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Secane's page

FullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 1,262 posts (1,270 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 8 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Lantern Lodge

James Jacobs wrote:
Secane wrote:

In Golarion, how would their respective societies view an Elf-Dwarf couple?

Specifically, an Elf from Kyonin and a Dwarf from the Five Kings Mountains.

Would such a couple be considered unusual? Deviants? Hated? Shunted? Made outcasts? Or would they be accepted as an unusual, but acceptable relationship? Or is such a relation ship considered perfectly normal? Or even preferred due to their relative long lives?

And what if both are of noble or royal birth?

I'm trying to make sense of a character backstory in the Golarion setting.

Such a couple would be considered VERY unusual. They would absolutely face hatred, confusion, derision, and difficulty from their nations. The elven side would warm to the relationship faster and more universally, once the shock of the unusual pairing wore off, but the dwarf side might not ever fully accept it.

Thanks for answering!

I fear as much...

From what I have read on the elves of Kyonin, they are extreme isolationist.

1) So would Kyonin accept an adopted Dwarf child of such a union? As in if the Dwarf takes up the family name of the Elf and they choose to live in Kyonin, would the elves even accept it?

2) Especially if both parents, Elf and Dwarf are nobles or even members of the royal family in their respective nations?

3) And how would such a Elvish speaking Dwarf child, growing up in Kyonin,see him or herself and the world?. Would he or she sees herself as a... Dwelf?

I'm assuming adopted elven or half-elven children would have a much easier time then the dwarf child in Kyonin.

Lantern Lodge *

Hi, I'm going to be running this in a con tomorrow and I have some questions.

1) Why does General Tenasi speaks in a weird 3rd person-kinda way when answering questions? Like calling her patrol teams, "the elves" instead of "we", Kyonin or "our teams"?

Is this intentional? Is the Kyonin military around the tanglebriar separated from other Kyonin elves or something?

2) The boss has a Keen weapon, but the thread range is just x3? Isn't a Keen weapon double the threat range? So it should be a 19-20/x3?

Just checking.

Lantern Lodge

In Golarion, how would their respective societies view an Elf-Dwarf couple?

Specifically, an Elf from Kyonin and a Dwarf from the Five Kings Mountains.

Would such a couple be considered unusual? Deviants? Hated? Shunted? Made outcasts? Or would they be accepted as an unusual, but acceptable relationship? Or is such a relation ship considered perfectly normal? Or even preferred due to their relative long lives?

And what if both are of noble or royal birth?

I'm trying to make sense of a character backstory in the Golarion setting.

Lantern Lodge

So why is the Mana Wastes, even called the Mana Wastes?

Given that Mana usually means a form of magic resource for casting spells in most game settings.

I mean how did the people of Nex and Geb even come up with the name Mana?
Why not just call it the Magic Wastes or the Wild Wastes...etc?

Does Mana, as a form of magic resource used for casting spells, actually exist in the Golarion setting?
(Being just that Vancian type magic is more common and popular.)

Sorcerers do kinda plays like a mana-using class, but they are still a form of Vancian magic users right?

Is a Magus's Arcane Pool a form of mana?

Lantern Lodge

Some random questions. (Sorry if these have been asked before)

1) What is the relation (if there is any) between Rovagug and the Outer Gods?

2) In a 1 on 1 fight between Rovagug and an Outer God, who would win? Rovagug? Or an Outer God? (If its has to be a specific Outer God, lets go with Yog-Sothoth.)

3) How does the different deities that represent a similar Portfolio relate to each other? Like how does Deities of the Sun like Shizuru and Sarenrae interact? Or the once dead Tsukiyo and the dead Azlanti moon goddess Acavna?

3a) Are such gods aspects of each other?

3aa) Are deity aspects a concept that exist in the Golarion universe?

4) Tsukiyo is a deity that died, but managed to resurrect with the help of other deities. Could something similar be done to other dead deities?

5) Would the names of the God of Smiths and Goddess of Love that appeared in Shelyn's history be revealed?

6) Is Magic a "stable" force in the Golarion universe? As in would there ever be a change of magic going totally chaotic as in some other settings like the Forgotten Realms?

Thanks in advance for any answers.

Lantern Lodge

Some more nice ideals here.

lol, I might go with an extra layer to the story, where the Kobolds love of story is due to reality warping by the mites in the first place... :P

Kingmaker is truly malleable.

My version of Kingmaker's background story:

My adventurers are actually handpicked agents working for the 10 Guilds of Ravnica (yes as in the Magic the Gathering plane of Ravnica.) Who are sent to Golarion via a 1-way portal to help the guilds maintain their control over the organization that they (the guilds) formed over 400 years ago to explore and catalog the world of Golarion.

10 guilds for 10 Decemvirate. And you wonder why the Pathfinder Society is so active in knowing everything there is to know.

