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Hooded Man

Serisan's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,501 posts. 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 5 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Pirate Rob wrote:
Nimrandir wrote:
feylund wrote:
even if they are not made availible again, i would like a refrence to them if only to acertain if a pc is using it legaly.
I'm in agreement here. Should I make the jump to the GM chair, and a player with a former Lantern Lodge character show up to a table I run, I could be told that Meridian Strike auto-kills one opponent a scenario without an official way to verify how stupid that is.
Sure there is, you ask the player to provide the source material for the material they are using, just like you should for any material you are unfamiliar with.

Technically, the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play is part of the core assumption, so the player isn't technically required to bring that resource. It's only the Additional Resources that require the resource to be produced.

So says the Guide, at least.

Smashing board.

heh...for all the PMs we've been trading, I hadn't seen this thread until tonight, Trei0.

As for the meat and potatoes, my reading is that the spirits utilize the Skald's BAB. I can't reconcile the idea that the ability would provide an asymmetric buff.

For sake of player friendliness in PFS, I defer to each player, who I require to declare at the start of their turn whether they accept the rage so I know whether I can target them with Saving Finale. The declaration also helps the GM keep track of things. Each player receives one of these condition cards at the beginning of the session as a reference. I made them in Open Office and pass them out while going over the rules for Inspired Rage. Every table gets the explanation before we begin play. Since they're declaring at the start of their turn, they're more likely to remember to use the slam, as well.

StrangePackage wrote:
Don't you feel sorry for any commoner in a tavern with the average pompous, violent clowns in any given "adventuring" group?

Truly, murderhobos come in all shapes and sizes. None of them end well for commoners.

Lemmy wrote:
I'm not sure why this archetype didn't get some sort of holy bonus to AC... Is the idea here to die at 1st level because your AC isn't higher than 14?

It's blatantly missing an ability, which the original author stated was cut to add explanatory text to the other abilities that were needed for clarity.

That's why we have a wasted page with a dwarf instead of a functional archetype.

Ravingdork wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
One of these days I'm going to use an antipaladin lich as the BBEG of a campaign, just to see how long it takes them to figure out why that 'death knight' keeps coming back. :)
A fun idea that I've myself considered in the past, but wouldn't it be foiled by something as simple as a successful Knowledge: Religion skill check?

Could happen, but the DC would be a minimum of 15+CR. Depending on the party, that could be a pretty difficult check. Technically, 15+CR is for rare monsters (like the Tarrasque), so you could reasonably bump it up for a unique foe.

At lower levels, the Run feat is sufficient for many baddies to get away. Yes, I actually suggested the Run feat. Other movement enhancers (Boots of Springing and Striding, Scroll of Longstrider, etc.) are a huge boon, as well.

Strategically place your baddies and set up reasonable ambushes. Survivor baddies can use Alarm to alert themselves to interlopers so they can prepare the ambush. Have an exit plan. Utilize terrain to your advantage. Ranged baddies are more likely to survive than melee.

ITEMS! Caltrops, Marbles, Shard Gel, Sneezing Powder, Foaming Powder, Tanglefoot Bag, Smokestick, or Smoke bomb can all assist with the ambush and retreat.

SPELLS! You would be absolutely amazed how much Silent Image and screw with a party. Fake walls, especially. Obscuring Mist and co. are also solid. Deeper Darkness, Create Pit, Entangle, etc. There are a TON of low-level spells to mess with players and assist with escapes.

Mid-level: Dimension Door or Teleport, especially with Contingency. Confusion, Wall of (whatever), Fly, Gaseous Form, Spike Stones, Tree Stride, Word of Recall, Symbol of (whatever), Greater Command, Hallucinatory Terrain, etc. There's a TON of spells to use to assist with the initial escape. Nondetection and other anti-scry options will assist with staying gone.

Have some minions. Even fodder can slow opponents enough to get away.

By CR 3, you'll find that individual players won't be 1-shotting things with consistency. CR 4+ monsters have enough hitpoints to reasonably last a round.

If you think STR builds are too good when it comes to damage, wait until you see a mid-level archer fighter, monk, or ranger. I'll discount the casters entirely, but they're present, as well. Shocking Grasp Magus is terrifying against monsters that aren't resistant/immune to Electricity.

It depends on the level to which you don't want to describe the class. From an OOC perspective, it's not unreasonable to say what class combo you are. IC, you can just as easily describe the appearance of the character. If they can't pick it up IC from there, it's typically not your fault.

