adrissant sharing a 'friendship' akin to Professor X and Magneto.
If that were the case then Adivion Adrissant would probably one of the poll bearers at the beginning of the adventure and I'm sure the professor would have left him something rather personal in his will for Adivion. Perhaps something to remind Adivion that not to tread the darker paths.
Any suggetions or thoughts of what he would have left for Adivion Adrissant in his will?
I know there were mussings of what ever happened to the professor's spell book, and perhaps that could be a possible item but I was looking for ideas of a suitable fit to reflect thier 'friendship/rivalry.'
I love this thread.
I have had one of the PC's travel to Caliphas to visit Adivion in his town house "If anyone knows anything about the problems in Ravengro it will be Advioion..." unfortunately he is away in Leipistaht (sic) and cue the modified God's Mouth Heresy as the intro.
Pharasmin church have gathered all the PCs to inform them of the Professor's death (via Sending) no time to ride to Ravengro...do this little deed for us for a Teleport...
Lorrimor's spellbook is in two sections..."normal" spells and his "dangerous" spells. Adivion gets the dangerous one, Kendra the normal
Prolly not what you want to hear but...
I have an almost identical PC in Jade Regent with a rank in Profession: Brewer as Ameiko's brother who worked at the inn...Going for a one level dip in Cleric (Cayden Caylin) Conversion Heresy and Exploration Domains. Going to follow the Power Attack/Coragon Smash route.
Gives me a few options on roleplay and rollplay
permanent greater magic fang can be dispelled and not many DMs will let that slide. and the amulet is too expensive. and it sacrifices that precious natural armor bonus from the big 6 unless you find a DM that allows "Custom Items". i don't see that as Viable. a 3rd level spell can shut you down.
psst.....get a Ring of Counterspells and put a Dispel Magic in it...
...decapitated by the PC barbarian. The PCs loot the body (as PCs will) and then proceed to ignore it.
It occurs to me that an 11th level evil necromancer is a pretty good candidate for rising as an undead.
So: any suggestions as to the type of undead? I don't see his death as being the sort to trigger a ghost. A wight or something would be fine, but the PCs would probably just whack it again -- the barb does just a stupid amount of damage. A spectre or dread wraith, maybe? Ideas?
Personally I would drop INT by a few points and boost either DEX or CON. Most of your spell selection don't have saves so a sky high DC isn't necessary. An 18 INT at start of play is good IMO
my mistake on the half ton. But my point still stands on the dead lift. Also, the bench press record is 1070, and the squat is over 1260 (1263?).
This demonstrates a str of at least 23.
and im pretty sure you're not looking at olympic records, because many record have been set using synthetic steroids... which don't exist in pathfinder.
where in the RAW does it say that PF hasn't got steroids?
Fing, I already read Treantmonk's Guide (it's nostalgic from my 3.5 days, actually)... however I'm still a bit unsure with a few things.
Ringtail, on #5, I'm thinking about a more versatile character. Also, the Summoner seems to focus on the Eidolon, which does not let him use the Summon spells... it doesn't sound attractive, but maybe I'm missing the point.
You can add Lawful or Chaotic templates now also...as a neutral you can chose Good/Evil/Lawful/Chaotic...
When did this happen?
This creature is summoned with the celestial template if you are good, the entropic template if you are chaotic, the fiendish template if you are evil, or the resolute template if you are lawful; you may choose any if you are neutral.
No idea when it happened...Ultimate magic perhaps...
If a player said before the comment, yeah I'm really paying attention to this guy, to see how this goes as I chat to him, yeah, he'd get a sense motive. But to just hand those out for a split second thing, sense motive on crowds or people for me takes more time, they've got to get a feel. If there is no chance to feel, all you can feel is the punch, it's surprise, and go from there.
Does it work both ways? If a PC just suddenly decides to punch an NPC that NPC doesn't get a Sense Motive because you as the GM wasn't "paying attention"?
Space, got a link to the druid? The Level 5 druid i slapped together is pulling around 26 unbuffed.
Just put up the very bare bones. Unless the damage calculator is off there is nothing fancy going on. Just lots of attacks with a high average and because there are a lot of attacks then I guess the odds of pulling a crit go up.
18 STR Power Attacking Talons x 2 +6 (4.5 +6), Bite +6 (3.5 +6), Fore Claws x 2 +1 (2.5 +6)
deionychus shape
EDIT: Dumped CHA 20 pt buy..WIS 15, INT 10, DEX 12, CON 14....if my memory serves right. Natural Spell, Imp Initiative and Power Attack. Human although Half Orc would work just as well
GM asks for a Sense Motive...
