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Liz Courts:” HULK MAKE PEACE WITH INNER CHILD!!" Liz Courts: "HULK EXPRESS TRUTH CONSTRUCTIVELY." Liz Courts: "HULK ONLY INCREDIBLE AFTER HULK SMASH DESTRUCTIVE PATTERNS!!" Liz Courts: "HULK SMILE!" Cosmo: "HULK MAKE TIME FOR HULK!" Cosmo: HULK CRY IT OUT! CS Erik: HULK DO STRETCHES BEFORE EXERCISE! Robot Chris: HULK DO YOGA EVERYDAY FOR HULK BALANCE Sara Marie: IT NOT FAT IT HULK MUSCLE Cosmo: HULK MAKING HULK BE OK WITH HULK!!!! Robot Chris: HULK WATCH NOTEBOOK, DO NOT JUDGE Blue Chris: HULK LOVE SELF BEFORE LOVING OTHERS Cosmo: HULK WORK THROUGH PUNY BANNER'S ANGER ISSUES!!!!
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Chris Mortika wrote:
First, let me give a bit of background. Back when I was at Wizards, at the start of 3E I worked with Jonathan Tweet on a bunch of advice columns, including an article called "How to Design a Feat." One of the concepts we established was "things should be the same, or they should be different." (And by "different" I mean "very different" so you don't mix up the two.) That concept helps players remember different rules--if rule X is already in the game, and you're creating new rule Y that works a lot like X, you should either (1) make Y work EXACTLY like X, or make Y work differently than X. That way, players can remember that Y works like X, or not accidentally confuse how Y and X work. And if Y feels a lot like X, it's almost certainly supposed to work like X, and things that attach to X should be able to attach to Y. For example, imagine an alternate universe where the PFRPG feat Improved Trip gave a +2 bonus on trip maneuvers, but Improved Sunder gave a +3 on sunder maneuvers, Improved Grapple gave a +4 on grapples, and Improved Disarm gave a +2, and only some of them said you didn't provoke an AOO for attempting the maneuver. That would be incredibly confusing and hard to remember--unless you were a total memory freak, every time you encountered one of those feats you'd have to look up the exact bonus it gave because the listed bonuses were all very similar, and you'd have to look up whether or not it provoked an AOO because there wasn't a clear pattern to which ones did or didn't. Instead, in this universe, all of those feats give a +2, they all let you do the maneuver without provoking an AOO, and all of them give you a +2 to your CMD when defending against that sort of maneuver. Not only does this mean the feats are balanced against each other, but they're consistent and therefore easy to remember. Likewise, all of the +2/+2 skill feats give you +2 to two skills, not +1 to one skill and +3 to another skill. Consistency in rules means you have to memorize fewer specifics and just remember things like "the core skill bonus feats give +2/+2" and "the improved maneuver feats are all +2 offense/+2 defense/no AOO." That helps you play the game and run the game. So when the cleric class has a header section called "Class Features" and under that is an entry that says "Channel Energy," and the oracle class has a section called "Class Features" and under that is an entry that says "Channel: You can channel positive energy like a cleric," and the paladin class has a section called "Class Features" and under that is an entry that says "Channel Positive Energy (Su): ... she gains the supernatural ability to channel positive energy like a cleric," those all are intended to work the same way, even though they're not given identical names. For one, because the paladin and oracle "versions" of that ability tell you it works like the cleric "version" of the ability. For two, because having them all work the same way is simpler and easier to remember than each of them working a different way. Now, given, the oracle gets 1+Chamod per day instead of the cleric's 3+Chamod, and the paladin spends uses of lay on hands instead of a separate X/day allotment, but if you line up a good cleric 5, a life oracle 5, and a paladin 5, and tell each of them to channel a burst of positive energy, all three of them are healing 3d6 to living or dealing 3d6 to undead, DC 10 + 1/2 level + Chamod, 30 ft. radius, no AOO, and so on. Exactly the same. Because it's easier to remember that way. Because it makes the game easier to run that way. And that means things like Improved Channel and Alignment Channel and Extra Channel should apply equally to the cleric, life oracle, and paladin (you'll note for Extra Channel the paladin ability's counting method of uses per day for the feat is slightly diff because the paladin ability is based on using lay on hands, but the net result is the paladin gets +2 uses of channel per day, just like the cleric and oracle). Because to do otherwise means we need different versions of these feats for oracles and paladins because under the strictest interpretation, neither of them has a class ability that's specifically and explicitly named "channel energy;" and three sets of redundant identical feats for clerics, oracles, and paladins is lame and a waste of space. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. If you line up Daffy Duck, Donald Duck, Duckman, and Howard the Duck, from a game standpoint it makes sense that a +1 duck-bane arrow is going to do +2d6 damage in addition to normal arrow damage if you shoot any of them, because they're all ducks. And if you shot that arrow at "Duckie" from Pretty in Pink, it wouldn't get any bonus damage, because he isn't a duck. And you should be able to see why those first four are ducks and the last one isn't. And if for some reason two things that seem almost the same (like "channel energy" vs. "channel" vs. "channel positive energy") shouldn't act exactly the same, count on us to tell you how it is different. For example, take the necromancer "power over undead" ability; you can't heal or harm with it, but you can use Command Undead or Turn Undead with it (both of which are based on channeling), and can take feats that augment those two applications, but not feats that alter your purpose away from undead. So, necromancers get an ability that works just like channel energy, except (1) it always works like Command Undead or Turn Undead (i.e., no heal-harm aspect), and (2) can't ever be used on something other than undead. Does the necromancer have an ability called "channel energy"? No. Does it let you do stuff that clerics with Command Undead or Turn Undead can? Yes. In those cases, does it work exactly like channel energy modified by those feats? Yes. Does it make sense that the necromancer can use feats and abilities that rely on channel energy as long as the feat or ability augments their power over undead? Yes. So if there was a "Prerequisite: channel energy class feature" feat that increase the number of d6s you healed or harmed, would you let a necromancer take it? No, because their channel never heals or harms. If there was a "Prerequisite: channel energy class feature" feat that increased the number of HD of undead you could command or turn at one time, would you let a necromancer take it? Yeah, because that sounds exactly like something the necromancer should be able to do with his channeling ability, as it's something a Command Undead/Turn Undead cleric ought to be able to do it. What about a channel feat that changed the area from a sphere to a cone? Sure, because you could see a Command Undead/Turn Undead cleric taking that feat. Sometimes rules aren't going to have the exact same name or wording.
Could the game be more "perfect" by using exactly the same terminology? Yes, mostly. But I think holding that up as some kind of ideal is a pipe dream. Even programmers, who copy a subroutine from one part of a program to use as a model in a different part, still make changes sometimes, either because they better understand how the coding works since they wrote the original sub, or something unique is needed for that sub in the new location, or whatever. But, as Monte says, "the DM is not a robot." Players aren't robots, either. And as James Wyatt says, "You can never write a rule that is so clear that *everyone* understands it." Skip Williams used to get Sage Advice questions like, "Do I have to take Power Attack before I take Cleave?" Obviously the answer is "yes"... but it wasn't obvious to that reader, for some reason. Now, that's a very simplistic example, and the "channel energy class feature" prereq is not a simplistic example, but I think you get the gist of it: sometimes you're going to have to make rulings based on how you think the rules fit together. Sometimes it's more obvious than others how those rules fit together, but if they seem to have the same root, it's better to assume they're supposed to work the same way than to doubt your own ability to realize the similarities between them. If "channel energy" and "channel positive energy" and "channel" aren't all class features (even though they're all listed in the "Class Features" part of their respective class writeups, and even though the book never defines exactly what a "class feature" is, although each class's "Class Feature" entry does say "The following are class features of the [class]" or even "All of the following are class features of the [class]"), you'd have to wonder why the Core Rulebook didn't include paladin versions of Improved Channel and Turn Undead that have "channel positive energy" as a prerequisite. And you'd have to wonder why consecrate boosts cleric channel energy DCs but not paladin channel positive energy DCs (the spell specifically says "The DC to resist positive channeled energy..." which probably means a cleric channeling positive energy, but is unclear if that also means a paladin's "channel positive energy" ability). And so on. When, realistically, it makes sense that paladins should be able to take Improved Channel, and that consecrate should affect paladin channel DCs just as well as it affects cleric positive channel DCs. And likewise for life oracles. And necromancers. Things should be the same, or they should be different. (To be continued, as I don't want to lose this post....) (Actually, I'm going to bed, I'll address the other points tomorrow!) On why you *shouldn't* do certain Google image searches...
