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Contract Devil

Sebastian Hirsch's page

Goblin Squad Member. RPG Superstar 8 Season Star Voter. Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Maps Subscriber. FullStarFullStarFullStarFullStar Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg. 2,614 posts (2,968 including aliases). 2 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 25 Pathfinder Society characters. 1 alias.


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Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Jared Thaler wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

Jared to be fair my -1 was a primal companion hunter before it was made illegal / I noticed that it was illegal.

I am somewhat invested ^^

Primal companion hunter isn't illegal. (Hmm... May have been. I think it was one of the ones that was rereleased as legal after they fixed some rules. That would suck.)

Jup went to my first PFS event (2 days of PFS goodness, starting with Bonekeep 3 ) and learned afterwards that it was not illegal (I might have missed it in the doccument, or I was hit by a timed additional resources update).

After the archetype received a relatively huge change in the second printing it was added as legal again...so now I just have to somehow the the eldritch archer legal. ^^

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Kifaru wrote:

What about going a session without your AC? Can you temporarily release an AC for a session or two? I had my AC "die" last session, but quick work with my first aid gloves and a breath of life brought him back.

Thematicly, I thought it would be interesting to "free" my AC for a while to allow it to decide if it wants to continue this dangerous life or go back to spending his golden years in the jungle.
But there is no mechanic for bringing back a released companion.

You can always elect not to bring your AC to a mission, the Grande Lodge in Absalom has plenty of space for animal companions, and staff to make sure that they don't eat each other.... and some of the wilder Society members apparently also elect to lodge there, most of them not behind bars.

But you can't get temporary animal companion for that time.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Nefreet wrote:
I heard there was a sportsball game earlier today.

Wasn't it a heavily nerved version of Bloodbowl ?

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Jared to be fair my -1 was a primal companion hunter before it was made illegal / I noticed that it was illegal.

I am somewhat invested ^^

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Jared Thaler wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
If I think of the same template as you do, I think that one should be resolved one way or another unless you rematurely ended the scenario, which enters a different grey area (What do you do if the only survivor of a TP, who hidden himself in a dungeon room, whats to end the scenario...or even worse, what do you do if the player has to leave in the middle ob bloody combat? ) .

Well, it says that the template is permanent if it reduces your Int or Cha to 2. There are mixed opinions as to if that refers to the conclusion or not. But as you said, if the PCs fail to resolve that adventure...

Aparently there is also one that results in your character being reincarmanted into an azlanti. Which isn't even a template, but still has to be cleared... (And that is the utter limit of what I know about that one. I haven't played the scenario, let alone GMed it, and don't know which one it is._

template spoiler:

The last sentence in the sidebar should resolve this, if you have the temple, it will get worse (every day) until it becomes permanent.

"
At the start of each day, a bestial creature takes an
additional 2 points of Int and Cha damage to a minimum
of 2; a bestial creature whose Int or Cha reaches 2 cannot
remove the template except with a break enchantment
spell, and all ability damage becomes permanent. Such a
character is removed from play in the Pathfinder Society
Organized Play campaign at the conclusion of the scenario."

Which should resolve in a dead character, even the bit in the conclusion is kinda harsh for a low level scenario:

"
CONCLUSION
If the PCs defeat the Briar Henge druids and remove the
Atavistic Splinter from Briar Henge before sundown on the
second day, the effects of the druids’ ritual are immediately
reversed. Afflicted PCs lose the bestial simple template,
and all ability damage heals normally. If the PCs return to
Wispil by way of the logging camp, the surviving loggers
greet the PCs as heroes, thanking them for removing
the terrible affliction. Venture-Captain Brackett accepts
the Atavistic Splinter from the PCs and promises that the
Pathfinder Society will put the artifact to good use in the
upcoming Ruby Phoenix Tournament in Goka.
If the PCs do not defeat the druids and remove the
Atavistic Splinter from Briar Henge before sundown on the
second day, the effects of the bestial simple template are
permanent and characters afflicted by the condition must
remove the template with a break enchantment spell or be
removed from play."

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Jared Thaler wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:


Okay, following that line of reasoning, if after the scenario my character changes his religion (because oh shock, killing several cultists of my own god has shown me, that he is kind of a bastard) now my warpriest can not longer use at least one of his blessings (and we do have a FAQ for that), is that a condition?

I would say it is more similar to retraining. But yes, if someone wanted to say it is a condition, I could see that, and I would say the FAQ you quoted explains how to clear it. (Switch your god, pay for atonement if needed, and some items of your character stop working. Condition is now resolved.)

