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Double Agent

Slim Jim's page

414 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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If you're a martial, multiclass.

1 barbarian [savage technologist], Extra Rage
2 cleric [travel/community domains]

-- You are strong, you are fast, your AC is good, your saves are good, you ignore difficult terrain, and you can use any divine trigger item.

At 3rd, you can begin any other martial class, or something with an animal sidekick (taking Boon Companion in the 3rd-level general feat slot).

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Eh. Evasion + sky high AC tend to cover the 'not getting hit' aspect of Nightcrawler. Heck, as a Magus you could even add in Displacement.
With the number of rounds the Secret Service dumps, he'd be Swiss cheese even with them being only 5% to hit. Ergo, he can't be hit while phasing.
The problem with this build, of course, is that it doesn't even start to kick in until 11th level (when he can grab Dimensional Agility) and only gets Dimensional Dervish at 15th unless you use the retraining rules. So that's a problem. Which is really the problem with most of these builds. Anything that relies on teleportation and physical combat needs to be really high level to work.

Another Nightcrawler feature: sort of a built-in Scry that let's him not only determine the layout of a sealed room he's never been in, but the position of targets he intends to teleport in to attack.

-- The guy's basically a capstone super who was *too* good, so the scripts reined him back and made him do dumb things and project vulnerabilities. (Nightcrawler is never again shown being so awesome in combat as he was during his first movie intro.)

avr wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
-- In this game, there's no way to teleport between each attack in a full-attack sequence.
Dimensional Dervish says hi. While not mentioned explicitly by Bram, they did mention the dimensional feats in general.

<forehead smack> ...yeah, that was under my nose the whole time, wasn't it?

- - -

Balls, they sure do tax-feat the crap out of Dimensional Dervish, and they're all General feats, too.

As far as Nightcrawler is concerned, it accounts for the full-attacks, but not the end of the round. Dimensional Dervish let's him move twice his speed and avoid AoOs in a flashy style, but it still leaves him fully-exposed and subject to being pumped full of holes on the enemy's turn, rather than safely tucked away in an alternate dimension.

-- And that's the real conundrum: how to avoid getting blown to bits by a dozen Secret Service guys in well-lit rooms and corridors without hiding places. He'd need a way to Vanish at the end of his turn...but Dimensional Dervish consumes his Swift action for the round.

Bram696 wrote:
The build I posted right above this literally does everything u said u cant do in the game... The only exception is limiting the number of times a day to around 10 times a day,...

And the limitation of one Swift action per round.

-- In this game, there's no way to teleport between each attack in a full-attack sequence.

I would argue that nightcrawler is not that hard to hit really... He gets hit all the time.
He only gets hit when a lazy script has a sudden need for an invulnerable character cruising on auto-pilot to suddenly do something stupid in order for ordinary schlubs to get the upper hand.
I dont see were u pull an insane 40 dex from.

Watch the video again; he's attacking from every angle in three dimensions while his targets are filling the air with a lead snowstorm, and doesn't get a nick until the very end, when... (queue sudden stupidity-onset for script reasons).

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Little do they know that the insane amount of coin they were just given is a minuscule fraction of its *true* value when combined with the three other pieces that reconstitute a major artifact lost for centuries...

Multiclass a level of Drunken Brute barbarian. Drink potions of Enlarge Person as a move-action.

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avr wrote:
One poster suggested that the drakerider cavalier in their party was a net negative, soaking up more party healing than they did in damage to the enemy.

Hey, that's a human rogue's job.

<ducks and runs>

If you think Brute vigilante kills his own party fast on a failed will save, you haven't see a Wild Rager barbarian going nuts lately. (To its credit, the Wild Rager is at least an apex murder machine in melee combat.)

- - -

Circuit Judge cavalier is quite awful: it trades away both Tactician and Challenge for access to a short list of inquisitor Judgments and the privilege of being AC-2 while judging someone. (It keeps the Order ability, although nearly all of them are of little use since they augment the forfeited Challenge feature.)

The result is a pale shadow of an inquisitor with a free horse and full BAB but no hooks to exploit either aside from proficiencies. Very few cavalier items work for the character because they usually bolster Challenge or Tactician, and as a result his judgment bonuses are merely obviating the fact that there isn't any decent equipment in the game available for him, leaving him quasi-equivalent to a fighter without bonus combat feats. Having to wait all the way until 12th for the equivalent of Second Judgment is excruciating.