Robot Chris I think we might need helmets tomorrow, or the redacted is going to just take our brains. Erik K Cosmo's punching a few redacteds that deserve to go into the special filing cabinet. So my sanity is stable for now. Robot Chris So... what you're saying is Cosmo might be *less* stable than usual? I think we might need the helmets anyway in that case. Erik K I have a motorcycle helmet at home for the zombie apocalypse, I'll just cover it in tin foil. Robot Chris Good call. Today Vic requested a limerick from Cosmo and accidentally set off a Limerick Rap Battle. COSMO
SUTTER
The poet, you see, was a snob
COSMO
A Limerick battle, in the works
SUTTER
Guys, as long as these miniatures are based on Adventure Paths, we're going to pick the appropriate creatures to run the campaign, whether they're humanoids OR monsters. I get it. I get that a lot of people don't want any more humanoid miniatures. So noted. But you're going to get loads more of them over the next several years, so harping on the issue is not going to change much. You're also going to get TONS of monsters. TONS of creatures you do not already have, and TONS of creatures that have never been made before in plastic. Be patient, please. This is not a one-and-done thing. This is a set of miniatures designed to support a complete campaign that involves monsters AND humanoids. We are in this for the long haul. If this strategy does not appeal to you, I invite you to purchase singles. When I first started posting on the Paizo messageboards a Long Time Ago, one of the reasons that really pulled me in to the community was seeing the staff write-ups of their own game experiences. Now I'm returning the favor—enjoy! Also... SPOILERS AHOY!
1 Arodus, 4711 AR: Sandpoint and Brinestump Marsh, Varisia
After encountering three giant leeches at a bridge crossing, the party finds the warden's shack, but something very curious is going on. Walthus does not appear to want visitors, which might be normal for a hermit, but there's something distinctly off about him. While Keisos, Ing, and Paza talk with the halfling, Blade decides to scout around back and enter in a window, only to find that he's entered into a literal snake pit. When Keisos, Ing, and Paza see Walthus's features ripple, Keisos grabs the halfling, but "Walthus" changes into a horrible creature with a long, rasping tongue. While Blade fights off the enormous snakes, the party engages "Walthus" in combat. Several snake bites and tongue gouges later, the party defeats "Walthus." Hidden in a nearby room, the real Walthus stumbles out, in bad shape but in good humor. He invites them to all stay overnight in his shack and enjoy a hot meal (it's the least he could do) while he compiles some information on how where the goblins live in Brinestump marsh. XP earned: 400 each
Mark Moreland wrote:
*All positions not guaranteed a cardboard fort. Some restrictions apply. Cosmo wrote:
Jason wrote:
On the Upstairs Refrigerator, and the horrors that lie therein... . . Red Chris, The Robot: I'm tempted to add "Check the fridge for civilizations" to my calendar as a monthly appointment :\ Erik, The CS Algorithm: would they revere us as gods or would they fear us and plot our downfall... Red Chris, The Robot: well, as a robot, these things are interchangeable Chris Self: [redacted] uses Stack of Contracts on Paizo's Bank Account! It's super effective! Crystal: Paizo's Bank Account's defense fell sharply Chris Self: I'm checking its hit point total right now Robot Chris: Chris Self has feinted. [redacted] takes half his money. Chris Self wakes up in hospital. Erik Keith: Paizo Bank Account thrashes about violently, critical hit! Erik Keith: Paizo Bank Account is injured in the process. Crystal: Paizo's Bank Account is confused Gary: I hate waking up in the hospital and they've taken all your weapons and you have to go outside and jack another car Robot Chris: Paizo's Bank Account hits itself in confusion! vic: if you go into labor, just say "AGGGGH! I"M IN LABOR! that will be the clue. I'll run to the kitchen and start boiling water. sara marie: but thats gary's job! vic: I'll tear up bedsheets vic: you did bring bedsheets? sara marie: just grab some undefeated t-shirts from the warehouse! vic: gary bought them all
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