Now if you switched your god, but didn't pay for an atonement, that is a whole seperate grey area. (see the various "If a paladin falls and does not atone, is he retired" debates.)

The hunter thing might be annoying, but I really suggest that this isn't worth the trouble to argue with the conditions gained area of the guide (I suspect that the next version of the guide will be improved or at least generate a couple of new supplementary FAQs), this since that might result in some unintentional conclusions.

And since they nerved the worm aspect of the verminous hunter, even less players will take this route.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Jared Thaler wrote:
kinevon wrote:
Jared Thaler wrote:
kinevon wrote:
Jared Thaler wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Nothing there remotely hints that you HAVE to replace it. At all. How is the replacement handled assumes that there IS a replacement. Not telling you that there must be one.

Mechanics wise all you skip is a round of "ATTACK THE DEATH DEMON MY CHINCHILLA MINION!" splat

Quote:
You are getting always on aspect + minute long summons. This is far more power than you get by switching to feral hunter, making the archetype more or less pointless.

The archtype does other things at higher levels. It just makes it bad for dipping. Lots of archetypes have that problem. (and martials in general now have almost no reason not to be minmaxed fruit smoothies)

I think this is the second or third time you and I have debated this topic. We failed to reach agreement last time also. We have both made our cases at this point. Lets leave it at that. While I defer on you to most things regarding ACs, this one is going to require a FAQ or PFS clarification to bring us to agreement. In all the times I have had this arguement with you and others on this board, no one has had a response to "Conditions must be cleared" other than "A dead AC that gives me 10X duration on summons and always on animal aspect isn't a mechanical condition." Which I will be generous and characterize as less than convincing.
How is a dead Animal Companion a "condition"? Much less a condition that must be cleared?
It mechanically modifies your character. Thus it is a mechanical condition. Are you saying that something is only a condition if it is called a condition in the description? In other words if I come to the table with the template in the post before this one (note that is a template, not a condition) that is legal?

I'm sorry, how is a dead animal companion a condition? Please explain how it is a condition? I do not understand how it is a condition.

Is your PC

...

If I think of the same template as you do, I think that one should be resolved one way or another unless you rematurely ended the scenario, which enters a different grey area (What do you do if the only survivor of a TP, who hidden himself in a dungeon room, whats to end the scenario...or even worse, what do you do if the player has to leave in the middle ob bloody combat? ) .

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Jared Thaler wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Jared Thaler wrote:

Well, I am not a jerk. I would inform them that their GM was mistaken, and they need to take an AC, not just auto dead them.

I agree, auto deading someone would be excessive.

But thats not quite the case. You BELIEVE that they need to take another AC. Your position seems to be in the minority. You're trying to make a ruling for things that are largely not at your table: the table from before you and the table after and you really don't have the grounds to do that. Nothing they're doing is blatantly illegal. Auto deading people isn't just "Excessive" you simply can't do it.

You are trying to take that step for no purpose as far as i can determine. the hunter can just send Mayfly XXIV into combat and get the reward they're after.

No, I believe they have to clear conditions. This is a condition. If you come to my table with an uncleared condition from a previous table, I will make you clear it.

For example, there is a scenario that gives you -4 Int and Charisma, +2 Con, +1 natural armor, a bite and 2 claws. If this reduces your Int or Cha to 2 or below, that stat is now 2 and the template is permanent.

If you come to the table with that template, I will inform you that your GM was incorrect, and you need to pay to have the template removed.

Okay, following that line of reasoning, if after the scenario my character changes his religion (because oh shock, killing several cultists of my own god has shown me, that he is kind of a bastard) now my warpriest can not longer use at least one of his blessings (and we do have a FAQ for that), is that a condition?

FAQ wrote:

What determines if my character can be a “worshiper” of a deity?
As a character, you may choose to worship a single deity or pantheon (the “deity”). If you worship a pantheon, you do not count as worshiping every god in that pantheon; you must choose one deity from that pantheon for the purpose of gaining mechanical benefits.

Your character’s alignment must be within one step of that of the deity he or she worships. Any character with levels in a class that grants spells or other features from a specific deity must worship that deity.

A character may only worship one deity at a time; the character may change which deity she worships between sessions at no cost. If this change requires the character to change alignment, the character is required to pay for an atonement. Any element incompatible with the new deity no longer functions. These elements may be retrained at normal cost using the rules from Ultimate Campaign.

For example, a cleric of Desna with the Travel and Luck domains and the Butterfly Sting feat switches her worship to Shelyn. The cleric may still use the Luck domain because Shelyn grants that domain, but not the Travel domain or the Butterfly Sting feat, because worship of Shelyn does not grant access to those features.

