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Nine-Headed Cryohydra

Skaorn's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 538 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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I've used it to modify either the dice roll or number of Hero/Action Points a PC gets. For instance you might get 3 + 1/2 level +/- Cha or add + Xd6 +/- Cha to a d20 roll.

I've been working on a complete skill system rewrite where I'm thinking of using combat like a skill (sorry for the shameless plugging: Skills ). Generally all skills work off your character level, but recently I've been looking at applying a similar system to BAB. I'v decided to keep the base progression, because I want to try to balance magic/combat/skills and I don't want it to become "okay, why would you play a fighter again?

If you're going to use gods of ancient myth, pleasepleaseplease don't use Greek or Norse pantheons, especially Norse. Both are over done and the Norse, being largely Scandinavian in decent and growing up with the myths, I find that they are often more comic book than edda.

At least go for Egyptian, Celtic, or Mesoamarican. If you want to be a bit more original, use something like the Slavic or Persian gods. Shinto kami and Hindi gods I'd be a little iffy about as they are modern day religions.

Umbral Reaver wrote:
I do like the idea of dualistic deities. Perhaps, go beyond the good/evil duality and choose a duality for each based on their particular aspects.

That's what I was thinking and why I was using light and dark rather than good or evil. A fairly neutral god of death might still hold sway over the undead and/or causes disasters, accidents, and disease. I figure that a system like that would allow for cults that are tolerated by gods even though they might be against their alignment.

For example, using your two, you could have a Cult dedicated to righteous vengence and doing bad things for good reasons. The other one might be like the early anti-industrials that smashed automated looms or printing presses with sledgehammers.

You might consider a different form of influence for the coins influence. For instance using points for each time the character gets help from the coin. Set different values, probably starting out high and lowering with each new step achieved to represent the spiral downwards becoming faster. You also might want to consider giving the character the Breadth of Knowledge feat from the APG. Also I believe Identify doesn't exist anymore as it is a function of Spellcraft or Kn: Arcana.

I would suggest different Alignments based on the Fallen. Lashiel would be an example of NE, Nichodemus and Deidra of LE, and Tessa and Rossana of CE.

You might also wish to consider making Denarians like Ursiel and Magog more like Vampire Spawn as their hosts are chosen because they are weak and can be enslaved. Admittedly more powerful than Vampire Spawn, but I think their is more commonality than with someone with 5+ class levels.

To answer answer OldManAlexi's question, the Knights of the Cross's mission is to redeem those who have been taken by the Fallen. They aren't there to kill them and have done with it.

aech wrote:

I actually really like this idea. It made me think of .//hack and their many worlds based off of one hub thing.

it would also allow cohesion as long as there's some kind of reasoning behind it as well as allowing much more variety and freedom with the stories and locales

Actually, now that I think about it, .//hack was probably a big subconcious influence, followed by Planescape, and Everway.

As for Dieties, something that might be good would be making gods with two light or dark qualities and one that would be in the opposite. It might be interesting if every god had their good side and bad (not necessarily good or evil).

Okay, I'll put up a couple of ideas to start the pot. These are countries I've thought up, but never really used or named.

The first was based on the idea on the idea of having a Dracula-like villian running a country but I thought vampires were over done. The kingdom was relatively unimportant due to the fact that a terrible dragon claimed much of the nation as its territory and would occassionally ravage it when it awoke. A prophecy was made that a great ruler would arise after questing to destroy the dragon and return with its blood. A young heir recently inherited the crown and sought to prove his/her worth to the people by slaying the dragon. Everyone believed the new ruler would never return but they were wrong. The ruler returned dragging the severed head of the beast behind. Since then the ruler as catapulted his/her country into a major power. The ruler is deviously cunning, charimatic, unstoppable in battle, and the people love him/her despite the draconian methods their ruler uses.

The ruler is the dragon, of course, taking the place of the ruler for equal parts entertainment and for increasing the value of its territory. The ruler might be dead or might be imprisoned so the dragon can use some form of magic to make its disguise harder to pierce. The dragon's head, its skull mounting the castle's main gate, was that of a suitor the dragon rejected as a mate or went preying mantis on it afterwards. While the dragon is evil, it does look out for the best interests of its loyal subjects, as they pay more tribute out of love than through fear. Also, they belong to it.

The second country was shaped by a tragic love story. The kingdom had a Paladin who embodied all the best virtues of his order. While he was righteous he was also humble and merciful. In his light one could see that the crown he served did not deserve such a servant, yet he was ever faithful. The ruler was nervous about having such a paragon around, as the ruler was a cruel and selfish person. Yet the ruler could not strike out against the Paladin directly so he sent the Paladin to deal with a cult worshipping a dark deity off in the wilds. The Paladin set out with his companions and over the course of several years for several battles with the Priestess and her cult. In the end though the Paladin and the Priestess fell in love and she denounced her faith to be with him.

They lived a happy life for many years. The Paladin continued to serve the court and the Priestess took to the study of the Arcane. Back at court, the Paladin became aware of some shady dealings going on and was piecing the trail that was slowly leading him to the crown. The ruler became fearful that, if the paladin learned the truth, he would turn against the ruler. So the ruler sent assassins to kill the Paladin and the Priestess. The couple was caught by surprise and the Paladin sacrificed himself to save his wife and unborn child. The ruler thought the assassins had been successful and held a state funeral to "honor" the fallen hero. The Priestess crashed this party, killing many guards in the process, and pronounce a curse that caused the rivers and lakes to overflow and turn to blood before she vanished. Now the kingdom has become a bloody swamp where terrible mutated creatures and undead roam.

