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Cayden Cailean

Snorb's page

FullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 159 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Summon Monster/Nature's Ally really does need an expanded chart. This came up during my group's final Jade Regent session. Our oracle wanted to summon something to help put the hurt on the Regent's companions, but nothing in the core was sufficiently Chinese/Japanese; we settled for a behir.)

Ability score damage/drain effects need to be dragged behind the woodshed and shot; nobody, and I mean nobody, should have to recalculate a bunch of skills/derived effects on the fly because you're getting pounded with Rays of Enfeeblement/Clumsiness. (Incidentally, the -6 penalty from Bestow Curse, as well as Feeblemind's "Your mental stats are all 1s now" work as intended. I do not know why I'm wired like this.)

Fighters (and fighters only, not just anything with a full BAB) should be the only ones getting more than one attack with the same weapon in a combat round. 2e throwback ahoy~

Ah, well, this is why I have Microlite20 and Spears of the Dawn to mess around with. =p


Goblin Alchemist 20/Fighter 20.

"For the Dark One! XD"


Finally! I actually get to post some of the deities I did years ago and started reworking for a Microlite20 knockoff! ^_^x

18) Fuu, the Wanderer of Afar
Chaotic good goddess of freedom, luck, travel, and wind
Symbol: A green stylized symbol of a tornado.
Favored Weapon: Shortbow
Domains: Air, Chaos, Good, Luck, Travel
Worshipers: Adventurers, liberated slaves, wanderers

Fuu is often depicted as a green-eyed blonde human woman, wearing a simple green dress and well-worn traveler's boots. She is always smiling, and the wind itself seems to play at her clothing and hair.

19) Saint Amelia, the Mother of Mercy
Lawful good goddess of healing, life, medicine, and mercy
Symbol: Twin bandages wrapped around a staff.
Favored Weapon: Quarterstaff
Domains: Good, Healing, Law, Nobility, Protection
Worshipers: Healers, paladins, pacifists

Saint Amelia is most typically described as a short human woman with short red hair, kind blue eyes, and always wearing a yellow dress with a small white cape. She seems at peace wherever she walks.

Those who worship Saint Amelia are trained in the healing arts; her loyal paladins, however, earn their title through three miraculous acts-- healing a man's body is the first, and easiest, of these acts. The second is to heal a man's mind, and the third is to heal a man's soul. While what qualifies as healing body, mind, or soul may vary from paladin to paladin, all must be done without expectation, acceptance, or demand of any kind of reward.

20) Baldric Beerbaron, the First Forgemaster
Neutral good deity of alcohol, dwarvenkind, and the forge
Symbol: A warhammer, its head shaped like an anvil.
Favored Weapon: Warhammer
Domains: Artifice, Community, Fire, Good, Strength
Worshipers: Dwarves, craftsmen

Baldric Beerbaron is a dwarven male, tall by their standards, depicted with a fiery rust-colored beard with intricate braiding and decorations; otherwise, he is completely bald. He wears a tanned brown leatherworker's apron, and is never seen without his prized possessions- an adamantine anvil, a set of handcrafted blacksmith tools, and a brass tankard.


Shadow Bloodmoon wrote:

  • 15-pt buy.- I realize this isn't a variant, but a choice, however I want to set a standpoint.

  • 3d6 instead of 1d20.. I realize this changes the general idea of the game, but it gives more average rolls, making bonuses that much more important.

  • Players roll all dice.- Fate in the hands of the players.

  • Parry and Dodge rather than AC, but they would roll it, see above.

  • Armor is DR, corollary to above. Makes no sense to have it add to dodge or parry. Or does it?

  • I also enforce Background to earn traits, to help facilitate role-playing the character, but that's not so much a variant rule.

This is where I am at so far. I have other ideas, but this is the baseline. My question is would you play in this campaign and if so, what would you change, if anything?

...Huh. So that's how you do bulleted lists. =/

Anyways. Fifteen points, to me, is a little underpowered, but I made a pretty decent brawler for Iron Gods off fifteen points, so I'm cool with that.

Only real issue I can see with using 3d6 for everything is attack rolls. Unearthed Arcana has this as a variant rule, and mentions that critical threat ranges should be modified as follows:

  • Anything that was already a 20 (such as the blunderbuss) threatens a critical on a natural 16-18.
  • Anything that threatens on 19 or 20 (such as greatswords) now threatens on a 15-18.
  • Weapons that critical on an 18-20 (rapiers, katanas) or a 17-20 (keen greatswords) now threaten on a 14-18.
  • Weapons that critical on a 15-20 (keen katanas) now threaten on a 13-18.

Also, you can take 10, but not 20. You are able with 3d6 to take 16 (10 times as long) or 18 (100 times as long!) according to the Unearthed Arcana rules.

Since I've got the tab open, click this lil' ol' link for info on having the players roll all the dice. It mentions attacks/defense, saving throws, and spell resistance checks, so this might be a nice help for you. =)


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This is it. After three years, six books, and a mountain of dead characters... Closure. Felina, Everybody Dies, Survival, All Good Things, What You Leave Behind, Goodbye Farewell and Amen, We Can Change the World/No One Is Alone; whatever you wanna call it, this is it. The series finale.

Yes, my friends, this is the final Jade Regent obituary from Snorb E. Snorb.

Name: Koichi Matsui, The Jade Regent
Race/Class: Tiefling Samurai
Origin: Born in Seigyoku (our group's Japan), moved with his grandfather to Xianghua (group's China)
Adventure: The Empty Throne
Location: The throne room of the Imperial Palace
Cause of Death: Best. Critical hit. Ever.

END GUY!!!!1!!!1!1111!!!11!!: Yep. It seems quite appropriate to make the party's defeat of the final boss the last of these.

The Buildup to the Big Fight: After getting the blessings of the five ruling families, the party takes the goodwill built up by their badass recruitment of the three ninja clans, geisha gossips, and Jiro's ronin...

...and proceed to spend a week or so crafting magic items.

Fortunately for them, they did it in an area where time didn't pass as quickly-- the Island of the Dead.

As they head back to Jiro's family inn for one last point, they pass the event where Jiro's sohei are on the hangman's gallows. I switched that to "four people the Jade Regent had captured and dressed up as them, all to lure them out into a trap."

Me: (after the fight is over) Well, one of the stunt doubles adjusts "her" breasts underneath her clothing. An apple and pear fall out, and Qi, you can see she has a full beard.
Qi: ...This is so wrong.
Pan Li's Player: "You idiots!! You captured their STUNT DOUBLES!!"
All of Us: XD

I had to describe the rest of the party's "stunt doubles" as an ordinary woman wearing cat ears and a tail (because none of the Jade Regent's guards felt like getting a kitsune ear and tail set), the most insultingly blatant Japanese geisha stereotype imaginable, and a man dressed in a vanara fursuit. When asked about its origin, its owner said "the Jade Regent's men arrested me, shaved my dog in front of me, and then made me wear its fur!"

Pan Li: Nothing wrong with that.
Not-Pan Li: And then they made the dog soup!!
Megumi: Oh, what kind of soup?
Not-Pan Li: No! They made the dog INTO soup!!
Qi: ...Oh.

Hilarity Ensued: Once they left the capital's main square, they returned to the inn for one last buying spree. I mention to the group "Well, this is like that part in Final Fantasy IX where you come to the save moogle, and he tells you that this is the last time you might be able to save, kupo, so you should get what you need to do now before it's too late. And you do, and you go on, and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, bam. Necron." The group decides, "Y'know, instead of investigating this food shortage, let's just storm the damn castle."

I show them the blueprint, explain what needs explaining, and after some rules-related mishaps involving Cloud Walk, the group has their in. Instead of storming the castle and slogging through combat, they cast Invisibility on themselves, then Cloud Walk (this way, they look like invisible cloud versions of themselves) and enter the Imperial Palace on the fourth floor.

After searching the entire fourth floor, they go down a floor, and a couple of guest rooms and the tea room later, they decide, "Let's just go this way. It looks like a throne room, though."