Obviously, the GM will need to actually know what class your character is.

Crystal Frasier wrote:
This post honestly has me fairly angry. This random anonymous jerk is trying to use me as a handpuppet to undermine my own efforts at inclusion.

They're just jealous that you're super great.

Ravingdork wrote:
My groups tend not to use house rules or much homebrew, so we're gonna' be okay. *blows rasberry* :P

It was also a go-to reference for variant character sheets, like the Abellius one I'm so fond of using.

A feat is a different source than a class feature. It probably should be clarified in a FAQ, but I can't imagine any PFS judge ruling otherwise.

I'm definitely with you on the editing problems of ACG. Good flavor, lackluster writing/editing when it comes to clarity. At least it's not as bad as the Mastermind archetype typo with Inspiration being free on all skill checks. :-)

Currently playing a PFS Skald, 6 sessions under his belt. From a PM I sent earlier this week on the board...


My build is fairly simple. I've distributed my stat points to get a blanket of skills. At level 3, I have 16 skills with at least 1 rank. While I lose to a Bard here, it's been sufficient. My stats, in order, are 14, 12, 14, 13, 10, 16. I've taken Defiant/Inexplicable/Bestow Luck (human racial feats from ARG) to accommodate difficult skill checks. Level 5 will bring the incredibly powerful Battlecry (ACG 141), assuming it's not nerfed.

Item-wise, I treat myself slightly more melee-ish than the average bard. I maintain a full golf bag of weapons with different materials, MW Breastplate +1, Buckler, etc. I recently added a MW Thieves' Toolkit to the roster as I've found myself consistently being the closest thing to a trap-spotter in most parties. This puts me in a very versatile place for most groups as I have melee, ranged, skills, and arcane casting all reasonably covered.

For spells, I started with Ear-Piercing Scream and Saving Finale. One important note with Saving Finale is that you cannot target someone who did not accept the song, but you can bypass that at level 3 by starting the Marching Song instead of the Rage Song if the situation demands it. I've focused on utility for level 1 spells, adding Alarm (surprisingly useful in PFS) and temporarily getting CLW because I don't have Spring-Loaded Wrist Sheaths.

Following the advice of the thread, I ended up deciding on Spirit Totem, Lesser as my Rage Power to pass along. The bonus here is that it also allows an extra attack from summons and it uses my CHA mod instead of the recipient's. At level 3, it's a Slam +5, 1d4+3 Negative energy damage attack, regardless of the recipient's action, against an adjacent, living foe. If you party with casters or companion-based characters, this becomes particularly powerful. I'm up in the air as far as the progression of Rage Powers as I would very much like to get Celestial Blood, Lesser (ACG pg 80) at 6, but it competes with Spirit Totem.

Shroudb's post doesn't cover the very, VERY important point that only Rage Powers gained through the class feature are shared. Extra Rage Power does not share at all, so anything you get through there is exclusively for you. Bear that in mind as you pick feats.

I've built for passable melee. Not good, not great. Just good enough. I'm also not specifically optimizing for a single role. The character is really good at filling a lot of party holes. Only 3 skills have more than 1 rank in them: Linguistics, Perception, and Perform: Sing.

From a support standpoint, I cannot say this enough: GET BATTLECRY. It allows a reroll for each party member with each use. It's a swift action. You're going to have the CHA to support it. Unless it gets errata'd, it is the absolute best 5th level feat out there for a support-based character.

Should be able to Shatter any weapons carried, even integrated weapons from the Robot subtype.

You can also utilize Dirty Trick and other controlling effects. While you can't Blindness/Deafness a construct, but you can certainly put a sack on the construct's head so it can't see.

Lastly, Aid Another actions are amazing.

The one concern I have is the last line from Channel:

CRB wrote:
A cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability.

I've been rollin' along with my Fated Champion Skald, which has been well received. Mind you, this is despite being set at caster-heavy tables. The last game I played had only 2 allies interested in receiving my Inspired Rage out of 5.

James McTeague wrote:
Serisan wrote:

I just played Trial By Machine today.

** spoiler omitted **

The besides the final encounter, I thought it was pretty fun, though I was extremely disappointed by the lack of Ion Gloves on the chronicle.

** spoiler omitted **

My character did not see anyone get fascinated before approaching, failed the save while approaching, and was neither in a position to be attacked or to be shaken by an ally. If, while fascinated, you can still look away, that's was a misplay by the table, but we were also given a saving throw each turn we were fascinated, which may or may not be correct, either. My dice hated me on these saves (there was dice shaming involved and 4 consecutive 6s rolled on multiple dice). In any case, we did succeed at the encounter without any deaths, but a DC 16 save in a 30' radius without any action from the monster is ridiculous for level 1-2.

