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Cool, thanks for the clarification, and yes, we are using the errated version, thanks to you, actually, Fourshadow. You are the one that pointed out its existence to me...

So... Weird words.

I think to recall that it worked as a ray... And I found here that Arcane strike worked with rays:

Does that mean that arcane strike applies to weird words too?

Oh, good catch.

I was actually using both D20 and the book and I was confused by the wording.
The new explanation is much clearer and the ability has actually been modified a fair bit... And I do like the new version better!

So, thanks again for pointing that to me!

Thanks to everybody for their advices!

At the end, she went for the sound striker archetype.
She also moved a couple of abilities around and took a bunch of new feats from the archery path: Point blank shot; rapid shot and manyshot to go with arcane strike.
(She is only using a shortbow, unfortunately, Kitsune get a penalty to strength so raising the strength high enough to make a composite possible seemed like a use of abilitie points that could be better spend elsewhere...)

She also changed a few spell; adding Chord of shards and Sonic scream to her list...

We had a session on Monday night and she seemed rather satisfied, so thanks again!

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SheepishEidolon wrote:

Allow her to bring another, more warrior-like character for one session, so she can enjoy the melee feeling - probably that's already enough for her. If not, you both know it's more than just a temporary wish, so proceed with other options.

Actually, I was thinking about doing just that.

the barbarian was going to be absent for the next session, and I thought about introducing a quasi-NPC. A side character, a ranger, that she would have played to round up the party...

The session ended up being cancelled, so moot. Still, I am tempted to do just that.

On the other hand, she has played another character in another campaign, a half-orc, strength 18 and two handed greataxe... so, yeah, the damage output of her bard might seem a bit inadequate in comparison...

Still, I will suggest all these options...

SheepishEidolon wrote:

Give her a rod of Beast Shape II. Maybe limit the spell to dire tiger to make it more straight forward, probably reflavored to 'dire fox' with the same stats. Let it still roar inspire courage, but casting spells is not available.

Allow her to take a custom feat 'Dire Fox Shape' to add 'dire fox' to her available shapes. I'd require Fox Shape as a prerequisite. The shape should have some downsides, e.g. no speaking, no casting, hostile NPCs etc..

I actually really like that idea... I will mention that idea to her...

Maybe a talisman or "bad-asser shape" found on a druid that would just so happen to also work with a kitsune fox shape...

Thanks guys.

I am the DM and I have no problem with her switching stats or feats around or even rebuilding her character with a different archetype, or even a different class, although I would really prefer if she kept the "flavour", so a skald would be ok, but a paladin, well, I'd be reluctant...

I was the one that rolled the original character, and she had told me that she wanted to play as a bit of a spellcaster... So, I thought to myself, in the back, with a good charisma for the bardic goodies and DC and the ability to activate wands and stuff, and a high dex for the DC and the ability to shoot rays...

Guru-Meditation wrote:
Race, Stats and feats please. "a bard" can be many things. Singing wimpy wuss, or greataxe-wielding half-orc officer.

Fair question and apologies for not posting these in the OP...

She is playing a level 7 Kitsune (they will be levelling up next session, actually).

Right now, her strong stats are charisma, dex and wisdom, with int and 12... (wisdom because the party is quite low in these and lacking a rogue).
Her strength and con are both at 10, I was not thinking that she would do much frontline fighting... Anyway, there would be no problem changing things around as needed...

The other members of the party are a urban barbarian, a cavalier and a sorceress...

I actually looked into the skald, bought the book last week in fact and lended it to her.
Upon reflexion, I am not sure that inspire rage is so useful as the barbarian already has it and the sorceress don't want it...

My plan is to get a few options and then bring them to her to decide which appeals to her the most...

Thanks for everybody's suggestions, by the way...

A player of mine posed me this conundrum; she likes playing her bard but feel inadequate as she does not feel like she is dealing enough damage...

I know, damage is not what a bard is about but...

Any of you would have any suggestions? Oh; and she would really like to keep bardic knowledge, so that restricts the choice of archetypes a fair bit... fire dance maybe?
At this point, I am thinking that the most efficient choice would be to dip into another class, maybe a summoner, or maybe a prestige class like the arcane archer... or the dragon diciple, selecting a gold or red dragon could harmonize with the bonus from fire dancer?

What would you guys suggest?

The field agent (from Pathfinder society primer) can take sneak attack has an advance training.

