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Hooded Man

Serisan's page

FullStarFullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 2,992 posts (3,008 including aliases). 4 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 18 Pathfinder Society characters.


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What I'm hearing here is that we need Scan-Tron reporting sheets for conventions.

Every barbarian is a tired build for either 1 minute or twice the duration of their Rage until they get immunity to the Fatigued condition.

When I ran Emerald Spire in PFS, one of the players had a Cardcaster Magus using chakrams with a Blinkback Belt. He had few issues with low stats, though he started preparing a few Cat's Graces toward later levels. That said, with the 15 minute workday of Emerald Spire for each floor, his resources weren't tried as hard as other casters could be.

Imbicatus has the right of things here, though. I've never been able to put together a build that I liked for thrown that got "online" sooner than 6 or 7. In PFS, that's half a career.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:

Some schools will let individual students reserve space without being part of an organization but that won't get you in the formal club listing where others might see.

There's the rather large issue of bringing weird people in from off campus to use the facilities, which is probably against the university policy.

we did this a time or two at our local college but 1) we had a professor in the group and 2) I'm not sure we weren't just a psychology experiment..

If you're holding an activity at college/university, you have to restrict your audience to the student population, unless you're using a specified public venue. Most classrooms are not. Most areas at a school are not open to general public access.

This could also vary by college/uni. Back when I ran the Juggling Assembly, we had the largest indoor open space that wasn't the sports complex on Monday nights and people came from ~60 miles away to hang out each week.

What exactly is your friend making to counter this character of yours, anyway? Any idea at all?

Even starting at zero buffs, you can buy yourself quite a bit of time with Mind Blank + Quickened Invisibility and moving. Usually enough time to buff up before they can actually pinpoint your location given that they generally only get to know if you're within standard movement distance of your prior location each turn. Turn 2 for you is then Overland Flight and Quickened Dimension Door.

From that vantage, you can usually buff in peace, come in, and take them out in a lopsided fight. You shouldn't need to do Plane Shift shenanigans back and forth from a demiplane to win.


Kevin Willis wrote:
Serisan wrote:
Leathert wrote:
These gaming days are run at a space that the local university organizations can use for free, and we have a deal with them.

This really stuck out to me and I'm curious to learn more.

  • How did you get this deal with the university?
  • Was it a difficult process?
  • Does the university provide any support (advertisement, etc.) outside of allowing you to use the space?
  • Does this impact your area's membership in any particular way?

This seems like it could be a really cool opportunity to utilize in other areas.

Serisan, I don't know where you are based but in the USA, there's really only one thing you need to get this going: the help of a student who attends the school.

Almost all public and most private colleges will let students form a club. Sometimes they require a faculty advisor but it's really easy to find one if the only commitment is "sign here." Once you have a club you can reserve rooms in whatever common space the university has (and it turns out very few clubs want space on Saturday mornings/afternoons). After that it depends on the individual school. They rarely provide direct support (advertising) but do provide places for students to advertise. Bulletin boards, online, and occasional activities fairs.

I do suggest you form a "gaming" club rather than a "PFS" club. Not only is it an easier sell but you can get a fair amount of cross-pollination from people who normally show up to play board or card games but want to try something else.

I'm part of the MN crew, so it's not particularly applicable to me, but I also ran a club back in college (a full decade ago now, sheesh...) and recall having some more work than that as a student - petitioning the student government for things, etc. Could vary by school.

If you want to use a stock lich in the fight, you could look to Emerald Spire for inspiration.

Emerald Spire details:
Floor 14 of the spire involves a lich that had previously been an Azlanti noble focusing on creating constructs. He has a set of mirrors around the room that can summon a number of constructs, which walk out from the mirrors and begin attacking the PCs. The mirrors can be destroyed, but a Symbol spell is behind each one and they trigger as soon as the mirror in front is destroyed. Lastly, he's standing within a circular barrier that acts as a Wall of Force, which he can dismiss as a standard action.

Beyond that, he's a stock Bestiary 1 lich.


