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If 2 mythic tiers equals +1 CR then yes it's not supposed to be overpowered. A CR increase from a source should have its power level in line with any other source.
DM Under The Bridge wrote:
You do realize that cleave and greater cleave/cleaving finish allows you to attack multiple targets at once, right? Did you also know that if you use the lunge feat in conjunction with greater cleave it allows you to potentially strike down over a dozen targets with a single standard action?
I won't speak for everyone as for what the reason is behind placing GoT at level 6 and under, but I'll share my reason.
They are impressive in the context of their setting, but you don't need double digit levels to be impressive. These are people who are good at beating other humans and such, but pathfinder is not just a game that has a few dragons and only humanoids with some animals as possible encounters.
Making someone level 12 (CR 11) means they are a challenge for a 40' tall elder earth elemental or a building sized dinosaur that can swallow a brachiosaurus whole and tank missile launchers (t-rex with the giant and invincible templates, also a CR 11 creature). Am I supposed to expect Syrio to challenge any of these creatures I mentioned? Putting these characters at a lower level isn't intended to disrespect them or anything, it's to properly put them at the correct CR in comparison to everything else the game has to offer.
That whole Thoros ressurection thing. When Beric lost to Sandor and then was immediately healed afterwards, that looks like cure light wounds to me than anything. Cure light wounds can heal mortally wounded people, too. Let's not get it twisted though, I'm just acknowledging the fact that you don't need high end magic to represent what happened; I'm not trying to put down the character or anything. Coincidently, not only is a 1st level warpriest able to heal the mortally wounded, but they also have an ability to make someone's weapon deal fire damage, too.
Titans that exist in this game are from CR21 - 22, but they could easily be stand-ins for gods. That whole thing about gods can't be statted is really for Golarion gods, not necessarily for all gods in any setting or universe.
Dud Muffin wrote:
I think a couple of brawler levels would work fine, maybe give him hero points on top of that.
I agree with you that the people he fights don't need to be commoners. I think a level of warrior would work. A warrior with combat related feats is a big difference from a commoner with non-combat feats.
I don't think it's a good idea to give him anymore than 3 levels. Making him level 6+ starts to put his power level in the same range as large sized drakes and 16-ft. tall elementals.
Any suggestions on this? Is there some better way to create a world by spell or should I just leave that to deities?
If you're the GM, you can simply use the Wish spell to do that. The Wish spell's section on creating greater than the listed effects is only subject to GM discretion, so there would be nothing stopping something like a Pleroma Aeon or a Fomorian Titan from creating an entire world from nothing.
You might not like this method, but it's still technically 100% rules legal.
They don't call it the "mightiest spell" for nothing.
JJ Jordan wrote:
Whether they were impaled in the chest by a lance or stabbed in the eye and then hung, it still deals hitpoint damage and it still allows someone with the cure spell to bring them back.
Visually, for the most part, the dying condition and dead condition aren't going to appear much different. The dying condition is sort of similar to the dead condition, as in they can't do anything but lay there. It's not like they've established that Thoros' healing ability can only bring back someone in the dying condition. To him and anyone else, the person in the dying condition is pretty much dead, in other words he's not coming back. Point is, when they are "dead" in their setting probably means dying condition mechanically in pathfinder.
it's hard to be instantly killed in pathfinder, whether it's getting an axe to the neck or being blown away by a grenade launcher. They still have a chance to be cured. A person in the dying condition without help is as good as dead anyway, even if they stabilize, which the game even points out. This is why Cure Light Wounds, even a 1st level spell, is invaluable in their setting.
Remove disease doesn't mean 5th level cleric either. The restoration subdomain allows for it to be a 2nd level spell. Assuming hero points are allowed so they can be used to cast a spell one level higher, which brings us right back to level 1. Which again makes sense, seeing that they can't do everything or probably anything else that a 5th level cleric can do.
Okay, I'm not saying that everything in GoT has to be 1st level. They could have another level or two, but my point that it, at least to me, is easy to convert with even with 1st level characters.
Combat Monster wrote:
It's not that people think it's badwrongfun, but a lot of people somehow got it in their head that it's impossible to convert characters or anything from a source other than pathfinder. I've even seen people post that it's impossible to convert characters as simple as the ones from Game of Thrones without house rules.
