Senevri's page

Well, DnD and PF use diamonds in various forms in a similar way - I think your best bet is seeing the, rather arbitrary, GP cost of magic items being largely the cost of the empowering emerald.

Senevri wrote:

Bardess --- Name of a class is not the same as the profession or the title of a character.

Classes are a set of abilities, question is, what set of abilities will give you the best match for the character in your mind.

Or do you think Pathfinder sorcerers can do the things Coin does, while Wizards can't?

I actually agree with her that they're not sorcerers, but not based on the name.

Dangling reference. Sorcerer referred to modeling witches. After some thinking, I agree that UU graduate wizards are unlikely to work as alchemists. Perhaps as a future dropout student, though. Pathfinder Summoner is rather different from a Discworld summoner, from my observation.

Agree on Sourcerers.

Bardess --- Name of a class is not the same as the profession or the title of a character.
Classes are a set of abilities, question is, what set of abilities will give you the best match for the character in your mind.

Or do you think Pathfinder sorcerers can do the things Coin does, while Wizards can't?

Granny... Hmm.
Dark Tapestry Legalistic Curse Oracle, or Destined Sorcerer seem like they could be made to fit. It would be interesting if Inquisitor could be made to work, too.

Remember, although she doesn't use much magic, she can go toe to toe with the UU Archchancellor in raw ability. I think it's safe to assume that UU Wizards are as a rule, Wizards, Alchemists and Summoners.

I loved the basic crunch: You have a pool of energy, which you can use to 'power' a set of abilities - you can have multiple ones running weakly, or you can leave several empty and power up one to the max.

Compare essentia to the capacity of a reactor, and melds to weapons in hard points, scanners, grappling arms, etc.

I never was very fond of the fluff, though.

Only their crunch is bland. Their fluff is delicious.

Body, left hand heals, right hand attacks.

Mechanically, body's a level 19 cleric, left hand is a Life oracle 16 and right hand is an Antipaladin 16;

Very loose crunch. Mostly there's a lot of potential, unspecced abilities. I still think this is rather nasty.

Video game boss CR 20
358,400XP, 68,000GP (2x CR 16 + 1x CR 19);

790HP; DR 10/good; Left arm takes Right Arm and Body damage;

True Seeing; SR 25; AC 36, Touch 16;
Saves: 16/16/21

Body: CR 19
Body empowers: auto-empowered cure spells; SR 25 all, Deflect 4 all;
330 HP;
True Resurrection X 3
Spell Immunity 4 X 3; Dispel Magic
Spell Immunity 8 X 1
Channel 9d6.
AC 34;

Left hand: CR 16
Shield Other on body.
Left hand defends:
240HP
Mass Heal; Channel 8d6; 32hp;
Life Oracle:
Life Link: Right Hand, Body fast heal 5. Self takes damage. Enhanced Cures (CLW: 1d8+16)
Channel 3+CHA/day (charisma 24), 10.
Selective Channeling.
Sanctuary DC 24.

// Antipaladin, touch of corruption 15 times /day, + DC 25 vs. Paralysis 1rd / Blind 16rd / Curse
Wounding Evil Speed +5 Large Greatsword: +28/+28/+23/+18/+13, 3d6 + 13 + wounding.
Power Attack: -5, +15;
Smite Good: +7 to hit, +16 damage; Total: +30/+30/+25/+20/+15, 3d6+44 + wounding;
-2 all saves, -6 vs. fear

...yyeah, I think Rogues most likely lost the damage crown.

1. Rogues get 1.75 extra damage per level per attack. This is already beaten by a paladin vs. evil dragons and outsiders on the first hit... still, they do fall a bit behind.

2. Rogues have medium BAB, meaning full-BABs effectively have free Power Attack in comparison to rogue. This is already +0.75 damage per hit. Thus, paladins with power attack just matched Rogues vs. smiteable creatures.

Even fighters get to about 1.25 per level per hit, thanks to weapon training and weapon specialization. Roughly equal to Ranger vs. favored.

This all is not taking to account that meleers get one extra hit, which is probably what drives them to the top.

A powerful sneak talent rogue _may_ be at the top, (at +2 per hit per level) however it's worth noting that at an attack bonus of +11 for TWF, that's not that impressive vs. most.

Now, in an optimal situation, when ignoring to-hit chance, Rogues _do_ probably get the highest damage-per-round, using power attack at +4, which is 0.6 damage per hit per level.