Me: Hang on a second, Cory. I gotta be a jerk here and ask you to print out a few pages for me.
Cory: What? Well, all right, but you really should have done this before you got here.
Me: I know, but I wasn't exactly expecting you guys to bypass the entire final dungeon!
Cory: To be fair, it wasn't exactly intentional. =p
Me: Besides, this is that moment where you're approaching the throne room, and you see the box appear onscreen, "Behind this door lies unspeakable evil. Shalt thou put an end to this heresy? [Yea] [Nay]"

It's the Throne Room: The Jade Regent and his hangers on are waiting for them. Surprise, surprise. Pan Li marches front and center into the throne room, drops his invisibility in front of everyone, and demands the Jade Regent's surrender.

Jade Regent: Very well! I accept, vanara! (draws his katana) I shall be your second, if you so desire!
Me: (dropping character) Yes, that counts as his samurai challenge.

The combat begins.

I realize the Tactics part of the stat block might need some tweaking after Renshii is knocked unconscious in about two rounds. (Qi had Suishen, a sap with Sap Mastery, and black lotus venom on Suishen, plus a critical hit.) She goes down clutching her stomach, saying something about "the baby..."

The Jade Regent: We'll talk about this LATER, grandfather! >=(
Pan Li's Player: Hey, guys, does anybody else feel like we just walked onto the series finale of a soap opera? Like she's pregnant and everybody's getting killed one by one.
Qi's Player: Oh, wow. I would've just sapped her if I knew she was pregnant.
Me: Well, uh, she took Con damage, got knocked out, and got poisoned. The baby's kinda a red puddle on the Jade Throne's cushion...
Pan Li's Player: (to the healer's player) Cast Breath of Life on the baby!! XD

Once Pan Li gets the Raven Prince tripped and seriously injured, he asks him if he surrenders. The Raven Prince, deciding discretion is the better part of valor, says "I'm no idiot-- I'm only in it for the money" and backs off.

The Jade Regent finally gets some time to charge Pan Li. Thanks to his newly-purchased Swordsman's Flair, the Jade Regent gets to roll a grand total of zero attack rolls in this entire combat as he is knocked prone, his charge cancelled, stunned, brutally beaten, and finally, finally, thanks to Pan Li's Perfect Strike critical, gets Nighty Night.

The resulting flurry of blows drops him to -57 health. Pan Li's player describes what happens as "It only looks like I hit him in the head once, but I slam my quarterstaff into the side of his head over and over again!"

Me: All right. You hear and see his kabuto helmet give, followed by his skull.

Goretacular: Anamuramon gives a mighty Lavos scream, and bites it in another round thanks to Suishen, Pan Li, and Quickened Enervation.

Number of healing spells cast by the party this entire fight: ONE.

The Corpse Line, Book By Book:

The Brinewall Legacy

Duster Ross: Male human gunslinger, played by Mike. Best friend of Lin Mao, a female nekojin gunslinger (replacing Shalelu, who was rather busy at the time with Rise of the Runelords.) 'MURICA the stereotype, Duster was there "to kill your kung fu mans and sleep with your womens." Got his back broken by the decapus in Brinewall Castle's basement.

Night of Frozen Shadows

Hadji Abobo: Male human summoner/bard, played by Mike. Joined the party after Duster got bent in half. In the city of Tsai Tseng, he met a barbarian who didn't like him, and in a case of mistaken identity, took a rage-powered battleaxe critical to the guts.

Fhen Fahn: Female human summoner, also played by Mike. Joined the party immediately after Hadji got split in half by the barbarian, had the best eidolon ever: The Origami Bushi. Developed a crush on Vata after he saved her life fighting an earth elemental, found out Vata was banging the nekojin gunslinger, hired Qi to kill Vata's girlfriend but never actually paid her. Decided the proper answer to the question "Did you have anything to do with Lin Mao's death?" was "I caste Haste and get the hell out of Dodge." Was blown up by one of Vata's alchemist bombs.

The Hungry Storm

Nam Jung-Su: Male human monk/cleric, played by Damien. Looked like Aang from The Last Airbender. Was one of the initial party members, a student of Koya's. Was kinda a little bit bloodthirsty for a twelve-year old not-Korean monk, encouraging the party to kill about one fourth of the citizens of Iaquat because the hearthmistress was rude to them. Did something to piss Vata off, wound up getting Bestow Curse (-6 Constitution) put on him, followed by a negative encounter with Vata's alchemist breath weapon. Twice. Just to make sure he was dead.

Raju: Male human trapper ranger, also played by Damien. The son of Iaquat's village chief, surprisingly did not hold a grudge against the party for killing some of his closest friends. Died the very session he was introduced due to a yuki-onna. Many a laugh was had by the group when this beautiful woman surrounded by snow truthfully said her name was Yuki. (Damien said "I thought it was a made-up name! D:")

Vata Perada: Male air genasi alchemist, played by Ziggy. One of the initial party members, and had a crush on Lin Mao since childhood. Was kinda a goofball, responsible for getting quite a few people killed. Ultimately died alongside Raju and Koya during the yuki-onna fight. To be fair, he DID try to give her a potion of Reduce Person, but he did that to everybody.

Forest of Spirits

Mei Ling: Female human diviner, played by Damien. The particulars on her are a bit fuzzy, unfortunately. They met her in the mountains after leaving Iaquat, and when the group was ambushed by ninjas in Ordu-Agahei, she complained about being on the wrong end of a bleed attack while she was guzzling a couple gallons of healing potion. One of the other party members bashed her skull in with a mace while she was asleep, so I guess that solved that.

Mokiyama: Male kitsune oracle, played by Mike. Was absolutely awesome, starting from when he replaced Fhen back in Book Two. Had an absolutely hilarious one-sided crush on Pan Li which he played to total creepiness/hilarity. Was wrong on more levels than most PCs can count. Was responsible for murdering Mei Ling, and sentenced to commit seppuku with a bokken. He ran himself through with it instead of slashing his stomach open, but he drove it through his guts all the way to the grip and didn't cry out once, so... mission accomplished?

Twitchi-aroo: Male nezumi monk, played by Mike. Mike's final character before he moved to Barnegat, Twitch was supposed to be the group's guide through the Forest of Spirits. Unfortunately, Mike moved before the game finished, so he got pulled through a metal grating head-first by araneas and torn apart like rice paper.

Tide of Honor

Huda Mann: Male human bard, played by Ziggy. Don't quite remember how he joined the party, just that he replaced Vata after the incident in Iaquat. Was an utter goofball with his spell selection (as expected) and was fun personified (as expected.) Tragically, getting bored with Huda, along with losing his character sheet, contributed to his death, so he got eaten by a Magikarp the size of a house.

The Empty Throne

This was the least lethal book of the Adventure Path. Everybody lives, Rose! Just this ONCE, EVERYBODY LIVES!

The Final Party

Zhai Qi: Female human ninja, played by Booke. Sister of Zhai Jai-Li, the replacement Ameiko, and second in line for the Jade Throne should something happen to her big sis. Loved the vanishing trick ninjutsu, and one of the biggest regrets was telling her player about the master ninjutsu that granted Greater Invisibility. Went through half of the campaign with three fingers missing, only remembered to get them regenerated before the final boss fight. One of two characters to live through the entire Adventure Path from start to finish. Serves as the head of her sister's guard/assassin if need be, and is pregnant with Pan Li's child.

Pan Li: Male vanara weaponmaster monk/fighter, played by Cory. Best friend of Sandru, who sadly got no real character development beyond being driven to madness by Pan Li constantly renaming the caravan. Made Qi fall in love with him thanks to an Elixir of Love. Tripped every thrice-damned thing he fought with Perfect Strike, Greater Trip, Vicious Stomp, and Combat Reflexes. Loved the character, hated his combat efficiency. The other character to survive from Brinewall to la finale semi-grande. Ripped Renshii's bracelet from her unconscious body, proposed to Qi with it, so now he and Jai-Li are siblings-in-law. Started a trip-fu monastery in the Forest of Spirits.

