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The Scribbler

Silent Saturn's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,448 posts (1,451 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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I picked five domains at random and this is what I came up with.

15)Iphilihisch, Warden of the Pattern
Domains: Air, Artifice, Law, Luck, Madness
Favored Weapon: Rope Dart
The goddess of superstition, subtlety, and grand design. She is best known to offer rewards and boons to people who adhere to strange, seemingly inconsequential ritual and habits. Her devotees claim that there is an overarching pattern-- certain actions, methods, and means that will earn her favor by advancing her divinely complex agenda. But her boons are often inscrutably subtle, her favor is often fickle, and the meaning behind the actions she rewards is never clear. Further, there are tales of her punishing mortals in the guise of rewarding them, encouraging them to undertake actions that ultimately lead them to ruination, either to punish them as indirectly as possible, or because "The Pattern" required them to suffer. In parts of the world where sylphs are common, she is often revered as their ancestor-god.


Bored with the pantheon in the CRB? Homebrewing a whole new setting? Love clerics so much you played one for every deity in the splatbooks? This is the thread for you!

Try to include everything a player would need to know to roll a cleric of that deity, but if you don't have the idea fleshed out yet, that's cool too. Somebody else will be along to fill in the gaps, I'm sure. I'll start.

1.Zhraatha, the Vandal King (CE)
Domains: Artifice, Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Strength
Favored Weapon: Warhammer
God of vandalism and demolition. Bestows his faithful with the means to destroy their enemies' weapons and raze their lands.

2.Count Hemoseptimus (LE)
Domains: Death, Evil, Law, Nobility, War
Favored Weapon: Dagger
God of blood money. From the hired assassin and his clients, to the callous aristocrats who advocate war for political gain, to the wandering sell-sword who offers his loyalty to the highest bidder, the Count is watching.

3.The Keeper (LN)
Domains: Community, Knowledge, Law, Madness, Trickery
Favored Weapon: Blade Boot
Goddess of secrets. There is power in knowing what others do not, and that power is lost when the knowledge becomes widespread. The Keeper grants that power to those she can trust with it. What they do with it is their own secret to keep.


Have everyone in the group agree on a deity, and they all worship it. They don't have to be divine casters, but they do have to be the kind of person who would choose THAT deity to pray to over all the others.

It might not create any major storytelling hooks, but it does pretty much guarantee right out of the gate that there won't be any clashing roleplaying moments, as everyone will be playing characters that have a fairly good basis for getting along. They won't agree on everything, but they'll at least be able to form a coherent group decision on most things.


Bardarok wrote:

So how big of a problem is it?

It's big enough that Paizo decided that it's worth "solving" by just making spellstrike only deal x2 on a crit, but it's not so big that they weren't willing to give scythes and picks a x4 crit multiplier in the first place.

If you don't have a problem with x4 crits, then by all means, keep using them. But some people do. Particularly PFS GMs who are STRONGLY ADVISED NOT to kill a player's character, but also don't have the option of fudging rolls or invoking DM fiat.

It's been said that the Bestiary entry for Orcs use falchions instead of greataxes because even x3 crits were letting low-CR fights kill PCs far above their weight class. But Paizo left scythes and picks in the CRB because some people like their natural 20's to feel like gifts from the gods.


I'm pretty sure the idea is that you don't "retrieve" the rope dart at all, in the sense of "safely catching it, getting a solid grip on it, and throwing it again". You instead use the rope dart's own momentum to swing it around on the rope for another go.


The rope dart has the "monk" property, which means it can be used to make a flurry of blows. Therefore, retrieving the dart must be a free action, or else you couldn't flurry with it.


If 3.5 had channeling, it was in an expansion book. I just cracked open my old 3.5 PHB and there's no channeling in it. There is "turn or rebuke undead" though.

And as a matter of fact, the only 3.5 cleric I ever played was in a very roleplay-heavy campaign with barely any combat at all, and likely never even would have used channeling if he'd had it.


KutuluKultist wrote:
3.5 made no distinction between channeling to harm and channeling to heal. The only distinction was positive or negative energy.

3.5 didn't even have Channel Energy. You chose cure or inflict spells, and whether they harmed or healed depended on whether or not your target was living or undead.


