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Sheriff Belor Hemolock

Sauce987654321's page

730 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Firewarrior44 wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Jiggy wrote:

It was 7th level, fighter versus wizard. Want to guess who won?

:)
You mean a CR 7 PC wizard can defeat a CR 3 NPC warrior who happens to have a couple of random pluses and an extra couple of feats? Say it ain't so!

It's worse than that because a warrior 7 in Pathfinder is actually a CR 5 creature

CRB, Gamemastering: Adding NPC's wrote:
A creature that only possesses non-player class levels (such as a warrior or adept) is factored in as a creature with a CR equal to its class levels –2
Which also means you get s%#~ like the King NPC , which is apparently a CR 14 creature / foe ...

That CR 14 is more like a CR 6 or 7. That's the worst CR 14 challenge ever.


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MMCJawa wrote:

I don't have it on hand, but when earth was visited in the Baba Yaga AP the trench fighters working with Rasputin were I think level 6 or something.

So a trained well prepared military force would probably not start at level one, but may have a CR range of 5-10.

I remember there being a reason why they were so high CR.

Personally, I don't see the great majority being higher than a 1st level Warrior. You're still proficient with all types of weapons and are still a good shot. I mean, hell, a 1st level warrior with a long bow, 15 dex, and far shot can hit a fine object (like a penny) from 1,000 ft. away 55% of the time. That's pretty impressive.

Edit: It's 40%, not 55%. 45% if it's masterwork. Sorry. Still pretty good, though.


Quote:
To be clear, D completely shrugs off being thrown at near speed of light and impacting with almost infinite mass. he just walks it off. nothing in Pathfinder approaches that level of godliness.

When you say nothing in Pathfinder can do that, do you mean just the PCs? There are a number of monsters, not all necessarily powerful ones, that possess abilities that can ignore all damage upon getting hit. By extension, they would be capable of the same thing.

I forget the particular monsters that have this, but I can find them if someone cares to look.

The whole thing on intelligence, take Display of Intelligence and Flash of Omniscience and you'll be the smartest guy around.

I'm not sure what FTL melee attacks look like, as in what are the bonuses? To me, it just sounds like a high attack roll and called FTL. There are monsters that can move at FTL speeds, such as the Solar Dragon or creatures that have Mythic Time Stop. So there's that. If dodging lasers is anything impressive, anyone could make a 4th level Monk with really high touch AC and avoid all laser attacks fired by a group of trained soldiers surrounding the Monk.


Torbyne wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
Torbyne wrote:

D would be extremely hard to model in Pathfinder... some defining traits about him:

Among the best swordsmen in existence

Wears armor without any apparent encumbrance

Extremely knowledgeable

His left hand can consume supernatural effects and is perhaps even more knowledgeable than D

He has an unsurpassed Will save.

Capable of entering a (psychic?) rage

Capable of feats of amazing athletics

I dont think you can do anything like that without Gestalting or being a GMPC.

I think you can get a lot of those down with a Mutation/Eldritch Guardian Fighter, at least the weapons, armor, rage-like ability, (tumor?) familiar and use the mutagen as a rage stand in. Make your familiar a Sage to cover knowledges and grab some extra mutagen effects to pad out his athletic capabilities. It call it close to the concept at least.

I don't know about the whole "hand" thing, but your basically saying someone who can wear armor well and is a great swordsman who is also knowledgeable, athletic, and has strong will can't exist in pathfinder without help from the GM? Haha, what?
I am not sure you are familiar with the character in question, its a combination of what in pathfinder would be armor training, weapon training, still mind, uncanny dodge, rage, 9th level phsycic casting, improved familiar, bardic lore, trapfinding... that is why it would be difficult to model in Pathfinder. What i was suggesting was taking some of the more common aspects of the character and attempting to copy those.

I'll be honest, I haven't kept up with the character in years, so whatever new things he can do I might not be familiar with.

There are a few things that can be shaved off on your list, though, especially if we go Bloodrager

Armor Training could be substituted for 3 armor masterys if we go mythic. Honestly I'd rather bite the bullet and find some alternative to that, like magic or something.

Weapon Training isn't needed. It just provides a boost to attack and damage, as a Bloodrager has full base and rage.

Still Mind is just +2 against enchantments. You can still have a good will save without it.

Bloodrager has Uncanny Dodge.

Finding Traps is just Perception. If he has a high Perception it's not entirely needed, though he might have to be actively looking for them if he doesn't have something in his spell list.

I get that converting him isn't the easiest thing to do, that's fine. What does peeve me is when people state that he's too powerful for pathfinder mechanics no matter what, even after I prove that point to be wrong.


I understand that it's the friction that makes the object combust. The only real way to represent that is to have a, most likely, moderately high damaging ranged attack that gains fire damage upon being thrown. By the way, it doesn't have to be limited to only +1d6 fire damage.