@fireberdGNOME, Blocking is more dangerous than dodging. In fact, usually when you block, you really _should_ parry. else the stronger guy willl win.

There IS an alternate tactic, but it's risky, which is instead of blocking, you _attack_ the striking weapon. It's a good way to make the opponent think twice about attacking.

(in rules-sense, you'd effectively set yourself as flat-footed, and get a sunder attempt vs. weapon.

I think parrying should play from the Duelist pattern and make the Duelist automatically good at it.

So, Forego attack, opposed attack roll, negates a hit. Beat attack by 10 you get a riposte.

Give the duelist a flat +4 on parries, and when their riposte ability hits, they're good. Or even better, a completely _free_ parry.

In pathfinder only materials, I think they have it. But you can get INFINITE DAMAGE using D&D

FTFY.

It's bad to be attacked by an unseen opponent at range, in the middle of the night? Who knew? :P

Yeah, clearly they should be able to tell the direction the arrows come from, and they might have been able to pinpoint the square the attacks are coming from, too... But most of all...

They're being shot at. Why do they remain standing there? RUN FOR COVER!

tl;dr
Seriously, way, way WAY too long.
Has the fact that rogues make excellent acrobats been mentioned? They lose to monks in jumping, but that's about it.

If you don't think that's awesome, the DC to stand on the flat of a blade being swung is 35-40. Technically, I guess you could prepare an action to leap on top of a blade being thrown by a barbarian for some free travel...

Also, Rogues are pretty good with poison, and poison is very nice in PF, especially if you have a friendly alchemist poison brewer buddy.

And, of course, they're still good at TWF. Admittedly, other full melee classes are pretty good at it too, as everyone has additional damage to every hit these days.

Trapcrafting is more of a Shadow bloodline Sorcerer/rogue multi's trick...
( hint: take a hard look at shadow conjuration and the creation spell line. Then look at nonmagical traps. )

I quite like CoC d20.

You can roll your character level on a D20. :) It won't really change much.

@Evil Lincoln: Okay, fair enough - spells as discrete entities do make in-setting sense, when put that way.

And I have been on a skill-based casting kick at the time of typing the OP.

Not sure it still explains having per-level spell slots, but there are _some_ ways to explain that, fluff-wise, too. ( basically, your 'oldest' slots become highest slots and you gain 'new' lower level slots, instead of gaining highest-level slots. )

"best" in what way?
- Magic? Most spells, largest amount of versatility, what?
- Survival? In what environment?
- Combat? Hoo boy....
- Quality of life?

Basilisk blood.

(when your arcane focused weapon is capping out it's +10 enchantment bonus).

DOES it, though? Cap there, I mean?

The Arcane Bond weapon can get quite nasty once you make it an intelligent item. Remember, you can increase the DC by 5 to put in spells you don't actually know.

like, 3/day Divine Power.
Aforementioned Greater Magic Weapon.

So forth.

Basically, a STR-focused arcane duelist, (with 16 cha ) will have a bare minimum of +25 to hit. This is presuming 14 STR.

Presuming you can shop for proper gear, you can get up to STR 30 trivially easily, so it's 25 + 6 inspire courage + 4 greater heroism + 1 haste +5 weapon. +41.

Now, if your DM allows for increased-DC crafting and crafting intelligent items, you can get up to +47, to-hit.

Damage bonuses are, for a 2-handed weapon...

+15 STR, +6 inspire courage, +5 weapon, and another +6 from divine power, for a total of +32 damage per hit.

I'm not exactly sure how it compares, but it is pretty good.

Especially when your weapon is SPELL STORING...

But, I think a ranged bard is probably the better pick. All but STR apply to ranged attacks, too, and thus you can have hasted rapid shot multishot, and each shot getting that +11->+17 on top of it's Mighty score.

Well, you could make _something_ like this and have it be nice:

- give it medium BAB and light armor proficiency.
- Make it proficient with all simple, martial blades ,plus one exotic bladed weapon of your choice.
- Give it access to a spell list consisting of spells from Transmutation, Abjuration and... some odds and ends from Conjuration. Mainly buffing and the types of BFC or blast you might want to cast at the first round of combat. They'd know all the spells on their list, and there'd be... tennish spells per level. Check out dread necro and beguiler lists.

- Skill points being 4+INT is cool.

