Snerrak's page

Ah, I see. I misinterpreted what you meant by your statement, my apologies. You were saying something more like "whatever the reward track is, be cognizant that there exist people who will grind out scenarios to power through the track faster than 'normal' play." Is that a correct summation of your viewpoint? If so, I think that just advocates roughly the same thing I'm advocating -- that the rewards for doing this be mostly minor, yet appealing enough to report sessions.

Bonus card upgrades and die bumps are nice, but with a 50 session gap between rewards, it won't come up often enough to be all that useful, especially since die bumps don't "roll over" at the moment. I still strongly believe that gap between each reward should be no more than 30 sessions to fit in with a typical season's length, especially if the rewards are "Choose one of your characters to gain X" rather than something the player themselves unlocks (for example, a one-time-use reroll).

Maybe something like a character reward every 15 reported sessions (i.e. applied to a specific character), with an additional extra every 30 reported sessions would be good. This would equate to an extra 2 things per character assuming you play one character through one season at a time. Nothing major or game-breaking. It'd look something like the following:

Sessions - Bonus
15 - Choose a character to gain a die bump
30 - Choose a character to replace one card in their deck with another card of the same type and same or lower Adventure Deck number. For example, Basic B Weapon to nonbasic B Weapon for a new character, or a Blessing 2 with a different Blessing 2.
30 - You may reroll all dice on a check after the result is revealed; take the new result, even if it is worse (one time use)
45 - Choose a character to gain a die bump
60 - Choose a character to replace one card in their deck with another card of the same type and same or lower Adventure Deck number
60 - You may reroll all dice on a check after the result is revealed; take the...

Hello Skizzers,

Essentially your current understanding, and my interpretation by what you meant, are the same. In no way is this something static, so anything can be changed. I personally like having a challenge to make it to a large bonus as an incentive, but it's all up to the guys at Paizo to decide on whether they want something or not. Until then, I'll just keep working on the scenarios with my local VA and the others and see what comes out of this if anything.

Regards,

Snerrak

Slight correction: while you can indeed replay the same scenario 50 times, the reward always comes the FIRST time that you successfully complete it. You cannot decide to "hold off" gaining the reward until a future replay. You do get deck upgrades each time, but you will probably have exhausted the pool of worthwhile upgrades at that tier long before 50 tries.

Telling people to grind scenario replays is not a fun nor viable strategy. Any rewards must be fully attainable by playing through each scenario in a typical season exactly once. For character-based rewards this should be the max, while general rewards can require multiple seasons' worth of scenarios. When I say character-based I mean things like "Choose a character; that character gains X" -- a good example of these are the AP rewards that let you treat certain loot as basic for a character.

The card game is a fundamentally different game from the RPG. There is no reason that the reward track needs to be similar between them, but lots of good reasons for it not to be. The track should be attainable by the common group of somewhat-dedicated players; that is, players who play though an entire season and only replay scenarios if they failed or someone missed a session. It would be good to assume these players are playing at a FLGS on the tip of the release schedule, meaning they will be playing only one scenario per week -- in other words, the fact an ACG scenario takes less playtime than an RPG one is irrelevant.

Hello skizzerz,

I'm not advocating that a person should grind out 50 scenarios with one character, but there is the possibility that someone might do that to obtain the rewards from my list in the event that it gets accepted by Paizo. Ultimately with how many characters that are available, no one would need to grind with one character.

So there are 70 characters available in the first 21 Class Decks with each having two role cards a piece. If each were played out fully with the current 130 scenarios, it would amount out to 18,200 sessions. Granted the likelihood that a person would do this is very low being that it would take at least three years and 41 days to complete if they were to play every hour of every day and had perfect scenarios that took 1.5 hours to complete. On top of that, it would take another 64 days to report everything under the same conditions with five minutes as the reporting time per session. Overall in this musing, it would take three years and 125 days to just do this. Woo, all the numbers and such.

Class Decks 01 through 07 - 04 Characters
Class Decks 08 through 21 - 03 Characters
-------------------------------------------
Total - 70 Characters

Season 00 - 29 Scenarios
Season 01 - 32 Scenarios
Season 02 - 30 Scenarios
Season 02B - 08 Scenarios
Season 03 - 31 Scenarios
--------------------------
Total - 130 Scenarios

This doesn't take into account all of the characters that can be used or unlocked from the base box in Organized Play. The following are the characters without specific Class Decks associated to their class on the cards:

Skull and Shackles: 12 Characters Total

Ranzak - Could potentially be played with the Goblins Fight Class Deck.
Jirelle - Earned as an Organized Play reward.