There is no mention about taking this particular training multiple time, so; based on the description of the class; the player could not take it more than once.
So, it is a flat 1d6 that can't be improved? That's what the rules tend to suggest but it seems strange to me that there is no way to scale it up...

Same thing with the great casting, actually. The character can only improve his spells once?

Thanks for the answers...

A mounted cavalier seems like he can be pretty bad-ass in open terrain...

So, the lance deals double-damage when used "from the back of a charging mount".

Do you know if there other weapons that have that advantage? I suppose it is more of a jousting lance and that's the reason why this bonus does not apply to, for example, a longspear... or any other bracing weapon...

It just always struck me as a bit strange and I was wondering if others felt the same...

Here is an item I designed... What do you guys think?


Slot headband; Weight 1 lb.
Price 4,800 GP
Aura moderate illusion; CL 4th
Spellcraft DC= 19 to identify.

Embedded inside this delicated woven silver headband is a wide onyx band. Standing against the band are mid-relief of rotund gnomes frozen in the middle of various activities: running, fighting with sword and shield…
As a quick action, the wearer of the headband can, three times a day, generate an illusionary sound in any spot within his sight not distant of more than 35ft.
At the time of activation, the wearer can choose that sound to be that of an almost-intelligible conversation (this conversation is in fact gibberish and it is impossible to convey intelligible meaning using that item), of rapidly receding footsteps, of a warrior fighting or of hilarious bodily noises.
After casting, the wearer of the headband can displace the origin of the sound as a move action. However, it can never be more than 35ft away from the headband. The sound last until dismissed by the wearer, until the headband is used again or against the newt dusk at which point the number of use per day resets.
Creatures subjected to this illusion can disbelieve it if they succeed on a will save at DC=15. A creature that fails this save is taken by the illusion and is distracted. For example, the illusionary sound of a warrior on the other side of a fighter might cause him to watch his back for an invisible foe. In effect, this would distract him and grant combat advantage in the same fashion than if he truly was flanked by a real opponent.

Craft Wondrous Item; Ghost Sound; Threatening Illusion; Cost 2,400 GP.

So, basically, I am designing a magical harp for the part's bard. He lacks any ranks in musical skills so we agreed that it would be fun for him to have a harp that plays itself... and can give a Bonus to perform (basically, he just holds it and pretend to be playing, requiring a bluff check, opposed by either the sense motive or perform skill of the person on the other side...).

So, the +5 Bonus to perform is easy. it cost 5² x 100 = 2500GP.

The self-playing part seems to call for a "ghost Sound" spell, as written, it would seems like it would cost 0.5 X 1 x 2000 = 1000GP.

Multiplied by 1.5, that'd make a 4000GP items.

I would also judge that the harp can only "hold" a certain number of tune, let's say half a dozen, and that tunes can be erased to make room for new ones. "Loading" such a tune into the harp would require played on the harp by somebody that has at least a +5 skill modifier to his perform skill.

Now, I ma thinking that the items might be more interesting in use if you can put it on the ground and it Plays by itself... But, based on the description of the spell, it seems like the harp could only Play for a round...
Casting a permanency spell, however, seems prohibitively expensive, at least if you account for the caster Level and the Level of the spell itself...
Or is it just 2500GP on top of the regular spell casting? That'd actually be more reasonable: 1000 + 2500 = 3500GP.
With the cost of the skill upgrade being 2500 x 1.5= 3750 for a total of 7250GP for the item...

Is there something I do not understand?

Ps- As usual, the goal of my question is as much for me to clarify and improve my understanding of the rules than to have a simple answer, so if you could explain your answers as much as possible, that'd be much appreciated...

Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Unless that weapon is different (don't have the book), wounding does 1 point of bleed damage per hit. The enhancement bonus has nothing to do with it.

You are indeed most correct. Funny that, I was convinced otherwise... Actually, it makes more sense that way...


Re-doing the math, the pricing seems actually similar to the rapier...

I ended up calculating a theorical price of 30 000 for the ability to be "always on".

Adding a +3 enhancement on a +1 item, would rise the price of this weapon by... 30 000 GP, from 2000 to 3 2000 GP.

But the rapier is more powerful, dealing an average 3.5 (id6) instead of 1...

Thanks for info. Xeryz, is is interesting...

I see... it does make sense...

I'd like to give my players their "dream items", something that will accompany their character through the campaign so, this sort of runs against using sub-optimal weapons... Although, I generally round up the cost of the magical items I design...