Leathert wrote:
These gaming days are run at a space that the local university organizations can use for free, and we have a deal with them.

This really stuck out to me and I'm curious to learn more.

  • How did you get this deal with the university?
  • Was it a difficult process?
  • Does the university provide any support (advertisement, etc.) outside of allowing you to use the space?
  • Does this impact your area's membership in any particular way?

This seems like it could be a really cool opportunity to utilize in other areas.


My issue with the change on the pregen ruling is that my baseline assumption with the credit goes from "this will go onto an existing character, or if it dies I reassign it" to "I must assume from moment one that this chronicle is a dead character." Thus, when I go to SkalCon next month, both Serpent's Ire and Maelstrom Rift will be going on fresh character numbers individually, likely as 500gp/1xp/2pp first level chronicles.

I'm looking forward to both scenarios, but I'm concerned that I'll feel the same way as Paul did for Serpent's Ire.


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I've found a lot of respect for the Master of Swords lately. His leadership in the All for Immortality arc is refreshing. A couple things I really like about his portrayal there:

  • He treats the PCs as trustworthy and capable, acknowledging that Seekers are well-tested by this point in their career.
  • Some of his lines are basically inside jokes that he's willing to share with only Seekers.
  • He talks about missions he's already sent other teams to do that provide context for the Seekers and show that he's a capable leader that follows up on leads.


MisterSlanky wrote: much as I'd love to say, "we should tell everybody else how to grow our area because we know how to do it", you need to know - our area is about as much of an outlier as they get, and it's been that way since day one. Yes there were some things we did to make it happen, but basically, we just live in an area with the player base to make it happen organically.

I will attest to this wholeheartedly. As I mention from time to time, my wife played under Arneson and we've been friends with the original players under Arneson for some time. I played tabletop games (mostly railroad games) with the guy who played the first wizard/magic-user in D&D.

The Minnesota lodge has a lot of history to build off of and I don't think the success that Monsieur Slanky mentioned could be replicated elsewhere.

Here's my tripmonster character.

I would consider going for the 4th level aberrant bloodrager ability, which extends your natural reach while raging. Yes, you only have 3 levels to go right now, but the 4th will put you in a pretty solid position. I use the bloodrage reach + enlarge person potions + Improved Unarmed Strike to threaten from adjacent to 30'.


tl;dr: Don't run hard mode at a store. You will likely run out of time.

So I finally got to run the scenario tonight. Subtier 14-15, hard mode.

Official start: 6:30pm
Actual start: ~7pm
Leave the Mausoleum: 9:30pm
Traversing: 10pm-ish
Mr. Khayn killed: 12am
Start the Suliji fight (much deliberation) 12:35am
Store closed and Suliji escapes: 1am

Party make-up:
Paladin/Holy Vindicator
Evoker Wizard
Mystic Theurge
Cavalier/Battle Herald
Rogue of 1 million non-lethal damage sneak attacks

At each stage of the scenario, there was a surprising amount of deliberation. This was particularly true with Alexayn - some memebers of the party were totally ok with leaving him alone and then things suddenly turned around after ~30 minutes and they decided to attack. Mr. Khayn was very reasonable with them, but firm, so they decided to attack after about 10 minutes. Suliji chatted with them for ~20 minutes, as well.

Time soaks:

  • Condition removal
  • Deliberation (which was really good, but took a LOT of time)
  • Some table talk
  • The only person with Ghost Bane was the rogue.

Alexayn fight notes:
11 combatant fight. Alexayn was not the problem - he was bullied quite effectively by the party and his nat 20 parry attempt was defeated by the nat 20 charging cavalier, who beat his attempt by 3 (49 vs 52) and skewered him. The spirits simply took a long time to kill and didn't do a whole lot but drain resources. I did manage to knock the inquisitor unconscious with a final poison DC of 30 due to multiple hits. I was glad that I double checked how Sneak Attack + ghost touch worked vs incorporeal so that we could get past the terrible situation that this could have been. After combat, the mystic theurge uses Planar Ally and ends up with a Leonal Agathion (caller's feather to boost up the cap).