If you don't you have the danger of the players (not unreasonably) asking for a Sense Motive everytime they interact with an NPC "just in case". Subtle clues to discern a punch to the face from the GM isn't really all that fair
a 5th lvl wildshaped druid can do 42 DPR with no magic, no buffs, no animal companion against an AC22
EDIT: add an animal companion using Aid Other it rises to 62 DPR
EDIT 2: put on a Bull Strength and it goes to 87 DPR
Lot of humanoids and varied humanoid opponents, not all tanks, not all skirmishers, not all human (lizardmen, orcs, mongrelmen, sahuaghin) some undead rock up (not so good for the rogues, but there is always something smart they can do, and don't favour many high CR undead), lot of beasts
You know sneak attack works against corporeal undead in Pathfinder, yes?
*Change the name of Summon Eidilon to not include the word "summon", thereby stopping cheesemonkeys like me from taking an already powerful creature and giving him +4 Str +4 Con
I assume Augment Summoning...which doesn't work with the Eidolon...
Well, again if it makes you feel better make the d8 a d4 for argument purposes. 2 points on 1 attack doesn't change the guy much.
And this guy doesn't even get to take advantage of 8. The Eidilon will be large (an absurd +8 Str, for 30 if you put your bump in Str like I did above), and get reach on all attacks. Meanwhile the summoner can afford a lesser enlarge wand (3K) and toss out enlarged Black Tentacles (only the summoner has a version of this spel that qualifies for lesser metamagic). And the weakness of the eidolon dismissing if the summoner drops will be gone.
The druid's animal companion compares to a degree; but doesn't get low level spells like Enlarge person and the stupidly flexible evolution surge to enhance him. 2nd level spell can grant energy immunity, flight, or tremorsense. Not to say I don't think Druids aren't the 2nd most powerful characters in the game; they are amazing.
The level I picked is my current one, but actually a fairly weak level for the Summoner; he does "just get better".
The whole intent here is to prove the Summoner (and his "armor of invincibility caster" brother, the Synthasist) need a rebalance. I know my math; I've seen it in action. The summoner and his buddy really are a total package; buffing and casting all in one.
Once again, if you eliminated the Eidilon, the summoner would still be very, very good. That is one balance, but probably not as flavorful as other balance thoughts.
After this example do people still feel the summoner is "fine" on game balance?
Yes.
Its comparable to a melee focussed wildshaping druid and its animal companion.
BTW where are you getting +8 to strength from enlarge?
I part solved the issue in my game by crossing out the word NINJA on the HeroLab printed PC sheet and put the word ROGUE instead.
And added TRAPFINDING in crayon...
Well I disagree with both points. In fact the Rogue fulfills his puzzle piece perfectly, going above and beyond his role in the party. He can face, he can trap-find, he can manuever tactically.
The problem is it's easy to make a ranger or bard who can do all of that (including having the trapfinding class feature) as well as the rogue does, and more.
That's the crux of the problem. It's not that the rogue can't outshine other classes in his niches; the problem is it's possible to make a character that does everything as well as rogue does or better. Urban ranger is, essentially, the new rogue. All the trapfinding and hot urban action, while doing more damage, with better saves, and bonus feats, and spells.
Its not a new phenomenon. Even in 1st ED when "new" classes came out in White Dwarf or such they all seemed to poach a lot of the Thief skills. The trouble with the Rogue is 1) Too many threads dedicated to it. 2) It can easily be replaced by another class and therefore, IMO, brings nothing to the game.
A little question... I have to balance the XP reward for a 5 players group; for example...
Research topic, DC 10 => 40 XP
- 4 player party: 10 XP for each player
- 5 player party: 8 XP for each player
then to balance all I have to increment the XP of this research topic?
for example, DC 10 => 50 XP then each player gain the estabilished XP reward of 10 XP?
I am leading an adventure with a 5 players' group based on Carrion Crown ADVP. I have a little question about the reserach topics in the part 2 of the adventure: the XP awards must be split between all the players?
For example, the first research topic: Harrowstone, with a DC 10 check the XP award is 50 XP, then if I have 5 players each of them earn 10 XP (50/5)... is correct???
Sorry for my bad english and thanks in advance...
Simone
Yes...if you look in the CC section there is a lot of useful information there for you
Sharing slots for magic items, the Summoner either uses those ring slots, etc for himself or Eidolon not both. That's a little weakness there.
It stops him from benefitting from 2 characters worth of magic items, to be sure. Not sure I'd call it a weakness.
Well the Summoner in my game the summoner failed his saves because his Eidolon was using the shoulder slot for the Cloak of Resistance which would have saved him...crispy Summoner.
To be fair to the player he wasn't a d**k.
He had the courtesy to have the stats for all his SLA summons printed at hand so there was no flipping though books and stuff slowing the game down.
Personally I think a well handled Wild Shaping Druid and his companion is as scary or scarier....
I had a Summoner in my RotRL game.
Low levels he was indeed tough but then leveled out, it wasn't as scary as we thought it would be. In the end the Summoner used his summon SLA as it was more versatile than his Eidolon.