Case in point, the party thief has expressed her love for the Elven curve blade, as well as for viridium weapons.
So, I was thinking of desigining a "blade of elves are bastards", something that first drain the con. of its victim, then infect them with the viridium poison (leprosy/greenblood)... That might be powerful, if she ends up picking the improved critical feat...

Fake Healer wrote:
It just plain shouldn't be allowed. It is, as you said, overpowered to have a weapon that does 1d6 con damage with every hit. Some abilities just shouldn't happen.

Indeed, I certainly agree with that, but I wish to have the numbers, mostly to improve my understanding of how to calculate this kind of values for other spells...

And, yes, there is a dagger of poison that use the poison spell and is much cheaper too (8000gp) and I will most likely end up using that template...

But I would like to make sure my math is, at least theorically, correct...

The rapier of puncturing (page 159 of "Ultimate Equipment") is a really nifty weapon and I have been looking at it to try to understand the design behind the magic weapons a bit before.

Basically it is a +2 rapier that not only has the wounding quality, but also can deal 1d6 points of constitution damage three times a day.
The weapon costs 50320 GP.

Ok, so the 320 GP are easilly accounted for, this is the price of a masterwork rapier.

Then, the wounding ability is a +2 enhancement, so the rapier is the equivalent of a +4 weapon (I guess, it means it deals 4 points of bleeding damage? Nasty...).
As per the book, this +4 enhancement costs 32000 GP.

That means that a +2 wounding rapier would cost 320+32000 =32320GP.

So, the nifty 1d6 con damage three times a day will costs 18000 GP.
Which suggests that, having such an object works every attacks (quite certainly overpowered, I think) would costs (18000X5)/3= 30 000 GP.

Now, I believe that adding a secondary ability on an object increases its prices by 1.5 which suggests that the price of the spell, by itself, would be 20 000 GP.

A use activated spell costs 2000 X Spell level X Caster level so that suggests that the spell level X Caster level is 10.
That does not really add up, right? Maybe a second level spell as at a 5th level caster? Weird.

If I am wrong about the 1.5 the cost bit, that makes the caster level X spell level = 15 which makes much more sense. It is a third level spell cast by a 5 level mage as soon as he gets it, makes perfect sense.

Now, I can't find any spell that deals 1d6 points of constitution damage... The weapon description mentions the spell "harm" that deals the usual hit points damage and... is a 6th level spell... So, could never produce a SLXCL value of 15, let alone 10...

Now, I understand that these discrepancies could be there simply for balance and flavor reasons and that the formula does not really apply.

But it makes me wonder if it is the case or I am just really misunderstanding the math behind such complex weapons... so if anybody more knowledgeable than me could fix my misunderstandings, I would be most grateful...

Amusingly, I logged on the forum to ask the same question: what's be the cost of of a shortsword that'd give a +2 bonus to strength.

8310; I believe, was my calculation. 9510 for one made of reinforced viridium...

I was also thinking about one that let you cast "enlarge person" on yourself; I guess it would cost 10 (base)+300 (masterwork)+200(viridium)+1000(reinforcement)+2000(+1 magic)+1800*1*1*1.5 = 6210 gp.
Is that correct?

Now, I might make the activation a free action, but raise as if it was "use activated" instead and, in this case; the cost would be:
10+200+300+1000+2000+2000*1*1*1.5 = 6510gp.

Or is there something I got wrong?

As far as funky weapons, I recently gave a masterwork heavy crossbow to one of my player and, in a spur of inspiration, described it as shaped like a skeletal dragon, with the bow like the wing bones of a dragon. He really liked it and made it into his weapon of choice, even taking a proficiency feat he was not planning on so that he could actually use it.
Now, I am starting regretting now making it magic so I was thinking about them finding some sort of magic scope that'd fuse to the crossbow and turn it into a magic weapon.
Next thing you know, I was wondering about also giving the scope some divination magic to go with it because; he; scope...
The most evident suspect would be true strike, although, there is no way I'd accept a permanent version of it, way too powerful.
So, it would only work twice a day and, by my calculation, it would cost:
2000*1*1*1/5*2/5 = 1200gp
I'd round that up to 1500gp, just 'cause on top of the 2000gp of the +1 magic, that'd come up to 3500gp total, right?

Or am I wrong?
Do you think it's still overpowered? It's only two attacks a day, right?

Or maybe have it work as a "see invisibility":
2000*2*3*1.5 = 9000gp.
A bit outside my budget, but maybe I could just have it work once a day... for 1800...