The players had devised a generally useful care package of consumables and each contributed gold to fund them. The inquisitor's player was very upset about the shadowbound corruption on Janira, though acknowledged that it was a danger of the prior mission. The players opted to go through the shipping entrance, increasing the Traversing stage to 4 obstacles. Full successes, 2 of which were resounding.

Mr. Khayn:
There was a lot of creative walling in this encounter - one to break line of effect from a nemhain vs the inquisitor, one from a Pasha to keep the rogue away from Mr. Khayn, one to keep Mr. Khayn away from the inquisitor...we had some strange geometry in here.

Mr. Khayn did lose out on a charge due to the Leonal getting a grapple off mid-charge. It was a sad day for him in that regard. He was then nearly killed, wished back up, and he sundered a TON of the inquisitor's stuff while prone. He was eventually taken out by Icy Prison, which I didn't feel that bad about given how much trouble he had already caused. Limited Wish was blown to repair the inquisitor's sword. One of the Pashas was killed by the paladin's vorpal sword. We continued to mock the purchase of said sword after the fact as he had sold off a bunch of gear to get it.

This fight didn't really get off the ground. The MT got a spell bounced back at him, but he was immune to the effect. Suliji uses Greater Invis and flys out of his Echolocation area. A good number of the party have See Invisibility active and get very frustrated that it's not working (though this gets explained and they get it during the chronicle fill-out period). Corrupted Avenger fails to dispel with a terrible roll, golems start goleming at a light pace, and Suliji disintegrate-kills the inquisitor. The rogue sees the beam, does stupid rogue tricks, and intimidates Suliji for longer than reasonable.

We get midway into round 2 and have to pack up. Given positioning and the situation, Suliji simply escapes (she could have killed the wizard, too, but it was time to go).

I misplayed some things in the players' favor throughout the scenario. Still, combats were challenging and the players had some tough decisions to make tactically. I enjoyed running it, but I really wish I had the time to do the Suliji fight properly.


So, here's a silly: what happens if the PCs decide that they want to kill both Suliji and the Patrons? i.e. they get the Patrons' locations from Suliji by bluffing her, then kill her. It's not likely at my table, but it seems like it could happen and I don't see a development section preventing it.

Davor Firetusk wrote:
Having seen Mickey in action on multiple occasions, Persistent metamagic rods are greatly underpriced for the majority of situations having to make a save twice is harsher on your chances of surviving then a much larger increase in the save DC. I wouldn't say that it is broken, but with some of the nastiness of high level spells things can get shutdown real fast.

Mickey doesn't even have one of those rods. >.>

Chess Pwn wrote:

the anti SoS is that saves go up pretty quickly, and save DC's are hard to raise.

So you have a SoS that wins you the fight 60% of the time but 40% you wasted your turn and a spell slot, or haste which lets your martials do better.
Then later you have the SoS that wins 45% of the time but 55% you wasted your turn and a spell slot, or haste which lets your awesome martials do better.
Many view buffing(ex. haste) as the better option because it's for sure having a good effect on the fight. While the SoS is more immediate effects but riskier.

The anti-SoS mantra has a hard time surviving Persistent Spell and/or Ill Omen. The other thing is to have a variety of available options. Some of those options can and should be things that aren't dependent on saves for the exact reasons you gave. In my psychic's list, Wall of Force fills that particular slot nicely - I frequently ready actions to interrupt hostile actions against the party or use it to zone out enemies in larger combats.

Take a look at Mystic Mickey, my Save or Suck Psychic.

Aelreth points out a lot of standard spells. A couple standouts from Mickey's spell list:

1st: Ill Omen - I quicken this for an extra save on whatever I'm about to cast.

