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Sajan

ShinHakkaider's page

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 1,358 posts. No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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Freehold DM wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Might have been just my impression... Although the pacing didn't feel "natural", either.

FINALLY!

EVERYONE said I was crazy that the pacing for the movie was off, but I KNEW it wasn't right. It was as if he made the movie on a tight timeline and was rushing he way through.

WATCHMEN needed a TV Mini-series treatment 10 Episodes on HBO or something like that. There's just WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much content to fit into the confines of a 3+ hour movie to do the story it's full justice.

I like WATCHMEN up until the very ending (and it's not that they changed the squid out, I'm actually fine with that change) where it seems that the change that was made pretty much negates the entire point of the movie.

He definitely gets the visuals but anything else? Shaky.


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Snyder's first feature film was the DAWN OF THE DEAD remake written by James Gunn (Guardians of the Galaxy). I thought that it was pretty damn good.


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Hama wrote:

If I wanted to know about a movie's artistic value, I'd ask a critic. If I wanted to know about a movie's fun value, I most certainly wouldn't ask a movie critic.

ShinHakkaider wrote:
Those reviews were in the 90's at first. Lets see what that Audience score is after two weeks in wide release. I think the more people see the movie the lower that audience score is going to get. And I honestly dont see that critic score getting above 60%.
Slippery slope fallacy

Maybe.

But here were are two weeks later and I wasnt wrong.


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Grey Lensman wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Talonhawke wrote:
I agree I can't think of of any, but I also can't think of too many in general who would work out as other ethnicity it tends to be a part of the character to me. I wouldn't want a white Falcon or Luke Cage anymore than an Asian Superman or Hispanic Punisher.

Note that ShinHakkaider's request wasn't for non-white characters you think could race swap, but just prominent non-white characters from existing works that have been made into movies who could even be candidates.

Leaving superheroes aside for the moment, how many black leading roles in fantasy/sf movies developed from books or other works can you name?

IIRC, Briareos Hecatonchires from Appleseed is African. But since he is a full blown cyborg with no visible fleshy bits - he could easily be played by anyone if a film was ever made. Bonus relevance - Same author as Ghost in the Shell

Yes but as you stated there's NOTHING visually that identifies him as such so he's a really bad example to use. Not to mention that the times we've seen him in flashbacks in movies or animation he STILL looks like a slightly tanned white d00d...


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Talonhawke wrote:
So just gonna ask then since its not an issue for certain characters to be race swapped, can anyone name a non-white character they think could be swapped without it affecting the characters identity?

How about you give us a list of prominent non-white characters and we'll go through it?


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:


The fact that Scarlett Johanson is playing a character named Mokoto Kusangi in a movie where the bodies can be made to order with whatever enhancements and features you can afford or desire makes me a little more understanding of the whitewashing that's being done here. As long as it's something that tangentially addressed in the movie itself at some point. Especially when in the real world asians eschewing their natural facial features in favor of more European looking ones is a real thing that happens in OUR actual world.

Save that if you look real honestly into it, with the context of all the other whitewashing that's been going on, from the history of Bruce Lee's Kung Fu TV series, to the replacement of the Ancient One with a white woman, you'll see that such theorising had nothing to do with the actress selection for the film.

And to toss the concept right back at you... with all that possibility, why did the anime character not flip into various bodies of gender, race, and nationality? Most likely because her identity is so riddled with instability, her self image as a japanese female is that much more important. Just as gender identity is a big issue to most of us, whether cis or trans.

Of course, I know why she was cast. She was cast because white people pretty much will go see other white people in movies and casting an asian actress as the lead of what's obviously going to be a big budget movie was a non-starter. They probably wasn't going to get this movie made at all WITHOUT the involvement of a white actress in the lead. That's obviously the reality.

Was I rationalizing because I thought that it was right? No. Maybe me saying "understanding of the white washing that's being done here" was not the best way to say it. It was more me seeing how they could play it to a less informed audience who may go see this movie and ask themselves "Why is Scarlett Johansen playing the part of a woman named Makoto Kusanagi?"

I know about the History of whitewashing in hollywood, pretty well. At this point it's 2016 and people are STILL doing it because the same attitudes remain. White actors are okay to play ANYTHING and for the most part other white people are okay with it (which is all that matters. Anything else is seen as SJW whining). Any other race CANT play anything either because it's unbelievable (See Idris Elba as James Bond) or white people start complaining about actors of color taking parts away from white actors (YES an actual complaint I've had someone say to me). At this point I'm kind of picky about what I support and what I don't and unless this movie looks and IS amazing? I'm going to just pass and re-watch my copies of GITS: SAC and GITS: SAC 2nd GIG instead.

