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Secane's page

FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 1,436 posts (1,446 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 12 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Lantern Lodge

Rynjin wrote:
Anybody else think he looks a little...stumpy? He looks like he's 5 feet tall, if that.

I think it has to do his cloth-like armor and all that gear he has on him. The skirts don't help with height as well.

However, if he IS 5 feet tall, that only makes him a lot more scarier...

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Some party related questions:

1) Do you feel that synergy among a party's members is important in a game?

1a) And if so. How can a GM encouraged such synergy without making it feel like it is forced upon them.

Edit: By Synergy, I mean having party members that are able to work together to pull of combos like a Paladin build to encourage enemies to engage him, while a Cleric follows up with Holy Smite. Or w Liberation domain Cleric working with a Wizard casting web to lure and trap enemies.

2) Do you ever feel that giving total freedom (other then alignment choices) in character making is a bad ideal?

3) If a party feels "slanted" towards certain classes/roles, aka there are too many casters, there are no blasters or the whole party are martial with no healer whatsoever, etc. What would you do to make the game enjoyable? Encourage players to try out other classes? Adapt the campaign to work with non-typical party? Kill of the extras, until the party "gets it"?

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While I am worried that the Slayer will be unbalanced against some of the core classes. Zadim, the Iconic Slayer is a total winner!

I mean... wow, just WOW.

THIS is the way to start off an Iconic! I really can't wait to see and read more on Zadim in any future product.

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CraziFuzzy, I see your point.

Given that my character is a PFS character, I likely won't ever earn enough gold enchant my weapon pass +3. At least I won't be able to, if I wish to buy other items.

He is already lv 9, with only like 9 games left in him. 16k is a huge investment for him.

And as mentioned above, it is hard to predict what your party members will be in a PFS game. It may seems counter intuitive, but in PFS games, characters must be a little more self sufficient.

Thanks for the break down tho, I will keep it in mind if I ever play a paladin in a homebrew.

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Kazaan wrote:
Half-speed is double movement cost; they are the same, mechanically speaking, in Pathfinder. If you're moving at half speed, it costs you 10 feet worth of movement for every 5 feet of actual distance you cover.

Hummmm... Your right. Not sure what I was thinking when I thought half-speed. :P

Please ignore my original post.

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Supporting an unchained fighter! Dotting this!

Hope for something like:

Pick one save, the fighter gains a +1 to this save and gain an additional +1 every X levels.

Scales like weapon training.

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Thanks for the breakdown, Tels!
Sorry for annoying you. :(

Will remember to search more in the future!

And I noticed the Fighter unchained thread. Going to pop in and have a look.
I really do hope they take a look at the fighter!
Hope for: +2 more skill points, allow acrobatics, feat bonuses, reflex good save!

Lantern Lodge

I did face one encounter in a scenario, where having failed a certain ridiculously high diplomacy check, we had to face a DR/Evil NPC. My CG Figher-Cleric Archer was not happy about it, but some Clustered Shots were called for.

If such an event happen to my Paladin, I would likely have to non-lethal such an NPC, so the +5 would be helpful to both hit and damage DR/Evil.

I would likely just use bond for holy, as to hit is much more important for my character over holy. (Also having played a fighter-archer, I realize Holy is worth more if it can go off like 5 times a round. :P)

I think calagnar kind of explain it above. Scabbard of Keen Edges is kinda expensive for what it can do and my needs. If I drop 16k for it, I might as well just grab Keen?

The feat just seems a cheaper options. Not to mention, I could retrain it if I really want to later for just 5pp and 500gp.

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@Tels ,
Ok... There are 480+ posts, just wanted to know if I missed anything. No need to get all offended.

The podcast mentioned quite a bit, I was just hoping that an extra comment on any other class was being dropped by the design team.

I also see you have some interesting ideals for improving the fighter via improving feats, I do hope something a long that line to help the fighter appears in unchained.

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Ok, I'm a little late to this. Only just heard about it on Know Direction.

Other then the 4 classes in the description above, any info on the other classes like Fighter, etc?
Will they be touched upon as well? I heard in the podcast that all 30 classes will be revisited?

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taldanrebel2187 wrote:
If you really want to upset your Wizard friend, show him this somewhat optimized build.

Actually it might be better to show him a proper blaster caster build.

Show that any class can be build and played well.

Let him realize that its not that your barb (which seems to be a perfectly normal barb.) that its OP, but that his wizard needs to step up his game.

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To the OP,

The person that is upset at you sounds like a newbie player who has never seen a barbarian in action before.