The whole Kingmaker story is to help them set up a base for adventures in other parts of the world.
We are using the slow advancement system. It allows me to keep throwing stuff at the party, and every leveling up feels like an achievement.

Lantern Lodge *

Well, PFS should be inclusive of everyone, try explaining to the GMs.

Or if there must be a "no-player zone" then have him seat the closest spot to the GM.

After all its less likely for a GM to call foul a player who is rolling right in front of him.

Also if you notice any GMs giving him a hard time, try explaining the situation to them before, during a break or after the game.
Communicate his need to see the dice close up to them. Inform the GMs so they know.

Lantern Lodge *

Could he sit next to the GM, roll and have the GM verify the roll, before he picks it up?

Your husband can still pick up the dice to read it. The GM just have to have a quick glance, to check the number rolled and make sure what your husband reads out is the actual roll.

Lantern Lodge

Dotting this. To the OP, thanks for writing this up. I have been contemplating using a spellpoint system for my homebrew for some time now. The main reason I back off from it is that the 3.5 tables from d20srd.org just don't work properly for pathfinder classes.
I could have tried to edited it to match, but it just seems too much trouble for whats it worth.

Thanks for breaking it down.

Just a two quick questions,
1)is the nova mechanic meant to ration out spell points over the course of a day?

2) And is is possible to use the charts with a simplified spell cost of as per the spell level? Or will this give spellcasters too much spellpoints to use per day?

Thanks again for this!

Lantern Lodge

James Jacobs wrote:
Secane wrote:

I see that many of the minior gods have their subdomains listed.

In Chronicles of the Righteous, it is stated that clerics of Empyreal Lords gain access to all subdomians options available to them from their empyreal lord's domains.

Would the release of Inner Sea Gods: Deities over right or change this access?
Asking more in view of PFS gameplay.

PS: If the Empyreal lords are not appearing in Inner Sea Gods: Deities, then I guess that nullify the above question.

The Empyreal lords are all listed in Inner Sea Gods. And they do indeed list specific subdomains for them. So it would indeed overwrite the notion that a cleric of an empyreal lord has more options than any other cleric. That's not really something we should have done.

When I saw the line on any sub-domain, I assumed it was for the purpose of simplicity and keeping the word count down.

This may have quite an effect on PFS players playing divine classes characters.

Players that own only the Chronicles of the Righteous and APG, may be confused over sudden restrictions on sub-domain on their characters that worship an Empyreal lord. Or may have to be retrained(?)

I hope that this would be look into before and when Inner Sea Gods: Deities is release. To give players some warning about such a change.

Hope someone from the PFS side is reading this.

Lantern Lodge

@pennywit, Thanks for the ideals!

I never did thought of it that way... the ideal of adding an extra layer of complication with the mite's reality being affected by the kobold's story telling is a very interesting ideal!!!

And I do have a Paladin Judge in the party. This should help give the party more ideals.

I may just want to limit the story telling effect to these hexes or that such story effects only affect lower level and certain fae types. I want to avoid the party becoming overly concern or try to influence the nature of fae npcs with story.

To that end, I think I may just make it a first world effect that affects this particular tribe of mites.

@LoreKeeper, thanks! It look very interesting.

I'm going to dig through it for ideals.

Lantern Lodge

So in the current version of kingmaker I'm running, I made a lot of changes to help bring the story to life.
Most of these changes are fine and don't divert too much from the story, but I'm worried about an up coming change to the story that I'm planning.

The Planned Changes:

The War of the stories

Both the Kobolds and Mites tribes are changed to be unusual tribes of their respective races that love stories and tales. Accept they love them in different ways.

For the Kobolds, the role of the Kobolds shaman is given to the best "story-teller" among them. I changed them to be addicted to stories and whoever can present the best story among them, becomes their Shaman. They LOVE to CHANGE stories to make them more interesting and basically make up things as they go along.

The mites on the other hand, are presented as "stick to tradition" story tellers that refuse tell the stories in any different way other then how they were originally heard. (yes heard, they don't write stories down.)

So the whole "war" between the Kobolds and the Mites is going to be a change into an "ideological war". They are basically fighting because they disagree over how certain stories actually goes and how to tell such stories.

The party is to notice that the corpses of kobolds and mites they found actually died from exhaustion. They are basically trying to out shout each other to death over a story.

The ideal is for the party to try to resolve this peacefully, by getting them to agree to certain stories, kill off 1 side or take control of both tribes, by becoming the best story tellers around.

Currently, the mites have attacked the party once outside their lair and failed. When the party investigate the mite's lair they will find the mites with captured kobolds. The mites trying to "brainwash" the kobolds to see things their way.

On the Kobold's end, they could care less about the boring Mites and just wish that the Mites would be less boring and not so stuck up about what goes where in stories, as long as they are fun.