2nd: Mental Block - Dragons forget how to fly, breath weapon, burrow, cast...basically just their full attack routine all of the sudden. DIVINATION

Oneiric Horror - an alternate of Hold Person - ignores targeting requirements, ignores immunity to paralysis, but is ineffective against true seeing. ILLUSION

3rd: Synesthesia - good low level debuff, but doesn't scale up well.

4th: Confusion - this can win fights on its own with "attack-locking" between multiple confused targets.

Wall of Blindness/Deafness - Good for zoning out opponents and moves you to an alternate save. NECROMANCY

5th: Feeblemind - drooling Wizards. Because I'm a psychic, I use this with Will of the Dead to deal massive damage to undead, who use their CHA mod for HP.

Mirage Arcana - "Anyone who failed their save now believes they're in an ocean." Things start attempting swim checks.

6th: Mass Mydriatic Spontaneity - Will save or Nauseated for rounds/level in the Haste template. EVOCATION [light, darkness] (!!!!!) - even the single target version is good, and that's 3rd level for psychics.

Greater Object Possession - That golem that is typically immune to magic? It's not immune to this. I typically just stand there and tell the party to attack while I possess it for a minimum of 2 hours. Requires Spellcraft ranks, which you should have anyway. NECROMANCY

7th: Waves of Ecstasy - Save or Stunned. You drop what you're holding when you're stunned.

re: emotion effect planning, my psychic uses Logical Spell + Remove Fear and Intellect Fortress I as primary removal options. If it's full party, I also have Joyful Rapture, but that's level 12+.


I've considered making a Medium just to try it out and see. I have a character with 1 level of Medium, but it's a Relic Channeler and he's always going Champion so he can shoot his bow better.


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I understand what you're looking to do, James, but it doesn't really fix problems. It drives players out. It also doesn't address other crippling factors, such as SoDs with impossibly-high DCs. I've seen a dedicated color spray character shooting off DC 20 or so with a Mesmerist stare on top for the main target as a level 3 character (sorc 1/mes 1/oracle 1). Then there's ye olde black tentacles, etc. Then there's grapple shenanigans (tiny fox grapples large efreeti with +27 CMB at level 9 for one table I ran) since grapple is not size-restricted.

There's no limitations you can put out there that (a) address the problem fully and (b) don't offend players significantly.


I seem to recall helping unload cars without a jacket on this year.


My impression is either that the pashas wouldn't use their wishes as a reaction to Mr. Khayn's situation or that they wouldn't use them at all without the Hard Mode adjustment.

Speaking of Mr. Khayn, for the purposes of his Martial Flexibility, is he restricted to legal feats as indicated in the Additional Resources?

That's pretty much dead on for PFS, I think. Note that if you want to stay that slow, you'll need to not hit an effective oracle level of 10, which would remove the penalty from your armor. Also remember that half your non-oracle levels increase your curse effective level.


andreww wrote:

I am just going to repeat this question about the Part 1 Boon as it didn't get answered in that thread in the hopes I can get an answer before running part 3.

For the next two parts, do the bonuses from True to the Mission stack? I imagine a lot of people will run this series with the same group which could lead to a very large bonus in subsequent parts if everyone has it.
All five of my players today had the true to the mission boon which brings a +10 bonus to each teams roll, making success pretty much guaranteed.

My interpretation of the boon is that it's +1 for the table in total if they have someone with the boon or +2 for the table in total if they all have it. i.e. it doesn't stack per player.


MisterSlanky wrote:
Kinda scares me that the only commentary are coming from a number of MN posters.

We've boldly gone where no one has gone before.


Disk Elemental wrote:

As the Gunslinger in-question at Ryan's table, it sucks to know I could have saved myself about 10k, but oh well.

At least you can fire underwater without penalty?


Ryan Blomquist wrote:
Serisan wrote:
andreww wrote:
The cyclonic effect gets around wind based impediments, such as the penalty to attack rolls or inability to make ranged attacks in very high strength wind. Fickle Winds is a spell effect and I don't believe cyclonic does anything to get round it.
I've heard experienced players make the claim that Seeking (a +1 enchant) should bypass Fickle Winds because it's a miss chance. Cyclonic (a +2 enchant) had better do exactly what it says on the tin and go through without incident. In my mind, Cyclonic clarifies that Seeking is insufficient to bypass Fickle Winds and Wind Wall.