Frankly, you can get a pretty good model of the full-casting + goodies + limited list pattern if you look at Dread Necro, Beguiler and Warmage.

Although, in PF I suggest a Bard spell progression with perhaps some higher level spells dropped to lower level for this class. IIRC, 9th had practically nothing that a Gish archetype really needs. Maybe Iron Body, Ethereal Jaunt at top level, and some strong abjurations.

In the same way that a 20th level master fighter should be able to hit someone with a nonmagical common longsword with more force and skill than anyone less powerful than him: because he has feats like Power Attack, Weapon Focus, and Weapon Specialization (the wizard's counterpart is Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, the evocation school's intense spells ability, and so on). He's still using the cheap tool. If he used a better tool, he'd do more damage.

Heh. Well put. Indeed, unfortunately fighters don't get their tools automatically, and they may not be have decision-power to pick which tools they get.

I really should try a game where, if loot is random, so are the spells primary casters gain... :P

If every spell a caster has becomes incredibly powerful, then caster power increases very fast. If a burning hands can do 1d4 per level caps-at-20th, why bother learning a higher-level spell that does 1d6 per level caps-at-20th?

Because it does _something else_. Make first-level spells basic and simple, and make the higher-level ones more advanced. Add status effects, terrain changes, and so forth. Sure, you'll end up with 'why use a lower level spell, then?' but that's the situation right now... and the earlier spell would still have SOME worth, especially for players who don't like complexity all that much.

Yes, because "I cast the fire spell" isn't boring at all. :)

Touché.

And here I thought knowing all the ins and outs of the game was a fun thing. :)

Oh, it is, up to a point. Having a zillion spells doing very nearly the same thing... not necessarily the key.

Admittedly, there'd be some emergent traits - you'd probably need some sort of a reserve mechanic (as 10 - or even 30 - spell slots in and as themselves aren't very much), and perhaps a design/on-the-spot modification mechanic. Hm. (scribblescribble)

Anyway, sounds like you'd like the new magic system Jason is working on for Ultimate Magic. :)

Ooh gimme! :D

One of the reasons I didn't go for 4e once I finally got to look at it was the fact that everything runs on the same system. The reason I like 3.x is that it works by bolting an add-on to the basic chassis.

Senevri wrote:

So... Why keep level-specific spell slots? It makes little fluff sense, even for wizards and none at all for sorcerers.

Requesting a citation of the fluff you're referring to.

Okay, the basic vancian fluff is that wizards create a space in their head where the spells go to live in, until they're cast.

Now, with the slot system, a wizard creates a tiny place, another tiny place, and suddenly, a place that's twice as large. (although one could see it as one of the tiny places stretching and the wizard gaining another tiny place, which does make a bit more fluff-sense).

A sorcerer's spells are innate - them having specific spells is already a bit... odd, (unless all researched spells enter/come from some sort of a platonic idea space which the sorcerers hook up to.) but the fact they have a per-level limited number of slots is rather odd - although moderated by the fact that they can use higher level slots to cast lower level spells ANYway... but, regardless,

In the odd chance that a sorcerer has spent most of their lower-level spell slots, they.... have to spend the power equal to 'time stop' to cast 'grease'. I'm sorry, what?

thus, I feel it's just more intuitive if the power scales automatically. I mean, as-is, no matter how hard you try, after 9th level or so, your magic missile - or burning hands, isn't going to get any better.

Of course, to implement a slot system like this, you'd have to limit the number of slots a caster gets. On a 1:2 ratio, a Sorcerer gets about ~10 slots from their progression, which isn't a lot, admittedly. (although a 9th-level slot is priced at 256 1st-level slots. )Going by the spell point translation cost, it'd be quite a bit more, around 30 or so, I think. ( haven't done the math on that one. )

Regarding Burning Hands: If a 20th-level wizard has a 20-die burning hands, a 20-die fireball won't see use?

The thing is... There's a bunch of 'lesser' and 'greater' versions of various spells floating around, the justification being that you can't have unlimited power from a low-level spell, and that higher-level spells should be more awesome. But, if you didn't have slots of a specific level you cast from, you could have the spells freely scale, as you'd always be casting the highest level of spells you could potentially cast.

I mean, sure, it's a great way to pad up the spellbook, to have an elemental attack spell, for each element, for each level, each having a bit better maximum damage, few more feet of range or radius... :P You can already print 45 spells by doing that. Instead of one which scales.

