|Paizo Pathfinder® Paizo Games|
|About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ|
The problem with one level of Mesmerist is that undead/constructs/etc will be immune to your stare (which is usually remedied by taking Psychic Inception as a L3 Mesmerist). So, basically, you're looking for a situational swift action ability for a (basically) +2 DC at the cost of slowing your Cleric progression. Not worth it IMHO.
Lock gaze gives everyone else concealment, allowing them to make stealth checks.
If you're pretty sure that you'll always be running with a couple of rogues or slayers every scenario then that's definitely a force amplifier...but given the nature of PFS, if you don't have those classes in party it's dead-ish slot.
I re-read Anticipate Thoughts and came around on it when I realized it would be better once you have your defenses-in-depth going and almost guarantee those misses. I would only be concerned about the Will DC of your foe (stare notwithstanding).
Otherwise, have fun!
Avoid taking utility or situational spells in your very limited slots--Faerie Fire, Comprehend Languages and Share Languages would be perfect examples of that. Spells like that should be purchased on scrolls or in oils/potions.
Telempathetic Projection is very situational and not worth your slots--better to Aid Another on Diplo check than burn a precious slot.
Lock Gaze doesn't help sneak attackers (i.e. blinded for one round) unless the foe willingly leaves your line of sight. Also, most mooks don't live long enough for it to matter and most bosses will be out-action economied to escape (and if they have magical means to do so, they probably can make the initial Will save)
Avoiding DC-based spells for a melee mesmerist:
Expeditious Retreat: Ditto.
Grease: While your DC may not be spectacular, most melee mooks will not have great REF saves or acrobatics skills. This is a battlefield control spell to fight the battle on your terms--even if they don't fall, you've created an obstacle for the enemy to navigate around.
Ill Omen: No Save. Scales. Good for you vs a melee creature, good for party casters if you drop this on a focus fire target.
Silent Image: Rewards creativity and very flexible.
Vanish: Works on you or party member.
Glitterdust: Most likely just have a few scrolls of this on hand.
False Life, Greater
Christopher Rowe wrote:
Wai, are you saying most PFS players wait until they're at the table before deciding which of their characters to play? Because that doesn't map onto my experience at all.
Usually, there's the character I WANT to play, the character I CAN play and the character I NEED to play.
Using some of my characters as an example for a hypothetical 4-5 scenario:
I WANT to play my L4 Debuff Mesmerist.
I CAN play a L5 Summoner, a L4 TWF Slayer, a L4 Reach Paladin or a L3 Dirty Trick Barbarian.
Oh, the entire party is squishy casters and/or ranged? Looks like the L4 Paladin it is...
Immediate Actions =/= Attacks of Opportunity
An attack of opportunity "interrupts" the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character's turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a character's turn).
There are clear parsings of the rules upthread, so the players should take care they are not using the "interrupts" angle as that would not apply IMHO. The Sorcerer waited until after the BB resolved to act--he does not interrupt the BB spell, however, he can cast a spell right after BB to create the EFS.
For pure simplicity, STR-Fighters:
After this point: Gloves of Dueling, Improved Weapon Focus/Specialization, Improved Critical, etc
Optional, at L6 start the Sentinel Prestige Class. Pick up above mentioned feats along way.
Just making sure I'm parsing these abilities correctly:
Savage Dirty Tricks (Barbarian Rage Power):
Once per round while raging, the barbarian can attempt a dirty trick combat maneuver in place of a melee attack. This attempt does not provoke attacks of opportunity. If successful, the target takes an amount of damage equal to the barbarian's Strength modifier and must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the barbarian's level + the barbarian's Strength modifier) or take an additional penalty from the dirty trick based on the type of dirty trick performed and the following table.
Initial Penalty / Additional Penalty
On a failed Fortitude save, the opponent takes this additional penalty on top of the dirty trick's original effect. The additional penalty lasts for 1 round (though the initial penalty lasts as long as normal), and can be removed with a move action. The initial effect cannot be removed via mundane means until the additional penalty is removed (though magical effects like remove blindness/ deafness work). Removing the initial effect also removes the additional penalty. If the target is immune to the initial penalty, then it is unaffected by the additional penalty.
For example, a barbarian using this rage power attempts a dirty trick combat maneuver against her opponent to blind him. She succeeds and her opponent fails his Fortitude save, so he becomes staggered as well as blinded.