JJ Jordan wrote:
I understand that GoT doesn't exactly run itself with the pathfinder system, but in this case it is an appropriate comparison.
Thoros took someone's sword and gave it back to him, throw in some fluff, and it went on fire. I don't see why it being chemical or a (Su) class ability really makes a difference. After he was downed, Thoros went up to him to heal and bring back his fallen ally; which Cure Light Wounds does well.
I don't see why it's an unfair comparison when the situation can be perfectly replicated in Pathfinder with a Warpriest and probably other classes at 1st level.
JJ Jordan wrote:
Magic is "turning back on" in the GoT universe. Thoros is a level 9ish cleric at least. There are wizards, sorcerers, witches and druids that will experience increasing power as the old world spells start working again.
His ability to make a weapon deal fire damage and heal someone in the dying condition can be done with a 1st level warpriest. Making him at least 9th level puts his CR higher than a 30ft. tall elemental and a remorhaz (big enough to swallow a rhino whole), in addition to allowing him to walk on water or cure blindness.
He would make characters like Mountain or Sandor look like a joke in comparison.
After thinking about it, going Monk 2/Ninja 7 works very well. After adding the vampire template (which he is in the anime, the physical benefits at least}, the touch AC and evasion from Monk with swift action invisibility and sneak attack from the Ninja combined with great cleave works exactly like what is shown here. Any thoughts?
Okay, sorry I misunderstood that part. Also is this just out of curiosity or are you thinking about actually building and playing a character inspired by this video? Because if you're thinking of playing the character I would probably lean more towards a strength focused build as opposed to dex simply because it's easier to deliver damage at lower levels with strength and you won't end up waiting ten levels before your character finally has the gear to make the idea work.
I enjoy pinpointing the CRs of characters in anime, movies, shows and such. I like to know where they stand compared to everything else the game has.
A GM can always take the easier way out to have a caster create worlds. A creature with Wish or Miracle (such as a Solar or Pleroma Aeon, which have both) can cast it for the "greater than listed effects" portion and have the spell create a world. Since it requires GM discretion, the GM approves for the full effect and that's it. Which is all RAW legal xD
It only appears to be rules abuse because of how powerful arcane casters can be. It's not like it's a hard combo to come up with after some spell research.
James Jacobs wrote:
I don't think it's in the PRD, but it does say this under Empyreal Lord Traits in my physical copy.
Well unless the cannon's attacks can hit its mark dead on instantaneously, there's no reason there wouldn't be a range penalty. Even if there isn't there still needs to be some sort of large attack bonus to hit.
Speed isn't too much of a problem especially with a quickened teleport.
Arcane casters have too many options to deal with projectiles, even without the existence of Anti Technology Field (basically makes any sort of tecnological projectile not work against all in radius).
It makes sense to me if a high level barbarian can tank a head shot from a weapon like a sniper rifle. The barbarian can posess statistics that rival Godzilla's, so the barbarian shouldn't be treated differently because he happens to be a medium sized humanoid.
I didn't intend on derailing the thread or anything. I was just having fun by talking about the subject more.
An AC-130's attacks are going to suffer from enough ranged penalties that hitting a high touch AC in the first place isn't going to happen. Any siege weapon based attacks are going to target normal AC, which will make it tougher.
An AC-130 isn't outside the range of a caster. They could fly and teleport.
Their weapons aren't going to save them. Any high level character has access to DR especially with a caster around, which 10 is enough to reduce even automatic gun fire to 0 damage.
Even a party of mid level Monks would devastate them. They have great touch AC for dodging bullets, can catch bullets mid-air, can teleport, and have good reflex saves and evasion to evade any explosive they have.
Someone would have to really sell high level characters very short if they were to think a high level group would lose against local police. The police, for the most part, would just be single level NPCs proficient with a 1d8 ranged weapon that targets touch.
If the group fighting the police were Game of Thrones characters, then I can easily see them losing. Higher level pathfinder characters are more akin to the avengers, really.
Arcanic Drake wrote:
if they happened to be a higher level caster I don't think they would be captured any time soon.
I would feel bad for the police if they tried to arrest or even attacked the pathfinder adventurers. There would be tons of law enforcers missing if the adventures had even a few levels.
my point originally was that 30' space colossals aren't the size of their square and not necessarily small.