The Mites are presented as the aggressors here and the Kobolds as the ones who started it (The Kobolds keep pranking the Mites by changing the stories in the middle of a telling.)

Would this be too much changes? Am I pushing my players too far by possibility changing a series of combat encounters into RP ones?

Lantern Lodge

Agree options 1 or 3.

A Cleric or a Druid would be helpful. I side more towards the Cleric, but that because I love the Cleric's ability to heal HP and ability scores damage.

Your party lacks the following:

1) Dedicated healer
2) Solid frontliner
3) Full caster

A Cleric or Druid can handle most of the above 3 roles. Both the Cleric and Druid can heal, summon pets to tank and are full casters.

It would really just depends on which you prefer. The Cleric is much more better at healing, while the Druid can tank better with an animal companion. Remember that BOTH classes can summon pets to tank. The saurian druid get them out faster at later levels, but the Cleric's summon monster spells, mean the pets he summon can smite.

Lantern Lodge

I see that many of the minior gods have their subdomains listed.

In Chronicles of the Righteous, it is stated that clerics of Empyreal Lords gain access to all subdomians options available to them from their empyreal lord's domains.

Would the release of Inner Sea Gods: Deities over right or change this access?
Asking more in view of PFS gameplay.

PS: If the Empyreal lords are not appearing in Inner Sea Gods: Deities, then I guess that nullify the above question.

Lantern Lodge

For the propose of PFS, would the glider really allow you to place ranks in Fly?

It just seems weird, since you are using a vehicle to achieve flight... while the fly skill seems to be more for flying via magic or natural wings.

If the gilder works, won't having a flying purchased mount like the Dire bat or Giant vulture also be acceptable to place ranks in fly?

Asking, cos it seems the restrictions on placing ranks in the fly skill is being easily overcome with $$$ :P.

Lantern Lodge

Ok, I'm a little confused. I just went to pathfinderdb and checked the links for:

http://www.pathfinderdb.com/character-sheets/static-character-sheets/948-ha ppy-campers-pathfinder-character-sheets

And they all appear to be fine. Was able to dl them all with the UC and UM classes tuck under the pisonic pdf.

Was pathfinderdb down is the past monsth/s?

Oh, and does anyone know if happy camper is making character sheets for the advanced classes?

Lantern Lodge

Cool.

I have some ideal. Going to work on it and post later.

BTW, What are the rules for divinity in Celstia?
Aka, Do deities need worship? Or are they like Golarion gods, beings that don't need worship, but make use of worship as source of power?

Are there ranking for gods? Demi-gods, lesser gods, great gods etc?

Can they have aspects? Avatars? Can Aspects over take the "main" god and become the new "main" aspect of the god?

Do there need a source for their divinity? Aka Ambrosia, Peaches of Immortality, an All-Father/Mother?

Can they die? And/Or Be resurrected?

Is there an over-god, example Ao from Forgotten Realms?

Do they need to maintain a "balance" or is it anything goes?

Etc?

Just wanting to know if any such rules have been set, so I know where to start writing.

Lantern Lodge

Mikaze wrote:

A GM dictating how a PC feels, what they think, or what they do regardless of how the player envisioned their character. I've seen this ranging all the way from irritating to outright horrifyingly awful.

Speaking of the latter, GMs that spring obvious triggery material on players without any kind of warning whatsoever.

As a GM, I admit that I did this to a PC Cleric once. I had him saw a fellow PC as his "Goddess" and had him worshipped her, groveling at her feet.

Of course, I only did it only because that PC Cleric was high on Flayleaf and failed a fort save and a will save.
I mean what was I suppose to do when a PC goes breathing tons of Flayleaf smoke?

Lantern Lodge

So this is the official thread now?

*Oh and is it too late to add to the gods?

Sorry for not posting much, been really busy for the past few weeks.

Lantern Lodge

Make sense that only the force effect of the ring gets destroyed.

Nice way to avoid a nasty spell. And since it works only once a round, nothing is stopping a 2nd spell caster from hitting you with a 2nd Disintegrate.

Lantern Lodge

@_@? Huh?

Can't you just use the Adopted social trait to gain the Enlightened Warrior race trait?
Won't that allow you to make a N or NG Barb + Zen Archer?

Enlightened Warrior
Source Blood of Angels pg. 21 (Amazon)
Requirement(s) Aasimar - Idyllkin
You have always found it easy to maintain inner peace and enlightenment that translate well to the battlefield. You may take levels in monk even while maintaining a neutral or neutral good alignment.

Adopted
Source Ultimate Campaign pg. 59 (Amazon), Advanced Player's Guide pg. 1 (Amazon), Second Darkness Player's Guide pg. 13 (Amazon)
You were adopted and raised by someone not of your race, and raised in a society not your own. As a result, you picked up a race trait from your adoptive parents and society, and may immediately select a race trait from your adoptive parents’ race.