Sorry for the miscommunication on my part.


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archmagi1 wrote:

I'm pretty sure Craig would rather *be* Bond than *play* Bond. His post production - pre marketing interviews for both Skyfall and Spectre paint his experience as one of the most arduous and unenjoyable things he has ever done. I know he is under contract to be Bond for a fifth film, but I really doubt that he'll still have it in him to do the worst thing in life for a fifth time.

Its been 9 years of Bond for Craig, 2 more than Bronson's 7, 5 more than Dalton's 2. Sure he's still 3 years short of Moore's 12, but he's right on par with Connery's 9 EON years. Yes he's had a number fewer films than the two most Iconic Bonds, but a 70's or 80's mid-low budget action movie that the Connery and Moore era films were took a whole lot less out of the actor than today's extravaganzas.

Also, lets not forget Connery was wanting out of the Bond Business before his last 2 EON films, which the producers basically had to bribe him to be in. (Note: I'm excluding Never Say Never Again)

So yeah, new Bond seems about time. And there are plenty of young British actors to choose from. I just hope they don't get the kid from Kingsmen to do it. Our new Spiderman *is* a Brit...

As is our Doctor Strange and Superman...


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Hitdice wrote:

Holy bejesus, I just realized I typed "Major Kira" earlier when I meant "Major Kusanagi"; that's a nerd f**k-up of the highest order!

. . .

Seriously, this is worse than the time the president talked about a Jedi mind meld.

No it's not.


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NenkotaMoon wrote:
Well, there was Joey Louis during WWII. Heavy weight champion boxer.

JOE Louis.

Yes and there still was a large number of the white population who still saw him as less than human because of the color of his skin.

Your point?


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Hitdice wrote:


Johansson would make a pretty good Duenan, though.

D00D YES.

Or Saoirse Ronan!!


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I'm of two minds about this. First I'm not a huge fan of either of the GITS movies, they're okay but not good enough to be deified in the anime circles as much as they are. The two SAC series however I feel are really, REALLY well done and get across the ideas of identity and transhumanism better than what was attempted in both movies.

Which brings me to my next issue, one of the BIGGEST themes of GITS is identity and transhumanism. Is your body who you really are or is it your consciousness or ghost? There was a long time during my first viewing of the series where I thought that Mokoto may have actually been a man in a woman's cyborg body. I mean I was wrong about that but my whole point is that the bodies as souped up and cyber as they are are just shells. Hence the title of the show, GHOST IN THE SHELL.

The fact that Scarlett Johanson is playing a character named Mokoto Kusangi in a movie where the bodies can be made to order with whatever enhancements and features you can afford or desire makes me a little more understanding of the whitewashing that's being done here. As long as it's something that tangentially addressed in the movie itself at some point. Especially when in the real world asians eschewing their natural facial features in favor of more European looking ones is a real thing that happens in OUR actual world.


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I seldom come out hard against movies that I dont like. I just usually dont talk about them and try to ignore them but SPECTRE was not only a bad Bond movie but a bad movie all around.

Three espionage/spy movies (maybe even four...) came out that year and they were ALL better than SPECTRE, including the comedy one with Melissa McCarthy, SPY.

KINGSMAN, MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: ROGUE NATION, BRIDGE OF SPIES and SPY were all better movies than SPECTRE. I'll go on record that while far from perfect even THE MAN FROM U.N.C.L.E. was better than SPECTRE.

And I like Daniel Craig as Bond but by the time they make it to *name redacted* secret base I could honestly given a crap as to what would happen next. Best part of the movie was the opening (false hope that the rest of it was going to as good. NOPE.) and then the fight on the train. I rate it just below QUANTUM OF SOLACE I dislike it that much.


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thejeff wrote:
MeanDM wrote:
I... really want to like this trailer, but am having a hard time. Some of it may be that since I have never read comics, the Eastern influence felt really weird to me. That said, I trust Marvel, and will keep an open mind!

I bet the eastern influence felt weird to a lot of early Dr. Strange readers too. Not to mention the 60s psychedelic other dimensions that soon followed.

But yeah, this trailer seemed to tease the background and training part heavily. I'd expect the next one to focus more on the main plot, the baddies and conflict. Magical explosions!

Never mind that during his first few appearances Steve Ditko drew him AS stereotypical Asian, then kind of course corrected after a few issues. Even John Byrne has depicted him as asian from time to time even though by that time it's been established that Steven Strange clearly ISNT.


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thejeff wrote:
atheral wrote:
I'm looking forward to this one, but I thought the studio said they weren't going to do origin stories anymore...this trailer looks an awful lot like an origin story.