HWalsh wrote:
I don't like E6. It boosts certain classes over others. Some classes end up way more powerful than others.
Well, that's not necessarily bad (a competent martial, for instance, should be greatly feared, not a laughingstock).
Gunslingers need to be outright banned.
Gunslingers are often banned anyway for wrecking verisimilitude. A gritty fantasy campaign where heroes regard mithril chainshirts as miraculous artifacts that save the day...will be immersive. A swashbuckling high Renaissance campaign where Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. is barechested with a touch-AC of infinity can also be immersive. But they do not mix well.
Abilities that "frontload" benefits are much more powerful. IE: "Divine grace" since it gives all of its benefits at level 2, vs an ability that gives +1 every 3 levels. It "puts casters in their place" but also guts Paladins and Bloodragers.

Divine Grace is powerful but paladins are gutted?

Provided the GM allows Fey Foundling and Greater Mercy in his campaign, paladins should be basically unkillable to hitpoint damage unless in their skivvies completely surrounded by enemies. With a headband, their Cha will be 20 by 5th or so with two smites/day and possessing a bonded item or mount.

Bloodrager: any class that can rage at 1st level will do just fine.

necromental wrote:
your book example doesn't work since urban barbarian existed.

Ultimate Combat (containing the Urban archetype) came out in 2011, so it's more recent than Orcs of Golarion (containing Amplified Rage).

Aside from that, we'll have to chalk this up to a hearty "YMMV" since previous discussions have not resulted in FAQs, staff clarifications, or fixing the other egregious typo in SavTech.

Grumbaki wrote:

Dagger of Healing.

Does damage like a normal dagger, but then heals for 2x damage dealt.

Well, be careful you don't stab any friends only one point from neg-Con.

Ancient Dragon Master wrote:
Amplified rage specifically mentions strength and constitution (not dexterity).

Amplified Rage (a 2010 book feat) mentions them in a general sense, as those are the attributes normally modified by rage. The Savage Technologist (a 2014 book archetype) changes the attributes rage grants its bonuses to.

(There are a couple existing threads regarding it dating from 2015.)

You're right about the other stuff (Snap Shot, Martial Focus).

I don't think Paizo will ever give a playable character race both an INT bump and a CON bump.

Wizards are overpowered as it is.

Majuba wrote:
Stat suggestion: Str 14, Dex 19 (17+2), Con 12, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 14 (12+2) {FYI Slim Jim, your point-buy is 23, not 20}
Yeah, that was garfed. (17,14,12,12,12,7 is 20pts, and 15,14,12,12,12,12, is also 20pts. (A gnome is mechanically better as a bard than the halfling as well, but that example of mine was just a quick dash-off.)
Feats: PBS, Rapid, Arcane Strike, { }, Manyshot. Throw in Precise if you feel you must....

Here's the main problem with archery feats in a bard (not archery per se, mind you, the feats): When your class is utterly starved for feats, you should be really strict about what gets in. Only those with constant in- and out-of-combat utility should be considered. Inspiring Mentor, for instance, lets you Inspire Competence in the entire party (imagine everybody constantly getting a +3 or more to Perception by 7th). Spellsong lets you conceal casting while "working a crowd".

If you choose a combat feat, it should get constant mileage: I.e., is the feat always in play? If it's not, dump it. For example, Point-Blank Shot is only useful if the opponent is within 30', and frequently they're not. Precise Shot only matters if the opponent is in melee, and frequently they're not. And no archery feat of any kind is useful if the enemy is an incorporeal, a skeleton, or other type that laughs off piercing, because then you're not even using your bow. Weapon Focus is nice, but how often does it make a difference? -- You're a bard, not a sohei or a GTWF with paired Fortuitous weapons getting eight or ten attacks. That +1 may only make an actual difference once every other play session for a bard.

Lastly, *cringe*: combat feat that eat Swift actions, horribly traps every one, especially when given to a caster. Kill them. Kill them all now. For example Arcane Strike. Use it every turn! Awesome! Getting +1 dmg all the time. ...and then you get pounced or are shoved off a cliff and discover you don't have an Immediate action available for breaking your Snapleaf. Ah well, you were getting sick of the character anyway....

High-level wizard controllers deal with bosses.

High-level bard controllers make your mooks his mooks.

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Jeraa wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Natural Attacks wrote:
...You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack....
This (second) sentence appears to flatly contradict the immediately preceding one, whose subject (the effects of high attack bonus) it is linking itself to by the use of the leading word "Instead...".
No. "Instead" means "ignore the previous method of gaining additional attacks, this is how natural weapons work"...

That's not how English grammar works when the word "Instead" is used at the beginning of one sentence immediately following another.

(It's no wonder these rules are F-balls confusing to parse by literate people.)