Interesting - based on my understanding of the rules, Cyclonic flat bypasses fickle winds while Seeking does not (unless applied to a gun, in which case fickle winds is just a 30% miss chance and Seeking does bypass it).

Re-reading it all, RAW tends in that direction. There's a degree to which wind wall was insufficiently future-proofed and doesn't account for the role that we see the several-hardcovers-later firearms taking in high-level content.



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andreww wrote:
The cyclonic effect gets around wind based impediments, such as the penalty to attack rolls or inability to make ranged attacks in very high strength wind. Fickle Winds is a spell effect and I don't believe cyclonic does anything to get round it.

I've heard experienced players make the claim that Seeking (a +1 enchant) should bypass Fickle Winds because it's a miss chance. Cyclonic (a +2 enchant) had better do exactly what it says on the tin and go through without incident. In my mind, Cyclonic clarifies that Seeking is insufficient to bypass Fickle Winds and Wind Wall.


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Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Jared Thaler wrote:

I would like to point out that familiars are meant to be a fairly significant power boost to a character, and improved familiars even more so.

It takes roughly the same number of feats to get a familiar as to get an animal companion, and another feat beyond that to get an improved one. And a lot of the cheaper ways to get familiars don't get ones that can be upgraded to improved.

Though I think the arcane bond, which is supposed to be equal to the familiar, is very much underpowered.

Funny you should say that in this thread. If you have a wand as your bond, it's half price to get Channel the Gift on it. :-p


I would assume that finding the switch is part of the DC 25 Kn (engineering) / DC 30 Perception check.


James Risner wrote:

I'm having real difficulty (from a character optimization perspective) understanding how spending 225 gp per 3rd level spell slot "saved" is in any way considered broken, overpowered, useful, or desirable.

If I saw a PC use this tactic, I'd recommend they stop, because they are burning away their gold reserves for so little gain.

Can someone explain to me how this could ever be considered powerful? 225 gp a spell and an action, when they could simply buy a wand. The difference in caster level is irrelevant, since a Magician Bard can do the same (cast wands using their caster level) so if you ban this spell, you are required to ban Magician Bard archetype and all the other ways to use your CL for wands.

The main thing is that the wand turns into a Wand of [Your Spellbook] with 50 charges. There are plenty of spells that are valuable from 3rd and below where this wand would me immensely helpful. I might even consider using it to tap allies that have buff spells I don't possess that I want.

It's particularly useful with 1 min/lvl buffs, though, from a personal standpoint. At 10th level, I probably won't want to devote a slot to Arcane Sight, but I will absolutely do so if I don't have to expend it "early" in the process. It's also good for scenarios with buff attrition mechanics - i.e. "it takes 2 hours to travel between locations" - that chew through your 10 min/lvl buffs.

Honestly, though, I fear this far less than whatever that wealth would otherwise obtain. It's good for a select few things and pretty bad otherwise. That 11k is likely delaying the upgrade from +4 to +6 on your headband, which is almost universally a bad idea as a caster. That said, though, it's certainly better than any other 3rd level wand in the game and on par with pre-errata Paragon Surge for versatility.

I think there's a differentiation to be made between mechanical and flavor madness. While the character might be unstable or unsound of mind, that isn't necessarily a disqualifier from emotion components. After all, psychedelia is a discipline and I would hardly think that someone who lacks sobriety is in perfect control of their emotions.

The experience chart in the Gamemastering chapter of the CRB goes to 25, funny enough. There's also this section:

CRB wrote:

Beyond 20th Level

Although Classes doesn't describe what happens after 20th level, this isn't to say that there are no resources available to you should you wish to continue your campaign on to 21st level and beyond. Rules for epic-level play like this exist in numerous products that are compatible with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, although in many cases these alternative rules can provide unanticipated problems. For example, if your campaign world is populated by creatures and villains who, at the upper limit of power, can challenge a 20th-level character, where will epic-level PCs go for challenges? You might be looking at creating an entirely new campaign setting, one set on different planes, planets, or dimensions from the one where your players spent their first 20 levels, and that's a lot of work.