I just played Trial By Machine today.

Unless it's written out of the 1-2 version, the GM may have forgotten the hardness on the final encounter. Most of the players did not have the opportunity to look away from the gaze, which has a stupidly high DC for level 1-2 characters. My character, for instance, was completely locked out of the combat by the gaze. I quite literally never acted beyond moving within 30 feet.

The besides the final encounter, I thought it was pretty fun, though I was extremely disappointed by the lack of Ion Gloves on the chronicle.

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Feral Hunter is the ultimate 1 level dip.

Ravingdork wrote:
Under A Bleeding Sun wrote:
It has a nearly unlimited supply of exploits by mid level and just seems to me after much number crunching as a terribly designed class from any kind of balance stand point.
I'm seeing this said a lot, but rarely is it backed up. Therefore, I shall be following this thread very closely in the hopes that somebody provides some supporting evidence.

There's two major points to this claim:

1. You can eat spell slots for {spell level) Arcane Reservoir points.
2. With a specific Exploit (Consume Magic Item), you can drain unwanted scrolls, potions, 5 charges from wands (1/2 spell level), or a charge from a staff (1:1 based on highest level 1 charge spell).

Assuming no other increases, a level 6 Arcanist has a maximum reservoir of 9 and 6 points to start. If they have an Int of 16+, they have 3 level 3 slots, 5 level 2 slots, and 5 level 1 slots. Since pretty much all staves are beyond the standard level 6 starting gold, we'll assume they don't have one, but that they do have a level 2 wand of some sort (4500 of 16000 on starting gold).

The wand is potentially worth 10 points, but we'll assume that the player wants to be conservative about it (after all, each Consume is 450g!) and won't do more than 2 Consumes/day, which is a last resort.

If we assume 8 combats in a day (a challenging dungeon crawl day, perhaps), the Arcanist can reasonably utilize 1 non-cantrip spell and 1 reservoir point per combat without tapping the wand by eating a level 2 spell slot.

Seems reasonably close to infinite to me. Most adventuring days I see in PFS are closer to 4-5 combats, where you can literally double the usage numbers I put together.

Fearspect wrote:

Novack: I don't see why an Exploiter Wizard couldn't get the Extra Arcanist Exploit feat. Could you explain that?

I can jump on that one. Extra Arcanist's Exploit requires the Arcanist's Exploit class feature as a prerequisite. Exploiters get Exploiter's Exploit instead.

Quite honestly, that's about the only thing that keeps the Exploiter from being flat-out perfect.

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Speaking to the point about the Ecclesitheurge, I would have preferred that they leave out the artwork in favor of presenting the complete archetype. The dwarf is super cool looking, but presenting an incomplete archetype is not an acceptable trade-off. The dwarf takes up 1/4 of the page. Cheapy, who authored the archetype, stated that the ability was cut to add reasonable explanatory text to other abilities, which is a great reason to make a change like that. That said, I'm sure that the BotF ability that was cut could fit within 1/4 of a page. If it was short, it could reasonably have been included by scaling the art down or, if too long for that, by adding fluff text in place of the artwork to ensure sufficient page fill.

xavier c wrote:

i was comparing to the wizard's spell list

I just want a cleric that can blast stuff.

And have more flavorful spells like a cleric's version of Mage's Magnificent Mansion that creates a planar temple.

Aasimar Cleric with the ARG channeling feats = Darth Vader.

Just let that sink in for a minute.

The best part is when they leave a turd in the toilet.

Another point towards yes: Enlarge Person gives a strength bonus that is atypical for the size change. It is specific to the spell, not the size itself.

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Mounted Combat section of CRB Combat chapter wrote:
You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.

Either the mount slows to half speed or the ogre is dismounted and the mount continues through the doorway. I would say that this is a choice that the ogre's controller has to make and there may be an associated Ride check.

Don't worry, BBT, I've been missing things left and right on this ability. It spans 2 pages and 3 columns, so we can use that as a defense.

I'm coming around to your logic, LessPopMoreFizz. I wish I had a dedicated summoner to play with to leverage the Spirit line better, but you can't win 'em all.

Chris O'Reilly wrote:
You might not find superstitious worth it without being able to pump it with favored class bonuses. It's bonus to will saves will only be 1 higher than the song itself and doesn't stack with heroism.