There IS an economy issue, in that a wizard or sorcerer should be able to cast hundreds of little spells per day, although in practice, most spellcasters I've seen, rarely go above, oh, ten-twenty per day.

Of course, speaking of game styles and 15-minute wizard days, to bring in the word processor design analogy, if you say 'people only use 20% of their class features' , you'd better be really sure everyone's using the SAME 20% before you go a-pruning.

Mm... a two-handed weapon style Urban Beastmaster Ranger. With a Tiger.

Let's see:

- loses hunter's bond
- loses 6th level feat
- loses camouflage
- loses handle animal and k:nature
- loses favored terrain
- loses endurance
- loses hide in plain sight.

Yeah. No overlap, so it's legal.

:P

Factotum has few spell slots, but only one of them can be of top level. Basically, the rest are one level lower, or 6th level slots.

And nobody's been complaining that their casting is overpowered. So... Why keep level-specific spell slots? It makes little fluff sense, even for wizards and none at all for sorcerers.

If one'd eliminate the level-specific slots, and all slots were of the highest possible level, one could get away from spells which cap based on the level. There'd also be no need for greater/lesser variants.

Yeah... but... that's not strict PFRPG.

But, I agree. Int-based, skill-based, and can even get Bardic Music abilities, later on ( which is when we meet the Doctor, in the first place )

No; Vancian magic is far too powerful to work will with psionics.

Not really --- the SPELLS are too powerful.

Not to say that there aren't incredibly powerful Psi powers(which, aside from Schism, mostly just duplicate wizard spells), but less published material, less overpowers.

Power points to vancian magic--

Note: There are no psionic cantrips. That puts them behind all other casters.

1. Augments.
- For every 6 points equivalents in augments, an augmented spell must use a spell slot one higher.
- All spells automatically scale to augment level of 5 points in their current level slots.

2. Slots:
Psion-to-slots:
1st:...2
2nd:...6
3rd:...7/1
4th:...7/3
5th:...7/4/1
6th:...7/4/3
7th:...8/5/3/1
8th:...8/5/4/2
9th:...8/5/5/2/1
10th:..8/5/5/3/2
11th:..8/5/5/4/2/1
12th:..8/5/5/4/3/2
13th:..9/5/5/5/3/2/1
14th:..9/5/5/5/4/2/2
15th:..10/5/5/5/5/2/2/1
16th:..10/5/5/5/5/3/2/2
17th:..11/5/5/5/5/4/2/2/1
18th:..11/5/5/5/5/4/3/2/2
19th:..12/5/5/5/5/4/4/2/3
20th:..12/5/5/5/5/4/4/3/4.
-----
This is literally presuming they always manifest their highest level powers. Now, if we say that you can't have more higher level than you have lower level slots, the last two levels go:

19th:..14/5/5/5/5/4/4/3/2
20th:..14/5/5/5/5/4/4/4/3.

Well,
don't I feel redundant. :/

As for the "wisdom based monk" one feat can do that: Intuitive Strike - it's from Book of Exalted Deeds and grants the wis modifier in "to hit" rolls in place of str modifier.

Well, it's one-half of the solution - You still have a damage problem.

Intuitive Strike + Insightful Strike would give freedom to dump DEX to 13, at least.

Hm. I actually calculated it once... I think a calm Hulk has STR score around 80-100.

Thor isn't too bad, actually. Or wasn't, might be harder now that there aren't a zillion splats to choose from.

Cleric, Weather + Air domains, of course. Max STR - admittedly only goes to 36.

Hammer of Thunderbolts
This +3 Large returning warhammer deals 4d6 points of damage on any hit. Further, if the wielder wears a belt of giant strength and gauntlets of ogre power and he knows that the hammer is a hammer of thunderbolts (not just a +3 warhammer), the weapon can be used to full effect: It gains a total +5 enhancement bonus, allows all belt and gauntlet bonuses to stack (only when using this weapon), and strikes dead any giant upon whom it scores a hit (Fortitude DC 20 negates the death effect but not the damage).

When hurled, on a successful attack the hammer emits a great noise, like a clap of thunder, causing all creatures within 90 feet to be stunned for 1 round (Fortitude DC 15 negates). The hammer’s range increment is 30 feet.

STR 38.

Dip Barbarian, STR 42.