The post mentions between sessions, but that just shifts the burden to the next GM, so is not being able to use your feats a condition, and does it have to be resolved or the character has to be reported dead?

The same might be relevant for trait.

I think that particular chapter in the guide might benefit from some attention, irrelevant of the current discussion.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Jared Thaler wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:


Quote:
If a druid releases her companion from service, she may gain a new one by performing a ceremony requiring 24 uninterrupted hours of prayer in the environment where the new companion typically lives. This ceremony can also replace an animal companion that has perished.

That makes it pretty clear that your character has to DO something to get the new animal, not something that just shows up or you can force the player to do in between sessions (when its not even your table)

PFS FAQ:

How is the replacement of a dead familiar, animal companion or paladin’s or cavalier's mount handled?

If you lose a companion during the course of a scenario, work with your GM for that scenario to properly note the loss on your Chronicle sheet. You should also note that you’ve gained your new companion. The new companion is ready for play in the next scenario after your previous companion died. Newly summoned animal companions begin play knowing a number of tricks equal to the bonus tricks granted based on your druid level. All other tricks require the use of Handle Animal to train the new animal companion as normal.

Gaining a new companion is not optional.

Flavor Wise The hunter's bond to their animal companion is part of their bond to nature. A hunter who has decided not to have an AC is a hunter who has forsaken a significant part of their bond to nature.

Mechanic Wise You are getting always on aspect + minute long summons. This is far more power than you get by switching to feral hunter, making the archetype more or less pointless.

Conditions Must be cleared Having a dead companion is a condition with a mechanical effect. (always on aspect and 1 minute / level summons) and therefore must be cleared by end of game.

You want always on aspect, take feral hunter.

I have to agree with the scary wolf, the feral hunter archetype does other things, it just so happens that for a large number of builds the one level dip into the traditional hunter will be better.

And the FAQ seems to imply that the character actually wants to replace a familiar/animal companion, however in the case of some of the rarer animal companions/familiars might actually not be what the player wants, since they might want to purchase something like a raise companion.

And forcing the character to take a new companion, might cause some RP problems, if the character wants to grieve for a level or two.

Actually the flavor bit, is something I would like to refute, taking the aspect of nature into yourself to fight for whatever cause you have taken (and not bringing poor animal companions into inhospitable environments) isnt, exactly something that scream that you have stopped to venerate nature.

The mechanic bit is, frankly not something I am too worried about, not when 1 consider what a 1 level dip into a mutagenic mauler gives you (mutagen, 1 BAB, 2 good saves, improved unarmed strike damage, brawlers cunning...).

The conditions cleared arguement, well I can see this going several ways, it is a class feature that gives a conditional effect if something else happens, and after the discussion about the word "character", well you can't report the animal companion as dead, but you should note it on the chronicle sheet.

This issue will likely not be resolved without some developer/campaign leadership input, but let's just say that one of the best ways to use animal focus can be used with the feral hunter.. but requires more than a couple of levels in the class.

I currently have:

-my -1 a level 12 ranged hunter (currently at kitty number 4 or 5 these days I can raise them, and I bought a farm for them to have a taste of the good live after they retire)

-my another hunter currently level 4 IIRC, melee focused hunter, using teamwork feats and takes the name lion blade slightly to literal. Sovereign court member, fights with falcata and a buckler (taldo style ^^) and will likely be the most effective of all my hunters (getting the ranged combat teamwork feats to work is quite hard) and animal focus is a big issue here.

-my myrchidarch ranged magus has a 1 level dip in feral hunter, since at that time I wanted to toy with animal aspect a bit more, it is an amazing investment, since it allows me to use certain wands without UMD, and it is always nice to have something like evasion or darkvision when you need it.

- my newest hunter is actually my current favorite a qlippoth-spawn tiefling hunter (with the divine hunter, and primal hunter archetypes) with a pretty gut-wrenching backstory. She ended up joing the dark archive, and is promised to enter the Blackros family... which would have been impossible without the help of Mr Bigglesworth her trusty giant weasel (soon celestial^^) companion.

I plan to play her hard mode and not to get a new companion of the GM ever kills her best friend (I do have a plan to bring him back though, by investing the feat to get a familiar, to "reincarnate" him into a slightly less powerful body).

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Lorewalker wrote:
A good example of grey area is the Swarm of Fangs spell. The spell is clear how it works, yet also leaVes enough room to infer it needs a stat block.

Just looked at his spell for the first time... ... yeah I see your point, especially since it lacks a distraction DC.