Bones Oracle looks like a pretty solid choice. As early as level one, you can have a skeleton cohort for 3+Cha rounds per day, then you can get Animate Dead as a bonus spell and Command Undead as a bonus feat. You also get a revelation that lets you inflict negative levels as a ranged touch attack. And that's before you even pick and feats, spells known, or even your starting race.


Are we homebrewing these archetypes right here in the thread, or should that be saved/moved to a different thread? I'm ready to write up the "rogue with cavalier order" pretty much right now.


Shamelessly stolen from Borderlands 2: how about a gun where the last bullet in the gun deals additional damage? How much extra damage depends on how many bullets the gun holds-- the higher the capacity, the more extra damage you get for using them all.

Additionally, a gun where you have a % chance per shot to ADD an additional bullet to the gun instead of using one up. How this would be accomplished is beyond me, but it would be awesome.


Silent Saturn wrote:

Barbarians, the raw muscle/savvy mountain man
Bards, the jacks-of-all-trades
Clerics, the divine spellcaster as versatile as the pantheon
Sorcerers, the avatars of the arcane
Cavaliers, the classically trained soldiers
Inquisitors, the holy warriors and cunning cluefinders
Witches, those granted arcane power through eldritch collusion
and Ninjas, the ones who wield trickery as deftly as any blade

I feel like I should explain my choices a little more.

For full BAB, I kept Barbarians and Cavaliers because they represent the opposite ends of the spectrum: the "man-at-arms" who's gone through formal military training, and the "natural born brute" who lets sheer strength and determination see him through. A Fighter can easily be either one, and because of that it was hard to cut him.

It amazes me just how versatile Clerics really are. With the right deity and domains, is there ANY character idea or play style that doesn't work as a cleric? This is half the reason I cut druids-- clerics of Gozreh can do all of that, including an animal companion with the right domain.

Speaking of animal companions, how important is it to everybody to include a class that gets them in your Elite Eight? The biggest reason I chose Cavalier over Fighter is that I had already cut every other class that gets an animal companion by default. If nobody in my group had any interest in having animal companions, I'd replace Cav with Fighter, but on some level I thought it was important to leave at least one "pet class" in.

I like that my Elite Eight includes prepared and spontaneous casters in both arcane and divine-- I didn't do it on purpose. I also didn't look at primary casting stats, but I ended up including a pretty good mix: two Wisdom casters, two Cha-casters, and one Int-caster, none of whom share a spell list. How much "caster diversity" is everybody else aiming for?

Once my list was done, I went through each class I cut and asked myself "Which of my final eight best covers what this class is good at?" Witches and sorcerers cover the oracle's "magic through mysterious means", barbarians and ninjas can both be built to fight unarmed, either cavalier or cleric can do what we expect of a paladin, etc. Nothing comes close to a summoner's eidolon, but all three of the full-casters I kept get Summon Monster spells. Even firearms aren't off the table-- the cavalier gets a Musketeer archetype, there's the Black Powder inquisition, and if ninjas can still take rogue talents, they can get firearm proficiency and grit feats with them. If you think there's a class I dropped that can't be replaced by one I kept, you're welcome to challenge me on it.


I'd drop half-elves and half-orcs, and probably also halflings, since they're just too obvious an ersatz hobbit (and it's weird that the name they identify with implies that they're "half" of something else. Wouldn't humans be "doublings" to them?)

In their place? I always felt like Paizo missed an opportunity not bringing tieflings into the game from Day One. They also pick up the slack that the half-orcs' absence leaves behind. Grippli are a good choice for a second Small race. Not sure who I'd pick for the seventh. Warforged are a bit "out there" for a core race. I want to say Sylph, but Gnomes already cover the "fey/natural world" angle. Fetchlings would be a good choice, since they're associated with shadow magic without being drawn to evil.

There we go: Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Tieflings, Grippli, and Fetchlings


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I'm gonna do this backwards, and go through which classes I could do with eliminating until I'm down to eight. I'm not counting ACG yet.


-Monks have always felt kind of out of place, and mechanically they're hard to build well.

-Druids are way too complicated, and you can get the same flavor with a Cleric of the god of nature.