Paizo Publishing may eventually publish rules to take your game into these epic realms, but if you can't wait and would rather not use existing open content rules for epic-level play, you can use the following brief guidelines to continue beyond 20th level. Note that these guidelines aren't robust enough to keep the game vibrant and interesting on their own for much longer past 20th level, but they should do in a pinch for a campaign that needs, say, 22 or 23 experience levels to wrap up. Likewise, you can use these rules to create super-powerful NPCs for 20th-level characters to face.

Experience Points: To gain a level beyond 20th, a character must double the experience points needed to achieve the previous level. Thus, assuming the medium XP progression, a 20th-level character needs 2,100,000 XP to become 21st level, since he needed 1,050,000 XP to reach 20th level from 19th. He'd then need 4,200,000 XP to reach 22nd level, 8,400,000 XP to reach 23rd, and so on.

Scaling Powers: Hit dice, base attack bonuses, and saving throws continue to increase at the same rate beyond 20th level, as appropriate for the class in question. Note that no character can have more than 4 attacks based on its base attack bonus. Note also that, before long, the difference between good saving throws and poor saving throws becomes awkwardly large—the further you get from 20th level, the more noticeable this difference grows, and for high-level characters, bolstering their poor saving throws should become increasingly important. Class abilities that have a set, increasing rate, such as a barbarian's damage reduction, a fighter's bonus feats and weapon training, a paladin's smite evil, or a rogue's sneak attack continue to progress at the appropriate rate.

Spells: A spellcaster's caster level continues to increase by one for each level beyond 20th level. Every odd-numbered level, a spellcaster gains access to a new level of spell one above his previous maximum level, gaining one spell slot in that new level. These spell slots can be used to prepare or cast spells adjusted by metamagic feats or any known spell of lower levels. Every even-numbered level, a spellcaster gains additional spell slots equal to the highest level spell he can currently cast. He can split these new slots any way he wants among the slots he currently has access to.

For example, a 21st-level wizard gains a single 10th-level spell slot, in which he can prepare any spell of level 1st through 9th, or in which he can prepare a metamagic spell that results in an effective spell level of 10 (such as extended summon monster IX, or quickened disintegrate). At 22nd level he gains 10 spell-levels' worth of new spell slots, and can gain 10 1st-level spells per day, two 5th-level spells per day, one 7th-level and one 3rd-level spell per day, or one more 10th-level spell per day. At 23rd level, he gains a single 11th-level spell slot, and so on.

Spellcasters who have a limited number of spells known (such as bards and sorcerers) can opt out of the benefits they gain (either a new level of spells or a number of spell slots) for that level and in exchange learn two more spells of any level they can currently cast.

You might want to further adjust the rate of spell level gain for classes (like paladins and rangers) who gain spells more slowly than more dedicated spellcaster classes.

Multiclassing/Prestige Classes: The simplest way to progress beyond 20th level is to simply multiclass or take levels in a prestige class, in which case you gain all of the abilities of the new class level normally. This effectively treats 20th level as a hard limit for class level, but not as a hard limit for total character level.

Command does not have an Emotion component. Position yourself to maximize potential AoOs by party members and Command the caster to approach. Forbid Action can also be used with the choice of "cast."

Use Remove Fear liberally. Keep scrolls on hand or learn the spell and pre-buff it if you think Cause Fear is incoming as the CF will simply dispel the RF with no other effects.


Ahh, caught up by the specific armor abilities! Thanks John.


Your grim pleasure, indeed, John. I love it and am terrified by it.

There appear to be some minor calculation issues in the 12-13 subtier version of Suliji - 32 AC when the mods listed show 31 (though that could include the deflection bonus from Shield Other), +16 Will Save instead of what I'm seeing should be +17 (10 base + 4 resistance + 2 Heroism + 1 WIS mod).