It's works more like blade barrier than a real swarm...but a swarm bane clasp should protect you... yeah definitely a grey area.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Paul Jackson wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:


There are a LOT of rules in this game. I don't think any two DMs are going to agree on all of them.

I don't think a GM ever completely agrees with himself from day to day :-(.
I believe the same thing Monday that i believed on Wednesday regardless of what i learned on Tuesday!

And people ask why we don't have time machines yet, forum arguments would get quite confusing ^^

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

jmclaus wrote:

Thanks. Was pretty sure it was legal but I didn't see anything specific one way or the other in FAQ so just wanted to double check.

I'm actually planning dipping a level into hunter and never having an animal companion so that I can have 2 aspects at once.

Your animal companion needs to be dead (and one of those aspects will only be available for a limited time), I would prefer the same option as the pregen hunter has available (just not to bring my fishy to the mountains) but the wording of the second edition of the ACG didn't work out that way.

EDIT: I am not happy with this, not happy at all, but I have a character with a similar concept who is rolling with that particular gut punch.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Finlanderboy wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:

Ok, now you are starting to become antagonistic again. Please stop attacking me just because I may have made a mistaken statement. I am not a computer or an encyclopedia and cannot possibly know every rule perfectly all the time. If someone shows me text that shows I'm wrong, I'm a reasonable person, and will follow the rule.

Please stop asserting that I'm one of those unreasonable GMs because I may have gotten a rule wrong while arguing from my phone while in bed at 6:30 am on a Sunday morning.

The topic is not about GMS who has made egregiously been wrong. The topic is about reasonable people coming to a reasonable consensus on how to deal with grey areas at the table.

You are playing a false victim. You had almost 7 hours to fact check my statement. But you and your 5 stars are so omniscient on the rules and an authority you NEVER took the time to double check my statement.

To be fair I did check it, and frankly this is one of those areas where the formatting of the CRB is less than ideal.

Uncanny Dodge wrote:

Uncanny Dodge (Ex)

Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action (see Combat) against her.

If a rogue already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

When you read this ability, it is easy to read this as "you are immune against the negative effects of being flat-footed when someone attacks you" caught seems to be the culprit here.

The condition description in the back of the CRB doesn't mention it againt, if this issue comes up again show them the following text on page 178 of the CRB:

page 178 wrote:

Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a

chance to act (specif ically, before your f irst regular turn in
the initiative order), you are f lat-footed. You can’t use your
Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while f lat-footed. Barbarians
and rogues of high enough level have the uncanny dodge
extraordinary ability, which means that they cannot be
caught f lat-footed. Characters with uncanny dodge retain
their Dexterity bonus to their AC and can make attacks
of opportunity before they have acted in the f irst round
of combat. A f lat-footed character can’t make attacks of
opportunity, unless he has the Combat Ref lexes feat.

EDIT:Posted my reply before reading Andrews's post.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Finlanderboy wrote:
Jared Thaler wrote:

Anyway, back on topic.

I have not seen any arguement that would convince me so far that Animal Companions can worship gods.

I think it is pretty clear that other CFEs who are sapient can.

So an AC can take ranks in Kn. religion and know all about gods. Although revering one they deeply know is not kosher?

Seems so, of course you can still teach your snake to put her ranks into profession: basket weaving, or you could train your T-rex to put ranks into profession driver... or let your wolf become a professional shepherd... or your hippo to become a courtesan....

There are plenty of silly combinations, you can teach your animal companion to understand (but not read) thassilonian, and several other dead languages... and it won't do a thing to make those handle animal checks easier.

Even with 22 Int, you pet tiger will still not perform the action you command it to do, if you fail you handle animal check.

The animal companion rules aren't the best part of the CRB, they scale weirdly, and handle animal adds another layer of complexity.
That's just the way things are, and I suspect that a couple of PFS rules were intended to make them a little bit less useful (take up less time in the spotlight).

When it come back to the issue, expect table variation is still the current suggestion.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Researching the debate gave me headache, I have my own opinion on the matter (but I play to many hunters to be impartial when it comes to this), regarding the debate, I think, it would be reasonable to give the player/animal companion a replacement feat for the duration of the session, if the GM comes to a conclusion that something doesn't work (but the issue anything but clear cut).

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Jared Thaler wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Lorewalker wrote:


Unless we redefine them as PCFs(player class features) or NPCFs(non-player class features), instead of PCs and NPCs.
It seems that unfortunately the FAQs use the term character for player characters and for creatures, depending on the context.

The correct acronym is CFE. "Class Feature Entity."

This was established by John Compton in the discussions of positive and negative boons for CFEs and retraining CFEs.