It does. But it's a cool origin story, that hasn't already been filmed a dozen times, so I'm fine with it. :)

The "no origins" thing all seems to come from one quote a few years ago, so I'm not sure how solid it is.

I'm not even sure that "no origins" thing is even accurate for introducing new characters. I thought that Feige was talking SPECIFICALLY about a new Spider-Man movie because we've seen his origin story more than a few times.

Even the average person kinda knows Spider-Man's origin. Not many know of Doctor Strange, Carol Danvers (Captain Marvel) or T'Challa (Black Panther).


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ShinHakkaider wrote:

This is my Marvel movie Order of Awesome.

Captain America 2: the Winter Soldier
Avengers
Guardians Of the Galaxy
Ant-Man/Iron Man
Captain America: the First Avenger
Avengers 2: Age of Ultron
Iron Man 3
Thor 2: the Dark World
The Incredible Hulk
Thor
Iron Man 2

My revised list.

I totally forgot Guardians and Ant-Man!!


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This is my Marvel movie Order of Awesome.

Captain America 2: the Winter Soldier
Avengers
Iron Man
Captain America: the First Avenger
Avengers 2: Age of Ultron
Iron Man 3
Thor 2: the Dark World
The Incredible Hulk
Thor
Iron Man 2


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The first hour or so of Captain America The First Avenger is pretty much as perfect as an origin story gets for me. It pretty much gets EVERYTHING right about Steve and who he is.

The rest of the movie struggles a little bit to maintain that intensity and as a result the movie as a whole suffers for it.

My favorite and what i consider the best of the Marvel Studio films is Captain America The Winter Soldier. Its a political thriller disguised as a super hero film and holy crap is it GLORIOUS. The first Avengers movie is second. Despite a relatively slow start, when its time for the payoff? WOW. Its one of the only movies in recent years that I saw in the theater at least 3 times during its initial run. I saw it again for a fourth time in the theater as part of the Avengers \ Avengers Age of Ultron double feature.

The problem that I have with IM3 is that as much as I'm a fan of Shane Black? I wanted to see an Iron Man movie directed by Shane Black. Not a Shane Black Iron Man movie. I dont know if that makes any sense but it did in my head and as I was writing it. I REALLY hated the twist with the "Mandarin". HATED IT. Even though upon repeat viewings the rest of the movie has grown on me every time we get to that reveal I'm like "UGH"


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Lemmy wrote:

I'm sure it'll turn a profit at some point... Just not nearly as much as the studio expected/hoped. They don't put near a billion dollar investment in a production just to get a few extra thousands.

Hopefully this'll be a wake-up call for Warner and they'll learn someone competent to replace Snyder.

Oh I agree. It's DEFINITELY making a profit. Estimated budget at $250 million + probably marketing budget around $100 million? so youre looking at $350 million. They need to make twice that before they start making a profit? So right now the total global box office is somewhere around $742 million. They're probably going to wrap the theatrical run somewhere around $850 - $900 million.

So yeah, they'll be alright.


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137ben wrote:

It's actually surprisingly close to Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Part 2 sales-wise so far. BvS had the seventh biggest domestic opening weekend of all time (HP7 part 2 had the biggest at the time, now the sixth highest, just a head of BvS). HP7 Part 2 had the biggest drop on its second weekend of all time, while BvS had the fifth largest weekend-to-weekend drop. Actually, in domestic gross BvS did slightly better on its second weekend than Deathly Hallows part 2 (51 million domestically vs 47 million). Deathly Hallows' total domestic gross after two weekends was only a little ahead of where BvS was.

Deathly Hallows Part 2 ultimately did reach 1.34 billion dollars worldwide ($380 million domestically), but it took awhile to get there.

Keep in mind, though, HP7,P2 had stiff competition its second and third weekends: Captain America opened the weekend after HP, and knocked HP down to second place for that weekend. Its third weekend it got knocked down to fourth place. BvS didn't have to compete with any blockbusters its second weekend, and probably won't fall below second its third weekend.

(Also note: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2 received 96% positive reviews on RT, the highest in the HP franchise, while BvS has only 29% positive. Both got mostly good responses from audience members on RT (89% positive vs 70% positive).

Everything that you stated is absolutely true.

I'd also like to point out that HP 7 Pt2 was effectively the EIGHTH movie in an ongoing series. And a series which is arguably more popular than both the Batman and Superman franchises. So yes, it was entirely possible for HP 7 pt2 to limp across the finish line to a box office draw of over a billion dollars. I don't see that same thing happening for BvS.