Regardless of whether he had succeeded at his saving throw, the opponent still takes an amount of damage from the barbarian's combat maneuver equal to the barbarian's Strength modifier (unless he has damage reduction or would otherwise be able to prevent this damage). Likewise, if her opponent were immune to blinding effects, he would not suffer from the blindness or the staggering effect, regardless of his saving throw.
This power can only be used once per opponent per rage.
While using this style, you can attempt to perform a dirty trick in place of an attack at the end of a charge.
While you are using the Kitsune Style feat, you can apply two different conditions with a single dirty trick combat maneuver check. Removing both conditions imparted in this way requires only one action.
1) Once per rage per opponent, I can use Dirty Savage Tricks to use DT in replace an attack.
Am I reading that correctly?
Second Bonus Rules Theorizing for Fun That Don't Affect Me But I Was Wondering:
DST: "The additional penalty lasts for 1 round (though the initial penalty lasts as long as normal), and can be removed with a move action. The initial effect cannot be removed via mundane means until the additional penalty is removed (though magical effects like remove blindness/ deafness work)."
KT: "Removing both conditions imparted in this way requires only one action"
Assuming you don't have Greater Dirty Trick and didn't pick conditions that precluded move actions, how would handle clearing the conditions on the next round?
Barbarian's turn: Barbarian uses Savage Dirty Tricks to DT as an attack. He uses Kitsune Tricks to inflict two conditions (Blinded and Deafness). Furthermore, the foe fails his FORT save and gets the second tier penalty of Blinded, which is Staggered.
Foe's Turn: He has a move action and decides to clear a condition.
What is legal to clear? I believe it is:
He can clear Staggered with a move action.
Normally, he could clear both Blinded and Deafness with a move action per Kitsune Tricks, but the DST-inflicted Staggered condition "shields" Blinded for the 1 round it is in effect.
Dirty Trick Master is not legal in PFS, so that's a no go.
To begin the Kitsune Chain, I would need to take Dirty Fighting.
However, thanks for pointing out the Kitsune chain, definitely more to mull over because by L9 I could be using Kitsune Tricks.
I don't need an IWC smark showboating and putting himself over in my thread, MAGGLE!
I'm toying around with an Untamed Rager Barbarian. Primary focus: Reach weapon controller using Dirty Tricks, Tripping & Intimidation. Secondary focus: 2H damage.
I'm trying to keep it pure barbarian.
If I don't go Intimidating Prowess/Cornugon Smash/Hurtful, I would consider Dirty Fighting/Imp Trip/Grt Trip, Dirty Fighting/Superior Dirty Trick/(1 open) or the boring-but-expected extra rage feats for Beast totem into Pouncing.
STR 18 (+2 human)
Trait: Bred for War (+1 CMB/Intimidate), (+1 open trait slot)
But I'm thinking of gods like Lamashtu and Rovagug. Why would anyone non-evil worship them? And why would those worshipers join the Pathfinder Society? And the same for many other evil deities.
Someone on Reddit asked for help roleplaying a Lamashtu worshipper in PFS, here was my reply:
General Lamashtu Fluff:
Lamashtu and her deranged faithful hold creatures of deformity, monstrosity, and virility in high regard.
Lamashtu's followers seek out deformity in themselves and in others, and perform scarring and mutilation on themselves and others.
You can describe your PC as scarred and might even have him hope/wish his wounds leave scars when he is being healed. Obviously you cannot scar others (torture is evil in PFS), but you can definitely play up in combat that you are a gory/merciless/cruel fighter.
They detest traditional forms of beauty and seek to destroy or kill it whenever possible.
This will be trickier, but you can always have fun with it. You can ask the GM which opponent is the prettiest/handsomest/most virile and make them a priority in combat. Out of combat, while you can't wantonly destroy items as you work for PFS, you can make a point of noting where they are or where they're going in-character. A Lasmashtu-worshipper working for the Dark Archive or Scarab Sages gives you a fun character motivation and texture to your RP because while you work tirelessly for the PFS to find and bring back items or save people, it's only because some day in the future, you will destroy them and it's much easier to do so if you know where the items are or what the capabilities of the people are.
Some intentionally make themselves more beast-like, with her non-human followers do the opposite to better blend in with the more civilized races.
Easily done by buying mundane items (like furs), magical items (that have beastly appearances) or using transmutation spells in combat.
Now let's crib from her Antipaladin code:
All things are monstrous, and only the weak hide their marks. I show the world as it is.
You are proud (perhaps overly so?). You are a blunt speaker.