Yeah but that term is relatively recent, and I just checked the CRB and the PFS FAQ for the word character. It is however a pretty good description, and I reread Johns posts on the issue yesterday.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

It happened to me to, try reporting something and see if you can generate them after that point.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Lorewalker wrote:
Finlanderboy wrote:
Ragoz wrote:
I'm not sure what the FAQ has to do with this topic actually. The FAQ only does what it says and nothing more. I don't see any mention of creatures that aren't characters so it doesn't apply to the topic.
I agree completely, but I understand how someone can stretch that to other things.

This one is stretched so far as to leave no substance. While a companion is a class feature, that doesn't stop it from being a character as well. A wolf AC is not type(class feature). It is an animal, a character, a feature of a class and many more things on top of that.

You can't somehow take a FAQ explaining that your characters may have only one god, not a pantheon, and must be within a step of their alignment and make it somehow exclude secondary characters.

Unless we redefine them as PCFs(player class features) or NPCFs(non-player class features), instead of PCs and NPCs.

It seems that unfortunately the FAQs use the term character for player characters and for creatures, depending on the context.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

I think that the best way to keep enemies alive, would be to deal a lot of nonlethal damage, if enemies drop unconscious, chances of survival are significantly better.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

1 person marked this as a favorite.

And this is why thread Necromancy is should be an evil act...

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

This might be relevant to the discussion, since animal companions are not characters, they are class features (which is relevant, since John's ruling about using PP to retrain something like the feats of your eidolon):

PFS FAQ wrote:

What determines if my character can be a “worshiper” of a deity?

As a character, you may choose to worship a single deity or pantheon (the “deity”). If you worship a pantheon, you do not count as worshiping every god in that pantheon; you must choose one deity from that pantheon for the purpose of gaining mechanical benefits.

Your character’s alignment must be within one step of that of the deity he or she worships. Any character with levels in a class that grants spells or other features from a specific deity must worship that deity.

A character may only worship one deity at a time; the character may change which deity she worships between sessions at no cost. If this change requires the character to change alignment, the character is required to pay for an atonement. Any element incompatible with the new deity no longer functions. These elements may be retrained at normal cost using the rules from Ultimate Campaign.

For example, a cleric of Desna with the Travel and Luck domains and the Butterfly Sting feat switches her worship to Shelyn. The cleric may still use the Luck domain because Shelyn grants that domain, but not the Travel domain or the Butterfly Sting feat, because worship of Shelyn does not grant access to those features.

posted May 2014 | back to top

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Jared Thaler wrote:
given how many spell effects are blocked by a lead lining, it would be nice to have a cost for lead lining a container.

You have pinpointed the reason, why there might not be a cost for items like these, not being detectable is a pretty expensive magical effect.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

Wasn't asking about Deific Obedience, but I agree, that one would be legal if the others are. Though for a companion, the 3 ranks of religion is actually a very costly requirement.

As for the concept of Sentient, I'm not really sure where that one is defined in the PF RPG. It sure get's thrown around a lot, but I haven't seen it defined clearly in a PF product.

I will note that the animal companions (and familiars) are technically NPCs, so giving them a religion could give the GM reason to have a companion refuse orders if orders are contrary to religion's teachings.

Well..

Someone said wrote:

AWAKEN
School transmutation; Level druid 5
Casting Time 24 hours
Components V, S, M (herbs and oils worth 2,000 gp), DF
Range touch
Target animal or tree touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes
You awaken a tree or animal to human-like sentience. To succeed, you must make a Will save (DC 10 + the animal's current HD, or the HD the tree will have once awakened). The awakened animal or tree is friendly toward you. You have no special empathy or connection with a creature you awaken, although it serves you in specific tasks or endeavors if you communicate your desires to it. If you cast awaken again, any previously awakened creatures remain friendly to you, but they no longer undertake tasks for you unless it is in their best interests.

An awakened tree has characteristics as if it were an animated object, except that it gains the plant type and its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores are each 3d6. An awakened plant gains the ability to move its limbs, roots, vines, creepers, and so forth, and it has senses similar to a human's.

An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (augmented animal). An awakened animal can't serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount.

An awakened tree or animal can speak one language that you know, plus one additional language that you know per point of Intelligence bonus (if any). This spell does not function on an animal or plant with an Intelligence greater than 2.

Thats pretty much the best I could find, other than the type changing bit in the bestiary description of animals and magical beasts.

And the same FAQ I posted before:

Someone said wrote:

Can I improve my companion’s Intelligence to 3 or higher and give it weapon feats?