Hope you enjoy them, and get some use out of them.

Rather than looking at what to add, it might be a good idea of what would be the big hurdles to overcome in the design of such a setting. Ones I can see are:

1) Ensuring that the setting remains open to all. This doesn't just mean pirating ideas and then copyrighting them but also making sure that everyone can contribute. This ties into the second problem.

2) Perception of various aspects of the setting for various players and GMs. Some big examples are races, gods, and technology; which can be some serious sticking points. Examples:
A)Races: Contributer B likes Halflings and wants to do something with them. Contributer A, who hates them, already painted them as being useless comic relief and monster bate.

B)Religion: This is a personal one for me, it always seems like there is a good god of war and an evil good of war. I write a god of warfare that is a more neutral god of mercenaries and adventurers as being the only war god. Others who want the Athena/Ares dynamic might not like that I've cut out their options "officially".

C)Technology in one word: Guns.

3) If Evil L. wants this to be a setting that anyone could publish from, it might be worth it to make it open enough for publishers to peddle their own works in certain locations. It might attract more publishers to use the setting.

4)Limiting the overall effect a contributer can have on the world. For instance, if I make a country/city state/demi plane, I shouldn't be able to declare it the bestest at everything. I should be able to express my ideas without having to worry that my ideas will be twisted into something unrecognizable but I shouldn't be able to run wild either.

That's what I had for potential issues at the moment at least. My mind has wandered off though so I might come up with more potential problems later.

What you might want to think about is doing a many worlds kind of game. Think of it in terms of a sci-fi space opera where just about anything can fit in though rather than spaceships (a touchy subjects here) you have gates to other worlds/planes that appear naturally and are stble paths.

This type of setting would allow for people to use whatever they want from any publisher by creating another world. Even if someone writes in a Mary Sue character somewhere, they are still tiny in comparison to the scope. You could even throw a cataclysm that wreaks havoc on the world and not threaten the entire setting.

The hard part would be cohesion, which would be a big strike against this style. It's possible to add elements to bind everything together though. For instance one pantheon of gods for the entire place, with the ability to alter them a bit based on cultural variance. A central starting place might be good, like a City of Adventurers that is run by Adventurers who have mostly settled down. But that's just my ideas.

Azazyll wrote:
I highly suggest you check out the old TSR game Alternity, which 3rd edition looted for mechanics (particularly the skill system). The entire rules set is based around skill ranks, which have tiered effects like you're proposing. You might come across some good ideas. Also, it's the best RPG ever made.

Awesome, I'll have to find the PDFs!

Irontruth wrote:
If you can't come up with a specialty for Swim, I would suggest just making it part of Athletics or Endurance.

I might have done that if I couldn't figure something out, though then I'd need to find something to take #16 for skills to make everything rounded. I'm going with Free Diving for a specialization. Also I was planning on throwing Fly in as a specialization for Ride, if a character has a fly speed so doing something for those with a swim speed might be good too. Thanks for the suggestion though, if I hadn't found out that the Free Diving record (no equipment at all) was something like 280ft a couple of days ago, I'd probably be taking your suggestion.

Back to Bluff: one thing I should mention, while social skills like bluff will allow you to effect multiple people, the DC will increase by 5 per increase above one target.

Being lazy and leaving out flavor text, but this is the start of Bluff.

Bluff (Cha):
Tier 1:
Bonus: May attempt to Feint in Combat.

Tier 2:
Bonus: you can attempt to bluff a small group (a party of adventurers).

Tier 3:
Bonus: Feinting doesn’t draw an attack of opportunity.

Tier 4:
Bonus: You can attempt to bluff a moderate group (a tavern room).

Tier 5:
Bonus: Opponents you Feint loose their Dexterity modifier for the round.

Tier 6:
Bonus: You can attempt to bluff a large group (a crowded market place).

Tier 7:
Bonus: Instead of loosing their Dexterity Modifier for the round, you may choose to apply the following conditions to an opponent on a successful feint for one round: Confused, Dazed, Sickened, or Staggered

Tier 8:
Bonus: You can attempt to bluff a huge group (an army).

watermelontail wrote:
So how about something for distraction or misdirection involving either Stealth or Larceny; I hate to acculturate it, but something like how ninjutsu is supposed to work? I'm not coming up with anything more concrete yet, but there has got to be some angle we can work into this.

I think I'm going to go with hiding people and things as a specialty. Essentially giving bonus abilities that help you set up ambushes, smuggle, and make sure that you will always have a knife on you.

@Kirth: Thanks for the story, though I think the main reason I like them was because they are a weak monster individually but could be more devastating than a natural disaster or more powerful monsters.

I developed other forms of gibberlings in one game as well as using the basic and brood Gibberlings and using the Far Realms backstory.

Brutes: basically stronger and armored versions. The basic concept was that opponents would be faced with a swarm of fur, flesh, noise, and steel, and then the brutes pop out like sharks in that wave.