Lantern Lodge

Group size is 5. But usually only about 4 will turn up.

They are using a variable up to 25 pointbuy system. The less RP their race costs, the more points they have for ability points.

They are reasonably strong for level 2s

Lantern Lodge

In my current homebrew, I'm having the players use a hitpoint formula of 1/2 hit dice + 2 + Con mod.

However, I'm wondering if I should change it to max hit dice - 2 + Con mod instead?
For a more obvious difference between classes.

My 3rd option is to keep method 1, but up barbarians to 1/2 HD + 3 + Con mod. To make it more fair for a barb player.

My game have enemy encounters of CR+3-4 commonly. The party does only face one such encounter every day. Most other fights are easier.

Lantern Lodge

@ Zhayne, maybe role-play reasons?

@ Bigdaddyjug, you can check out the religion page on pathfinderwiki.com

There are some Empyreal lords that heavy into item creation, fire or may justice and investigating. Could make sense to worship one.

Lantern Lodge

As what Robert said, but here is some clarification:

You still have to hit a swarm's AC to actually HIT it. (as in method 1)
You can't HIT a swarm by just targeting the square.

Method 2 is just damaging the swarm with the Alchemist's Fire's splash damage. Which means you just need to hit the squares, which are AC 5.

If you have an Alchemist character around. He can rely on his throw anything ability to add his INT mod to his splash weapon's damage. This also ups the splash damage from such weapons to include his INT mod.
An Alchemist have a much better change of hurting a swarm via splash damage from a splash weapon.

Lantern Lodge *

@0time,

Sorry for necroing this thread.

I had re-ran The Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment 2 twice more to great fun.
The ideal is to be creative with how you present the temple to the players.

In my re-ran, I present the temple inhabitants and the temple itself as place inhabited by a bunch of health/exercise freaks.

In the re-runs:
The food that appeared on the table are all kinds of "health foods" like bitter gourd, soybean blend, infused with wheat grass extract or wholegrain with purified clay bread.
The ideal is to not spill the beans on the temple too early. The food would taste horrible to the player characters no matter if they happen to have a Heresy Point or not

Lantern Lodge

With respect to earlier posts

Don't allow BULLYING at the table. Be fair to everyone.

1) Don't let the player/s bully the GM and other players. - EVERYONE should have a fun time. Don't allow a player or players to bully you, the other players or pick on 1 player in the party.

Don't let allow players to force you into accepting their ideal of how a situation should have played out. For example, a player might try to abuse his or her diplo skill, by quickly saying out his character's actions and rolling the dice straight away.
Slow down! Make sure you understand what the player is doing in the given situation. Analysis it, THEN decide which skill the player SHOULD be using for the given situation. Don't be afraid to clarify or pause the game.

On the other extreme, don't allow a player whose character lack the proper skills to "Role-Play Power-gaming" pass situations. A player's character is not represented sololy by the player's own personal social skills. Make sure proper rolls are made by the player in question. Don't let the -2 to diplo Barb auto-succeed on a DC 20 dilpo roll, just because the Barb player is good in talking. If he/she wants to play a party face character, he/she should have made a party face character.

Also avoid logic loops, they are often use by players to justify actions that should not be allowed. Like nonsensical justifications for PvPing.

2) Be Fair - State house rules clearly and early. If there is a need to include new rules or changes to existing ones, make it clear the reasons why. Like to make the game more fair in some ways, or state why you feel a rule/feat/spell has been abused... etc.

Overall the game should be fair and fun for everyone. Be flexible with players. If the player whose character has the best social skills is not good at talking in real life, allow him or her to explain her character's actions in 3rd person. Don't punish players for their imperfections, it is their characters that the story is interacting with.

Lantern Lodge *

@Dylos, Oops! Bad given example. Some how I thought it was sanctioned. My bad.

I'm thinking of mixing in another AP(sanctioned) into my Kingmaker. The party is on the slow xp track, so I'm thinking of ways to give the players a wider variety of encounters and events with Kingmaker as a base.

Lantern Lodge *

I got a related question. Sorry for posting this here.

If I'm running a homebrew that incorporates the entirety of 2 AP, can I give chronicle sheets for the respective APs to my players?

For example, if I'm running Kingmaker (non-PFS-sanctioned AP), but in-cooperate the whole of Wrath of the Righteous (PFS-sanctioned AP) or another sanctioned AP into the homebrew, basically running a campaign that is a mix of these 2 APs, can I issue chronicle sheets to my players for the Wrath of the Righteous AP or other sanctioned APs?

Lantern Lodge

Ah... Just read up on E6... so players stop leveling after lv 6, but still gain feats? Interesting...