No. An Intelligence of 3 does not grant animals sentience, the ability to use weapons or tools, speak a language (though they may understand one with a rank in Linguistics; this does not grant literacy), or activate magic devices. Also note that raising an animal companion’s Intelligence to 3 or higher does not eliminate the need to make Handle Animal checks to direct its actions; even semi-intelligent animals still act like animals unless trained not to. An animal with Intelligence of 3 or higher remains a creature of the animal type unless its type is specifically changed by another ability. An animal may learn 3 additional tricks per point of Intelligence above 2.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
It could be argued one way of the other, so expect table variation.

Let's say my Animal Companion takes one of the Deity specific feats. Table variation on this one means the companion could be legal and illegal for PFS. I'm looking for a more exact answer than this.

In example, and these are just examples,

Quote:

To the Last (Combat)

Prerequisites: Diehard, Endurance, worshiper of Gorum.

Benefit: When you are disabled, you are not staggered, though performing standard actions still deals 1 point of damage to you. Taking a full-round action deals 2 points of damage to you.

or

Quote:


Steady Engagement (Combat)

Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Stand Still, worshiper of Irori.

Benefit: If you use Stand Still to prevent an opponent from moving, you may make a disarm or trip combat maneuver against your target as an immediate action.

In both cases there are prerequisite feats and You'd need INT 3+ for access, but they are rules that's you'd need to pre-select for your companion and the companion would need to be a worshiper of the deity to qualify.

The feats animal companions can take, and perform.. well it't a complicated issue, since body shape can enter into the discussion.

Animal companions are supposed to be able to use their feats, but it can become a little strange when those feats require a certain level of decision making (and remember we are talking about animal companions here, where you still need to make handle animal checks).

The feats you mentioned seem fine, if your exclude the worship bit, but since worship is the lynch pin. As a GM I always try to make a ruling (when forced to to so, in the absence of official clarification) that works for similar situation. And I would be hard pressed to allow a non sentient creature to use the following feat.

Someone said wrote:

Deific Obedience

Your reverence for a deity is so great that daily prayer and minor sacrifices grant you special boons.

Prerequisite(s): Knowledge (religion) 3 ranks, must worship a deity.

Benefit(s): Each deity requires a different daily obedience, but all obediences take no more than 1 hour per day to perform. Once you've performed the obedience, you gain the benefit of a special ability or resistance as indicated in the "Obedience" entry for the god to whom you performed the obedience.

If you have at least 12 Hit Dice, you also gain the first boon granted by your deity upon undertaking your obedience. If you have at least 16 Hit Dice, you also gain the deity's second boon. If you have 20 Hit Dice or more, you also gain the deity's third boon. Unless a specific duration or number of uses per day is listed, a boon's effects are constant.

Certain prestige classes gain access to these boons at lower levels as a benefit of their prestige class. If you have no levels in one of these prestige classes, you gain the boons marked as exalted boons. If you later take levels in sentinel or evangelist, you lose access to the exalted boons and gain access to the new boons appropriate to your class. If you ever fail to perform a daily obedience, you lose all access to the benefits and boons granted by this feat until you next perform the obedience.

The core of the issue is "can a non-sentient creature" actively worship a deity.

Usually since you can't be an animal with an Int above 2 it doesn't become an issue, but in this case, it seems to be quite intentional that animal companions are less versatile than eidolons and familiars.

And I just checked the chosen one paladin archetype, that one gives a familiar which is a sentient creature.

Regarding illegal animal companions, in this case it would be reasonable for the GM (if he came to the conclusion that it does not work that way) to forbid your animal companion from benefiting from the feat. It doesn't seem critical enough to make the whole character unplayable.

We are in a a relatively strange place when it comes to animal companions and familiars in PFS, they are supposed to be useful, but it seems to be intentional that they aren't supposed to overshadow other players.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Fromper wrote:

According to the Bestiary, that's the standard for sentience. Normal animals have int 1 or 2, and are limited to being true neutral, because they aren't smart enough to think morally. This includes most animal companions.

But familiars, some special mounts, etc have higher intelligence.

Not sure about the sentience bit when it comes to PFS, especially since animal companions with 6+ INT still require handle animal checks.

EDIT: Found the FAQ, one could argue, that not being sentient prevents an animal companion from having a deity (animal companions are a different issue I guess):

Someone said wrote:

Can I improve my companion’s Intelligence to 3 or higher and give it weapon feats?