Anyway, thanks for your patience and advices. I love tailoring magic items for my players, but I am new and not very good at it and I am always worried about "breaking the game"...

Tels wrote:

I'm not sure how you came up with that price at all. As written, you have a pair of bracers that have unlimited uses per day. The spell Corrosive Touch deals 1d4 per caster level. You indicate a 3rd level caster, dealing 3d4 points of damage.

So the Formula would be SL 1 * CL 3 * 1,800 = 5,400 gp. That would be the price for a pair of bracers that gives you unlimited uses in a day.

If you were going for the original 3/day item, it would be (3 * 1 * 1,800) / 1.66 = ~3250

The closest I can come to getting your price is if the item is only 1 use per day and that comes out to 1,080 gp.

Something to remember to is that anytime you create a new item, you should compare it to an existing similar item if possible. Fortunately, we've got a similar item already.


PRICE 8,000 GP

AURA moderate conjuration CL 7th WEIGHT 1 lb.

These heavy leather gloves ripple and flows at the wearer’s command, reshaping to fit any hand, claw, tentacle, or alien limb. The wearer’s


You're right, I was confused.

The price I gave was for a CL1 item, but then, I remembered the CL3 requirement... So, I adjusted that in the item description and in the damage, but not in the price...

Is it a Paizo scenario? My knowledge of such is shamefully spotty...

Also, there are some special rules for haunts.

You could drop a few of them on your players (I imagine, each haunt could be a different aspect of the druid's personality, maybe personalize them to reflect the various animals he turned into. Or maybe it's not one druid but a whole convent that died). That could keep them busy for a while...
Then you could presumably bring the druid ghost at the end, maybe clearing the various haunts forced him to crystalize into a single entity to attack the players...

And, if you still find your ghost druid lackluster in a single fight... Cheat. Give them abilities the rules don't say he should have... Maybe he can still turn incorporal in his animal form. Maybe his presence is so infused in the local surrounding that he can use summon animals at will, even in his animal form, as a free action and an unlimited number of times a day.
Maybe he is ambushing the players in the middle of a stone circle that gives him a regeneration as long as the stones are standing... It's your game, you are free to bend the rule, especially for the BBEG...

Tels wrote:

I see...

Well, changing the damage to acid was mostly cosmetic and to impair my players...

So, I could use the helm as initially priced if it dealt fire damage, right?
Or maybe I could trick it further based on the spell "corosive touch"...

Ok, actually, it makes somewhat more sense as a arm item that way:

Bracers of the Forest Drake
Aura faint evocation; CL 3rd
Slot arm; Price 1,250 gp; Weight 1 lb.

This helmet is formed from the head of a Forest Drake and seems to retain some of the creatures power. When a command word is spoken, the helm adds 3d4 points of acid damage to its wearer next melee attack.

Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, Corrosive Touch; Cost 625 gp.

Well, now I imagine a whole suite of armour, your helm, these bracers, and, I guess, a suite of studded leather that grant resistance to acid. Maybe a pair of boots that mimickate the drake's speed surge ability...

What do you think?

Ok, I did initially post it in its own thread, but it did not seem to generate much interest... I have since reworked it a bit, and here is a good thread for it anyway...

Helm of the monitor lizard.
Aura weak Evocation; CL 4th.
slot head;Price 1,250; Weight 3bs.
This helm is made from the head of a giant monitor lizard. If worn by a raging barbarian, it allows him to spit acid three times a day in a cone-shaped burst with a range up to 15 ft.
The acid normally deals 1d4 points of damage but a succesful reflex saving throw allows the target to only take half damage and this attack allows for spell resistance.

-This helm was designed based on the burning hand spell.
for the pricing, I used the formula: Level 1 spell* level 1 caster *2000 /5 *3 =1200.
I rounded up a wee bit and decided that the item still took a move action to activate, because I did not want it to be too overpowered.
I also wanted to make the item spit acid rather than fire because I like the flavour better and also because my party's fighter is a fire-resistant thiefling and I wanted them to at least have to think a bit before throwing AOEs around...

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So, once again, I am working on designing magic items tailored for my party.
Currently, it is the barbarian I am working on.

One idea I had was to give a "helm of the Komodo dragon" (or some such name).
Basically, it lets the person wearing it use "Acid Splash" 3 times a day.
I evaluate the cost of such item to (0.5 x 1800 x3)/5 = 540gp.
I decided to move away from making the casting last a standard action and instead make it a move action. It, also, does not provoke an attack of opportunity. To compensate for it, I rose the price of the item to 600gp and decided that it could only be used during a rage.