All the 2nd bolded sentence is saying is that if you have multiple natural weapons, like 2 sets of claws, you get 2 attacks (1 with each claw).

Well, that's "all" it would be saying if it hadn't begun with the word "Instead". It should have begun with "You" and marked a new paragraph to clearly distance itself from the previous one's subject. -- But it's still problematic, because it contains the same exact phrasing, "receive additional attacks", as the preceding sentence.

As it stands, a player can very reasonably look at that second sentence and think to himself, "OK, a rhinoceros can't get an extra gore at BAB6 because it has only one horn, but an elephant could because it has two tusks. Works for me!"

If you need actual evidence, look at any creature with natural attacks and a base attack bonus high enough to get multiple attacks.

Be that as it may, the existing wording leaves a lot to be desired if it the intent is as you maintain.

Davor wrote:
You're also forgetting: Less damage because a casting-focused bard likely doesn't take Arcane Strike...

If I have this straight, you're looking at: Arcane Strike, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Manyshot at 9th-level.

-- That's exactly 100% of your five feats in a non-human 6-spells class devoted to doing hitpoint damage. -- A human fighter would have four of those five feats locked down by 2nd level (substituting Arcane Strike for something else, probably Weapon Focus, for a relative +2 over the bard archer build until the latter gets bardsong up and running). Delay one feat in a (dex-rage archetype)/fighter multiclass, and it's up to +4 to hit over the bard archer at 1st level.

It is a painfully slow slog glacially accumulating feats with a bard, which is why I wrote: "You can either be a great bard, or a poor bard wearing a getting-up-to-mediocre archer skin-suit."

less damage because you have to reload a crossbow every round (or use a feat on a woefully inefficient weapon), less damage from not having point-blank shot or successive attacks, etc.

Repeating myself again: My "archer" bard was a gnome with dumped strength whose only archery feat was Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Repeating Crossbow, which he retrained out upon purchasing a Opalescent White Pyramid ioun stone. (He got a Wayfinder for that, too, gaining Weapon Focus as a resonant power.)

So, in the end he had no archery feats, but was getting off two shots as soon as Allegro. Plenty of room to choose from among: Spellsong, Lingering Performance, Improved Initiative, Noble Scion (of War), Inspiring Mentor, Harmonic Spell, Discordant Voice, etc.

You keep saying that archer bards don't work because you can do just as well with a few minor changes, but that just isn't the case. The math shows that archery is a perfectly viable, and even desirable, path for a bard to take.

If their goal is the be an archer instead of a powerful controller.

One concept is playing pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey as a fair-to-middling striker with a side-order of party support, and the other is an AP-breaking enchanter who wraps kingdoms around his little finger.

(That 2009 Treatmonk bard guide recommending archery is so old it ought to be written in Sanskrit. Bards can be so much better now.)

Quoting the relevant rule section twice, each time highlighting a different sentence:

Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.
In the previous debates in the messagebase, the quoted rules being discussed invariably include this paragraph up to only the bold-faced sentence above. (I don't know if the section has been expanded in recent years.)
Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.

This boldfaced sentence appears to flatly contradict the immediately preceding one, whose subject (the effects of high attack bonus) it is linking itself to by the use of the leading word "Instead...".

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I disagree with the sentiment that paladins and cavaliers set the standard for what are rideable mounts. They're very conservative classes, only using pretty low-fantasy mounts.

Oh heck no. As powerful martial classes, they get the crappiest of available mounts, and have to work at it to make them better than a sohei monk on a store-bought warhorse prior to the high-level game. "Truck" (T-rex) builds make 'em look lame, and a Hunter/Mammoth Rider on a huge arsinoitherium or mastodon will stomp even those into manhole covers.

(Smuggling your gigantic megafauna into the BBEG's high-society function is another matter; the paladin has you beat there: he snaps his fingers and *poof*, there's his horse standing next to the punch-bowl.)

PossibleCabbage wrote:

In my experience, the Paladin will only fall for doing "normal adventurer things" if:

- Your GM has an atypical view of how alignment works.
- Your group has an atypical view of what constitutes "normal" adventurer things.

I'll second that. I played a halfling paladin/rogue multiclass for two years in PFS under many GMs. I bluffed, I sneak-attacked, and I even picked a pocket a few times. But only after flipping the ol' high-beams to see who was nice and who was naughty. I wasn't a chaotic-neutral player trying to pass off BS under the mantle of righteousness.

Quoting verbatim my response in a similar thread:


Dont be that GM

Please please please dont be that GM.