Barbs are usually quite strong at lower levels.

And Wizards start of weak and kick ass later. (Looking at you lv 5, 8d6 fireballer... :P)

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I thought flying up is not double movement, but rather you fly up at half-speed. Which seems the same, but have huge differences in terms of use, like 5-foot.

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calagnar wrote:

To brake it down what your really looking at. As both brake most DR with out needing to smite every thing in sight. So yes the feet is worth it. As the cost increases as the plus effect on your weapon increases. Where as the cost of the feet is static. You can buy a lot with 14,000 gold, or just make your weapon keen.

Cold Iron Falchion +1 Keen Holy = 34,450
Cold Iron Falchion +1 Holy = 20,450
Cold Iron Falchion +3 Keen = 34,450
Cold Iron Falchion +3 = 20,450

You will find the level cap at 12. will make any thing above a +4 weapon hard to afford. Using a +3 weapon will make it much easier to buy other things then just the weapon you need.

Beopere wrote:

I think most people have argued the advantages of both choices. There are reasons for going either way. How about deciding based on the feeling of your character?

A feat represents something about who your Paladin is. What he has devoted his time to and what he excels at, rather than where he puts his money (still important but more fluid, as others have said)

So which sounds better:

Your Paladin becomes closer to truly mastering the blade. His ferocious onslaughts frequently score devastating blows that no enemy can recover from.

Your Paladin grows closer to the light, being able to channel more positive energy into himself and others. He chooses to focus his efforts here so that he won't falter when standing between evil and those he protects.

I was going to argue for the second, but your Oath's and Ragathiel favor the first.

That's some very good points.

I think I may have been trying to get my Paladin to do too much. I always see his enhanced ability to heal due to an enhancement by his fey heritage.

And I never did fully consider the gold requirements for getting keen. Especially in PFS, with its limited gold.

A +3 weapon will help a lot, especially since I can up the enhancement bonus to a +5 and by pass most DR (Those that Smite Evil can't work against)

I think I will grab Improved Critical now at lv 9. I may grab greater mercy later at lv 11 and ultimate mercy at 13 (if I ever play this character pass 12.)

Thanks for all the input everyone.

Lantern Lodge

Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Secane wrote:

@ Malachi Silverclaw,

Never quite see it as a reason for others to rise you.. but ya! :)

My reasoning is if they don't raise you, then who will raise them? If they have the ability without you, it will cost them 5,000gp/pop.

If they raise you (for 5,000gp), then you can raise anyone else, but for free! Just ask them what they would buy for 5,000gp, then point out that compared to a normal raise dead, Ultimate Mercy is like a raise that comes with a 5,000gp cash bonus! Has a choice ever been more obvious? : )


Paladin, "Guys I will just stay safely behind here. Don't worry I can rise you if you die!" :D

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Planning to take this at lv 11, as Carlos has said... it is a way to get the party to want to keep you alive... :P

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@ Darksol, but do you think the extra crit range should come from taking Keen or via Improved Critical?

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Really? I always thought that the fighter works fine... the rogue could be a little weak at times, but I have seen some scary fighters.

Like a pure crit fighter that was downing the entire room of mons. (The scary part was that is was build with just the CRB, only his weapon was from UE.)

Or the Fighter Archer, which could be mainly due to how powerful archery is and fighter gives it all the extra feats it needs to be scary.

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Secane wrote:

So are the Core Classes (Figher, Rogue, Ranger) still relevant at all?

Or are they being demoted to NPC classes?

Ranger is still very useful, and overall, actually more powerful than Slayers.

Fighter has always been underwhelming and Rogue were made obsolete before you even reached their chapter in the CRB.

Mostly this.

Though I'd argue it was actually the APG that really made Rogues completely obsolete. They at least had Trapfinding as their exclusive right before wasn't much but it was something. And Fighter's been pretty much obsolete at least as long as that (Barbarian and Ranger both got much better in the APG...while Fighter didn't, and wasn't really on par even before that). That's nitpicking more than disagreement, though.

Humm... I feel I should clarify my original question as I have played and played with good fighter and rogue characters.

By relevant, I mean it in a why would players still want to play these core classes? When there are much better and similar themed options out there?

It is not as if the core classes are flawed or are unusable options.
The Fighter and Rogue can work fine in a game, but it seems like the advanced Classes can do it much BETTER.

Shouldn't the newer classes be made to complement the core classes? And not over-shadow them?