-Paladins are strong, but their alignment issues and narrow niche makes them easy to cut. Their weird 4/9 spellcasting barely has a place in the game either.

-Same goes for antipaladins.

-Speaking of 4/9 spellcasting, the Ranger is out too. We'll fill the "wilderness survivalist" niche with somebody else, thanks.

-Rogues, like monks, are just too hard to build right, and have no niche you can't do with a bard, inquisitor, alchemist, or ninja.

-Speaking of, alchemists play like schizophrenic bards, so they can go too.

-Oracles are a spont-cast class using a spell list that was obviously built for a prep-cast class, and clerics are more versatile anyway, so they can go.

-I cut the spont-caster out of the cleric/oracle pair, so I'll cut the prep-caster out of the sorcerer/wizard pair. Sorry, wizards.

-Magi can go, since you can basically do that with multiclassing.

-Gunslingers can go, and the firearms rules can go with them.

-Samurai are an alternate class, and therefore redundant.

-Same goes for antipaladins. Again.

-The summoner is a whole mess of rules text that doesn't need to exist.

-And finally, the fighter, because his two main roles in the game are covered by classes that made the cut.

And that leaves us with...

Barbarians, the raw muscle/savvy mountain man
Bards, the jacks-of-all-trades
Clerics, the divine spellcaster as versatile as the pantheon
Sorcerers, the avatars of the arcane
Cavaliers, the classically trained soldiers
Inquisitors, the holy warriors and cunning cluefinders
Witches, those granted arcane power through eldritch collusion
and Ninjas, the ones who wield trickery as deftly as any blade.

I'd say this collection leaves us with all the roles covered. Two full-BAB classes with plenty of difference between them, three 9th-level spellcasters with three different spell lists, and three medium-BAB characters: one with arcane magic, one with divine, and one with neither. Just about every fantasy trope I can think of is covered here somewhere (although I find it a bit odd that the "animal companion" class is the cavalier) or can be with a little squinting.


fretgod99 wrote:
Why is the assumption that you're hitting the same enemy with all your attacks? I've never seen that argument before.

Well, you don't have to, of course, but I would think you'd want to be able to at least, right? Focusing fire on one enemy means he goes down sooner, and then there's fewer enemies wailing on you, right?

Plus, what if there's only one enemy in the fight? Then you're attacking it or nobody.

If the two ends of the kusarigama don't threaten at the same range, you can't use them both on the same enemy, and that's just horribly counter-intuitive to me at least.


The Six-Summoner. A pepperbox with six barrels, but each barrel is keyed to a different summoning spell and summons the appropriate monster. Your attack roll isn't aiming the shot, it's commanding the summon to attack the target you aim at, and if you "miss" the monster chooses its own target. You also can't choose which one to summon; you either fire and the next monster in the rotation appears, or you can spin the barrel as a swift action and roll 1d6 to determine what you've summoned. ;)

The Rock-It Launcher. A hopper in the back can be loaded with any item size Tiny or smaller. Bags of caltrops or marbles, rocks, fistfuls of nails, chalk, candles, empty bottles, you name it. For an added bonus, any item under the effect of a Shrink Item spell is automatically re-enlarged after firing.

The Ballistazooka. Somewhere between firearm, crossbow, and siege weapon, this massive gun is supported on the weilder's shoulder as well as several self-contained Floating Disk spells, and fires steel harpoons with enough force to punch through a redwood and take down a moose behind it. Made impractical by long reload times and the weight of the ammo (one "bolt" weighs at least thirty pounds) but useful for sundering obstacles and hitting the creatures using them for cover.


The real problem here is the way the double, reach, and monk properties interact. If you flurry with a double weapon, the assumption is that you're hitting the same enemy with all your attacks, yes? If one end of the weapon has reach and the other doesn't, that means you have to be adjacent to one enemy and 10 feet away from a second enemy and divide your attacks between them.