...and exactly one post later this same person was suggesting that the OP pepper the campaign with temptations for the paladin to fall (but it'll always be his choice, of course).

In other words, to be precisely "that GM" that grates on the nerves of players of paladins.

- Just, for once, I'd like to klonk something bad on the head and feel good about doing a good job just like that other guy with twice as many feats, and then go to town and enjoy a good brew without 90% of my OOC roleplaying hooks involving how I have to choose between maintaining my honor but risk some sod going to the gallows, or save his ass with certainty but risk falling. (Imagine being a cavalier in which 90% of your OOC roleplaying involves having to deal with a colicky, incontinent horse when you'd rather be romancing the ladies.)

Has any GM, ever, tempted the barbarian to "fall" lawful? I wonder. (Speaking of other classes that routinely out-damage paladins...)

In an "evil-heavy" AP, does a paladin rock? Sure, until he's out of smites, which isn't very long, because, in one of those great twists of irony, in an evil-heavy campaign, you tend to use them all, and then discover that the last guy you just put down wasn't the Boss Bad after all, but instead just another lieutenant.

BretI wrote:
-1 Damage per hit
Offset slightly by a better chance of critting with a crossbow, and eventually even better with Improved Critical (which arrow-slingers typically don't bother with). -- But the main thing is just taking opponents out of the fight entirely, often before they've done a thing, with magic or supernatural class abilities that we've emphasized rather than sacrificed for archery. Given sufficient gift of gab, you can avoid combat entirely in many situations.
-17 lbs carrying capacity which can be made up for in a number of ways (dark wood bow, efficient quiver, wand of ant haul, etc) but costs you.
The two small races make great bards because they're best suited to minimal strength: carrying capacity is 75% but the equipment is 50% lighter. (And everybody eventually gets a haversack or a quiver anyway.) You can also get an animal companion at the cost of two feats (Nature's Ally and its thoroughly worthless "tax" feat Nature Soul), but I wouldn't recommend it.
-1 trait (Deadeye Bowman) and no choice in god worshipped

That's the aasimar's problem (if he takes Deadeye), not the halfling's (he wouldn't be using a bow).

Ambrus wrote:
I've been trying in vain to figure this out and would appreciate some insight. I have a character with a BAB of +7 and a natural Slam attack. The player is tired of making a single attack every round...

You should already be getting two attacks at BAB7, one a -5 iterative. It could be two slams, or two weapon attacks, or one of each (unless your creature type's physique somehow gums that up).

Archery as a tactic for bards is decent (you're at least getting a shot off). Archery feats? No, I don't like them.

Fourshadow wrote:
Deadly Aim can be a trap for 3/4 BAB characters.

Agreed. And making Dex instead of Cha the prime stat hurts bards. (That's strike #2.) Rapid Shot being another -2 to all attacks that you have to declare at the beginning of the attack sequence....strike #3.)


A stat array I'd use if going 20 pt buy would look something like:

Str 13, Dex 17 (15+2), Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16 (14+2) putting all your level-ups into Dex.

Let's make a comparison with a non-MAD stat deployment in a bard.

halfling (20pt array 17,12,12,12,12,12)
str 10-
dex 14+
con 12
int 12
wis 12
cha 19+

Result versus aasimar:
-1 hp/level
+0 fort save
+0 reflex save
+2 will save
+1 skill/level
identical AC levels 0-3
identical ranged attack-bonus levels 0-3
+1 social skills bonus and +1 spell/song DCs, +2 from 4th onward, and +5 if first major item is a Headband of Alluring Charisma rather than a Belt of Incredible Dexterity (or a magic bow).
+3 INIT, because this build takes Improved Initiative, which the archer does not have room for. (This can be stretched to +7 better with the addition of Wasp Familiar.)

Let's assume the aasimar build took the Deadeye Bowman trait (because it is a total gimme for archers, who are nuts to pick anything else provided they know it exists and are permitted to have it). It is, however, a Religion trait, meaning they'll forfeit access to any other trait of that type, and there are some that are very good for bards, such as: Alluring, Ambassador, Battlefield Caster, Defensive Strategist, Demoralizing Presence, Empty Heart Full Heart, Enchanting Conniver, Hatred of the Gods, Honeyed Words, Honey-Tongued ....and I still have two-thirds of the alphabet left.

- - -

If you're a non-human, you have only four feats by 7th level. You can either be a great bard, or a poor bard wearing a getting-up-to-mediocre archer skin-suit.

Thanks. (I did not know that.)

Let's change the title and un-jinx it, then.

Cyrad wrote:
The second sentence is a chunk of weasel words. The ability allows you to immediately attempt another attack of opportunity against the target.