Re: +5 Mithral Breastplate of Speed - I'm not seeing a mod for "of Speed" for armor in any of my sources. Are we intended to use the weapon quality on the armor?

For GMs using Hero Lab, I've uploaded the portfolios for both tiers of Suliji to the PFS Prep site. This NPC is remarkably complex, so I thought this would be a good priority, but it will still require a lot of prep to understand the whole encounter. I won't be able to run this soon due to poor timing, but I intend to get notes up to PFS Prep to help out the Gen Con GMs.

Just pump your armor and chuckle when he can't get through it. Focus on being an AC-based paladin. Get a Ring of Sustenance fairly early, as well, so you can sleep during someone else's watch.

Spermy The Cat wrote:

Ok, so we just talked on the phone, and it turns out we had...a miscommunication. The last time we played, I told him the movement stacks regardless of sequence. He interpreted that as the feet used, not the squares.

So I said 5-10-5, and he thought I said 5-10-15. He says "it's still a dumb holdover from earlier D&D because it breaks the game anyways."


Squares are a bad holdover. Diagonal movement rules keep you from having interior spherical maps due to distance traveled diagonally curving "up" when every square is 5'.

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Diagonal movement has not changed since first printing. I don't think it's a change from 3.5, either.


Order of the Torrent explicitly has never knowingly had an Evil member. That's what sets them apart.


Given that as of the events of Hell's Rebels, there are only 2 dozen members of the order, I could certainly see why that assumption would be the case. I'm glad to see John's response here as there are some compelling characters that could come out of the exclusive No-Evil hellknight order.


David knott 242 wrote:

What do the Additional Resources say about Path of the Hellknight? That would be the most logical primary source for the Order of the Torrent.

It says nothing helpful, if I'm understanding the OP correctly.

AR wrote:

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Path of the Hellknight

All material in this book is legal for play with the following exceptions. Conquering brands and branding iron are not legal for play. A PC may only benefit from either the Hellknight Obedience or a similar obedience character option (e.g. Deific Obedience) at a time, except as allowed by the Might of the Godclaw revelation. In order to swear allegiance to a Hellknight order for the purpose of qualifying for character options in this book, a PC must be lawful-aligned. The shackle spell uses either the fetters or frontal restraint rules on page 15.

If it doesn't say anything about the Order of the Torrent's order discipline choices in Path of the Hellknight, then the only source other than that would be Hell's Rebels 2, which is not sanctioned. Based on the AR, Order of the Torrent is legal, but you then have to reference an illegal source.

There is an exception for lich paralysis, which is what Vordakai has.

Bestiary wrote:
Paralyzing Touch (Su): Any living creature a lich hits with its touch attack must succeed on a Fortitude save or be permanently paralyzed. Remove paralysis or any spell that can remove a curse can free the victim (see the bestow curse spell description, with a DC equal to the lich's save DC). The effect cannot be dispelled. Anyone paralyzed by a lich seems dead, though a DC 20 Perception check or a DC 15 Heal check reveals that the victim is still alive.


Ragoz wrote:
I'm using the term directly from the chronicle sheet. Maybe you can go complain about it to someone else but not me.

How privy is your character to the chronicle? Additionally, we have evidence that things on the chronicle can have alignment impacts on characters, sometimes very directly.

Also, it's not hard to see the following scenario unfold:

Slaagh: “We welcome you to Godhome. You wish to make sacrifice now, or visit? Take holy grub maybe?”
Party: *ARROWS*

We're talking unprovoked murder here. That quote is the direct quote from the module and is the first thing out of the trogs' collective mouths.

CRB on Alignment wrote:

Evil implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient.


Chaotic Evil: A chaotic evil character does what his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable.