Heralds: Looked like normal gibberlings until they start eating and then a mouth opens up on their sternum that they stuff with food so they can still speak. They cause they and the gibberlings around them to 30ft would start actually talking so that their gibbering actually resembled something more like a buzz of conversation at a extremely crowded insane asylum and gave them Inspire Courage.

Scouts: Gibberlings with fast movement and scent. Basically like ant scouts, not Ranger scouting.

Shriekers: Gibberlings that could produce screams that acted like the Shatter spell. This let them get passed fortifications.

Diggers: Medium sized and with four arms, the top two being larger and clawed while the bottom two carried shortswords. They could vomit acid as either a weapon or as a means to dig through stone, similar to stone shape.

King Gibberlings: think king rats, only for gibberlings. They were immune to criticals, bleeding, etc and large sized.

I've always loved Gibberlings for whatever reason. In one of the late 2nd ed monster books they had a gibberling tried to explain their origins as from the Far Realms. They were larger and infested with worms that burrowed through there skin. Those that got infested with those worms were slowly turned into gibberlings.

Another quick update for skill specialties:

Pakour (Acrobatics): Moving through difficult terrain.
Soldiering (Athletics): Dealing with armor restrictions.
Disguise (Bluff): Impersonating a person or creating a different persona.
Inspiration (Diplomacy): I'll give you a hint, Bard's would get this.
Profession (Empathy): Making money the old fashioned way.
Craft (Engineering): Building better mousetraps.
Medicine (Healing): Directly treating ability damage, poisons, and diseases.
Incite (Intimidate): Subtly changing NPCs reactions towards others.
???? (Larceny): Still drawing a blank here.
Strategy (Lore): Spotting and exploiting weaknesses in monsters.
Danger Sense (Perception): Spotting magical traps, noticing traps and secret doors when not actively looking, etc.
Pilot (Ride): What it says on the tin.
Use Magic Device (Spellcraft): As the skill as it exists in 3.X and PF.
???? (Stealth): Again, drawing a blank. I've been thinking camoflage to hide items and other people, but I'm not sure.
Wild Empathy (Survival): Again, pretty self-explanitory.
???? (Swim): Don't know, Pearl diving comes to mind but I'm worried about overlap with Endurance.

Special skills still have Might, Endurance, Deduction, and Determination (rename of Purpose). Charisma will be replaced with Influence to represent a character's standing in their society, whether as a home town hero or as a noble. Dexterity I'm still lacking. One suggestion was a form of defense and there is also intitiative too.

Social Skills: This is kind of a hard one to puzzle out due to the fluid nature of social interactions. I have been working with the idea of going off of two tracks to determine the difficulty. The first would be based on an NPC's reaction and preparedness towards the PC and the level of affect you're going for. In general it is easier to affect those who are friendly to you rather than unfriendly. That being said, it might be easier to lie to an unfriendly person than it would be a close friend. It depends on the situation and the GM will need to make the call. As for effect, generally the better the PC wants to do will determine how difficult the task is. So talking a discount out of a merchant will be easier than causing a Troll to cower in terror.

Any thoughts?

watermelontail wrote:

I really like both drafts you have out, particularly the parkour - based one. I think this might be the direction that Kosta and I need to be looking for Eetreia's world. I fear that grafting it into an already very crunchy system like Pathfinder might overload the system, but, on the other hand, there's Spycraft and Fantasycraft that make Pathfinder look rules-light, or that thing Monte Cook did with tokens, so it's probably just me being lazy.

That said, I would kind of like to see a system built around this at its core - I'm pretty sure this is *exactly* what Kosta had in mind.

Well, in a way I want to cut down on some of the crunch by cutting back on some of the feat and class feature bloat. While I haven't had much time to work on this, I realize that it would be a pretty big rewrite since every class would be affected in some way. Still, the more I think about it the more things have been falling into place. I would welcome any suggestions.

Another rough draft accomplished.

Athletics (Str): this skill deals with climbing, jumping, running, and other physical labors.
(All examples below assume that the character moves half their movement speed as a standard action unless stated otherwise)

Tier 1: Climbing a knotted rope, standing jumping 5ft across or 1ft high, or double that for a running jump (1 Move Action worth of forward movement).
Bonus: Fast Movement 5ft: your base movement is increased by the listed amount when wearing Light or no armor and carrying a light load.

Tier 2: Easy rock climbing, standing jumping 10ft across or 2ft high, or double that for a running jump.
Bonus: Fast Movement 10ft

Tier 3: Moderate rock climbing, standing jumping 15ft across or 3ft high, or double that for a running jump.

Bonus: Fast Movement 15ft

Tier 4: Advanced rock climbing or a castle wall, standing jumping 20ft across or 4ft high, or double that for a running jump.

Bonus: Fast Movement 20ft

Tier 5: Climbing a greased pole, standing jumping 25ft across or 5ft high, or double that for a running jump.

Bonus: Fast Movement 25ft, Run: as the Feat.

Tier 6: Climbing a wall of large riveted metal plates, standing jumping 30ft across or 6ft high, or double that for a running jump.
Bonus: Fast Movement 30ft, Practiced Climber: You don’t loose your Dex bonus when climbing.

Tier 7: Climbing up a smooth surface, standing jumping 35ft across or 8ft high, or double that for a running jump.
Bonus: Fast Movement 35ft, Leap of the Clouds: you may jump as if you had a running start if you didn’t and may jump up to your run speed if you did.