There's another thread around here about the "scariest monster" in Pathfinder. (I voted for derro, and just added another reply, so it should be easy to find) Take a look at that thread, pick what you think is super creepy, and then make a character that "admires" that monster. It could be as simple as thinking they're cool, maybe just having a picture of one on your shield and occasionally mentioning their "noble" qualities. Then you start comparing people to this monster when you want to compliment them. You find a way to mention this thing whenever you need to talk to an NPC. You start buying potions of Monstrous Physique/Beast SHape/Undead Anatomy/whatever (or learn the spell, if you're a caster) just so you can be more like this creature. Let it grow into an obsession.

Eventually the GM is going to succumb to the temptation to pit you against one. What you do then is up to you.


Ascalaphus wrote:
Silent Saturn wrote:

My vote for scariest goes to Derro. They have "shadow communities" underneath just about every major city, they sneak into your house and steal you out of your bed at night when there's nothing you can do about it, and they "experiment" on you for unknown reasons. Usually these experiments erase your memory of the abduction and then they bring you back, but on some level the mental scars are still there, along with the results of the "experiment". And then sometimes they DON'T erase your memory. And sometimes you DON'T make it back.

Mechanically, they're everything that's frightening about gnome or halfling sorcerers, plus they use their Charisma for Will saves instead of their Wisdom. Also any group of them is bound to have a guy whose weapon can trip you from 20 feet away.

Have you been watching Dark City again?

NO, I've never even heard of it. Something I should look into?

I do think that on some level, derro are scary because they're a threat to you when you're in the city. Cities are supposed to be safe. In cities, the natural world and all its threats have been conquered, beaten back. Cities aren't perfect, of course, but while you're in one, you have a whole infrastructure set up to keep you safe. Even muggers are more interested in your money than in causing you harm, and you can report them to the police.

The thought of an entire species of humanoid that lives undetected in the shadow of a city and makes prey of its citizens without the authorities even noticing is pretty terrifying.


A rogue archetype that gets bonus feats instead of rogue talents. Maybe there could be a list of feats the rogue can choose from, like a ranger's combat style, or just "any combat feats" if you wanted a Fighteresque archetype.


How about a rogue archetype that trades away its rogue talents for a cavalier order? All the orders grant additional class skills and skill bonuses, so they'd be a good fit for the skill class. Maybe we could also give the rogue a limited form of Challenge, so they can benefit from their order's Challenge ability?

I want to say that the rogue should then get to sneak attack the target of her challenge at will, but that may be pushing it.


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A cleric of Zon-Kuthon. Lost his parents tragically, and couldn't cope with the pain of loss, so he turned to the god of pain and loss. Believes that there's some sort of honor in suffering, or has simply forgotten what it feels like to be happy. Attends the funerals of strangers whenever he gets the opportunity so as to "congratulate" the bereaved. Prepares his spells in the evening, and his prayer takes the form of crying himself to sleep at night.

A gnome summoner. He himself is a perfectly pleasant fellow, but his eidolon appears to be a horrible undead monstrosity of peeled-back skin and stitched-together viscera. It can also talk, and will randomly start describing horrible things at odd intervals. If anyone asks why this ordinary gnome has such a ghoulish eidolon, the gnome can only shrug, but the eidolon insists his form on this plane is an expression of its master's true soul.


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Here's another idea. I'm pretty sure there's already a Cavalier archetype that trades the mount for a ship or other vehicle. How about one that trades it for a siege engine? Sir Zierich and his trebuchet? I'd play that character!

Actually, this idea works just as well as a gunslinger archetype...


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Have a nobleman hire the party to be his daughter's bodyguard during a perilous journey. The daughter is your typical spoiled princess and treats the whole thing like a big sleep-over, except not when the fighter is around. She's constantly finding whatever reason she can to send him out of earshot, so she can "gab" with the ladies.

Also, when the party goes to buy new armor, have the blacksmith be very embarrassed about having to take a woman's measurements for armor, and call in his wife to do it. He makes awkward, "macho" small talk with the fighter while this is going on.


UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Since this would make the number of spells known quite small, you'd probably want to make this a non-Oracle spontaneous divine caster.

Sure is a relief to be posting on a real computer again instead of a phone . . . .

Maybe instead of spont-casting Cure or Inflict, they can spont-cast domain spells? I think there's a Druid archetype that already allows for that.