Btw, are the feats gained after lv 6, level dependent?
Asking cos, won't that make classes like rangers and monks that can gain bonus feats that are many levels ahead of other classes like the fighter, much more powerful?

Lantern Lodge

Sorry missed an edit:

BTW, I know magic is cap at level 6 spells, but is this a high or low magic world? Or a High in the background, low for mortals world?

Lantern Lodge

This looks interesting. Dotting this. :)

@Browman, are you going to setup something like a google doc for this game world that you can invite others to edit?

EDIT: BTW, I know magic is cap at level 6 spells, but is this a high or low magic world? Or a High in the background, low for mortals world?

Lantern Lodge *

Sior wrote:
Seth Gipson wrote:

To my knowledge those resonant powers have not been reprinted anywhere, and I doubt they will be.

I would imagine what they mean by 'Superseded' is that the Field Guide is now a part of the Core Assumption for GMs, and Seeker no longer is. However, the Field Guide has been superseded by the Society Primer since then, too.

However, neither the Field Guide nor the Primer are in the Core Assumption. At least so far as I can see. Not anymore/yet, anyway.

True. They are now just part of the additional resources.

So if you have them, you get to use the vanities, classes and items they contain. Just like any other source.

Most books have a couple of things, be it feats, spells traits etc that are "unique" to that book. This is a way to get people to buy more stuff.

Otherwise, Paizo is going to lose money on printing, salaries, writing, artwork, etc, each time they release a new product that "consolidates" or reprint stuff from previous books.

Lantern Lodge *

By superseded, I think they meant that the information on the society inside Seekers of Secrets is no longer as up-to-date as the Society Primer.

Other then that, it is still a legal source and all vanities, items etc as listed in the additional resources are still legal.

Lantern Lodge

Was it written somewhere, Ultimate Campaign? That an inn/barkeeper earns like 2gp per day? And a higher income job would amount to 3-4gp per day?

Lantern Lodge

BornofHate wrote:
Philip Knowsley wrote:
Secane wrote:

Sigh... I wonder if I'm giving them too much freedom... :P

Yep...but all that means is you just have to work harder for the whole

campaign, or start again... ;-p
Ok, so maybe it's not quite that bad, but it'll definitely be a LOT of
more work...

Agreed. I allowed 25 pt buy and I regret it. I have spent hours of unnecessary prep time adding additional baddies just to maintain a challenge for my group. Increasing WBL and other benefits to the PCs will only add more prep time for you over the course of a very long campaign.

Luckily, you have the community here to help :)

Thankfully! :D

Currently, I'm just adding more similar monsters, or calling up NPCs that fit the situation, like the werewolf boss, bandit party above. For other encounters I change them significantly.

For example,:
The fairies got changed from "fairy tricksters, to a "fairy court" which lay judgement on the party, after they killed the brother of an "intelligent" Tatzlwyrm. They now got long term story powered Geas on all of them... :P

One of this days, I'm going to post a "HELP!!! I need to challenge my party thread."

Thanks for all the input!

Lantern Lodge

@Philip, Thanks, I'm already referencing the 6 player mod. Its pretty helpful, like the 25 xp per person for each hex.

@ BornofHate,

It is a little hard to find a good balance for my players. Especially since I give them almost total freedom to make any kind of character they want. (With story and balancing restrictions)

Basically, they can make custom races and archetypes.

Thanks to these customizations, my players' characters can be anything from a 15 to 25 pointbuy depending on their race choices.

I got a 1/2 half-elf, 1/2 Dragon Sorceress in my party, getting the dragon from the ARG and a human who has Outsider Native (Aasimar) after he got given an experimental treatment.

There is a player playing a straight up Judge Dredd Paladin to the the above human outsider monk that is going to be a damage king once he hits lvl 3, thanks to a customized monk archetype and a modified Dervish Dance that works with spears.

Sigh... I wonder if I'm giving them too much freedom... :P

Lantern Lodge

Just putting the link to the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play (PFRPG) PDF.

@Dark Vicar, you would want to read the guide. It contains all information you need to play a Pathfinder Society game.

Lantern Lodge

The only problem I see is if you flurry with a weapon. Dragon style only works with unarmed strikes.

Lantern Lodge

Seems like I got the bandits wrong they are only 1/3 CR not 1/2 CR.

Combining their xps, it totaled, 2,475, for a CR 6 encounter. Which they were able take on and defeat!
*Note, the Paladin and Cleric got pretty solid defenses of 20 and 18 AC respectively the Bandits cannot even hit them 90% of the time with their +2 attacks.

I wonder does me allowing up to 25 point buy + 1000 starting GP, made them a little too tough for their level.

Oh well, I guess I should try to peg encounters to give them a challange.

@BornofHate , oh I will be hitting them more then once a day if the situation makes sense.