Wrath of the Righteous: 13 Characters Total

Adowyn - A class deck is yet to be released for this character to be used.
Arueshalae - Earned as a GM reward at PaizoCon to be used with the Rogue Class Deck as I understand.
Crowe - A class deck is yet to be released for this character to be used.
Ekkie - Could potentially be played with the Goblins Fight Class Deck.
Enora - Earned as an Organized Play reward.
Shardra - Earned as an Organized Play reward.

Rise of the Runelords: 12 Characters Total

Tup - Could potentially be played with the Goblins Burn Class Deck.

Mummy's Mask: 11 Characters Total

Estra - Earned as an Organized Play reward. A class deck is yet to be released for this character to be used.
Mavaro - Earned as an Organized Play reward. A class deck is yet to be released for this character to be used.
Yoon - A class deck is yet to be released for this character to be used.
Zadim - Earned as an Organized Play reward.

I would post when you would earn the characters from Organized Play, but I think having the statement "Earned as an Organized Play reward." is spoilerish enough.

Regards,

Snerrak

Snerrak,

I like the basic concept here but I have some issues with your specifics. First, the progression of cards sort of goes Basic->Elite->"Normal." Elite cards are eventually removed from the box but "normal" cards never are.

Overall the reward system is too complicated. Also it seems to be tied to one specific character for most of it, which makes it far less appealing as each thing is a "one and done." Also, I think your proposed ratio of sessions is out of whack - you can do about 2.5 card games sessions in the time for one RPG session, so that seems like a better ratio than 5 to 1.

One issue with giving too many game rewards is that unlike RPG GMs, the session reporter is likely a player as well. You don't want to sit down with a "new" character who has a deck made out of a bunch of non-Basic cards and multiple feats checked while your normal fellow players, who play with you all the time but don't report the table, get nothing.

Hello Ryric,

As I understand it, you can replay the scenarios as many times as you want provided that you are not out of the one above or below for Adventure number. So in essence, you can play a really simple scenario 50 times and then receive the reward.

"You can replay any Adventure Card Guild scenario as many times as you like, as long as your character is of the appropriate tier (see Appendix 1: Tier Advancement System). When you replay a scenario, you do not gain the scenario, adventure, Adventure Path, or tier rewards, but you can upgrade your deck." - Pathfinder Society Adventure Card Guild Guide Version 4.2; Page 10

It's just based on the total sessions for all of your characters. Being that you can only report for one character per session, it doesn't seem like it would be very easy, if you are honest about your sessions, to attain each reward level.

"Solo play is permitted in Adventure Card Guild scenarios, although we encourage you to find other players. You may play solo with multiple characters, and each character can gain deck upgrades and scenario rewards as normal, but only 1 character can be registered as an official Pathfinder Society Adventure Card Guild character, and only that character can gain a Chronicle sheet for the scenario." - Pathfinder Society Adventure Card Guild Guide Version 4.2; Page 7

I don't personally think that this would cause many issues with the character advancement or how the game is played during organized play as these are all minor upgrades and being that it takes generally a minimum of 50 hours per reward, you would not receive many or them for a long time. Granted, I have played sessions that took about 15 minutes with four players and others that took almost two hours for the same amount of people.

As far as the reporter goes, they don't really receive much benefit as they would need to report ten games in order to receive the added benefit of simulating the completion an eleventh game. The only time this really benefits them is for every 90 games as they would be sitting at 100 instead of 90 and it's only if they reported all of those 90 games.

As far as the "regular players" getting nothing that you mentioned, I wrote that every player would receive a point per session reported. The organizer is the one to receive the (Player ( X ) --- Organizer ( X * 1.1 )) fast track benefit. So I hope that alleviates your concern there.

As far as the deck upgrades go, it would only apply to the cards within your box and not anything from the set box. Every one of your characters would receive this benefit; not just one.