Which reminds me, I'd also like to see a Druid archetype that's more focused on being a spellcaster. Must choose a domain for her nature bond, and trades away Wild Shape for an additional domain every four levels. She should probably get some extra domains to choose from if that's the case. How about Darkness, Sun, Strength, and the domain of her non-neutral alignment?


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I'd also like to see a Cleric that gets three, four, or even all five of her deity's domains, by trading out the entire rest of her spell list. Yes, that even includes the cure and inflict spells. Can't even activate wands of them. She can trade away Channel Energy too, if that's necessary to make it balanced.


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An alchemist archetype based on the image of the Old West "snake oil salesman". Uses CHA instead of INT, and trades away mutagens and bombs for a few bardic performance abilities where he draws in a crowd and influences them. At high level, he's such a convincing salesman that he can actually improve his tonics by talking them up (a placebo effect?)

A character that focuses on poison would be nice, but the real obstacle to poison isn't the risk of poisoning yourself, it's the prohibitive cost of poison. The solution? A druid archetype that focuses on venomous animals and eventually gains the ability to produce any kind of poison on command.

Similarly, an antipaladin archetype that revolves around the Plague Beacon ability to make the antipally a walking Patient Zero. Anyone he hits with his evil LoH has to save vs. his diseases, he can summon diseases via his Profane Bond, etc.

An Inquisitor archetype that plays up the angle of uncovering secrets and tracking down the truth. Trades away Bane and the teamwork feats for some divination abilities.


Summary: "Room of Portcullis Cage Traps"

Encounter CR: variable, no higher than 7-8.

Type of Encounter: skill challenge/mini-game, with optional combat

Encounter: The PCs discover a room, 100 feet by 120 feet. There is one exit on the far side of the room, and six or seven 5' cages throughout the room. Each cage contains a Medium humanoid of the GM's choice-- ideally, the PC's won't share a language with any of them. Mindless undead would also be a good choice. At least one cage should contain a corpse, preferably with a nice bit of treasure visible in its possession.

A fairly easy Perception check reveals that every 5' square in the room is a pressure plate. Each plate resets as soon as you step off of it, and there is no way to stand in the room without triggering at least one plate. For every plate that is triggered, the GM picks a random 5' square in the room (by rolling a d10 and a d12). If that square has no cage, iron bars drop down from the ceiling and surround that square in a cage, trapping anything in that square. If that square already had a cage, the bars are raised, releasing anything that was trapped. The cage bars provide partial cover for any attack made into or out of them, and the monsters already in the cages will be hostile. At the GM's discretion, one of them may have a ranged weapon, or a polearm. They are on the verge of starvation, and will attempt to steal the PC's supplies in the hopes of finding food, or even try to kill and eat the PCs. If a PC becomes trapped, they can escape with a moderate Escape Artist check as a full-round action, but doing so puts them in an adjacent square and triggers another plate.

Once the PCs make it through the room, they will find a staircase not far away that leads to a "control room" with a mirrored spyglass to view the room from above, a board of buttons to activate specific squares on command, and a lever to release/disable all the cages.


You said he likes "continuous damage spells" and "fear spells". Pathfinder doesn't really have any damage-over time effects besides bleed, but fear spells are very doable. A Cleric would be a good choice. Command and Cause Fear are both available to them at Level 1, and they both capture the feel of a Warlock sending his enemies fleeing. Clerics can also summon creatures, which will fit in just fine with a WoW Warlock.

Have him be a neutral cleric of an evil deity, so he can throw around negative energy and call it Shadowbolt. Asmodeus would be a good fit, as he's the one most likely to form contracts and grant fire spells (two things WoW Warlocks are sort of about as well).

This also has the advantage of introducing him to the alignment system, the concept of "preparing spells" and the nuances of roleplaying a character. (Clerics have their alignment and an overview of their beliefs built into the crunch, so building a personality for them is a little easier than just "Bob the Fighter swings a sword. What's his motivation?")


I don't know if we've got any Magic: the Gathering players in the thread, but the demonic cult you're describing is pretty similar to their Cult of Rakdos. A cult of personality built up around the demon Rakdos the Defiler, its members are almost entirely assassins, butchers, wetworkers, and psycopaths when they're not putting on incredibly hedonistic and dangerous revels or gory performance art. There's plenty of inspiration to draw from here-- from the monstrous to the all-too-human. For starters...