Big question, I find it not a challenge at all, throwing low attack mobs like bandits on the party. The Bandits just can't hit them!
What should I do?
Traps? Entangle via tanglefoot bags? Use deadly Terrain? Throw Single high CR monsters at them instead?

Lantern Lodge

They are well rested and it was the only fight of the day. They were heading back to the trading post. They did not gain any physical reward for a RP encounter the night before, and I wanted to reward them in some way. Ideal was a bandit band with goods.

I factored that since I 1) did gave them 1000gp to start their character with and therefore they could have purchased an alchemical silver weapon. 2) Gave them a alchemical silver dagger in a previous loot and 3) They have a paladin that can by pass DR with smite, they should be ok.

I just wonder if I should up the challenge of future fights to match the party? Or stick to the book and potentially have them wiping the board and make light work of other encounters.

Edit: And they did have an alchemist with them, who could have bombed the werewolf to death.

Lantern Lodge

So I'm running Kingmaker+ aka with changes and I'm wondering if I'm getting the balance in difficulty right.

Party is 7 in size, BUT! Only 3-4 players are usually playing at any time. Non-present player's have their characters, out-of-commissioned.

<Possible spoilers>
So an example I have was for a party of 4 players, 1 paladin, 1 warpriest, 1 monk and an bomb alchemist face down a party of bandits, consisting of:
5 bandits 1/2 CR (as in the book)
1 Werewolf "bandit leader" 2 CR
1 Mercenary Healer 1/2 CR
1 Savage Mercenary 1/2 CR
1 Dire wolf "called by the werewolf" 3 CR

They faced the above party in place of 6 bandits as call for by the book.
Once combat starts, the monk starts whining about if I got the CR right and that the fight looks way more then the party can handle.
Eventually, the party was victorious with the Dire wolf going down last and the monk and alchemist on the ground.

So my question is, Is this encounter really too much? Am I way overboard on the CR? Is it ok to have a lv 2 party face a DR 10/Silver enemy?

Another example of a change I did was the spider lair. I upped the giant spiders to 4 giant spiders and 1 spider swarm, the terrain is full of webs that the spiders can move into, but PCs can't with out being trapped. Any fire effect burns the webs and exposes the hidden spiders.
The sorceress and alchemist pretty much burned everything to a crisp with bombs and burning hands. No challenge here.

Extra game information -
So changes from a normal game (Using PFS standard):
- variable pointbuy - depending on race options, up to 25 point buy, 15 lowest.
- Max hp level 1. 1/2 + 2 hp per level from lv 2
- 1K starting gold
- Characters start Kingmaker at lv 2
- Extra equipment (minor artifact - gives a lv 1 spell on charges)

- 1 campaign trait (chosen from any available trait, say trait becomes a campaign category trait.)
- 2 traits OR 1 feat
- Allows custom races and archetypes (with balancing and approval)

- Out-of-commission characters get 1/2 xp.
- Exp path is slow.
--------------

Lantern Lodge

Discomancer wrote:

@Secane:

You know what, you are right: my title was misleading and perhaps I need to be completely fair to the base race. Editing my original thread to repose the question.

That said, how would YOU build a base, STR-focused Halfling?

Hestvon, the Halfling Hercules! (Build ideal) -

Ideal is to make a build that matches the ideal of "Hercules" and is able to punch, kick, use any number of weapons from a rock or a club to a bow.

STR: 15 DEX: 12 CON: 16 INT: 10 WIS: 12 CHA: 9
STR: 15 DEX: 14 CON: 15 INT: 10 WIS: 12 CHA: 9
STR: 15 DEX: 14 CON: 14 INT: 12 WIS: 12 CHA: 9- Or something similar
(drop lv 4 into STR and lv 8 and 12 into STR or Con or Dex)

Now small PC on medium mount charger is all good min-max wise, but the title is Hestvon, the Halfling Hercules. HERCULES, as in the demi-god of strength!
Don't see Hercules running around on a mount in his adventures, so why should Hestvon?

We are going to make a well optimized, but stick to flavor-wise character.
So with the ideal of a halfling "Hercules" as an ideal, lets break it down what the mythical Hercules can do, and it is not all just Strength and kill monsters.

1) He can beat monsters to death with a club, fists or anything in hand
2) He is very strong
3) He is good with a bow
4) He wears the skin of the Nemean lion (which implies DR)
5) He is good at wrestling
6) He is very tough
7) He is not stupid, cunning even

That is a long list so, so lets try to incorporate as much as we can into Hestvon. I too would suggest Barb as a base, but we may want to level-dip to get what we want.