100 tons for a character, especially with mythic rules, is pretty easy. Display of Strength adds 20, and Mule's Strength adds 5 that stacks with everything including itself. With items it's almost trivial. From what I remember, the 100 ton thing was a guesstimation from his powerful sword attacks. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Checkout Limitless Range, Mythic Far Shot, and Mythic Eagle Eyes. You can literally see and attack with a thrown weapon with maximum attack bonuses from any distance. So like I said earlier, Earth to Pluto, if you wanted to.

He can alter reality now? It depends on what degree, I guess. If it's like Miracle and Wish, two spells that are nearly limitless in potential, then that's easily his most powerful ability listed, so far.


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Yeah, but ultimately that sort of ability is going to translate into something like "deals +xd6 fire damage." I mean how else do you translate it? It's not something your going to earn from having a high strength score, because it's going to have to come from an ability. That's not even impressive from a power perspective. Mythic characters, if made to do so, can literally throw weapons from the Earth to Pluto and hit dead on target (forgot the names of the powers). Doesn't make sense, but those abilities exist.

Barbarians can dispel magic by attacking while raging. That means that a Barbarian can destroy a demiplane of any size by punching it. Again, it's doable.


Johnnycat93 wrote:
The power level in VHD just can't be emulated in Pathfinder. We're talking about a character who throws a wooden stake so fast that it literally lights on fire due to friction with the air - that's simply outside the scope of Pathfinder characters.

That just sounds like a Supernatural Ability (or Extraordinary, doesn't matter) that his thrown weapons can light on fire and deal additional fire damage. Pretty sure there are abilities like this.

I'm know the ability looks cool an all, but it's not all that impressive when put on paper.


Torbyne wrote:

D would be extremely hard to model in Pathfinder... some defining traits about him:

Among the best swordsmen in existence

Wears armor without any apparent encumbrance

Extremely knowledgeable

His left hand can consume supernatural effects and is perhaps even more knowledgeable than D

He has an unsurpassed Will save.

Capable of entering a (psychic?) rage

Capable of feats of amazing athletics

I dont think you can do anything like that without Gestalting or being a GMPC.

I think you can get a lot of those down with a Mutation/Eldritch Guardian Fighter, at least the weapons, armor, rage-like ability, (tumor?) familiar and use the mutagen as a rage stand in. Make your familiar a Sage to cover knowledges and grab some extra mutagen effects to pad out his athletic capabilities. It call it close to the concept at least.

I don't know about the whole "hand" thing, but your basically saying someone who can wear armor well and is a great swordsman who is also knowledgeable, athletic, and has strong will can't exist in pathfinder without help from the GM? Haha, what?


I forgot to mention the Shadow Lord is a template. I guess that only works if your using it as a GMPC or something.


Tyrant Lizard King wrote:
How about Alucard from Hellsing?

If he were built as a PC, I would go with a dhampir Shadow Lord Sorceror 15 levels. I give him 15 levels so he can recreate his fallen enemies with Simulacrum (7th level spell), the ability to Summon Shadow-like hellhounds/dogs/wolves (though Shadow Conjuration can do this on its own), to teleport, shapeshift, control weather etc..

His Base might be a little low (Transformation spell easily helps this), but his many other spells help this.

Not sure on the whole immortal thing, but it's not too much of a worry if you only fight enemies much weaker than yourself.

I disagree with giving him Gunslinger. He does nothing that a Gunslinger can do other than shoot well. Being able to shoot something doesn't mean you have levels in Gunslinger. Proficiency with deadly aim is good enough.

Everyone puts him at like CR 30, but I disagree. He's powerful, but not all that impressive when put on paper. Something like around CR 15 -17 sounds a lot better instead of a CR 30 bloated statblock.


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So we can transport relatively heavy items 2,000 miles instantaneously? That's news to me.

Anyway, since people might not remember, Greater Teleport is unlimited range.


nennafir wrote:

"Regeneration (Ex) No form of attack can suppress a behemoth’s regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If a behemoth fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is dealt to its remains. It can be banished or otherwise transported away as a means to save a region, but the only way to truly kill a behemoth is to use miracle or wish to negate its regeneration (see below)."

Now we just have to decide if behemoths are the exception or the rule...

It seems like the Behemoth's regeneration is exactly like the 3.5 Tarrasque.


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RAI the regenerating creature dies maybe, by RAW if you have regeneration active you don't die. It doesn't matter what regeneration heals or doesn't, it simply states you don't die. So yeah, a troll or something that happens to have 100,000 damage done to it, suffocated, 1,000 negative levels, with 0 in every stat is still alive.


Having guns everywhere is fine as long as a GM doesn't make everyone who wields guns a Gunslinger. There's a rather large difference between being a Gunslinger and simply being proficient in it, which imo, nearly everything should be the latter, if at all.


If you're targeting something as small as an arrow slit, then I don't know where the cover bonus is coming from. It's more appropriate to use the bonus from the size category. Having a cover bonus doesn't even make sense, because you're targeting the opening, not the creature or square.