That is one interpretation, and one I happen to prefer and employ, but I have seen it be an issue, and thus it being part of this FAQ request. There is no "immediate attempt" in the RAW wording, and the phrasing "can make a second attack of opportunity..." carries a different implication than "can make a second attack of opportunity immediately".

Note also that Fortuitous appears to be permitting two AoOs against the same target for the same provocation, i.e., similar to the Greater Trip + Vicious Stomp combo that eventually went to FAQ. (If Fortuitous were a feat, there'd be a reminder of the "Normal:" rule following the "Benefit:" section, and "specific trumps general" intent could be subsequently parsed. Alas, such formatting standardization is lacking in weapon enhancement descriptions.)

Because it says "a second attack of opportunity," you need Combat Reflexes or a similar ability to make use of this. This is probably why this enhancement only costs a +1.

These are arguments (even reasonable ones that I like, such as that one right there), but not FAQ clicks. Please click the FAQ button.

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The problem with Paladins comes from the alignment requirement.

Sadistic GM's love to break Paladins.

You saved the town from the Orc hordes? Now there are orphans at the Orc hideout. You made Orc children grow up without parents!! EVIL!! You are now a fallen Paladin...

That's not a paladin problem. (Any good-aligned divine caster would also be subject to this GM's whims.)

While funny if it could be make to work, I don't see the necessity of it anyway, since....

Unlike mundane armor, mage armor entails no armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, or speed reduction. Since mage armor is made of force, incorporeal creatures can’t bypass it the way they do normal armor.

Derek Dalton wrote:
I noticed no one mentioned the Samurai. They get Mounted Archery and lessen the penalty for it. They get the same limitations as a Cavalier so no flying mounts, sorry.

I really like samurai (and would go so far as to say that they're one of the better martial classes). The advantages of basic cavalier are Tactician and the ability to acquire the Horse Master feat (provided they're not an archetype which forfeits the prerequisite Expert Trainer class feature).

If you aren't interested in sharing Teamwork feats with your mount, and don't plan on more than four non-cavalier multiclass dip-outs, then samurai is arguably better: You get a better grade of melee weapons, and Resolve is a very powerful class feature.

In a straight-class bard, I dislike seeing so many precious feats devoted to a manufactured weapon.

Your bard will get a lot more mileage out of caster/metamagic and performance/song feats than he will a desperate focus in keeping archery damage up with the Jones. If you start lowering your charisma in point-buy to make dexterity your prime stat as well as MAD up strength, then you might as well just be a martial archer or an arsenal chaplain warpriest.

My "archer" bard was a gnome with dumped strength whose only archery feat was Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Repeating Crossbow, which he retrained out upon purchasing a Opalescent White Pyramid ioun stone. -- Bards generate a lot of numeric bonuses to damage, and it worked quite nicely with a Keen crossbow imparting a 17-20 threat-range to the bolt.

-- But that was back in the day before the Flagbearer + Banner of the Ancient Kings gimmick, which is just so damned strong that you're borderline nuts to even think about any other tactic as a support bard.

TOZ wrote:
44 clicks on this one.

That thread only concerns the Q1 part of this one, and I've seen both issues come up. The second part is IMO the more serious issue, since the first can be dealt with by simply taking Combat Reflexes (already a popular feat, and all of my builds with Fortuitous have it).

11 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

This is a FAQ request thread, not an "argument" thread or rules-query thread. (There's been enough of those already with exhaustive argumentation from all sides over the last few years, and they have not resolved underlying issues of English wording intent, i.e., "grants...more attacks of opportunity" as opposed to "can make...additional attacks of opportunity", etc.)

So please, hit the FAQ button, and let's get it resolved.

Fortuitous wrote:
This special ability can be placed only on melee weapons. A fortuitous weapon grants the wielder more attacks of opportunity. Once per round, when the wielder of a fortuitous weapon hits with an attack of opportunity, he can make a second attack of opportunity with this weapon against that foe at a –5 penalty.


1. Is it the intention that this enhancement bypass the normal limitation of one AoO per round (a limit normally increased via Combat Reflexes or the barbarian rage-power Quick Reflexes)?

2. Is it the intention that the "second attack of opportunity" be an additional attack undertaken immediately against the opponent which provoked the first, or is it intended to be a potential AoO which does not trigger unless the opponent provokes again in the same round (i.e., it increases the available pool of AoOs, as if a minor version of Combat Reflexes)?

Cevah wrote:
Since the wording states the enchant gives the extra AoO, I will assume it does that until officially changed.
Paying +1 bonus to get a single attack at -5 is not too cheap.