Observations:
You can build a killing machine Eidolon but that's all it can do. Summoning is more versatile with the buddy as a back up fighter.
The Summoner is the weak link, bash him and problem solved.
Sharing slots for magic items, the Summoner either uses those ring slots, etc for himself or Eidolon not both. That's a little weakness there.
I have seen a lot of people say the Eidolon is overpowered but 90% of the time its because there is build errors.
Overall I didn't find the Summoner dominating the table but an interesting class.
Maybe not what you are looking for but I didn't find the class OTT, it was played from LVL 1 to 12.... Until the encounter with a Necklace of Fireballs and the worse saves I have ever seen from the squishy Summoner.
ps - I thought the riding dog was errata'd out of the Summon Monster I list and replaced with a regular pooch... or was that an unofficial change?
They changed it in the Summon Nature's Ally list, but they missed it in the Summon Monster list...
Its a plain pooch in SM1 too...
Summon Monster I Spell: The riding dog is on par with creatures on the second level list. Looking at the book and the Paizo SRD the Riding dog is SM1. Some of the other monsters where moved up or down the list. Was the Riding dog a miss? Pending Error James Jacobs 12/21/09: "Change Riding Dog to Dog."
AND
So on the Summon Nature's Ally 3 list is the "Giant Lizard". Now in the Bestiary, I can only find one "Giant Lizard" and that's the Giant Frilled Lizard. I was assuming that was the right creature, until I started looking at the stats, and it seems pretty potent against the other creatures on the list. That wouldn't suprise me too much, the Ant Drone is far more powerful than it's SNA II brethren, as is the Riding Dog at SNA I. However, I am wondering if perhaps they meant the Monitor Lizard, which, although doesn't have "Giant" in the name at all, the abilities would fit more in line with the other SNA III creatures. Or is there supposed to be another Giant Lizard entry in the Bestiary that maybe got edited out, like the camel. Pending Error James Jacobs 12/21/09: "Change Giant Lizard to Monitor Lizard. (The lists don't support summoning a Giant Frilled Lizard, but you could probably add them to summon monster V or summon nature's ally V.) The Giant Frilled Lizard is so much tougher than a bison or an ape because it's something that probably would HUNT bisons or apes. It'd be best to compare the giant frilled lizard ecologically wise to a tiger or bear; it's a top-tier predator."
Please understand I wasn't trying to be rude about it Spacelard. I was coming at this from the perspective of someone who's played a summoning specialist (in 3.5 which I didn't THINK would have a huge playstyle change :P). I know how these things work, and I struggled from level 3 to level 18 working my summons for all they were worth.
Actions are precious, if a summon can't pull it's weight for the risk of summoning it, then you truly are just putting your party in jeopardy by summoning it, rather than shutting down the bad guys then and there with more immediate spells.
I think the nerf was only on the Ape...I remember a year or two back JJ (I think) saying they thought the STR on the Ape was lowered to make it a CR3 creature or such and to bring it in line with the Dire Ape
I'll put it this way then, have you guys ever encountered power gaming? How much dming have you all done? Have you run into it, and had to deal with it?
Have you had some players there to enjoy themselves--see what the game has to offer--play cool characters, and some there to just create giant stat blocks without character?
Because I have.
"What you see isn't power-gaming cheese but people playing using the PF rules effectively. "
Wrought is not effectiveness, it tears balance apart. You throw something at them that should be a challenge, some have difficulty, one guy eats it. As a dm you really have to watch those scores, and what they pile on. In the other forum, one guy at level 11 could take a great wyrm in a few rounds at level 11. He isn't just a few ahead in ECL, he's about ten ahead. That is not being effective, that is trying to break the system so it's just so damn easy.
Sounds like a problem with the tactics of the wyrm rather than the rules of the game.
EDIT: and as for my credentials on GMing...33 years or so...all editions of D&D. From my experience people cry "powergamer" because they don't understand the rules. And "cheese" comes from thinking they understand the rules.
DC 10. So the 'average' enemy has to roll incredibly low to fail the save and have the summon's action mean anything (and consequently, the action spent conjuring it.)
Pass.
then they can go in and Aid Other or bash... its situational sure but I don't think it deserved the snark
Ah, now I found it. Superior Summoning is the feat in question.
And yes, I can see how those elementals could be beneficial. I really don't like this idea of a paradigm shift to summoning hordes of lesser monsters as opposed to one good monster but I suppose it's workable.
I have to ask though, at what times would you guys see using the ape? (And don't talk about the climb speed, there are already fliers, including the aforementioned Air Elementals.
To be honest, never...
I tend to look at the extras the summoned critter can do beyond just hitting.
d3+1 Lemure Devils casting Doom...okay its DC10...
Dretch and Stinking Cloud...
Earth Elementals to Earth glide and scout...
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