Megumi Ito: Female human oracle, played by Damien. Just barely got the hell out of Ordu-Agahei after Prince Dakkar closed it off. Was actually a pretty decent character, and she helped draw some aggro off Pan Li during the final boss fight with a summoned behir (which we all decided was "close enough" to an Asian dragon.) Started a temple in the capital of Xianghua dedicated to charity healing, was soon summoned back to her homeland. Something about needing to find magical girls...

Tadaka Daka: Female kitsune sorcerer, played by Ziggy. The final character to join the party, she was unceremoniously ejected from the spiritual shogi board at the pearl merchant's house in Book Five. Did what all sorcerers do and went full evocation magic. Once refused a good spell simply because it didn't have the word "ray" in its name. Was very hurriedly leveled up to level 14 at the start of the final session. She continued her evocation research after the final battle, devoting herself to making evocation magic more powerful.

And that's everything. So, uh... let's just go out on this.


I still enjoy the apocryphal story of the Blake's 7 crew trying to film at the usual BBC Gravel Quarry Planet they used in the 70s and 80s for their many alien planets, but they kept picking up sound on the other side of the rocks they were filming at. Gareth Roberts goes over to investigate...

...and finds Tom Baker, in full Fourth Doctor costume, on the other side of the rocks, trying to figure out what was messing with the sound on that day's Doctor Who filming.

Also, Tom wanted to actually put Blake in the Tardis in one episode-- they just pass by each other with a "Hello, Rog." "Hello, Doc."


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DM Sez: You must go to the Hall of Kings. There you will meet with Logos, the magistrate currently ruling Silmaria until a new king is found.
DM Means: I wonder how long it'll take before one of you notices I'm just ripping off Quest For Glory V?

DM Sez: "Please, hurry, Warriors," the seneschal urges you. "Princess Sara... she's the king's eldest."
DM Means: First person to ask "Wasn't this how Final Fantasy I started?" gets a Core Rulebook hurled at him.

Players Think: Man, why do Snorb's games remind me of better games any of us could be playing?


LazarX wrote:

BESM D20 had a bunch of pre-packaged answers for you. :)

I owned that book once. Once.

This is one of the few things in my life I have come to terms with as A Mistake.

James Jacobs wrote:

Each one should be a different class, of course!

This might be the best solution. Fortunately, that won't come up until after Jade Regent (which might be in two sessions!!)

Tels wrote:

Magus, each Sailor Scout has magical abilities they can use, and can also toss it up in melee combat a little.

I think Sailor Moon's a cleric of herself, and Jupiter's primary class was Brawler before she went Sorcerer. (No good lightning spells at first level tho...)


Best class or classes in case my group wanted to make the Pathfinder versions of the Sailor Scouts?

I'm WAY too embarrassed to further elaborate.


James Jacobs wrote:
Snorb wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

One charge per minute for force fields.

I'm tracking and answering errata for the book over on its actual product page.

James, give brawlers more body cyberware slots! Having to choose between +Strength and +Constitution is not fun! ;_;

I was waiting for folks to notice that limitation!

There IS an item in one of the upcoming Iron Gods installments that allows you to implant more than one ability score enhancing cybernetic item... but you'll need to wait until then to check it out, alas.

** spoiler omitted **

That is totally awesome, even if a bit pricey. Thanks, James! =D

I'm a bit surprised that there's no extra options for cybereyes (like low light vision, darkvision, X-ray or infravision, &c.) or brain cyberware to improve mental stats (Wired Synapses! +2/+4/+6 Intelligence!) but maybe those are in the future.


James Jacobs wrote:

One charge per minute for force fields.

I'm tracking and answering errata for the book over on its actual product page.

James, give brawlers more body cyberware slots! Having to choose between +Strength and +Constitution is not fun! ;_;


DM Sez: Your stalwart band encounters three orc barbarians and their two goblin alchemist pals.
DM Means: .....and the bugbear barbarians coming along in two rounds, and lest we forget, two more goblins and an orc two rounds after that, none of which you heard coming.


Ipslore the Red wrote:
Snorb wrote:
#5 Ability score damage "miraculously" heals in between sessions.
It already does with some downtime. Drain is the one that doesn't heal.

My group knows about my vocal disdain for ability damage/drain and I've admitted (much more than once) about how ability damage I suffer "miraculously healed up" between sessions (which usually continue the same adventuring day for us.)

Meanwhile, I'm absolutely fine with Bestow Curse giving you a -6 penalty to a stat. =p


#5 Ability score damage "miraculously" heals in between sessions.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

That's clearly what the Cyber-Soldier Archetype is for. Now, if only we could get it on a Class other than Fighter. Gunslinger or Slayer (or both) properly reflect what most street samurai were really like.

Not enough cyberware slots on the cybersoldier fighter, and the implanted weapon bonus doesn't stack with fighter weapon training.

My plan for Iron Gods is a brawler who just beats aliens to death with her bare hands. The PRPG version of Muscle Replacements might do nicely =p


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Short Cynical Answer: Because (sigh) *~_TRADITION_~*

Longer Less Helpful Answer: Spell names like magic missile (or if you prefer, Magic Missile) are written in italic lowercase in Pathfinder because they're written in italic lowercase in both Fourth Edition and 3.5e.

They were written in italic lowercase in 3.5e because they were written that way in Third Edition.

They were written in italic lowercase in Third Edition because they were written that way in AD&D 2nd Edition.

They were written in italic lowercase in AD&D 2nd Edition because they were written that way in Advanced Dungeons & Dragons.

They were written in italic lowercase in Advanced Dungeons & Dragons because they were written that way in Dungeons & Dragons.

They were written in italic lowercase in Dungeons & Dragons because... well, I'm guessing because Messrs. Gygax & Arneson felt like it.

Companies may change, creators may pass, but standards never die.


Before I ask, this is not a question as to whether I can Pummeling Style some poor goblin with a giant starknife, or whether I can put the hurt on an orc with a baseball bat. I'm playing a brawler in Iron Gods the way Ioun/Irori/Club/Odjn/Doomguy made us: She is going to beat a bunch of aliens to death with her bare hands.

Pummeling Strike's description text says that for each attack in your power punch that succeeds, you roll your damage normally. I'm also gonna be taking Power Attack, so here's the question:

Do you add the Power Attack damage at the end of the Pummeling Strike, or once for each successful attack roll? This could mean the difference between doing 48-300 and 168-420 damage (all before Strength modifier multiplied by 14) on a critical hit at level 20.


Nakteo wrote:
One more thing to look at: The Force Field stat block says that it uses one charge per minute, but the text box says one charge per round. Which is the typo?

I think the general preference is use the stat block's text over the chart (so you have a force field worth a damn.)

I'm still upset all the good cyberware is on the Body Cyberware slot, and you only get one of those slots. Some of us LIKE characters with Muscle Replacements, Wired Reflexes, and Dermal Plating, Paizo >_<

(Note: Why yes, I also enjoy having characters with less than 0.5 Essence in Shadowrun, why do you ask)


Anything that does ability score damage/drain during combat, because bookkeeping six other ways to be hors d'combat = fun (in some alternate universe!)

Incidentally, Bestow Curse and its -6 to one ability score = works as intended. I don't know why I'm wired to work that way.


Azten wrote:
Snorb wrote:
Skald is almost as bad a bard as the bard
Whoa. Bards are not bad!

I'm allowed some bias here, because the last bard I played was in Wrath of the Righteous, and as I infamously described in that AP's obituary thread, he caught filth fever in the second session of the game, consistently failed every single Fortitude save over the next four or five sessions to shrug it off (thanks to his unmodified +0 Fortitude), and died of giant black widow poison in what I told my DM was "a mercy kill, thank God." (Yes, he failed every save vs. poison, too.)

Bards are absolutely fine once they survive the Level 1-3 Speed Bump, and I wholly admit that, but God did not want Nial Landen to live. XD

Ssalarn wrote:
Havoq wrote:
Snorb wrote:


Slayer is a better ranger than the ranger

Oh, give me a break. Exaggerate much?