By this time (the 3rd week of release) HP 7 PT 2 had grossed $330million dollars.
Right now BvS stands at $279 million. Could it make another $20 million by Monday? Dunno but you're still looking at HP 7 PT2 out grossing BvS by a pretty good margin.

At this point in both of their release cycles, IRON MAN 3 grossed more domestically ($311 Million) than BvS ($279 million) and IM 3 had competition where as you've stated BvS pretty much had NONE for two weekends straight.

BvS is by no means by ANY barometer a failure, but it's not what we'd call a smashing success.


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At this point it doesnt look like Batman v Superman is going to reach a billion dollars in box office. Very front loaded movie with very little staying power. I'm sure that word of mouth hindered it.
That being said, I think that it's recouped it's budget and definitely making a profit. Just not as huge as some were expecting.


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Molten Dragon wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Molten Dragon wrote:
I had forgotten about supergirl movie completely and had to look it up online. Wonder if I can still purchase it on laser disc?
You could just skip the middleman and throw your money in the garbage bin. XD
I know, right. I was just mainly seeing who remembered laser discs ;)

I actually STILL HAVE my last laserdisc player the Pioneer DVL-700. Along with a few choice laserdiscs that I kept for nostalgic reasons. I'm not even sure that it still works though...


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Hama wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:
I just want good stuff, but to me BATMAN v SUPERMAN looked like hot garbage served up in the guise of a seven course meal on a 90 degree day. And I LIKED MAN OF STEEL. In fact I'm liking it more and more upon repeat viewings. So for me to be repulsed by BvS? Especially after what I was told by people who saw it in early screenings?

I never put any stock in what people are saying. I check it out for myself. But i guess some people just don't want to spend the money needed for a movie ticket to see for themselves.

I put stock in the words of friends that I trust and have similar tastes. Yes. Not to mention that the trailers did NOTHING to make me want to see the movie to begin with.

As as for your comment about not wanting to spend the money needed for a movie ticket to see for myself? Three things:

I live in NY where a ticket in a decent theater ranges from $14.50 to $22

I go to the movies with my family or at least my 14 year old fairly regularly which means I spend for a family of 3 anywhere from $45 dollars to upwards of over $60.

Three: The week of release I got invited to TWO screenings of Batman v Superman here in the city. One screening conflicted with a existing responsibility. The other I could have went to but I just had no interest in possibly wasting 2 and a 1/2 hours on a movie that didn't excite me AT ALL. I would have been standing in line to get INTO the screening for at least 2 hours and it just wasn't worth it to me.

And yes I might have gone opening weekend if word of mouth from people I trust said that it was worth it and a good movie. Even my friend Rich, who is a HUGE DC fan came away kind of lukewarm. He enjoyed and cited it's flaws and it's strengths. It's just that the flaws (casual killer Batman, Lex Luthor, Martha and Cave Troll Doomsday) were enough to make me keep my money in my pocket and wait to catch it on cable.

So yes, FYI, for movies that I WANT to see and that I'm EXITED about? I'll take the time and or spend the money. If I get invited to a screening for CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR you can bet that i'll drop whatever I'm doing (if I can) to go.

Nice try though.


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Freehold DM wrote:
Hama wrote:
Ok this is not good. I assume there'll be some who'll be gloating.
yup, lots of gloating.

Considering all of the DC fans who were heralding the success of this movie as proof that the Marvel movies suck and are made for children while the DC movies are made for adults? It would be hard for people NOT to get their gloat on.

Me? I think this is a GOLDEN AGE. I love the fact that there are so many Super-hero movies to choose from and the fact that a super-hero movie isnt a genre but a vehicle to TELL different genres within the super-hero framework. Do I like the idea of Batman as a casual killer using the weapon that he probably despises the most to do so? NO. and because of that I don't have to give DC/Warner Brothers my money for that movie. And I didnt. But ask me if I'm looking forward to SUICIDE SQUAD after that last trailer? HELL YES.

I'm a Marvel guy. But I love good super-hero movies / TV. Love THE FLASH, Like ARROW. Love DAREDEVIL and JESSICA JONES. Like AGENTS OF SHIELD (it could be a better show though...) havent watched SUPERGIRL yet (will binge when it's done this season). LOVE YOUNG JUSTICE and JL and JLU. Not a fan at all of AVENGERS ASSEMBLE or ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN.

I just want good stuff, but to me BATMAN v SUPERMAN looked like hot garbage served up in the guise of a seven course meal on a 90 degree day. And I LIKED MAN OF STEEL. In fact I'm liking it more and more upon repeat viewings. So for me to be repulsed by BvS? Especially after what I was told by people who saw it in early screenings? Nah. I'll wait for cable. But I wont wish for it to FAIL. That's just dickbaggery.