Tier 8: Climbing up sand falling through a hole in the roof, standing jumping 40ft across or 10ft high, or double that for a running jump.
Bonus: Fast Movement 40ft, Paragon: You can gain half your Fast Movement bonus when wearing Medium Armor or carrying a medium load.

Specialization: Soldiering- There is no physical exercises that will prepare a person for the exertion of a pitched battle than combat itself. Those who tread the path of war constantly train to so that their weapons will seem light in their hand and that their armor feels like a second skin. They do this with the hopes that they will outlast their enemies when faced with the rigors of war.

Tier 2: Armor Tolerance 2: Reduces Armor Check penalties by the character’s Athletics Tier. Also the Arcane Spell Failure is reduced by ½ the Athletic Tier x5% and the Max Dex is increased by ½ the Athletic Tier. Armor Check penalties and Arcane Spell Failure cannot be reduced below 0.

Tier 3: Armor Tolerance 3, Sentinel: you may sleep in Light or Medium Armor without penalty.

Tier 4: Armor Tolerance 4

Tier 5: Armor Tolerance 5, Armored Mobility: Your Base Speed is not reduced by Medium or Heavy Armor.

Tier 6: Armor Tolerance 6

Tier 7: Armor Tolerance 7, Guardian: you may sleep in Heavy Armor without penalty.

Tier 8: Armor Tolerance 8, Juggernaught: your Running speed is not reduced by Heavy Armor.

Well this has been going slower than I'd like do to life, but I've at least got a teaser for specializations. I present the Acrobatic's specialization:

Parkour- Some call this Freerunning but, in reality, Freerunning is a more expressive and artistic form of Parkour. Parkour is a training method to bypass obsticals as quickly and efficiently as possible in natural and urban environments. Using this training, a Traceur (a practitioner of Parkour) may move quickly through areas with a surety and agility that few can match.

Tier 2: Agile Climber: you can use Acrobatics to make Climb checks, rather than Athletics, gaining all the benefits of your Acrobatics Tiers towards Climbing.

Tier 3: Nimble Moves 10ft: you ignore the listed amount of difficult terrain.

Tier 4: Roof Runners: you can use Acrobatics to make Jump checks, rather than Athletics, gaining all the benefits of your Acrobatics Tiers towards Jumping.

Tier 5: Nimble Moves 20ft.

Tier 6: Acrobatic Charge: you can make a number of turns during a charge equal to half your Acrobatic Skill Tiers.

Tier 7: Nimble Moves 30ft.

Tier 8: “There Are No Limits”*: You do not suffer Difficult Terrain penalties when taking a Double Move, Running, or Charging.

*Bruce Lee, a motto adopted by the founder of Pakour.

Concepts more than classes are tiresome to me. Here are the lists of ones that annoy me out of my groups that keep getting played:

The Rising Darklord: he's not fighting evil, he's eliminating the competition.

Mr. Fixit: Why do you have to take half you skill points in craft skills if all you do is complain about the crafting rules, again?

The Mary Sue: I don't mean characters that are like what he wants to be but more like the lead in some vampire boyfriend story.

That character again!?!: We all have characters we like that we occassionally pop out again to because we had fun the last time and we're short on ideas. When you try to use it everytime, it's a problem.

Ok, I have a bit of an update to show some of my progress:

Basics: Skill checks equal your level + stat mod + other modifiers (hopefully cut back). DC Equal the Tier that best aproximates what you want to do x5. You can raise the DC by increments of 5 to increase your effectiveness. If the Tier of the DC is less than or equal to your skill Tier, then you don't have to roll unless on a contested roll. On contested rolls, if a character has more Tiers than their opponent than that character gains +2 to their result for each Tier above.

Skill Rank, Tiers, and Class Skills: Your skill rank is the sum of your level + stat mod + other modifiers which you roll for skill checks and use to determine your skill's Tier. You start at Tier 1 and gain a new Tier when your Skill Rank equals 6,11,16, etc. Class Skills automatically bump up your skill Tier by 1 and other Feats may provide increase over that.

Class will get a number of class skill equal to their base skill points (before Int mod is applied) x2. Half of these skills will be fixed and the other half will be up to the player's choice, except for any 8 Skill Point class which get all basic skills as Class Skills. Humans will get an extra class skill or a free specialty if they have all skills as class skills.

My skill list is as follows, with some ideas for specializations. If you are interested I'd love help fleshing things out. Specializations will just be expantions on what you can do with that skill. Specializations can be taken with Feats:
Bluff (Disguise)
Empathy (Profession)
Engineering (Craft)
Healing (Medicine)
Intimidate (Presence)
Lore (Strategy)
Perception (Danger Sense)
Ride (Pilot)
Spellcraft (Use Magic Device)
Survival (Wild Empathy)

Special Skills: These will be skills that can be taken with a feat. This can be used to cover a variety of effects from psychic powers, Bending Styles from Avatar the Last Airbender, Alchemy of Full Metal Alchemist, or whatever you want to come up with. For simplicity's sake I'm working on a special skill based off of each stat. What I've got so far is:
Might (Feats of Strength)
Endurance (Resisting the frailties of the body)
Speed, Grace (?)
Deduction (asking questions from the GM)
Purpose (Will to live) Saving vs Death, temporarily ignoring status effects, etc.
Destiny (Adding to rolls when you use a Hero Point)

Cheapy wrote:
Guys, guys, the edition wars are that way, 5 years past.