If we're going by the rules for Damaging Objects, the AC is 10 +8 size -5 dex with an additional -2 for being an inanimate object, making it 11, not 13.

If you can stick your arm through it though, I would say it's diminutive, making its AC 7.


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
The Golux wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
The Golux wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
The Golux wrote:
You're not a god unless you can cast miracle at will as a free action, have at least a 90% chance to negate critical hits from a non-mythic source (75% non-deific source), automatically save versus non-mythic effects, and have magic and damage immunity against non-mythic or deific sources. And at least +40 on all skills.
Why do people WANT 'gods' like this? These aren't characters in the world, they're unapproachable freaks.
Well the Miracle thing is non-negotiable, since any full deity can grant the miracles of any number of worshippers simultaneously.
I get it. You see divine magic as the hand of god. I see it as magic caused by Faith, the object of said faith having little to no relevance.
Not all divine magic necessarily, but Miracle specifically I consider to be an act of a god.
If that was true, it would not be subject to standard restrictions. Gods can grant miracles that are far beyond the scope of that spell.

Miracle doesn't have many restrictions at all, outside of effects that clearly state that miracle can't reverse, which is very few.


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Klorox wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:

So... which feat of Zeus [barring weird procreation things] can't be done by a Level 20 Druid?

Taking down the Titans doesn't qualify as anything special because they're the same general type of god.

'Having an afterlife to syphon souls from' where is this listed and what is it stated to do?

Smiting Titans, that were to the Bestiary Titans what a god is to a human with his lightning to start with... the Titans of Greek Myths were forces of nature more than the overfed giants of the Bestiary, who are their lesser scions.

Pretty sure Titans such as the Elysian Titan Prophet and the Formorian Titans can be used as stand ins for these Titans. The Elysian Prophet can cast as a 20th level Cleric and thus has a butt load of Miracles, and The Formorian has Wish on top on its many Spell like abilities. They can pretty much create any effect using such abilities with GM consent (GM is controlling them, after all) and it would be RAW. It might sound like a cop out to do it this way, but that's what the spells are good at for story purposes in a Campaign setting


Cheburn wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
So... which feat of Zeus [barring weird procreation things] can't be done by a Level 20 Druid?

Shape change into rain? (to be fair, that's a 'weird procreation thing,' but it implies that he could turn into rain whenever he wanted).

Successfully throw a mountain?

Get angry and flood the world, killing nearly everyone, then repopulate the world by turning stones into humans at the request of someone who survived?

Sounds like stuff that's in the Miracle/Wish territory. I don't think Druids get Miracle, do they?


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137ben wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
As been said before... locking the gods into fixed stats makes an official rule which is suitable for some campaigns, and highly unsustainable for others.

Which is why it is being done in the homebrew forum, so that people who want it can use it, and people like you can ignore it. Or, you can just continue spamming the thread with complaints about how people are having BADWRONGFUN.

To the OP: Anywho, I honestly don't know enough about the lore of the characters you are statting to really help. I can, however, point out a previous thread where someone statted the Golarion gods, which might give you some ideas. Keep going though, OP: your work is very enjoyable for me to read.

I can't say I'm too much of a fan of those statblocks. They mostly look similar to existing creatures already except they have bigger numbers with similar divine abilities from 3.5. Inevitably they are going to have larger numbers, but I would expect to see many flashy abilities on top of those big numbers.


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Since I'm seeing the word "mortal" thrown around, I just wanted to point out that it doesn't really matter if a creature's mortal or not when plenty of creatures of CR 18+ happen to be immortal.

It's kind of hard for me to come up with any sort of statblock for a deity, because I honestly have no idea what they are really capable of in the first place. If I knew everything an individual deity can do then it'll be much easier to develop a statblock that's not some generic CR 31+ creature with big numbers.


John Napier 698 wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:

I'm not sure what the fascination is with making nukes and other high tech weapons do billions of damage. I'm not sure how this adds anything to the game, especially when you can create the same effects using much lower numbers with additional effects outside of just pure damage.

Really, a nuke could be like 32d6 Fire and 32d6 Bludgeoning, max damage to unattended objects, topples structures up to a certain quality, and with a radiation effect. Can't say my method above is absolutely perfect, but certainly much better than "billions and billions of damage."

Background flavor, of course. Also, you'd need those billions of hit points to vaporize that very large asteroid that's about to hit a planet full of farmers.

Still don't need that kind of damage to achieve that.

Look at disintegrate, for example, as it can disintegrate a 10-ft square of solid rock (or anything else, really). Its starting damage is 22d6 on a failed save, but it doesn't need to do 1,800 damage to destroy that much rock. The same style of effect could, and really should, be applied to a nuke if that's what they want it to do.


I'm not sure what the fascination is with making nukes and other high tech weapons do billions of damage. I'm not sure how this adds anything to the game, especially when you can create the same effects using much lower numbers with additional effects outside of just pure damage.