In fact if it was some kind of critical AND commercial success? That would have been FANTASTIC. More competition would have been a good thing,

I've been watching the box office carefully and it's no failure by any barometer. Depending on the final tally though I'm not sure it's exactly a resounding success either.


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137ben wrote:
Hama wrote:
Ok this is not good. I assume there'll be some who'll be gloating.
It seems to have done better on Saturday, as it's cumulative drop this weekend is now only 68%, which is more within the normal range for second weekend blockbusters. Still not good, though.

.

Considering that it had no competition this weekend and had such a sharp drop? Just 52 million domestically this weekend? No that's not good at all. It'll definitely break even and more but considering the amount of money that went into marketing this movie? Yikes.


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Freehold DM wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

Oh. My. God.

This most recent episode was the most amazing thing I have seen on American television in years. Years.

That's funny because I thought that it was pretty mediocre.
what clay pot do you keep your soul in? It was amazing!

There was very little that was amazing about it from my point of view but I dont begrudge you your enjoyment of it. I dont watch it normally in real time but since it was an hourlong season finale I tuned in.

Star Wars Rebels Spoilers:
Aside from Kanan being seemingly perma-blinded?Which admittedly I dont think anyone saw that coming *RIM SHOT* We knew that Maul was going to pull a heel turn. He's MAUL. The three inquisitors getting wacked didnt matter to me one way or another. The only person I was worried for was Ashoka and her fate wasn't definitive. Same with Maul. No bodies? NOT DEAD. Long fall from great height? PROBABLY NOT DEAD. So all in all the episode was *IMMORTAN JOE* MEDIOCRE!! *IMMORTAN JOE* for me.


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Freehold DM wrote:

Oh. My. God.

This most recent episode was the most amazing thing I have seen on American television in years. Years.

That's funny because I thought that it was pretty mediocre.


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Freehold DM wrote:
That said, I hate all star because I hate Morrison.

Wow. I mean I get it. I'm an absolutist when it comes to certain creators. Frank Miller will never get another red cent of mine ever as will Joe Madueria (sp?) so I get it.

But Morrison is problematic because he's so wildly inconsistent.

We3 was something of his that I loved.
His X-men run? not so much.
His JLA (DC) and Marvel Boy (Marvel) I loved.
Final Crisis (DC) UGH. dont get me started.

but ALL-STAR SUPERMAN was probably one of the best things that he's done in YEARS. I have the large format deluxe edition of that book and it really highlights the art and comes across as bigger than life.


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Zach Synder on Jimmy Olsen


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Aberzombie wrote:

While I enjoyed the BvS movie, I tend to agree that DC needs to get its act together regarding films. Dark and Gritty does indeed work for Batman. Superman and Wonder Woman - not so much. Green Lantern tried to do too much at once and paid the price for it. The less said about Superman Returns the better.

I harken back to the days of Christopher Reeves Superman - the first movie was a big hit, each subsequent movie less so (owing, I think, first to the blow up with Richard Donner, then bad story lines and bad special effects). The tone of those movies was a bit brighter, though, and I think that was a good thing.

I was reading an article the other day about the future Aquaman movie (which will stupidly come out after the Justice League movie), where the director said they would try to inject more humor. That's a good move, and one I think Jason Momoa can pull off.

Honestly, by this point, I think Warner could do worse than putting someone like Bruce Timm or Greg Berlanti in charge of the DC Cinematic Universe and letting them go to town. Maybe get folks like Paul Dini or Mark Waid to help with scripts.

I'm not a fan of the Donner Superman movies but I'm a HUGE fan of Christopher Reeve's SUPERMAN and the tone of those first two movies, although at times they border on camp.

I think if they treat Aquaman like a Shakespearian drama / tragedy under the sea that tone / approach would be great. Everything doesnt have to be GRIMDARKDARKERDARKEST but Aquaman is a character who is never really taken seriously by the public. This movie is a good chance to change that perception.

Paul Dini and Bruce Timm would be great choices to take stewardship of the DC Cinematic Universe or whatever it's called. Much in the way that Kevin Feige is the steward of the MCU. I'd LOVE Mark Waid to be that guy but his relationship with DC isnt the best.


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Hrothdane wrote:

Superman when badly written (which is 97.548% percent of the time) is one-note. When written by someone who actually respects the character and provides good moral challenges while not dismissing him, Superman is damn interesting.

In that 97.548% of the time, he's one of my least favorite superheroes. In that golden percentage of times he's written well, he's in the running for my favorite.