In all seriousness, if enough people are looking for a certain class, why not make it? I'm all in favor of alternate classes myself. Sure somethings might not fit in one type of campaign, but if some one's holding a gun to your head to make you use something then you have bigger problems.

@Finn and Liam: You're missing the point. There are lots of little things that you could do to simulate a more realistic game. Aggrigate injuries would be one of them. Spanky went on to list several more. Apparently in the game Burning Wheel you can spend months trying to heal a sword wound and still die from infection with some of the rules. DnD is not realistic and trying to put such levels of realism as aggrigate wounds or strength variance by gender would just bog everything down and wouldn't be fun.

I'll give a very similar example, overall build should affect strength. I'm "stronger" than many people who weigh 50lbs or less than me. I have more mass to throw around than they do, so shouldn't that be calculated. Height and Weight could become very important stats then with,say, a +1 to strength per 50lbs or so.

I'm a straight male and I've played straight women, gay men, and gay women. Not that it really comes up except as an after thought in most games I've played in past adolesense and the "are there any girls there?" stage.

I have a female friend who plays male characters. A few other male friends who play female characters most of the time. The only time I've ever really had an awkward situation was when my character and my brothers character accidently got married, but that was because it was my brother. Fortunately the were both NE narcassist and had a fun and mutually abussive relationship.

I'd say I'd curb my wackiness a bit, but my half-elf bard was the mastermind behind the chamber pot attack againts an evil cleric. It involved a silver chamber pot, a true strike, and a Paladin with a use of Smite left. So no, no real change.

cranewings wrote:
You need adventurers for the same reasons adventurers can endure the damage you guys are talking about. The gods are messing with mortals. Any adventurer who takes an arrow to the knee just has a cleric pray for the minor miracle of instant recovery.

Oh, I'm not talking about just one injury, I'm talking about repeated injuries. Getting stabbed with swords, bitten, poisoned, falling from 40ft, and even dying seems like it would add up quickly, considering magic healing really only works faster than normal healing, not differently. One could easily say that those injuries would add up like they do in a normal person that receive good, modern medical help. So what's to say that after taking an arrow to the knee that adventurer might find that knee to stiff to run from hungry trolls now? It would be lame is my answer.

Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:

My response to "realism re: sexes" is this.

[Good Points]

It also doesn't take into account all the punishment a body would take as an adventurer and its aggrigate effect. Adventurers would be up there with race care drivers, at least, for the punishment that they inflict on their bodies. Most adventures who survive would probably retire from that life by the equivilent of their 30s. Im sure you've all heard something along the lines of "40ft's only 4d6 damage, I can take that..." at some point.

The reason why your adventuring carreer isn't ended by an arrow in the knee is because it would be lame.

Another thing to think about is that, when your talking militaries in general, the individual's strength and weakness don't really matter as you are generally concerned with the strengths and weakness of the unit and their experience.

If you want to have an elite unit of female soldiers, you could easily come up with any weapon option you wanted. They're elite troops after all, does it really matter if they're wielding longbows or mauls? Chances are, you are talking about experienced warriors (5th or 6th level) at the worst. In a society that's gender neutral or matriarchal, you'll still probably end up with mixed units, unless that culture is really paranoid about pregnancy, and will probably favor spears, hand weapons and shields, massed ranged, or cavalry. If your looking for Amazons as a culture in a game then you're back at elite at least.

Arguements that women should be portrayed differently than men due to things like having less upper body strength never works out well , especially in DnD. With these kinds of arguements shouldn't humans be stronger than elves? What about their height and reach advantage over dwarves? Then you get into to Weapon Familiarity too. Shouldn't female gnomes favor differn't weapons then male ones?

cranewings wrote:
Aventhar wrote:
Didn't she just destroy a roman town full of retires and then loose 100,000 men to a legion one third her size without delivering any casualties?

History is written by the winner.

Oh you were looking for historical examples... I got ninja'd and went to lunch. In that case spears should be up there with archery. There was a North African tribe who's women were evil shots with rifles and feared for their machettes. There is a town in Russia, I believe, that takes in victims of human trafficing (particularly women), and have some nasty fighting styles they teach, espcially with knives. In a gender equal world, I think that women would also favor sword and shield like men did.

I would point out that while a village of female barbarians might not have 100 women with 20 strength, but they are still a village of barbarians and not warriors. Why wouldn't they have high strengths and great weapons? In myth Amazons were generally feared by normal people, they just tended to fall when a Hero showed up.

What does realism have to do with DnD?

I have a friend who is about 6'2", 250lbs, and has spent years studying many forms of martial arts and wrestling. I once saw him spare against a girl who was about 5'2" and 100lbs. As he's says "She was very nice and didn't break both my arms". She was on the US Olympics Judo team.

If you train enough for something, you can usually do it, no matter what sex you are.

Atarlost wrote:
I'd avoid altering the actual skill list since that makes using existing classes more work. Also, locking UMD behind a feat will hurt rogues, who *really* don't need the nerf. It's also an iconic skill of the bard, who isn't exactly made of feats either.