Really, a nuke could be like 32d6 Fire and 32d6 Bludgeoning, max damage to unattended objects, topples structures up to a certain quality, and with a radiation effect. Can't say my method above is absolutely perfect, but certainly much better than "billions and billions of damage."


gustavo iglesias wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
it's gigantic, I get that, but its dimension doesn't make sense for it. Its square space is a giant block, but the vehicle is not. Especially considering its square space can be formed in any fashion, going by the book. It shouldn't be fully 60 x 40

Well, the real Tsar Tank was 27 feet high. The one in Rasputin Must Die is 25. It sounds well rounded.

About filling fully the space: unless you are a bloated sumo champion wearing a big floater over a space suit, I doubt you fully fill a 5' x 5' square yourself. And I don't think I'll be able to find a horse who is 10' x 10' wide.

A horse needs probably that much space to move around and fight and turn "in place", and a Tsar Tank will probably need that much space to turn around and move, which means he can't share other creatures squares in that space unless he overruns them.

My point is that vehicles have different rules about square spaces.


gustavo iglesias wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
Why include in a monster like that if the game is going to tell me that I can't fight it?

Who says you can't fight, and beat, a super Star destroyer, a Borg Cube, or a Death Star sized Space Whale????

Those are great challenges! You SHOULD be doing that kind of thibgs!

But you should fight that planet sized alien with your Millenium Falcon turbo blasters or your USS enterprise photon torpedoes. Not with your laser rifle, or your bare hands becsuse you have 2 monk levels

Or just give them hardness 50, but ship based weapons ignore 50 points of hardness
That's more or less what we are suggesting. "Ship scale" weapons having some short of rule to make them necessary to fight ship scale threats. DR\ship is a way. I don't think DR 50 will suffice, tho. A WWI tank in Pathfinder has almost 2000hp.
Hah, there's no way that's a WW1 tank. Did you look at its dimensions? It's the size of a small building.
It's actually a Tsar Tank

it's gigantic, I get that, but its dimension doesn't make sense for it. Its square space is a giant block, but the vehicle is not. Especially considering its square space can be formed in any fashion, going by the book. It shouldn't be fully 60 x 40


gustavo iglesias wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
Why include in a monster like that if the game is going to tell me that I can't fight it?

Who says you can't fight, and beat, a super Star destroyer, a Borg Cube, or a Death Star sized Space Whale????

Those are great challenges! You SHOULD be doing that kind of thibgs!

But you should fight that planet sized alien with your Millenium Falcon turbo blasters or your USS enterprise photon torpedoes. Not with your laser rifle, or your bare hands becsuse you have 2 monk levels

Or just give them hardness 50, but ship based weapons ignore 50 points of hardness
That's more or less what we are suggesting. "Ship scale" weapons having some short of rule to make them necessary to fight ship scale threats. DR\ship is a way. I don't think DR 50 will suffice, tho. A WWI tank in Pathfinder has almost 2000hp.

Hah, there's no way that's a WW1 tank. Did you look at its dimensions? It's the size of a small building.


MMCJawa wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
stuff

If you were to emulate the deathstar in a pathfinder like game, you would treat the place as location, but give certain key structures like the power core and such hitpoints, and have PC's be able to destroy that.

I mean In Pathfinder, yeah a high level character can kill a Kaiju. But a High level character generally can't wipe out a major city just by swinging his sword at random pieces of ground or buildings.

I will be curious to see how they deal with starship combat, or if a lot of that is just kind of avoided in the same way Pathfinder generally doesn't spend much time on large scale mass combat.

Yeah, targeting weak points in a very large structure or vehicle is how I would handle it. I feel that it's the same way for larger monsters, in some fashion, but completely abstracted. Though I obviously have no issue with a medium creature completely overpowering a planetoid size monster because it's simply too powerful.

Sure, a high level martial has no real ability to swing his weapon a few times to destroy a city, but that just means they would have to take their time, I guess. Destroying cities is not much of an accomplishment compared to some of the things mentioned in certain creatures descriptions. Behemoths, for example, are said to have destroyed entire worlds because they're simply unstoppable. These same creatures can be solo'd by a single powerful PC.

But yeah, that's pretty much my whole opinion on big stuff, haha.


gustavo iglesias wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
Colossal is the maximum size category, the only thing that changes from there on is size and reach, which is not influenced by CR

Well, the entire point of this conversation is that someone suggested that this should change, because there is too much "room" for colossal to fit all monsters from Godzilla to a planet-sized Green Lantern. I mean, it's the same -size modifier to hit a building or to hit the planet where that building is?

Quote:
Not to mention that a single X-wing destroyed the Death Star. It's not like the X-wing had to be the size of a planet to do this. I know it was a chain reaction, but the end result is still the end result.

It's completelly different to attack a nuclear generator inside a planet sized Battle Station, which can be done by anyone, and then the nuclear reactor exploding, than the same character hacking and slashing the Death Star into pieces.