Lantern Lodge

@ Mavael,

As I explained earlier, this character is a Pathfinder Society Organized Play (PFS) character.
You don't always get to pick who is at the table with you in a PFS game, every mission can have a different party setup.

Which can some times be awkward, like when there is no one who can heal in a party, not even use a CLW wand... :P
When the whole party are 8 charisma barbarians and fighters, on a diplomatic/knowledge mission.

@ Malachi Silverclaw,

Never quite see it as a reason for others to rise you.. but ya! :)

Lantern Lodge

@ Mysterious Stranger,

I totally miss that! Humm... I don't usually prepare bless weapon, but it is good to know!

I just worry that it is a little situational... I need to have bless weapon up, and that is 1 round of combat I can be casting divine favor, moving closer to a target or attack. Action economy :(

@ Claxon,
The main reason I wanted Greater Mercy for the extra +1d6 is due to the Blood Rage spell. That spell ups my str by +2 (max +10) for each 5 points of damage I take (after casting the spell, healing does not reverse the effects.), but also downs my AC by -1 for every 5 damage. I want to be able to stay on my feet! The Fey foundling extra +2 hp per dice helps too.

Lantern Lodge

Tindalen wrote:
Flinging my dwarven waraxe with hand of the apprentice is awesome enough as it is.

So you are asking this as a sort of rule exercise / English language analysis?

Back to topic:
If this is for PFS, I would advise against trying the ideal of shield slam + HoA out. The reason is simply that you will likely face table variation. Given the feat and possibility gold commitment, it would be sad if a GM rules against it.

I think perform part covers any application of a combat manoeuvre. Otherwise people can argue that if you can use HoA with a Mancatcher as well, since the word "Perform" does not appear in the first part of Mancatcher. And once grappled, the target would have to be move to an adjacent square as per the grappling rules.

If Paizo has to lay out each power or spell with a cover all list of faqs, each book would be 100x long.

Lantern Lodge

@ Kazzan, This is for PFS, so there is no fix party. Each game is different.

My Paladin is sort of a mix bag... So here is a short info list:

Main Weapon: +1 Cold Iron Falcata 19-20/X3, w/ Buckler(Usually on)

Falcata proficiency via Opalescent White Pyramid (Cracked) Ioun Stone (implanted into back of character)
- Only works for the above Cold Iron Falcata, don't give proficiently with other falcatas. Backup weapons are +3 str comp long bow and twin spiked gauntlets.

Short Backstory:
Silver Crusade. Aasimar, Taldor nationality, Ulfen ancestry, Fights using traditional Taldor weapon combo of falcata + buckler. Fey Foundling (actually RPing this like a typical non-golarion setting fey, can't lie, etc)

STR: 20
DEX: 8
CON: 16
INT: 14
WIS: 7
CHA: 20

Oath of Vengeance and (maybe) against Fiends, Paladin of Ragathiel 8 / Dual-Cursed Oracle of Lore 1

Sidestep Secret (Su)
Focused Trance (Ex) - Yap, he is knowledgeable and joins the PFS to expend that knowledge. This is no dumb dumb, "why am I in the society?" paladin.

Curses: - There is no optimization reasons to take dual, I went with it to get character fitting curses
Legalistic - aka typical fantasy Fey can't lie
Haunted - Fey Magic!

1) Fey Foundling - I actually RP his heritage.
3) Extra Revelations - Focused Trance
5) Power Attack
7) Unsanctioned Knowledge - Vanish, Blood Rage and 2 more. Blood Rage fits Ragathiel ideal of Vengence perfectly. You hit me, I hit you back harder. Also reason why I may need Greater Mercy.

9) Greater Mercy or Improve Critical (?)

11) Improve Critical or Ultimate Mercy (?)

As you can see he is a bit of everything. My main concern is really which to get first, cos if I don't take improve critical now, I may yet take it later at lv 11.

But with my character able to use only that single falcata, there is no additional benefit to take Improved Critical over keen...

AHAAHHAHAH!!!! I can't make up my mine... T_T

Or is there some other feat, I SHOULD take that I'm missing here...

Lantern Lodge

So are the Core Classes (Figher, Rogue, Ranger) still relevant at all?

Or are they being demoted to NPC classes?

Lantern Lodge

@blackbloodtroll , What Majuba is saying is that while using a shield strapped to your arm is a weapon. HoA requires you to grasp a weapon to use it. If you take just hold a shield in your hand to use HoA, it is no longer a weapon per se, but an improvised weapon, as your are not equipping a shield, but just holding a shield in your hand.