Well what I'm doing would require changing classes, mostly the Skill based classes. I don't think Fighters, Clerics, and Wizards are going to change very much at all. What I'm hoping for is a skill system that doesn't nerf skill heavy classes but boosts skills up to the level of Feats and Magic.

I've already shown that I'd be removing Slow Fall from Monk abilities to make room for something else and placing it into Acrobatics. Bards will change at the very least by removing performance as a skill. Why bother having a skill that almost never gets taken by other classes? Rogues I intend to be to skills what fighters are to feats. A lot of Rogue abilities work along the lines of altering a skill. Fast Stealth and Ledge Walker will be automatically be part of the skill system. What will fill the slots of those missing abilities? Skill Feats.

I've always been bugged by special abilities and feats that modify specific parts of a skill. Why does a Ranger get Camoflage and not a Rogue? Why do you need to be a Rogue to search for and disarm magical traps? I believe these should be aspects of the skills themselves.

While I did like them when I first saw them (I'm pretty sure they were 2nd Ed) I wouldn't let them in a game as a PC playable race. There is just too much potential for disruption in my oppinion; either in the form of abuse, determining rules calls, and accidental death since focusing on one twin will mess with the other.

For example: What happens if one twin is dropped into a different plane? Since most effects can't cross planar boundries this brings up some interesting questions. Is their connection severed due to being on seperate planes? Do they both start dying then? If they don't and one of them gets slowed, is the other too? What about if one gets hit by poison that drops the one's Dex? Since their bodies are seperate only one should be affected and should be going on different initiative orders then. The idea is great, the playability would be too difficult for my tastes.

I'd honestly convert them so that they were indepedent (including the possibility of being different genders) from each other but still strongly linked. This way you could let players willing to work as a team make two seperate characters or have a useful and trustworthy NPC to occasionally back up the PCs. The only other option I could see would be to play a Gestalt game and let a Dvati be two seperate characters rather than one character with a composite class.

Canning Linguistics and putting it into Lore. Languages will have to change a bit. My first instinct would be to go 2 base starting + Int Mod + 1/per Tier.

Some thoughts on classes and feats:

1) Multi-classing would need a look. I want to avoid people doing the 3.0 trick of taking on level of Ranger to get TWF and Ambidexterity, only this time doing it with Rogue to get a pile of class skills. Since I'm figuring each class will start with a few set skills and a few the player choses I'm thinking about limiting additional class skills gained through multi-classing to 1 to 4 based on the classes base skill points befor Int was brough into the equation. So going into Wizard after 1st level would get you one new class skill while a bard woulg get three from their list.

2) Feats: All the feats that grant +2 to two related skills will remain the same (trying to get rid of a lot of modifiers).

Versatile: Select two non-class skills. These skills become class skills.

Skill Focus: Any class skill. Choose one class skill. This skill now functions at 2 Tiers higher, rather than just one.

Secret Training: Any class skill and GM approval. Select one skill that is a class skill and use a different modifier for calculating the character's skill bonus. For instance using Con instead of Strength for Athletics, Int for Bluff, Str for Intimadte, or Wis or Cha for Spellcraft if the character uses a different stat for spellcasting than Int. The GM must decide if the choice is appropriate. For instance a DM is well with in her rights to say "No" using Charisma for Swim.

Skill Mastery: Requires Skill Focus. Choose one skill that the Skill Focus Feat was applied to. This skill now functions at 3 Tiers higher, rather than just one.

3) I'm thinking of breaking skills up for specialties so you might be able to boost a specific area of a skill as a class ability; like a Ranger's Tracking or a Rogue's Trap Finding. Though it might just be a flat +2 bonus rather than bumping up the tier for that one area. Not sure yet and I think it might be getting a little far ahead of myself.

That's all for now.

Skills Tiers Example

It took me a while to hammer this out, but I'm hoping it will convey what I'm looking to do with the skills and providing a scale that will hopefully work for portraying progression from low level exceptional humans to demigod like abilitie of higher levels. As you can see, I've already combined Acrobatics and Escape Artist (as I said, it's a work in progress) and with just one skill, shows how it might change a class like Monk (guess we'll just have to give them something else instead of Slow Fall :D).

Acrobatics (Dex): this skill deals with balance, moving through difficult or threatened squares, taking a fall, standing from prone, and escaping bonds.
(All examples below assume that the character moves half their movement speed as a standard action unless stated otherwise)

Tier 1: Simple rolls, cart wheels, or moving across a 5ft wide stable ledge.
Bonus- Slow Fall 10ft.

Tier 2: Convert 1d6 of falling damage to non-lethal damage, tumbling through threatened squares, or walking across a stable ledge that is less than 5ft wide but 1ft wide or greater.
Bonus- Slow Fall 20ft.

Tier 3: Reducing lethal damage from falling by 1d6, standing without drawing an attack of opportunity, escaping improvised quality bonds, or walking across a 5’ wide but unsecured ledge.
Bonus- Slow Fall 30ft.

Tier 4: Reducing lethal damage from falling by 1d6 and converting 1d6 of remaining falling damage to non-lethal damage, escaping poor quality bonds, or walking across an unstable ledge that is less than 5ft wide but 1ft wide or greater.
Bonus: Slow Fall 40ft

Tier 5: Reducing lethal damage from falling by 2d6, escaping standard quality bonds, or tightrope walking.
Bonus: Slow Fall 50ft, Only suffer -2 penalties to attack and to AC versus Melee attacks while Prone.