The Hulk analogy is good, the problem is that players who chose to play with a scoundrel wielding a laser pistol will also be able to destroy planet sized battle stations (or, you know, Absalom itself), assuming the game is somewhat balanced and "scoundrel" and "raging barbarian" classes are in the same ballpark of damage.

I'm totally pro-epic stuff, and I understand that high level characters are close to demigods. I'm tottally fond of high level characters punching Shai Hulud to death, slicing Godzilla into pieces, and sniping Galactus with a single well placed headshot. BUT in a setting so open as this, there are some things that are far beyond that, such as planet-sized creatures, Solar-system sized ships, or Galaxy-sized energy beings older than gods.
Sure, we could handle those by giving them DR 1million\- and sixty million hp, and then making things like the Death Star cannon, or giant sized anti-matter missiles or whatever doing 2 million d6.
But it'll be a lot of die to roll, when it's not needed, imho.

EDIT: said otherwise: by rules, stone has 15hp per inch of thickness....

I'm not saying that characters need the ability to blow up planets and space stations with a pistol, or at all, but if they decide to add in creatures the size of an asteroid they should be beatable. Why include in a monster like that if the game is going to tell me that I can't fight it? That's no better than the GM putting themselves in the game as an enemy, and honestly it's just as lazy and unthoughtful. Now I know you're not telling me that's the way you want it, but that was my main issue when dealing with super sized creatures. Now that little issue could be solved by just not putting them in the game in general, not that I think they were in the first place, rather than have them there and basically say "you want to fight it? Nope. Too big."

I think statting the Death Star cannon is a lot more simple than it seems. While I think the base damage would be very high, I think there would be a lot more description than just pure numbers. I would have it as a high base damage and an object destruction effect on a colossal scale. This type of ruling is not much different than disintegrate. Disintegrate deals a maximum of 40d6, but it can still instantly destroy a 10-ft cube of nonliving matter, such as a stone wall. We all know disintegrate doesn't do 1,800 damage, but it still can destroy that much stone. Another good example is a Great Red Wyrm's melt stone ability that can target a 60-ft radius of stone to melt. The breath weapons base damage 24d10 damage, but it can still melt 21,600 hp worth of rock in one shot.


gustavo iglesias wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
gbonehead wrote:

Independent question: any chance Starfinder will try to address rules for sizes above colossal? Once we're dealing with starships and, theoretially, creatures the size of asteroids, it would be cool to have them actually be different at a fundamental level - kind of like swarms, where they're too small to be harmed by weapons - perhaps creatures above colossal are too large to be harmed by weapons more than 4 size categories smaller. There was a 3.5 book back in the day that had some above colossal rules, ah, Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary.

I seem to recall a mention of an attempt as part of the mythic rules (maybe it was along with kaiju), but with the design team deciding it was too large a task to sneak in. That's based on hazy recollection of old board posts, of course, the reality is probably different.

In any event, it's been a hole since kaiju were introduced; be cool to have it filled.

I would hate if they made larger colossal monsters/kaiju immune to smaller weapons and it wouldn't make sense if they even did that. Your overall ability to harm something should be determined by CR, not what size they are. That's the whole point in having very high AC, DR, and other resistances, to make something seem invincible to weaker creature.

If you don't like the idea that very high level PCs can harm Kaiju-like creatures, it's important to understand these PCs aren't ordinary warriors, like something you would see in a movie like Gladiator or Braveheart. They're godlike beings that are meant to accomplish the seemingly impossible.

Well, Kaijus are probably around Colossal size, or just a bit bigger than that. They should be possible to damage by normal sized heroes, probably.

However, we are not talking about the same scale here. Luke Skywalker destroying a AT-AT with his lightsaber? Totally cool. Luke Skywalkerdestroying the Death Star with his lightsaber? That's enterely different.

Colossal is the maximum size category, the only thing that changes from there on is size and reach, which is not influenced by CR.

As for the Luke example, maybe he's not powerful enough. Just because one popular character can't do something doesn't mean all characters should have this limitation. How about if we replace Luke Skywalker with the Hulk? It seems a lot more possible now.

Not to mention that a single X-wing destroyed the Death Star. It's not like the X-wing had to be the size of a planet to do this. I know it was a chain reaction, but the end result is still the end result.

Understand that I'm not trying to be argumentative, but pointlessly having rules that limits characters like that based on their size makes no sense. Why have a CR system, then?


gbonehead wrote:

Independent question: any chance Starfinder will try to address rules for sizes above colossal? Once we're dealing with starships and, theoretially, creatures the size of asteroids, it would be cool to have them actually be different at a fundamental level - kind of like swarms, where they're too small to be harmed by weapons - perhaps creatures above colossal are too large to be harmed by weapons more than 4 size categories smaller. There was a 3.5 book back in the day that had some above colossal rules, ah, Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary.