Looking at your post above, under my reward system you would only be allow to upgrade one or two 'B Basic' cards and nothing else if you were to start a character. With my total, none of these rewards would apply to me yet being that I am under fifty.

Lastly, I don't personally care if people have an upgrade in their deck or not as it only helps everyone overall. It's kind of like not allowing for a person to have the promotional cards they bought because you didn't buy the 'Iconic Heroes' boxes.

Regards,

Snerrak

Eliandra Giltessan wrote:

My local group has often mused that there should be some incentive to reporting. I'm at a loss as to what that could be though.

If you have any great ideas, let us know.

The reward has to be good enough to incentivize you, but not so good that it gives you an imbalance, even though it's only going to the person who reports the table.

There's also the question of whether it's even fair to limit the reward to just the reporter after the whole table has played (though I have to admit to kind of liking the idea of multiple players vying for the privilege of being the one who gets to report it)... but if you *don't* limit the reward to just one person, then it effectively becomes a reward everyone is getting every time, and it's hard *not* to overpower that.

Hello Everyone,

I know that this thread has grown a little stagnant, but I still wanted to post this to see what others think. Some of these ideas are branched out from others along with my personal take on the topic.

So the PFS GM Table Stars work in the following fashion:

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"GM Stars

In order to both encourage more reporting from GMs and event coordinators and to offer a “bragging rights” type of reward for GMs, Pathfinder Society Organized Play offers a GM ranking system. This system uses stars to denote the activity and experience of a given GM. The
stars are visible on your Pathfinder Society ID card, which you can download from paizo.com/Pathfinder Society and print off each time you gain another star. You can earn up to four stars for running (and reporting) a certain number of games, as follows.

• 10 sessions reported as GM = 1 star
• 30 sessions reported as GM = 2 stars
• 60 sessions reported as GM = 3 stars
• 100 sessions reported as GM = 4 stars

You are eligible to obtain a fifth star based on a number of criteria. To obtain a fifth star, you must accomplish the following achievements.

First, a potential 5-Star GM must have run a total
of 150 Pathfinder Society game sessions, including at least 50 different adventures and 10 or more Specials or Exclusive events over your entire history as a GM.

Second, once you qualify to be a 5-Star GM, you must work with your Venture-Captain to arrange to run a Pathfinder Society session in the presence of a Paizo staff member, a Venture-Captain, or a Venture-Lieutenant. This designated Paizo representative will evaluate your rules knowledge, improvisational skills, preparation, and ability to provide a fair and fun experience for Pathfinder Society players.

Finally, at the recommendation of the Paizo representative, you may be granted a 5th star, which will be noted on your paizo.com user profile, on your Pathfinder Society membership card, and on your posts to the Pathfinder Society message board at paizo.com. Paizo announces and recognizes all 5-Star GMs by name at both Paizo Con and Gen Con annually. There may be special five-star GM events and possibly even future five-star GM rewards (in addition to the
existing four-star GM rewards)."

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I don't think that we should have exactly the same benefits due to the nature that theirs revolves around, but I do agree that we should get some benefits for being long standing players and possibly organizers as well.

The standard for advancement still plays a role in this as this is meant to compliment the current way things are accomplished. In that I mean that success 01, 02 and 04 for an Adventure award a skill, power and card feat respectively. Also, everything that has been reported be retroactively awarded if the player does infact meet the progression points that I mention below. Lastly, this does account for general replaying of scenarios.

So here's where my thoughts and a little bit of inspirations from this thread come in.

Instead of 'Stars', I think that we should have circles denote our group as a whole. Not an open circle like a hole, but a closed circle like you would fill in on a scanable test. It would represent cooperation and also our style of play being that everything is in rounds with a minimum of five and a maximum of thirty depending on the players you have at your table that also could be round. Ultimately, it wouldn't matter what color they were represented as, but I think that a nice middle of the light spectrum green would be good. Again, no real preference unless they wanted to let us have a purple color or something to the nature of '#A54EFF'. The following is an example of the color I mean:

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https://www.hexdictionary.com/hex/A54EFF

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The Player Progression for circles would be as follows with each session earning one point per session reported:

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O = 50
OO = 100
OOO = 200
OOOO = 400
OOOOO = 800

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This Player Progression follows the general equation (x * 10 * 0.2) and would not need to go past five stars until / if the RPG side decides to add more stars down the road. This would entitle the following benefits to all players on each of their characters:

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50 Sessions = Upgrade One 'B Basic' to One 'B Normal'; 'B Elite' if none exist.
100 Sessions = Upgrade One 'B Basic' to One 'B Normal'; 'B Elite' if none exist.
150 Sessions = Gain One Die Bump and Note it on your Character Sheet Blank Space.
200 Sessions = Upgrade One 'B Basic' with One 'B Normal'; 'B Elite' if none exist.
250 Sessions = Upgrade One 'B Basic' with One 'B Normal'; 'B Elite' if none exist.
300 Sessions = Gain One Skill Feat and Note it on your Character Sheet Blank Space.
350 Sessions = Upgrade One 'B Basic' with One 'B Normal'; 'B Elite' if none exist.
400 Sessions = Upgrade One 'B Basic' with One 'B Normal'; 'B Elite' if none exist.
450 Sessions = Gain One Die Bump and Note it on your Character Sheet Blank Space.
500 Sessions = Re-Roll One Die on One Check Per Session.
550 Sessions = Upgrade One 'B Normal' with One 'B Elite'.
600 Sessions = Gain One Power Feat and Note it on your Character Sheet Blank Space.
650 Sessions = Upgrade One 'B Normal' with One 'B Elite'.
700 Sessions = Upgrade One 'B Normal' with One 'B Elite'.
750 Sessions = Gain One Die Bump and Note it on your Character Sheet Blank Space.
800 Sessions = Upgrade One 'B Normal' with One 'B Elite'.
850 Sessions = Upgrade One 'B Normal' with One 'B Elite'.
900 Sessions = Gain One Card Feat and Note it on your Character Sheet Blank Space.
950 Sessions = Upgrade One 'B Normal' with One 'B Elite'.
1000 Sessions = Re-Roll All Dice on One Check Per Session.

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This will give you enough 'Die Bumps' to resurrect a character once and also get you started out with a nice benefit of extra feats. If for some reason a character runs out of feats that they can take, they would receive no additional benefits. Ultimately, this should not make characters too powerful aside from maybe some of the Adventure One Scenarios as the card upgrades are only for 'B' Series cards. The reason I like the idea about using the 'B' Series is so that you don't have to start so far back with banished cards.

Organizers would go along the same progression path for their benefits, but I also wanted to ensure that Organizers received the extra added benefit of a fast track. I think this should be whoever owns the Base Box and Adventures should receive the fast track credit. In the event that you borrow a store copy or convention copy, it could be whomever is nominated from the group. Overall it could look something like the following:

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Player ( X ) --- Organizer ( X * 1.1 )

01 --- 01.1
01 --- 02.2
01 --- 03.3
01 --- 04.4
01 --- 05.5
01 --- 06.6
01 --- 07.7
01 --- 08.8
01 --- 09.9
01 --- 11.0
ETC... --- ETC...

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The only issue I can immediately see with this is faux reporting to earn the extra benefits, albeit an extensive process, but even this can be done on the RPG side. I think that there should be a cap of six sessions per day to ensure that it would cut down on the inherent ability to cheat. This would make it a minimum of 167 days to get to that 1,000 session mark in the case of a Standard Player and 152 days in the case of an Organizer In all actuality, if one person is to truly play six sessions, it should take anywhere from five hours to ten hours depending on a myriad of factors. I don't personally know anyone who has time for antics such as these, but some of you out there might.

Again, these are just my thoughts and a little bit mixed in from you guys. I would like to know what you think.

Regards,

Snerrak

Now we have the home of two VLs. Congratulations to my wife.

It's nice to have you on board Joe. I look forward to working with you in the future.

The reporting system has been this way for the past couple of days for both the RPG and ACG. It seems that the system has wiped out the scenario names from each of my event reports, but still has all of the character information in place. New reports can be made when choosing a previously finished scenario and will hold as if normally reported.

Hello Everyone,

Thank you for the warm welcome and the honor to be among the ranks of coordinators. I look forward to all of the new experience that I will come to know as I have always wanted to be part of this genre of gaming. I am always open to suggestions and ways to improve. Just like the rest of you, I intend to make this a great experience for everyone.

I hope to meet most, if not all, of you someday.

- Christopher R. Sundeen -