That is a fair point.

LessPopMoreFizz wrote:

Supporting argument:

Getting an additional 'free' attack per party member (and at level 9 *another one! per enemy engaged with a party member) is pretty bonkers, and 20% concealment against ranged attacks, reach weapons and large sized foes isn't exactly something to sneeze at.

Yes, it's ineffective against undead, but then, that's a consideration you'll have to make in the context of your campaign (in this case, PFS.). It's still very strong.

As for the Skald not being charisma focused - at high levels, you're going to want at least a 16 eventually, and at low levels, starting with the extra 2 points in Cha and using the level up points elsewhere if need be to start out with that extra round of raging song isn't exactly a bad move. In my mind, Spirit Totem is good enough to seal the deal and make Cha a clear prime stat for a Skald built around it. YMMV.

I suppose that makes sense. Could also be quite good with a summon or two laid down. I had always overlooked the ability. How is it getting a second attack at level 9? The Lesser feat specifies 1 attack.

With the power sharing restriction, I think I'd do the following instead:

Level 3: Superstition (shared), Antagonize
Level 5: Battle Cry
Level 6: Celestial Blood, Lesser (melee attacks are Good-aligned, add 1d6 against evil outsiders)
Level 7: Celestial Blood (acid and cold resist)
Level 9: Reckless Abandon (shared)
Level 11: Eater of Magic
Level 12: Celestial Blood, Greater (free rerolls!)

Obviously, some feats are missing. I'm just sleepy.

LessPopMoreFizz wrote:
What makes you think I'm trolling?

Because you had no supporting argument for the choice.

Doesn't help that I don't see the Skald as being excessively CHA focused and PFS has a high undead count.

I missed that line. That is very sad.

Back to ye ol' drawing board.

Sammy T wrote:

I was looking at superstition, beast totem, and first 2 (abyssal?) bloodline to make everyone enlarged pouncing mage killers by L10 (with a retrain of a burner feat at L10). Of course, the elemental fire or air bloodlines make strong case as the extra movement makes your pouncers faster or give them flight. Battle cry is nice to have in the mix.

The only issue I had was making my skald have decent contributions with his own DPS after trading away all my feats for rage powers

While I certainly don't want to be a party drag, I would like to think that providing boatloads of rerolls to the party is a pretty substantial benefit.

@Major_Blackhart - One of my restrictions here is that it's PFS, so I won't have a consistent group. Other than that, I follow your logic completely. My move towards rerolls is a consequence of that, along with the CG alignment that I decided on for the character. I had also been considering a more natural attack focused line-up, but it didn't seem to jive with the alignment and concept, so I junked it.

@LessPopMoreFizz - why you gotta troll me like that? :-p

I had to tell a kid at PFS this weekend that literally every interruption he made for 45 minutes of gameplay would be sufficient for me to declare his character wantonly evil if I were the GM.

The GM gave me a knowing look and nod.

Seriously, this kid was interrupting a diplomatic discussion with things like "I cut off her finger." He wanted to torture a helpless street thug out of frustration that he didn't get to kill anything during combat.

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
technarken wrote:
That's a relief, now I can color code my weapons for party convenience and aesthetic perfection! ( "The red katana matches my formal attire for the Chelish banquet, but the blue one goes really well with my armor when it all hits the fan.") Swashbucklers need to care about their stylishness in all things, especially since the red ones (may or may not) go faster (needs more Waaagh)
Not for an Aasimar - you'd need to be half-orc. After all, the only reason the red ones go faster is because the orks believe that red ones go faster.


I'm playing a Skald in PFS and looking at Rage Powers that I'd like my party to have. I'm torn on a few, though I fully expect to use every feat from level 3 on to take Extra Rage Power to fill out the song. Thoughts so far:

Level 3: Superstition, Witch Hunter
Level 5: Battle Cry (it's a feat, but allows for rerolls)
Level 6: Spell Sunder
Level 7: Celestial Blood, Lesser (melee attacks are Good-aligned, add 1d6 against evil outsiders)
Level 9: Celestial Blood (acid and cold resist)
Level 11: Celestial Blood, Greater (free rerolls!)
Level 12: Eater of Magic (more rerolls!)

Any thoughts on this? Any obvious omissions, replacements, or position swaps?

You missed a critical detail:

or something would prevent her from becoming fatigued or exhausted, she cannot use this ability.

That'd be the immunity to fatigue, right there.