I seem to recall a mention of an attempt as part of the mythic rules (maybe it was along with kaiju), but with the design team deciding it was too large a task to sneak in. That's based on hazy recollection of old board posts, of course, the reality is probably different.

In any event, it's been a hole since kaiju were introduced; be cool to have it filled.

I would hate if they made larger colossal monsters/kaiju immune to smaller weapons and it wouldn't make sense if they even did that. Your overall ability to harm something should be determined by CR, not what size they are. That's the whole point in having very high AC, DR, and other resistances, to make something seem invincible to weaker creature.

If you don't like the idea that very high level PCs can harm Kaiju-like creatures, it's important to understand these PCs aren't ordinary warriors, like something you would see in a movie like Gladiator or Braveheart. They're godlike beings that are meant to accomplish the seemingly impossible.


The Mortonator wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
You realize that the damage we're talking about is you wanting a non-legendary pokemon to melt the planet simply by existing right? I think it'd be a lot more reasonable that it's flamethrower attack deals at least 4d6 damage (which is how much damage a flamethrower does in Pathfinder), rather than infinite damage auto-apocalypse caused by slugma simply evolving into it.

You are sciencing wrong. Temperatures three times a Magcargo have existed on planet earth in the form of Lightning Bolts. Granted, they exist as a flash in the pan, but there is a huge difference between something's inner temperature and it's outer temperature.

Milo v3 wrote:
So? You're giving it power equal to a god.

Absolutely.

As The Sideromancer correctly points out, there are "normal" Pokemon that battle gods. And that's in terms of the Uber tier, where Pokemon are fought at their absolute best in a competitive format. A "wild god" is far less frightening and easy to take down. Heck, there are SEVERAL demi-gods and Regigigas in the PU tier. On par with Raticate.

In the Pokemon world, a rat will take on demi-gods. Oh, and the being that gave the world emotions is NU. Have fun!

I feel like bringing in leveling mechanics straight from the game boy games is going to make any conversions difficult, considering these notions like a "rat will take on demigods" wouldn't ever fly in the anime or manga. Maybe they do, I guess I never heard of it.


The Sideromancer wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
StevenStag25 wrote:

I was just throwing out the challenge to stat up any pokemon you want to the people who feel like doing it.

And yeah, be a bit generous with the sizing on the pokemon.

What do you mean by being generous? It's probably better to give them the appropriate size categories as pathfinder would find them at, to also avoid any confusion. That being the case, there isn't any Pokemon that passes huge range, from what it seems like.
Some do, for example wailord exceeds colossal space limits at 47'7".

That's not how the game works, with size categories. A space of a monster doesn't tell you it's exact size because their abstracted and made for ease of use. For example, a sea serpent in bestiary 1 is 60-ft long and is a 20-ft square, where as one advanced to colossal is 300-ft long and is still a 30-ft square.


StevenStag25 wrote:

I was just throwing out the challenge to stat up any pokemon you want to the people who feel like doing it.

And yeah, be a bit generous with the sizing on the pokemon.

What do you mean by being generous? It's probably better to give them the appropriate size categories as pathfinder would find them at, to also avoid any confusion. That being the case, there isn't any Pokemon that passes huge range, from what it seems like.


VampByDay wrote:
In the movie, Smaug got hit by a bunch of flash powder, and then immersion in liquid gold, which quite obviously hurt him. He also got hit by a bunch of falling debris. After all that damage, who is to say that a single Balista Bolt of Dragon-Slaying couldn't finish the job?

Even if he didn't take damage before getting hit by the ballista, isn't meant to 1 shot him anyway? It's the item that's doing most of the work, so it doesn't matter if the character is e6, since someone above mentioned this. That's like if someone had a vorpal sword and one shots Godzilla because they got lucky. That doesn't mean the character with the vorpal weapon is somehow epic level.


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Really, Greater Teleport can allow you travel to other planets if you have some idea of where you are going. Interplanetary Teleport just does that much better.


I agree that you don't need to be higher than 6th level. You can still make powerful characters with only 6 levels.

I think the trolls in this movie resemble ogres in pathfinder. They fight and look like them, and I don't think they could regenerate any body part (including head) that's severed.

The stone giants are just best represented by colossal earth elementals in pathfinder. Judging by the hit dice and the pattern of their CR increase per size category, the stone giants would be about CR 15


Zhangar wrote:

In comparison, Sarenrae accidentally tore open Golarion all the way to the mantle with a single sword strike over at Gormuz.

Some fun with math -- the continental crust is about 25 miles thick, give or take a few miles for elevation. Stone has 15 HP per inch. So the crust is approximately 1,584,000 inches.

Meaning that Sarenrae potentially struck the entire city of Gormuz for about 23,760,000 damage with a single melee attack.

(Though it's more likely she "merely" struck for 2 to 3 million damage instead, since she was expecting to just crater the city, not punch through to the mantle. But Rovagug had been weakening the region, and thus greatly reducing the amount of "smite" needed to bust it all the way open.)