Which is why I'm typically NOT a fan of Superman.

BUT.

SECRET IDENTITY by Kurt Busiek and Stuart Immonen

BIRTHRIGHT by Mark Waid and Lenil Yu

ALL-STAR SUPERMAN (for my money the BEST Superman story in YEARS) by Grant Morrison and Frank Quietly

A SUPERMAN FOR ALL SEASONS by Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale

SUPERMAN #423 - WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE MAN OF TOMORROW by Alan Moore and Curt Swan

are ALL excellent SUPERMAN stories about him, who he is and how he inspires and influences the people around him.

Superman is what's best in all of us. When he's written well he's why I read Superhero books in the first place. It's exceptional people doing the hard things. Which is often the right thing at great sacrifice. Because the real world is FILLED with selfish, myopic, evil people doing selfish, evil things ALL THE TIME.

That said I dont recognize that Superman that's on the screen in these movies. And the Batman even less so. Like I said, I'm glad people are enjoying this movie but this movie is obviously not for me. I like my Superman a little more heroic and my Batman a little less Punisher-y.


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WOW.

BIG drop between Friday and Monday

Lower than estimated gross (not by much though). Still this opening weekend is nothing to sneeze at but it needs to hit close to a billion for it to be an actual success considering the budget and the amount spent on marketing (if the rumors are correct).


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Marc Radle wrote:
All the luke-warm response is almost certainly going to cause a drop in weekend #2 ...

or not. I mean there'll definitely be a drop but by how much?

it will be telling if there's a 70%+ drop in week two because there's nothing really viable opening against it next weekend. So if it takes THAT big of a hit? That means word of mouth has hurt it.

We also have to take into account that there are no Thursday screenings this week so factor that in as well.


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$170 Million dollars domestically this weekend is the estimate. Have to wait until Monday for more solid numbers.

Not bad. Pretty good even but not spectacular.


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MMCJawa wrote:
Hama wrote:

If I wanted to know about a movie's artistic value, I'd ask a critic. If I wanted to know about a movie's fun value, I most certainly wouldn't ask a movie critic.

ShinHakkaider wrote:
Those reviews were in the 90's at first. Lets see what that Audience score is after two weeks in wide release. I think the more people see the movie the lower that audience score is going to get. And I honestly dont see that critic score getting above 60%.
Slippery slope fallacy

I tabulated Rotten tomato scores for the 2 big universes and DC movies, at least the more recent movies that have existed since Rotten Tomatoes.

Obviously the below data and my own commentary only reflect general opinions, and it's perfectly fine if you go see this and think its the best thing ever. I mostly offer this to those on the fence on seeing this movie or are otherwise concerned about the DCEU. Remember, if you don't like the direction these movies are going in, the only way you can show it is by not seeing it in theaters.

Here is the data for those interested:
** spoiler omitted **
Looking through those ratings, basically every single MCU movie has gotten a fresh rating. The lowest rating...

Thank you. I did a similar analysis and was about to post it before I realized any actual data that I posted would probably be dismissed by Hama as well. The movie hasnt even opened wide yet so stands to reason that two weeks out those Rotten Tomatoes ratings would be more solid (for good or for ill).

But whatever like I said I cant muster up the excitement for it and after hearing about it from someone who was at a screening last night here in NYC I think I'm right for avoiding it.


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Ralphie O'Reilly wrote:


So now I still play Pathfinder. I love Pathfinder. But I only invite people I feel comfortable playing with.

This is the key for me as well. I'm not a woman but as a person of color I've run into my share of issues with gamers where I now feel it's important to cultivate gamers who are of at least like mind and similar temperament. It doenst mean a "blacks only" group but at least a group made of decent human beings who are at least a little capable of functioning in social situations who are not sociopaths.


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Hama wrote:

Audience score is 85%, also audience is comprised of about 120.000 people.

Critics are idiots.

Those reviews were in the 90's at first. Lets see what that Audience score is after two weeks in wide release. I think the more people see the movie the lower that audience score is going to get. And I honestly dont see that critic score getting above 60%.

Doesnt mean that it wont make tons of money THIS weekend. But lets see how much it drops off by from the first to second weekend and then from the second to third. A movie like Deadpool was a great example of a movie having legs based on a combination of good word of mouth and pretty decent reviews.


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Freehold DM wrote:
I'm far more concerned with Affleck as batman. I don't think he can do it. At all.

That's funny because he's the ONLY person I have any interest in in that movie at all. I absolutely think that he'll be able to pull off an older, more bitter Batman as well as an aloof, vapid playboy.