A clearer example would be armor spikes. If you are wearing an armor with armor spikes, they are a weapon. If you just hold your spiked armor in your hand, it is not a weapon, but an improvised weapon.

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Why not just have archers NPC in encounters?

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So my PFS 2handed Paladin just hit lv 9 and I saved up enough gold to grab Keen for my weapon. My original plan calls for me to grab Greater Mercy for more staying power as my lv 9 feat. This will up my LOH to 7d6 (4d6 + bracers of the merciful knight 2d6 + greater mercy 1d6)

However, while discussing with my fellow players, I was advised to just concentrate on increasing the +X on my weapon. Especially since my Paladin does not have weapon focus. I was also advised to grab Improved Critical over Greater Mercy, unless I plan to take on missions that will face elementals or golems (aka monsters that crit is useless against.)

I really can't decide if I should grab Keen or use my lv 9 feat slot to grab Improved Critical instead.
For those who have played paladins, any advise?

EDIT: Holy on my weapon has been though off and decided against. It would be easier to just use my bond to grab holy if needed.

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Sun Wukong?

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Humm... I wonder how Kess's brothers and sisters would see her now?
Would they be proud? Horrified?
And if they have grown out of the bullying attitude to her. (I mean people do change and grow up. How many times do we look back at our lives and realize how silly we are at certain ages.)

Nickname: "The Bull" - !
I'm sure I am going to get confuse her with The Bull from dragon age inquisition, whenever someone mentions the "Bull".
Heck! They even have the same live life large attitude! :P

Lantern Lodge **

Different PFS groups have different play styles among them.

Some would appreciate and encourage roleplay, others may have a more mechanical/optimization mindset among players, some GMs just give the story flat, others may role-play them out...etc

Get a feel of what your local PFS group is like, then use the rebuild rule to make a character that fits your group.

Lantern Lodge

@Rudy2, I would also suggest you look at inner sea gods to have an ideal of what Irori and those that worship him are like.

The ideal of perfection through holiness does not seem too far from some of Irori's base ideals.

Lantern Lodge

For a maxed out LOH build, why not go with a Tiefling (favored class self-LOH +1 hp per level) + Inheritor's Light (Iomedae, +1 hp per heal dice) + Greater Mercy + Fae Foundling (as above) + Bracers of the Mercyful Knight.

For every 1d6 LOH you receive, you heal about +4 more.

For example, at lv 8 your LOH is 4d6(1/2 your paladin lv) + 2d6(bracers) + 1d6 (greater Mercy) = 7d6

Thats 7d6 + 14 (Fae foundling) + 7 (Inheritor's Light) + 8 (Tiefling FC)
= 7d6 + 29 hp heal as a swift action each round.

You would almost never go down due to hp. Don't go max armor, invite enemies to hurt you as you literally HP tank for the party. :P

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Just asking, are all these new iconics, Pathfinders?

Cos their stories are really cool, but none of them mentioning joining the Pathfinder Society. Just curious.

Lantern Lodge

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Someone who lives a happy, fulfilling life. The sort that adventurers dream and yearns for, deep in their hearts.

Lantern Lodge

Glad that it helps.

If its any consideration, Irori Paladins are noted by the designers to be very rare. And their relation as paladins to Irori is a very personal one, hence they are like the only Paladins that don't have an "order" or a fix set of paladin codes (Most other deities have a set of codes for their paladins.)

So feel free to whip up a set of paladin codes for your Irorian paladin.

I also have to assume you have seen the Iroran Paladin, paladin archetype and discarded that ideal.

So if Ki Channel is the focus of this build, why not try a Warpriest/Monk of Irori instead? Or a Cleric/Monk? May be something you can try out. I see such a character as more similar to real life Buddhist monks that do practice martial arts.

Lantern Lodge

Off hand thoughts,

Breaker archetype fits the hulk ideal, with the ability to grab and melee or throw anything as an improvised weapon at lv 3.

Seriously have you seen how hulk attacks? He uses his bare hands or GRABS anything at hand to use as a weapon.

Rage Powers to consider:
Body Bludgeon!!! (Get this totally, make it work! Hulk grabs YOU to SMASH!!!)
Strength Surge (Hulk's ANGRY!!!)

Just these off hand.

Lantern Lodge **

@ DM Beckett,
Thank you for making this poll. It really helps to see what others thinks about the new and old faction missions styles.

I must point out that I wish you had included a 4th option along the lines of:

4) I don't like the newer or older factions missions and would prefer to see something different for future seasons.