Now, with that number in mind for Sarenrae's basic melee attack, remember that she needed the back up of about a dozen beings just as powerful as she was just to subdue Rovagug long enough to imprison him.

Here's the thing with this; I think it's a bad idea to attempt to recreate an effect like that through damage, alone. As an example, a Great Red Wyrm's "Melt Stone" ability with its breath weapon allows it to melt stone in a 60-ft radius. It could target the ground and melt that deep in to solid stone, and it wasn't because it just inflicted 10,800 damage with its breath weapon. This shows me that creating a creator that large was simply an application of her melee attack.

Anyway, the GM is pretty much always in control of a Great Red Wyrm. This being the case, the dragon can cast wish for its greater effect, choosing to exponentially increase the radius of its next use of melt stone, GM approves, now said dragon proceeds to melt an entire mountain. It's all perfectly RAW, as well. A GM doesn't necessarily need a deity to do some serious destruction.


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Since ending worlds is in discussion, that's something that's said Behemoths do in their description.


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I just assumed that since the max power level of a demon lord/archdevil/empyreal lord is 30, a pathfinder deity would be CR31+. I already consider creatures/PCs that are about CR 18+ to already be godlike. When there are creatures that are relatively invulnerable to most physical/energy attacks, that can fly, change weather, resurrect others, teleport, lift giant objects, able to regenerate from dust, and live forever, I think it's pretty easy to use them as a stand-in for a deity. Especially creatures with miracle/wish, as the power level of these spells is only limited by the GM, because if the GM wanted to those spells can literally do anything, according to RAW.


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Tacticslion wrote:

Perhaps!

Firearms, seige engines, and tanks are a fair starting baseline in that case, and those are... pretty potent. (Also hardness/energy damage halving of metals compared to their effects in a given universe against weaponry.)

Nonetheless, those are just guesses and baselines - until actual Starfinder rules come out, we're left just as ad hocing things from our own guess works and particular need preferences. :)

Jeez, what kind of tank is that. That thing is like more than 3 times the size of an Abrams tank.


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Tacticslion wrote:
I just assumed they were using the numbers from Star Wars d20 in their calculations.

maybe, but things always get rebalanced when converted into pathfinder.


Imbicatus wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
DeathMvp wrote:

I have GM'ed a home game that was the D20 Starwars with the pathfinder class brough in from a back water world. It was alot of playing with it to work but may and my group had fun with it. Magic was intresting to play with to work with space ships but we got it to work.

The best was when a Collosal Gold Dragon did battle with a Star destroyer.

Unless Lasers did fire damage, the star destroyer would have completely destroyed the dragon. Even then, ion cannons and missile launchers should have chewed it to pieces. A colossal dragon would only be the size of a Corellian corvette. We all saw how well that went in the opening scene of A New Hope.
it probably wouldn't be at all harmed if it chooses to use its magic to protect itself from those attacks. It's a 9th level caster that has access to tons of anti-tech spells, it's not like it's just big monster.

What magic though? Wall of Force and it's like will be breached quickly, as will stone skin. Anti-tech field will stop projectiles and lasers, but not explosions.

It could avoid the ship with no problem, but if It just tried to buff up and attack it, it's got at best a 50% chance of winning, especially when you include the ships shields and tractor beams to immobilize it.

I don't know why wall of force is going to go down quickly, if used. I don't think we should assume that its weapons are going to instantly do astronomical amounts of damage like we've never seen, because it probably would be balanced like everything else in this game. If anything, it's weapons, like its lasers, could function like a colossal laser pistol/rifle, which is like 8d6 or so damage.

The anti tech field does have an effect against explosives. It's so they don't hit the dragon directly and instead force a saving throw to half the damage.

It doesn't need stone skin. It has its own DR.

I honestly don't think the tractor beams might be all that effective. Vehicles always had low saves and CMD, while the dragon's is going to very high. Again, I'm not going to assume it's weapon is going to just dominate the dragon like it's nothing.


Imbicatus wrote:
DeathMvp wrote:

I have GM'ed a home game that was the D20 Starwars with the pathfinder class brough in from a back water world. It was alot of playing with it to work but may and my group had fun with it. Magic was intresting to play with to work with space ships but we got it to work.

The best was when a Collosal Gold Dragon did battle with a Star destroyer.

Unless Lasers did fire damage, the star destroyer would have completely destroyed the dragon. Even then, ion cannons and missile launchers should have chewed it to pieces. A colossal dragon would only be the size of a Corellian corvette. We all saw how well that went in the opening scene of A New Hope.

it probably wouldn't be at all harmed if it chooses to use its magic to protect itself from those attacks. It's a 9th level caster that has access to tons of anti-tech spells, it's not like it's just big monster.


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Avoron wrote:
Veilgn wrote:

Just transfwr tarrasque to the sun.

Let see what happends.