If it gave any schmoe a free swat after any AoO, it'd be far and away the best +1 enhancement out there. In fact, it is arguably better than any +2 enhancement, and most +3s. The Speed enhancement (granting an additional attack) is a +4 enhancement, and doesn't stack with Haste or Boots of Speed (whereas Fortuitous does).

If my guy unloads 40+ on a swat, getting another 40+ as a freebie is obviously way more powerful than anything else on the +1 list, even Furious. (And if a bone-stock raging/enlarged/polearm barbarian going crazy with his new toy doesn't tax one's imagination, try putting him on a Fortuitous AoMF Greater/Quick Bull Rush gore beast mount while sharing Paired Opportunists. Imagine such a "unit" being attacked by an enemy who provokes; said enemy eats four AoOs (one from each, plus two Fortuitous). The round AoO-counter resets, and TagTeamDuo unloads with Greater maneuvers on its turn, again getting two additional attacks from Fortuitous. Yeesh...)

Nor do I think that extra attack if unbalancing to the game.

The GM having to double or triple the monsters, or giving them above-CR-paygrade supernatural abilities, just to keep up the appearance of a challenge unbalancing, and no extra half-dozen PoP1s for the casters is going to be remotely equivalent in terms of output-acceleration off a low-level weapon enhancement.

Claxon wrote:
Look up Treantmonk's guide on building a god wizard.

Also look up the "Blockbuster" wizard guide (for the other side of the argument), and pull from both.

(The only wizard I ever built was elf, about 60% blaster and 40% god/utility, with a hawk familiar for super Perception. Starting with Teleportation-forcus helps a lot. Pure "god" would be stronger at high level, but that's typically just a matter of retraining feats. In the meantime, just ending some encounters with a single spell is iconic and hella fun. Blaster also eases your GM's worries that you're going to "break" everything by spamming divination magic -- you can *easily* be totally overpowering once 4th-level spells come online.)

Merellin wrote:

So, I have always loved magic users in video games, If there is a way to be a magic user in a video game I play, I will take the chance to play it. I love magic. But in Pathfinder, I have played a melee Cleric, Two Alchemists, A Cavalier and a Brawler..

I am interested in trying a caster, A full arcane caster like the Wizard, Sorcerer, Arcanist or Witch, But I worry, I worry about running out of spells and being useless for the rest of the day.

It costs a wizard 12.5gp to scribe 1st-level scrolls, so really it's only a problem for your first session. Buy some guard dogs to protect you at low-level (have fun role-playing your crappy Handle Animal score, so the dogs are constantly disobeying you).

elf wizard 20pt
str 7
dex 16+
con 12-
int 19+
wis 14
cha 7

They way I see it, your job as a archer cavalier/samurai is to deal damage.

My "job" (party role as a martial front-liner) is to stymie the enemy.

If a fall to a saving-throw, I fail.

Doing 90% of the damage of some other guy? Bah... I'll take the slower-but-more-certain victory over the faster-but-much-riskier version.

Claxon wrote:
Edit: I just realized that some of goods that you want are simply the base parts of the Samurai chassis, specifically Resolve.
Yes.You do know that you can be a Samurai and take a cavalier order right?Of course. But Order of the Warrior is where all the delicious re-rolls come from.
The Order of the Warrior is very defensive, and it will weather things better than others, but at the same time it's damage output will suffer and it puts the character in a reactive roll rather than an active roll.
The guy on his feet will always out-damage the one who is out-cold.
IMO, it's better to quickly destroy the enemy (and thereby completely avoid having to make saves or take damage) then it is to try to survive them.

That's the theory, anyway. The problem is that it doesn't not account for traps and opening-salvos.

My policy with martials is to never getting taken out of a fight just because I blew a save in the first round.

Anecdotal experience is anecdotal.

Be that as it may, I have memories of many cake-walk scenarios that would have gone immediately pear-shaped if the lone competent front-liner had gone down in the first round. Other players may not remember the times their characters did not die as a consequence of me making my saving-throws, but I do.

But don't play Harsk. Nobody wants Harsk.

These dry dissertations are not what was promised by the thread's title.

(Where are the succubus-grapplers when you need them?)

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Travel + Fur are ACME rocket-powered roller-skates.

Lady-J wrote:
If the intent of the item was...

When dealing with RAW, one's guesstimation of RAI doesn't matter, because it's entirely subjective.