Currently your 3rd option is just a don't care/ no preference option and don't allow an option for GMs that don't like either the new or old styles.

Lantern Lodge

The Golarion setting -
Please note that for the Golarion setting, it has been made clear by Paizo many times that in Golarion, all divine classes other then the Druids, Rangers and Oracles need to worship a deity. It is setting requirement. That is why you don't see deity-less clerics in Golarion. The world setting requires divine classes to have a deity.
The part of a Paladin or Oracle need could be deity-less in the CRB is part of a grandfathering of 3.5 rules into Pathfinder. Pathfinder is meant to be backwards compatible with 3.5 rules.

PFS campaign rule -
In PFS, as explained in the Guide to Society gameplay, it is a PFS rule that divine classes must choose and worship a deity. The Deity must also be one that is available for worship, aka it must be in the core assumption or in the additional resources. That is why you can't make a cleric of the outer gods, as an example.
(Please check the PFS guide for further clarification.)

On the mechanical and thematic question -
Yes, for PFS, you need to worship a deity, this will lock you out from the feat/spells options of other deities. You can role-play paying lip service to other deities, but you can't worship them the same way you do your chosen deity. If you want the Ki Channel feat, you have to worship Irori to access it. The worship is a requirement. For thematic reasons, threat it like it is something only Irorians knows.

If you are in a Golarion setting campaign, then you are required by the setting to worship Irori to access the feat. Again, it could be treated that the knowledge on how to Ki Channel is something only Irori Paladins knows.

However, if you are in a homebrew, even if it is one that is set in Golarion, then all the above is mooted, as it now totally depends on your GM. Does he or she, allows you to worship multiple deities? Does your GM require you to be a paladin or Irori? All this can only be answered by your gm.

So Summary,
PFS - Yes
Golarion setting - Yes
Homebrew - Ask your GM

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Just checking, Aasimar/Tiefling characters made via GM credit are fine right? As in they already have chronicle sheets/xp credited under them, so they are grandfathered in right?

Lantern Lodge **

Jacob Audette wrote:
It's a bummer to see the aasimar and tiefling go. I'm pleasantly surprised to see the Nagaji, wayangs and kitsune included, especially considering the dissolution of the Lantern Lodge. I look forward to seeing this develop.

I thought the Lantern Lodge has not been shut down, but has upgraded from just a faction based in Absalom, to a full lodge in Goka?

Maybe the actions of the Lantern Lodge on Goka is what spur the influx of Tien Xia races to join the society in the inner sea region? (As an in-game story reason for "opening" access to these races.)

Still holding out for the day the Lantern Lodge is a playable faction again.

Lantern Lodge **

I would prefer faction missions to be done in some other way other then the 2 mentioned above.

GM Reasons:
1) The old style some times takes up way too much time. It also sometimes causes the players to refuse to work together, causing faction friction. It gives a "split the party" feeling to some tables.

As a GM, I feel like I not only have an extra number of things to track, I have to deal with a party that don't want to work together as well as they should.

2) The new style causes players to start "hunting" for scenarios. Aka, players start "picking" which scenarios they play, and rightly so as some scenarios just give much more to certain factions then others.
This reminds me of 4e, where I know some local players would play certain modules for the rewards that module gives.

As a GM, I get:
1- Unhappy players that don't know a scenario is made of factions that their characters are not part of, aka why am I not getting x reward on the chronicle sheet?.
2- Not enough players to run a scenario, aka, sorry I don't have a character of that faction.
3- Occasional confusion in newer players. Aka, So I CAN'T play this scenario? My character is not of the right faction, etc.

I hope that a newer refreshing take on faction missions can be made available in the new season.

Lantern Lodge

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As Black Feather has written above, while you can't play the Master Summoner archetype in PFS, this does not means you cannot play a standard summoner in the a master summoner style.

Going with Black Feather's suggestion of Spell focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning, and Superior Summoning, you can summon 1-4 animals by lv 3 and upgrade them to elementals at lv 5.
Having played with a PFS summoner that focuses on getting summons out and uses his Eidolon as rogue like character (diplo, fly, stealth scout.). I can say he has one of the most useful characters around. The summons he has out have help saved missions, put out fires, and help keep the enemies off the party.

And yes, a smaller race may have some uses here, as you can get off with having a medium Eidolon, preferably one with fly.