Slayer does make for a great Rogue, but lets not get carried away here.
I've got to agree with this. The Slayer doesn't really even get into a lot of the stuff that makes a Ranger a Ranger. He does pretty much tromp all over non-Trapfinding Rogues though, and no small number of Fighters.

I already picked on the rogue before (with the investigator), and the slayer's a ranger/rogue. He's just a slightly better ranger with sneak attack instead of magic... so... yeah. Slayer is a better rogue than the rogue. Damn. =/


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Exactly as I messaged a friend about it last night:

Arcanist is a better wizard than the wizard
Bloodrager is almost as good a barbarian as the rage mage
Brawler is a better monk than the monk
Hunter is a better druid than the druid
Investigator is a better rogue than the rogue, but who am I kidding, what isn't these days
Shaman is almost as good an oracle as the oracle
Skald is almost as bad a bard as the bard
Slayer is a better ranger than the ranger
Swashbuckler replaces crappy gun rules and grit with crappy feat and panache
Warpriest was a bad idea from the word go and I'd be making less fun of it if they called it BATTLEPOPE like I wanted them to

My friend: Not fond of the ACG, huh? =p
Me: There's some good stuff in there. =p
My friend: I just found the best thing in the book. (He links me the art of the antipaladin kicking a piglet) You can totally tell that was supposed to be a puppy.
Me: Maybe somebody at Paizo yelled at Wayne to not make it a puppy?

Then cue discussion about how he was going to break the warpriest's sacred weapon ability with kukris and Slashing Grace until I told him the feat as written was absolutely worthless.

My friend: New game. "Let's play 'Break Warpriest's Sacred Weapon With Shuriken.'"
Me: XD
Him: Wait. Shurikens are exotic, aren't they? New game. Let's play "Break Warpriest's Sacred Weapon With Darts."


LazarX wrote:
Snorb wrote:
(Everything I wrote three posts ago.)
Pretty much the same save I'd replace Elves with Ellori, and Goblins with the wretched gnomes of Arcanis, the cursed result of dwarven/human matings. And I'd ditch tie flings along with asimar. Core defines what is "common" in a world and plane-touched should not be common.

Hey, it's common in the world I'm working on! XD

(Then again, I would love the official race rules of a d20-derived game to say "You know what? Write it in the blank on your character sheet. 'Human,' 'Autumn Elf,' 'Dragonborn,' 'Hobbit... err, Halfling,' 'Four Foot Tall Manic Depressive Alcoholic Dwarf,' that's perfectly fine. 'Tiefling With Leather Pants and E-Cups Barely Held Back With Studded Leather Bikini Top' or 'Supercalifragilistic Xtreme Dwarf-Forged Sentinel EX Ultra El Mutilatador Bloodsoaked Skull-Caving-In Bodyguard Fueled on the SOULS OF THE THRICE-DAAAAAMNED and Royal Game of Ur-Playing Robot?' Write *real* small.")


Humans because... well, look in a mirror someday. I don't think there's an RPG that doesn't default to "You're a human unless the rules say or let you say otherwise."

Dwarves, but as I flavor them in my mind, they're everybody's favorite plate mail-clad four foot tall Irish/Scottish/pirate-accented* perpetually drunk deranged lunatics with a (warhammer, war axe, urgrosh, crossbow) and a "Yar har har, c'mon lad let's set our hair on fire!!! Har ho hee har har!!" attitude.

*I'm kinda guilty of actually changing dwarven accents mid-sentence.

Elves, because you can't have manic-depressive midget alcoholics without their taller, pointy-eared, more uptight brethren. Elves, as far as this post and the setting I'm working on are concerned, are divvied up into three different subraces:

Summer Court elves (summer elves, or sun elves) are the bog-standard vanilla elf in your Core Rulebook.

Winter Court elves (winter elves, or snow elves) are the arctic elves from the Advanced Race Guide. They are the sworn rivals of summer elves, and tend towards psicraft as opposed to magic.

Autumn Court elves (autumn elves, or wood elves) are the more martial cousins of elves, maintaining their strict neutrality between elvenkind. I'd say they'd be the savage elves from the Advanced Race Guide, except with Silent Hunter instead of Eternal Grudge.

Tieflings, 'cause aasimar are stppd. (Plus, I'd like to think angels have better things to do than spend time knocking boots with humans.)

Goblins, 'cause I love acting as these little dumbasses, even if it tends to go against my "You must be this tall to join the party" mindset.


Arcanist, mostly because it plays like a Fifth Edition caster, and I enjoy 5e casters, but also because the arcane exploits more or less act as extra spells. (Somebody remind me to work on my variant arcanist that actually does use the arcane exploits as spells. It's been too long since i looked at that Google Doc.)

Slayer, partially because I get to make my snark about how it's a better rogue than the rogue because it has a better Hit Die and BAB. Also, it could make a pretty good assassin minus that whole "Thou Must Be Evil" thing the actual assassin class requires because (NO OFFICIAL ANSWER GIVEN).

Fighter, mostly because I'm a big fan of this underdog. Also tower shields.

Bard, because not only are they a great buff/unbuff class if done right, you can also hide behind the mountain of dead bards when things go wrong!

Alchemist, because I enjoy having to keep track of a consumable per-day class ability by drawing a little Bob-Omb from Super Mario Bros. on my character sheet. (No. Really. I have done this, and modified the drawing based on discoveries. Safe Bomb was the Bob-Omb with little blush stickers.)

Monk so I can not only make random Bruce Lee/Jackie Chan combat yells with justification, we also get a class that fist fights with the power of anime/ki.

Inquisitor because every inquisitor I've ever seen or played in my group turned out to be an unkillable juggernaut of a character.

Samurai, because katanas. That is all the explanation you get. Katanas.


WolfenFenris wrote:
Snorb wrote:
74. According to the stories of our ancestors, this gray world has no name-- merely a catalog number. A magnificent mansion is the only structure visible, and its owner seems pleased to consider himself the only person in the omniverse to own his own planet.
Reminds me of Felix of Golden owning the planet Sanction in the book ARMOR...

This one was a combination of Catalogue #34689 from the old PC sci-fi RPG Planet's Edge, and Elign (owned by the multibillionaire Modian) from the equally old PC spacefaring game Solar Winds.


Set wrote:
Snorb wrote:
73. "Hello, thing in space. Consider us the Void Dwellers." A small planet capable of transit through the void? A supermassive and most unusual bio-organic ship? The technology, and possibly the magic, is nothing like anything seen on our world, but the locals seem (near-)human (and friendly) enough.

For the World is Hollow, and I Have Touched This Guy?

An old 4X game for DOS called Ironseed, actually. =p


Damnation, somebody already beat me to nightplanets (way back in #4).

71. This crystal-covered world has an extremely long orbit; what the locals would consider one year, the humans of the local system would consider a millennium. (...the reference is Rykros from Phantasy Star IV.)

72. This seemingly abandoned space station is most definitely artificial, there's no doubt about that. Judging by the multitude of scaffolds, unusual tools, and half-finished superstructures, something caused the inhabitants to flee in a hurry. But what?

73. "Hello, thing in space. Consider us the Void Dwellers." A small planet capable of transit through the void? A supermassive and most unusual bio-organic ship? The technology, and possibly the magic, is nothing like anything seen on our world, but the locals seem (near-)human (and friendly) enough.

74. According to the stories of our ancestors, this gray world has no name-- merely a catalog number. A magnificent mansion is the only structure visible, and its owner seems pleased to consider himself the only person in the omniverse to own his own planet.


So my group has our planet, and each of us has a certain portion of it that we get to develop all for ourselves. The planet itself is called Arret, which is "Terra" backwards. ("Terra" being Latin for "Earth," not a reference to Final Fantasy VI.)

I'm giving an extremely brief and truncated gazetteer of Arret, mostly because the world's not technically done yet, and I don't exactly know every single regional name offhand anyway.