Gladiators to fight in an arena and whip the crowd into a frenzy.

Trained animals always make a good show, right?

A spellcaster with some decent enchantment spells to act as a... "talent scout" let's call it.

An act with some audience participation whether they like it or not.

And if they don't like it, we call in the bouncers.

If you want something a little less extreme, how about a human fighter with Exotic Prof: Battle Poi and Dazzling Display?

Really anybody could be a member as long as they like bloodshed and torture. And tittilation of course!

Where there's danger for fun's sake, there must be a little gambling right?

Just make sure the act ends on a strong finale and you're all set!


My vote for scariest goes to Derro. They have "shadow communities" underneath just about every major city, they sneak into your house and steal you out of your bed at night when there's nothing you can do about it, and they "experiment" on you for unknown reasons. Usually these experiments erase your memory of the abduction and then they bring you back, but on some level the mental scars are still there, along with the results of the "experiment". And then sometimes they DON'T erase your memory. And sometimes you DON'T make it back.

Mechanically, they're everything that's frightening about gnome or halfling sorcerers, plus they use their Charisma for Will saves instead of their Wisdom. Also any group of them is bound to have a guy whose weapon can trip you from 20 feet away.


The person you should really be asking this to is your girlfriend, since she's the one you'll be building these characters with. Best advice I can give you is pick a strategy first and then a pair of classes to support it.

If you both want to do melee, any two of Inquisitor, Cavalier, Hunter, or even Fighter would let you two stock up on teamwork feats (most of which want you to be in melee) and help guide you toward a set of common tactics.

For a pair of casters, it's as easy as making sure you two don't overlap on spell lists. One of you can go arcane, the other divine? One grabs all the AoEs, the other loads up on single-target save-or-lose spells? One debuffs and locks down while the other blasts?

If you want an "opposites attract" build, I always thought it'd be cool to see a glass cannon archer or caster paired with a reach-weapon build. The fragile one stands next to the polearm wielder at all times and controls the battle from range while the polearm partner wrecks anything that enters the Zone of Death. If the fragile one is a caster, Enlarge Person really sells it. It's a nice pairing (in theory) because neither one is really the "sidekick"-- in one fight, the reach fighter might just play bodyguard while the glass cannon carries the fight, but then in another fight the cannon's main contribution is a timely buff to the reach fighter, who then crits for every point of damage ever.


Summary: Hostile monsters on a cliff face.

Type of Encounter: Combat, with limited skill

CR: Can be adjusted, but give whichever monsters you choose a CR adjustment for terrain favorable to them.

Encounter: For the most part, it's a standard "wandering monster" encounter, but with one major twist-- the battle map doesn't display top down, but from the side. The map is the side of a cliff-- moving "north" or "south" requires an appropriate Climb check. Draw ledges running "east" to "west" where characters can stand safely. A player who falls may be able to land on a ledge instead of falling the whole distance. You may also add ropes from a previous climbing group if you think the party will need them, or if this is logically part of a commonly-traveled route.

Comments: I originally drew the map so that it would be possible for high-DEX characters to jump from one ledge to the next while STR-based characters used Climb. I used a pair of low-CR monsters with a Climb speed (don't remember what kind). The party really struggled with it, despite having a sorcerer that could cast Fly. This would also be an easy encounter to trivialize if you've got a dedicated archer or the right spells, but in the right group it could be fun. My group... was not the right group.


If you want to flesh out a character's personality, pick a deity for him to worship and give him the associated religion trait. Abadar is one of my favorites, and Eyes and Ears of the City is a pretty good trait if you're not taking Reactionary.

If you just can't see your character as having any love for a Lawful deity, then Fortified Drinker is kind of funny on the other side of the coin, as long as you're willing to constantly carry a flask and convince your GM that yes, it's been less than an hour since your last gulp. I think if I were the GM, I'd want that player to start tracking his liquor budget though.

Dirty Fighter is a pretty nice trait for a rogue, or for any melee who's in a party with a rogue. It also mentions a childhood friend, which means you have to actually decide who it was, therefore opening up roleplay opportunity.