You could also try a wholly barbarian base. Strength Surge, Ground Breaker, Knockback... Greater Elemental Rage, 3 levels of Horizon Walker for flight...

Or combine divine + barbarian, do a Winds/Battle Oracle / Rage Prophet.
STR goes up to 44.

Mmh, sort of depends on the flavor. I still think Cleric fits Marvel's Thor best.

Thank you for that.

It's EASY for the book to be overpowered. Imagine a group, with:
- Wisdom-focused monk
- A wizard who crafts potions and wands and whose staple spells are magic missile and fireball
- A finesse Fighter.

Then add a warblade or swordsage to the mix, whose combat capabilities are really HARD to screw up.

Better question would be, why _aren't_ those characters I mentioned first good in combat? They're rather iconic concepts, so they, they really need to work.

Or the game is, kinda wrong.

Vancian magic is logical, albeit odd.
Mages spend a great deal of time and effort making headroom within themselves. Basically, they partition off parts of their mind.

When preparing a spell, the caster coaxes magic out of their environment, patterns it using the magical description in their spellbook, and creates a magical construct that 'lives in their mind.

The correct analogue is that they are fireworks makers. Reality-altering fireworks, but hey.

Single BBEG encounters against a prepared party almost never work due to the screwed action economics.

Either the BBEG has only little impact / is forced to flee fast and thus the fight is anti-climactic and probably disappointing or the BBEG is prodigiously strong and then it usually kills one or more party members in a DPS race which feels unfair.

Yeah... This is so annoying. There are some ways to work around it:

What else?

Crunch... Appropriate BBEG for a 4th level party: A level 6 Advanced Orc Barbarian.
STR 16 DEX 18 CON 20(22) INT 14 WIS 15 CHA 12
Raging: 20/18/24(26)
Nat AC +2
3 feats: Toughness, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush
3 rage powers:
knockback,
renewed vigor 1d8+8
equipment: Belt of CON +2, +1 Breastplate, MWK Falchion
Attack: +15, 2d4+12, Bull rush CMB: +16
Power Attack: +13, 2d4+18.
HP: 93(HD 6d12+54). AC 23 (10+7+2-2+4)

Hm. Maybe a bit much, on the attack side. Will kill a 4th level character on two hits, which isn't too bad, but...
Okay, let's do this instead:
Warhammer + Heavy Steel Shield. Damage drops to 1d8+8 - 1d8+12, AC climbs to 25. A 4th level melee-focused character will have +10 to hit, so they can get up to +12 while flanking, hit on a roll of 12. Often enough, not too bad.

/huge digress.

This may be of use, or possibly not.
Based on the question, "what's wrong with having negative modifiers?"

Combat patrol is rather decent BFC for a full-BAB tripper with a reach weapon.

Combat patrol was, what, 5ft per 5 BAB?

A reach tripper, enlarged, has a reach of 15ft,
so, total reach 35-40ft or so? Anything that moves gets hit by a combat maneuver.

but, as mentioned, if you can't afford a permanent +2 magic item by the time you get wish/miracle...

It's called a Brain Eating Alien Time Traveller From The Future.

I'm all for giving Crusader a D12 HD.

@people saying "Use something not-PFRPG":
I'm not thinking of running a game for the purpose of this thread. I'm thinking of participating as a player.

Just a FYI. Keep on suggesting different stuff. Someone else will find an use for it, sure.

@Goth Guru: Fun table.

@Darkfell, what's Aberrant D20? Conversion from a WW game?

@Beckett:
Victor? Is that you?

:P

Agreed on CON.
I'd say he has WIS penalty, and has Unnatural Will (use CHA instead of WIS for will saves).

No need for DEX, craft is INT based.

I ran an epic game once. There was no epic spellcasting, just higher level spell slots. very beneficial with metamagic. Works fine.

This gives you the additional benefit of bumping time stop into a 10th level spell.

Remember also, you can research spells. Just research your own 10th level, 15th level spells.

Not yet. Sorc/Wiz list is supposed to be the best.

That's amazing for Gishes, though. Divine Power.

Ah. Agreed.

Er, indeed. What I meant was, what spells can I cast on MY animated objects to BOOST them?

Oh, and found a solution: Cleric, Artifice/Construct subdomain. Nets Animate Objects - equivalent power at level 8.

I took a look at Arcana Evolved, then watched a few trailer for korean fantasy games in youtube, and since I'm on a sharing mood...