Corydon: Our group's version of ancient Greece, named after the country's creator. It's notable for being entirely shrouded by an antimagic field, so human characters hailing from this region get psionic powers instead. (Corydonite humans replace their human bonus feat with Hidden Talent.) Or they can be monks. (I'm assuming that this isn't a reference to monks being psionic in Fourth Edition.)

The Free Mountain Territories: Dwarven lands, along with humans. I don't really know too much about the Territories otherwise. ;_;

Maranha: Ancient India. Named because, well, I played ActRaiser a little bit too much.

Seigyoku: Samurai Japan, just after the Warring States period. The Sapphire Palace in the capital of Kanmuri is alleged to border a plane where time does not pass. Named this way because seigyoku is Japanese for "sapphire." (...and kanmuri is Japanese for "capital." I'm not very creative at names.)

Sejong: Korea, without the deranged lunatic up north and most definitely without the absolutely disgusting Joseon Dynasty sexism. Named for the sixteenth-century Korean ruler.

The Tiger Reich Nazi Germany in full plate. They worship the Tiger, and have a particular hatred for all things demihuman. The Society of Thule serves as the arcane support for the Reich's military.

Xianghua: Ancient China by way of our group. Currently under the thumb of the Jade Regent, but not if the group has any say about it. Was originally named Chong Guo, but I changed it not only because another series beat me to it, but because I can actually spell and say Xianghua the same way twice.


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So one of my friends started running a Second Edition game a couple weeks ago, and we get some characters created (after having to explain to a couple of friends how THAC0 and pre-2000 Armor Class work) and we're off on the obligatory first-level "raid a tomb of the DAAAAAAMNED" adventure.

We have a couple combats, we realize that I only have one healing spell for the entire group per day, and we run into some kind of tomb defender/undead champion. He gives us some threats about what he's going to do to us, my cleric whips out her holy symbol, gives a Sailor Moon-ish speech about turning the undead, and I roll my turning check.

Natural 20.

Mike the DM: Awesome! Okay, he is turned as a Special Undead.
Me: (checks my notes. I notice that I'm nowhere near powerful enough to affect Special Undead, such as named undead with class levels)
Cleric: (holding her holy symbol of The Heart between her and the skeletal champion) .....
Skeletal Champion: .....
Elf Fighter: .....
Her Equally Elven Mage Husband: .....
Human Greatsword Fighter: .....
Cleric: ...... =D??
Skeletal Champion: .....=D
Mike the DM: Initiative time! =D


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DM Sez: You and your opponent struggle and strain against each other, but even with your might, you can't hoist him!

DM Means: I don't care if you have Greater Grapple, a +6 Belt of Giant's Strength, and Throw Anything, you're not gonna start Golarion's space program by hurling the bard into the sun. And even if you could, he's not gonna reach the sun in six seconds, I don't care what the rules for thrown weapons say.


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DM Sez: The knight readies his shield, quickly taking a combat stance. He seems offended by your attempts to cast Charm Person on him.
DM Means: That was mighty bold talk for a guy with only six hit points.


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Amy the Alchemist: Good thing I learned how to make incendiary bombs after all that business with the drow! ^_^ (tosses a bomb)
Invisible Assassin: (catches fire) AAAARRRRRRRGGGH!!!! Oh my God, I'm on &$#%ing fire!! Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!
Stan the Sorcerer: Hey, do you guys hear something?
Paladin Paul: What, right around where Amy threw her bomb?
Invisible Assassin: Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh oh god oh god oh god
Rina Rogue: I dunno, something's glowing there, but I can't see it, and that means I can't sink a couple knives into its back.
Amy the Alchemist: Well, it's screaming about being on fire, and... oh, there's some visible fire now. I didn't know fire elementals just popped out of nowhere!


.....Yeah. They actually went ahead and pulled this on me.

Basically, the group whom I've been giving rather hilariously insulting obituaries about in the Jade Regent Obituaries thread finally managed to get the aid of the Three Monkeys, and a nice discount on top of it for killing Sikutsu Senaka's evil brother (albeit just by marching up to his manor with the monk shouting "Yo! I'm comin' ta kill ya!" then... comin' ta kill him.) The money they made for selling O-Sayumi's samisen of oracular vision helped them, too. (Gotta love major cities and their one-stop 24-hour Ye Olde Pawnne Shoppes, huh?)

So. They easily buy the aid of the Emerald Branch ninja clan, and use the Shinobi Fuhonsen to buy the Black Lotus's aid (their choice was "the ninja clan that's kinda sketchy, and the ninja clan that is sketchy!" "You know, we are all ninja. By definition, all of us are sketchy...")

Two clans down, they pays the Shadow Dragons their ten thousand gold koku, expecting their aid.

Shadow Dragon Rep: This isn't enough.
Pan Li: What? Yeah, it is. You said ten thousand koku!
Shadow Dragon: That was before you paid those dogs in the Black Lotus with the first coin ever paid to a ninja in Eyshan history.
Black Lotus Rep: (middle finger to the Shadow Dragon rep)
Pan Li: We had a deal! >=(
Shadow Dragon: The deal has changed. (pushes the stack of gold coins back) Twenty thousand koku.
Pan Li: Trip. (this is the vanara weaponmaster fighter/monk that has Lunge, Greater Trip, and Vicious Stomp.)
Shadow Dragon: You have made a powerful enemy today!! You will regret this!!

So. I initially have him Dimension Door out, but the group, Pan Li's player in particular, don't want me to DM BS our about-to-be-ex representative of a clan of elite merciless killers that might or might not be led by a sovereign dragon's whims out of harm's way. They wants a fight.

Considering the party is 13th level, and the poor bastard representing the Shadow Dragons is a 7th-level ninja, he is going to be easily killed.

Any way I can salvage this situation, like have the Shadow Dragons become a thorn in the party's side in Book Six? Boost the Shadow Dragon's combat levels up so he can provide a more-or-less fair fight? Or just have the other two ninja clan representatives dispose of the body and say "Well, that was stupid of him. Zazazaza (head nodding). Now the Dragons will need a new mouthpiece."


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You know, reading those deaths makes me kinda weird because the biggest threat to my party in Jade Regent... is my party in Jade Regent.

Anyway, I'm back, baby!!!

Name: Huda Mann
Race/Class: Human Bard
Origin: I... I don't know. Probably Maranha, our group's version of India.
Adventure: Tide of Honor
Location: Namidakawa Lake, en route to the manor house
Cause of Death: Lost character sheet, DM BS-ing in replacement character

.....What?: No. Really. We killed a character because he lost the character sheet. That, and he really didn't like playing him anymore anyway.

So How'd You Manage This: The group set sail for the manor of the evil incestuous pearl merchant Chang Ling, and were accosted by two dragon turtles I hastily reskinned as giant Magikarp-esque... giant carp. They slew the giant fish, despite not being able to trip or sneak attack them, so I guess a challenging fight counts as a challenging fight.

When Suddenly: When we picked Jade Regent up months later, we had the aforementioned realizations about Huda. He made a replacement kitsune sorcerer named Tadaka, so I have to finagle a way to shoehorn this replacement in without resorting to "I HAVE TO GO NOW. MY HOME PLANE NEEDS ME. (doot doot do doot) NOTE: HUDA DIED ON THE WAY BACK TO HIS HOME PLANE." So I come up with "As you continue your journey to the manor house, you notice one of the giant Magikarp isn't as dead as you thought it was!!"

The giant Magikarp leapt over the raft, with a battle cry of "Karrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp~" and caught Huda in its mouth before disappearing back underwater. I described a lot of bubbles billowing to the top of the water.

Then a lot of blood.

Megumi, the oracle: Oh my God! He still had the Decanter of Endless Sake on him!! D:
Decanter: Bloop! (floats to the top)

Finally, the Magikarp floated to the top of the lake, stone cold dead, followed by what was left of Huda. The group mourned him for nearly a second, then started to loot what useful stuff they could.

Pan Li, the Monk/Fighter: Wait a minute, he was wearing chain mail. Shouldn't he sink to the bottom of the lake?
Chain Mail and Some of Huda's Torso: Blorp! (sinks)


FuelDrop wrote:

So... it can kill the tarrasque, then?