So Barb Titan Mauler or Invulnerable Rager, +Urban Barbarian, both match flavor wise, so its up to you, one or the other.
1) Titan Mauler is more weapon friendly (Cos with the right levels in you can start making use of medium sized weapons with no problems.)
2) The Invulnerable Rager+Urban Barbarian more about toughness AND the ability to boost your DEX, when you need to whip out a bow. Urban Barb
3) Or you can just go pure Invulnerable Rager for toughness, if you want to keep the skills of handle animals, knowledge nature and Survival

Now we want to show that Hestvon can take on anything, not just good with weapons, so lets grab unarmed strike and the ability to take anything and use it as a weapon. Hence we are going to take 1 level in Monk of the Empty Hand.

<WAIT WHAT?? Monk + Barb??? Lawful vs non-lawful? FEAR NOT! When there is a will, there is a way! The Key here is a trait called Enlightened Warrior for Aasimar - Idyllkin, grab it via the Adopted social trait. Now you can take levels of Monk and still be a Barb, as long as you are NG or N. The other method is to take the lv of Monk first, then change alignment and go Barb the rest of the way. (Method 2, don’t require the use of a trait.) Remember being non-lawful only stops you from progressing as monk, nothing is stopping you from being a monk first and then stop taking further levels in monk.>

Also don't be afraid to go a couple levels of Monk of the Empty Hand, say up to level 3. You won't really lose out on BAB up to 3 and can gain another feat, speed and an ability.

Monk of the Empty Hand allows Hestvon to punch others in the face and access to the Catch Off-Guard or Throw Anything feats as a bonus. Now he can’t ever be weaponless.
Now, at this point we can go Barb all the way for pure beat them up! Or we can dip again for extra feats, or extra effects.

For example (EXAMPLE ONLY), we could dip 1 level into Warpriest for the Strength and Travel Blessings. Str for a little boost to attack and Travel to be able to get out of situations. Also able to use wand of less restoration if got fatigue or exhausted.
BUT! This should be a last option cos we already took a hit to our BAB with monk.

Feat options:
Catch Off-Guard, Throw Anything (Weapons are not a problem now.)
Endurance ---> Diehard (For a do or die Hestvon)
Toughness, Stalwart ---> Improved Stalwart, Fast Healer (More toughness)

Improve Grapple/(Other combat manoeuvres) If you want to start grappling,etc
Weapon focus (Bow/club/etc)
Improvised Weapon Mastery

Point Blank Shot + Precise Shot - take if you want to go more range or throw stuff better.

Traits:
Berserker of the Society - If you dip monk, lets grab a couple more rage rounds.
Adopted ---> Enlightened Warrior
Anything else you feel fits your story, after all that is what traits are for.

Regardless of your choices, lets review what Hestvon can do now (to varying degrees base on your choices):
1) He can beat monsters to death with a club, fists or anything in hand (Check! Fist to club to anything at hand)
2) He is very strong (Check! He is quite strong for a halfling. 16 Str at level 4 + 4 (rage) + 2 belt gives a 22 Str when raging.)
3) He is good with a bow (Check! He can pull off basic shots with a bow, with a dex of 14. Think more of Hercules vs the Stymphalian birds and less of a pure archer)
4) He wears the skin of the Nemean lion aka DR (Check! Barb will give him some or a lot more if Invulnerable Rager.)
5) He is good at wrestling (Possible, just having the Strength Surge Rage power would help with this.)
6) He is very tough (Pull all class points into HP and with diehard, you die only if an enemy takes out all your hp.)
7) He is not stupid, cunning even (Well… this depends, but you have 4 skill points and good will saves with rage and monk level dip. So you are much better off than most.)

Hope all this helps. Its not really a complete build, but the ideals are all there, hopeful you can take it further and complete it.

Lantern Lodge

Lol, I saw monk on your list. The default monk is kinda balanced, but the monk archetypes are a different matter.
Zen Archers have high AC and Offense and range and teleport! :o.

Ok, back on topic. On the Barb being unbalanced to the rest of a party. (I'm avoiding Systh as that one really feel imba, mainly due to the fact it gets to fly non-stop AND pounce kill.)

Looking at your examples, I feel that the reason the Barb feels imbalanced, is due to how specialize it is.
The Barb is a specialized attacker and it is given choices that allow it to perform its role very well.

In many ways it can be compared to how powerful a slumber hex specialized witch is. Or a tetori monk when it comes to grappling.

Its this feeling that the Barb is like a one trick pony that is VERY good in that one trick, that is throwing you off and giving the impression that it is imbalanced.

Your examples, all are more "balanced" as they can perform a wider range of roles, and a wider range of weaknesses. Barbs have a very limited and easy to notice role (attack, whack, whack, enemy dies) and glaring weaknesses, no way to self-heal, low AC, bad vs range, can't deal with fly, invis, concealment easily, etc.

Don't allow how clear cut and simple the Barb is to mislead you to believe that it is imbalanced. The Barb is balanced with its own weaknesses and problems.