No. An Intelligence of 3 does not grant animals sentience, the ability to use weapons or tools, speak a language (though they may understand one with a rank in Linguistics; this does not grant literacy), or activate magic devices. Also note that raising an animal companion’s Intelligence to 3 or higher does not eliminate the need to make Handle Animal checks to direct its actions; even semi-intelligent animals still act like animals unless trained not to. An animal with Intelligence of 3 or higher remains a creature of the animal type unless its type is specifically changed by another ability. An animal may learn 3 additional tricks per point of Intelligence above 2.

posted December 2011 | back to top

It could be argued one way of the other, so expect table variation.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Maps Subscriber

It is an armor enchantment, and thus not available on a neck slot.

Since it can only be applied to light armor, bracers of armor are similarly not an option.

If you want to use this, brawler might be the way to go.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Katanne Bat-Shemis wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
FLite wrote:
Further, there was a question about the summoner spell list, which redid the APG spell list, but left off summoner spells from other books, and it was determined that those spells were still legal, presumably this follows the same rule. (It is not prohibited, and it is not replaced, so it remains as it is)
Actually it was not determined that those spells were still legal. They summoner in unchained has language that specifically states how to determine if spells from other books are still legal.
Pathfinder Unchained wrote:


Summoners gain access to the following spells. Because they aren't always allowed for every type of character, spells from Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Race Guide, Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Monster Codex, and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Mythic Adventures aren't included in these lists. Such spells are cast at the levels indicated in those sources.

Aside from ARG and MC, are there any other sources for legal Unchained Summoner spells?

(I'm creating my first-ever Summoner and have, for the first time ever, found the Archives to be lacking in accurate lists)

You might want to check the player companions that were released after the unchained, all those spells should be on the list of both summoners.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Also, when I tell a player that he needs to own a certain book to use the retraining rules (which he didn't possess) and later become aware that he did change a couple of feats... without even having enough PP to have done so.... well it is all hearsay until the next time I get a chance to audit that character, but some GM instructions need to be followed.

Usually when something is obviously illegal/wrong.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Nohwear wrote:
This is why we need sites like Warhorn.

Yeah, without warhorn (or sites with similar functionality) the work of an organizer cane be quite taxing.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Jared Thaler wrote:
Michael Eshleman wrote:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ta92?Core-Chronicles-L1-Retraining

EDIT:

Specific ruling from Mike Brock:

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lh0h&page=2?Introducing-the-Core-C ampaign#55

Also, it looks like you actually need to play the character in standard to convert it. That is possibly unintended but the guide says "play" not "receive credit for.

If it is unintended, it should be fixed.

I think, that GMs should be free to transfer their unformed GM blobs into the regular PFS campaign, since any limits that apply to core, really don't apply on the GM side.

If it does not create reporting issues, allowing GMs to apply CORE GM chronicles to characters in the regular campaign might motivate players to try GMing.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Some later scenarios are pretty relevant to their factions (school of spirits is a good example), and to be honest, some older scenarios have quite relevant faction missions (The Golemworks incident is a good one) while in other cases, they are .... not quite as good (and sometimes fulfilling one can prevent another player from fulfilling his).

Quite a number of old scenarios could do with a refresh (particularly those that require access to 3.5 material) but something like this takes time.

Faction cards were a good start, and if your players want to associated with the factions, it will happen at some point.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

I think Wounded Wisp is among the very best scenarios for beginners.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Some veils might also be involved ...

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jared Thaler wrote:

No. :)

Okay, more seriously, I would not have a problem with someone describing the cane as a parasol, but Expect Table Variation (TM). What you are doing falls under "Cool, but not technically legal"

Jared is correct, but just in case get a parasol and some string/glue and attach it to your sword cane.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Please not, that Tonya is talking about Character sheets and and similar items, you still need to bring your physical chronicle sheets, and ITs (you will need to be able to add and subtract items, and cross off boons).

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Create water certainly helps, and IIRC the familiar folio had some items for aquatic creatures, not sure how useful they would be for animal companions of that size.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

I use hero lab for 100 % of my characters, and I would not use it as source for ruling, of course I would usually research the issue on the forums in any case, if there is some kind of developer clarification.

But yeah, it is a people problem.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

I tell all my regular and new players how additional resources work, and that they have to own the books to use those options.

But to be honest, that also means that I can usually trust my players, and that some checks and reminders are enough.

It is also, and unfortunate fact, that I don't do enough audits, I hardly have the time find all the mistakes and cases where characters take an illegal option (which is which I often offer to assist players with their character creation, when I am not supposed to run a scenario).

Auditing source material is a rare luxury, and if a player from another region comes to me, wishing to find a game in my area, I will do everything within the rules, to make this possible (this might include talking to their VO, or looking at a pretty picture in of them in front of their hardcover collection).