If you can hit the tarrasque 525 times, and you can survive the tarrasque's entire suite of attacks, then yes, you can kill the tarrasque with Excalipoor. =p


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Excalipoor: At first glace, this seems like a +3 keen holy longsword... but as you bring it in contact with your foe, the realization that that bastard Gilgamesh tricked you kicks in.

Regardless of critical hits, effects such as Smite Evil, the wielder's Strength modifier, whether he uses Excalipoor as a one- or two-handed weapon, or positive energy resistance/vulnerability, Excalipoor always does exactly 1 damage to its target. This damage bypasses any damage and/or energy resistance the target has, and may not be healed with fast healing or regeneration.

If Excalipoor is thrown, it does damage as a +3 keen holy longsword.


Excaliburproxy wrote:

The "heal after combat" mechanic is a little hard to deal with too. Can you keep a cage full of rats, let one out, kill it, and then heal?

No. No you can not, and if your character actually tries the Bag O' Rats strategy, he deserves to be in one of the obituary threads with the cause of death "Tried to exploit the rat sack one too many times, throat torn out by rat." =p

...I should probably add one of those "pick on something your own CR" rules like the gunslinger has to Treat Wounds.

It is sort of an odd thing. What you would like to do is only be able to heal damage from the last fight you were in. However, no one wants to keep track of that. In a way, the project is doomed to failure unless you want to get some kind of magical conceit in (and sort of limit it to uses per day or something).

Nah, it's less "all the damage from last fight" and more "the one hit point you lost in this fight when the goblin stabbed you in the foot, and about eight hit points you lost last fight when Skullcrusher Kiljarian tried to cave your helmet in while you were still wearing it." It could be much, much worse. It could be like Shadowrun Returns's healing, where Heal only repaired the very last injury you took (so if you take 45 damage from an unlucky assault rifle critical, and get grazed by an Ares Predator shot for 3 damage, you're not getting as much health back as you'd like!)

The intent, really, is to take some of the slack off the cleric so he can use the almighty godly powers he (allegedly) has instead of burning all his prepared spells on Cure Wounds. (I say it that way because the group I game with thinks that's all clerics do, apparently.)

Maybe they could just heal 1d12+wis every hour treating someone starting at lv 2? Multiply it all by x2 at level 4 and then x3 at level 6 and so on.Then let him treat multiple allies at once eventually. I think resource-less healing with a caveat (needing an hour or so of down time) is not such a stupid idea given how cheap level 1 cure light wounds wands are.

This sounds something like 13th Age. I do loves me some 13th Age, so I'll have to check how Heal worked in that again.

DISCLAIMER: Cure Light Wounds are cheap, but Lesser Vigor wands are more cost-effective!

If you can find a copy of the Investigator playtest, maybe use that as the base? Like you could use your inspiration points to effectively cast heal spells and call it an "inspired fix". Take out the talents and I think everything fits together quite well.

I have the Advanced Class Guide playtest, actually! Love the arcanist! Under the impression that the investigator's inspiration points should scale either like d20 Modern's action points (roll more d6s as you gain levels) or Fifth Edition's fighter superiority dice (roll larger dice as you gain levels.) I should probably mention that on the Investigator thread.

.....Hmm. Maybe, just maybe, something inspiration-esque could fuel Treat Wounds. Maybe.

Stay tuned.


I'm actually kinda surprised that my craptacular nonmagical healer class got this much attention!

Anyway, the entire genesis of this class is, hilariously/weirdly enough, the Buck Rogers XXVc roleplaying game-- specifically, the Genesis version of Countdown to Doomsday, where one of the available character classes was, indeed, Medic. (The pen and paper version of XXVc, incidentally, says that a party from XXVc can easily kick the living crap out of an AD&D 2e party, despite using the almost exact same rules, so your mileage may vary.)

The XXVc Medic was quite literally the only person who could restore hit points (after combat, which is where I kinda cribbed the mechanic from.) One of the medics in my playthrough of the Genesis game, despite having AD&D's equivalent of the poor BAB progression, actually kills people better than one of the warriors in the group (mostly because I let the game run one combat on autopilot, and said warrior tried to use a frag grenade as a melee weapon. Let's just say that he killed the guy he hit with it, and leave it at that.)

My own issue with the medic, dead levels aside, is this: What does the medic, this Pathfinder with the combat might of a lowly sorcerer or wizard, skilled in the healing arts, actually do in combat? Even a sorcerer or wizard has ways of helping to kill opponents.

I do like some of the ideas in the thread so far, and I'll try to see where they can fit the best.


This is why I originally said "yeah, I don't think a nonmagical healer would work!" =p (that, and too many dead levels.)

Incidentally, Gunsmith, I looked up the Healer class. This is the first time I have ever seen the Healer, and I've been playing D&D for eleven years. (I have heard of it, though, so I guess it was like some kind of bogeyman among my group.)


About a month or so ago, I started working on the Book of Nine Cheese, which was nine classes that, to me, seemed to have a particular niche ability that's not commonly seen in Pathfinder.

One of these classes was the Medic, which I made mostly because I think the Heal skill is really undervalued. If you're relying on magic or psionic healing, there isn't much need for mundane healing. The medic's goal is to keep her allies in good health, even if she isn't a spellcaster.

The problem: I just can't quite think of any additional abilities for this class. There's a few dead levels. =/

The Medic:
The Medic
There they go again. The fighter has so many arrows sticking out of him he resembles a pincushion, the wizard’s trying to keep his composure despite the acid burns that cover his body, and the thief’s busy trying to hold her insides in with the one arm that wasn't ruined by combat. But that’s fine. You’re here for them. Under your skilled care, your friends will be up and at them in no time-- at least, until the next battle.
Role: (words about the medic’s role)
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d6
Class Skills
The medic’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (local, nature, planes, religion) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), and Sense Motive (Wis).
Skill Ranks Per Level: 4 + Int modifier

Table 6: The Medic
[1/2 BAB, Good Fortitude and Will saves]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The medic is proficient with all simple weapons and light armor.
Healing Knack (Ex): At 1st level, the medic gains Skill Focus (Heal) as a bonus feat at 1st level.

Treat Wounds: The medic can only use one treat wounds ability at the end of a combat. If she has more than one ability, she can choose which one to use.

Treat Light Wounds (Ex): At 1st level, the medic can make a DC 20 Heal check at the end of a combat. If the check is successful, the medic can restore 1d8 hit points +1 per medic level (maximum +5) to up to six patients. The medic can choose whether or not to include herself in this treatment. It takes one minute of work to perform this treatment.

Treat Moderate Wounds (Ex): As Treat Light Wounds, except it restores 2d8 hit points +1 per medic level (maximum +10), and it takes three minutes of work to perform this treatment.

Mercy (Su): At 3rd level, and every three levels thereafter, a medic can select one mercy. Each mercy adds an effect to the medic’s Treat Wounds ability. Whenever the medic uses Treat Wounds to heal damage to one or more targets, the target(s) also receive the additional effects from all of the mercies possessed by the medic. A mercy can remove a condition caused by a curse, disease, or poison without curing the affliction. Such conditions return after 1 hour unless the mercy actually removes the affliction that causes the condition.

At 3rd level, the medic can select from the following initial mercies.
Fatigued: The target is no longer fatigued.
Shaken: The target is no longer shaken.
Sickened: The target is no longer sickened.

At 6th level, a medic adds the following mercies to the list of those that can be selected.
Dazed: The target is no longer dazed.
Diseased: The medic's treat wounds ability also acts as remove disease, using the medic's level as the caster level.
Staggered: The target is no longer staggered, unless the target is at exactly 0 hit points.