So, I'd like to know if people agree with my pricing or have any suggestion to improve the item.
Also, I went for acid splash for flavor, but I would have loved an area effect spell. Problem is that I can't think of any at level 0 or 1... If you have a suggestion, I'd love to hear it.

Another idea I had was simply to give him an item that grants extra round for his rage but, once again, I could not find any on have no idea as to how to even start pricing such item.
In fact, I have no idea as how to price item that mimick class features or feats. I suspect it is not in the rules because such thing vary so much and would have to be evaluated on a case by case basis...

Anyway, thanks for any help you guys could bring to it, I always prefer to have the opinion of more experimented DM before twicking the mechanics...

That's not a bad idea either... I'll think about it..

So, now that the bard left the group, my party finds itself without a healer. Between magical potions, I decided to throw a wand of minor healing at them.
The problem is that the DC to activate such wand is really high (20) and that, so far, they have not managed to activate it a single time...

They have also found a magical ring (initially, a ring of spell knowledge I had put there for the bard) but have not so far identified it.
I am thinking about swapping it for a ring of "Use Magical Device" (+5 bonus on the skill and cost 2500GP).
I am also planning on ruling that it provides the bonus to an existing skill but do not provide training in said skill. So, an untrained PC could not just pick up the ring and hope to roll high... (the drawback is that I am earmarking the ring for the rogue, but I can live with that).

Anyway, I think my pricing is correct, but I'd like you guys' opinion.
Do you think it is a good idea? Or is that particular item left out of the official list for a reason?

Wow, sorry guys, by the time I wrote that down, there were a bunch more answers...

Wow, thanks to both of you.

Both of these are great and fairly close from what I have in mind (I did not believe I was particularly creative, I just couldn't find anything).

Both are quite a bit more powerful than what I had in mind, however.

Let me starts from the sun blade, as it seems closer from what I have in mind:
The price of 50,335 is pretty close from the 50,000gp recommended for a +5 enhancement bonus weapon...
-It is a +2 bastard sword (+2 enhancement)
-It works as a bane weapon against undead (+1 enhancement)
-It works as a bane weapon against Negative Energy Plane creatures (+1 enhancement)
-It generates sunlight like illumination (unknown level enhancement)
-It gives a penalty to evil creatures (useful if you are afraid of your enemy stealing your sword from you).
-It is a bastard sword but use the short sword statistics when more advantageous (unknown level enhancement).

So, based on that, it would seem like both the sunlight illumination and the enhancement I want are too minor to even qualify as a full level enhancement.

So, I guess, I could add "invulnerability to sunder" on top of it and maybe another minor other effect and that'd be about worth a +1 enhancement.
And, as a twist, I might rule that the blade itself is not magical, it is, literally, "nothing", what is magical is the anchor of the blade to the hilt. So, casting "dispel magic" does not dispel the blade, instead, the blade is no longer anchored and stay in position, floatting in mid-air... but that'd mean that you can't bring the weapon within an antimagic field... which might have annoying gameplay effects...

I am also thinking about adding "ghost touch" to the item after all, ghosties do still exist on our plane of reality, so cutting reality in half should affect them just the same...

That'd sounds like a pretty good weapon already, I think... What's your opinion?

Anyway, thanks for your help guys!

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So, a player of mine is rather adamant about using two bastard swords for her two handed fighter.
It is a bit strange and certainly not optimal but, he, if that's the way she wants to roll...

Now, I was wondering about designing a magic weapon to go with it.
Basically, my idea was, what I call, a shard sword. Essentially, somebody pierced a hole into the fabric of reality and stuck it at the end of a sword hilt. So, the blade is a shard of utter darkness and void.
And, of course, because it is made out of nothingness, it is weightless and treated as a light weapon (I would also probably make it "Keen" and replace its vulnerability to sunder by one to dispelling magic). But, what do you think this enhancement would be worth?

I am thinking about making it a +1 enhancement bonus. After all, the main effect is that the weapon deals 1d10 instead of the 1d6 she'd be dealing with a short sword, so it's effectively a +2 bonus to damage rolls, in average and that's not better than the +3.5 she would get from a flaming sword which is also a +1 enhancement...

Do you guys agree?

Is the group still running? Do you still have room for one more player?

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