While it does make sense that bigger colossals have larger natural damage dice, according to RAW all it means is that they have larger spaces. The tempest behemoth, for example, has a wing attack that deals 8d8 damage, probably the highest base damage out of any monster even though it's smaller than kaiju.
It could be someone with class levels.
IMO, unless she has some abilities that can only be covered by using mythic, then there's no reason of being mythic.
If being special with powers means mythic, then why aren't creatures like a Phoenix or colossal god spawns (behemoths, spawns of rovagug) mythic? I don't think she needs it.
And Colossal isn't even really that big when you think about it. They take up a 30 square foot area, that's not even the size of a house, or a commuter ferry. You don't think in a magical fantasy world there's going to be things bigger than that? And wouldn't those things be capable of causing proportionally increased amounts of damage?
As far as monsters are concerned, colossal is the biggest size category.Colossal is actually pretty enormous, at least for some monsters. A Thunder Behemoth, a quadruped monster for example, can swallow whole a group of adjacent brachiosauruses in one standard action and carry them around inside its multiple stomachs. The only reason it takes up a 30 ft. Square is that it's meant to be usable by the GM.
Another example is the sea serpent from bestiary 1 advanced to colossal. It's supposed to be over 300 ft. long, but it still takes up a 30 ft square.
Google dicefreaks. They have a 3.5 netbook Named Gates of Hell. In their Forums there is probably a PF conversion for Asmodeus.
I remember their old site being deleted and replaced with a new one, but it had no where near the old content it did.
I never really liked their conversions, to be honest. The bloated stat blocks were beyond ridiculous.
Since there are no stats for him, that would be up to you as to how powerful he is.
As for mortals battling gods, what difference does it make if the PCs are mortal or not? It's how powerful you are (CR) that counts, not if you're mortal or not.
There are many immortal creatures in this game in the CR 20 - 30 range with plenty of godlike powers that can easily be used as replacements for deities. Especially creatures with Wish and/or Miracle spell-like abilities. Since Wish and Miracle requires GM discretion to use the greater and open ended portion of them, that means those spells can pretty much accomplish anything regardless of how powerful and crazy it is. With this being the case, personally I would have no need for stats for deities (but I would still like to see them).
Sir Dante wrote:
If you want to jump super high or get very high strength checks you would need to, but everything else is probably covered by barbarian alone.
Just a Guess wrote:
the barbarian has rage powers to sunder spells, get strength check bonuses, but I'm not sure about the energy thing though. All of this can be done with less than a dozen barbarian levels with a few mythic tiers.
Alex G St-Amand wrote:
mountain is tall but it doesn't mean he's large. There are things 8 feet tall and still medium. Wielding a 2 hander one handed can be done with a barbarian archetype at level 2 or a fluffed large longsword. As for skills and feats, it doesn't seem like he would have many. I would need examples.
As for the rest, except skin changers and mages since you're not counting them, what do they do that can't be done without house ruling?
Shane LeRose wrote:
The traits and feat suggestions were nice, but you didn't offer any usable builds. I was expecting ready made NPC stats. Probably not enough room in your article, but a fine thought experiment never-the-less.
I take it he's going for a "mountain feel" rather than a stat block, otherwise none of the GOT characters would be above 4th level.
On the 300+ str to lift earth, here's an easy way out.
The GM has a Formorian Titan cast Wish for a greater effect. That effect could be an overpowered Ant Haul like effect to increase its carrying capacity high enough to lift Earth. The GM approves. The Titan can now lift Earth, but in a way that is not overpowered but balanced.
That's how I would handle it, at least.
Even if you use this system, this doesn't stop a 19th level PC class (which someone else put him at above) from being superhuman. Wound points are a bit difficult to damage directly and still have to deal with a ton of vitality points at that level.
The wound point system still has to deal with PCs being bitten, chewed, and swallowed by giant creatures, for example. Which, at that level, he would easily be able to survive and cut his way out to continue the battle.
I wouldn't put him in the 8 - 11 level range (CR 7-10) because it means he's about as threatening as a 30+ ft. tall elemental or be able to take on multiple creatures like pards and quicklings (creatures fast enough to become a blur or even phase through things and set them on fire).
Sorry, I just don't see him being higher than 3rd level.