We recently had to pleasure of having a player from the US in Frankfurt, and while the issue of additional resources was not an issue, in special circumstances like those, you make it possible somehow.

And again, I usually don't have the time to do a full audit, and even if I have the time for one, I would rather take the time to check all the characters. Of course if the player wants to use something, and the source is not available, he can't use it (I have almost every Pathfinder PFS on my tablet though).

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Yeah wall thickness seems to be the deciding factor here, but remember to let the group make stealth checks, if they are close enough to use the item, they might be close enough to get detected.

Frankly most scenarios don't go into a lot of details here, and even without that GM discretion, there are certain scenarios where the item will be of little use.

@robertness, the item from the Advanced Class Guide includes no curse

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Nice to have ^^

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Andrew Christian wrote:
You can certainly use a digital sheet. But you must have a printed sheet if the GM asks to see your character sheet and neither of you is comfortable with the GM handling your electronic item.

Yeah Andrew is correct, that is the current law of the land, IIRC this ruling was made to not force a GM to interact with an expensive piece of electronics to audit a character (and you need to bring your physical chronicle sheets in any case).

Whatever else you do at the table, like using your electronic devices to look up things (like spells/items in your pdfs) is another thing altogether. I think it is a bit unreasonable to prevent people from using their electronic devices at the table, but it's not like I haven't experienced it either. Of course you never know what their are doing.

That's pretty much what the second part of this devolved to, if you a player, and you feel that your personal enjoyment of the game / access to the material was unreasonably limited, that is a perfectly valid point to mention to the organizer.

The very same is true, if you as a GM have to kick a player from your table for disruptive behavior.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

1 and yes it is in addition.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Nefreet wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Did some forum research and a certain Tengu seems to be in all of those threads ^^

12,660 posts in 1,263 days equals pretty much 10 posts/day.

I gotta put 'em somewhere =P

If I ever find out, that you are "just" a 4th avatar of TOZ..... I will be very disappointed in you Steven. ^^

---

But yeah, that's a lot, and I though I had a too many posts here...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Maps Subscriber

Since you make the choice of what you summon when you cast the spell, I fear that the spell will not have the descriptor when you prepare it.

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Nefreet wrote:

I think Sebastian is referring to crafting a PFS houserule (via this document) to make it so they don't "stack".

If he's not, then this discussion belongs in one of the myriad threads over in the Rules Forum asking if they work together or not (they do, btw).

It can be argued about, and frankly this is not the place, but it is one of those issues, wheres we are extremely unlikely to get a FAQ.

EDIT: The argument about stacking boils down to semantics, and without the chance for an FAQ it will likely not be resolved through the regular channels. Call it a pet peeve of mine.

EDIT2: Did some forum research and a certain Tengu seems to be in all of those threads ^^

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

kinevon wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

So if i'm getting the idea correctly

1) PFS directly related stuff no problem

2) Soft cover books: easy/obvious patches

3) Hardcover books/ basic core rules not likely

4) Interactions between several sources... would be lovely.

Here's me hoping for something regarding wayang spell hunter (from a softcover book) and magical lineage.

What kind of something are you looking for? Is there an interaction there that I am not seeing? Both are legal, they are different types of traits, and I don't see any reason they won't play well together, other than, nominally, making metamagic a bit cheap, but no way cheaper than using a metamagic rod, which reduces the metamagic cost to 0 levels, including for things which, normally, take way more.

You could argue, that both traits do the same thing, and thus they don't stack. Unfortunately this particular effect is difficult to phrase as a trait bonus.

Wayang spell hunter and another magic trait (like magical knack) or even spell hunter and magical lineage seems fair game, but stacking them both on the same spell can be quite problematic (of course dazing spell is a major offender here).

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

kinevon wrote:

To be honest, ElterAgo, there are a lot worse combinations that are still legal for PFS.

Dazing metamagic, for instance.
Toppling metamagic, or a medium or better built trip/disarm PC.
Color Spray Oracles
Just for a starter.

O think one of those option really should be removed from organized play, at least the damn metamagic rod...

... was I ever not this jaded ...? ^^

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

I thought as much, of course mistakes can sneak into stat blocks in other ways ^^

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Do you have a specific example ?

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

BigNorseWolf wrote:

So if i'm getting the idea correctly

1) PFS directly related stuff no problem

2) Soft cover books: easy/obvious patches

3) Hardcover books/ basic core rules not likely

4) Interactions between several sources... would be lovely.

Here's me hoping for something regarding wayang spell hunter (from a softcover book) and magical lineage.

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