I too have heard that he nails it. You know who else totally nails it according to early word? Jessie Eisenberg as Luthor.


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baron arem heshvaun wrote:

Saw it last night, with the director and cast. And funnyly with the cast of Gotham.

Ben Affleck had some fun with the child actor playing Bruce Wayne.

He went on stage and said, "I'm BATMAN."

"But you ... You will be BATMAN."

"Whoaa. BATMAN BRAIN FREEZE."

Over all the movie was an 8.5, but Gal Gadot gets 9.5 and can't wait to see more of her.

I'm glad that you thought it was great. I'm hoping that it's good. But oddly enough I cant get excited enough to actually buy tickets for it. I literally cant think of one reason to go see this movie. And I'm the guy that's usually there opening weekend or in a screening with bells on. I have my tickets of Captain America Civil War already and I'm REALLY excited for that but this? Not so Much. And I ENJOYED Man Of Steel...


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Muser wrote:

Great. Now we'll definitely get Second Darkness Redux one day.

Also, curse your crimson thrones, Paizo! My players are just about to exit book 4. I don't know if I can take this.

I feel your pain. My irregular group have been playing off on and on for FIVE YEARS now and theyre just near the end of book 5. Like two - three encounters away.

UGH.

I'll totally be buying it and the pocket sized Core Rulebook and Bestiary 1. My CBR is the 1st printing from when they first launched...


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I hope that the focus is on martial arts and really good fight choreography.

I mean story and character is king but the essence of the character is that he IS a martial artist with a mystical bent that manifests itself through FISTS OF IRON.

Anything less than that would be disappointing.


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Just rewatched the entire series on Netflix and now I'm going to purchase the BluRays and gift my DVD's to a friend.

Young Justice is a great, GREAT show that was ended waaaaaaaay too soon.

I hope people are watching and supporting this show on Netflix. I hope the rumors are true that if enough people are watching it they'll think about brining it back.

I'm not a DC Comics fan these days (since New 52 the only DC branded book I purchase on a regular basis is Kurt Busiek's ASTRO CITY) but at one time their animated shows were the pinnacle of what animated super hero shows could achieve. Batman the Animated Series, Superman, Batman Beyond, Justice League, Justice League Unlimited and now Young Justice are excellent TV.


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Once again I posted two responses to specific things in this thread and then remembered where I was and what crowd I was responding to and deleted them.

Sometimes it's like trying to talk empathy with a sociopath. I mean they have an idea of what genuine emotions and empathy is supposed to look like but ACTUALLY HAVING empathy? Not so much.


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Not safe for work because of language but kind of relevant because of the conversation about Danny Rand's casting.

Whitewashing in Hollywood

Not only incredibly accurate but as a fan of film I know it was just a SMALL sampling of how many times it was done. I re-watched William Wyler's BEN-HUR recently and noticed that the actor who plays sheik who befriends Judah later on in the film is actually a Welshman in "brownface".


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Set wrote:
Hama wrote:
I prefer non-fluid non acrobat fights. In other sense, Batman, not Nightwing.

I prefer a highly kinetic and dynamic style with lots of acrobatics, like Nightwing, Nightcrawler, Spider-Man, Timber Wolf, etc. (some versions of Captain America, Iron Fist, etc.) but also like some who just stand there and go all brutal and direct, like Luke Cage, Hulk, etc. (mostly because they don't *need* to dodge and flip around, being bulletproof or heavily armored).

I think it would get boring if everyone fought the same way. No matter how amazing any one fight scene may be (Daredevil's hallway fight, for instance, or the first 15 minutes of Winter Soldier, on the ship), I don't really want to see Thor or Aquaman copying those fighting styles.

I agree with everything that you said for the most part.

For the record when I said fluid it doesn't necessarily mean acrobatic. I'm not sure where that came from. My favorite types of fight scenes aren't really the kinds like in Watchmen or this BvS trailer where it's one guy tearing through an army of guys. I can enjoy those sure but I like the fights between two fairly evenly matched opponents where it's like they're guesstimating their parries and counters several moves in advance. I like the fights where the fighters use guile and feints to set up strikes.

Good example of this is the first fight between Steve Rogers and the Winter Soldier there's a bit right after Steve retrieves his shield from the side of the van and WS still has his knife. WS goes to strike Steve with his knife which Steve blocks with his shield. Common tactical sense being protect from the knife right? But WS knows this and drops the knife to his other hand knowing that Steve is gong to move the shield to protect against that and so WS CLOCKS Steve with his free hand which used to have the knife.

Would it have knocked out Steve? Nope. But with two fairly evenly matched combatants it's about wearing down your opponent.