* First, indeed -- why not just progress as suggested PFRPG? Why not have progressive attacks, as well as 10th and beyond level in spells? Indeed, those spells that seem overpowering, could in fact be bumped up a level or two.

* Second, Hero points. Epic points. Epic Hero points. A bit fuzzy there, but
- for a game likely to go epic, giving the players hero points, or perhaps beginning to give them at epic, is a flavorful idea.
- I was thinking, a new use for the points could be getting the ability you could have, oh, five levels from now. Go beyond the impossible and kick reason to the curb, and all that.

* Third, our 'what feels realistic' sense of weaponry has developed based solely on combat against medium humanoids, and typically medium or large beasts. Weapons for monster slaying would be different. That got me thinking...
- Special versions of weapons, which have a BAB prerequisite, and possibly, a penalty, but would give, for an example, a significantly higher damage vs. creatures of large enough size. F'r ex, a Wyrm-slaying reach greatsword, which required BAB +11, and would be so heavy and slow to swing that you'd lose one attack per round, but would instead deal 4d6 or 6d6 base damage vs. Huge or larger creatures.

Exotic Weapon mechanic is clunky here, as I don't think variants of common weapon types should be considered 'exotic'. In fact, IMO, Bastard Sword being an exotic weapon makes little sense to me.

The basic mechanical reason for 'monster-slaying' weapons - I guess it could be a template - is reducing the number of attack rolls a character has. It needn't be perfectly balanced and equally beneficial - it just needs to be tempting enough to use.

- lose iterative attacks, gain bonus is the basic idea.

Int damage doesn't disallow spell usage. You have to deal ability drain instead.

Wotcha talkin' bout? "The minimum Intelligence score needed to cast a wizard spell is 10 + the spell's level.". Seems a pretty clear-cut case of no stat, no casting to me.

Indeed you do! As one remains away from the embrace of Hypnos, one's attention to detail erodes.

In any case, I'm sure you can see the issue, then.

What sort of spells can be cast on mindless constructs, by the way? One'd rather not go the intelligent item route.

Thought to mention. You can animate a Huge one, which is CR 7. Next step is CL 16, which is CR 9, so...

Mecha clerics, y'know.

Any ways to boost AOs?

...and the wizard was arrested under the suspicion of jaywalking.

Y'know, treating spellcasters like that is a GREAT way of getting the town nuked by an angry cabal.

Int poison or drugging is probably the sanest way. Cast iron fullplate won't stop spells without somatic components and so forth. If their INT is brought down to 9, they ain't casting.

Looks like it might be useful. Thanks for the heads up.

Yep, components are still there but no one really worries about them unless they are the 10,000 gp diamond or something. It's really turns into too much micromanaging to worry about.

Really? You've never listed every single component you have, and the number of doses? You clearly have too little free time in your hands.

"Go get me some viper guts, boy!" "But master, where am I supposed to find those?" "Are you simple, boy! Find some vipers!"

A nice encounter for a solo 1st-level mage :) You can even score some venom while you're at it.

Besides the pearl, you also need an owl's feather for Identify.
the scare spell requires a bit of bone from a corporeal undead.
( the joke: You're waving around a rotten body part to scare people ).

Ah well.
It does depend on the game type. On higher level, or with certain character types, just list the spell component pouch in your inventory.

I actually finished a version of that class. I looked at it, and thought of how much weaker than a wizard it is, and I agree, a medium BAB could be about right.

It's kind of a frail psychic now, a more martial character (offensive tactical TK, bursts of strength and speed) would be interesting. Hm.

The pattern would be:

- Getting a power like telepathy or telekinesis or somesuch at first level. A 25 pound/single object dealing 1d6 TK isn't anything broken at first level.
- Get spell-like abilites - basically from the list of abilities wizards have stolen from psychics.
- Get a few boosts so that the class is better at it's niche than other classes.

A psionic discipline could be as simple as a set of 9 powers of level 1-9 as spell-likes, useable 3+relevant stat modifier times per day. A 'moderate/hybrid' version would get 6, and a 'fighter' version would get 4.

But, this is sort of a 'for dummies' thing. I kinda miss some sort of a token system, but 'usable as CL = level, 3+STAT times per day' is a perfectly good mechanic. Of course, for some powers it doesn't matter if it has an use limitation or not.