At 9th level, a medic adds the following mercies to the list of those that can be selected.
Cursed: The medic's treat wounds ability also acts as remove curse, using the medic's level as the caster level.
Exhausted: The target is no longer exhausted. The medic must have the fatigued mercy before selecting this mercy.
Frightened: The target is no longer frightened. The medic must have the shaken mercy before selecting this mercy.
Nauseated: The target is no longer nauseated. The medic must have the sickened mercy before selecting this mercy.
Poisoned: The medic's treat wounds ability also acts as neutralize poison, using the medic's level as the caster level.

At 12th level, a medic adds the following mercies to the list of those that can be selected.
Blinded: The target is no longer blinded.
Deafened: The target is no longer deafened.
Paralyzed: The target is no longer paralyzed.
Stunned: The target is no longer stunned.

These abilities are cumulative. For example, a 12th level medic's treat wounds ability heals up to 4d8+12 points of damage and might also cure fatigued and exhausted conditions as well as removing diseases and neutralizing poisons. Once a condition or spell effect is chosen, it can't be changed.

Treat Serious Wounds (Ex): As Treat Light Wounds, except it requires a DC 25 Heal check, restores 3d8 hit points +1 per medic level (maximum +15), and it takes five minutes of work to perform this treatment.

Treat Critical Wounds (Ex): As Treat Serious Wounds, except it restores 4d8 hit points +1 per medic level (maximum +20), and it takes ten minutes of work to perform this treatment. If the medic includes herself as a patient when using this treatment, she takes a -5 penalty to the Heal check.

Minor Medical Miracle (Ex): At 10th level, the medic can save a character who has reached -Constitution hit points. If the medic can tend to a character who’s been dead for three rounds or less, she can make a DC 30 Heal check. If the check succeeds, the dead character can make a DC 15 Fortitude save to stabilize and be restored to 0 hit points. If either the check or the Fortitude save fail, the character is beyond help.

Medical Miracle (Ex): At 20th level, the medic can save a character who has reached -Constitution hit points. If the medic can tend to a character who’s been dead for three minutes or less, she can make a DC 40 Heal check. If the check succeeds, the dead character can make a DC 20 Fortitude save to stabilize and be restored to 1d6 hit points. If either the check or the Fortitude save fail, the character is beyond help.

Dead Levels: 2, 4, 8, 11, 13, 14, 16, 17, and 19. Yeesh.


I'm working on a character-- I'll have him up within a day or so!


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Magic shouldn't be just a rote set of incantations, gestures, and rituals designed to consistently and safely produce the same effects with the same ingredients. To me, being a mage should be less about "[yawn] Slay Living, [yawn] Fireball, [yawn] Summon Monster IX, [bored] Power Word Kill, I have trivialized the combat for the day" and more about "holy dog carp u guyz i can totally set teh orc army on fire liek a Christmas tree but it might kill us all! Should I do it anyway TOO LATE!!! i already made the thaumaturgy!! XD"

......All right, maybe that's a little too extreme, but my point is that magic should be:

*Powerful- mages should be rightly feared for their powerful magic.
*Fickle- just because you know how the spell should work doesn't mean it's going to be true. Even your cantrips cause ripples in the Arcane Sea.
*Inherently dangerous. You might not like what happens when you don't account for those ripples.

So how do we make mages the powerful/feared/likely to get screwed over?

Option 1 - It Only Hurts When I Cast
Microlite20 had in its default rules that all spellcasters actually burned their own hit points to power a spell (twice the spell's level + 1). You could do it this way to make magic more of a "Guys, we NEED this, the situation's that bad" thing than "Look what happens when the goblins line up in a fifteen foot cone and I cast Burning Hands! They go '(ANGUISHED SCREAMING IN GOBLIN)'" scenario. (And reward mages who specialize by reducing the cost of spellcasting for their specific school.)

Option 2 - Maybe I Should Visit the Acadamae More Often
You could have a mage make a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell. If he makes it, the spell goes off without a hitch; if he fails by 5+ or rolls a natural 1, that's when the bad things happen. I'm talking stuff like he burns away some of his life essence (yay, Constitution damage!), accidentally gates in a couple elementals (who might want to bludgeon the mage and his pals to death), the spell has the exact opposite effect, or the mage finds his spellcasting suddenly cut off for a few hours. Be creative, but be fair.

This should not be something easily mitigated by other effects- the Constitution injury can only be healed by time, not magic; the accidentally summoned elementals do not give an experience reward; the mage doesn't go for his stock of wands and scrolls- when he's cut off for 1d8 hours, the flow of mana means he's out of the spellcasting fight for one to eight hours.

Option 3 - Burn ALL the Books
Or you could just make magic dangerous by ripping off a rule from Wheel of Time d20. You gain a mage level, you get 1d6 permanent Insanity points. Once you reach a certain threshold (too lazy to check) and the Fun Stuff (for the DM) happens!

Alternately, you could borrow the class, uh, "feature" the maho-tsukai from Oriental Adventures has (which requires your character to be corrupted by insanity/darkness already). Every time you gain a level, you have to make a Will save to avoid taking another maho-tsukai level (and thus further condemning yourself to whatever tarrasque-filled eternity of agony your character's earning!)


Air0r: Blue mages might be best served either doing a DC 15 + twice spell level-or-so Spellcraft check (for spells/spell-like abilities.) Not too sure about supernatural abilities, but I think a blue mage should have some kind of way to access those. (Of course, the problem is, does our domino-masked mage cap his spells known like a sorcerer? Add them to his grimoire like a wizard? Does he even use Vancian magic?)

Excaliburproxy: You know, I forgot Dark Knights were in FFX-2! And wow, they actually get more stuff than Cecil did! (Never played FF11 so I can't exactly judge that game's Dark Knight abilities.)

Oooh. HP fuels dark knight spells. "Y sure you can cast Inflict Critical Wounds, Malebolgius! That'll be nine hit points, boyo. >=(" (and to avoid the whole "Burning HP to attack! Heal meeeee!!" effect, those HP don't come back for a while. And I realize this is hypocritical of me, considering I hate ability score damage/drain but don't mind Max HP damage.) I'll check out the dark knight stuff when I get more time. =D

Gunsmith: I know, it's all meager and needs more, I just wanted to get what I had before I forgot/got sidetracked with a microlite20 thing I'm doing. Besides, it's more of a "what do *I* want out of my elfgames that Wizards and Paizo just aren't giving me?" situation. (That and I'm kinda stuck at the end of the barrel with a couple classes at the moment. =p)


Nerk, if we want to submit a character, should we do it here or in the new thread?


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After reading through the entire reprint of Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon, I kinda realized that all the Sailor Guardians are the worst D&D party ever. Every single one of them is an extremely-specialized sorcerer (Sailor Mercury only learned ice-based spells, Sailor Mars only learned fire-based, &c.) with a few exceptions:

Sailor Moon: Multiclassed sorcerer/cleric (her holy symbol is the Silver Crystal. So... technically, she's a cleric of herself?)

Sailors Jupiter and Uranus: Multiclassed sorcerer/monk.

Tuxedo Mask: Considering the smoke bombs he has in the manga, I think he's actually a multiclass alchemist/fighter (with Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Thrown Roses.)


Changed my mind about the Medic class. She's in now. ^_^


Gunsmith Paladin wrote:
Snorb wrote:
The Luckster
There has to be a better name for this. There has to be. Hell, call them the Gambler since you mentioned gambling right there in the first sentence.

I typed the about-to-be-renamed luckster out at 1:15 in the morning, I'm entitled to a few stinkers. =p

(But seriously, he's now the gambler.)


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The Pitch
Ahoy, everybody! Feel free to scope out the meager beginnings of a few class concepts I've been tinkering around with/on Google Docs! Comments, suggestions, critiques, concerns, telling me I'm wasting my dear sweet time, all are welcome!

The Document
The Book! Of NINE Cheese~: Niche Classes For Pathfinder (A work heavily in progress.)

The General Intent of These Classes
The Blue Mage - The blue mage is intended to be exactly as he is in Final Fantasy V: You go find a wizard, piss him off, somehow survive the Quickened Disintegrate he throws at you, and once you kill him, now you can cast Disintegrate!