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Skald looks excellent, with my only complaint being the mechanically almost irrelevant lack of Perform (Wind Instruments) in their Versatile Performance list. Where's the love for the warhorn?

And that's just about the easiest fix ever for home games. On top of being (as mentioned) almost meaningless in any mechanical sense.

I hadn't even seen that omission, but that's pretty critical given that there's a warhorn archetype for Skald.

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Acedio wrote:

Then all I have to say on that matter is that we have several posts in the topic enumerating a series of potential issues that the use of hex maps over squares could have that you have not addressed. I'll list the ones I've seen:

1. Makes it easier to surround a token as you have 6 adjacent tiles instead of 8.
2. Reduces flank angles.
3. Reduces the number of viable tiles melee combatants can take, and means you can only have up to 6 melee combatants adjacent to a token (reach not withstanding).
4. Changes the coverage of AOE effects (likely).
5. Unclear how to proceed with Charge lanes, as a straight line sometimes actually zig-zags depending on the angle. What constitutes an obstruction on your zig-zag charge lane?
6. Unclear how to handle buildings or structures with 90 degree angles, or even straight edge, as along certain angles the hex grid zig zags. If a wall of a building occurs on such a zig-zag line are you squeezing on it? Do you squeeze through a 5' hallway because you're in half of a hex tile?
7. Has side effects on distance calculations, which assume squares in the CRB.

While I am a proponent of hexes in general, I agree that they are not PFS legal. I do want to address some of the points you brought up, though:

1. Absolutely true. The trade-off is that you completely eliminate the 5-10-5 corner movement issue and it's abundantly clear when something is flanking (corner to corner sometimes confuses new players in my experience).

2. Again, true, but players are able to discern intuitive flanking rules on hexes than squares. Ex. in the below diagram, many new players think this qualifies as flanking when using squares, but A and B are not flanking X here:


3. From a direct simulation standpoint (which is what the grid/hex system is all about), this is probably more reasonable anyway.

4. It does change AoE effects. Lines are unaffected. Bursts are significantly easier to target because the map is more circle-like. Cones narrow from 90 degrees to 60 degrees typically, which means that their range will also equal their width at the end of the cast. A 10' Cone will still have 3 hexes affected, but it won't look like a staircase. It will look like a cone. A 30' Cone in squares has either 25 or 28 affected squares, depending on the angle and start point, but it will ALWAYS have 21 affected hexes because you don't select vertices for spell origin.

5. There is no practical difference here. This already happens on squares, actually, and there are myriad minutiae to go along with it. There are more, not fewer, paths that are clearly demarcated in hexes. Lastly, the option of last resort is the same: draw a straight line or hold a string from point-to-point and determine what squares/hexes are majority-affected. Those are the charge lane.

6. The same way that they're handled in a grid. Keep in mind that many maps on grids are drawn at 45 degree angles already if they have a contiguous, winding room. If a square or hex is at least half open, you can squeeze into it, with normal squeeze penalties. If the square or hex is not half open, you cannot stand there. You draw the lines as you want them, not as the squares or hexes dictate.

7. Yes, distance calculations are based on squares currently. However, by eliminating the 5-10-5 problem, you eliminate a number of other problems, like corner-approach reach squircles with "imaginary squares." If they have a matched edge, they connect. That's 5'. If they don't have a matched edge, they are, de facto, separated by at least 1 hex. You just count until you get a path, same as before.

Again, I do not have any reason to believe that hex maps are PFS legal and disagree with the OP on this point. I think that the case against hexes really boils down to tradition and, quite frankly, unexamined tradition is the worst reason to do something.

I ran a fresh, level 1 Skald for a PFS session last night. It ended up being the most fun I've ever had at a PFS event. Even though half the table didn't want the Inspired Rage buff, I continuously felt I had options and I only had to roll to attack once in the entire session because we were able to bypass combat on a number of occasions.

I never had buy-in on the Bard before. I knew it was good, but I just wasn't interested. The Skald is an incredibly interesting flavor, though. On top of that, the rest of the players where pretty stoked when I handed out a hand-written condition card for the rage buff and told them how it worked.

Anyone else playing Skald or other ACG classes yet? If so, what has your experience been?

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I'mma be honest: I want the other 5 books of the adventure path. :-)

Bers, why did you purposefully break the spoiler box?

I'm enjoying the critical typo in the Mastermind's Inspiration.

ACG pg 101 wrote:
Mastermind's Inspiration (Ex): A mastermind can use inspiration on any Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge, or skill checks without spending a use of inspiration. This ability alters inspiration.