I will bring the outcasts in from the cold and teach them the taste of victory.
You will not only seek to help the oppressed (weak villagers) or enslaved (slaves), but arm them and encourage to take up arms. Why not buy some cheap daggers or simple weapons to give to folks like these you find on your travels in various scenarios?
I fill the wombs. I birth the children. I teach our enemies why they fear the night.
Perhaps your character believes that by proving his martial prowess and saving/uplifting the outcasts, one day he will be judged worthy to be Lamashtu's consort?
I bring madness to the cities, that in their blood and fear they may understand the chaos of the world.
While you humor the strictures of society (and Society), but you know eventually it is for naught.
I will spread the Mother’s seed. If the blind cannot be taught to see, their children can.
You simply evangelize or praise the positive tenets of Lamashtu.
2) The fact that the Society regularly sends you out to face and defeat Big Bads and find things of power gives you a motivation to work with them.
3) By showing your prowess to party members and those NPCs you save, you are showing them the grace of Lasmashtu.
Source: Guy who played a shield-bashing CN Rovagug worshipper to L12, made everyone laugh with him and cheer on his antics...and almost earned a few converts when he saved them in clutch encounters. Favorite memories: anytime he partied with a Stonelord Paladin of Torag, his "friend" who he was so impressed with that he promised Rovagug would kill the Paladin personally when the Rough Beast returned.
Honestly, for me, the trick for any worshipper is determining WHY they follow that god, WHAT tenets they hold above the others and HOW they honor/enact those tenets.
I'm considering a Dirty Trick using character but am a little leery of possible table variation in PFS.
As a player, I've never used DT but I've done lots of tripping, bullrushing and grappling (which included explaining the grappling rules on a regular basis since most folks aren't familiar with those).
As a GM I've only had two players ever use DT on a regular basis and I only thing I required was that they explained how they were enacting the DT (i.e. if they said "I blind it with DT" and I would simply ask "how are you blinding it with DT?" and 99% of the time accepted the explanation unless it was undoable against the creature)
For players who use DT, what are your experiences using DT in PFS? Any tips on minimizing table variation?
For GMs, any thoughts on how you adjudicate DT?
"So, what's the deal with that guy over there?"
"Oh, 'Books' Bellingham?"
"Yeah, he doesn't seem all that...y'know..."
"Ha! Booksy ain't the smartest. That's for sure. But throws himself at a stack of dusty scrolls and moldy tomes as hard as he does at a orc bandit. Sure, it takes him a little longer for facts to stick and numbers to figure, but once ol' Booksy gets it, he gots it. ...mostly."
It might help if you can tell us a few scenarios you think don't work well online, and why?
Personally, and speaking only for me, I abhor RP-heavy scenarios online. Why? Because it becomes fantasy conference call staring at a static computer screen. While at the table RP can be engaging and immersive, online RP feels stilted & boring (think the difference of attending a play or musical versus watching one on Youtube). I would not want to play Blackros Matrimony, Fortress of the Nail, Hellknight's Feast or Scars of the Third Crusade online.
Again, to re-iterate, RP-heavy scenarios don't work well online for my sensibilities.
I'll be carrying Pots of Remove Fear and picking up a rod along the way.
@Arutema, I've played other casters so I'm making sure that I'll have one or two bread and butter spells, then a nice swath of varied back up spells/scrolls.
@plaidwandering, my thinking was I could have Fearsome Guise implanted on one martial and use Intimidating Glance on another creature if there were multiple creatures (unfortunately, parties don't always focus fire the same target). Also, it would give me a back up if I had to go: Round 1 Stare (move/standard open for something else that trumps Intimidating). Round 2: Intimidating Glance > Standard cast.
However, I'm not sure on that yet. Any suggestions for a replacement feat? I could go with the classic Improved Initiative or maybe Ready for Battle or Ready for Pain feats.
Can you flank an enemy if you cannot see the ally opposite you?
How might the situation change if the enemy you're attempting to flank can or can't see one or both of you as well?
Does it make any difference if you are aware of your ally's presence and position (but still cannot see him)?
Flanking: "Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus."
Threatened Squares: "You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally)."
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Ergo, if you have 5 BAB, you can make up to three attacks with the feat; once against your initial target, then up to two "bounces." At 10 BAB, you can make up to two "bounces." At 15 BAB, you can make up to three "bounces." And at BAB 20, you can make up to four "bounces."