Lantern Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Marthkus wrote:
Secane wrote:
Marthkus wrote:
Secane wrote:
@Marthkus, I'm getting the sense that someone played a barb and took all the glory in some games and that gave you a bad impression of the class.
I was thinking of "fixes" I could give the fighter, but I ran into the problem of how overpowering the barbars options are, that anything I wrote for the fighter that could compete was too OP, considering that barbars do not "have" to pick those options.

In a straight up fight, I have seen a CRB+APG only Fighter took on an Optimized reach Barb (With superstition and other rage pounce powers) and won.

The fighter was just a pure, even old-fashion, crit build. (Not sure if the fighter did a 1 lv dip into cleric...)

I truly thought Barbs are OP for quite a while, but with more games played and ran, I realize that Barbs are just an OK class. They slightly more powerful at lower levels, but balances off later.
There are just many vastly more powerful classes and options out there. (And I don't mean the pure spellcasters. I mean other martial or low spell casting classes like paladins.)

No-one can match the fighter in trading full attacks. Unfortunately the game is so much more than that.

Barbarians aren't OP, but they sure are imbalanced.

I think to understand this better, we need a baseline to compare to.

Therefore, which class would in your opinion, be considered a balanced class?
(Just so that we can understand in what ways the barb is unbalanced, when compared to other classes that have a similar role.)

Lantern Lodge

Hummm.... well... can't you just go pure halfling instead of aasimar?

Cos... it kinds of defeat the purpose. An aasimar (small-sized or not) is surely much better then a halfling stats wise for a strong man build. Not to mention an angel-blooded, with bonuses to STR and Cha. Thats a +4 Str over a halfling right out of the box.

If you are going aasimar, there are already a ton of Barb and fighter and other high str builds out there... that is perfect for an Aasimar. Why even bother asking?

In short, I'm disappointed. I saw an interesting thread tittle and feel con by the mis-leading race selection.
A pure halfling Str build would have been VERY interesting. Another Aasimar build... not so much.

Lantern Lodge

Marthkus wrote:
Secane wrote:
@Marthkus, I'm getting the sense that someone played a barb and took all the glory in some games and that gave you a bad impression of the class.
I was thinking of "fixes" I could give the fighter, but I ran into the problem of how overpowering the barbars options are, that anything I wrote for the fighter that could compete was too OP, considering that barbars do not "have" to pick those options.

In a straight up fight, I have seen a CRB+APG only Fighter took on an Optimized reach Barb (With superstition and other rage pounce powers) and won.

The fighter was just a pure, even old-fashion, crit build. (Not sure if the fighter did a 1 lv dip into cleric...)

I truly thought Barbs are OP for quite a while, but with more games played and ran, I realize that Barbs are just an OK class. They slightly more powerful at lower levels, but balances off later.
There are just many vastly more powerful classes and options out there. (And I don't mean the pure spellcasters. I mean other martial or low spell casting classes like paladins.)

Lantern Lodge

I don't see how Barbarians are OP or unbalanced.

I mean I used to think so too... there were Barbarians ruling the combats in my local PFS for a while.
That is until I see builds like 1) any archer build, 2) gunslingers, 3) Druids/multi-classes that can throw out 6 natural attacks, 4) a Fighter that uses only the CRB and APG to criti his way to out-DPR barbarians, 5) mutli-class builds and paladins with a ton of saves, 6) paladins that can heal from 1hp to full hp as a swift action, 7) grapplers that can grapple a barbarian and keep the Barb down forever ...etc...

Seriously, barbrians are oh so good, until... they start facing stuff they can't hit (fog, fly, invis). Or start taking so much damage, they have to withdraw, even as the Paladin or Battle Cleric tank on.

Not to mention Barbs are so in need of support. If they can't down a enemy in a couple of turns, they are usually screaming at the Cleric for heals.

An archer flying can shoot the crap out of a Barb. And lets not even think about barb DR. Cluster shot got that covered.

@Marthkus, I'm getting the sense that someone played a barb and took all the glory in some games and that gave you a bad impression of the class.

Lantern Lodge

I don't really quite understand the problem here. If its a pure knowledge skill race we are talking about, an Oracle of Lore can beat the Bard, 9 out of 10.

Focused Trance (Ex) alone, can make Bardic knowledge cry with out of combat knowledge checks. Throw in Lore Keeper (Ex) and Think On It (Ex) and bards start feeling very mediocre with knowledge checks.

Like Alexandros said, Bardic knowledge is pretty good for a bard, and really do help them be good knowledge monkeys, but its hardly overpowered.

Lantern Lodge

That is a very broad question. Could you give us some more info on what you would like to play as?

As in:
- What kind of character would like to play as?
- What role/s do you see yourself fulfilling?
- Are there any factional character you like?

Need more info for character concept that suits YOU.

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