Naturally, there it is. Thanks!

Are all bloodline abilities supposed to be restricted to when you are bloodraging, unless otherwise specified? There is inconsistent usage of phrasing in abilities and conflicts between fluff and crunch text.


Page 19, ACG - Celestial fluff text wrote:
By way of a celestial ancestor or divine intervention, the blood of angels fills your body with a holy potency, granting you a majestic visage and angelic powers when you enter your bloodrage.
Page 19, ACG - Wings of Heaven (Su) wrote:
At 12th level, you can choose to sprout feathery wings...
Page 20, ACG - Dragon Wings (Su) wrote:
At 12th level, when entering a bloodrage, you can choose to have leathery wings grow...

The fluff text clearly states that it's while bloodraging, but fluff text is not actual rule text. The Wings of Heaven ability doesn't specify, but the Dragon Wings ability clearly states bloodrage as a requirement. For example, the Draconic bloodline does not have fluff text about "while bloodraging," nor does the level 1 Claws power, but Dragon Wings does.

This is, of course, not the only pair of bloodlines with the inconsistency, nor do the Bloodline and Bloodrage class features specify.

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Here's the single most important part of playing a caster: Perram's Spellbook.

Playing a prepared caster? Print all the cards for spells you've learned, then pick enough of them each day to fill your slots as necessary. If you plan to use the same spell more than once per day, print 2 of that spell.

Playing a spontaneous caster? Just print off your spells known and keep a tally of spell slots used per day.

Your bookkeeping has just decreased by about 80%. I will put in a plug for Perram's Spellbook any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Play what you want and worry less.

Regarding Mystic Theurge, your dump stats are everything you don't need as a casting stat, pretty much. Because of the faster spell progression, you're going to want to be Cleric or Druid + Wizard or Witch. Unfortunately, that means 2 casting stats, both of which need to be respectably high. If you're new to casters, this is the one thing I would recommend against playing because the spell lists are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE and it gets intimidating fast, particularly with the Divine lists being always known on Cleric/Druid.

ETV on this sentence from the email for PFS players:

JB wrote:
and you'll need to incorporate any changes established by the design team or campaign staff during the playtest as well as once the final versions of the class are released in August 2014.

I can see judges saying the following or similar:

"Do you have print offs of all of the updates? I seem to recall (feature X) being adjusted recently. If not, you will not be able to play your playtest character at this table."

Frankly, I wouldn't blame them. It's truly a mixed blessing to have PFS open for playtest material.

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Sara Marie wrote:

robot chris: the bear was probably on it's way to fred meyer or something

sara marie: gary just made terrible jokes about how I spotted bear next to the bear creek school

crystal: Gary makes a lot of bad jokes. Just *slides on shades* bear with him


Tarantula wrote:
Serisan wrote:

Solution: The door is really just a mechanism for causing some other opening or scene change to occur. Example: Putting the key in the "door" causes a spiral staircase going down to open from a previously flat floor elsewhere in the room. Breaking the door does nothing to allow passage anywhere.

Alternative solution: The real door is a secret one behind a bookcase.

So if they cast knock.... what happens?
Knock wrote:


School transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 2

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V

Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)

Target one door, box, or chest with an area of up to 10 sq. ft./level

Duration instantaneous; see text

Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

Knock opens stuck, barred, or locked doors, as well as those subject to hold portal or arcane lock. When you complete the casting of this spell, make a caster level check against the DC of the lock with a +10 bonus. If successful, knock opens up to two means of closure. This spell opens secret doors, as well as locked or trick-opening boxes or chests. It also loosens welds, shackles, or chains (provided they serve to hold something shut). If used to open an arcane locked door, the spell does not remove the arcane lock but simply suspends its functioning for 10 minutes. In all other cases, the door does not relock itself or become stuck again on its own. Knock does not raise barred gates or similar impediments (such as a portcullis), nor does it affect ropes, vines, and the like. The effect is limited by the area. Each casting can undo as many as two means of preventing access.

Looks like a whole lot of nothin', Tarantula. The mechanism looks like a door, but it isn't. Depending on the design of the stairwell idea, it might simply be too large for the spell to work.

Solution: The door is really just a mechanism for causing some other opening or scene change to occur. Example: Putting the key in the "door" causes a spiral staircase going down to open from a previously flat floor elsewhere in the room. Breaking the door does nothing to allow passage anywhere.

Alternative solution: The real door is a secret one behind a bookcase.

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