For your ability scores, I would suggest:
STR: 12 DEX: 12 CON: 14 INT: 12 WIS: 12 CHA: 15 (BEFORE racials)

Why such an even distribution? Here is a break down:

STR: 12 - You want some str to wear light armor, BUT you DON'T need it high at 16(!). You should not be front-lining, having a high str is pointless.

DEX: 12 - Some Dex is good. You can go up to 14, but its not a priority.

CON: 14 - Have a good CON stat. I have seen way too many characters dying off permanently cos they made characters that "will just stay safely at the back." In PFS, you would never know what your party make up is. And its not a MMO, Monsters will target spellcasters and will attack from the back. That Fireball is not going to care you are "at the back".

INT: 12 - This is upped as there are 2 points left over. More skill points never hurt.

WIS: 12 - Never dump your Wisdom! Ever hear of a spell called dominate? Or faced sirens? Low Will saves = the Party facing ANOTHER enemy (aka you). AND since you have pets, suddenly the party is facing a whole lot more enemies... :( . There are also certain scenarios that love to throw mind affecting spell against the party all the time.

CHA: 15 - You would want a good cha if you are focusing on getting the most out of your summon monster spell like ability. with a total of 17 after racials, you can up that to a 18 at lv 4 and with a headband have it at 20. That is 6 summon monsters a day. You can up this higher... but not at the expense of your other ability scores.

As a "master-summoner-like" summoner, you want to 1) Survive 2) help the party survive 3) Buff and support the party.
Hence have a good hp and good saves. Don't drop Con Or Wis.
Ability scores should be Cha>Con>Wis>Str&Dex>Int, for reason as stated above.

Hope all this helps!

Lantern Lodge **

Well... there are a class or 2 with limited crafting abilities in pfs (see PFS faq), but none for traps.

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Can a druid actually wear a Jingasa of the fortunate soldier?

Isn't it a "conical iron jingasa"? And druids can't wear metal armor?

Or is this a case of its a wondrous item and not an actual "armor" per se?

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Thanks all for the input.

I may just go the restoration + a couple of months or years of
retraining" to help make up for the lost.

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Can a spell like restoration Or may be cure disease help with stunted growth due to malnutrition?

Trying to figure out a way to for the party I'm GMing for to help a number of malnourished NPC teenagers under their care. (Their growth have been stunted due to the malnutrition. One or 2 may have body image problems.)

Just need advice on this story ideal.

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Necklace of Adaptation

Source Ultimate Equipment pg. 259 (Amazon), PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 1
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 7th
Slot neck; Price 9,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
This necklace is a heavy chain with a platinum medallion. The magic of the necklace wraps the wearer in a shell of fresh air, making him immune to all harmful vapors and gases (such as cloudkill and stinking cloud effects, as well as inhaled poisons) and allowing him to breathe, even underwater or in a vacuum.
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, alter self; Cost 4,500 gp

Good to have when you need it. Cos IF you need it, you will wish you REALLY have it.

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I suggest for looking up a site like, when making characters.
All the sources are listed on the respective pages.

Once you have an ideal of what sources your character needs, you can follow Paz's advice and get the PDFs.

Planning ahead on what to get for your characters can help you save quite a bit of money.

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Y. Duskwalker wrote:

Looking thorough this whole thread, I saw mention that elven chain CAN be enchanted/upgraded, as it is a non-magical (mundane) item, though named. This is still true I presume?

Also, due to it's specially crafted property allowing it to be treated as light armor, wouldn't it make a better baseline for consideration of attempting to upgrade it to celestial armor, which shares that ability?

You can enchant non-magical unique armor like the elven chain.

However, celestial armor must be purchase as is and cannot be "upgraded" into:

Michael Brock wrote:
There is no upgrade path to achieve Celestial Armor.

Original post is on page 3 of this thread, about 9 post down.

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This is how I see the whole unarmed strike on BK issue.:

Unarmed strike means 2 different things in the game:

(1) Unarmed strikes as per the combat rules section, Ordinary unarmed strikes that anyone can perform.
Written as "unarmed strikes(1)" for the rest of this post.


(2) Unarmed strikes as per the monk's class feature. A monk can use any part of their body to strike with this and they do more damage as a monk level up.
Written as "unarmed strikes(2)" for the rest of this post.

The most recent source of brass knuckles, UE, removed the line of it dealing a monk's unarmed strike(2).
The line in BK's description saying "allow you to deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike" means unarmed strikes(1)

However some people still mistake the "allow you to deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike(1)" line as meaning a monk's unarmed strike(2).

The problem seems to stem from a 2 things with the same name.
This is how I view it.

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