Tier 6: Reducing lethal damage from falling by 2d6 and converting 1d6 of remaining falling damage to non-lethal damage, escaping good quality bonds, moving across terrain that can’t support a lot of weight without breaking through (glass, thin ice, etc).
Bonus: Slow Fall 60ft, Wall Running- use movement to move up a vertical surface, if you don’t end your turn on a horizontal surface then you fall and don’t gain the benefits of slow fall.

Tier 7: Reducing lethal damage from falling by 3d6, escaping masterworked quality bonds, moving across a surface that could not normally support your weight (paper, water, etc) but if you end your movement on such a surface you will fall through. You will also take any damage from crossing such terrain, if any, as normal.
Bonuses: Slow Fall 70ft, Don’t suffer penalties to attack and to AC versus Melee attacks while Prone.

Tier 8: Reducing lethal damage from falling by 2d6 and convert the remaining falling damage to non-lethal damage, escape a death trap, stand on a surface that shouldn’t support your weight or move across a surface that wouldn’t and causes damage without being harmed (lava, acid, Gelatinous Cubes, etc). You may stand upon such a surface but would take damage as normal.
Bonus: Slow Fall 80ft, Improved Slow Fall- you don’t need to be within range of a vertical surface to gain the benefits of ½ your Slow Fall.

A lot of the things posted I think could be handled by a alternate class. Artificers could be a rebuild of Summoner, Swashbuckler of Rogue, and you could probably do a totem warrior with the Barbarian (think Jaguar Warriors, not Berserkers). I'd personally like to see a more mystical version of the monk (6 level spellcaster).

While I don't like the idea of a shapeshifter class, it seems like a lot of people want it so I have no problem if Paizo does it.

Ok, here is the skill list so far:

Escape Artist

The following skills would be examples of specialty skills accessible by feats:
Craft: Used to build items.
Endurance: Use instead of Fort for dealing with non-lethal damage situations.
Might: Used to make strength checks for lifting or breaking things
Trade: Used to gain money and Appraise stuff.
Use Magic Device: what it says on the tin.
*Ritual Magic: Requires UMD, cast some spells with casting time of 10 Minutes x Spell Level at a cost of 100 GP x Spell Level.

Hey, DM burn out is nothing to be ashamed of. Let the players know you need a break. Maybe do a rap up session to end it. I've found that players are very understanding of burn out. Once your refreshed then give it another go.

Check out the Midnight setting from FFG. Channeler might be another way to go and its a spell point system.

Also this might be a way to incorperate Feat and Skill based abilities, such as Psionics or Ritual Magic.

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I was wondering if anyone was interested in a possible revamp of the skill system? The idea came about when going through the d20 game Legend. One thing I liked about the game was that their skill checks were laid out so that higher DCs got you more impressive effects. You could balance on tree leaves or treat your movement as flight for 1 to 3 rounds when jumping at higher DCs. While maybe a bit more fantastic than I want to aim, I think buffing the skill system would be good for classes that are deemed to be underpowered, like Monk and Rogue. Assuming that the system I have in mind is viable, it would require revamping classes, feats, some spells, etc.

Here is the basic idea: Skills Ranks are equal to your Character Level + Stat + Racial Modifiers + Feats. Each skill has a series of eight tiers that you gain access to the next level once you have a total bonus of 6, 11,16,21, etc. Every one gets the first skill tier for free. Having a Class Skill automatically bumps you up one tier from where your current modifiers place you. Skill Focus would bump you up another tier. Skill Mastery would bump you yet another tier, though this might be Rogue only.

What do the Tiers get you? They would allow you to just perform certain abilities at a DC equal to your Tier x 5 without rolling. You can just do those. In opposed checks you can either give your opponent a static DC, if your opposed skill is of a higher Tier or roll using your normal bonuses, which ever you prefer. This way a Rogue might be able to sneak past some guards with a higher Stealth Tier than their Perception Tier without a roll, while the GM might give the guard’s leader a roll against the Rogue’s static DC because the leader is the big opponent of this encounter. If the Leader and the Rogue have the same Tier in their opposed skill then it is a roll off. If the Leader has a higher Tier than she would have to roll versus the Leader’s static DC or, if the GM really wants to press the issue, keep it as a roll off. Note that you can always roll against the DC of a Tier that is higher than your current Tier.

Now, aside from covering basic difficulty level, this would allow for a DM to increase the difficulty or a PC to do a simpler task with a greater degree of success for more risk. Now a basic DC 5 task is something anyone can do. You’re heroes, you can climb a knotted rope without rolling for it. However there might be conditions that make the task more difficult, meaning the DM has the ability to increase the DC by a number of Tiers which would increase the DC. A more hazardous climb up that rope might be while taking fire from below, increasing the character’s stress and desperation to get up and the Tier by 1 along with it. Climbing the rope up a cliff side in a storm might raise it two Tiers. At the extreme end, climbing a rope during a storm on a pitching ship might increase it by three Tiers.