Is it entirely realistic? Nope but it does show that some one thought about the choreography enough beyond just having a guy just beating the crap out of guys.

But I DO like that for the first time it shows a Batman who can move and fight in the suit. That part IS exciting.


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137ben wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:
Hama wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:
Snip It's the same semi stilted choreography they used in Watchmen though. More snip

Nope. Ben Affleck is TALL.

Also, this fighting is far more brutal. Seems Snider likes Arkham games.

??? What does Ben Affleck's height have to do with anything?

Even more snip
I don't know enough about the other things you are commenting on. However, I'm guessing what Hama meant by referring to Ben Affleck's height is that he is not wearing stilts. You said the combat was "semi stilted" which (I think? I really have no idea otherwise) meant you thought one actor was wearing stilts while the other wasn't. Hama was saying that neither was wearing stilts, Ben Affleck is just really tall.

Ah. I meant stilted as in "stiff". My way of saying that the fights aren't very fluid. Not that they have to be its just not my favorite type of fight cheorography.


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Freehold DM wrote:
I don't view watchmen as brutal. Primarily because I've read it all before so many times it's yawn inducing.

I'm referencing the movie here as Zach Snyder directed both Watchmen and the upcoming Batman vs. Superman. I'm noting that the style of fight choreography in this most recent trailer is very similar to what he put together for what he did in Watchmen. Sorry, i thought that was fairly clear.


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Hama wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:

Still not excited by it.

At least now that my 14 year old is going to the movies with his friends I'm not going to be forced to see it.

On the plus side it finally looks like they got a Batman who looks like he can actually fight in the suit. It's the same semi stilted choreography they used in Watchmen though.

Nope. Ben Affleck is TALL.

Also, this fighting is far more brutal. Seems Snider likes Arkham games.

??? What does Ben Affleck's height have to do with anything?

And more brutal? Than what? The R rated Watchmen? Wherein Silk Specter and Owl man brutally and graphically cripple and kill several gang members in a alley? Or the fight that opens the film between the Comedian and his mysterious assailant/murderer?

I think our definitions of brutal are vastly different.

Watchmen (March 2009) also beats Arkham Asylum (August 2009) by a few months. If anything it's possible that the combat in the later games are inspired by the fights in Watchmen than the other way around.


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Still not excited by it.

At least now that my 14 year old is going to the movies with his friends I'm not going to be forced to see it.

On the plus side it finally looks like they got a Batman who looks like he can actually fight in the suit. It's the same semi stilted choreography they used in Watchmen though.


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I subscribe to the RPG line and up until recently was a AP subscriber.

I dont do Organized Play not since I was in an RPGA game in the late 80's early 90's and hated the quality of person that attended those few games I was at. Ever since then? Whether I'm running (which is most of the time) or playing? I screen.

I dont want to play a weekly game with strangers who have a completely different style and definition of gaming than I do. I'm not saying that their style is WRONG. I just dont want to play with people for who the game is a mechanical exercise mainly and gear their characters accordingly. If that's your main thrust? We cant hang.

I have a player like that in my group but he builds his PC's around a concept and wants them to be effective in that concept, sometimes too effective. The thing is? when he sees that and sees that it detracts from other peoples fun, including the GM? he tones down the character or makes arrangements to play something else.

So that's why with my particular group? At first when we started playing I limited everything to core. At the time that we started only the APG was out so that wasnt too bad. But as I watched and began to see how they played and saw that they werent abusive or jerks as far as char op went I pretty much opened up everything as long as I could look at the character first.

And I guess for me that's what it all comes down to. Bloat and power creep is an issue if youre playing with jerks and people who are going to really take advantage and dont care about other people's fun. If a bad situation turns up in game I'm lucky that I have a great group of PEOPLE who are going to talk about it like adults and figure something out that will be okay with everyone. I tend to err on the side of my players even at the expense of my own fun sometimes but even I have to say sometimes "WHOA...hold the FRAK up."

If you play with people who aren't selfish jerks?

You should be okay. No matter the system. No matter the books. No matter the creep.


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Freehold DM wrote:

I loved original thunderbolts.

I can't wait for this, as I did not care for the newer incarnations(although blizzard, speed demon and taskmaster were AWESOME).

Yea, everything up until the end of the Niceza run was great.

I tried staying after for the wrestling thing and really thought that it should have been it's own separate thing. Came back for the two miniseries with Niceza and the original team but stayed away from Ellis' run as I'm not a fan of Ellis when he works with established superhero characters.

Wayward by Jim Zub is pretty decent though. Not really a fan of the Pathfinder Comics. Skull Kickers is kinda fun though.

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