Gnomes are unpredictable and drastic. I have a hard time seeing them winning, but they'd definitely be the kingmakers-- they'll take out one or even two of the others before exhausting their resources.

My vote therefore goes to the halflings, as they're the ones the gnomes are least likely to go after first.


Athaleon wrote:
I'm not sure how practical this concept is, mechanically or morally. Does the rest of your party have the same prohibition? If not, I don't see how you can be their enabler without breaking your code (for example, keeping them healthy so they can do your HP damage for you).

I don't see why the rest of my party would be any more of a problem for me than it would be for any other Paladin. The Paladin's code states that he can't ally himself with evil people unless circumstances force his hand, but it doesn't hold a Paladin's allies to the rest of the code. The CG Bard or Rogue can Bluff their way out of tight spots while the Paladin is bound to honesty, but that doesn't mean a Paladin is breaking his code by being there when they do. Being a Paladin means a commitment to righteousness that the common folk, and even many heroes, just aren't able to maintain. A Paladin should try to be an inspiration to those around him, and influence people away from evil, but he can't possibly expect everyone to live by the code he follows.

Dazz suggested I max out social skills in order to prevent situations from getting to the point where initiative is rolled. If that's the case, then my party isn't drawing their weapons either, at least not until making an honest go at doing it the peaceful way. If that's the limit of my ability to turn my allies away from resorting to bloodshed, then so be it. I don't need to talk the Fighter out of Weapon Specialization (Tetsubo) if I can prevent him from adding a few notches to its hilt.


It all seems like a fine way to run Leadership to me.

Personally, I kind of always wanted to run it as the PC announcing an open position in the group (a sort of "want ad") and the GM comes up with a few rough ideas for applicants, then the PC picks one and the GM fleshes out the build.

For example, the PC writes up an announcement: "Adventurer wanted. Must have experience with arcane magic and with the sword. Inquire: Rolf the Red at the Fizzing Flask Tavern."

It sounds like the player wants a bard, but from that description, a magus might apply, or even a tengu wizard (or a gnome fighter for that matter). The GM would think of a few ideas for characters that would meet that description, and then write down names, class levels, and maybe a few feats on index cards. The player then picks a candidate, and the GM finishes the character sheet.

If it's the right group for it, you could even roleplay the interviews.


Balgin wrote:

There's an aasimar paladin archetype (the tranquil guardian)that suits this concept quite well. Additionally get a merficul weapon. Preferably a vicious merciful weapon (as you can always lay on hands on yourself to stay in a fight).

How does this merciful approach work with regards to creatures who are immune to nonlethal damage such as undead?

I'm not talking about "only nonlethal damage", I'm talking about "no damage whatsoever". If all I wanted was nonlethal damage, I'd take the Bludgeoner feat and a heavy flail and I'd be all set.

The Aasimar archetype might be worth looking at though. I hadn't picked a race yet.


I want to play a Paladin whose code of conduct forbids him to ever knowingly deal HP damage.

My GM has agreed to let me use a modified form of Smite Evil, granting me bonuses to my CMB and CMD (and possibly AC) so that I can benefit from the class feature without having to roll for damage.

So, how do you think I should do it? My thoughts so far:

-If you never deal damage, Power Attack and Improved Unarmed Strike are more of a feat tax than Combat Expertise, believe it or not. Thus I should focus on Disarming and Tripping. Dirty Tricks and Stealing seem quite unfit for a Paladin, though technically they aren't off the table.

-Since I don't need a weapon in my hands, I could use the Flagbearer feat. I'll have the Charisma for it.

-Free hands and solid Charisma also lends itself well to using wands. What sorts of wands would such a character need?

If anybody has anything else to add, I'm listening.


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54) No, I'm not just filling this thread with references to movies you haven't seen. I thought of these myself, and they would absolutely be useful in an average campaign.


97. The Knights of the Vine

A chivalric order of knights, vintners, warriors, and nobility who champion the winemaking profession. They began as the drinking buddies of a foppish noble and vineyard owner, along with some mercernaries he had hired to defend the property from a nearby goblin tribe. The noble eventually knighted his companions, and founded the Knights of the Vine, possibly while drunk. The order gained in influence and credibility after joining with a nearby church of Cayden Cailean.