Shouldn't this be:
...if you have 5 BAB, you can make up to three attacks with the feat; once against your initial target, then up to two "bounces." At 10 BAB, you can make up to three "bounces." At 15 BAB, you can make up to four "bounces." And at BAB 20, you can make up to five "bounces."
Okee dokee, using the power of the Cracked Opalascent White Pyramid Ioun Stone, I can retrain the EWP Whip feat, leveraging the Human bonus feat.
Here are 3 builds: DEX-based Swashbucker 1/Lore Warden 10 & Lore Warden 11 (both heavily invested in battlefield control) and a STR-based Lore Warden 11 based on using Cornagun Smash/Hurtful to boost his damage when not tripping (1d10+19ish at L10 before any buffs or weapon enchants). I didn't have time to do a 1/2 orc STR Lore Warden, but the feat progression would the same basically, just a level delayed starting a L5 since I'd have to pick up Combat Reflexes in a normal feat slot.
I'm leaning DEX-based simply because of the skills, the naturally higher AC and the option to wear a buckler to boost AC even more and couple that with Stylish Riposte:
Stylish Riposte wrote:
I'm noodling around with Weapon Master's Handbook and I'm struggling between two different builds.
One is a DEX-based Swashbuckler 1/Lore Warden 10. Using the Swashbuckler Mysterious Avenger archetype and Slashing Grace gives me DEX to damage, some nice class skills and, with the DEX focus, a good AC. The damage (such as it is for a battlefield tripper) is meh.
The other is a STR-based Lore Warden 11 which does about 50% more damage overall thanks to 2H Power Attacking with the whip, meaning I can help mop up as needed or harass spell casters with a readied action. However, its AC is lower and has a less robust skill selection.
Also, both have atrocious Will saves and I'll have to invest in fixing that ;)
Any feedback would be welcome!
DEX Whipper: Mysterious Avenger 1/ Lore Warden 10:
L1 Swashbuckler: Mysterious Avenger (proficiency & finesse with whip)
L2 (and beyond) Fighter: Lore Warden
L11 (No Magic Items):
STR whipper: Lore Warden 11:
L11 (No Magic Items):
Toying around with a vanilla fighter that TWF with Kukris (or Daggers) that then takes Advanced Weapon Training: Focused Weapon for boosted damage dice.
STR-based whip & trip/disarm Lore Warden who gets Cut From Air and Smash From Air who is not only a battlefield controller and can help defend pals, but can do decent-ish support damage (approx +20ish per hit).
Anyone else have some ideas?
PFS Mesmerists should strongly consider taking Bold Stare: Psychic Inception at L3
Psychic Inception: The hypnotic stare and its penalty can affect creatures that are mindless or immune to mind-affecting effects (such as an undead or vermin). The mesmerist can also partially affect such a creature with his mind-affecting spells and abilities if it's under the effect of his hypnotic stare; it gains a +2 bonus on its saving throw (if any), and if affected, it still has a 50% chance each round of ignoring the effect. Ignoring the effect doesn't end the effect, but does allow the creature to act normally for that round.
Or take the Spirit Walker archetype which specifically deals with undead:
I was considering an improvised weapon Spell Warrior Skald (especially now that you can buy an adamantine chain from the Giant Hunter's Handbook).
His combat role would be debuffer/controller caster and his non-combat role would be face/skill monkey. In combat, I'll be looking to Hypnotic Stare my opponents, slip in an Intimidate and then hit them with a spell. Spirit Walker archetype lets me affect undead better and has the silly fun Continued Animation and Command Undead to help my frontliners (or give me a personal meatshield).
I'm uncomfortable dumping STR any lower than 8. Even though I'm a full caster, DEX is low because I'll be using Noble Scion of War (+CHA to Init) instead of Improved Initiative. WIS at 10 because I'll get the Mesmerist Towering Ego (+CHA to WILL) at L2.
Best option: Scale yourself as needed
You can build a combat beast or skill maestro, but you don't always have to use every ability for every encounter...and you don't always have to be the one who shines.
A combat beast can toggle off power attack, intentionally move so he only gets one attack instead of a full attack, set up flanks for others or aid another. If you hit THAT encounter and it's obvious it's go time, cut loose.
A skill maestro can, believe it or not, can aid someone else on their checks first. If it's plot important and they flub it, then you can step in, but you don't have to roll every time as the primary for every skill check you're eligible for.
I tend to do those options more with folks I don't know at Cons or at local tables with newer players. With my regular cohort or local tables with veteran powergamers, we enjoy cutting loose with our silliness.