The PCs would also have the option of increasing the DC/Tier to try and achieve more. Some example would be:
• Performing a Skill as a 1) Move Action, 2) Swift Action, 3)Interrupt, rather than as a Standard action.
• Affecting a group of 1) Small Party (around 10 or less), 2) A crowded Tavern room, 3) Marc Anthony’s speech in Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar.
• Performing a skill to move 1) Base Movement, 2) Double Move, 3) Running, instead of as a half move.
In both cases I probably wouldn’t do more than 3 increases due to difficulty and due to the PCs risk. So if a PC has decided that any one can pee on the floor but a hero s@#$% on the ceiling, the highest they can get is +6 Tiers/+30 DC. GMs can also use circumstantial bonuses to lower the DC such as PC buying the bar a round to ease some diplomacy checks, might drop the DC down by a Tier too.

What would Tiers get you beyond basic rolling? Here is the part that I’m having trouble figuring out all the details. Certain abilities I think should be part of skill checks. For instance Slow Fall would be good for any acrobatic character. Each Tier of Acrobatics might provide a certain level past Tier 2 or so, with the chance to roll for more. Higher Tiers of skill might allow you to heal HP for characters by 1d6 per Tier with one treatment of the Heal skill. Gaining access to abilities like Tracking or searching for magic traps are some other option. Increased affects such as being able to apply the Charmed condition to people with Diplomacy or increase the level of fear you install for Intimidate. Basically I’d like each Tier to mean more than your just an additional amount better at a skill, but you can still attempt to do higher Tiered abilities.

That’s my sales pitch. Any takers?

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3.5 Loyalist wrote:
And you are really going to buy that? You really think you can trust people to be honest as to their level of fetishism and what they fetishise? Bring out Freud, bring out House, people hide their lusts, people lie. The way they lie about themselves does not make it truth. anyone that thinks it is not a fetish and does not lead to sexual potrayals of part human, part animals, should check the material. Look at it, look at what is drawn, look at the purpose. It is that simple.

Well you play D&D so that must mean that you are a fat white male between 30 - 40, who lives in his parents' basement, and doesn't know how to even deal with women. It is that simple.

Hey, steroetypes are fun! You'd think that, as a community, we wouldn't paint others with broad strokes since we all enjoy a hobby that is a constant target for such things already.


You can probably find others on this site, though most of them were ancient gods.

Mikaze wrote:
Quick, someone go to the Homebrew "Sick of Humans" thread and tell them they got their wish. There shall be no humans ever, any more. From now on it's Thrikreen or bust!


(/tg/ had a field day with that one)


not sure what /tg/ stands for, but I forgot that just the mere mention will create porn of it. Gaming is over folks, go home.

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
So we can only play as a race that someone didn't make a porn about...dang I hate half-orcs;)
Don't worry, half-orcs are banned too.

Quick, someone go to the Homebrew "Sick of Humans" thread and tell them they got their wish. There shall be no humans ever, any more. From now on it's Thrikreen or bust!

Odraude wrote:
On a side note, Ewoks are totally lame :)

Until they eat you :p

Blastoguy wrote:
You know what? Fine. I'll let her be a catfolk. Moment the f&$%~@ry starts though she's getting swarmed by Akatas.

It's your game and you do have a legit reason to say no, like you did to the player who wanted to play a Tiefling. Its your view of the situation that I have a hard time understanding. The whole catfolk is going to equal sex in your game? While I know next to nothing of furries I imagine that they are like any sub culture, which can range from simple interest to more extreme (this is the internet after all, if you think of it than there is porn of it), just like gamers. Do RPGs get into the rest of your life or other hobbies?

In the games I've played in the only time romance came into the foreground was in an Arthurian style game. We spent several game sessions trying to marry off various knights in our group. I will stress that this was romance, sex never came into the picture in the game.

I have no idea if your player is a furry or just someone who grew up on 80s cartoons. When Return of the Jedi came out when I was a kid, I loved Ewoks. My teddy bear was an Ewok. I still have a soft spot for them even though most people think they're lame. I also grew up watching Thundercats too. Back then, I would have jumped at the chance to play races like those. Now, not so much but I can understand why others might want to play them.

magnuskn wrote:
Well, my initial post was about the look chosen in the Bestiary 3 and how it makes the whole race look like it was made to very primarily sell to "kawaii-desu" girls. ;)

I took you intial post as only gay guy and girls would play the race. Personally the artwork isn't bad in my opinion, not the 2nd Ed art work by Tony Di'Terrizi (or however you spell hi last name), but not like what hobgoblins, bugbears, and trolls are for me in PF. I dislike the artwork on those three personally (excluding the troll on the Bestiary cover) but that's my personal taste and it won't stop me from using them.

To add to Squak's dire works, the classic cat meme:

Ceiling Cat .

Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:

"Growltiger was a Bravo Cat who travelled on a barge

In fact he was the roughest cat that ever roamed at large
From Gravesend up to Oxford he pursued his evil aims
Rejoicing in his title of The Terror of the Thames

His manners and appearance did not calculate to please
His coat was torn and seedy, he was baggy at the knees
One ear was somewhat missing, no need to tell you why
And he scowled upon a hostile world from one forbidding eye"

t s eliot

just's possible to make a catfolk into a dude's dude.

not that there's anything wrong with what anybody else wants to do.

Spanky, what are you doing trying to bring class into this arguement!?! This is all about GYAARRRR!!!

Of course you have also made me want to make a race based off of the Kilrathi so I can run a game where I can use the Cult of Sivar as villians.

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