Today, the Knights of the Vine boasts over six hundred members across a large portion of the countryside. Members frequently meet for the sole purpose of imbibing, but are also known to rally to the aid of any grape-growers whose crop is threatened, or to quest for arable farmland on which to grow grapes, undiscovered groves of wild elderberries, or forgotten strongholds or dungeons suitable for converting to wine cellars.


13. [You find the bandit stronghold and knock on the gate.] Oy! We just got back from robbing the caravan, and it was full of mead! Somebody get out here and help us carry it all in! We've got enough for a year and a day!


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93. The Order of the Axe
A fraternal order of hunters, hermits, survivalists, and scroungers. Members of the Order exchange wilderness survival techniques and maintain a number of strongholds far from civilization. Most members are well-trained in archery and ambush tactics, and most kingdoms in which the Order has a presence have come to rely on them as a sort of freelance militia, scouting the wildlands and slaying monsters before they can reach the population centers.

Upon joining, you are given a hatchet with the Order's signet in the head. The axe identifies you to your Order brothers, but you are also expected to be able to use it as a tool if needed. The Order of the Axe is a practical organization for practical people. They also have a fairly extensive network of supply stockpiles and caches. Establishing and maintaining your own such stockpile is part of the requirement for high-ranking members, and once you obtain that rank, you are given a map of all members' stockpiles. Members are also expected to render aid to any traveler in need they encounter.

Unfortunately, due to the nature of the Order's mission, most of its members are antisocial, maladjusted, or paranoid. Many simply join in order to use the strongholds as cheap lodging, others are obsessed with survival because they believe the end of the world is upon them. Still others join and disappear into the wilderness shortly thereafter, by accident or design.


A Bard focusing on Sonic spells would be an interesting choice. Not sure how "unusual" they are, since there's an archetype dedicated to it, but that just means there's plenty of support for it.

If you really want quirky, try a blast-focused Inquisitor! It won't be easy or optimized, I'll grant, but Inquisitors get all the Inflict spells, plus a few unique gems like Cast Out or Confess. Confess counts as a blast if you can render the target unable to answer a question first, right? ;) And Cast Out is UNTYPED damage, that still deals half on a successful save! Plus, Inquisitors get a Judgment to boost their concentration checks and ability to pierce SR, something other spellcasters have to take feats to do.


There actually ARE rules in Pathfinder for what a phobia does to you. They're in the Game Mastery Guide, under "sanity and madness" rules, along with Mania, Psychosis, Amnesia, and so forth.

Checking it out might give you a hint of what to pick, and how it might or might not be used against you.

Since you're a Cleric of Pharasma, fear of undead would be an interesting choice, but you'd struggle in any fight against them. At least Will is your good save!


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The Rough and Ready trait lets you treat any tools of your trade as actual weapons AND gives you a +1 to hit with them. You wouldn't need Catch Off-Guard at all, but you'd still need one rank in a Craft or Profession that involves shoveling. Profession(ditch-digger)?

Then again, if you really want to be able to hit flat-footed AC, you may be better off with Catch Off-Guard. Since Rough and Ready makes a shovel "not improvised" for you, you wouldn't get Imp. Weapon Mastery either. That saves you a couple of feats, but loses you the 19-20/x2 crit range.


If you're playing up the "greedy" angle, you definitely need to take Blood Money as soon as possible. Not sure what spells you'd use it to cast, but you still need it. ;) Create Treasure Map would also be a great thematic choice.

Sadly, I never played Mummy's Mask, or a DD, so I'm not sure I'm any more help than that.


If you want Measured Response's simplicity without actually fishing through Inner Sea Gods, then be a Small race and specialize in shuriken. They deal 1 damage for Small character, so just add your bonuses and you're all set.


One of the Golems is, but I can't remember which one either. I suspect it's the Flesh Golem, since Frankenstein and lightning and all that.


This is also one of the reasons Silent Image is such a nice spell for a Sorcerer. It has a duration of "concentration", so with judicious use and a little luck you can just spend the entire combat maintaining your illusion.

You need to make sure it's a good one, though...

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