(I, personally, do not think that the intent was for a +1 weapon enhancement bonus to grant every steroid oaf with Dex 10 an additional free attack every time he snags an initial AoO with his polearm. In fact, if said oaf's raging AC is horrible anyway, he might as well just dump Dex to 7, throw it all in Str, take Quick Draw, and load his back up with multiple Fortuitous weapons so he can get three or four extra attacks a round. Because the GM would be totally fine with that nonsense at 5th level.)

Chess Pwn wrote:
When you're an archer with no attack bonus via class, it's harder to make swiss cheese than you think.

I seldom have trouble hitting with a full-BAB class (particularly after multiclassing a few levels of something else for rage). Making saves? -- That's a different story.

I'll take the re-rolls every time.

While the Order of the Warrior has some interesting abilities, they're honestly not as catchy (to me) as the straight up simple attack bonus.

Typically you're not going to have trouble turning things into Swiss cheese as an archer. Making your saves? That's a lot harder, and getting free rerolls to them is the goldest gold in the game. Being able to get rid of exhausted, frightened, nauseated, or staggered at 8th is up there too.

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I'm picturing a dwarf in a boulder-helmet with a length of chain attached to his belt, with a two-handed hammer-throw grip at the end of the chain.

-- He is the wrecking-ball.

(Barbarian ally purchased separately.)

Cevah wrote:
So if you get 7 AoOs per turn, you can get an eight from the enchant if the weapon hit on an AoO. If you have the enchant on two weapons, you could get a ninth also.

As noted in my last post immediately above yours, that is a presumption that has not yet been clarified despite multiple messagebase rules-queries and faq-request attempts (where pretty much every pro/con argument has been made ad nauseum) in recent years. Your GM mileage will vary, and most would consider that getting a whole extra attack is already stretching the bounds of brokenness in what a +1 weapon enhancement can reasonably be expected to provide.

If you're in PFS, I recommend having Combat Reflexes, and having any earned Fortuitous freebies tick off a remaining AoO available for that round.

Chess Pwn wrote:
This challenge remains in effect until the target hits the luring cavalier with a melee attack.... If this challenge ends because the target hits the luring cavalier with a melee attack, this challenge changes to the effects of the normal cavalier challenge[/b]

Alright, I did miss that part. It does have a limitation, though: If you desire to challenge your opponent in melee, you're granting him an easy shot, AND you need him to actually HIT you first before any of your Challenge bonuses kick in.

Sometimes you just don't have your bow with you, or it's impractical at that moment (like, you're being grappled, or vision reduced to 5', or enemy has serious piercing DR, etc).

It should be noted that the Daikyu of Commanding Presence is underpriced for what it does. (IMO) That is a very good bow, ever if you never use the banner feature at all.

Order of the Land is certainly not bad, but is shares the limitation of nearly all of the cavalier orders in that its morale bonus doesn't stack with other morale buffs (such as Bless in the low-level game, then later on Heroism, Good Hope, the Flagbearer bard thing, and so on.

Samurai with Order of the Warrior, otoh, is...holy cow. They get Resolve at 1st level:


Starting at 1st level, the samurai gains resolve that he can call upon to endure even the most devastating wounds and afflictions. He can use this ability once per day at 1st level, plus one additional time per day for every two samurai levels beyond 1st. Whenever the samurai defeats the target of his challenge, he regains one daily use of his resolve, up to his maximum number of uses per day.

Determined: As a standard action, the samurai can spend one use of his resolve to remove the fatigued, shaken, or sickened condition. If the samurai is at least 8th level, he can alternatively remove the exhausted, frightened, nauseated, or staggered condition. If the condition has a duration longer than 1 hour or is permanent, this ability removes the condition for 1 hour, at which time the condition returns.

Remove fatigue? The class is literally begging you to multiclass a level or two of barbarian or bloodrager.
Resolute: Whenever the samurai is required to make a Fortitude or Will save, he can spend one use of his resolve as an immediate action to roll twice and take the better result. He must decide to use this ability before he rolls the saving throw.[i]
Built-in Improved Great Fortitude and Improved Iron Will without taking the [i]four feats you'd otherwise need to get them!
Unstoppable: When the samurai is reduced to fewer than 0 hit points but not slain, he can spend one use of his resolve as an immediate action to instantly stabilize and remain conscious. He is staggered, but he does not fall unconscious and begin dying if he takes a standard action. He does fall unconscious if he takes additional damage from any source.

Not only do you not die, but you don't fall down prone! ....Spring-sheath out a potion + Accelerated Drinker and you're good to go.

Let's move on to Order of the Warrior:


Edicts: The samurai must protect the life and lands of his lord with his life. He must be truthful and courageous, respectful to his elders and his masters, and loyal to his friends and liege. He must conduct himself with honor and dignity.