I'm no huge fan of the alignment system, but such a situation would qualify under the Evil banner for sure, and I'd consider it fairly chaotic as well. The floor is meant to be a non-trap moral quandary - You are welcomed, given a non-violent solution that accomplishes your objective without filling your pockets. There's a puzzle, but it's optional. Hostilities are completely dependent on your actions as a character. If your character opts to be Indiana Jones instead of a gracious guest, you've trended towards neutral and get attacked for it. If your character opts for racism and immediate violence, it's evil.

I'm certainly not planning on punishing a party who wants to solve the puzzle, but the one that walks in like a tactical combat unit intent on slaughter isn't walking away from that unscathed on the alignment spectrum. I would be recording an evil act on the chronicle and reviewing characters to determine if it was a gross violation for divine casters.

My PFS psychic, level 14. He's a much more generic caster given that he's for organized play, so I can't make the assumption that there will be a wizard or similar at the table to take care of the other extensive needs.

I cannot speak highly enough about Will of the Dead. It is truly wonderful at filling holes in coverage. It also allows for interesting mid to late game utility - any undead you come across can suddenly be affected by Feeblemind, for instance, and have a resultant loss in HP that's pretty significant. While I haven't read Hell's Vengeance, I would expect that there are likely places where undead could pop up as side enemies. Given that your primary focus is a mind-affecting spell, this could be a significant utility for you. The only easy-to-skip phrenic power to swap would be Defensive Prognostication, though.

Logical Remove Fear is one of your most important defensive options in the mid-level range until you can get Intellect Fortress I and afford the slots for it. 7 seems like a reasonable choice for when to get Logical Spell based on your chosen specialization and the craft wonderous selection. The big thing is just remembering to take the spell. Until then, make sure to have potions or scrolls of it available.

I'm up in the air about Gifted Adept vs Magical Lineage. ML is going to have a significant impact once you begin using more metamagic feats. You have a lot of them in your line-up. Just something to consider.


So, one of the things that really bugs me about this floor is that the clear change in nature from base troglodytes has not actually resulted in the expected alignment shift away from CE. PCs who succeed at the pitiful DC 6 Knowledge (local) check to identify these guys are going to know that things are weird from the start. After all, Slaagh is speaking in Common, a language that troglodytes don't typically know, and offering the party "holy grub" immediately upon meeting them.

If the PCs go full murderhobo straight out the gate, I would have one of the troglodytes flee ASAP to find Savisk. Once Savisk is dead and unless the box has been triggered, I would have one or two troglodytes cowering somewhere. If the PCs outright slaughter them, definitely an atonement for anyone who doesn't attempt to stop the murder. For clerics and similar, another consideration is the deity they worship - Sarenrae in particular might consider this a gross violation of her tenets.

The most warning I would give players before going down that path is "are you sure?" given that I don't like the idea of this floor being excessively railroady. It's easy to modify the NPC decision tree to impact the characters, though.

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Gisher wrote:
derpdidruid wrote:
Ah. Thanks for the clear up! It was just so I could get the familiar to say "I'm a tumor" in the Swartzinager voice anyways.
And that is awesome! A method for doing this must be found or created!

You just have it take the form of a raven, which can speak one language of the master's choice.


I did not get one of the whirlpool tub rooms, but they're still available!


jon dehning wrote:
Serisan wrote:

I HAVE TERRIBLE NEWS! The Radisson is completely booked for the entire weekend. >.<

Edit: The Courtyard Marriott up the street is not full, however.

Wait. Wut?

That's pretty much what I said when I tried to book a room. I even called the Radisson directly to see if they saw anything different than what I was getting on the website.

The Courtyard Marriott did have some nice rooms available, including the variety that have whirlpool tubs and king size beds. They probably also have classy things, like strawberries dipped in chocolate. The rooms were all renovated last year, which may be part of the reason that I didn't know about that place when I made my reservations last year. The downside, of course, is that the Courtyard is about 5 or 6 blocks away, whereas the Radisson was basically just hopping a fence.

I still drove that distance because I'm lazy and I only got 1 night last year. What a mistake that was...


I thought 2 months out was early. :-p

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