The Gunner - Think like Yuna from Final Fantasy X-2. Or if you've never played FFX2, think a gunslinger/monk hybrid. You flurry with guns.

The Karateka - The karateka's intended to be an alternate class for the monk, one more focused on unarmed fighting and using ki. Karateka ki can be used to wholeness of body (just like a monk!), gain fast movement (like a monk!), or even charge up a hadouken (and yes, you're allowed to make the hand motions and shout "Kame-hame-hame-hadouken!" as you charge it.)

The Luckster - Life's quite a gamble, isn't it? The luckster's all about, unsurprisingly, luck. He can spend luck points to alter the results of any d20 roll he doesn't particularly like (so long as it affects him) and with more levels, can affect damage rolls.

The Medium - This is supposed to be like the Shaman class from Shadowrun Returns, where you used consumable fetishes or concentrated hotspots to summon elementals. You only get to have one out at a time, and the longer it's out, the more likely it is to shrug off your control and return to its elemental plane (or become a free spirit and start bludgeoning everything within line of sight to death, so I hope you've got a good Charisma XD!)

The Sentinel - He's big. He's dumb. He's tough. He can take the hits like a champ. The sentinel's intent is to be a bodyguard for the party, offering a shield bonus to adjacent allies, switching places with them, taking hits for them, and having armor be Damage Reduction as well as protection. Debated giving him a d12 Hit Die, then I realized that's just plain silly.

The Thaumaturgist - This is intended to be an alternate class for the arcanist, which I realize isn't even finalized yet, but whatever. I like the class as it is. Anyway, the thaumaturgist has access to (almost) all of the arcanist's arcane exploits from the word go, and those are its "spells" instead of actually using the wizard spell list. He gets an arcane pool (just like the arcanist) and in the event that he blows his arcane pool and needs more in a hurry, he can burn his own hit points for mana! (WARNING: Mana burn may result in serious injury and/or instant agonized death.)

The Ideas That Didn't Quite Make It
The Dark Knight (not Batman) - This was supposed to be like Cecil from Final Fantasy IV (either the GBA or DS version), where you could spend HP to make your weapon do additional Unholy damage, but there's already a class that can do that without maiming themselves. (Besides, I think that's literally all a Dark Knight gets.)

The Medic - As much as I would love this to be false, the Heal skill is always going to be outstripped by Cure Light/Moderate/Serious/Critical Wounds. Could have adapted some ideas from Buck Rogers XXVc's medic class and the d20 Modern dedicated hero/field medic combo, though. Hmm. Maybe.

The Shapeshifter - As the name says. Didn't make it because, well, that's already the druid's shtick.


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So, here comes the ramblings of a very tired, bored man:

Arcanist: At first glance, arcanists play like the mage from the D&D5 playtest. This is not a complaint. The complaint is that despite being a hybrid sorcerer/specialist wizard, you get none of the wizard specialization abilities nor permanent access to her sorcerer bloodline abilities. Having to split Blood Focus on what's essentially Spell Focus (Specialized School) or using something that you should already have access to is just not something I want in a class.

Bloodrager: I actually kinda like this. Having magus spells but only while raging is a pretty reasonable tradeoff for less HP and having your rage powers chosen for you (by alternate universe sorcerer bloodlines, it seems!) I only think that bloodrage should be (2 + Con mod) rounds/day and have spellcasting available from first level, but I was never too good at that Precious Thing called "game balance."

Brawler: I, uh... Wasn't there already a fighter archetype that let you fight unarmed reasonably well? This loses the fighter's weapon training in exchange for maneuver training. I don't really like maneuvers, and I would really prefer the +X to hit/damage bonus to fisticuffsmanship over, say, tripping someone or pushing them away or playing Monkey Snatches the Peach. The class plays like a tougher, armored monk, but I just want a monk class that can hadouken someone with ki, or run on walls/water, or can move their speed and flurry like Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star.

Hunter: "It's like the druid and the ranger combined to form a new class... called the druid." This is a druid with less spells. You can easily excise what little ranger aspects the hunter has in exchange for boosting Animal Focus's duration and/or uses per day, but at the same time, this could easily have been a druid archetype.

Investigator: My best friend said "Investigators feel more like Jack the Ripper than Sherlock Holmes" when he looked over this, and I gotta agree with him. I didn't know investigators enjoyed stabbing people in the back, or had experience crafting and using deadly poisons. The common complaint about this that I've seen, both here and on Something Awful, is that investigators make the rogue obsolete, and I can understand why- sneak attack and rogue talents belong to the rogue, and yet another class poaches those. Inspiration to improve d20 rolls is interesting, but I don't think you should have to blow an investigator talent (or, Heaven forbid, a precious feat!) to improve the +1d6 you get. You should get more/bigger dice as you level, I think.

Shaman: I was expecting something like a Shadowrun Returns shaman, where you can summon elementals and have them fight for you. Instead, we got this. It's an oracle that's not shackled with its curse. Replacing the curse is the wandering spirit, which looks to me like an oracle mystery you can just swap every day if you want (in addition to your permanent mystery/spirit). Spirit choices influence your choice of hexes, but I don't see why you can't also pick hexes from the basic witch's hex menu. The flavor's interesting, I'll give it that.

Skald: It's a bardbarian!! Singing your allies into a berserker rage is interesting from a flavor point of view, but I would prefer the bard's singing to actually help me (why is it "accept a crappier barbarian rage, or get nothing at all?" Also, glad to see that the "unconscious targets are willing targets" rule that lets you get teleported or married while unconscious also lets you get enraged through music!) I'm just not enjoying this mechanically. Bards get more useful music, and barbarians get a more potent rage.

Slayer: It's a ranger! With less hit points and trading spells for sneak attack! Why wasn't this a ranger archetype?

Swashbuckler: It's a gunslinger that trades guns for rapiers. Some of the deeds are interesting, but I don't think this can do anything a fighter can't already do. And if you're using rapiers as a fighter, why are you a fighter?

Warpriest: Don't we already have a cleric/fighter combination? I think it's called the paladin? Why would I play a warpriest which is just a paladin without its iconic Smite Evil ability? Could I just play a cleric and call myself Battlepope instead? Why can't we have a class called Battlepope?

Final Thoughts
The bloodrager and shaman are pretty all right, and need a little tweaking. Arcanist is salvageable-- it needs a lot of work regarding blood focus. The investigator fills that nice "illusionist/thief" niche, but my real issue with it is that the investigator, like the ninja, makes the rogue obsolete.

Slayer and hunter, in the opinion of One Fan, could be better served as archetypes for their base classes, instead of twenty-level new classes.

My main issue is with the swashbuckler, the warpriest, the skald, and the brawler, and it's a big issue: What do these classes do that makes them stand out from the gunslinger/fighter, or the cleric/fighter, or the bard/barbarian, or the fighter/monk? In my eyes, they just seem mashed together in a melange of "eh, this looks fine enough to me."

I just don't understand what the hell happened. Three years ago, we got the alchemist, cavalier, inquisitor, oracle, summoner, and witch. Two years ago, we got the magus. Those classes were awesome. They were unique (aside from magus supplanting the eldritch knight, but who actually uses prestige classes?) They had their own distinct feel and playstyle, and it was wonderful. Why can't we have anything like that in Advanced Class Guide?

Why can't we have a monk that's like Sabin from Final Fantasy VI, who can suplex the damn tarrasque?

Why can't we have a class called the sentinel, whose sole job is to take the beating for the party and draw aggro and say "Hey! You! Hit me! Attacking me's a lose/lose game!"

Why can't we have a psionicist class, who can manifest a few psionic powers infinitely, but at great personal risk of head explosion or psychic nosebleeding?

Why can't we have a class that can summon elemental beasts from nature, and control them at the risk of having them escape control or turn on their controllers?

It's stuff like that that I want in my D&D, and my Pathfinder.


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Have gold left over after getting a melee weapon, ranged weapon, and light source? Buy a knife!!

Daggers are always useful as tools, and just in case you get grappled, that crossbow or longsword you bought can't be used in a grapple. Daggers can.

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