Yes, let's.

The tarrasque is immune to fire, but it's certainly not immune to pressure. In Pathfinder, water does approximately 1d6 points of pressure damage per 100 feet (2.95 atmospheres of pressure) per minute, for an average of about 0.119 damage per atmosphere per round. If we assumes this increases proportionally for absurd pressures from inside a star (seems as good a guess as any), and we assume that Golarion's sun has similar central pressures to our own (around 250 billion atmospheres, apparently), we can calculate the amount of damage the tarrasque will be taking: 250 billion x 0.119 = 29.75 billion damage every round. In other words, every round spent inside the sun translates to about 140 years of regeneration. The tarrasque, meanwhile, must go into hibernation for the lack of breathable air. This makes it immune to any effect that could determine its location, and it has no means of regaining consciousness or escaping the sun on its own.

Sweet dreams!

If we go by those rules, the Tarrasque has about 200 rounds (20 minutes) before it starts to be threatened by the pressure. The fortitude save starts at 15 +1 for each minute each save. It has no where to go, though, so either way it works fine.


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There's always a giant template Hydra for a CR5 gargantuan :D

If you want to be a little creative. There are templates like the mutant template in bestiary 5.


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Malwing wrote:
You know the only reason why RAW seeing the sun doesn't work is because nobody bothered to make size rules past colossal size. I was having similar problems just now because I've been trying to find out exactly how big the Tarrasque is to solidify some house rules. Personally I think once it's past double 64-128ft then the monster should have some environmental rules so that you can interact with it as if it were not a creature sometimes (climb it like in Shadow of the Colossus.)

The Tarrasque can swallow a Brachiosaurus whole (gargantuan size) if that helps you judge its size.

Shadow of the Colossus has almost nothing that reaches 100' in height, so climbing something like that is probably best left as a feat rather than a monster's quality.


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Since the Balrog is being brought up, and while I disagree that it shares the same power as the Balor, this would be a good stand in for it (at least the film version).


For me, I have players play in a specific setting of my preferences only as I won't be able to play that same exact setting in someone else's game. My goal is to get them to like it for similar reasons as I do while we all have a blast.


I know this doesn't add to anything, but the statblock for the level 16 "CR 14" King is the sorriest and most pathetic "CR 14" I've ever seen, haha. It's really more like CR 6 or 7 at best.


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GreyWolfLord wrote:
Kahel Stormbender wrote:
GreyWolfLord wrote:

Don't discount technology. In Pathfinder a rifle bullet does 1d8 more or less damage.

In real life...that bullet kills you dead no matter WHAT "level" you are. I suppose you could compare it to a death spell, but even more deadly in the hands of an expert shooter.

To be fair, a normal person would have 1d6+con in hit points. And people do regularly survive being shot. But that 1d8 damage CAN kill a normal person. Adventurers wouldn't be considered normal.

But how long would that level 13 wizard last under the fire from a chaingun or m16 assault rifle? Or dozens of assault rifles? Or hundreds of assault rifles? Would a sniper bullet to the head be considered a ranged cdg that doesn't require the target to be helpless?

It doesn't matter HOW MANY HP you have, 1 bullet will kill you.

an elephant in PF has 11d8...one bullet can kill an elephant.

A Whale has 15d8, a bullet (or even one harpoon [which is actually better in whaling...bullets have to some special modifications in the whale's case) properly done can kill them.

Apparantly, we have harpoonest and sharpshooters that can hit at least an AC of 28 or better...

Sometimes FAR more consistently than someone with a 20 BAB even, (meaning they won't miss on a natural 1, they miss less than 1% of the time).

That would put their BAB somewhere in the range of 30 or 40, maybe even 50...(even if we say they do miss 5% of the time somehow)...meaning these snipers and others could be over 30th or 40th level!

And we have many of them.

Our weapons aren't the wimpy PF weapons...the Gun and all the types of ammunition are like Death Spells.

Anyone can have the ability to buy the appropriate death spell, and with enough training, actually use it effectively.

We haven't even gotten into the REALLY decent military weapons yet, and heck, not even close to the heavy weapons a tank might carry (and the armor to prevent it from being destroyed by the same), or the super weapons...

Yes, one bullet can kill any of these creatures in real life and in game. If a creature is in a helpless condition or even treated as such (like standing there and allowing for an opportunity to get shot in the head, though it's a GM's call) is most likely to die from a coup de grace from a high critical multiplying weapon like a gun.

Same with the harpoon example. If a creature is bound and helpless, you can auto hit with any weapon. It doesn't matter if they have 1,000 AC, they still get hit, critted, and forced to save or die. And like with any animal, they pretty much have no special defenses like many magical beasts do, so they are in a pretty bad position.


Imbicatus wrote:
Besides, it's not like King Kong was just a Megaprimatus. He was a Giant, Advanced, Megaprimatus.

King Kong isn't colossal, IMO he isn't even gargantuan.

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