Challenge: Whenever an order of the warrior samurai declares a challenge, he receives damage reduction 1/— against attacks made by the target of his challenge. This DR increases by +1 for every four levels the samurai possesses.

Skills: An order of the warrior samurai adds Knowledge (history) (Int) and Knowledge (nobility) (Int) to his list of class skills. An order of the warrior samurai can make Knowledge (nobility) checks untrained. If he has ranks in the skill, he receives a bonus on the check equal to 1/2 his samurai level (minimum +1) as long as the check involves the nobles or politics of his land.

Nothing particularly awesome here, although the DR is handy in nickle n' dime attriction encounters.
Honor in All Things (Ex): At 2nd level, the order of the warrior samurai draws strength from his sense of honor. Whenever the samurai makes a skill check or saving throw, he can call upon his honor as a free action to grant him a +4 morale bonus on the roll. He can use this ability once per day at 2nd level, plus one additional time per day for every four levels beyond 2nd (maximum of five times per day at 18th level).

Now, that sucker STACKS with Resolute.

It is really, really hard to blow a saving throw as a samurai once you're up to mid-levels and have multiples per day. Choose dwarf as your race, and it's just silly. You make paladins look lame because they actually fail 5% of the time.

Way of the Samurai (Ex): At 8th level, the order of the warrior samurai’s sense of honor and loyalty drives him to accomplish seemingly impossible tasks. The samurai can, as a standard action, focus his mind and will. Once during the next minute, he can choose to roll an attack roll, skill check, or saving throw three times and take the best result. He must decide to use this ability before the roll is made. Using this ability expends one daily use of his resolve.
That's your boss-fight surprise-round buff action.
Strike True (Ex): At 15th level, the order of the warrior samurai can use his years of training and focus to make the perfect strike. When he uses this ability, the samurai makes an attack as normal. If the attack hits, it is a critical threat. The samurai must roll to confirm the critical as normal. The attack deals the maximum amount of damage, although additional dice from weapon qualities, sneak attack, and additional dice from a critical hit are rolled normally. The damage from this attack ignores any damage reduction the target might have and also causes the target to become blinded, deafened, sickened, or staggered for 1d4 rounds (the samurai’s choice). Making this attack is a standard action. The samurai can use this ability once per day.

And that's how you screw the boss in one shot that is probably 99+% chance to hit factoring three rolls, with a Blinded rider.

Give him the Daikyu, and he's hell on wheels anywhere in town or country.

Oh yes! You also get a mount! Let's not forget about that: To build your samurai for maximum destruction, you'll want to multiclass at least one level of barbarian (savage technologist) and one or two levels of monk (sohei) to get Mounted Skirmisher as a bonus feat without prerequisites (this gives you pseudo-Pounce at low level while TWF'ing a pair of wakizashies). And because lord knows, another +2/+3 to all saves basically lets you flip-off casters (pick up a Ring of Evasion around 9th/10th to eliminate the remaining magic threats).

In PFS, can a dwarf cavalier or paladin take a pony as a mount?

(I'm pretty sure they can't, but I'd love to be wrong.)

Maybe 1% of faq requests get resolved. And I'm probably dreamin' that it's that high.

Let's just note that there's several existing threads specifically about the issue of Fortuitous and Combat Reflexes, nobody "official" has responded, and move on.

As far as I am concerned, the Luring cavalier archetype is a terrible trap designed to get you killed. You pick on something that you assume is too far away to engage you, discover to your horror that you're wrong, they're up in your face with a pounce or just insane move, and then tear you to pieces with the +4 bonus that you gave them.

That problem aside, Luring makes you a one-trick-pony cavalier: your Challenge damage will only apply to ranged targets, and you therefore have no flexibility for melee. If you're a samurai proficient in high-threat range exotic weapons, you want Challenge damage in melee to be doubled on crits. (A dex-optimized I-TWF samurai with Improved Critical Wakizashi is straight up terrifying in melee.)

-- Just get your samurai the Daikyu. It's 26kgp, so it'll be around 7th or 8th. Prior to then you won't have a significant number of levels to roll into Challenge damage anyway, so it's not that big of a deal missing out while you wait for your fancy bow.

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When she throws Voidsedge, it returns to her hand instantly upon striking a target, allowing her to make iterative thrown attacks.

What if she misses? (The weapon doesn't actually have the Returning property.)

I assume she doesn't lose it....

To be on the safe side, assume that you need Combat Reflexes (or the like) to build up an available pool of AoOs per round for Fortuitous to tap into.

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